CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't believe that cats feature on the fox's menu: mice, birds, worms, fish chips, pizza and hamburgers yes, but not domestic cats. Jonathan is right, foxes give domestic moggies their due respect. I once watched some night vision recordings of a back garden in the UK in which a moggie sat washing it's face right in the middle of a footpath. A large fox had to step around the moggie to be on his way - both ignored each other, as equally matched opponents generally do. The odd kitten may fall victim, but an adult cat is more than a match for any fox. Rusty Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think a ban on fox hunting will be the worst thing to happen to foxes ever. Steve. Steve, Neil, I dunno, Steve. Here in the US, there have been several bans on hunting various things with dogs (hounds, if you will), and the species have bounded back in numbers that could not be ignored. For instance, Black Bear Cougar (mountain lion). But neither of those species is classed as vermin (agricultural pest if you prefer) nor do they have a year round open season on them. Foxes can be shot, trapped or snared all year round and by anyone who has the landowner's permission. You don't even need any form of hunting licence to do this. Here's what I think will happen: You will have a steady increase in the actual population of the fox. Especially in the urban areas, cats and squirrel populations will be diminished. I don't believe that cats feature on the fox's menu: mice, birds, worms, fish chips, pizza and hamburgers yes, but not domestic cats. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting Ban
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course one thing that few people ever mention about controlling foxes is cage trapping. It is humane and very efficient. Efficient maybe, but humane? I'm not sure I can agree with that. It's the most natural thing in the world for any wild animal to run away from danger. They do it all the time. But there's nothing natural about being trapped in a cage. I would imagine the stress of being suddenly caged and unable to escape must be quite considerable. A fox thus caught would have to endure this level of stress for several hours. If caught early on a winter's night with the trap not checked until daybreak it could conceivably be as long as 15 hours. Compare this with a hunted fox. It is in it's own natural environment, doing what comes perfectly naturally, simply running away from danger. I would argue that the actual level of stress suffered by the hunted fox is dramatically less than that suffered by the one caught in a cage trap. Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting Ban
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] You tie a rope to the cage and throw it in the farmer's slurry pit where it drowns in a manner that is guaranteed to excite even those whose taste for inflicting pain on helpless animals has been otherwise jaded by years of other acts of cruelty. Sorry. You shoot it, dispose of the carcass and then re-set the trap. It is also an efficient way, using a smaller cage, of dealing with rabbits eating root crops where snaring is impractical. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mr. Totty said: I think the former before the latter, with sympathizers putting dog food out for the foxes. This will lead to a veritable population explosion, and possibly other things as well. All I can say to that is: wait until we get the first case of rabies in the UK and then listen to the howls of the chattering classes for fox extermination. Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Neil Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... it is the farmers and land owners as they would be left with a pest problem with no reason to put up with it anymore as they would derive no revenue from it. You're probably right. The CA keep telling me it is these people (and general dwellers in the countryside) who are actually the guardians of it. Incorrect - most would harbor nuclear waste if it turned a profit. In the words of a famous slob - 'guardians of the countryside my arse'. Mark Thomas did illustrate this point in 1998. In short, they are no better or worse than anyone - and certainly no better than the people they decry for living the capitalist lifestyle in the big city. Another word for this type of behavior is hypocrisy. I think a ban on fox hunting will be the worst thing to happen to foxes ever. I dunnow - I don't think foxes would give a flying fig either way - they are smarter than most humans. - Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] For a group of people so concerned about the environment, local ecology and being divorced from nature this seems rather perverse. --snip-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --snip-- I think a ban on fox hunting will be the worst thing to happen to foxes ever. Steve. Steve, Neil, I dunno, Steve. Here in the US, there have been several bans on hunting various things with dogs (hounds, if you will), and the species have bounded back in numbers that could not be ignored. For instance, Black Bear Cougar (mountain lion). In an isolated environment, it could happen as someone has already indicated (Jersey, I believe?). Here's what I think will happen: You will have a steady increase in the actual population of the fox. Especially in the urban areas, cats and squirrel populations will be diminished. People will complain that their cats are disappearing, along with small dogs, and they will buy more to compensate. If Britain is as 'catty' as the US, there will be one hell of a feed, and a corresponding increase in the fox population. Either people will adopt the fox as a kind of 'hedge hog', or they will come to their senses and return to the themes of the past. I think the former before the latter, with sympathizers putting dog food out for the foxes. This will lead to a veritable population explosion, and possibly other things as well. At any rate, at some point somebody -- in government -- will come to his senses and point out that, once again, man has upset the balance and instead of doing nature a favor, has instead tipped the scales in favor of a biased result (so, what else is new?). My few ounces worth of gold. -- You're assuming the word "countryside" in the US meaning of the term. There is little wild countryside in the UK. This is one of the most densely populated countries on Earth. 93% of people live in urban areas. If there isn't a hospitable environment for a species, it dies off, and I seriously doubt there would be for the fox in the highly maintained countryside that passes for the "outdoors" here. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "Peter Webb", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't pretend to be an expert on fox hunting, so surely it will just be ploughed up and all the foxes killed off? G'day all... You'll probably find that foxes survive surprisingly well in many of your "greener" suburbs. Very versatile creatures. As for hunting them Try a 12-gauge with BB or No1 shot. Walking across-country kicking through the rough and shooting as they "flush". Of course a good dog helps, but isn't really necessary. A friend of ours used to do better 100 over a winter's worth of weekends. ... Or whistling them up with a "squealing rabbit" type predator call. When pelt prices were good here, there was a lot of shooting pressure but still quite a few foxes. Now we use 1080, or at least most of my neighbours do. Take your pick Regards.. Peter Webb (Aust) -- Certainly there will still be foxes in urban areas, we have loads now, the point being that it is a rather sad commentary that the only place they may be able to survive is in an urban area. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the penalties in the proposal in addition to a L5000 fine is a ban for life on owning a dog! What's the penalty for death [of a human] by dangerous driving? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner Causing Death by Dangerous Driving used to be only five years (maximum sentence), I believ that may have been increased. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "Chris Lloyd", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was in north Norfolk two years ago and commented to a farmer about the number of rabbits about. He said he had not seen a fox in three years. He told me they were nearly exterminated in the 1900s as there was no hunting tradition in the area so no need for the foxes. Any one know if this is correct. Chris. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the penalties in the proposal in addition to a L5000 fine is a ban for life on owning a dog! What's the penalty for death [of a human] by dangerous driving? --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting Ban
From: "Chris Lloyd", [EMAIL PROTECTED] " Of course one thing that few people ever mention about controlling foxes is cage trapping. It is humane and very efficient." OK now what do you do with it, shoot it?Chris. -- No, you shoot it and cut it up, wrap it in bacon and eat it I reckon! Presumably if they are caged and then you shoot it, it would be more efficient because you could use a single shot for certain. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Pete Ansbro, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was in north Norfolk two years ago and ... I can't speak for the area mentioned but if I take Suffolk as representative, in areas where foxes predate on income-generating livestock such as game birds or sheep, they won't be tolerated. Having said that, there are sufficient tracts of land where foxes aren't hassled about to ensure that they won't die out. Pete Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting Ban
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course one thing that few people ever mention about controlling foxes is cage trapping. It is humane and very efficient. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-hunting ban
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yesterdays vote in the House of Prats marked a new low for the principle of freedom in the no longer Great Britain. --snip-- Our transatlantic cousins got totally fed up with this sort of thing over 200 years ago, so why are we still suffering at the hands of the same type of despots? Can it be time for change? feel free to email me offline with your thoughts. Chris Steve, Chris, The matter you suffer under is that of unlimited government. The people of the US had their chance a long time ago to prevent the nature of what exists, and merely accepted what is, instead of what could have been. Heaven knows where we'd be today if a Swiss form of federation had developed instead of what has evolved. Chances are we (the American citizens) would not be occupying half of the world in specious escapades. As an aside, our current situation is the best way to make enemies of the rest of the world. We have what we have now, merely because it is all predicated on money. Money equals power, and power is the essence of all law. With law, you can literally screw everybody on your hate list, and with money, you can truss them up nicely too. Without the money to enforce a law, the law is worthless, and as you should know from old English law: The law which cannot be enforced is not a law. If you could ever, and I mean EVER manage to extricate yourselves from your current predicament (not likely anytime soon), the first thing you must consider is to deny the government the ability to collect taxes. Plain and simple, that aspect needs to be up to the people to decide, and by a super-majority at that. The government that cannot mandate a tax, is essentially without any power to declare anything, for money is the fuel that powers the machine, and without fuel, the machine is lifeless. That is the secret to a quiet and happy life in the British Isles, as elsewhere. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: Adrian, [EMAIL PROTECTED] T Once a hunt is up and running as a drag hunt I understand the wording of the act may make it an offence if the hounds were to deviate onto a real fox trail and run it to ground. The hunt would have to make realistic effort to prevent this beforehand (i.e. not laying a trail close to known fox earths) and during the hunt (i.e. disuading the hounds from following the scent or killing the fox). Or maybe by just killing all the foxes in the area. -- Adrian Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The irony of the hunting ban - I have my own views on whether we need one or not - is that if enacted it will strengthen the hand of those wishing to see action taken against those who presently illegally course hares at night with lurchers and lamps. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] For the first time I've actually seen the intended penalties for hunting when any ban comes into force. A maximum of a L5,000 fine. Having noted that its a maximum and that probably a lesser amount may be levied I wonder how many people the average hunt attracts and how much the participants and followers would be prepared to stump up as a fee. Much as those who flouted the old Sunday trading laws used to do in London years ago. The fine was just a running expense along with rent, rates etc. I can't see the police having the manpower to attend and prosecute every hunt if they all continued so any cost would be reduced even further. One other interesting point was made on a phone in today. Assume that the ban is now in force and the hunt continues as a drag hunt. What then happens if the hounds catch the scent of a fox and follow that. As there was no intent has a crime been committed? Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-hunting ban
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yesterdays vote in the House of Prats marked a new low for the principle of freedom in the no longer Great Britain. How many people like me are fed up with the nanny state, political correctness, and the hypocrisy of the idiots who have the absolute right (courtesy of the Parliament Act) to do what the hell they please WITHOUT recourse for anybody?. Even our so-called democracy is a total sham!!! when was the last time your views counted on anything? I am personally very very tired of this country, but not enough to go somewhere else, because I know that the Vast majority of people in this country think as I do, SO. Why can't someone set up a political Party called (for want of anything better) "The Founding Fathers Party". Main objectives, the restoration of freedom in the UK, the introduction of a written constitution, with a Supreme court that can pass judgement, an elected upper-house, the right to defend yourself, your family and your property by whatever means are legally available, the re-introduction of the death penalty, the re-introduction of the right of parents to discipline their children, the re-introduction of National Service or as an acceptable alternative a period doing community service in say the NHS. In addition, and most importantly, true democracy so that people can vote on local issues, or national issues, and have the result bindingI could go on, but good god, am I alone in wanting this sort of thing?, am I the only one utterly sick of the tyranny we suffer at the hands of those idiots in Parliament? where do we draw the line? are we always going to back-peddle? Our transatlantic cousins got totally fed up with this sort of thing over 200 years ago, so why are we still suffering at the hands of the same type of despots? Can it be time for change? feel free to email me offline with your thoughts. Chris Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] ISSUE 2064 Thursday 18 January 2001 Ban predicted within two years By Peter Foster ANTI-HUNT campaigners predicted that a ban on hunting would become a reality within two years. The RSPCA, the League Against Cruel Sports and the International Fund for Animal Welfare said last night's vote was a major step towards ending the "senseless cruelty" of hunting. Although accepting that the Bill would not become law in this Parliament, the League Against Cruel Sports was confident that Labour would make a manifesto commitment to allow a ban to go through in the next. Andrew Wasley, a spokesman for the league, said: "Allowing for a year's grace, the last packs of hounds should then be wound up by the autumn of 2002. This vote is the beginning of the end for hunting." The RSPCA added its support. "As far we are concerned, a complete ban is the only acceptable option. There can be no compromise on cruelty to animals. The majority of people want hunting banned and we hope and expect that MPs will recognise this. The earlier a ban is brought into force, the better. That should be achievable within two years. There is no place for hunting in a modern society." Rallies were staged outside the House of Commons and in Suffolk, Wales and Cornwall, before the hounds and riders set off in the frost for a day's hunting. At several meetings hunt followers promised to defy the ban even if it meant going to jail. Their threats were dismissed by the anti-hunting groups as "a final, futile gesture". The RSPCA said massing packs into superhunts was a "last sign of desperation". However, in many rural areas hunt leaders talked of taking drastic action if the ban was forced through in the next parliament. -- I don't pretend to be an expert on fox hunting, but surely if it is banned there will be no reason for farmers and so on to maintain the areas used by fox hunters and the areas where foxes live, so surely it will just be ploughed up and all the foxes killed off? Is this accurate? Or has it not been brought up because it conflicts with the "pest control" argument (which I have to say is daft because shooting them with a rifle is more effective). The argument I always use against banning fox hunting is that foxes will become extinct in various areas as there will be no reason to put up with them any longer. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
