date:20010816


-Caveat Lector-

Women Sue Planned Parenthood Over Abortion-Breast Cancer Link
Source:   Thomas More Law Center; August 15, 2001

San Diego, CA -- Three California women are suing Planned Parenthood to
force the nation's largest abortion business to reveal scientific evidence
of a substantial link between induced abortion and increased risk of
breast cancer, it was announced today by the Thomas More Law Center, a
national, not-for-profit public-interest law firm.

The women, Agnes Bernardo of Chula Vista, Pamela Colip of Loma Linda, and
Sandra Duffy-Hawkins of Sacramento, filed suit this morning in the San
Diego branch of the state superior court against Planned Parenthood of San
Diego and Riverside Counties, which operates an abortion facility in San
Diego, as well as Planned Parenthood Federation of America, headquartered
in New York City.  The plaintiffs are represented in the action by the Ann
Arbor-based Thomas More Law Center.  Stuart Fagan is serving as local
legal counsel.

Patrick Gillen, the Thomas More Law Center's lead attorney in the case,
explained that the complaint alleges that both Planned Parenthood and its
San Diego affiliate consistently mislead women about the safety of
abortion by obscuring evidence that induced abortion causes breast cancer.
The plaintiffs are seeking no monetary damages.  Rather, they want the
court to compel Planned Parenthood to inform women that abortion poses a
significant health risk in the form of increased vulnerability to breast
cancer, the leading cause of death among middle-age women in America.

Planned Parenthood advocates a woman's right to choose, Gillen said.
Our clients want all women to have free access to the truthful and
accurate information they need to make an informed choice.

The complaint filed today notes that Planned Parenthood touts the safety
of abortion both in its printed materials and on its websites, claiming
that childbirth carries seven times more risk than a surgical abortive
procedure. But the complaint points out that the American Medical
Association considers that any death subsequent to an abortion is related
to the procedure if it results from a direct complication of an abortion,
an indirect complication caused by the chain of events initiated by the
abortion, or the aggravation of a preexisting condition.

Planned Parenthood is trying to focus the attention of women only on
surgical errors and other immediate complications of the procedure itself,
which grossly understates the risk, Gillen said.  They dismiss the
research that shows a connection between abortion and breast cancer which
can increase the health risks associated with abortion by 30 percent.

Dr. Joel Brind, an endocrinologist at Baruch College of the City
University of New York, who has analyzed the research concerning an
abortion- breast cancer link, noted that a correlation between breast
cancer and induced abortion was observed as long ago as a 1957 study
conducted in Japan.  In the years since, a body of evidence has
accumulated from around the world, lending credence to the abortion-breast
cancer connection.

Out of 37 independently published studies, 28 show a causal connection,
Brind said.  And of those, 17 provide positive associations that reach
statistical significance suggesting a 95-percent certainty that this
association is not due to chance.  That is scientific evidence which
simply cannot be ignored.

Brind noted that research suggests the problem becomes more acute the
earlier in life a women has an abortion.  The younger a woman is at the
time of her first pregnancy, the greater the protection she will have if
she carries her baby to term, he said.  Correspondingly, the younger she
is when she has an abortion, the more prone to cancer she will likely be.

The three plaintiffs have brought their suit on behalf of the people of
California, as permitted by California law.

Agnes Bernardo explained that she and her co-plaintiffs feel a high degree
of personal motivation in this effort.  I have experienced abortion, and
I have been treated for a non- malignant tumor, Bernardo said.  I am
very concerned about developing breast cancer as are most women.  I
strongly believe women should receive complete information about the
studies linking induced abortion and breast cancer before making the
decision to have an abortion.

Pamela Colip noted that she had an abortion some 30 years ago, which
precipitated a premature birth in a subsequent pregnancy.

I was terribly disturbed when I learned about the abundance of scientific
medical evidence showing that women who have had an induced abortion have
a much greater risk of developing breast cancer, Colip said.  My
abortion was performed some thirty years ago and I remember it as though
it were yesterday.  Besides the emotional and physical pain, and the
tremendous health risks to future pregnancies, now there is the added risk
of this devastating cancer.  I believe that you can never have too much

[CTRL] Fwd: Freemasonry Watch continues their anti-masonic attack


Interesting Item:   Note they say here, and this of course is official,
that Bnai Brith is not a masonic order officially but they stole their
rituals etc.

And all the time I was seeing Italian?

Bnai Brith is a Mafia confraternity and they got into the business
sometime ago.using masonic rituals but the calendar code - shades of
Ezekial - they knocked off two Presidents of the United States of
America in the name of Zionism and led the trail with little red arrows
to the extreme right?

Hey someday we will find out what jewish mob in Columbus was doing with
all the neo nazi literature the printed out on a certain printing press?

Saba

Note remark towards end re Bnai Brith being Masonic.




http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/kkk.html

Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.


-Caveat Lector-

 but the claim that you made was that only jews are citizens.
 which is a lie.

The above is false. I never stated anywhere that only Jews are
citizens of Israel. What I did post was that only foreign born Jews
are automatically eligible to become Israeli citizens. It is almost
impossible for foreign non Jews to become Israelis (unless they
do a favor for the Mossad).

I also stated that the only non Jews in Israel are those (and their
offspring) who were left on the land after Israel was created.

I also stated that non Jews are abused and treated like third class
citizens in Israel.

I stated all the countries in the Middle East are theocratic racialist states,
including Israel. Let them all wallow in that unfortunate stew which will
never stop boiling until they are no longer poisoned by toxic religiousity
and ethnic hatred.

I don't care what your opinion is about the Middle East but don't lie about
what I stated. I also stated that I would not continue with this thread -
but I will not remain silent when lies or racism are attributed to me.
flw

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[CTRL] Fwd: Question 16.3: What is the connection between Judaism and Freemasonry?


Now here is another line on the Bnai Brith and Jewish Masons?

One God fits all, sound familiar?   Adolph Hitler took all religions and
secret societies and put them into one order - Hitler, was a Zionist for
he paved the way to the oil fields

Only problem here it is the people of the USA this middle America caught
in a trap of now Communist vs. Fascist when they, are one and the
same.Communists murdered more people than the Nazis - Hitler was a
piker compared to them.

55 million people died because of WWII?   Was it worth it?   For road to
a High Hill where God is alleged to have lived?   Like John F. Kennedy
climbing the high hill to the Lee Memorial saying I could stay here
forever and at the foot of the hill was Arlington Cemetary?

Symbolism is such a wonderful think and the sublime thinking into
pictures - get the picture?

We see what happened to the CIA when they let in bastards without proper
backgrounds?
For one cannot serve, two masters.

In American think about it - government is supposed to serve us, now we
them - for Whe People who cred this government and see how the smut
peddlars like Larry Flynt pushes and pushwill attempt to suppress
Freedom of Speech of the People - and the ADL would be the censors?
Get the picture -how much does Larry Flynt  CONTRIBUTE TO THIS front for
organized crime?   Someday he will find out who really ordered the hit
on  him   He is supposed to be deadcome to Columbus, Ohio and do a
little checking - find out who Ralph DeLeo was - the hit man given padon
by Govenor Richard Celeste, CFR Rhodes Scholar?   Turned loose a mass
murderer but only nailed on one murder of black doctor and hey they said
they were Masons?
Did they mean Bnai Brith?
Saba

Single Page
Top Document: soc.culture.jewish FAQ: Holocaust, Antisemitism,
Missionaries (9/12)
Previous Document: Question 16.2: Is there any truth to the myth of the
Jewish American Princess?
Next Document: Question 16.4: How do I counter antisemitic postings such
as the infamous Protocols?
Question 16.3: What is the connection between Judaism and Freemasonry?

Answer:

   The following is extracted from a paper by Paul M. Bessel of
Arlington VA that accompanied presentations in February 1989. The FAQ
would would like to thank David Kaufman ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
for
   providing this information; the full text of the presentation may be
obtained from him.

   Jews were actively involved in the beginnings of Freemasonry in
America. There is evidence they were among those who established Masonry
in seven of the original thirteen states: Rhode Island, New York,
Pennsylvania, Maryland, Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia.

   A Jewish Mason, Moses Michael Hays, helped introduce the Masonic
Scottish Rite in America. Paul Revere served under him as Deputy Grand
Master. There were several other Jews who held the masonic titles in the
late 1700's: Solomon Bush in Pennsylvania, Joseph Myers in Maryland and
later in South Carolina, and Abraham Forst of
   Philadelphia in Virginia in 1781. Another Jewish Grand Master was
Moses Seixas in Rhode Island from 1791 until 1800. There were many other
American Jewish Masons in early American history, including one in
George Washington's original Fredericksburg Lodge.

   Jewish Masons played an important part in the American Revolution,
with 24 of them serving as officers in George Washington's army. In
addition, several helped finance the American cause, including Haym
Salomon, a Philadelphia Jewish Mason who with others contributed and
raised money for the American war effort and loaned money to Jefferson,
Madison, Lee, and others for their personal expenses. Salomon was
imprisoned by the British and died in his 40's bankrupt and with
penniless heirs.

   There is evidence that Jews, including rabbis, continued to be
involved in the Masonic movement in the United States. There have been
at least 51 Jewish American Grand Masters. Today there are many Jews
active in Masonry in America and other countries. Israel has about 60
Masonic lodges with 3,000 members.

   Jews had also been involved to a small extent in the formation of
modern Freemasonry in the early 1700's in England. Until then Jews were
not permitted to participate in many of the ordinary activities of life.
Then the Enlightenment concept of the universality of all people brought
about a society where people's religious beliefs did not affect their
rights as citizens. Jews were gradually permitted to exercise the rights
of citizenship and to pursue their lives as they wished.

   Many Jews viewed joining Freemasonry as part of their emancipation
from the old legal and social exclusions. Modern Masonry was as much a
product of the Enlightenment as the emancipation of Jews. Many society
leaders were Freemasons and if Jews could join this fraternity that
would prove they were being accepted. They could also use the
   opportunities presented by their participation in a social
organization with Christians to prove

Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.


-Caveat Lector-

 
  I am not a racist.

 Yes you are. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;}
 J2

Just as convenient patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, a false
accusation of racism is the ulitmate refuge of the sanctimonious
hypocrite.
flw

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[CTRL] Question 16.5: Did the Jews kill Jesus?


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/09-Antisemitism/section-10.html

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.


-Caveat Lector-

  And in that dual identity lies the key to his anger--and to the rage of
  thousands of Israeli Arabs who have joined the street protests here
  in recent days.

 Life is tough when you're an enemy isn't it?
J2

BUT BUT BUT! J2, aren't these enemies one of your treasured
non Jewish Israeli citizens!!! Aren't these enemies merely unholding
the honored, world renowned reputation of Israel as a multicultural
secular society where everyone has a voice??
flw

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Nails and a cross killed Jesus?


-Caveat Lector-

How about the Italian Kiss of Death at the Last Supper.betray me
with a kiss Judas?

Remember Joe Valachi sang in October of 1964 for Vito Genevese had given
him the dreaded kiss of death in prison and out came stuff on the Mafia
for none dared call it murder inc. or communism or fascism?   For Vito
had gotten a Sun Medal from Mussolini - however, Vito and the Jewish Mob
were in love - and then we had Meyer Lansky (whose son got into West
Point) - who arranged the hit on JFK..

As the Eagle hastened to eat he was gunned down before he went to dinner
- on his way - and red roses littered the limosine, drenched in the
blood of JFK..how to make the white rose, red?

Saba

Symbolic murder of the Sun God or Son God and any Mason knows that on
November 22, the end of summer, the roses are dyiing.and the last
trip JFK made was to the Valley of Hamon Gog.

Have anyone ever read the Talmud?
Reads like Protocols to Zionist Murders.

Note the reference and humor re crucifixion of Christ?   Such humor
should not go by without due notice - Jesus was nailed like these
bastards nailed JFK - refer to Meyer Lansky]

Saba


Top Document: soc.culture.jewish FAQ:

[The below material is a Zionist Publication]

Holocaust, Antisemitism, Missionaries (9/12)
Previous Document: Question 16.4: How do I counter antisemitic postings
such as the infamous Protocols?

Next Document: Question 17.1: Are groups calling themselves Jews for
Jesus or Messianic Jews[sic] Jewish movements?


Question 16.5: Did the Jews kill Jesus?

ANSWER:

  The nails and the cross killed him. Look at the
coroner's report :-)

  Seriously, official Christian doctrine no longer holds
that Jews killed Jesus, although it once spread that the lie. Where did
the notion come from? In the New Testament, Jews are held in part
responsible for Jesus' death. Some of this position comes from the fact
that the disciples were Jewish, and it was a disciple, Judas, who
betrayed him to the Roman authorities. Some Christian sources depict a
  scene in which the Jews, given the choice of saving
Barrabas or Jesus from crucifixion, chose Barrabas. However, the text
doesn't tell us who :the Jews were; further, assuming this took place
(which is historically unlikely given the Roman's behavior), they all
couldn't have been gathered in one place. So, again, there is only
indirect
  responsibility. Finally, politically, we know that
some Jewish leaders (who were appointed by Roman Government) may have
seen Jesus as a political threat. However, the threat was more to the
Romans, and the Jewish leaders may have been pressured to silence him.
The final decision lay with the Romans, who alone used crucifixion as a
means of killing criminals and who alone had authority to impose the
death penalty.
  The New Testament accounts do not agree on the story
of who killed Jesus. The Encylopedia Judaica summarizes this as follows.
In the first three books, the Pharisees are not mentioned in connection
with the trial, and in John, only once (18:3). Only Mark (14:53-65;
followed by Matt. 26:59-68) records a formal, Jewish, night trial with
accusations, witnesses, and a sentence. Luke records a morning hearing
before the Sanhedrin (Luke 22:66-71) without formal sentencing, and John
has separate appearances before Annas (at night) and Caiaphas (in the
morning) who conducts an interrogation (18:12-
  24). In the entire book of Luke (not just in his
description of the Passion) there is no mention of the Sanhedrin's
verdict against Jesus, and John records nothing about an assembly of the
Sanhedrin before which Jesus appeared. Hence, it seems very probable
that no session of the Sanhedrin took place in the house of the high
priest where Jesus was in custody, and that the chief priests and
elders and scribes who assembled there were members of the Temple
committee (see also Luke 20:1): the elders were apparently the elders of
the Temple and the scribes were the Temple secretaries. The deliverance
of Jesus into the hands of the Romans was, it seems, the work of the
Sadducean high priests, who are often mentioned alone in the story. A
man suspected of being a messianic pretender could be delivered to the
Romans without a verdict of the Jewish high court. In addition, the high
priests were interested in getting rid of Jesus, who had spoken against
them and had predicted the destruction of the Temple. Mark offers some
clues to the historical situation. The public reason given in the
placard on the cross (Mark 15:26), recorded in all four Gospels, was
that Jesus claimed to be a king, which for the Romans was
  tantamount to sedition. Those crucified with Jesus are
called revolutionary bandits. Jesus teaching on the kingdom, his
association with marginal groups in his society, and his attacks on
abuses associated with the Temple made him suspect to both Romans and
the Jerusalem aristocracy. Though some interrogation may have taken
place before Jewish

Re: [CTRL] ADL Outraged at Red Cross Statement Calling Israeli Settlements War Crimes


-Caveat Lector-

Didn't a Jewish Order - Hadassah or something like that just take over
certain Red Cross authorites from the UN?

Maybe the time is ripe for the ADL does more harm than it does good.

This Jewish Defense League, a group of killers - why the ADL did not
even put them on the FBI Hit Hate List.

This Jewish Defense League is in disguise and are considered a very
dangerous organizationmaybe these are the friends to which Joshua2
referred when he said he had friends he wanted me to meet?

Hey Joshua - I got friends too buddy and my friends know more than your
friends and are loaded for bear, you little twerp.

Big mouth, big talk - Joshua2 sitting there behind his computer talking
war games?

Saba

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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Env: Have We A Prediction Here? YASS??

2001-08-16 Thread Fernando Sobral


Saludos,
Fer



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 WHAT DO DO WITH YASS?? and OSLO?
   
If we remove Arafat from the stage, 
Hamas's spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed
Yassin, God forbid, will replace him - 
so say Peres...

...no power in the world can smash to 
smithereens a vibrant national community 
that has rallied around national, economic 
and economic institutions The last time 
there was an attempt to capture Palestinian 
history was 20 years ago, when under the 
orders of Ariel Sharon, the Palestinian 
national archives were seized in West Beirut.

MID-EAST REALITIES © - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 8/16:
 Beneath that thick Israeli arrogance, many Israelis are really far more confused, 
and far more fearful, than they are going to admit.  Theirs' is a complicated 
psychology especially as the scars of the Holocaust remain deeply buried and only 
occasionally visible.  But because they the Israelis are so much more powerful at this 
particular time in history than those who oppose them, and because they have the 
world's only superpower on their side in a very firm embrace, also for very 
complicated reasons, Israeli domination of the Palestinians, and of the region, is 
likely to remain for the foreseeable future.
 Israel's leading newspaper, Ha'aretz, publishes an unusual combination of right 
as well as left-wing Israeli writers and intellectuals as these two recent articles 
make quite evident.  It seems much of the right-left debate in some ways now comes 
down to whether to continue deal with and relie upon Yasser.  And it appears the 
greatest incentive for some who argue doing so is that the alternative, with just a 
change of the last two letters, is someone many have long feared would be much worse.  
 Even so, the right may not be so sure any longer as the article by Israel Harel 
suggests.  And as for the left, well it wasn't that many years ago that Meron 
Benviniste was Deputy Mayor of Jeusalem, himself preaching the concept of 
segregation and helping Teddy Kollek and the Labor Party bring about the conditions 
that have led to the situation today. 



   ARAFAT IS DEADLIER THAN YASSIN
 By Israel Harel

The Oslo concept was (almost) perfect: Palestine Liberation Organization
leader Yasser Arafat would become responsible for such matters as health,
education, employment and transportation, and would simply cease to be a
terrorist. In general, the leaders of countries, especially if they are
Nobel Peace Prize winners to boot, are never terrorists.

However, the devil refused to take a holiday: A year after Arafat signed on
the dotted line on the White House lawn, solemnly pledging to never ever
resort to terrorism, buses began exploding in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Hadera
and Afula. Yet then prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and then foreign minister
Shimon Peres, despite the hundreds of killed and wounded Israelis, remained
hostages of the concept: Arafat, a subcontractor operating without the
benefit of either the Israeli High Court of Justice or B'Tselem (The Israeli
Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), would take
care of the terrorism (after all, he received thousands of rifles from Rabin
and Peres for that purpose - not for the purpose of killing Jewish settlers
on West Bank and Gaza Strip highways). Peres, who succeeded the assassinated
Yitzhak Rabin as prime minister, furiously rejected the solid evidence
supplied by Israeli military intelligence that Arafat had, in fact, given
the green light for the terrorist attacks on Israeli buses. The prime
minister claimed that the purported evidence was biased and subsequently
lost the general election.

Eight years later, and after 11 months of endless terrorism, Peres'
continued faith in Arafat is assuming clearly pathological proportions: The
id?e fixe that Arafat, even after all the abominable terror attacks, is
still a partner for peace

[CTRL] Fwd: THE LAST WORDS OF


Lee Harvey Oswald as written by this lady named Mae Brussells.

In Oswald's diary he left many cryptic messages (as did John Wilkes
Booth); however, the one interesting statement I found to be most
cryptic was many friends and neboribos which was interpreted to mean
neighbors by the fedsbut then King had not yet climbed Mt. Nebo on
way to promised land, where he was knocked off after getting view of the
promised land where God said no way he would enter same.

So this is interesting item..but also this reference twice to June
and new shoes?   Maybe shoes of Peace and this one little girls name -
he said Rachel, when her name was alleged to be Audrey as I recall.

But the remark be sure to buy June, new shoes as if he gave a damn about
his kids.

What is that in the bible - your life for mine?  JFK made such a remark
prior to his death - how he could see how someone could get in a tall
building and fire on him - but he would pay with his life, for taking
his - straight out of Kings I?

Mae would have had fun with my bible calendar codeSybil Leek sure
did  for she concluded what better book.

Saba

THE LAST WORDS OF
LEE HARVEY OSWALD
Compilation by Mae Brussell
Did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone in shooting Pres. John F. Kennedy on
Nov. 22, 1963, or did he conspire with others? Was he serving as an
agent of Cuba's Fidel Castro, himself the target of American assassins?
Or in squeezing the trigger of his carbine was he undertaking some super
dirty trick for a CIA anxious to rid itself of a president whose faith
in the company had evaporated in the wake of the Bay of Pigs fiasco?
Or was he representing a group of Cuban exiles, the Teamsters Union, the
Mafia? Indeed, was it Lee Harvey Oswald at all who killed JFK? Or was
there a double impersonating Oswald? These questions continue to nag
many people more than a decade and a half after that dreadful day in
Dallas, in spite of the 26 volumes of hearings and exhibits served up by
the Warren Commission, the congressional investigations, the release of
heretofore classified FBI documents.
Almost everyone, it seems, has been heard from on the Kennedy
assassination and on Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt or innocence, except one
person -- Lee Harvey Oswald himself. From the time of Oswald's arrest to
his own assassination at the hands of Jack Ruby, no formal transcript or
record was kept of statements made by the alleged killer. It was said
that no tape recordings were made of Oswald's remarks, and many notes
taken of his statements were destroyed.
Determined to learn Oswald's last words, his only testimony, The
People's Almanac assigned one of the leading authorities on the Kennedy
assassination, Mae Brussell, to compile every known statement or remark
made by Oswald between his arrest and death. The quotes, edited for
space and clarity, are based on the recollections of a variety of
witnesses present at different times and are not verbatim transcripts.
After 14 years of research on the JFK assassination, Mae Brussell
concludes, I am of the opinion that Lee Harvey Oswald was telling the
truth about his role in the assassination during these interrogations.
12:30 P.M., CST, NOV. 22, 1963 Pres. John F. Kennedy Assassinated
12:33 P.M.
Lee Harvey Oswald left work, entered a bus, and said, Transfer,
please.
12:40 - 12:45 P.M.
Oswald got off the bus, entered a cab, and said, May I have this cab?
A woman approached, wanting a cab, and Oswald said, I will let you have
this one. . . . 500 North Beckley Street [instructions to William
Whaley, driver of another cab]. . . . This will be fine. Oswald
departed cab and walked a few blocks.
1:15 P.M. Officer J. D. Tippit Murdered
1:45 P.M. Arrest at the Texas Theater
This is it or Well, it's all over now. Oswald arrested. (Patrolman
M. N. McDonald heard these remarks. Other officers who were at the scene
did not hear them.) I don't know why you are treating me like this. The
only thing I have done is carry a pistol into a movie. . . . I don't see
why you handcuffed me. . . . Why should I hide my face? I haven't done
anything to be ashamed of. . . . I want a lawyer. . . . I am not
resisting arrest. . . . I didn't kill anybody. . . . I haven't shot
anybody. . . . I protest this police brutality. . . . I fought back
there, but I know I wasn't supposed to be carrying a gun. . . . What is
this all about?
2:00 - 2:15 P.M. Drive to Police Department
What is this all about? . . . I know my rights. . . . A police officer
has been killed? . . . I hear they burn for murder. Well, they say it
just takes a second to die. . . . All I did was carry a gun. . . . No,
Hidell is not my real name. . . . I have been in the Marine Corps, have
a dishonorable discharge, and went to Russia. . . . I had some trouble
with police in New Orleans for passing out pro-Castro literature. . . .
Why are you treating me this way? . . . I am not being handled right. .
. . I demand my rights.
2:15 P.M. Taken into Police Department. 2:15 - 2:20 P.M.
Talked to by

[CTRL] ISRAELI DIVESTMENT: UC Sudent Movement Underway (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

ISRAELI DIVESTMENT: UC Sudent
Movement Underway

by
Camille T. Taiara
San Francisco Bay Guardian

UC Berkeley students have launched an Israel
divestment campaign targeting the very
institution that holds the purse strings to
their education: the UC Regents. The people
who run our universities are not just
tacitly supporting but are actually
benefiting from the exploitation of
Palestinians, said Snehal Shigavi, a UC
Berkeley graduate student. What UC Berkeley
students demand is that the school system
pull shares from companies that either have
branches or subsidiaries in
Israel or do $5 million per year or more in
business there. So far 13 such companies
have been identified, including General
Electric, Raytheon, Cisco Systems,
Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft, Texas
Instruments, and AOL Time Warner.
Investments in these firms represent at
least 11 percent of the UC system's $59
billion investment profile, totaling $6.2
billion - or $1.7 billion more than all
direct US federal aid to Israel combined . . .
Student activists, who have formed Students
for Justice in Palestine, re-created some of
[Palestinian] conditions when they set up a
mock checkpoint at UC Berkeley's Sather Gate
the day Sharon was elected prime minister . .
. SJP carried out another action on campus
March 6, this time setting up a mock refugee
camp. It also began sending delegations to
Davis, Santa Barbara, and Los Angeles to
train other UC students to set up similar
movements. More delegations are planned for
the University of Massachusetts at Amherst,
the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor,
Columbia University, and possibly Harvard
University.
***
Conference - October 12-14, 2001

Holding the University Accountable:
Divesting from Israeli Apartheid

Sponsored by Students for Justice in Palestine
University of California - Berkeley

More information at:
http://www.aztlan.net/divesture.htm
.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] The Hate Crimes You Don't Hear About


-Caveat Lector-

Subject: The Hate Crimes You Don't Hear About.htm
http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/hatecrimes.html
--
---
 © 2001 by Russ
Kick

The Hate Crimes You Don't Hear About - by Russ Kick


   Cleveland, Ohio. A white man on a moped accidentally bumped into a
truck being driven by a black man. He fell over but was not injured.
A crowd of 40 white people pulled the black driver from the truck and
brutally beat him. One of them climbed in the truck and ran over the
driver, killing him. The crowd cheered.

   Jacksonville, Florida. A group of four to six white men agreed
that they would brutalize the next black person they saw walking down
the street. That person turned out to be a mentally disabled 50-year-
old, whom they beat and stomped into unconsciousness. He later died
of his injuries.

   Are you surprised that you've never heard of these sickening
murders based on racial hatred? You didn't see saturation coverage on
the news. You didn't hear politicians decrying racism. You didn't see
a livid Jesse Jackson on CNN. Why? Because these acts of brutality
didn't happen exactly as I described above. Oh, they happened, all
right. The only thing is, the races of the attackers and victims were
reversed. That is, a white man was beaten and then crushed by a mob
of 40 black people who were furious that a black man bumped into his
truck.¹ In Jacksonville, it was a gang of black men who stomped a
mentally-disabled man to death solely because he was white.²

   If these acts of savagery had indeed happened as I originally
described them above, you would have heard about them. But because
they were perpetrated by blacks against whites  even though they
were based completely on racial hatred  the national media,
politicians, and civil rights leaders ignored them. As opposed to the
deaths of Yusef Hawkins and James Byrd, these deaths are only
reported in the local media. And even then, the races of the people
involved are often not mentioned.

   Below are some more hate crimes that have been ignored because
they happened the wrong way (i.e., they were black-on-white instead
of white-on-black).

Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Upset about a racial name-calling that occurred
earlier that night, several black men savagely beat a random white
man who had had nothing to do with the incident. He slipped away from
his attackers, but they forced him to swim into a lake to escape. He
drowned. The three men were sentenced to less than a year in jail.3

Massachusetts. Four black men decided to murder the next white person
they saw. That unlucky soul was a college student from Boston, whom
the men stabbed to death.4

Indiana. A black man was arrested for killing seven white people with
a shotgun. He explained that he murdered his victims due to his deep-
rooted hatred of white people.5

Miami, Florida. The leader of a black supremacist sect (i.e.,
the Yaweh ben Yaweh cult) was convicted of the murders of several
white people. He ordered his followers to kill any and all white
devils. They killed at least seven white people, bringing back body
parts to their leader.6

North Carolina. Seven black men kidnapped a white woman, raped her,
put her in a tub of bleach, shot her five times, and dumped her body.
The murderers said they did this for racial reasons.7

North Carolina. Four black teenagers lured a white, ten-year-old girl
into an empty house. There, they sodomized her, strangled her with a
cable wire, and beat her to death with a board. In the past few
weeks, the trials in the Tiffany Long case have received extensive
coverage in the North Carolina press. But with two of the three
defendants already sentenced to lifelong prison terms, and the third
now standing trial, the national media have all but ignored the
story. Only the Associated Press has reported on the trials, in a
single, cursory piece. The AP, of course, failed to mention the race
of the people involved  an oversight it seldom if ever committed in
the case of Amadou Diallo.8

Boulder, Colorado. After discovering that one of their members had
never had sex with a white woman, an Asian gang went looking for one.
When they found a white University of Colorado student, the six men
gang raped her in their minivan for two hours.

   At their trial, Detectives described the woman's night of terror,
including repeated threats to kill her.

   The woman leaped out of the minivan after one of the men raped
her. Naked, she sprinted across Lefthand Canyon Road before Steve
Yang tackled her, authorities said.

   `They were all screaming at her, calling her names and hitting
her,' Detective Jane Harmer testified.

   Yang put her in a headlock and dragged her back into the van,
where she was raped repeatedly, Harmer said.

   `It was a free-for-all,' Harmer testified.

   One man threatened to `cut and burn her,' and another put a gun
barrel to the back of her head when they released her,

[CTRL] Fwd: Hiding Human Radiation Experiments in Plain Sight






http://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/97-10%20OCT/hiddeenin.html

HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT
by Richard Korn, Ph.D., Professor of Criminal Justice

 For over twenty years (1974-1994) the U.S. Government conducted a wide
range of secret experiments on unwitting Ameri-can citizens, exploring the
hazards posed by nuclear radiation. The participating medical doctors,
scientists, and researchers managed to keep their secrets from the American
people. The feat is virtually without rival except in fiction. Edgar Allan
Poe's story The Purloined Letter describes how a master spy succeeds in
hiding a monumentally incriminating document from the prying eyes of the
French Surete. He hides it by leaving it in plain sight on top of a pile of
papers on his desk.

In 1996 the government published a 620-page book titled The Human Radiation
Experiments: Final Report of the President's Advisory Committee.

Here is an example of its style and content:

The Advisory Committee's charter identified thirteen releases: one related
to the testing of intelligence equipment (the Green Run), eight
radiological warfare tests, and four releases of radioactive lanthulam
(Rala) to test the mechanism of the atomic bomb. The Advisory Committee
received information on more than sixty radiological warfare releases that
took place in the period 1944-1961. We identified farther intentional
releases of a kind that were not described in the charter. These included
the releases of radiation to study its environmental pathways and the
release of radiation in connection with outdoor tests related to the
development of nuclear reactors, as well as to the development of
nuclear-powered rockets and airplanes.

Most releases took place in and around three sites that constitute the
nation's weapons complex, notably Oak Ridge, Tennessee; Hanford, Washington;
Los Alamos, New Mexico and the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.
Releases related to radiological warfare tests took place primarily at the
Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. Radioactive material was also released into
the environment for research purposes at other locations; for example,
fallout from the Nevada Test Site was inserted in the tundra of Alaska.

Suppose that you were the government. And suppose you sensed a political
necessity requiring you to make the facts public? How would you go about it?
Who would you choose to write it? And in what venue would you publish it?

You would choose an unimpeachable committee to publish the results of an
impeccably objective and exhaustive investigation. You would present it in a
report so densely documented and so numbingly written that no one but an
obsessive-compulsive could get through it. What you would have accomplished
is analagous to what workers do when they go on strike by working to rule.
You would have avoided your duty by exhaustively carrying it out.

What would happen then? Virtually nothing. Nothing until a nit-picking
reporter pieced together the human implications of the horror by
interviewing some of the victims, and then publishing her blockbusting
newspaper series. Only then did a courageous Secretary of the Department of
Energy threaten to blow the whistle on the whole twenty years of dirty-work.
Appointment of the President's Advisory Committee followed. But even that
initiative was smothered by the eventual result. Since publication of the
Report, the government has issued a bulletin promising to set things right.
Things have still not been set right. (Please see adendum).

What have we learned? Other than yet another lesson about the necessity of a
free press, we have not learned very much-except, perhaps a little more
about the architectonics of cover-up. The following outlines a step-by-step
sequence of official reactions to allegations of official malfeasance.

·It never happened.

·It happened-but it wasn't us who did it.

·We did it-because we had to do it. The country needed it.

·We would have told you about it because we believe that governments should
be open.

·Unfortunately, we had to keep it secret, because, if we published it, the
enemy could figure out our intelligence circuits. (Letting you know also
lets them know.)

·In any event, we will never do it again.

·We will never do it again because we have now created safeguards against
that kind of thing.

·But if we ever have to do it again, we will tell you.

·If we do not tell you at once, we will tell you as soon as we can.

·And if we can't tell you as soon as we can, 

Addendum
Assertions of Principle as a Substitute for Applying Principle in PracticE

One of the stigmata of corrupt practices-by whole governments or their
smallest units-is the intensity and frequency of statements defending
honesty and decency and opposing all forms of double dealing. This strategy
enables them to defend in rhetoric the policies which their officers are
routinely violating in practice.

Poisoning without Poisoners or Victims

A case in point is provided by the exhaustive

[CTRL] The (Unintended) Ignorance of David Icke

2001-08-16 Thread Dale Stonehouse


-Caveat Lector-

In his latest book, Children of the Matrix, David Icke weaves together
another confusing chain of mysterious connections that prove the human
race is captive to a race of reptilian controllers who have us confined
dimensionally on Prison Planet Earth.

From his perspective on the Isle of Wight, Icke claims to understand the
rest of the world, never realizing how little he actually knows. He is
especially ignorant of American customs and culture and too quick to ascribe
evil intent to every action of every U.S. politician in any position of
power. Truth matters little to Icke; perceived connections are everything.

Among the biggest villains of the plot are U.S. Presidents George H.W. Bush
and his son, current President George W. Bush. Among the proof Icke uses in
his new book are 2 photos (actually video captures) of the younger Bush
giving the sign of Satan, or the goat, or whatever Icke is calling it these
days.

What Icke seems to miss (he also shows Bill Clinton giving the same salute)
is that more mundane and innocent motivations may be behind the evil
gestures.

From 1995-2001, W Bush was governor of Texas. For those unaware, Texas
places its highest priority on American football, rightly or wrongly. The
capital of Texas is Austin, also home of the University of Texas and its
Longhorn football team. Nothing is more important to most Texans than the
Longhorns.

And one of the ways they signal their loyalty to UT football is as follows:

They wave with the hook-em horns sign, with the two middle fingers held
down by the thumb while the first and last fingers are extended.

This is the wave Bush is shown using in Icke's book; the possibility the
same wave that is used by masons or satanists can also be used in a more
innocent way is seemingly lost to Icke.

Unfortunately, many readers overwhelmed by the quantity of Icke's litany of
obscure connections among the New World Order plotters may swallow his
allegations in toto.

Icke's mistakes and acceptance of anything that agrees with his viewpoint
regardless of credibility (or possibility!) detract from his otherwise
impressive and tireless work to expose the world's controllers.

Icke accuses others of being manipulated by evil reptilians to deceive
humanity; but if he is deceptive by omission or ignorance, whose deception
is more harmful?

And that may be the lesson to be taken from the work of David Icke.
Deception is everywhere; only personal discernment can lead the way to
truth, whatever it may be.

Dale Stonehouse
16 August 2001

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Home Guard


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGAMZCKCAQC.html

}}Begin
Aug 12, 2001
Pentagon May Expand CIA's Domestic Role
By GEORGE CORYELL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jane's Defence Weekly reports that an intelligence review panel is exploring
possible new roles for the CIA and
other spy agencies in the domestic
arena to protect the United States from terrorist attacks.
U.S. intelligence agencies normally are prevented from operating within the
continental United States, but the CIA
can, under certain circumstances,
collect intelligence information on U.S. citizens if they are suspected of
being
involved in espionage or terrorist activities. The U.S. government has
been trying to develop a large-scale emergency
plan to deal with any
biological, chemical or nuclear attack on U.S. soil.

End{{

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Home Gore(d)


-Caveat Lector-

From


This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?17728

Tuesday, December 5, 2000
ELECTION 2000, Day 29
Why Gore lost Tennessee
Tennessee cops, media credit Al's defeat in home state to WND investigative
series
By Charles C. Thompson II and Tony Hays
© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com
SAVANNAH, Tenn. -- Vice President Al Gore is tortured by the fact
that he lost Tennessee, say friends. After all, had he won his home
state -- the state he represented all his years in Congress -- he would
now be President-elect Gore, with or without Florida.



I know that's one thing bothering him the most, that he lost
Tennessee, said close friend Steve Armistead, who spent his summers
with Gore while growing up in Tennessee, according to a
 New York
Times report. The other night he asked me, 'What happened in
Tennessee?'

Although the media have accurately reported that Tennessee's 11 electoral
votes would have put Gore at 271 and thereby made him the next president
of the United States, most have missed the reason Gore suffered his first-
ever defeat in Tennessee.

Indeed, 24 years ago in his first run for Congress, Gore won an overwhelming
94 percent of the vote. His dominance was such that he ran unopposed for
his next two House terms. And when he ran for his second term in the
Senate a decade ago, Gore became the first statewide candidate in
Tennessee's history to take all 95 counties.

So why did Gore lose Tennessee on Nov. 7 -- the first time a presidential candidate 
has failed to win his own state since George McGovern lost his native South Dakota in 
1972?

The usual press analysis is that Tennessee's demographics have changed, sending the 
once-Democratic stronghold tipping to the Republican Party.  Sen. Fred Thompson and 
Gov. Don Sundquist have echoed this idea, while Rep.
Bill Jenkins, from historically Republican upper east Tennessee, noted in an 
Associated Press report that Tennessee didn't leave Gore. Gore left Tennessee. He 
pointed to Gore's changing stance on gun control and abortio
n as bellwethers.

Yet, while these issues may have played a role, the answer is far more fundamental 
than that.

It was the character issue, says popular Nashville radio talk host Phil Valentine.  
Thanks to talk radio and sources like WorldNetDaily getting out the truth, I believe 
it tipped the state to Bush.

Valentine initially broke a
 story on Gore's ties to alleged
criminal figures in Wilson County, Tenn., next door to Gore's home county.  Shortly 
after that, WorldNetDaily ran a series of investigative reports detailing Gore's 
involvement in and interference with criminal investigat
ions linked to his uncle,
 retired judge Whit LaFon and top campaign fundraisers like
 Clark Jones, of Savannah, Tenn.  According to Valentine, it was stories like those 
that spelled Gore's defeat.

They [the stories] stayed under the radar nationally, he said, but around here they 
were on everyone's lips.

Charlotte Alexander, editor of the Decatur County Chronicle in Parsons, Tenn., agrees.

Absolutely, it was the integrity issue, she affirms.  Alexander's paper ran the 
WorldNetDaily series of articles profiling Gore's seamy political dealings in 
Tennessee.

We sold out of every edition that carried those stories.  People literally drove in 
from hundreds of miles away to buy 25, 50, 100 copies, whatever they could afford, to 
take back with them, she said. We had well-known
 Democrats come in here after reading those stories and say out loud that they 
couldn't be associated with somebody that behaved as Gore had.  Alexander even had 
additional copies printed, but the public soon gobbled tho
se up as well.

Those [WorldNetDaily] stories coming out about Gore involving himself in criminal 
investigations were just too much, says former Tennessee Bureau of Investigation 
agent Milton Bowling.  I'm a Democrat, but I couldn't g
et past that.  I know plenty of people who felt the same way.  It was never a matter 
of party in Tennessee; it was always about character and integrity.  Gore flunked that 
test.

The WND articles clearly had a major impact in Tennessee's legal community, especially 
those reports dealing with Gore's ties to Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Director 
Larry Wallace. According to former TBI director a
nd now District Attorney General John Carney, at a recent meeting of the Tennessee 
District Attorney Generals Conference, the articles were widely discussed, yet only 
one DAG took issue with them, and that was longtime Wa
llace friend and Gore supporter Gus Radford of the 24th Judicial District.

Gus was the only one trying to undermine them [the WND articles], said Carney.  
Carney is now looking beyond the election toward bringing reform to the Tennessee law 
enforcement community after eight long years of Clint
on-Gore influence.  Something needed to be done, Carney said flatly.

[CTRL] Nanny NEATO Nuts (Numb)


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.serbianna.com/news/08_15/17.shtml

}}Begin
ANALYSIS-Pitfalls loom for NATO mission in Macedonia
By Mark Heinrich

SKOPJE, Aug 15 (Reuters) - Renegade armed bands, weapons hidden in
remote highlands, clashing expectations of peace terms and a local culture
of vendetta loom as pitfalls in NATO's mission to disarm Albanian guerrillas
in Macedonia.
There are two sobering precedents for NATO strategists.
When NATO combat troops swept into Bosnia in 1996 and Kosovo in 1999
to enforce accords ending two Balkan wars, they failed to prevent rampant
murder, arson and mass flights of refugees from armed men bent on ethnic
cleansing, profit or both.
Peace has held in Bosnia and Kosovo, but it has been flawed and costly. It
has entailed the indefinite presence of tens of thousands of NATO troops, de
facto partition into mafia-ridden mono-ethnic entities, and drip-feed
dependence on Western aid.
Macedonia may have escaped a fifth Balkan war in a decade when the
government signed a Western-mediated accord on Monday to end
discrimination against minority Albanians, followed a day later by a guerrilla
commitment to disarm.
But NATO, wary of bogging down in another Balkan twilight zone of half-
hearted peace, intends to have 3,500 soldiers amass guerrilla arms and
ammunition within 30 days, then leave with their haul which is to be
destroyed abroad.
The NATO contingent will be equipped with only light arms to be used only in
self-defence. Weapons are to be surrendered voluntarily -- the so-called
National Liberation Army (NLA) guerrillas are not to be forcibly disarmed.
As a result, Operation Essential Harvest, as NATO's nascent mandate has
been rousingly christened, may not reap much if NATO peacekeepers'
experience in Kosovo is anything to go by.
ARMS CACHES
In 1999, the guerrilla Kosovo Liberation Army of Kosovo's majority Albanians
handed in more than 10,000 weapons, 5.5 million rounds of ammunition and
27,000 grenades and formally disbanded by agreement with the NATO-led
KFOR force.
But many of the arms turned in were of inferior quality and KFOR has
uncovered scores of higher-grade weapons caches ever since. There was
little secret that further KLA firepower was hidden in the mountains of lawless
northern Albania.
Despite KFOR's search-and-seizure powers, radical ex-KLA guerrillas have
staged hundreds of armed attacks on civilian Serbs in Kosovo, driving them
into NATO-guarded ghettos. The great majority, about 150,000, fled to other
parts of Yugoslavia.
Last February, Albanian militants blew up a passing bus full of Serb civilians
with a remote-controlled bomb, killing 10.
In Bosnia, 60,000 combat-trained peacekeepers fulfilled an extra-territorial
mandate to separate ethnic armies and impose security by controlling
everything from roads to air space.
But under the nose of the vaunted Implementation Force (IFOR), tens of
thousands of Serbs fled or were stampeded out of Sarajevo's suburbs by
armed Muslim avengers who looted, torched and occupied the abandoned
property.
In Bosnia and Kosovo, NATO was supposed to make it safe for refugees to
go home in areas where they are now a minority. Few have dared to return
for fear of attack, leaving history's most potent security bloc the custodian of
ethnically cleansed fiefs.
In Macedonia, sceptics led by the government believe the NLA will be free to
bury prized weapons in the mountain wilderness of the north and across the
border in Kosovo because NATO, as in the KLA's case, does not know how
big the guerrilla arsenal is.
SMUGGLING
Rampant smuggling from Kosovo and Albania could swell it even after formal
disarmament, as KFOR lacks the manpower or willingness to risk casualties
to seal every last supply path.
The underlying premise of NATO's mission, which is coupled with an
amnesty for rebels and constitutional amendments to improve Albanian
minority rights, is to help prevent a return to fighting and a possible fifth
Balkan war.
But that requires reconciliation, Western analysts say.
The real concern, a British defence official said, is that the parties in
Maceonida have different expectations from the NATO force.
Although the NLA signed an accord with NATO to disarm and disband with
its men to be reintegrated in society, many guerrillas seek Albanian
autonomy in the long term and would prefer NATO to act as a buffer force for
terrain they hold.
The largely pro-government media's expectations of the NATO mission
contain no niceties like reintegration of rebels.
By the end of October, the army and police will enter the occupied regions,
blared Utrinski Vesnik in a headline on Wednesday after the NLA's
disarmament accord.
NATO troops coming to Macedonia may also be at risk from deep-seated
anti-Western bitterness among the majority Slavs who are convinced the
major powers are pro-Albanian.
Macedonians recall how their poor state of just two million people bowed to
Western pleas to take in 230,000 Albanian war refugees from Kosovo in
1999,

Re: [CTRL] Home Gore(d)


-Caveat Lector-

Why Gore lost Tennessee?   Old saying when you sleep with dogs, you get
fleas..no offense to the dogs, but the story of his own little pet
lying on the steps of his palatial palace, wounded, unattended, and
nearly dying from these unattended wouds - this above all showed the
character of the man.

Then we had the case of Gore rushing into an audience (all was planned
of course) into the arms of a little lesbian who was crying for at
another school she had been mistreated - ignorning he 300 other kids
completely.

We had the matter of Littleton and his black trench coat he wore out of
respect to whom?

Then we had his attempt of tryin to be sexy with too tight pants whereby
he looked like a stufed overdone turkey..

And then we had the beginning of his campaign, the Clinton stance bur
worse, his half witted wife getting on TV talk show and saying - Oh Al,
he is really sexy.so Quasimoto the Bellringer had no such PR
machine going, and did not wear tight pants, but had more personality,
than Al Gore.

Then we had the matter of his daughter married to member of the Jacob
Schiff family - the head guy or one in this Illuminati thing?   Now
Schiff has dual personality too - for one man's meat, is still another
man's poison.

How did Gore get Gore(d)?

Clinton - he tried to be like Clinton only he did not realize that most
women are really repusled by the likes of a Clinton, unless they like
being beaten up, raped, and treated like a prostitute.for the man
surely treated any lady like a tramp, only little Monica had been paid
big bucks no doubt, to conduct herself in such a manner - for such a
lovely fat slob of a little girl.

So Gore played Romeo and Tipper played Juliet but somehow the charm of
this story and being likened to Gore escapes me.maybe because he is
nothing more than a big phoney would be Superman and now we know why the
creator of Superman had him knocked off and Cristopher Reeves, virtually
self destructed.

Gore - for President?   Sleeping with dogs he got fleas?   Hey, he got
mange.

Saba

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: will it not be poetic justice when this happens to the farmers in the napa valley






THURSDAY AUGUST 16 2001

Mugabe troops will carve up white farms
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001283765,00.html
FROM MICHAEL HARTNACK IN HARARE

IN A further move towards militarising Zimbabwean society, President Mugabe
plans to deploy soldiers to subdivide 5,000 white-owned farms by next
April's elections.
Using soldiers instead of land inspectors and agricultural experts would
help to create a general mood and psychology of obedience, Joseph Made,
the Agriculture Minister, said.

Despite attempts to ethnically cleanse whites, one farmer said that they
would go back to the land to try again. At the weekend a mob broke into the
homestead in the Chinhoyi area where the farmer's parents-in-law, aged 81
and 77, have lived for more than 50 years and stripped it bare.

You are just so, so vulnerable and you feel so, so helpless, he said. If
you retaliate in any kind of way, you are in for the high jump - yet the
police just sit and watch them loot all this stolen stuff on to vehicles.
But what has happened is not going to make the farming community give up, so
you wonder what is next.

A neighbour, Briget, said: We won't go back - there is absolutely nothing
left. They have even taken the roof off the house. She and her husband had
bought their farm only two years ago, when the Lands Ministry issued a
certificate saying that the farm would not be required for resettlement for
at least five years.

Legal sources believe that the week-long spree of farmhouse trashing around
Chinhoyi was aimed at breaking the white Zimbabwean farming community's will
to resist, thus speeding up the takeover of properties in time for the
campaign by Mr Mugabe for re-election. If all 5,327 designated farmers
continue to contest designation, it could take the administrative court
several years merely to rubber-stamp the seizures.

Police have been deeply implicated in recent terror campaigns against white
farmers, when officers said they had orders not to intervene.

Farming sources said that using soldiers to divide plots spells the end of
any serious attempt to put ecologically sound and sustainable smallholdings
in place of present large-scale commercial agriculture.

Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change,
said that Mr Mugabe wanted to hasten land reallocation to give recipients a
stake in continuing the ruling Zanu (PF) party's 22-year rule.

Use of soldiers in the farm takeover plan dovetails with the President's
promises of plots to all 60,000 of his uniformed services and the recent
posting of retired military and secret police personnel to key positions in
virtually every department of state.

The Consumer Council of Zimbabwe reported yesterday that 74 per cent of the
country's 13 million people cannot afford basic necessities. The currency is
worth 2 per cent of its value at 1980.

[CTRL] Fwd: Masonic Ritual Combat






The Gulf War As A Mental Disorder.htm

www.psychohistory.com


Since it is the task of a leader to provide enemies when required, Bush was
not about to be caught short when his nation asked him to find an enemy.
Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, had long been a U.S. satrap. Bush, as Vice
President, had personally contacted Saddam in 1986 in a covert mission to
get him to escalate the air war with Iran.34 America had been secretly and
illegally building up Iraq's military forces, including their nuclear
weapons program, for over a decade, including arranging billion-dollar loan
guarantees that the U.S. would end up paying off.35 Secret arms transfers
to Iraq, money sent to Iraq via Italian banks, official approval of U.S.
exports of military equipment, even shipment of weapons from our NATO
stockpiles in Germany were all part of the clandestine buildup, all illegal
and all covered up by the Reagan administration.36 Iraq, for its part, felt
beholden to the U.S. As Kenneth Timmerman put it in his definitive book, The
Death Lobby: How the West Armed Iraq,

The arming of Iraq was a 15-year love affair [for America]. Saddam Hussein
was our creation, our monster. We built him up and then tried to take him
down.37

Saddam Hussein, like so many dictators, had an unbelievably traumatic
childhood.38 His mother tried to abort him by hitting her abdomen with her
fists and cutting herself with a kitchen knife, yelling, In my belly I'm
carrying a Satan! She gave the infant Saddam away to his uncle, a violent
man who beat the boy regularly, calling him a son of a cur and training
him to use a gun and steal sheep. Saddam committed his first homicide at
eleven. His political career centered on the murder of his fellow
countrymen, and he particularly enjoyed watching the torture and execution
of officers who had fought with him. Saddam would obviously make an ideal
enemy to whom America could delegate the task of starting a new war so that
we could remain guiltless.

In early 1990, before the Gulf crisis began, the U.S. military unexpectedly
undertook four war games that rehearsed fighting Iraq, premised on their
invasion of Kuwait.39 At the same time, Kuwait's rulers suddenly adopted a
provocative stance toward Iraq, refusing to discuss outstanding issues over
disputed lands and loans, an attitude that even Jordan's King Hussein called
puzzling40 and regarding which one Middle East expert stated that if the
Americans had not pushed, the royal family [of Kuwait] would have never
taken the steps that it did to provoke Saddam.41 In addition, the U. S.
provided $3 billion in agricultural loans to Saddam, which he promptly
used for military equipment.

A special investigative report, based on leaked documents, published by the
London Observer and ignored by the rest of the world press, revealed that
early in 1990 Bush sent a secret envoy to meet with one of Hussein's top
officials. According to a summary of this report,42 the envoy told the
dictator's confidant 'that Iraq should engineer higher oil prices to get it
out of its dire economic fix'...Hussein took the envoy's advice, and moved
his troops to the border of Kuwait...'The evidence suggest that U.S.
complicity with Saddam went far beyond miscalculation of the Iraqi leader's
intentions [and included] active U.S. support for the Iraqi President' in
his military threat toward Kuwait. So overwhelming was the evidence that the
U.S. financed, provided equipment for and encouraged Saddam's aggressive
military venture that Al Gore, when running for Vice President, said, Bush
wants the American people to see him as the hero who put out a raging fire.
But new evidence now shows that he is the one who set the fire. He not only
struck the match, he poured gasoline on the flames.43

Saddam reacted predictably to Bush's encouragement, publicly threatened to
use force against Kuwait and moved his troops to the border. To be certain
he had U.S. backing for the invasion, he then summoned U.S. Ambassador April
Glaspie to his office and asked her what Washington's position was on his
dispute with Kuwait. Glaspie, acting on Bush's cable of the previous day,
gave Saddam the barely disguised go-ahead by saying that the President had
instructed her to broaden and deepen our relations with Iraq and to deliver
America's warm sympathy with his problems. She then stated, We have no
opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with
Kuwait[Secretary of State] James Baker has directed our official
spokesmen to emphasize this instruction.44 Senior Pentagon officials had
feared Bush's cabled instructions would send a signal that it was all right
with the U.S. if Iraq invaded Kuwait.45 This stinks, one said about the
cable. But Bush had prevented a Pentagon effort to draft a sterner message
that might have shown American opposition to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

Just in case there was any question about the American signal to Hussein, on
July 31, after Iraqi forces had moved fuel

[CTRL] Fwd: PEPIS #32 - Sole Pre-Bilderberg Source Closed Down






1. Bilderberg Steering Committee Member Clarke To Lead UK Conservative Party?
2. World's Only Bilderberg Pre-Conference Source Dries Up - Spotlight
Newspaper Closes
3. Spotlight Busts Bilderbergers As They Meet On Guarded Island - Final
Spotlight Report



//
Power Elite Public Information Service  -
http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm#pepis  -  to join/leave list.
Please put in a link to http://www.bilderberg.org - now funded for another
2 years.
PLEASE FORWARD TO NEWSGROUPS AND ANYONE YOU FEEL WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
THIS INFORMATION.
This is an occasional (max. 1 per month) email list as part of the campaign
for an open press conference at and public awareness of Bilderberg and
similar elite meetings.
See  http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm#pepis  for more info.
Archives:  http://www.mail-archive.com/  
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/pepis/messages

\\


1. Win-Win-Win?: Bilderberger Clarke One Step From Completing UK Single
Currency Triangle

-
[Note: Ken Clarke's long-time position as one of the 30 man Bilderberg
Steering Committee means he is at the heart of the conference agenda
alongside Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller. Clarke is one of only two
Brits on the Syeering Committee and decides who gets invited from the UK
each year.]


If Ken Clarke makes it to be Tory leader, all three major UK Parties will
be led by men who want Britain to drop the pound for the single European
currency.

Bilderberg Group executive committee member, Kenneth Clarke, has won the
vote by Conservative Party MPs to decide who will replace William Hague as
leader.

Clarke came first in a vote of the 166 Conservative MPs and Iain Duncan
Smith was second. They will now face a one member one vote election among
the 300,000 Tory party members with the final winner announced on September
12th.

Michael Portillo, the strong favourite at the start of the campaign and
winner of the two previous votes, is now out of the race after strangely
highlighting the need for a debate over the legalisation of cannabis and
the teaching of homsexuality in schools. I say strangely because these were
two proposals guaranteed to turn many Conservative MPs and certainly a vast
number of party members against him. If he had set out to destroy his own
chances, given the attitudes of large swathes of the right of centre party,
he could not have chosen two issues more likely to do it.

The ideal situation for the Illuminati is to have Tony Blair (Labour
Party), Kenneth Clarke (Conservative Party), and Charles Kennedy** (Liberal
Democrats) as leaders of their parties at the time of the referendum on
replacing the pound sterling with the single European currency because with
all three vehemently in favour of the Euro the pro-argument will dominate
the referendum debate.

It will be interesting, therefore, to see how Clarke's last hurdle, Iain
Duncan Smith, is treated by the media and the spinners in the leadership
campaign that will now ensue. Smith says he is strongly against replacing
the pound with the Euro.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Conspiranoia/message/1891



2. World's only Bilderberg pre-conference source dries up - Spotlight
newspaper closes

--

Liberty Lobby goes under, ends Spotlight publication - The Washington Times
Andrea Billups - 10July01

Liberty Lobby has closed its doors and its weekly newspaper, the Spotlight,
has published its last edition after a federal bankruptcy judge last week
dismissed the group's latest claim for Chapter 11 protection.
The most recent ruling by U.S. bankruptcy Judge S. Martin Teel Jr. puts an
end to a complicated eight-year battle between Liberty Lobby founder Willis
A. Carto and his former associates at the California-based Institute for
Historical Review (IHR).

IHR sued and won a multimillion-dollar judgment on claims that Mr. Carto
illegally diverted funds from the institute's Texas parent company, the
Legion for the Survival of Freedom. Mr. Carto, a resident of Escondido,
Calif., founded the Washington-based Liberty Lobby in 1955. The nonprofit
outfit and its publication, the Spotlight, funded by outside donations and
subscriptions, claimed to be America's key defender of patriotism and a hub
for grass-roots conservative activism. But they also have been criticized
as a fertile breeding ground for the views of anti-government extremists,
conspiracists and racists.

Yesterday, as about 25 employees gathered personal belongings and wrapped
up last-minute business at the Liberty Lobby offices, located at 300
Independence Ave., a spokesman defended Mr. Carto and vowed to fight on.
Nobody is really that sad,

[CTRL] Is President Bush Being Outfoxed? (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

 Is President Bush Being Outfoxed?

August 15, 2001by:  Phyllis Schlafly

When demonstrators displayed anti-American signs against our
President while traveling to Europe last month, we could brush it off
as a bunch of street radicals getting their kicks. But it is an insult
when a foreign head of state comes to the heart of the United States
and attacks our laws while his audience waves foreign flags.

Mexican President Vicente Fox spoke in Milwaukee on July 17 to
2,300 people at a meeting sponsored by the National Council of La
Raza, a Hispanic-U.S. group. He should be reminded to mind his
manners and show a decent respect for our laws when he visits the
United States.

Attacking current immigration policies, Fox demanded an
integrated Mexican-U.S. labor market. He demanded that U.S. laws
be rewritten to bring about open borders between the U.S. and
Mexico, that we give illegal aliens U.S. driver's licenses (even though
they can't read the road signs and don't have insurance), and that we
give Mexican illegals university education and other taxpayer-paid
benefits.

Specifically, Fox said, Our goal is to legalize migrant flows between
our two countries. Saying that migration should be an option, he
demanded that we exempt Mexico from limits on immigration.

Fox called for full legalization of illegal aliens, exempting Mexico from
U.S. limits on immigration and work visas, giving Mexicans a guest
worker program that uses temporary work visas, and allowing illegal
Mexican aliens to get U.S. driver's licenses and in-state college
tuition rates.

Fox also demanded that the United States increase foreign aid to
Mexico. He didn't offer to give us anything in return except poor,
uneducated, unemployed Mexicans who can't find jobs in Mexico's
corrupt socialist economy.

If Fox wants to show friendship for the United States, he could offer
to distance Mexico from the criminal price-fixing cartel called OPEC,
which props up oil prices so much higher than they would be in a
competitive market. Mexico isn't a member of OPEC but acts as
though it is by promising Saudi Arabia that it will refuse to sell the
United States more oil when OPEC punishes us by production
cutbacks.

Fox is asking for more U.S. financial handouts to bolster his pathetic
economy. But Mexico won't allow U.S. investment in the Mexican oil
industry.

In Milwaukee and at other rallies in this country, Fox tried to show
Americans that Mexicans are a potent political pressure group. He is
also trying to build a partnership between legal Mexican immigrants
and the illegals.

Fox had a tantrum after both Houses of Congress last week passed
legislation to require Mexican trucks entering the U.S. to be
inspected and meet the same safety and insurance regulations
required of U.S. and Canadian trucks. Fox said on August 2 that, if
these regulations go into effect, he will close the border to U.S.
truckers!

If Bush gives in to Fox's tantrum, Bush may get caught in an
embarrassment similar to the Illinois truck scandal. Nine people have
been killed and 50 injured in truck accidents after licenses were
corruptly sold to drivers who couldn't pass the test in English.

Fox promotes the concept of dual citizenship. Every immigrant who
becomes a naturalized American, takes an oath to absolutely and
entirely renounce all allegiance to any foreign state. Mexico is
openly fighting this fundamental principle by passing a law
recognizing dual citizenship. For example, on July 9 a former illegal
alien now naturalized American, Andres Bermudez, was elected
mayor of Jerez, a city in Mexico, declaring himself a candidate of
two nations.

If the Bush Administration believes in the rule of law, Bermudez's
U.S. citizenship should be revoked immediately. Dual citizenship is
an insurmountable barrier to assimilating naturalized citizens into the
American culture and turning immigrants from all over the world into
e pluribus unum.

The Bush and Fox administrations are now negotiating a broad
agreement on immigration policy changes that the two presidents are
expected to sign in Washington in September. Fox went public with
his accelerated demands in order to force Bush to acquiesce.

Fox's foreign minister said that Mexico will not sign any border
agreement that fails to include amnesty for 3 to 4 million Mexicans
illegally living in the United States. It's the whole enchilada or
nothing, Jorge Castaneda told journalists in Phoenix.

Vicente Fox's speeches are not the words of a friendly neighbor.
They are words that resonate with the radicals whose goal is
Mexico's conquest of southwest United States by overwhelming us
with the sheer numbers of undocumented Mexicans coming north.

Foxy enough to avoid the A-word Amnesty, Fox is nevertheless
trying to play U.S. politics to achieve that goal. He apparently thinks
he can get George W. Bush to adopt the ridiculous assumption that
circumventing our immigration laws

[CTRL] Bumble Baby Bush Balkan Bondsteel Bunkers


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.hackworth.com/13aug01.html

}}Begin
WHEN THE CANNONS SHOOT, THERE'S BROWN  ROOT
BY DAVID H. HACKWORTH
Candidate George Bush told the voters that if they got him into the White
House,
he'd get our troops out of the Balkans. He promised to use our forces for
national
security rather than as punching bags and border guards for the ex-
Yugoslavians.
During a recent visit to that very troubled spot, Bush did a 180 when he told
the troops at Camp Bondsteel, There's still a lot of work to be done. ...
Our goal is to hasten the day when peace is self-sustaining, when local,
democratically
elected authorities can assume full responsibility, and when NATO forces
can go
home.
Why the about-face?
Perhaps it was part of his campaign plan. After all, LBJ used a similar ploy
when
he told us we weren't going to Vietnam during his bid for the top job in 1964.

Or perhaps Bush's European power pals warned him they'd rain on his
defense shield
if he pulled out of Kosovo and Bosnia and didn't help defuse the ever-
multiplying
cluster-bombs in Macedonia. Meaning, play the Balkan game, and we'll
support Star
Wars.
Or maybe the porkers at the Military-Industrial-Congressional Club pointed
out
that our NATO grunts better keep the peace in the Balkans -- or say
goodbye to
those billions of bucks we spend annually to defend a Europe searching for a
reason
to make NATO go away.
Or did the folks at Texas-based Halliburton Corp. convince the prez that the
Balkans
were good for business? Its recent financial report brags: Revenues and
operating income at Brown  Root Services (B  R) were significantly higher
than the prior year's quarter resulting from increased activity levels supporting
the U.S. Army in the Balkans.
Vice President Dick Cheney's former company is hauling in dough by the
dump truck
just like the good ol' days when good ol' boy LBJ steered the construction
biz
in Vietnam to Halliburton subsidiary B  R. Now the company, which has
scored
billions since we first stuck our boots into the Balkans, continues to benefit
from the 12 major bases it has built there.
Take Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo's $350-million-plus base with annual
operating costs, including redundant B  R maintenance and services, of
close to $50 million:
* The air-conditioned Tactical Operations Center, with its Video Tele-
Conferencing,
big screens and other high-tech gizmos, is as sexy as the Pentagon's War
Room.
Price tag: a half-million dollars.
* The gyms showcase the best from the West, such as Hammer Strength
equipment. Other morale builders include: free videos and movies, Anthony's
Pizza, Burger
King, free sandwich shops -- and the ever-popular cappuccino bar, the
perfect
place to chill before refereeing the restless natives. Cost for these goodies:
more than a million dollars to build.
* The troops' living quarters -- six men to a hut -- have three showers per unit
and air conditioning. There's 180 of these little jewels at $107,000 a pop.
* The top notch two main dining facilities, at about a million to
build and maintain, are staffed by all local hires. Not only do our
peacekeepers
not have to worry about dishpan hands -- which might impact their ability to
direct
traffic -- from KP duty, the thousand-plus Kosovars who keep the place spick-
and-span
with a vengeance also clean the troops' huts up to three times a day.
* And Bondsteel's $35 million hospital will be one of Europe's premier
facilities
when completed.
B  R has been renovating everything, a sergeant there reports.
They pulled out all the shower panels and replaced them with new ones ...
the old ones were more serviceable than ones you find in soldiers' quarters in
the U.S. All they needed, at most, was a paint job.
The longer we stay in the Balkans at four-star camps like Bondsteel, the
more
dependent the locals will become and - contrary to Bush's goal -- the less
likely
anything good will come from our wearing out our forces -- except for those
who
have a vested interest in perpetuating NATO.
Almost 30 million Americans live below the poverty line. Maybe we should
declare
most of the state of Maine, the Appalachians and East Los Angeles war
zones for
openers and send B  R there. Wouldn't our tax dollars be better spent?
***
Http://www.hackworth.com is the address of David Hackworth's home page.
Sign in
for the free weekly Defending America column at his Web site. Send mail to
P.O.
Box 11179, Greenwich, CT 06831.
(c) 2001 David H. Hackworth
Distributed by King Features Syndicate Inc.


End{{

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said,

[CTRL] Both Sides Worthy of Criticism


-Caveat Lector-


http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2001/08/16/opinion/LONG16.htm


In the debate on Middle East, both sides worthy of
criticism

By Jerry Long

When debating what level of support the United States
should give to the state of Israel, the self-hating
Jew may have a range of options.

The self-thinking Gentile, unfortunately, is allowed
only two: Love it or fund it.

We must accept the arrogant defiance of the Israeli
statesman bluntly telling us to stay out of his
country's internal affairs as he strolls up to
Capitol Hill to pocket billions of our tax dollars.

Above all, we must never suggest that Palestinians
have as much right to their own independent state as
the Israelis do, lest we be portrayed as modern-day
Kristallnacht enablers.

Personally, I have never considered the phrase God
gave this to us an acceptable policy position. As
though some Ancient Omnipotent Landlord mistakenly
drew up a lease agreement with a 3,000-year sublet
option.
Yes, the Palestinians refused to compromise in 1947,
but if the Lenape showed up today with a 300-year-old
claim to the Delaware Valley, I doubt we'd be packing
up and partitioning.

Yes, there have been Jews on the land for millennia,
but there have also been Palestinians. And before
either, there were Canaanites and Philistines
amid the milk and honey. The Jews dealt with these
peoples the old-fashioned way: They smote some,
co-opted others, and constantly made bloody war among
themselves. In fact (on the off-chance that facts
matter to the discussion), the entire period of a
Greater Israel, the basis for the current settlement
controversy, lasted no more than 80 years and ended
around 920 B.C.

Some Jewish groups are properly unceasing in their
efforts to teach the world the lessons of the
Holocaust. But when a country institutes a policy
of preemptive assassination, it may be about time to
ask what lessons Israel has learned, and from which
side it learned them.

While Israeli government rationales have never been
strangers to hypocrisy, shouldn't someone at least
mention that if the British had pursued a strategy of
assassinating militants deemed to be threats to
security, Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir would have
been killed in the 1940s and Count Folke Bernadotte,
the man appointed U.N. mediator in Palestine in 1948
(and promptly assassinated), would have spent the
1950s in a suite at the King David Hotel?

So Yasir Arafat is a terrorist - but should Israelis
then feel superior because their current prime
minister is merely a war criminal? Granted, Arafat
must exert greater control over his murderers - but
couldn't Sharon have trundled down from his perch
above Sabra and Shatilla to stop Christian Phalangists
from bashing the heads of Palestinian children against
stone walls? OK, Yasir Arafat is a corrupt fraud - but
should the
United States really be in the business of denying a
people their rights based on the inadequacies of their
leader?

Please spare me the hackneyed analogies about how
Americans would feel if subjected to terrorist
bombings from Canada. Last time I checked, we weren't
surrounding Montreal with troops. We weren't diverting
the water supply of Edmonton, bulldozing homes on the
outskirts of Toronto, or erecting roadblocks and
checkpoints throughout Quebec.

Perhaps there can never be peace in the Middle East as
long as Arafat is alive. But there will also never be
peace until the Holocaust is seen for what it was: a
rancid and unspeakably obscene chapter in a
20th-century book of depravity that includes
Armenians, Cambodians, Rwandans and Kulaks - and not
an Accountability E-ZPass for a government to view its
policies as somehow beyond criticism.

Meanwhile, the United States continues to deplore all
violence while pursuing policies that indulge the
lunacy of the settlers and fuel the lunacy of Hamas.
Our government can never be an honest broker of Arab
hopes until it finds the political courage to cease
being a willing executor of Israeli demands.

These are the only absolute truths about the Middle
East: Barbarity and goodness exist on both sides while
innocent children are dying.


Jerry Long ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and his brother Joe
are known as the satirists the Sturdy Beggars.

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat

[CTRL] Fwd: the matter with ebay

Title: the matter with ebay

The Matter with Ebay

It was early 1998 and business at the fleamarket where my leather shop was located was just so-so. There hadn¹t been a lot of business at that fleamarket for a while, because a major corporation had come in a few years before and built a HUGE fleamarket down the street and around the corner from it. But we survived, and we had some neat stuff that the larger fancier fleamarket didn¹t have. We were strong on hand-made craftsmanship, whereas the large fleamarket and its exorbitant fees were mostly dependent on dealers of imported goods: the price mark-up on imported goods allowed the profits necessary to pay the rent on the new facility's spaces.
I was always looking for new areas to work into, in an effort to make a living, and I had some friends who had been on the internet for quite some time already. I had finagled some time on their machines, as well as visiting some shops where internet time was sold to a user by the hour. This gave me bright ideas, and I approached Jim, the owner of our small market, about a partnership, whereby we could open a shop with a couple of computers and rent space by the hour. This would hopefully pay for the computers and allow me time to do my thing, which was freelance writing and certain activism based on communication. We put the wheels in motion and before long had obtained a couple of IBM clones which I set up to work on a coin operated basis. We had sporadic traffic, and I was able to work late into the night surfing the internet, familiarizing myself with what was going on on the world wide web.
One of the first banner ads I ever came across on the world wide web was advertising a company called ebay. ³Funny Name for a company,² I remember thinking. I didn¹t much care for the banner ads even way back when; I saw it as a means to commercialize the internet medium along the lines of television (KILL YOUR TV), so I never visited ebay in spite of its advertisements. It wasn¹t until a month or two later, when I got a call from a friend, that I finally got around to checking ebay out. My friend John told me I should stop by that site because ³Product is starting to move there, and move well...²
I did as instructed and sure enough I was amazed at the action happening there at ebay. The first mass ecommerce venture was starting to take off!
We of course cannot say the very first ecomm venture, because there were many before ebay, but ebay was the first that worked, at least in a big way. It was reaching some sort of critical mass and the traffic was growing at amazing rate. Later web researchers of course tied this in to ease of use, and word of mouth, and a certain informality that made the place Enjoyable.
We dove into ebay and started doing real business for a change. John had gotten ahold of a nice digital camera and he made it available to me, and I bought a scanner which is almost as good as a digicam and less than 1/10th the price. We started listing on ebay and it was incredible! I was selling stock that I had been ³Collecting² for years. My first sale, or, rather, my first check from a sale, was for an agatized shell, a very fine geological specimen whose value I did not think I would realize in my lifetime. Well it sold at ebay, and for a decent price too, and the check arrived punctually. I told Ed, the jeweler who shared the building with me, to watch the shop I had to leave for a few minutes. I packed the item, and drove to the airport with it, to deposit in the mailbox there for fast turnaround.
I was pretty happy. Excitement was in the air. The power of currency was coming back to the people. Finally. We had long suspected the internet would bring new equality to economic factors within society, factors that had become hydraulically concentrated through adroit manipulations of banking over the last 100 years or so, creating things like the drug war police state, the welfare state, and all other manner of begging to an elite. We knew when the dam broke it would probably break big, and many of us thought of ebay in the beginning as the guillotine with which to chop off the heads of the foreign hydra which has taken over control of the American Government through its currency.
In the beginning at ebay there was a fail safe against over-expenditure, in that reserve prices on the auctions could be fixed at no extra cost, so that a seller would not end up selling an item, or be bound to sell an item, for less than one wished to get for it. This had a down side also, for ebay that is, because in the beginning not only was communication among users easy to do, it was encouraged too. Many times I would set the reserve price, and the bidding would not reach the reserve, but the bidders would contact me after the auction, or I them, and we could reach an agreement and make the sale. This left ebay out in the cold, and my conscience bothered me over that. I contacted them many times and told them this was

[CTRL] Happy Anniversary, B. Woods


-Caveat Lector-

From  www.wsws.org
WSWS : News  Analysis : World Economy
When the Bretton Woods system collapsed
By Nick Beams
16 August 2001
Back to screen version| Send this link by email | Email the author
Yesterday marked the 30th anniversary of one of the most significant turning
points in the history of post-war capitalism. On August 15, 1971, without
prior warning to the leaders of the other major capitalist powers, US
president Nixon announced in a Sunday evening televised address to the
nation that the US was removing the gold backing from the dollar. The
commitment by the US to redeem international dollar holdings at the rate of
$35 per ounce had formed the central foundation of the post-war international
financial system set in place at the Bretton Woods conference of 1944.
Nixons unilateral announcement dealt it a fatal blow.
To gauge the impact of Nixons decision and the significance of what
followed it is necessary to consider the historical background to the Bretton
Woods system. The agreement arrived at in the New Hampshire township in
the summer of 1944 was the outcome of a protracted series of discussions
and arguments between the leading economic and financial figures in the US
and British governments over the preceding three years.
Within the Roosevelt administration the conviction had developed, particularly
in the State Department under Cordell Hull, that the root cause of the
economic and political crises of the 1930s lay in the growth of protectionism
as national governments sought to defend their immediate domestic interests
at the expense of the functioning of the global economy as a whole.
Furthermore, it was felt that one of the contributing factors to this turbulence
was the free movement of capital around the world which destabilised
national economies and set in motion the competitive devaluation of national
currencies that played such havoc with international trade.
Consideration of the shape of post-war international economy was very much
to the fore when Roosevelt met British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in
1941 to discuss the terms of Lend Lease (the process through which the US
provided financial and material assistance to the British war effort).
Somewhat to the surprise of the British side, however, the US insisted on the
insertion of a clause in the Atlantic Charter guaranteeing free trade and
access to markets. Both governments committed themselves to further the
enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on
equal terms, to the trade and raw materials of the world.
The US was determined that the trading bloc, which Britain had formed on
the basis of its old empire, would have to be destroyed in the post-war world.
As Robert Skidelsky puts it in his biography of John Maynard Keynes,
Britains chief negotiator at Bretton Woods: To condense a complicated
story, the Americans tried to use Lend Lease as a lever to destroy Britains
pre-war financial and trading system, based on the sterling area and imperial
preference. While as far as Britain was concerned, the chief aim in
negotiations with the US was, in Keynes words the retention by us of
enough assets to leave us capable of independent action.
Whatever the issues which divided them, the British and US officials were
agreed on one thing: there could not be a return to the pre-World War I
situation where capital was free to move all over the world. International trade
had to take place without the constrictions that had bedeviled the world
economy in the 1930s. But this could only take place if the movement of
capital was not allowed to disrupt trade and currency relationships.
How far removed the policymakers of that time were from todays prevailing
orthodoxy can be seen in the remarks of US treasury secretary Henry
Morgenthau to the Bretton Woods conference. The aim of the agreement, he
told the assembled representatives of 45 nations, was to drive the usurious
moneylenders from the temple of international finance.
Keynes had made clear that if free capital movements were allowed then it
would not be possible to establish the kind of regulated capitalism at which
the new agreement was aimed. Freedom of capital movements, he insisted,
is an essential part of the old laissez-faire system and assumes that it is
right to have an equalisation of interest rates in all parts of the world. ... In
my view the whole management of the domestic economy depends upon
being free to have the appropriate rate of interest without reference to the
rates prevailing elsewhere in the world. Capital control is a corollary to this.
The issue of capital controls was directly connected to the political situation
which confronted the capitalist class after World War II. The eruption of
World War I had brought the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the series of
revolutionary upheavals that had convulsed Europe in the period 1918-23.
With the end of war now in sight, every capitalist government

Re: [CTRL] Home Gore(d)


-Caveat Lector-

on 8/16/01 12:46 PM, Aleisha Saba at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Then we had the matter of his daughter married to member of the Jacob
 Schiff family - the head guy or one in this Illuminati thing?   Now
 Schiff has dual personality too - for one man's meat, is still another
 man's poison.


this i got to hear, seeing as i know a few of the schiffs

how are they the head of the illuminati?


It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error. Justice
Robert H. Jackson--




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Bed to Crate to Pound

2001-08-16 Thread magnetic_field


-Caveat Lector-

Off post but should be read




 How Could You?
 A man in Grand Rapids, Michigan took out a $7000 full page ad in the
 paper to present the following essay to the
 people of our community.  It really touched my heart and I hope it will
 yours too.

 HOW COULD YOU?
 By Jim Willis 2001


 When I was a puppy, I entertained you with my antics and made you laugh.
 You   called me your child, and
 despite a number of chewed shoes and a couple of  murdered throw
 pillows, I became your best friend.
  Whenever I was bad,  you'd shake your finger at me and ask How could
 you? -- but then you'd relent, and
 roll me over for a bellyrub.
 My housebreaking took a little longer than expected, because you were
 terribly busy, but we worked on that
 together.  I remember those nights of nuzzling you in bed and listening
 to your confidences and secret dreams,
 and I believed that life could not be any more perfect.  We went
 for   long walks and runs in the park, car rides, stops for ice cream (I
 only got the cone because ice cream is
 bad for dogs,  ( you said), and I took long naps in the sun waiting for
 you to come home at the end of the day.
 Gradually, you began spending mor! e time at work and on your career,
 and more time searching for a human
 mate.  I waited for you patiently, comforted you through heartbreaks and
 disappointments, never chided you
 about bad decisions, and romped with glee at your homecomings, and when
 you fell in love.  She, now your wife,
 is not a dog person -- still I welcomed her into our home, tried to
 show her affection, and obeyed her.  I was
 happy because you were happy.
 Then the human babies came along and I shared your excitement.  I was
 fascinated by their pinkness, how they
 smelled, and I wanted to mother them, too.  Only she and you worried
 that I might hurt them, and I spent most of
 my time banished to another room, or to a dog crate.  Oh,
 how I wanted to love them, but I became a prisoner of love.
 As they began to grow, I became their friend.  They clung to my fur and
 pulled themselves up on wobbly legs, !
 poked fingers in my eyes, investigated my ears, and ga! ve me kisses on
 my nose.  I loved everything about them
 and their touch -- because your touch was now so infrequent --
 and I would have defended them with my life if need be.  I would sneak
 into their beds and listen to their worries
 and secret dreams, and together we waited for the sound of your car in
 the driveway.
 There had been a time, when others asked you if you had a dog, that you
 produced a photo of me from your
 wallet and told them stories about me. These past few years, you just
 answered yes and changed the subject.
  I had gone from being your dog to just a dog, and you resented
 every
 expenditure on my behalf.
 Now, you have a new career opportunity in another city, and you and they
 will be moving to an apartment that
 does not allow pets.  You've made the right decision for your family,
 but there was a time when I was your
 only family.  I was excited about the car ! ride until we arrived
 at the animal shelter.  It smelled of dogs and cats, of fear, of
 hopelessness.
 You filled out the paperwork and said I know you will find a good home
 for her.  They shrugged and gave you
 a pained look.  They understand the realities facing a middle-aged dog,
 even one with papers.
 You had to pry your son's fingers loose from my collar as he screamed
 No, Daddy!  Please don't let them take
 my dog!  And I worried for him, and what lessons you had just taught
 him about friendship and loyalty,
 about love and responsibility, and about respect for all life.  You gave
 me a
 good-bye pat on the head, avoided my eyes, and politely refused to take
 my
 collar and leash with you.  You had a deadline to meet and now I have
 one, too.
 After you left, the two nice ladies said you probably knew about your
 upcoming move months ago and made no
 attempt to! find me another good home. They shook their heads and! asked
 How could you?
 They are as attentive to us here in the shelter as their busy schedules
 allow.  They feed us, of course, but I lost
 my appetite days ago.  At first,whenever anyone passed my pen, I rushed
 to the front, hoping it was you that you
 had changed your mind -- that this was all a bad dream ... or
 I hoped it would at least be someone who cared, anyone who might save
 me.
 When I  realized I could not compete with the frolicking for attention
 of happy puppies, oblivious to their own
 fate, I retreated to a far corner and waited.
 I heard her footsteps as she came for me at the end of the day, and I
 padded along the aisle after her to a
 separate room.  A blissfully quiet room.
 She placed me on the table and rubbed my ears, and told me not to worry.
 My heart pounded in anticipation of
 what was to come, but there was also a sense of relief.  The prisoner of
 love h! ad run out of days.  As is my
 nature, I was more concerned about her.
 The

[CTRL] Israelis Indians


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1121905986prtPa
ge=1
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=715611466prtPag
e=1
}}Begin
The Times of India Online
Printed from www.timesofindia.com  Americas
Israeli teams training forces in Kashmir: Jane's

CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK


 ASHINGTON: Israeli intelligence agencies have several teams now in
Kashmir training Indian counter-insurgency forces to fight separatist guerrilla
groups operating there, according to a report on Jane's Terrorism and
Security Monitor.
Israel is understood to be heavily involved in helping New Delhi combat
Islamic militants and this is part of the intensifying of relations between the
security apparatus of the two countries, the Monitor said.
It gave no specific details of the cooperation or deployment, but said the
moves fits into Israel's increasing focus on events in Central Asia, and as far
afield as Indonesia.
Recent reports in the Israeli media also speak of increased exchanges
between New Delhi and Tel Aviv, including one account of a phone
conversation between India's foreign minister Jaswant Singh and Israel's
Shimon Peres in which they discussed the security issues facing their
countries.
Although Singh did not express any support to Israel's action against militant
Palestinians and, on the contrary, had plenty of questions, Peres is said to
have explained the rationale of the Israeli counterattacks. Israel's goal is not
just to defeat terrorism but to renew dialogue and find a solution, Perez is
understood to have told Singh, a sentiment that broadly conforms to India's
own emerging outlook.
The Indo-Israeli exchanges are attracting plenty of attention in US strategic
circles and many analysts are watching to see what lessons New Delhi will
draw from the aggressive Israeli retaliation to terrorist attacks.
At a recent think-tank pow-wow, questions about whether India would
undertake similar actions to meet the killing spree in Kashmir head-on invited
the following sardonic response from a senior administration official: Yeah,
but how many nuclear weapons do the Palestinians have?
Still, the strategic community has been rife with talk about the intensifying
Indo-Israeli cooperation, including on the nuclear front (which New Delhi has
denied).
The two sides are beginning to talk regularly on the political plane too. The
Israeli media reported last week that Jaswant Singh assured Peres that India
will not accept any form of the Zionist-racism equation at the international
conference on racism in Durban later this month.
Considering how much India had railed against Zionism in the past -
including a 1975 supporting vote for a UN resolution equating Zionism with
racism -- is seems quite a shift in outlook derived quite likely because of the
new security considerations.
The Islamic world is working overtime to introduce language linking Zionism
and racism, but Israel and the US are among those opposing it. Washington
last fortnight despatched its Assistant Secretary for Human Rights and
Democracy Lorne Cramer to New Delhi, to make the case against the
Zionism-racism equation and demands for reparations connected to slavery,
a mission that met with obvious success. A small pay-off for that support will
be that the US and Israel will help India quash any language linking casteism
with racism, although there does not seem to be any imminent danger of that
at the Durban conference.
Congressional staffers say India's changed position has met with approval of
many key lawmakers on the Hill, where the clout of the Jewish lobby is no
secret. In fact, India's whole turn around on relations with Israel began with a
Hill connection in 1988 when the Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, reversing his
mother's stance of two decades, met with a leading Jewish lobbyist in New
York at the behest of a pro-India Congressman Stephen Solarz. This was
soon followed by the appointment of a new Israeli Consul in Bombay.
Despite its new orientation in the region, the BJP government has also tried
to warm relations with key Gulf states like Saudi Arabia and Iran, with
Jaswant Singh making path-breaking trips to those and many other countries
in the Islamic world.
© The Times OF India Online. All rights reserved.

The Times of India Online
Printed from www.timesofindia.com  Mideast
Israel has security pacts with India, China


 ERUSALEM: Israel has signed secret cooperative agreements with 39
countries, including India and China, to prevent information leaks from joint
security projects.
As per the agreement, in the event of an information leak or transfer of
sensitive information to a third party by a spy, both countries must work
together to investigate the matter, media reports said here on Thursday.
In the event of a leak of information, the country in which the leak took place
must compile a report giving explanations and findings of the investigation
present it to the second country.

Re: [CTRL] To die for.


-Caveat Lector-

Nude female soldiers new 'Zionist' weapon

This IS a Monty Python sketch, isn't it?  Or perhaps an old Benny Hill
routine?


June
;-)

-
---
* Check out Alternative Kite Radio -- http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno
com for:
*
* Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (because it's always summer
somewhere on the globe)
* Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (because everyday is a holiday somewhere)
--

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] SMIRKING SKAKEL TRIES TO KO CASE


-Caveat Lector-

SMIRKING SKAKEL
TRIES TO KO CASE

By ANGELA C. ALLEN
---
-

 TIME OUT:
Michael Skakel (left) leaves Stamford, Conn., Superior Court
yesterday after his lawyers argued that the case against him is too
old and should be tossed.
- Associated Press

August 16, 2001 -- STAMFORD, Conn. - Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel
appeared to smirk at the family of Martha Moxley yesterday as his
lawyers argued to dismiss 25-year-old murder charges against him.
Skakel, the 40-year-old nephew of Ethel Kennedy, turned from his
seat in Stamford Superior Court several times to look at the mother
and brother of Martha, the 15-year-old neighbor of Skakel's who was
found bludgeoned to death with a golf club in 1975.

We're always going to be there, said brother John Moxley.

He knows we're coming. He was looking over his shoulder to see
who's following him.

While the families glared at each other, Skakel's lawyers argued
that the state took too long to try his case.

Defense lawyer David Grudberg said that at the time of the slaying,
a five-year statute of limitations was in effect for murder
charges, except in cases carrying the death penalty.

But prosecutor Jonathan Benedict said the law was never intended
to provide a limit to the prosecution of . . . intentional murder.

Judge John Kavanewsky said he would rule on the motion later.

Another defense lawyer, Michael Sherman, promised that Skakel would
provide an alibi for his whereabouts on the night Moxley was
killed.

But Kavanewsky rejected Sherman's motion to force the prosecution
to narrow its estimate of the time of the murder. Benedict said
forensics experts cannot be any more specific than some time
between 9:30 p.m. on Oct. 30, 1975, and 5 a.m. the following day.

It's kind of difficult to deal with such a wide range, Sherman
said.

Outside court, he refused to say whether his client's alibi covers
the entire period.


Holdings, Inc. Copyright 2001 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights
reserved.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Adult Stem Cell Miracle Breakthrough Reported in Canada


-Caveat Lector-

Tuesday August 14, 2001; 2:20 p.m. EDT
Adult Stem Cell Miracle Breakthrough Reported in Canada

In a development that could halt the political momentum behind
embryonic stem cell research, a scientist working at Montreal's
McGill University has made the first-ever discovery of human stem
cells in the skin of adults.

The findings of Montreal Neurological Institute researcher Freda
Miller, first published Monday in the scientific journal Nature
Cell Biology are generating huge interest in the scientific
community, according to the Montreal Gazette -- though the American
media has by and large ignored the miraculous breakthrough.

The dream scenario would be to take someone with spinal cord
injuries, say an 18-year-old, take a biopsy from their skin and use
that to treat the injury in the same patient, Miller told the
Gazette, which noted that her discovery may even facilitate the
regrowth of human organs.

Before Miller's find, scientists believed that adult stem cell
research would never be as productive as the embryonic variety,
since adult stem cells are found only in the brain and bone marrow.

(Skin-derived stem cells were) just not on the radar screen in
terms of the way any of us were thinking, Miller told the Gazette.
The idea of lots of stem cells in different tissue is a very, very
new one. Can it be true that you could get a stem cell from one
place and it would make another kind of cell? We didn't believe it
ourselves.

The medical implications of Miller's discovery are enormous, the
paper said, especially as they relate to the embryonic stem cell
debate in the U.S.

Opinions vary but the prevailing view in North America seems to be
that obtaining stem cells from human embryos, even to cure
diseases, is considered immoral. The embryo is destroyed in the
process.

But Miller's research opens the door to a world of new, far less
controversial possibilities.

We gave it two months, the Montreal scientist said of the
research into skin-derived stem cells. But it worked right from
the beginning. Every step of the way it's been an 'I can't believe
that it's true' experience.

The McGill University research team found that its isolated cells
began growing in grape clusters and duplicating at an amazing
speed -- once every two or three days.

What's more, the skin-based adult stem cells were able to produce
different types of cells.

It was almost a hybrid or a more promiscuous version of those
adult stem cells, Miller told the Gazette, adding, It's very
exciting.

Still, despite the enormous scientific and medical potential of the
McGill University discovery, more than a day after the Gazette
report, the U.S. media continues to ignore the story.

In its Tuesday edition, the New York Times, for instance, was still
touting the wonders of embryonic stem cell research, with a front
page story on the progress made in Britain.

In the U.S., only the Washington Times and the Christian
Broadcasting Network have covered Miller's findings.


Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:


Media Bias
Stem Cell Research


All Rights Reserved © NewsMax.com

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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally


-Caveat Lector-

Wednesday, Aug. 15, 2001
L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally

Los Angeles County taxpayers are out $27 million because the county
illegally jailed about 400,000 people over five years.

County supervisors agreed Tuesday to the payment to settle five
class-action lawsuits.

The longtime problem of the sheriff's department in keeping
prisoners in jail after courts have ordered them released is far
greater than previously known, the Los Angeles Times reported
today.

The department, blaming clerical errors, for years has admitted
that it kept hundreds and sometimes thousands of inmates past the
date a judge had ordered their release. But it did not mention the
thousands of other prisoners routinely held for additional days
because of the time it took to process their release, the Times
said. The Associated Press said some people were wrongly
incarcerated because of erroneous warrants.


County attorneys admit that up to half of those held illegally were
strip-searched.

Despite repeated alarms about the problem since the mid-1990s, a
new computer system to connect the jail to the courts is not
scheduled to be working until 2003, the Times said.

It's not pleasing for me to stand up in front of the county of Los
Angeles and talk about a $27 million settlement in these terms,
Sheriff Lee Baca said at a news conference Tuesday night. My
greatest wish is that the sheriff's department would have done the
right thing when these claims were coming in and fix it.


 Police Spokesman: Roger Clinton Rehab Story Vindicates Hermosa
Beach PD

 Fox News Keeps Rising

 L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines


-Caveat Lector-

Well, that was quick!  All of 48 hours and already they are
demanding MORE cell lines.  Looks like some more human life has to
be taken but not to worry as we can always blame the Pope.  He
reads the paper, doesn't he?
Ditto those 40 million abortions.

Is the embryo human, yes or no?  It is not a fish, fowl, etc.?
Human.

It is 'alive'?  Yes or no?  Yes, or the cells would not be alive.

I would think this was destruction of human life and the cheapening
thereof had I not learned of the 'Pope Loophole' whereby he can be
blamed for virtually everything that has ever happened by virtue of
his knowing of it.  He must know about this for Bush consulted with
him and therefore this is all his fault.

And as for his apologizing for the castrati of the 1500's and such,
that Archbishop he has kidnapped and is holding against his will
had better watch it and be careful.  No telling what he will do to
him!  And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn for I have learned
a very valuable lesson in the blindness and loyalty to one's own
personal agenda and one's own belief system even if it flies in the
face of facts as others do.  3 million dead ROMAN Catholic (NOT
Orthodox) in Poland alone and the legacy of such as Fr. Kolbe speak
louder than all the lies and Holocaust myths of the revisionists.
~Amelia~


Thompson reassures skeptical scientists

By MARILYNN MARCHIONE
of the Journal Sentinel staff
Last Updated: Aug. 10, 2001
Stem Cell Research


Photo/AP
Tommy G. Thompson speaks Friday at the National Institutes of
Health in Bethesda, Md.

U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson
reassured skeptical scientists Friday that enough viable embryonic
stem cells exist to enable them to do sufficient research to
explore the cells' potential for curing diseases.

Also Friday, University of Wisconsin-Madison officials said they'd
been assured that UW's five stem cell lines would qualify for
federal funding under President Bush's proposal.

We have been told that ours will work, but not officially, said
Andrew Cohn, a spokesman for a UW-affiliated research foundation.

James Thomson, the UW scientist who pioneered the stem cell
research, said Thompson called him Friday and asked him to support
Bush's decision to allow funding only on existing stem cells
already derived from embryos and not for work that would involve
destroying more embryos.

Thomson said he wished Bush had allowed more work to be funded, but
added, This gets it going, and that's what has to be emphasized.

At a news conference Friday at the National Institutes of Health,
Thompson and others talked about the 60 stem cell lines they claim
exist now, and said Bush's decision would allow plenty of research
to be done.

Make no mistake, this is a bold step forward, Thompson said.

Embryonic stem cells are master cells that can form virtually any
tissue or organ in the body. A cell line is a collection of
genetically identical cells that are able to live and perpetually
divide in a lab dish. Each cell line must have been established
from a different embryo.

All day, prominent scientists from Harvard University on the East
Coast to Stanford University on the West Coast disputed Bush and
Thompson's assertion that so many true cell lines exist now.

Paul Berg, a Stanford University Nobel laureate, said he was
mystified when Bush said there were more than 60.

The most anybody I've talked to is aware of is probably 10 or
less, he said.

I thought there were only about a dozen out there, said Catherine
Verfaillie, who heads a stem cell research center at the University
of Minnesota.

The president evidently is privy to information unknown to me and
other members of the scientific community, said Douglas Melton, a
stem cell researcher at Harvard.

Thompson said that's exactly the case. He said no one had ever done
a formal investigation and count of them, nationally and
internationally, until he requested it as part of the research Bush
asked him to do in making his decision on the funding issue.

We were surprised by the number 60, Thompson said.

He described the cell lines as genetically diverse, robust and
viable, and stressed that each came from a different embryo.

A lot of the research was being done behind closed doors and being
protected for proprietary reasons, Thompson said.

5 other countries
Lana Skirboll, director of science policy at NIH, said the cell
lines are in five countries besides the United States - Sweden,
Israel, India, Australia and Singapore. She said NIH has an
inventory, but would not release it because of the need to protect
the commercial interests of the businesses involved that willingly
shared confidential information with federal officials.

But she identified these three and said they collectively have 17
stem cell lines:

WiCell, a subsidiary of the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation,
which manages the commercial aspect of work done by UW scientists.
UW officials say WiCell has five cell lines.

Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.


-Caveat Lector-

So if a majority (let's say whites just for theory) wanted to
eliminate a minority (let's use blacks for this theory) it would be
perfectly acceptable to do absolutely anything to get them to
leave?  But I thought this was what groups like the ADL were
OPPOSED to being practiced.  This is the OPPOSITE of what is
supposed to happen.  It is the same thing that is being done to the
Afrikaners in Zimbabwe.  This certainly alters the rules a bit.  I
am beginning to understand.
~Amelia~

- Original Message -
From: flw [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL]   You can't always get what you wan't.


-Caveat Lector-

  And in that dual identity lies the key to his
anger--and to the rage of
  thousands of Israeli Arabs who have joined the street
protests here
  in recent days.

 Life is tough when you're an enemy isn't it?
J2

BUT BUT BUT! J2, aren't these enemies one of your treasured
non Jewish Israeli citizens!!! Aren't these enemies merely
unholding
the honored, world renowned reputation of Israel as a multicultural
secular society where everyone has a voice??
flw



A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines


-Caveat Lector-

on 8/16/01 2:33 PM, Amelia at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



eggs are not people
sperm are not people
cells are not people

not every fertilized egg in a woman's body actually becomes a baby

it is not a 1 to 1 correlation between zygote and birth

do we have to through every woman's menses now to see if she is
inadvertently murdering a fertilized egg? Maybe charge every miscarriage as
manslaughter?

90% of the embryos used for this are in fertility labs and will never, I
repeat, never be used.

I'd like to see some of these people complaining about life sacred nature do
something about all the un-adopted minority babies out there, ban the death
penalty, etc. Then I might believe that they find life scared.


 -Caveat Lector-

 Well, that was quick!  All of 48 hours and already they are
 demanding MORE cell lines.  Looks like some more human life has to
 be taken but not to worry as we can always blame the Pope.  He
 reads the paper, doesn't he?
 Ditto those 40 million abortions.

 Is the embryo human, yes or no?  It is not a fish, fowl, etc.?
 Human.

 It is 'alive'?  Yes or no?  Yes, or the cells would not be alive.

 I would think this was destruction of human life and the cheapening
 thereof had I not learned of the 'Pope Loophole' whereby he can be
 blamed for virtually everything that has ever happened by virtue of
 his knowing of it.  He must know about this for Bush consulted with
 him and therefore this is all his fault.

 And as for his apologizing for the castrati of the 1500's and such,
 that Archbishop he has kidnapped and is holding against his will
 had better watch it and be careful.  No telling what he will do to
 him!  And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn for I have learned
 a very valuable lesson in the blindness and loyalty to one's own
 personal agenda and one's own belief system even if it flies in the
 face of facts as others do.  3 million dead ROMAN Catholic (NOT
 Orthodox) in Poland alone and the legacy of such as Fr. Kolbe speak
 louder than all the lies and Holocaust myths of the revisionists.
 ~Amelia~


 Thompson reassures skeptical scientists

 By MARILYNN MARCHIONE
 of the Journal Sentinel staff
 Last Updated: Aug. 10, 2001
 Stem Cell Research


 Photo/AP
 Tommy G. Thompson speaks Friday at the National Institutes of
 Health in Bethesda, Md.

 U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson
 reassured skeptical scientists Friday that enough viable embryonic
 stem cells exist to enable them to do sufficient research to
 explore the cells' potential for curing diseases.

 Also Friday, University of Wisconsin-Madison officials said they'd
 been assured that UW's five stem cell lines would qualify for
 federal funding under President Bush's proposal.

 We have been told that ours will work, but not officially, said
 Andrew Cohn, a spokesman for a UW-affiliated research foundation.

 James Thomson, the UW scientist who pioneered the stem cell
 research, said Thompson called him Friday and asked him to support
 Bush's decision to allow funding only on existing stem cells
 already derived from embryos and not for work that would involve
 destroying more embryos.

 Thomson said he wished Bush had allowed more work to be funded, but
 added, This gets it going, and that's what has to be emphasized.

 At a news conference Friday at the National Institutes of Health,
 Thompson and others talked about the 60 stem cell lines they claim
 exist now, and said Bush's decision would allow plenty of research
 to be done.

 Make no mistake, this is a bold step forward, Thompson said.

 Embryonic stem cells are master cells that can form virtually any
 tissue or organ in the body. A cell line is a collection of
 genetically identical cells that are able to live and perpetually
 divide in a lab dish. Each cell line must have been established
 from a different embryo.

 All day, prominent scientists from Harvard University on the East
 Coast to Stanford University on the West Coast disputed Bush and
 Thompson's assertion that so many true cell lines exist now.

 Paul Berg, a Stanford University Nobel laureate, said he was
 mystified when Bush said there were more than 60.

 The most anybody I've talked to is aware of is probably 10 or
 less, he said.

 I thought there were only about a dozen out there, said Catherine
 Verfaillie, who heads a stem cell research center at the University
 of Minnesota.

 The president evidently is privy to information unknown to me and
 other members of the scientific community, said Douglas Melton, a
 stem cell researcher at Harvard.

 Thompson said that's exactly the case. He said no one had ever done
 a formal investigation and count of them, nationally and
 internationally, until he requested it as part of the research Bush
 asked him to do in making his decision on the funding issue.

 We were surprised by the number 60, Thompson said.

 He described the cell lines as genetically diverse, robust and
 viable, and stressed that each

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: THE LAST WORDS OF


-Caveat Lector-

Be sure to buy shoes for June.

[snip]

Junie needs a new pair of shoes.

As much as I needed a new pair of shoes, I wish to go on record that I never
got them.

No shoes that ever resided in New Orleans or visited the Soviet Embassy in
Mexico City. No sleazy Dallas-strip-joint shoes. No doctored image of shoes
on the cover of Newsweek and Time. No 'magic shoes', no 'double shoes', no
second pair of shoes on the Grassy Knoll...



June (aka Junie)
;-)

-
---
* Check out Alternative Kite Radio -- http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno
com for:
*
* Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (because it's always summer
somewhere on the globe)
* Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (because everyday is a holiday somewhere)
--

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Abortion Cams Coming to A Station Near You


-Caveat Lector-

 Try doing that, and you'll soon find yourself running afoul of privacy
 laws in many jurisdictions...

Curious; how do such laws apply to people walking into a business
establishment from a public street? Remember Tampa's camera
defense? Presumably, people walking on a public street have no reasonable
expectation of privacy. :-)

A public street is just that -- PUBLIC.  One can't expect complete privacy
when out in PUBLIC.

A place of business is a PRIVATE establishment, according to the law...

Someone walking on a public street leading to an abortion clinic could be
legally videotaped or filmed...but as soon as they step onto or into private
property -- such as the property of the abortion clinic -- they could NOT be
videotaped or filmed without their express permission.  Same thing applies
if someone drives into an abortion clinic's parking lot, which is private
property, and never steps into the street but instead exits their vehicle,
crosses the parking lot to the clinic and enters...it would be against the
law to videotape or film such people without their express permission to do
so...


Who's paying for the webcams, and the rent for wherever these webcams will
be set up...

From what I gathered going to the website (an unpleasant experience to say
the least), such footage is obtained through/by volunteers.

But where are these volunteers and their cameras stationed?  If they are
outside the clinic, they are trespassing on private property.  If they are
out on the public sidewalk or street, they are loitering.  If they have set
themselves up in an adjacent building and are shooting footage out of a
window, who is paying the rent?


Passers by either on foot or by car?

Then they would not be able to constantly videotape or film the people going
into and leaving the clinic.


Sidewalks across the street?

Then they are loiterers...


 else they could be easily removed as it would be
an issue of trespassing on private property.

Only if charges were raised by property owners.

If they are on the clinic's property, one assumes that the clinic wouldn't
hesitate to press charges.  One also suspects that every other business in
the adjacent vacinity wouldn't hesitate to press charges against such
obnoxious trespassers, also...


I could set up a webcam pointing into Gary Condit's bedroom and argue that
I
m doing so for political reasons and argue First Amendment rights...but
the
fact is, I'd be violating Condit's right to privacy, a right that has been
upheld in the courts.

Yes, for private citizens. From what I understand, the line between public
figure and private citizen is a blurry one at best.

But a public figure still has a reasonable right to privacy in most cases.
I couldn't set a webcam up in every toilet in the White House and argue that
I have a First Amendment right to do so because George W. Bush is a 'public
figure'...

And what is being done with this anti-choice webcam is NOT involving public
figures, but private citizens...


June

-
---
* Check out Alternative Kite Radio -- http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno
com for:
*
* Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
* Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (because it's always summer
somewhere on the globe)
* Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (because everyday is a holiday somewhere)
--

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Florida voters sue the state over new voting guidelines!

2001-08-16 Thread Bill Howard


-Caveat Lector-

As the saying goes, Now I've seen just about everything!

Florida voters sue the state for the right to be ignorant!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/8/15/180447.shtml

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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally

2001-08-16 Thread Bill Howard


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 8/16/01 12:26:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 The longtime problem of the sheriff's department in keeping
prisoners in jail after courts have ordered them released is far
greater than previously known, the Los Angeles Times reported
today. 

Hey, at least their families knew where they were. And besides they were
getting hots meals and a warm, dry place to sleep.

BHoward

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally


-Caveat Lector-

you know Bill, i know we dont agree on much, but it wasn't until this post i
thought you were a complete heartless asshole.

Try a day in jail, then open your mouth.




Free your mind and your ass will follow.
   St George


NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew



on 8/16/01 5:00 PM, Bill Howard at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 8/16/01 12:26:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  The longtime problem of the sheriff's department in keeping
 prisoners in jail after courts have ordered them released is far
 greater than previously known, the Los Angeles Times reported
 today. 

 Hey, at least their families knew where they were. And besides they were
 getting hots meals and a warm, dry place to sleep.

 BHoward

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 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Abortion Cams Coming to A Station Near You

2001-08-16 Thread Edward Britton


-Caveat Lector-

June:


  Try doing that, and you'll soon find yourself running afoul of privacy
  laws in many jurisdictions...
 
 Curious; how do such laws apply to people walking into a business
 establishment from a public street? Remember Tampa's camera
 defense? Presumably, people walking on a public street have no reasonable
 expectation of privacy. :-)

A public street is just that -- PUBLIC.  One can't expect complete privacy
when out in PUBLIC.


Precisely, but the cameras in question are aimed at people on public
streets. Once the targeted individuals enter the threshold of the
establishment at issue, the camera does not follow.


A place of business is a PRIVATE establishment, according to the law...


Correct, and said camera persons do not enter the establishment.
They  electronically monitor the comings and goings of persons onto and off
of a public street at a specified location--according to the forward anyway.


Someone walking on a public street leading to an abortion clinic could be
legally videotaped or filmed...


Agreed.


but as soon as they step onto or into private
property -- such as the property of the abortion clinic -- they could NOT be
videotaped or filmed without their express permission.


Agreed again.


Same thing applies if someone drives into an abortion clinic's parking
lot, which is private property,


Not always, but point taken.


  and never steps into the street but instead exits their vehicle, crosses
 the parking lot to the clinic and enters...it would be against the law to
 videotape or film such people without their express permission to do so...


Correct.


 From what I gathered going to the website (an unpleasant experience to say
 the least), such footage is obtained through/by volunteers.

But where are these volunteers and their cameras stationed?  If they are
outside the clinic, they are trespassing on private property.


Define outside. Outside could be across the street or in a car passing
by. In any case, the street and adjacent sidewalks are not considered
private property.


  If they are out on the public sidewalk or street, they are loitering.


Presumably only if they are caught or if an issue is made of their
presence. In any case, a great deal of footage may be obtained in the
interim.


If they have set themselves up in an adjacent building and are shooting
footage out of a window, who is paying the rent?


I do not know, but this is an interesting proposition :-)


 Passers by either on foot or by car?

Then they would not be able to constantly videotape or film the people going
into and leaving the clinic.


Agreed.  I'm not completely certain what they hope to gain by this activity
in the first place. If abortion clinic patrons were that worried about any
potential social stigma attached to getting abortions, they'd come up with
alternate plans (like going to a clinic within a larger building such as a
hospital or medical complex). Doing so would offer an immediate solution to
the privacy issue.


  else they could be easily removed as it would be
 an issue of trespassing on private property.
 
 Only if charges were raised by property owners.

If they are on the clinic's property, one assumes that the clinic wouldn't
hesitate to press charges.


Agreed. Hence the best solution to the issue in general: place such clinics
within larger buildings which have functions other than the specific
purpose of providing abortions (hospitals, shopping malls, etc.).


One also suspects that every other business in
the adjacent vacinity wouldn't hesitate to press charges against such
obnoxious trespassers, also...


Agreed!


 Yes, for private citizens. From what I understand, the line between public
 figure and private citizen is a blurry one at best.

But a public figure still has a reasonable right to privacy in most cases.


Most cases?  These cases/exceptions are? Precedent would be helpful.


I couldn't set a webcam up in every toilet in the White House and argue that
I have a First Amendment right to do so because George W. Bush is a 'public
figure'...


Except where such placement threatens personal or national security, why
not? I'm not serious, of course, but this particular facet of law
fascinates me. What separates public figures from private individuals? At
what point is the former not the latter? Do we determine this by function?


And what is being done with this anti-choice


Your anti-choice is their anti-infanticide. No one wins in a battle of
rhetoric.


  webcam is NOT involving public
figures, but private citizens...


Agreed, but such may not be relevant given the place where such
observations are taking place.

Edward   +

The desire to rule is the mother of heresies. ~ St. John Chrysostom
http://www.global-connector.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reality_pump/
~~

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[CTRL] [Fwd: Neocolonial Invitation to a Tribal War (Noam Chomsky)]

2001-08-16 Thread Mark McHugh





 
  A - I N F O S  N E W S  S E R V I C E
http://www.ainfos.ca/
 

News for Anarchists  Activists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Published on Monday, August 13, 2001 in the Los Angeles Times

Neocolonial Invitation to a Tribal War

by Noam Chomsky

What we feared has come true, Israeli sociologist Baruch
Kimmerling writes in Israel's leading newspaper. Jews and
Palestinians are regressing to superstitious tribalism
War appears an unavoidable fate, an evil colonial war.
This prospect is likely if the U.S. grants tacit
authorization, with grim consequences that may reverberate
far beyond.

There is, of course, no symmetry between the ethno-national
groups regressing to tribalism. The conflict is centered in
territories that have been under harsh military occupation
since 1967. The conqueror is a major armed power, acting
with massive military, economic and diplomatic support from
the global superpower. Its subjects are alone and
defenseless, many barely surviving in miserable camps.

The cruelty of the occupation has been sharply condemned by
international and Israeli human rights groups for many
years. The purpose of the terror, economic strangulation and
daily humiliation is not obscure. It was articulated in the
early years of the occupation by Moshe Dayan, one of the
Israeli leaders most sympathetic to the Palestinian plight,
who advised his Labor Party associates to tell the
Palestinians that you shall continue to live like dogs, and
whoever wishes may leave. The Oslo peace process changed
the modalities, but not the basic concept. Shortly before
joining the Ehud Barak government, historian Shlomo Ben-Ami,
a dove in the U.S.-Israeli spectrum, wrote that the Oslo
agreements were founded on a neocolonialist basis. The
intent was to impose on the Palestinians almost total
dependence on Israel in a colonial situation that was to
be permanent. He soon became the architect of the latest
Barak government proposals, virtually identical to Bill
Clinton's final plan.

These proposals were highly praised in U.S. commentary; the
Palestinians and Yasser Arafat were blamed for their failure
and the subsequent violence.

That presentation was a fraud perpetrated on Israeli ...
and international ... public opinion, Kimmerling writes
accurately. He continues that, a look at a map suffices to
show that the Clinton-Barak plans presented to the
Palestinians impossible terms. Crucially, Israel retained
two settlement blocs that in effect cut the West Bank into
pieces. The Palestinian enclaves also are effectively
separated from the center of Palestinian life in Jerusalem;
the Gaza Strip remains isolated, its population virtually
imprisoned.

Israeli settlement in the territories doubled during the
years of the peace process, increasing under Barak, who
bequeathed the new government of Ariel Sharon a surprising
legacy, the Israeli press reported as the transition took
place early this year: The highest number of housing starts
in the territories since the time when Sharon supervised
settlements in 1992, before Oslo. The facts on the ground
are the living reality for the desperate population.

The nature of permanent neo-colonial dependency was
underscored by Israel's High Court of Justice in November
1999 when it rejected yet another Palestinian petition
opposing further expansion of the [Jewish] city of Maale
Adumim established to the east of Jerusalem, virtually
partitioning the West Bank.

The court suggested that some good for the residents of
neighboring [Palestinian villages] might spring from the
economic and cultural development of the all-Jewish city.
While they try to survive without water to drink or fields
to cultivate, the people whose lands have been taken can
enjoy the sight of the ample housing, green lawns, swimming
pools and other amenities of the heavily subsidized Israeli
settlements.

Immediately after World War II, the Geneva Conventions were
adopted to bar repetition of Nazi crimes, including transfer
of population to occupied territories or actions that harm
civilians. As a so-called high contracting party, the U.S.
is obligated to ensure respect for the conventions.

With Israel alone opposed, the United Nations has repeatedly
declared the conventions applicable to the occupied
territories; the U.S. abstains from these votes, unwilling
to take a public stand in violation of fundamental
principles of international law, which require it to act to
prevent settlement and expropriation, attacks on civilians
with U.S.-supplied helicopters, collective punishment and
all other repressive measures used by the occupying forces.
Washington has continued to provide the means to implement
these practices, refusing even to allow observers who might
reduce violence and protect the victims.

For 25 years, there has been a near-unanimous international
consensus on the terms of political

[CTRL] Military Revolution

2001-08-16 Thread radtimes


-Caveat Lector-

Military Revolution
Red Herring (08/01/01) No. 101, P. 47; Williams, Mark; Madden,
Andrew P.

New Mexico's Sandia National Laboratories is one of the few
companies bold enough to try to influence the military's way
of viewing warfare, with its development of a small,
highly-maneuverable wheeled vehicle able to clear a room
without causing casualties. Researchers involved in military
affairs have been working on a revolution in military
affairs--dubbed RMA--for the last decade in an effort to both
improve and decrease the size of technology utilized by
America's armed forces. The RMA has been officially endorsed
by the Pentagon and hinges on the system of systems and the
continued effort to shrink the size of needed military
equipment. Adoption of the RMA ultimately lends itself to
better communication with defense contractors, which develop
military systems exactly as they are specified. U.S.
technology significantly outweighed that of allies and other
nations at the time of the Gulf War; however, such technology
forces hostile countries to resort to guerilla or
terrorist-style actions. Even though the Pentagon has endorsed
improvements in military technology, the Army, Navy, and Air
Force are concerned that ranks will disintegrate, since they
will have to work together and forgo their long-running
competitions. Another problem continues to be budget; even
though the current president supports increased military
funding, the Armed Forces would still need to expand by at
least $50 billion annually. Advocates of new military
technology estimate by 2040, the entire force will be composed
of small special forces and a greater reliance on
tele-operations. (www.redherring.com/)

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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Knights Of Malta

http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/knightsofmalta.html



Knights of Malta


This closed fraternity is a military order of the Roman Catholic Church. Its 
initiated members must be Catholic, and have served in the military. They 
participate in secret ceremonies and feudal ritual dress, and embrace a 
strong class/caste mentality as part of their initiation into Rosicrucian 
dogma. 

The upper grades are fastidiously aristocratic and must be able to display a 
family coat-of-arms dating back at least 300 years in unbroken succession 
from father to son.  The Grand Master of the order is recognized as a head of 
state, and his authority is ensured by his secular ranking as a Prince, and 
his ecclesiastical ranking as a Cardinal.  Under international law this 
organization has independent Sovereign principality, which assures 
nationalistic loyalty from its members, above and beyond allegience to their 
own country.  They also have Permanent Observer status at the United Nations.

The order has been proven to be linked with the "Rat Run", the post-WWII 
escape route used by high-ranking Nazis and death camp scientists from 
defeated Germany to the Americas.  Sovereign Knight of Malta passports were 
issued with false identities which allowed escape from prosecution for war 
crimes.  Perversely, after the war the order's highest decoration, the Grand 
Cross of Merit, was awarded to General Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's head of 
intelligence. 

The brotherhood's strong Catholic roots made the modern knights fervently 
anti-communist.  The order has been largely responsible for the construction 
of the CIA, and many of its global covert operations.  The founding fathers 
of the CIA William "Wild Bill" Donovan and Allen Dulles were knights, as were 
most other heads of the CIA including Ronald Reagan's director William 
Casey.  Casey gave Pope John Paul II unprecedented access to CIA intelligence 
including spy satellites and agents.

In fact, one could blame the start of the Cold War upon William Donovan 
personally.  At the end of the First World War Donovan led a secret mission 
to Siberia to observe the Russian Revolution.  Due to his reconnaissance an 
American unit was sent to fight the Russian Bolsheviks who were broadly 
considered Allies, as they were still fighting the Germans alongside the 
British and the French in the trenches of Europe.  The American troops could 
not understand why they were being ordered to burn the villages and kill 
"these poor and hungry peasants, who've been treated so terribly by their 
rulers", as one "doughboy" wrote to his wife.  It is historically un-American 
to side with the aristocratic powers of Europe against the common man.  
Donovan's motives for fighting the Bolsheviks could only have been due to his 
Catholic Knights of Malta allegiances, as at this time the Russian Revolution 
was no threat to the American Republic.

The Knights of Malta's key spheres of control are Africa and Latin America, 
and include many dictators such as mass murderer General Pinochet in their 
ranks.

Membership in Latin America includes Masonic lodge "P2" fascists and many 
surviving Nazi players, who are directly responsible for the formation of the 
modern neo-Nazi movement.  Knight and Nazi escapee Otto "Scarface" Skorzeny, 
who had led a commando raid on the Cathar region of France in search of 
occult artifacts including the Holy Grail, played a major role in the 
Vatican's "Rat Run".  Conveniently for Nazis members who did not escape, 
Knight William Donovan served as chief aide to the American prosecutor at the 
post-war Nuremberg trials, after handing over the reigns of the OSS/CIA to 
fellow Knight Allen Dulles.  

Prior to working for the OSS (he headed the OSS station in Switzerland during 
the war) Allen Dulles and his law partner John Foster had served as business 
managers and lawyers to John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil.  They personally 
brokered the partnership between Standard Oil and I.G. Farben chemical 
corporation.  I.G.Farben not only produced gasoline for the Nazi war machine, 
it manufactured "Zyklon B", used slave labor before and during the war 
(including their huge petro-chemical factory adjacent to Auschwitz death 
camp), owned Bayer Pharmaceuticals which according to a current lawsuit was 
directly involved in Dr. Josef Mengele's horrific Auschwitz experiments, and 
was spared from Allied bombings due to its Rockefeller interests.  Leading 
war-time journalist George Seldes attempted to reveal this "unholy alliance" 
through his newspaper articles, but was rarely published at the time, and 
efforts were made to kill him.  Joseph Heller's satirical novel "Catch 22" 
made light of this insanity with his "we agreed to bomb our own bases in 
return for the Nazis buying our chocolate covered cotton".

As the Cold War intensified, Knight of Malta Joseph H. Retinger, acting on 
behalf of the Vatican and the Priory of Sion, forged ties

[CTRL] Chomsky- US Backing Israel Pushing ME To War

http://www.dawn.com/2001/08/16/int13.htm



US backing for Israel pushing ME towards war


By Noam Chomsky

LOS ANGELES: "What we feared has come true," Israeli sociologist Baruch
Kimmerling writes in Israel's leading newspaper. Jews and Palestinians are
"regressing to superstitious tribalism - war appears an unavoidable fate," an
"evil colonial" war. This prospect is likely if the US grants tacit
authorization, with grim consequences that may reverberate far beyond.

There is, of course, no symmetry between the "ethno-national groups"
regressing to tribalism. The conflict is centred in territories that have
been under harsh military occupation since 1967. The conqueror is a major
armed power, acting with massive military, economic and diplomatic support
from the global superpower. Its subjects are alone and defenceless, many
barely surviving in miserable camps.

The cruelty of the occupation has been sharply condemned by international and
Israeli human-rights groups for many years. The purpose of the terror,
economic strangulation and daily humiliation is not obscure. It was
articulated in the early years of the occupation by Moshe Dayan, one of the
Israeli leaders most sympathetic to the Palestinian plight, who advised his
Labour Party associates to tell the Palestinians that "you shall continue to
live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave."

The Oslo "peace process" changed the modalities, but not the basic concept.
Shortly before joining the Ehud Barak government, historian Shlomo Ben-Ami, a
dove in the US-Israeli spectrum, wrote that "the Oslo agreements were founded
on a neocolonialist basis." The intent was to impose on the Palestinians
"almost total dependence on Israel" in a "colonial situation" that was to be
"permanent." He soon became the architect of the latest Barak government
proposals, virtually identical to Bill Clinton's final plan.

These proposals were highly praised in US commentary; the Palestinians and
Yasser Arafat were blamed for their failure and the subsequent violence. That
presentation "was a fraud perpetrated on Israeli - and international - public
opinion," Kimmerling writes accurately. He continues that, a look at a map
suffices to show that the Clinton-Barak plans "presented to the Palestinians
impossible terms." Crucially, Israel retained "two settlement blocs that in
effect cut the West Bank into pieces." The Palestinian enclaves also are
effectively separated from the centre of Palestinian life in Al Quds; the
Gaza Strip remains isolated, its population virtually imprisoned.

Israeli settlement in the territories doubled during the years of the "peace
process," increasing under Barak, who bequeathed the new government of Ariel
Sharon "a surprising legacy," the Israeli press reported as the transition
took place early this year: "The highest number of housing starts in the
territories" since the time when Sharon supervised settlements in 1992,
before Oslo. The facts on the ground are the living reality for the desperate
population.

The nature of permanent neocolonial dependency was underscored by Israel's
High Court of Justice in November 1999 when it rejected yet another
Palestinian petition opposing further expansion of the (Jewish) city of Maale
Adumim established to the eastern sector of Al Quds, virtually partitioning
the West Bank.

The court suggested that "some good for the residents of neighbouring
(Palestinian villages) might spring from the economic and cultural
development" of the all-Jewish city. While they try to survive without water
to drink or fields to cultivate, the people whose lands have been taken can
enjoy the sight of the ample housing, green lawns, swimming pools and other
amenities of the heavily subsidized Israeli settlements.

Immediately after World War II, the Geneva Conventions were adopted to bar
repetition of Nazi crimes, including transfer of population to occupied
territories or actions that harm civilians. As a so-called high contracting
party, the US is obligated "to ensure respect" for the conventions.

With Israel alone opposed, the United Nations has repeatedly declared the
conventions applicable to the occupied territories; the US abstains from
these votes, unwilling to take a public stand in violation of fundamental
principles of international law, which require it to act to prevent
settlement and expropriation, attacks on civilians with US-supplied
helicopters, collective punishment and all other repressive measures used by
the occupying forces. Washington has continued to provide the means to
implement these practices, refusing even to allow observers who might reduce
violence and protect the victims.

For 25 years, there has been a near-unanimous international consensus on the
terms of political settlement: a full peace treaty with establishment of a
Palestinian state after Israeli withdrawal, an outcome that enjoys wide
support even within Israel. It has been blocked by Washington ever since its
veto of a Security Council

[CTRL] The Heritage Foundation Soars

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/june01berkowitz.htm



The Heritage Foundation Soars 
By Bill Berkowitz 


In early April, the Heritage Foundation announced its most ambitious 
expansion plans in its 28-year history. Thanks to the family of the late 
Thomas Johnson of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the foundation unveiled plans for 
a new 63,000 square foot building, located next to Heritage’s current 
headquarters, which will effectively double its size. 

With the Bush administration in office, the Heritage Foundation has struck 
the mother lode. By parlaying extraordinary sums of right-wing money, a 
highly developed infrastructure and the Supreme Court’s December decision, 
Heritage has risen to unprecedented political prominence. 

Despite this ascension, Edward J. Fuelner, president of the Washington, 
DC-based Heritage Foundation remains in a feisty mood. Not long after Bush’s 
inauguration he wrote a note to supporters, published in the American Reporter
, warning conservatives to be prepared because “conservative opportunity and 
liberal opposition are about to collide like warm and cold fronts on a 
summer’s day, and the probability of thunderstorms is 100 percent. This will 
be a take-no-prisoners war, and there are going to be winners and losers. 
Make no mistake about that.” 

Fuelner’s bombast seems to fly in the face of President Bush’s oft-repeated 
refrain that while there will be disagreements with Democrats over policy 
issues, the debate will be carried out amicably and without rancor. Fuelner’s 
rhetoric more accurately reflects the current climate in the nation’s 
capital. “Because the early battles are likely to foreshadow the outcome of 
the war,” Fuelner insists, “the first few months of the Bush administration 
will be critical. Conservatives must win early and decisively.” 

Well past its first 100 days, it is clear that the Bush administration has 
embarked on a program of regulation cleansing combined with an assault on 
what’s left of the social safety net. 

Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and one of the most 
influential conservative operatives, boldly and in Bushbonic style, told the 
New York Times, “There isn’t an us and them with this administration. They 
is us. We is them.” The connective tissue between the White House and 
conservatives is their relationship with Karl Rove, Bush’s “political czar.” 
According to the New York Times’ Robin Toner, “Norquist has known Mr. Rove 
for 22 years, since they met when they were both members of College 
Republicans.” Fuelner told the Times that he talks with Rove a couple of 
times a week. 

The Heritage Foundation has been working closely with the Administration. 
Church  State, the monthly magazine of Americans United for Separation of 
Church and State, reported that in early January, Rove told a group of 
right-wing leaders “that Bush had asked the Heritage Foundation…to review 
all the executive orders put in place by President Clinton during his eight 
years in office and recommend which ones should be overturned.” Donald Lambro 
of the Washington Times reported that Heritage had passed its recommendations 
on to the White House. 

During the transition period when issue-specific teams were being formed, 
Heritage staffers were involved in key decision-making positions. Toner says, 
“officials at the foundation passed on 1,200 to 1,300 names and resumes to 
the Bush administration and say they are quite pleased with the results so 
far, at the cabinet level and at the next tier.” 

According to the foundation’s website, Heritage staffers who have gone from 
from the foundation to the Bush administration include: 

-Elaine Chao: formerly Distinguished Fellow, now Secretary of Labor 
-Kay Cole James: (an African American women and a long time favorite of the 
Christian Right) former Senior Fellow, now Director of Personnel Management 
-Stephen Yates: former Senior Policy Analyst, now Deputy Assistant to the 
Vice President for National Security Affairs 
-Kris Ardizzone: former Director of U.S. Senate Relations, now Deputy 
Assistant Attorney General, Office of Policy Development 
-Sarah Youssef: former Research assistant, now Associate Director, Domestic 
Policy 
-Angela Antonelli: former Director of Economic Policy Studies, now Chief 
Financial Officer, Department of Housing and Urban Development 

Heritage policy wonks are contributing to the legislative process by 
testifying at congressional hearings on critical economic and social issues 
on a regular basis. During the last ten days in March alone, a gaggle of 
Heritage representatives testified at House and Senate hearings, including: 

-Todd Gaziano on Executive Orders and Presidential Directives before the 
House Subcommittee on Commercial and Administrative Law, March 22 
-Robert Moffit on Transcending Medicare’s Regulatory Regime before the House 
Subcommittee on Health, March 15 
-Robert Rector on The Effects of Welfare Reform before the House

[CTRL] [AL-AWDA] Here is the future of the Middle East (fwd)



Friends:

Below is a post from Bill Friend, who runs Palestine Diary. I think this is
one of the most clear assessments of the situation you are about to see. It
involves the new strategic imperatives of the US. Please read this...and
take note.

Jaffer



No, Bob, WE take out Saddam. We get to be The Knight in Shining Armour .
Saddam is still a real threat to our client states, which is the sole reason
we keep him under our thumb.   But Saddam's attempt to crush Israel (he will
fail) starts the ball rolling.  You will wind up with a five front war of a
long term nature, which cannot be sustained by Israel.
The five fronts are (1) Northern - Lebanon (2) Northeastern - Golan Heights
(3) Eastern - Jordan (Iraq breaks through here, and will cause the fall of
the Hashemites) (4) Southern - Egypt   (5) Internal - Palestinian - this
becomes the worst to control inasmuch as there really is NO Front.  This
becomes Belfast.

Eventually, the US and the West steps in, in order to maintain the stability
of what are the most important regimes in the area as far as we are
concerned - The G6 states. But in the meantime the configuration of Israel
starts to alter.We cannot allow the street in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or
any of the southern Gulf emirates to get out of hand.  The ready access to
the oil is our paramount concern, and at the current time Israel is the
major impediment.

The powers that be (that's really one word) came to the conclusion, finally,
during the Gulf War, that Plan A no longer was viable.  Plan A was
predicated on the tactic that in order to maintain control of the spice a
vanguard point was needed which was pro-European to step off from as a
convenient staging ground for a rapid deployment to the oil rich fields.
Who better to do this than the Jews, thought the Jew haters in the British
Cabinet.   Balfour solved two birds with one stone.   The Jew hater came out
smelling sweet for giving a small minority of Jews in Britain what they
wanted - their own country; and at the same time started the idea of dual
loyalties.  So hopefully, from his p.o.v. Jews would leave Britain.  As it
was he had thought there were too many Jews in Britain.  When he was PM in
1905 he managed to get passed a restrictive immigration law blocking
European Jews from entering Britain as in his own words, England had enough
Jews.  How ironic that the seminal document that Zionists hold dear is
named after a flaming Jew hater.   I have enough quotes of Balfour re. Jews
to show that this is true.

This was the main reason the Brits profferred the B.D., i.e, to control the
oil (with the French - and they made absolutely sure of that by having the
fallback Sykes-Picot agreement which remained a deep dark secret until the
overthrow of the Tsar and its revelation by the Bolsheviks).

When Saddam threatened Kuwait and then over ran it (with our tacit approval,
boy did we do a number on him!), and then we beat the drums that he was
threatening the Saudis (not really, he was pissed that the Kuwaitis were
stealing his oil through horizontal drilling.  He owed them money, they
called in their marker and he couldn't pay at the moment, so they decided to
take it out in trade) as a pretext to get rid of him.  Remember, he once was
our guy.  We gave him heavy support against his war with Iran (because
after the fall of the Shah, Iran was no longer our guy), but then he had
the nerve to try and be independent, which of course was an affront to our
control of the oil - So Saddam has to die.  Anyone who threatens our control
of the oil dies.  It is rather simple really - It's Frank Herbert's DUNE.

Now keep in mind, that all of this has absolutely nothing to do with anyone
having or not having democratic institutions.  It has everything to do with
world hegemony, power politics and realpolitik.  We really could care less
whether a foreign country is a democracy or not, or even has forms of
democratic institutions (as Israel certainly does, but it is no where near
as democratic as it pretends to be, or as its cheering section in the US
likes to present it).  All we care about is that our own citizenry is
content (which we are - Proof: Where else would people lay down real money
to go and watch American Pie 2 :-) ?) so that foreign policy can be
conducted without annoying mass protests such as occurred during Vietnam.
The lesson was learned - As long as American Troops do not die (in
significant numbers), Americans don't give a shit.  Thus (a) abolish the
draft (b) only use ground troops when absolutely necessary and besides
ancient toys such as Battleships with their 9 INCH GUNS, B-52 Strategic
Bombers known in the trade as buffies (For Big Ugly Flying Fuckers); and
AirCraft Carriers are all very sexy and give people such as Larry Hart a
really big hard on and a great orgasm.

It worked!  Anyone see any mass protests over the Gulf war? Yugoslavia?
Indonesia?  Of course not, and along with Ina's recognition of dumbing
down in his post

Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.

2001-08-16 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

   And in that dual identity lies the key to his anger--and to the rage of
   thousands of Israeli Arabs who have joined the street protests here
   in recent days.
 
  Life is tough when you're an enemy isn't it?
 J2

 BUT BUT BUT! J2, aren't these enemies one of your treasured
 non Jewish Israeli citizens!!! Aren't these enemies merely unholding
 the honored, world renowned reputation of Israel as a multicultural
 secular society where everyone has a voice??
 flw

No they are not. But there are those which are. They are Druze Arabs, and
even Israeli Arabs who are afraid to speak up for fear of getting called a
collaborator and their throats cut. There are Asians too. But the
Palestinians who want an end to Israel, whether through terror, political
means, demographics, or war, are enemies. And the people who determine that
are the Israelis.

Not outsiders. Not the US, or the Danes, or the French, or the Belgians, or
the Russians, or the Saudis.

It's called self determination. If the Palestinians would like some, they
should overthrow that stupid monarchy on the other side of the river and
establish an independent state in the Arab half of Palestine. Then they could
show their stuff. They could build a modern state with a modern infrastructure
and a modern military. Then they could go to war with Israel if they like, and
instead of killing civilians in pizza shops, they could fight with real war
toys like the Israelis do.

Now isn't that a more realistic scenario? They will NEVER get Israel back.
They need to make new plans. They don't have many options available to them.

The hard, hard fact is that they are not important enough a group for the
world's powers to risk Middle East oil for. This is realpolitik.

J2

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Re: [CTRL] You can't always get what you wan't.

In a message dated 8/16/01 5:28:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Now isn't that a more realistic scenario? They will NEVER get Israel back.

So are you agreeing that the Zionists STOLE the land from the original owners?

And that they are now acting in a manner that would make any good Nazi or
South African apartheidist blush?

Bill.

[CTRL] Animal Husbandry of a Different Nature

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/columnists/story.html?f=/stories/20010816/648161.html

August 16, 2001

Animal husbandry of a different nature

Guys who like to make the beast with two backs and six legs do it as a
conscious lifestyle choice

Mark Steyn

National Post

'There used to be a time when guy-on-guy or woman-on-woman
relationships were looked at as unnatural acts, said Robert Noel, a
San Francisco attorney, responding to allegations of sexual activity
with his dog. What concern is it to anybody if there is or isn't a
personal relationship? Mr. Noel is trying to fend off a
wrongful-death suit from the lesbian partner of his late neighbour, a
good-looking lacrosse coach whose throat was torn out by Mr. Noel's
two Presa Canarios. But he was positively insouciant in his response
to the allegation that he and one of the dogs enjoyed a personal
relationship.

And why wouldn't he be? The gay rights movement is on the last stage
of its big push, and so the question is: what's next? Just as gays
used the language of black civil rights, so Mr. Noel likened his
alleged proclivities to those of gays. If you're homosexual or
lesbian, I don't suppose you're terribly flattered by the comparison,
but then a lot of blacks didn't appreciate the principles of the civil
rights movement being appropriated by the sodomites. That's the way it
goes in a land committed to ever more expansive and inclusive
rights, as Al Gore puts it.

There's a lot of bestiality around at the moment. Hang on, let me
qualify that: in terms of actual man-and-beast action, I'd wager
there's a lot less than a hundred years ago, when an isolated
farmboy's best-looking date within a 20-mile radius was his pa's
finest Holstein. But today guys who like to make the beast with two
backs and six legs do it as a conscious lifestyle choice and, like
other identity groups, they're making a lot of noise and demanding
societal validation. In Maine, a fellow called Frank Buble, 71, was
recently sentenced to eight years for trying to crowbar his son
Phillip to death. Frank shares a house with Phillip and his, er,
partner Lady, a short-legged mixed-breed bitch, and he claims he was
driven to attack his son because he was tired of seeing him getting it
on with the dog and could no longer tolerate Phillip's lifestyle.

Phillip for his part feels he's been doubly assaulted, first by his
father and then by a legal system that refuses to acknowledge his
partner. He wrote to Justice Andrew Mead at the Piscataquis County
Superior Court saying that he would be exercising his right to speak
at the sentencing and wanted Lady to hear what he had to say. I'd
like my significant other to attend by my side if possible as she was
present in the house during the attack, though not an eyewitness to
it, thank goodness, explained Phillip. I've been informed your
personal permission is needed given that my wife is not human, being a
dog of about 36 pounds weight and very well behaved. The letter ended
with his signature and a paw print, and underneath the words Phillip
and Lady Buble.

Justice Mead denied the request, so Phillip and Lady have now come out
of the kennel and are campaigning for rights for zoo couples. Zoo
couples is the preferred term for human/non-human relationships,
bestiality carrying somewhat negative connotations. Testifying
before a legislative committee in the state capital Augusta, Phillip
said that 'Zoos' are born with a true love for animals and have a
lifelong commitment to their care. He and Lady live together as a
married couple. In the eyes of God we are truly married. Furthermore,
if it's legal for two humans to have sex and legal for two animals to
have sex, why should it be illegal for a human to have sex with an
animal? If Maine passes an anti-bestiality law, says Phillip, it will
be a disservice to zoo couples and would keep zoo couples from coming
out of the closet and drive us deeper underground. This helps no one
and would force me out of state. Hold your horses. New Hampshire,
here he comes.

How should society react to animal husbandry as practised by Mr.
Buble? Peter Singer, Princeton's Professor of Ethics, has been in the
forefront of the movement for animal rights. Taking abortion
politics to its logical next step, he believes we should be allowed to
kill infants because they're not morally equivalent to fully-fledged
persons. By contrast, animals are all proper persons, and only what he
calls our species-ism prevents us from seeing it. Therefore we
should test pharmaceuticals on disabled children and comatose adults.
Yet, although we have no right to experiment on animals, to keep them
in captivity or to eat them with tomato, lettuce and cheese on a
sesame seed bun, Professor Singer

[CTRL] US Plots To Contaminate Iraqi Drinking Water


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.theprogressive.org/0801issue/nagy0901.html

Thomas J. Nagy, progressive: Over the last two years, I've discovered
documents of the Defense Intelligence Agency proving beyond a doubt that,
contrary to the Geneva Convention, the U.S. government intentionally used
sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf
War. The United States knew the cost that civilian Iraqis, mostly children,
would pay, and it went ahead anyway. The primary document, Iraq Water
Treatment Vulnerabilities, is dated January 22, 1991. It spells out how
sanctions will prevent Iraq from supplying clean water to its citizens.
Iraq depends on importing specialized equipment and some chemicals to
purify its water supply, most of which is heavily mineralized and frequently
brackish to saline, the document states. With no domestic sources of both
water treatment replacement parts and some essential chemicals, Iraq will
continue attempts to circumvent United Nations Sanctions to import these
vital commodities. Failing to secure supplies will result in a shortage of
pure drinking water for much of the population. This could lead to increased
incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.  . . . In cold language, the
document spells out what is in store: Iraq will suffer increasing shortages
of purified water because of the lack of required chemicals and desalination
membranes. Incidences of disease, including possible epidemics, will become
probable unless the population were careful to boil water. The document
gives a timetable for the destruction of Iraq's water supplies. Iraq's
overall water treatment capability will suffer a slow decline, rather than a
precipitous halt, it says.

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[CTRL] Gun Owners Likelier to Distrust Government


-Caveat Lector-

Gun Owners Likelier to Distrust Government
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, Aug. 17, 2001

COLUMBUS, Ohio - An Ohio State University study indicates that people who distrust the 
government own guns in
greater proportion than those who expressed trust in at least one branch.

The study, published in the current issue of Social Science Quarterly, also found 
government mistrust is
widespread, not just the characteristic of a small minority.

Associate sociology professors Robert Jiobu and Timothy Curry studied data assembled 
for the General Social
Survey. The material was collected between 1988 and 1996 and included interviews with 
6,576 people.

We found that these people who don't have confidence in the government are more 
likely to own guns, Jiobu
said.

Rick Pearson, president of the Illinois State Rifle Association, said he was not 
surprised by the study
results because the government deserves citizens' distrust.

I would say this is probably historical in nature because a lot of time the federal 
government, as well as
other governments, have done things to gun owners that they haven't liked after they 
said they wouldn't do
it. Pearson cited New York as an example. They said if you register your firearms, 
they wouldn't come and
get them and then they came and got them. The same is true of California.

The problem is that though no matter what happens, you wind up with some bureaucrat 
who twists the intent of
the law.

Nearly half of those surveyed, 43.9 percent, said they had hardly any confidence in 
one or more branches of
the federal government.

Of those who said they had a great deal of faith in the government, only 23 percent 
owned a firearm, while 37
percent of those who doubted the government owned one.

The researchers said the percentages held firm even making allowances for such factors 
as political ideology,
gender, age, education, general fear of crime and whether the respondents had been 
crime victims the preceding
year.

The results also held true through the three presidential administrations spanned.

Curry suggested firearms give those who distrust government a sense of empowerment.

For some people, guns represent freedom and the ability to protect themselves, Curry 
said. Guns are seen as
a little bit of protection in an otherwise chaotic world.

Those who own guns and distrust the government may fear the government will take away 
their rights or that it
will not be able to protect them.

Jiobu said efforts to control weapons sales may have the unintended effect of 
encouraging some to stockpile
weapons.

We have to understand that for many people, the gun is an icon for evil and violence, 
while for others that
same gun is an icon for democracy and personal empowerment, Curry said. Until that 
is understood, neither
side of the debate will be able to understand how the other side can be so blind to 
the 'truth.'

Copyright 2001 by United Press International.

All rights reserved.

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Re: [CTRL] L.A. Jailed 400,000 Illegally

2001-08-16 Thread Bill Howard


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 8/16/01 2:06:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 you know Bill, i know we dont agree on much, but it wasn't until this post
i
thought you were a complete heartless asshole.

Try a day in jail, then open your mouth. 

You're correct. We don't agree. I don't need to walk a mile in someone's
shoes or do their jail time for them. But then, I won't ask you do take the
place of lab animal.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - AIG IMPLICATED IN COVERT ...

In a message dated 8/16/01 8:48:38 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:


Part II of a Multi-Part Series. To read Part I please visit www.copvcia.com

As a subscriber to the FTW newsletter I've been looking forward to this!!

Thanks for the scoop!!

And if Lehder IS free, man...we've got a STORY!!!
Sure as shit looks like he is!

Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

2001-08-16 Thread Theodor Parada, MD


-Caveat Lector-

Abortion is a billion dollar business in this country! They need a
market for this dead tissue, so why not create it using another
government subsidy. All three cell lines (endodermal,ectodermal,
mesodermal) are needed to form an organ. Contrary to what the media
would like you to believe, an individual would have to be carried to
term (fully developed) to to be able to provide the organ that is
needed ie. sacrificed for the part required. Lets give a cheer for
Mengele and the New Fourth Reich. Heil!

On 16 Aug 2001, at 13:33, Amelia wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Well, that was quick!  All of 48 hours and already they are
 demanding MORE cell lines.  Looks like some more human life has to
 be taken but not to worry as we can always blame the Pope.  He
 reads the paper, doesn't he?
 Ditto those 40 million abortions.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

In a message dated 8/16/01 8:58:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Abortion is a billion dollar business in this country! They need a
market for this dead tissue, so why not create it using another
government subsidy. All three cell lines (endodermal,ectodermal,
mesodermal) are needed to form an organ. Contrary to what the media
would like you to believe, an individual would have to be carried to
term (fully developed) to to be able to provide the organ that is
needed ie. sacrificed for the part required. Lets give a cheer for
Mengele and the New Fourth Reich. Heil!

What utter BOLLOCKS!!!
Get a grip honey...what?? You're a guy?? Then get a life, and shave that
beard!!

If it's a "billion dollar industry" why would they "need" a market for
anything?

Nah, this anti-stem cell research nonsense is nothing but the rabble yakking
about things they have no clue about, about the anti-choice NUTS whining for
the sake of whining, and about a bunch of fools talking out of turn.

For the umpteenth time- An embryo is NOT a human any more than a skin cell is
a human!

Morons!!!

Bill.

Re: [CTRL] To die for.

2001-08-16 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 Nude female soldiers new 'Zionist' weapon

 This IS a Monty Python sketch, isn't it?  Or perhaps an old Benny Hill
 routine?

 June
 ;-)

No. No. I'm afraid it's true. You know those damn Jews will do anything
to hurt poor clean living Palestinians.

You DO know that Monica Lewinsky was a Mossad agent don't you?

Joshua2

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] (no subject)

2001-08-16 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn


-Caveat Lector-

Take a look at page 10 of the 20 August issue of TIME.  It seems that our
friends in Washington have done a bait and switch.  According to this
little item, the 2,000 acres the oil companies can drill don't have to be
contiguous, and only the area of the equipment touching the ground matters.
At 10 acres per platform, the oil companies will be drilling all over the
entire park.  Those folks who depend on the game in the Alaska Wild Life
Refuge will have to find another grocery store.   Trust George, he's our
friend.  Prudy

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] The saga of Berry Seal by Nessie


-Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/44.html
Click Here: A HREF=http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/44.html;The saga of Berry
Seal | June 18, 2001 | Nessie/A
-
Thanks, Nessie.

Om
K
-
The saga of Barry Seal
The man behind the scenes


By nessie


Barry Seal could have been the biggest drug smuggler in American history,
though certain people say smuggling was only his front. Whoever he was, he
died in a hail of bullets, with George Bush Sr.'s private telephone number in
his pocket. His life, and the lives of his friends and coconspirators make a
first-rate story  like a Fleming or a le Carre creation. But truth is far
stranger than fiction.

The saga of Barry Seal has already been the stuff of several books: Partners
in Power, by Sally Denton and Richard Morris, The Secret Life of Bill Clinton,
 by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, and Compromised, by Terry Reed. A new one, Barry
and the boys: the CIA, the Mob and America's Secret History, by Daniel
Hopsicker, has just come out. It's excellent. Pick up a copy. As I never tire
of reminding you, our secret history is too vast to be learned from the
Internet alone.

Want to know who is behind the War On (Some) Drugs? Barry and the boys is a
great place to start. First of all, it's a fun and easy read. But he never
lets the story get in the way of the facts, either. He is always careful to
distinguish clearly between rumor, speculation, and fact.

As Hopsicker reveals, Seal joined David Ferrie's Civil Air Patrol unit as a
teenager. And it was there that he learned more than how to handle his stick.
Ferrie's CAP unit, you may recall, also included Lee Harvey Oswald. When New
Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison began to investigate JFK's
assassination, he turned up Ferrie almost immediately. Then Ferrie died, just
as he had lived, under very questionable circumstances.

Ferrie was, to put it mildly, a first-class oddball. His life is uniformly
described as being full of strange activity and puzzling behavior. His
assorted talents and eccentricities included being a hypnotist, medical
researcher, amateur psychologist, victim of a strange disease (alopecia,
which made him lose all his body hair), and senior pilot for Eastern Airlines
until he was fired for homosexual activity on the job. He spoke fluent
Italian and Greek. Not one, but two, seminaries had decided he was
psychologically unsuited for what he saw as his true calling, the priesthood.

At the time of Kennedy's murder, Ferrie was 45, living in New Orleans, and
well acquainted with the most notorious names linked to the assassination:
Oswald, Clay Shaw, Guy Banister, Jack Ruby, and Carlos Marcello. Garrison
believed Ferrie's role in the assassination revolved around the getaway
planes. A more than plausible case can be made that Seal flew one of these
planes. If he didn't, he certainly could have. He knew how to fly, and he
knew the right people. For all this, he could thank David Ferrie.

Ferrie, too, started young. The House Select Committee on Assassinations
investigation stated, without even a raised eyebrow, that Ferrie had become a
pilot in 1942 and then gone to work for an oil-drilling firm that had jobs in
South America. Ferrie was 23 in 1942, prime draft age in the middle of World
War II. In 1942 the oil business in Latin America was of great interest to
the Nazis, as well as to their friends and competitors. It is barely
conceivable that Ferrie was not involved with the FBI spy network there.

It was a time when you needed more than a note from your local congressperson
to evade military duty. But instead of being drafted, as the HSCA report so
blandly states, he goes to work for an oil drilling firm with interests in
South America. Another telltale sign of Ferrie's covert connections occurred
when, while just a lowly rookie pilot at Eastern, he was already known and
admired by none other than Eastern's president general Eddie Rickenbacker 
himself no slouch in these matters  who wrote the seemingly inconsequential
junior pilot a glowing letter of recommendation. This man's efforts,
Rickenbacker said, bear watching and his qualifications justify his being
used and helped whenever possible in line of duty  and even beyond.
Beyond, indeed.

The oil business has always produced more than its share of spooks. Witness
for example, George Bush. Then there was that other George, George
DeMohrenschilt, Oswald's CIA baby-sitter in Dallas. Even the great Ace of
Spies Sidney Reilly got his start by poking into the early Iranian oil
industry. The oil and intelligence connection goes back a long way. It's a
great place to learn the ropes. Seal studied at the feet of a master. He
learned his lessons well. He became first the youngest 707 captain and then
later the youngest captain of a 747 while at Howard Hughes's TWA. Seal was,
by all accounts, a crack pilot (no pun intended). But was it flying ability
alone that led to these early advancements, or was it also a case of not
what you know, but

Re: [CTRL] Godwins law

2001-08-16 Thread Tenorlove


-Caveat Lector-

There's a fellow on another list I subscribe to, everyone who disagrees
with his theories, is a Nazi. This includes Jews -- I know of 3 Jews
whom he has called Nazi and anti-Semitic. Godwin is right, but doesn't
go far enough: on a list that is not well-established (like this one),
very large (like Priory-of-Sion) or heavily moderated (like EEJH, a
Jewish history list), the Nazi sobriquet will ignite a flame war that
causes the list to fold.


--- thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think this is something this list could use:


 Godwin's Law prov.

 [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a
 comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a
 tradition
 in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and
 whoever
 mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in
 progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of
 an upper
 bound on thread length in those groups.

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Greenpeace worried by 'mystery DNA'

2001-08-16 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 08/16/2001 2:49:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 But Monsanto says the information provided by Greenpeace has not
 changed the competent authorities' conclusions of their original risk
 assessment. 

Don't you just love this phrasing--competent authorities' conclusions!
There's a real ring to it.  Reminds me of compassionate conservative.
Prudy

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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Harry-ness


-Caveat Lector-

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?24080

Thursday, August 16, 2001
JUST WILD ABOUT HARRY
Potter books: Wicked witchcraft?
New documentary claims tales lead kids to the occult
By Julie Foster
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
As kids around the world anxiously await the fall opening of Warner Bros.'
film Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, an occult expert has released a
documentary video, Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged, Making Evil Look
Innocent, claiming the Harry Potter phenomenon is incompatibile with
Christianity.

With four books of the seven-book series published since 1999, Harry
Potter's popularity has skyrocketed. The young character is the creation of
British author J.K. Rowling, who is expected to finish the fifth installment of
the series next year. Now, with the first of several feature-film adaptations of
the children's story set to open on Nov. 16, Harry Potter fever has started
heating up again.

The books made headlines in the United States in 1999, after the first Harry Potter 
installment was released stateside. Shortly thereafter, many parents and religious 
groups expressed concern that the story should not be
taken lightly as mere children's fantasy literature. Critics disapprove of the books' 
presentation of the occult as a positive, virtuous lifestyle.

To understand the controversy surrounding the books, it is necessary to review their 
content. While not all of the characters and story lines may be explored in this 
report, a few key elements should be discussed.

Set in England, the books chronicle the life of young Harry Potter, whose wizard 
parents were killed by the evil Lord Voldemort. Because Harry escaped the death curse 
of Voldemort, he was given a mark on his forehead  a
lightening bolt. On his 11th birthday, Harry receives an invitation to the Hogwarts 
School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Each of the four published books represents a year 
at Hogwarts.

Voldemort is a non-physical dark magic being who inhabits the bodies of various 
characters in the books. Perhaps most notably, Voldemort possesses Quirrell, Hogwarts' 
Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

Voldemort taught Quirrell, There is no good and evil; there is only power, and those 
too weak to seek it.

The evil lord made Quirrell his slave and could be seen on the back of the teacher's 
head, which Quirrell covered with a turban. Book one explains this phenomenon:

Where there should have been a back to Quirrels head, there was a face,
the most terrible face Harry had ever seen. It was chalk white with glaring red
eyes and slits for nostrils, like a snake.

See what I have become? the face said. Mere shadow and vapor.  I have
form only when I can share another's body  but there have always been
those willing to let me into their hearts and minds.  Unicorn blood has
strengthened me these past weeks.  Once I have the Elixir of Life, I will be
able to create a body of my own. 
Voldemort, according to Hogwarts' Headmaster Albus Dumbledore, is
looking for another body to share.  not being truly alive, he cannot be
killed. When Voldemort dispossessed Quirrell, the teacher died.

Rowling has said publicly that she intentionally created the graphic evil
characters and scenes in her wildly popular series.

I made a very conscious decision right at the beginning that I was writing
about someone evil, and I wasn't going to tell a lie. I wasn't going to pretend
that an evil person is a paper cutout and no one really gets hurt. OK, if you're
writing about evil, I think  generally you have a responsibility to show what
that means, and that's the way I'm writing them. I think they're quite, well
actually, I think they're very moral books, Rowlings told a television news
program.

Many agree with the author's premise, but critics object to the use of
witchcraft and wizardry in fighting evil, not to mention the book's graphic
depictions of evil. Even the good wizards in Harry's world cause eyebrows to
be raised in many circles. One such example is found in Headmaster
Dumbledore.

Dumbledore is the one wizard Voldemort fears. In book one, the headmaster
explains how his 666-year-old business partner Nicolas Flamel and Nicolas'
wife, Perenelle, will die. The couple awaits permission from Dumbledore to
kill themselves.

Explaining to an astonished Harry, the headmaster says, To one as young
as you, I'm sure it seems incredible, but to Nicolas and Perenelle, it really is
like going to bed after a very, very long day. After all, to the well-organized
mind, death is but the next great adventure.

There are varying degrees of opposition to the Harry Potter books, from those
who choose not to allow their own children to read the series to those who
would have the book banned. One woman, filmmaker and occult expert Caryl
Matrisciana, focuses her efforts on explaining what she believes

[CTRL] Chamish: How Things Really Work ...Again

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: Barry Chamish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:14 AM
Subject: how things work

 HOW THINGS REALLY WORK ...AGAIN

by Barry Chamish

We had hoped that Shimon Peres' seemingly irrational appointment of Carmi
Gillon as ambassador to Denmark would open up his role in the Rabin
assassination. So far, that has not happened, but it will. Instead, and
from the most unexpected source, Gillon's role in the planning and
execution of the Hebron massacre of February 1994 is being raised. Read
what Dr. Linda Efroni writes in the highly influential but staid Israeli
business daily, Globes:

Besides being head of the Shabak, we must recall that Gillon was a central
figure in the massacre at the Cave Of The Patriarchs. It was decided that 
the Shabak fell asleep at the wheel in this case but, maybe not. In either
case, the investigating committee headed by then Supreme Court President, 
Meir Shamgar, cleaned up Gillon's responsibility... Once out of service,
Gillon was taken care of with a job as chairman of the Peres Center For
Peace at a salary equal to that of a bank CEO. There  is no more
preventing discussion of the dangerous connection between Peres and the
government. As Foreign Minister today, Peres continues to take care of
Gillon. Why did he appoint this klutz with no diplomatic background and a
long history of failure to be the Danish ambassador? And why does the
government back this disastrous appointment, one which endangers Israel's 
reputation in Europe? It is more than obvious that Gillon has the
information to grasp quite a few politicians by their tender parts.

At last, the mainstream media has raised Gillon's role in the Hebron 
massacre and the likelihood that he is blackmailing Peres and other
politicians over the truth of the slaughter. The Israeli public was
informed that an extremist, Dr. Baruch Goldstein entered the mosque in
Hebron's Cave Of The Patriarchs alone and massacred 51 Arab worshippers.
But that is not the conclusion one would reach after reading the records of
the Shamgar Commission's inquiry into the event.

For one thing, no witness, Arab or Jew saw a lone shooter in the mosque.
But that's just the start. The three soldiers guarding the entrance to the
Cave complex testified that Goldstein entered at 4:45 AM carrying an M-16.
Shamgar concluded that Goldstein arrived at 5:20, carrying a Glilon assault
rifle. Goldstein entered the mosque with two soldiers. They threw grenades
and shot into the crowd, then escaped the mosque, locking the door behind
them, thus trapping Goldstein inside against the panicked mob. At this
point, an Arab on the commission, Judge Zuabi noted, Then there was a
conspiracy. Goldstein couldn't have locked the door from the outside if he
was inside. He would have needed help for that.

There is much more. Readers are advised to order the full commission
protocols from the Ministry of Justice. The sum total of eye-witness
testimonies prove that Dr. Goldstein was a patsy who did not murder anyone.

But a patsy for who? Carmi Gillon was head of the Jewish Department  of
the Shabak, based in Hebron, at the time yet somehow was not called on  by
Shamgar's commission to testify. That was easily arranged since Gillon's
brother Ilan was the court registrar who decided on the witness list.

Thanks to Peres' insane decision to appoint Gillon the Danish ambassador,
even and finally, Gillon's suspected role as planner and executioner of the
Hebron massacre is emerging in the mainstream Israeli press.

The Har Shefi Dirty Deal Revealed

We knew that Margalit Har Shefi's incredibly damaging saga was based on
some kind of filthy agreement. By insisting that she did not know that 
Amir would murder Rabin, Har Shefi set the truth back years and landed
herself in prison for a short stay. While incarcerated, her Knesset member
uncle Benny Elon said not a word about the injustice his niece was
suffering. Somehow, Har Shefi's supporters missed the significance of his 
silence.

Har Shefi's attorney was Elon's far-left brother Menachem. He planned the
legal strategy that assured Har Shefi's deceit and imprisonment. Meanwhile,
brother Benny sits on the Committee To Elect Judges. So guess what?; Thanks
to the newspaper Hatsofe, we learned that Benny's committee has decided to
appoint Menachem Elon a judge. Har Shefi's role in wrecking the truthful
search for Rabin justice has been rewarded.

However, the search continues despite her attempts to sabotage it. Recall
the previous article from this author. An eye-witness inside Ichilov
Hospital saw Peres' commanding role in the murder and small details of his
testimony are being confirmed. He claimed Prof. Gabi Barabash and
journalist Eitan Haber arrived at the hospital together, having been at the
same party. The witness was right on the money. Now, another correspondent
has provided the name of the party's host:

[CTRL] Researchers Already Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines


-Caveat Lector-

Now I can remember thinking this very same way as a teenager when
Roe v Wade and all of that was new but fortunately I kept thinking
on the matter and got beyond the simplistic solution and hollow
platitudes and TV sound-bite mantras and learned to think for
myself, at least a little bit.  I suppose any embryos convicted of
capital offenses are subject to death penalties the same as any
others.  Never said cells were 'people' for people is not the issue
for me but rather human life which does not have to equal 'people.'
I said it was human and it was alive and it is. I do not care one
bit what anyone believes I hold sacred but I do care greatly about
being forced to finance the beliefs of others.

And why are we not harvesting the organs and tissue for stem cells
from those sentenced to capital punishment the way that China does?
We might have such a surplus considering the high number of
executions here that we, too, could sell them all over the world.
Look at all those healthy, young specimens!  And the way we coerce
them into donating blood now, although a high rate of it is
contaminated--we could expand on what they are forced to donate.

As for minority babies,  wouldn't those be like the Palestinians
and be the enemy? I am paying close attention to the way this works
and learning a great deal from recent posts in this regard.   I am
rethinking this 'inclusive' business for I see that this only
applies to some and not at all to others.

 It is highly politically incorrect to even think of whites
adopting black children and they have been ripped from the adoptive
white parents arms to prevent them from 'destroying their
Blackness.'  Better to give children to Rosie and Paula for I know
of heterosexual couples who have been waiting for years, still.  Go
figure.  That is yet another racket.

I have a friend who has made two trips to China adopting two little
girls as that was far easier than adopting in this country. They
have not yet been approved in this country and one of the girls is
starting school! We much prefer to just kill unwanted children
outright or keep them as wards of the State.

The Frankenbabies should not be in laboratories in the first place,
IMHO.  I do not arrive at my beliefs from a lack of knowledge nor
do I accept simplistic solutions to complex ethical issues.  What
is simple for some is complex for others.

Now who was it that advocated the removal of the 'constraints of
morality' or was it the 'bonds of morality'?  The govt pays for
almost ALL medical research anyway.  Almost all RD is tax funded
but the drug companies reap the profits They just like us to THINK
they paid for the research. It is but another way of fleecing the
sheep, speaking of which, have NOT yet been successfully cloned for
the problem of overgrowth effects most.  The rest have not
experienced normal life spans. It would be good to address tissue
rejection before establishing new sources of tissue.

Guess I have heard all the big promises too many times. It seem
ludicrous to keep coming up with technology and treatments that are
available to only a tiny percentage of the people of this country
and not at all to most of the world where 60 percent have never
used a telephone.  The more expensive and the better treatment is
not even available to the masses who are clamoring for more.  We do
want the Elite to be cared for well for they are the only ones who
truly have access to already existing technology.
~Amelia~


- Original Message -
From: thew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell
Lines


-Caveat Lector-

on 8/16/01 2:33 PM, Amelia at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



eggs are not people
sperm are not people
cells are not people

not every fertilized egg in a woman's body actually becomes a baby

it is not a 1 to 1 correlation between zygote and birth

do we have to through every woman's menses now to see if she is
inadvertently murdering a fertilized egg? Maybe charge every
miscarriage as
manslaughter?

90% of the embryos used for this are in fertility labs and will
never, I
repeat, never be used.

I'd like to see some of these people complaining about life sacred
nature do
something about all the un-adopted minority babies out there, ban
the death
penalty, etc. Then I might believe that they find life scared.

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL

[CTRL] Scientists Claim Clinton Blocked Kennewick Man Research


-Caveat Lector-

April 18, 2001


Scientists Claim Clinton Blocked Kennewick Man Research

By William McCall
AP


Scientists who want to study the ancient skeleton known as Kennewick Man
contend the Clinton administration improperly tried to prevent their
research to avoid a messy debate over how the first inhabitants of North
America arrived.

The government allowed inexcusable contacts between White House staff and
members of five American Indian tribes who sought to bury the skeleton,
said documents filed in federal court Monday to support the scientists.

The Interior Department decided last year that the nearly complete
9,000-year-old skeleton should be given to the tribes for burial.

A spokeswoman for the Interior Department said the agency will formally
respond in court on May 17, the deadline to file a response. But officials
say they did nothing wrong.

We believe all contacts were proper and consistent with statute and
administrative practice, said spokeswoman Stephanie Hanna.

A coalition of five Northwest tribes claimed the skeleton after it was
found in 1996 along the shoreline of the Columbia River near Kennewick,
Wash. The tribes say Kennewick Man is their ancestor and the bones should
be reburied.

But eight prominent scientists from universities and the Smithsonian
Institution sued for the right to study the skeleton. The scientists say
further study of Kennewick Man could reveal clues about the first humans on
the continent.

Attorneys for the scientists say the Interior Department under President
Clinton and former Secretary Bruce Babbitt violated ethical standards,
alleging officials coached the coalition on how to plead its case.

The scientists argue that the decision to hand over the bones did not meet
requirements of the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act
because the government cannot prove the bones belong to an ancestor of any
living tribe.

Attorneys Alan Schneider and Paula Barran also say the government violated
the separation of church and state by using religious tribal beliefs to
make critical decisions.

They contend the government accepted tribes' religious beliefs as the
'truth' of past events contrary to scientific information, and started and
ended at least one consultation with prayer, conveying a message of
endorsement.

Burying the bones would violate the First Amendment, Schneider argues,
because this skeleton is like a book that should be made available for
study.

It is not for the government to determine who can read the book and what
can be done with the information that can be obtained from it, Schneider
said Wednesday.

The scientists have already argued the Interior Department violated the
National Historic Preservation Act when it covered the site where the
skeleton was found with 500 tons of rocks and soil, then planted trees and
shrubs before anthropologists could conduct further excavation


Several more related articles:

http://www.citizensalliance.org/links/pages/news/Breaking%20News/Kennewick_
Issue.htm 


 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends


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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] There are still 1,957 Americansmissing and unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.


-Caveat Lector-

UPDATE LINE: August 16, 2001


According to the Department of Defense, there are still 1,957
Americans
missing and unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.

On July 31st, the League was informed that two Americans, initially
listed
as
MIA on January 21, 1968, are now accounted for.  The remains of US
Army
Reserve Warrant Officer 2nd Class William Kimsey and his co-pilot,
a US
Marine whose family declined to publicly release his name, were
jointly
recovered in North Vietnam on January 1, 1998.

On July 19th, the League learned that five Americans whose remains
were
jointly recovered in South Vietnam were also identified.  The
remains of
one,
a KIA/BNR on October 6, 1969, were jointly recovered on November
20, 2000,
but his family requested that his name not be publicly announced.
The other
four were lost on August 3, 1967 in South Vietnam, and their
remains were
jointly recovered on June 8, 1994.  Their names are Corporal Thomas
A. Gopp,
USMC, of OH, Seaman James P. McGrath, USN, of IL, Lance Corporal
John B.
Nahan, III, USMC, of MI and Corporal Jack Wolpe, USMC, of NY.

On July 16th, the League learned that two Americans whose remains
were
jointly recovered in Laos and repatriated on February 11, 2000 are
now
accounted for. One, Major Luther A. Lono, USMC, was from WA State,
and the
NOK of the other requested that his name not be publicly announced.

The accounting for these Americans brings the number still missing
and
unaccounted for in Vietnam to 1,474, with 415 in Laos, 60 in
Cambodia and 8
in the territorial waters of the PRC.  Over 90% of the 1,957
Americans still
missing from the Vietnam War were lost in areas under Vietnam's
wartime
control.

During Secretary of State Colin Powell's July visit to Vietnam for
the Assn.
of SEA Nations conference, he had bilateral discussions with senior
officials
of all attending countries.

The Hanoi byline in Reuters coverage on July 26th stated, Powell
hails
effort to find men lost in Vietnam.  The report quotes Secretary
Powell as
stating, All of my buddies came home, even those who died.  We got
the
remains.  But for those we didn't find, there's still a longing in
the
hearts
of their family members and their fellow veterans.  The article
goes on to
state, The MIAs are still Washington's top foreign policy priority
with
Hanoi.

As previously noted, the League is confident that Bush
Administration policy
includes POW/MIA accounting as an integral issue, a problem from
the past
that still requires future actions. Such actions include a focus on
unilateral steps by Vietnam to locate and return remains, as well
as
continuing to improve the quality and effectiveness of joint field
operations.

The Bush Administration has not yet formally announced the new
Deputy
Assistant Secretary of Defense for POW/MIA Affairs; however, the
League was
informed that Mr. Jerry Jennings will soon be named.  He is highly
qualified
and in our view will be the first person with the necessary
background and
experience to hold the position.  The League looks forward to
working
closely with Mr. Jennings and other Bush Administration officials
to achieve
POW/MIA goals.

The new JTF-AF Commander, Air Force BG Steven Redmann, assumed
command from
BG Harry Axson, USA, during a July 23rd ceremony presided over by
Admiral
Dennis Blair, US Commander of Pacific Forces.  This is the first
time that
the Air Force has commanded the organization. General Redmann
recently
completed an introductory swing through Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia.
Joint
US-Lao operations began on August 9th and will continue for about
one month.

POW/MIA car-window decals are available at a cost of $20 per 100 by
sending
a check to the League office at 1001 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite
919,
Washington, DC  20036.  POW/MIA lapel pins are also available at $3
each or
2/$5.  For added information on any subject, please contact the
League's web
site at www.pow-miafamilies.org or call the national office at
202-223-6846.

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] AP: Paula Jones Sues New York Tycoon


-Caveat Lector-

Paula Jones Sues New York Tycoon

August 15, 2001 at 18:50:33 PDT


NEW YORK (AP) - Paula Jones says a colorful New York real estate tycoon
promised her riches to drop a lawsuit against President Clinton but never
showed her the money.

Resurrecting a claim that was dismissed in Dallas last year on procedural
grounds, lawyers for Jones filed a lawsuit Wednesday to force Abe
Hirschfeld to pay the $1 million he had promised publicly

Thomas F. Cohen, a lawyer who filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court,
declined to comment. Lawyer Gregory Kitterman in Little Rock, Ark., who has
represented Jones in the past, did not return a telephone message.

A spokesman for the 81-year-old real estate mogul also did not return a
call seeking comment.

The lawsuit claims Hirschfeld's public promise of $1 million was still on
the table even as Jones settled with Clinton in November 1998.

Kitterman has said Jones reached a settlement - in which Clinton offered no
apology or admission of guilt - because she thought Hirschfeld's $1 million
check was a sure thing.

Hirschfeld offered Jones a $1 million check on Oct. 31, 1998 at a news
conference where Jones kissed and praised the tycoon. Later, he seemed to
back off from the offer as he attached conditions to the payment. After the
Dallas lawsuit was filed, Hirschfeld said, I don't owe her nothing.

Jones claimed Clinton made an unwelcome sexual advance in 1991 in a Little
Rock hotel room while he was Arkansas governor and she was a state
employee. A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit against Clinton.

Since the controversy, Hirschfeld has faced his own legal problems.

He was convicted last year of second-degree criminal solicitation for
offering $150,000 to have Stanley Stahl, his real estate partner of 40
years, killed in 1997 over a business dispute. Stahl died in 1999 of
natural causes.

Hirschfeld was sentenced to one to three years in prison.



 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends


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Re: [CTRL] Researchers Alrady Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

2001-08-16 Thread Theodor Parada, MD


-Caveat Lector-

Approximately $1.6 Billion is spent on the programs each year!

On 16 Aug 2001, at 22:12, William Shannon wrote:

 In a message dated 8/16/01 8:58:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  Abortion is a billion dollar business in this country! They need a
  market for this dead tissue, so why not create it using another
  government subsidy. All three cell lines (endodermal,ectodermal,
  mesodermal) are needed to form an organ. Contrary to what the media
  would like you to believe, an individual would have to be carried to
  term (fully developed) to to be able to provide the organ that is
  needed ie. sacrificed for the part required. Lets give a cheer for
 

 What utter BOLLOCKS!!!
 Get a grip honey...what?? You're a guy?? Then get a life, and shave
 that beard!!

 If it's a billion dollar industry why would they need a market for
 anything?

A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] WSJ: Foster Footnote


-Caveat Lector-

http://interactive.wsj.com


August 16, 2001

Asides

Foster Footnote


It's fine by us if Bill Clinton tries to recoup Knopf's $10 million-plus
book advance by settling every score in sight, as Michael Tomasky suggests
in substituting for Albert Hunt nearby [included below]. Anything to keep
the pot stirring.

Given Mr. Tomasky's account of our involvement with the late Vincent Foster
Jr., however, we'd like to call attention to some remarks in our editorial
on the report on the Foster death by Special Counsel Robert Fiske. On July
5, 1994, a year after the death and with further investigations and further
scandals yet to come, we wrote: Barring some unimaginable new disclosure,
we find no reason to doubt that the former Deputy White House Counsel
committed suicide in Fort Marcy Park, as first reported. This should end
much mystery and speculation, and here Mr. Fiske has performed a public
service. Mr. Fiske's question-stilling probe, we'd note in our own behalf,
is precisely what we suggested immediately after Mr. Foster's death.

Also, [D]epression is a disease. It is not caused by travel office
scandals, press criticisms or the normal stress of public life. It is
caused by biochemical changes in the brain, and while these are poorly
understood they are treatable. When we wrote that if Mr. Foster's death had
purely personal roots we would join the mourning, we had in mind that
posthumously he might do for depression what Betty Ford did for
alcoholism.

- -

August 16,
2001 --
--


Commentary

Clamoring for Candor

By Michael Tomasky, a political columnist for New York magazine.

The New York Times, editorializing recently on Bill Clinton's $10 million
book deal, observed that his periodic attempts to explain what he actually
did came up far from satisfactory. It asserted that the one thing that
would be most helpful now, to all of us, is candor. You can guess that the
explanations the Times despaired of, and the candor it demanded, did not
have to do with the condition in which Mr. Clinton left the nation's
federal fish hatcheries.

I'd also like to cast my ballot for candor but of a different sort than the
Times intended. There are quite a few topics on which I'd love to see Mr.
Clinton give his candid, post-incumbency opinion. And they do not have to
do with a certain former intern and current purveyor of handbags.

I'd like to know what he really thinks of, say, the New York Times
editorial page. In 1998, the page's then-editor, Howell Raines,
defenestrated a noble tradition of supporting due process rights and
instead argued that the world-wide release of Mr. Clinton's
un-cross-examined, videotaped testimony before Kenneth Starr's grand jury
was an event [that] has served a healthy civic purpose. I'd savor knowing
what Mr. Clinton thought when he read that.

And while on the topic of editorial pages, it would probably be remiss of
me, for politeness' sake, to gloss over the stance of this newspaper's
editorial page with respect to the suicide of Vincent Foster. In a note
written before he died, Foster said: The WSJ editors lie without
consequence. Then, after Foster's body was found, the Journal demanded an
investigation to lift the cloud of mystery so that Foster could be
appropriately mourned. I can't recall having seen Foster appropriately
mourned on these pages. Love to get Mr. Clinton's take on that.

[link to] Foster Footnote [see above]

Just one more: Virtually everyone seems to agree now that Louis B. Freeh
bumbled his way through his years as director of the FBI. But back when Mr.
Freeh was pushing former Attorney General Janet Reno to name an independent
counsel on Democratic fund-raising, and when undisclosed law enforcement
officials continued to leak internal memos to keep up the pressure, the
general opinion of Mr. Freeh in Washington was, as you might guess, much
higher. A candid passage from Mr. Clinton on his FBI director is something
I'd find very interesting.

In addition to hearing Mr. Clinton's opinions of the harlequinade of
haters, harpies and hustlers that he managed to stare down for eight
doleful years, I'd like to read, for example, about how he massaged the
economy. Did he even come close to getting any Republican senators to vote
for the 1993 budget reconciliation, the bill generally credited with
sparking the economic turnaround? I'd like to read his account of Northern
Ireland, Bosnia and the Middle East -- all places where success rode
alongside failure. And what about politics inside the White House? I've
never lost my curiosity about why he and our new senator here in New York
brushed off their old friend Lani Guinier so quickly, and whether it's true
that they still haven't called her. So put me down as totally in the candor
camp.

They say that $10 million (and it may be more) is one heapin' helpin' a'
nickels, and that there's only one way for him to earn it back for his

Re: [CTRL] Researchers Already Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

Title: Re: [CTRL] Researchers Already Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error. Justice
Robert H. Jackson--

NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

From: Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:08:13 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Researchers Already Whining for MORE Stem Cell Lines

-Caveat Lector-

Now I can remember thinking this very same way as a teenager when
Roe v Wade and all of that was new but fortunately I kept thinking
on the matter and got beyond the simplistic solution and hollow
platitudes and TV sound-bite mantras and learned to think for
myself, at least a little bit. I suppose any embryos convicted of
capital offenses are subject to death penalties the same as any
others. Never said cells were 'people' for people is not the issue
for me but rather human life which does not have to equal 'people.'
I said it was human and it was alive and it is. I do not care one
bit what anyone believes I hold sacred but I do care greatly about
being forced to finance the beliefs of others.

I also think for myself
we just come to different conclusions

And why are we not harvesting the organs and tissue for stem cells
from those sentenced to capital punishment the way that China does?
We might have such a surplus considering the high number of
executions here that we, too, could sell them all over the world.
Look at all those healthy, young specimens! And the way we coerce
them into donating blood now, although a high rate of it is
contaminated--we could expand on what they are forced to donate.

Are you sure you want to hold up china as an example how to behave?

are you saying a collection of 100 odd undifferentiated cells has more rights than someone in prison?

right to life applies to blobs of protoplasm that you need a microscope to see, but not to people who commit crimes?

do you see a contradiction , the very one I mentioned, that you are railing about now?
(just ion case you forgot - here it is again)

I'd like to see some of these people complaining about life sacred
nature do
something about all the un-adopted minority babies out there, ban
the death
penalty, etc. Then I might believe that they find life scared.

As for minority babies, wouldn't those be like the Palestinians
and be the enemy? I am paying close attention to the way this works
and learning a great deal from recent posts in this regard. I am
rethinking this 'inclusive' business for I see that this only
applies to some and not at all to others.

I think you confuse me with someone else - I never said anything about enemies, and I certainly would not define them by race if I had.

It is highly politically incorrect to even think of whites
adopting black children and they have been ripped from the adoptive
white parents arms to prevent them from 'destroying their
Blackness.' Better to give children to Rosie and Paula for I know
of heterosexual couples who have been waiting for years, still. Go
figure. That is yet another racket.

yes there are stupid racist blacks as well as stupid racist whites, as well as stupid homophobes. What's your point?

The truth of the matter is that white children are snapped up so quickly there is a black market for them, while black, Hispanic, and Asian kids sit unadopted. This is a fact, due to stupid people picking children by the color of their skin, as if it were upholstery for a couch.

I have a friend who has made two trips to China adopting two little
girls as that was far easier than adopting in this country. They
have not yet been approved in this country and one of the girls is
starting school! We much prefer to just kill unwanted children
outright or keep them as wards of the State.

The Frankenbabies should not be in laboratories in the first place,
IMHO. I do not arrive at my beliefs from a lack of knowledge nor
do I accept simplistic solutions to complex ethical issues. What
is simple for some is complex for others.

so now infertile couples shouldn't be allowed to have fertility treatments. I guess god didn't want them to have children, eh? and who are we to argue with the great gas cloud?

Now who was it that advocated the removal of the 'constraints of
morality' or was it the 'bonds of morality'? The govt pays for
almost ALL medical research anyway. Almost all RD is tax funded
but the drug companies reap the profits They just like us to THINK
they paid for the research. It is but another way of fleecing the
sheep, speaking of which, have NOT yet been successfully cloned for
the problem of overgrowth effects

Re: [CTRL] Abortion Cams Coming to A Station Near You