[CTRL] Perjury and the vice president
Washington Times-EDITORIAL June 8, 2000 Perjury and the vice president For two and a half years, Attorney General Janet Reno has obstinately refused to disclose several internal Justice Department documents and memorandums relating to the department's investigation of campaign-finance abuses during the 1996 presidential election. For years, Justice has argued that publicly disclosing the memos would provide defendants with a road map of the task force's investigation. On Wednesday, the House Government Reform Committee publicly released numerous internal documents, including memos written by former task force chief Charles LaBella and FBI Director Louis Freeh strongly arguing that the law compelled Miss Reno to seek the appointment of an independent counsel to investigate President Clinton, Vice President Al Gore and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, among others. It immediately became clear why Miss Reno has refused to disclose these documents. Declaring that the documents "expose the bankruptcy of this investigation," Rep. Dan Burton, the committee chairman, conveyed the exasperation that Messrs. Freeh and LaBella have felt for years, noting, "If this is a road map, it's a road map of a car going around in circles." The first of the controversial documents was a Nov. 24, 1997, memo written by Mr. Freeh to Miss Reno, who had to decide within the next 10 days whether Mr. Gore's federally regulated hard-money fund-raising solicitations from the White House should be investigated by an independent counsel. The previous March, Miss Reno absolved Mr. Gore of any guilt on the basis of Mr. Gore's assertion that only unregulated soft money had been raised. In September 1997, however, newspaper reports disclosed that Mr. Gore had in fact raised substantial sums of hard money for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) from his White House office. Mr. Gore subsequently claimed he did not know hard money was being raised. In his Nov. 24, 1997, memo, Mr. Freeh argued: "In the face of compelling evidence that the vice president was a very active, sophisticated fund-raiser who knew exactly what he was doing, his own exculpatory statements must not be given undue weight." Indeed, Mr. Freeh warned Miss Reno that the Justice Department was ignoring "reliable evidence" that "contradicted" Mr. Gore's statements. Miss Reno ignored Mr. Freeh's recommendation to seek an independent counsel. In July 1998, Mr. LaBella, who had been selected by Miss Reno in 1997 to head the task force after it had become mired in chaos, sent his 94-page memo to Miss Reno arguing that the law compelled her to seek an independent counsel to investigate Mr. Gore, the president, the first lady and Deputy White House Chief of Staff Harold Ickes, whom Mr. LaBella described as a "Svengali, assuming power with the imprimatur of the president to authorize DNC and Clinton/Gore '96 expenditures." Noting that Mr. Gore had received a series of memos from Mr. Ickes and attended several meetings, all of which discussed the status of the DNC's hard-money accounts, Mr. LaBella wrote, "Curiously, though renowned as a policy wonk, the vice president claims he did not read the memos and cannot recall the meetings." Accusing the Justice Department of "gamesmanship" and "contortions" to avoid seeking the appointment of an independent counsel, Mr. LaBella described his Justice Department superiors as "intellectually dishonest." Miss Reno ignored the advice of her own hand-picked task force chief. The following month, however, news reports revealed that a potentially incriminating Democratic fund-raising memo had surfaced. The memo, which served as the talking points for a Nov. 21, 1995, White House fund-raising meeting attended by Mr. Gore, contained numerous hand-written notations by David Strauss, Mr. Gore's then-deputy chief of staff. Mr. Strauss's notes referred to the requirement that the DNC's media fund must finance its so-called issue ads according to a "65 percent soft/35 percent hard" split. And Mr. Strauss's notations defined soft money, in terms of contributions to political parties, as "corporate or anything over $20K from an individual." Thus, the first $20,000 that Mr. Gore raised for the DNC from individuals would be, by definition, hard money. This was important because unregulated soft money was easy to raise, but highly restricted hard money was not. The difficult part would be raising the hard money component (35 percent) of the media fund. Mr. Strauss also noted how eager Mr. Gore was to make the solicitations: "VP: 'Is it possible to do a reallocation for me to take more of the events and the calls?'" and "VP: "Count me in on the calls.'" Several days after the memo with Mr. Strauss' notations surfaced, Miss Reno initiated another 90-day preliminary inquiry to determine whether an independent counsel should be appointed to investigate Mr. Gore for perjury, among other things. Miss Reno received
Re: [CTRL] Perjury and the vice president
FYI MICHAEL SPITZER wrote: Washington Times-EDITORIAL June 8, 2000 Perjury and the vice president For two and a half years, Attorney General Janet Reno has obstinately refused to disclose several internal Justice Department documents and memorandums relating to the department's investigation of campaign-finance abuses during the 1996 presidential election. For years, Justice has argued that publicly disclosing the memos would provide defendants with a road map of the task force's investigation. On Wednesday, the House Government Reform Committee publicly released numerous internal documents, including memos written by former task force chief Charles LaBella and FBI Director Louis Freeh strongly arguing that the law compelled Miss Reno to seek the appointment of an independent counsel to investigate President Clinton, Vice President Al Gore and first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, among others. It immediately became clear why Miss Reno has refused to disclose these documents. Declaring that the documents "expose the bankruptcy of this investigation," Rep. Dan Burton, the committee chairman, conveyed the exasperation that Messrs. Freeh and LaBella have felt for years, noting, "If this is a road map, it's a road map of a car going around in circles." The first of the controversial documents was a Nov. 24, 1997, memo written by Mr. Freeh to Miss Reno, who had to decide within the next 10 days whether Mr. Gore's federally regulated hard-money fund-raising solicitations from the White House should be investigated by an independent counsel. The previous March, Miss Reno absolved Mr. Gore of any guilt on the basis of Mr. Gore's assertion that only unregulated soft money had been raised. In September 1997, however, newspaper reports disclosed that Mr. Gore had in fact raised substantial sums of hard money for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) from his White House office. Mr. Gore subsequently claimed he did not know hard money was being raised. In his Nov. 24, 1997, memo, Mr. Freeh argued: "In the face of compelling evidence that the vice president was a very active, sophisticated fund-raiser who knew exactly what he was doing, his own exculpatory statements must not be given undue weight." Indeed, Mr. Freeh warned Miss Reno that the Justice Department was ignoring "reliable evidence" that "contradicted" Mr. Gore's statements. Miss Reno ignored Mr. Freeh's recommendation to seek an independent counsel. In July 1998, Mr. LaBella, who had been selected by Miss Reno in 1997 to head the task force after it had become mired in chaos, sent his 94-page memo to Miss Reno arguing that the law compelled her to seek an independent counsel to investigate Mr. Gore, the president, the first lady and Deputy White House Chief of Staff Harold Ickes, whom Mr. LaBella described as a "Svengali, assuming power with the imprimatur of the president to authorize DNC and Clinton/Gore '96 expenditures." Noting that Mr. Gore had received a series of memos from Mr. Ickes and attended several meetings, all of which discussed the status of the DNC's hard-money accounts, Mr. LaBella wrote, "Curiously, though renowned as a policy wonk, the vice president claims he did not read the memos and cannot recall the meetings." Accusing the Justice Department of "gamesmanship" and "contortions" to avoid seeking the appointment of an independent counsel, Mr. LaBella described his Justice Department superiors as "intellectually dishonest." Miss Reno ignored the advice of her own hand-picked task force chief. The following month, however, news reports revealed that a potentially incriminating Democratic fund-raising memo had surfaced. The memo, which served as the talking points for a Nov. 21, 1995, White House fund-raising meeting attended by Mr. Gore, contained numerous hand-written notations by David Strauss, Mr. Gore's then-deputy chief of staff. Mr. Strauss's notes referred to the requirement that the DNC's media fund must finance its so-called issue ads according to a "65 percent soft/35 percent hard" split. And Mr. Strauss's notations defined soft money, in terms of contributions to political parties, as "corporate or anything over $20K from an individual." Thus, the first $20,000 that Mr. Gore raised for the DNC from individuals would be, by definition, hard money. This was important because unregulated soft money was easy to raise, but highly restricted hard money was not. The difficult part would be raising the hard money component (35 percent) of the media fund. Mr. Strauss also noted how eager Mr. Gore was to make the solicitations: "VP: 'Is it possible to do a reallocation for me to take more of the events and the calls?'" and "VP: "Count me in on the calls.'" Several days after the memo with Mr. Strauss' notations surfaced, Miss Reno initiated another 90-day preliminary inquiry to determine whether an
[CTRL] Perjury charges at White House?
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a prelude to war! -- -- ALL THE PRESIDENT'S SCANDALS Perjury charges at White House? Congressional panel may hammer Clinton officials in e-mail probe -- -- By Paul Sperry © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com WASHINGTON -- A House committee may send criminal referrals for perjury to the Justice Department on some witnesses who testified last week about missing White House e-mail, WorldNetDaily has learned. Several of them made statements that grossly contradict the accounts of other witnesses and may have been designed to mislead committee investigators who are looking into possible obstruction of justice by the White House. "We are looking at the transcripts, we are going to review the tapes, and we may prepare criminal referrals for perjury on certain folks," said House Government Reform Committee spokesman Mark Corallo. A former White House official swore March 23 that she never made threats to computer contractors, who discovered in 1998 that the White House failed to archive more than two years of e-mail sent to White House officials, including top aides to the president and first lady. The e-mail was never searched for compliance with subpoenas issued by the independent counsel and congressional investigators. But three of the Northrop Grumman contractors testified that the official, Laura Crabtree Callahan, threatened them with jail if they talked about the problem, which they called "Project X" because of all the secrecy surrounding it. They said she made the threats in a 1998 meeting in her office. Mark Lindsay, a high-ranking White House official, claimed in his testimony that he made no threats, either -- though he also said he could not recall the meeting with contractors. "Lindsay couldn't recall squat when it came to the meeting," Corallo said. Yet all five e-mail contractors recalled details of the meeting on the morning of June 15, 1998, specifically Lindsay and Callahan ordering them to keep other workers and even their Northrop Grumman bosses in the dark about the missing e-mail. They were also told not to talk to their spouses. What's more, they told House investigators in interviews before the hearing that they were instructed to write down as little as possible about Project X and not to e-mail anything about it. They were even banned from using networked White House computers. In a separate meeting with Lindsay, a Clinton political appointee, the contractors' program manager, Steve Hawkins, testified that he felt "threatened" by Lindsay "the whole meeting." "I unequivocally deny that I threatened anyone regarding disclosure of the e-mail situation," Lindsay said under oath. The threats are key because, if true, they show an intent to obstruct justice through intimidation. "We may have to call several people back to explain some things," Corallo said. Those witnesses include a contractor, who may have held back information from the committee. Robert Haas, tasked in 1998 with finding some of the lost e-mail, denied under oath searching for any e-mail other than ones sent by Monica Lewinsky from the Pentagon. But two other White House computer workers said Haas told them he stumbled onto e-mail relevant to other investigations. "You've got Betty Lambuth and (Sheryl) Hall both saying that Haas told them that not only was there Monica stuff, but there was campaign finance and (Commerce Department) trade missions and all sorts of other stuff in there," Corallo said. In pre-interviews with investigators, Haas said he could not recall all the names of the White House e-mail users whose files he checked. Investigators suspect he knows a lot more about what's in the unarchived e-mail server than he's letting on. Haas is still working as a contractor in the White House. Also, it turns out that Haas was less than forthcoming in answering questions from committee chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind. He asked Haas about a so-called "Zip" computer disk for massive storage of files. Haas swore he didn't have one, when in fact he did. But Burton used the word "drive" rather than "disk," allowing Haas to technically be safe in denying it. Whereas Haas may have split hairs to hold back information, Callahan issued categorical denials. In the June 1998 meeting, Lindsay joined in by speakerphone. When he hung up, Haas asked Callahan what would happen if he mentioned Project X to someone. She replied that there would be "a jail cell with your name on it," Haas recalled her saying. Contractors told investigators in earlier interviews that Callahan then asked each person in the room, one by one, if they understood the consequences of speaking out about the problem. Lambuth testified she remembered the threat. So did contractor
Re: [CTRL] Perjury charges at White House?
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 03/30/2000 6:43:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A former White House official swore March 23 that she never made threats to computer contractors, who discovered in 1998 that the White House failed to archive more than two years of e-mail sent to White House officials, including top aides to the president and first lady. The e-mail was never searched for compliance with subpoenas issued by the independent counsel and congressional investigators. But three of the Northrop Grumman contractors testified that the official, Laura Crabtree Callahan, threatened them with jail if they talked about the problem, which they called "Project X" because of all the secrecy surrounding it. They said she made the threats in a 1998 meeting in her office. I watching the outcome of this matter, since I distinctly recall being told that if I discussed any of the commander's or the organization's business outside the offices in which I worked, it was grounds for dismissal (or at least transfer to a less responsible job). Maybe the Government owes me a million or two, or maybe the Republican Party's more affluent friends will buy me a BMW or something. I'm too old to want a nose job. Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/19/98 11:16:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My recollection on the reports when the story broke a few years ago was that PJ had requested an appointment with Clinton, telling the state cop who apparently arranged such matters that she wanted to let Clinton know that she admired him and was available. Clinton, like some dumb college student full of himself, shocked her by exposing himself. He had more attractive alternatives and did not hesitate to alienate PJ in order to have a little chuckle. Where did you see these reports. I missed them entirely. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/18/98 11:14:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now why in the world would Paula Jones have gone up to that hotel room in the first place? Was she flattered to be asked? Would she have been more amenable to the assignation if he had been a bit less "abrupt"? Hey, you never know. I've always thought that if it happened as she said, Clinton was looking for a woman, and the cops (who always know who the goodtime girls are (both professional and amateur) asked Paula if she would. She said yes, and they escorted her to the door. Paula, it turns out, doesn't indulge in the particular sex act that is requested. Hence, the reported response. But can't you just hear the handlers working this matter while looking for a way to get Clinton. "Oh, that's what he likes. Have we got a babe for him"! Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On 17 Dec 98 , KA wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sexual harassment IS a crime. I don't think asking is a crime? Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority. Gee, June-- My Mom was a pretty young secretary at a fancy celebrity club and my Dad was an older "celebrity" when they met. Guess my Dad committed a crimeand here I am! Always thought there was something fishy about the whole situation, although, for a time there, my Mom thought she had gotten a real good deal! Actually, it was their greatest hope that I would do the same thing--get a job as a young clerk and marry an important, wealthy executive. Lots of people did it in the 40s and 50s. Needless to say, I was a great disappointment. I take it you favor a strict caste system. Would you say that "The Nanny" portrays a criminal situation? sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- Did anyone notice that the "civil rights" settlement was gained once the Nose job had healed? AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: Gerald Harp [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Re: [CTRL] Perjury : Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 8:48 PM : : -Caveat Lector- : : In a message dated 12/17/98 7:09:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, : [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : : I don't care if she pranced into the Oval Office stark naked and threw : herself on him : : Isn't it a little overboard to believe that every consensual illicit affair : between adults is a case of sexual harassment? : : DECLARATION DISCLAIMER : == : CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic : screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters : and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright : frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects : spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL : gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; : be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and : nazi's need not apply. : : Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. : : : To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- Are you off your meds again, Chris?? Barb At 04:18 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Perhaps *you* should take your own advice. i will take my own advice. you seem to be the penultimate narcissist, no one can touch you. it would be adding hominem to suggest that the real red herring is the one in your underpants so i won't, much. you will let me know if you have any more advice for me, won't you? hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha chris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote: I take it you favor a strict caste system. Would you say that "The Nanny" portrays a criminal situation? Potentially. Are you saying your parents situation equates to the Clinton/Lewinsky matter? Did your Mom lap dance with a cigar while your father kept an important business meeting waiting as he watched your Mom's performance? What sort of performance reviews did your Mom get from your Dad while she was dating him? How did her coworkers feel about it, if they were passed over for promotion, or at the very least got lesser performance reviews than your Mom, solely due to your mother enjoying a cozy relationship with your eventual Dad? Once again, you know very well what the difference is, but refuse to recognize it, or are deliberately obfuscating matters... June ! _ _ _ _ _ _` __ _ _ _ |_ . _ _ _ | -~*~- _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_) (_|| (/_(/_ | || )(_|/_) o /!\_| _| /%;@\ o/@,%\o /%;`@,\ o/@'%',\o '^^^M^^^` www.xs4all.nl/~klr *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Gerald Harp wrote: Isn't it a little overboard to believe that every consensual illicit affair between adults is a case of sexual harassment? Ask the other people in the office who are passed over for promotion, people who have the experience and qualifications for the job, while the young chippy who lapdances for the boss gets the promotion... Or the coworkers who are expected to be at work on time, not come back late from lunch, and at least leave work on time, if not put in overtime, while the babe who's blowing the boss gets away with coming in late, taking long lunches, leaving work early, taking excessive time off, etc. etc. June ! _ _ _ _ _ _` __ _ _ _ |_ . _ _ _ | -~*~- _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_) (_|| (/_(/_ | || )(_|/_) o /!\_| _| /%;@\ o/@,%\o /%;`@,\ o/@'%',\o '^^^M^^^` www.xs4all.nl/~klr *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 7:11:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority. Man, when I think of the millions I could have made--the executives I could have brought down. There it was--the opportunity for power and money--even fame--and I missed the boat entirely. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Sno0wl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Perjury -Caveat Lector- On 17 Dec 98 , KA wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sexual harassment IS a crime. I don't think asking is a crime? Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority. Gee, June-- My Mom was a pretty young secretary at a fancy celebrity club and my Dad was an older "celebrity" when they met. Guess my Dad committed a crimeand here I am! Always thought there was something fishy about the whole situation, although, for a time there, my Mom thought she had gotten a real good deal! Actually, it was their greatest hope that I would do the same thing--get a job as a young clerk and marry an important, wealthy executive. Lots of people did it in the 40s and 50s. Needless to say, I was a great disappointment. I take it you favor a strict caste system. Would you say that "The Nanny" portrays a criminal situation? sno0wl snoOwl, This sounds like a very romantic situation for both of your parents. One of the big differences is that your mother was not employed by your father - he was a client of the club. Hilary DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Together We Create Heaven on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Come join exploration - a discussion list dedicated to keeping up-to-date on new technologies, advancements in medicine, environmental concerns, 'conspiracy theories' and, of course, UFO stuff. Discussion is encouraged. Bashing and soapboxing will get you bounced off the list. To subscribe to exploration go to: http:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Moderator: Hilary A. Thomas DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Or the coworkers who are expected to be at work on time, not come back late from lunch, and at least leave work on time, if not put in overtime, while the babe who's blowing the boss gets away with coming in late, taking long lunches, leaving work early, taking excessive time off, etc. etc. June seems like sour grapes to me june. maybe you ought to get in on some of the action. sounds like you have been missing out on some benefits. go out here and get some of yours. it is, after all, the american way. chris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On 18 Dec 98 , Hilary wrote: -Caveat Lector- On 17 Dec 98 , KA wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sexual harassment IS a crime. I don't think asking is a crime? Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority. Gee, June-- My Mom was a pretty young secretary at a fancy celebrity club and my Dad was an older "celebrity" when they met. Guess my Dad committed a crimeand here I am! Always thought there was something fishy about the whole situation, although, for a time there, my Mom thought she had gotten a real good deal! Actually, it was their greatest hope that I would do the same thing--get a job as a young clerk and marry an important, wealthy executive. Lots of people did it in the 40s and 50s. Needless to say, I was a great disappointment. I take it you favor a strict caste system. Would you say that "The Nanny" portrays a criminal situation? sno0wl snoOwl, This sounds like a very romantic situation for both of your parents. One of the big differences is that your mother was not employed by your father - he was a client of the club. No, he was a member--not a client--of a dues-paying club. So, in a sense, she was his employee. However, when this worked out well, it was considered "romantic" and highly advantageous for whoever had the most to gain. In later years, when she went back to work, she often boasted of her ability to get her boss's "attention." And I'm sure, for her generation, that response was not uncommon. It's hard to imagine this has changed much even today--and it is not always easy to draw the line between desired attention and sexual harassment. I once left a job when I was fresh out of college because my male supervisor was supercritical of everything I did. It was very strange because I sensed his motivation stemmed from his attraction to me, which, for whatever reason, made him very uncomfortable. But his need to make me uncomfortable and to humiliate me became absolutely intolerable. At the time, there was no way to address it. He would simply have attacked my "performance," no one would have questioned him, and I would have had no defence. I went from there (a rather prestigious publishing house) to waiting tables at a very lively hotspot coffeeshop, where the patrons and staff flirted outrageously. But because there was no real threat of "unwanted" attention, it was lots of harmless fun. Now why in the world would Paula Jones have gone up to that hotel room in the first place? Was she flattered to be asked? Would she have been more amenable to the assignation if he had been a bit less "abrupt"? Hey, you never know. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 1:53:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sexual harassment IS a crime. I don't think asking is a crime? And if, "okay honey, I wouldn't want you to do anything you didn't want to do." is harrassment, then I ought to sue the estates of the guys that were after my teenage body. Wow. the opportunities for great wealth I missed. They were not half as nice about getting "no" for an answer. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Bull! He was sworn to give truthful testimony in a sexual harassment case...sexual harassment IS a crime... E Mael wrote: it could certainly be said that monica sexually harassed him into their sex acts. it might do well for you to think about your posts before jetting them off for all to see, without any thought as to what you are actually saying. MJ: sexual harassment noun Unwanted and offensive sexual advances or sexually derogatory or discriminatory remarks, as those made by an employer to an employee. The case was Ms. Jones' ... and has NOTHING to do with your red herring. Perhaps *you* should take your own advice. Regard$, --MJ ... where corruption and public crimes are not carefully opposed, and severely punished, neither liberty nor security can possibly subsist. -- Cato's Letters (1721) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, E Mael wrote: it could certainly be said that monica sexually harassed him into their sex acts. How? Did she hold a gun to Bubba's head and force him to go down on her? I don't care if she pranced into the Oval Office stark naked and threw herself on him -- he, as a man more than twice her age, he as a married man, he as her employer, should have just said "Thank you Miss Lewinsky, I find your interest flattering, but inappropriate...", and escorted her out the door...and immediately seen to it that she was transferred elsewhere, where they would not have contact with each other... If she indeed DID stalk him, then he should have had her fired, and gotten a restraining order against her... it might do well for you to think about your posts before jetting them off for all to see, without any thought as to what you are actually saying. Just because YOU are thoughtless, doesn't mean the rest of us are. Talk about not thinking before posting, I suggest you reread YOUR post, perhaps it will dawn on you just how preposterous and ridiculous it is... June *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sexual harassment IS a crime. I don't think asking is a crime? Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority. June *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Perhaps *you* should take your own advice. i will take my own advice. you seem to be the penultimate narcissist, no one can touch you. it would be adding hominem to suggest that the real red herring is the one in your underpants so i won't, much. you will let me know if you have any more advice for me, won't you? hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha chris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 7:09:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't care if she pranced into the Oval Office stark naked and threw herself on him Isn't it a little overboard to believe that every consensual illicit affair between adults is a case of sexual harassment? DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- SnoOwl strikes me as a real sincere conspiracy investigator . . . just like Dan Rather or Ted Koppel is. Alan Dershowitz revealed on Geraldo the other night that the reason the left must save Clinton is to thwart the pro-lifers, the Christian fundamentalists, etc. -- whom he called the forces of evil! -- so that they do not takeover the country. SnoOwl is obviously a Dershowitz soul-mate, as are several others on this list. They, like Dershowitz, do not seem to be sincere debaters, but only bent on calling "white" "black" and "black" "white" the impeachment of Clinton will tarnish EVERYTHING the man has done --- that's why the left i frantic, that's why it was worth dropping their mask to bomb Iraq now --- how many Americans will catch on? Every citizen who is an AMERICAN citizen first, as opposed to an Israeli citizen first, should begin to wonder why all those who want to save the degenerate Clinton also support the wanton, war-mongering attack on Iraq. This is the first time we have seen a major prolonged attack on a sovereign nation who was not already attacking somebody else. We have lost control of our country, and you don't have to look into shadowy, mysterious organizations to see who now runs it. It's on your TV every hour, 24 hours a day when an event like this is on --- those working with AIPAC, the evil B'nai B'rith, and the Isreali lobby. It's now out in the open for everyone to see. It is necessary that we have a Christian, dignified, but vigorous attitude as we move to take back our country like the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, and not fall for unjust reactions to unjust aggression such as was overseen by the evil Adolph Hitler -- who really has turned out to be the best propaganda weapon that anti-Christ Jewry ever had. Jim Condit Jr. On Wednesday, December 16, 1998 10:44 PM, M. A. Johnson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- MJ: Reading through this tripe, the consideration of a 'mirror' view regarding the Democratic desire to SAVE an accused perjurer who has abused his power and his office 'turned' on every word. Sno0wl wrote: This "accused perjurer" was accused of saying that he was never alone with a woman when, in fact, he was alone with her. Being alone with the woman was not, in itself, a crime. MJ: Correct, but LYING about this under oath in an effort to thwart culpability in a civil suit most certainly is ... as well as being in conflict with a President's oath of office. Sno0wl wrote: This "accused perjurer" is accused of saying that he never had "sexual relations" with a certain woman, when in fact he did have sexual relations of a sort. Having sexual relations with the woman was not a crime. MJ: Did you investigate the many laws regarding sodomy within the nation's capitol? LYING about this under oath in an effort to thwart culpability in a civil suit most certainly is ... as well as being in conflict with a President's oath of office. Sno0wl wrote: He is accused of perjury in relation to matters which do not, in any way, relate to criminal acts. MJ: The perjury itself is a criminal act. No mention of the abuses of office and power utilized to the goal of thwarting culpability in that civil manner? Afterall, Mr. Nixon was pursued for 'covering up' a crime he did not commit as compared to Clinton's desire to do the same for his OWN crimes. Sno0wl wrote: Many of the most educated people in our nation, including distinguished legal scholars and prosecutors who participated in the Iran-Contra hearings, cannot believe that Clinton is being impeached over these issues. Ken Starr's own ethical advisor has quit over these issues. However, all we hear on the news is what the ruthless, relentless, vengeful Republican members of the Judiciary Committee think, do, and say. MJ: Certainly one is learned enough to 'wade' through the BS and locate primary sourcing ... establishing an opinion for ones self of the FACTS. Hamilton, Federalist Number 65: A well-constituted court for the trial of impeachments is an object not more to be desired than difficult to be obtained in a government wholly elective. The subjects of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself. The prosecution of them, for this reason, will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or on the other;
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote: He is accused of perjury in relation to matters which do not, in any way, relate to criminal acts. Bull! He was sworn to give truthful testimony in a sexual harassment case...sexual harassment IS a crime... June ! _ _ _ _ _ _` __ _ _ _ |_ . _ _ _ | -~*~- _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_) (_|| (/_(/_ | || )(_|/_) o /!\_| _| /%;@\ o/@,%\o /%;`@,\ o/@'%',\o '^^^M^^^` www.xs4all.nl/~klr *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Bull! He was sworn to give truthful testimony in a sexual harassment case...sexual harassment IS a crime... June it could certainly be said that monica sexually harassed him into their sex acts. it might do well for you to think about your posts before jetting them off for all to see, without any thought as to what you are actually saying. sirhC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 10:09:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the first time we have seen a major prolonged attack on a sovereign nation who was not already attacking somebody else. We have lost control of our country, and you don't have to look into shadowy, mysterious organizations to see who now runs it. It's on your TV every hour, 24 hours a day when an event like this is on --- those working with AIPAC, the evil B'nai B'rith, and the Isreali lobby. It's now out in the open for everyone to see. It is necessary that we have a Christian, dignified, but vigorous attitude as we move to take back our country like the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, and not fall for unjust reactions to unjust aggression such as was overseen by the evil Adolph Hitler -- who really has turned out to be the best propaganda weapon that anti-Christ Jewry ever had. First, I'm glad that you're not an anti-Semite. This is the first time we have seen a major prolonged attack on a sovereign nation who was not already attacking somebody else. Have you been asleep for the past forty years? We attacked North Vietnam before their North Vietnamese troops went into south. Of course, "South Vietnam" was merely an invention to keep the Vietnamese from governing themselves but that's another story. We invaded Panama making 20,000 homeless. What country were the Panamanians attacking? We invaded Grenada. We bombed Libya. We put together terrorist groups to attack Nicaragua and ferried them about for this purpose not to mention mining the national harbor. Would overthrowing democratically elected governments in Iran, Guatemala, and Chile count? Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- On 16 Dec 98 , M. wrote: MJ: Reading through this tripe, the consideration of a 'mirror' view regarding the Democratic desire to SAVE an accused perjurer who has abused his power and his office 'turned' on every word. This "accused perjurer" was accused of saying that he was never alone with a woman when, in fact, he was alone with her. Being alone with the woman was not, in itself, a crime. This "accused perjurer" is accused of saying that he never had "sexual relations" with a certain woman, when in fact he did have sexual relations of a sort. Having sexual relations with the woman was not a crime. He is accused of perjury in relation to matters which do not, in any way, relate to criminal acts. Many of the most educated people in our nation, including distinguished legal scholars and prosecutors who participated in the Iran-Contra hearings, cannot believe that Clinton is being impeached over these issues. Ken Starr's own ethical advisor has quit over these issues. However, all we hear on the news is what the ruthless, relentless, vengeful Republican members of the Judiciary Committee think, do, and say. It is this sort of thing that would make this impeachment laughable, if it were not a tragically unfortunate--not for Clinton, but for the nation. This is the kind of issue that combined with Y2k problems, could eventually split the nation, lead to civil war, and, finally, to martial law. Which is exactly where these radical Republicans may be leading us. Once you're under martial law, you'll be moral and read your Bible, all right!!! You won't have a choice. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Perjury
-Caveat Lector- MJ: Reading through this tripe, the consideration of a 'mirror' view regarding the Democratic desire to SAVE an accused perjurer who has abused his power and his office 'turned' on every word. Sno0wl wrote: This "accused perjurer" was accused of saying that he was never alone with a woman when, in fact, he was alone with her. Being alone with the woman was not, in itself, a crime. MJ: Correct, but LYING about this under oath in an effort to thwart culpability in a civil suit most certainly is ... as well as being in conflict with a President's oath of office. Sno0wl wrote: This "accused perjurer" is accused of saying that he never had "sexual relations" with a certain woman, when in fact he did have sexual relations of a sort. Having sexual relations with the woman was not a crime. MJ: Did you investigate the many laws regarding sodomy within the nation's capitol? LYING about this under oath in an effort to thwart culpability in a civil suit most certainly is ... as well as being in conflict with a President's oath of office. Sno0wl wrote: He is accused of perjury in relation to matters which do not, in any way, relate to criminal acts. MJ: The perjury itself is a criminal act. No mention of the abuses of office and power utilized to the goal of thwarting culpability in that civil manner? Afterall, Mr. Nixon was pursued for 'covering up' a crime he did not commit as compared to Clinton's desire to do the same for his OWN crimes. Sno0wl wrote: Many of the most educated people in our nation, including distinguished legal scholars and prosecutors who participated in the Iran-Contra hearings, cannot believe that Clinton is being impeached over these issues. Ken Starr's own ethical advisor has quit over these issues. However, all we hear on the news is what the ruthless, relentless, vengeful Republican members of the Judiciary Committee think, do, and say. MJ: Certainly one is learned enough to 'wade' through the BS and locate primary sourcing ... establishing an opinion for ones self of the FACTS. Hamilton, Federalist Number 65: A well-constituted court for the trial of impeachments is an object not more to be desired than difficult to be obtained in a government wholly elective. The subjects of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself. The prosecution of them, for this reason, will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused. In many cases it will connect itself with the pre-existing factions, and will enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side or on the other; and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength of parties, than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt. I simply point to our current efforts in Iraq ... the questioning of Mr. Clinton's motives in itself demonstrates the 'violation of some public trust.' The same accusations occurred when Mr. Clinton destroyed a pharmaceutical plant in August. Regard$, --MJ Men in public trust will much oftener act in such a manner as to render them unworthy of being any longer trusted, than in such a manner as to make them obnoxious [subject] to legal punishment. -- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No 70 It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true. -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
