Re: Re: So much for "but it's legal in Norway"
also makes > it very different. sorry, but the old rules do not apply, and trying to > force them to the distributed knowledge environment merely makes you a > dictator, not right... But it does not make the personal files stored on that box your employer's property any more than the messages on my answering machine are the property of Bell Atlantic, or the files on my web server the property of Concentric just because I buy DSL service from them. > the fact is that the rules and laws of this new environment do not yet > exist, and we have to be vigilant every single day to insure that the > old rules and regulations of the archaic political economy are not crammed > down our throuts. Bullshit, the old laws fit just fine. You seem to be trolling for new laws. New laws allow Big Brother to sneak in his pro-spy back doors. No thanks. Keep your new fascist laws you Fed troll. I want no part of them. > why do we act with surprise at each new case where the > old ways are threatened and the old institutions challenge what we have > wrought? it is not only predictable, it is a necessary means for forcing > the transition from the old political economy to a new form of organizing > ourselves politically, economically and socially... You perhaps are acting in surprise. I know my files are mine, my hardware is mine. If I'm paid to create files for my employer or client, then they are theirs, not mine, and I do not get to keep backups unless he allows me to explicitly. Nor do I get to patent any ideas I have while on company time, nor do I get to copyright works created as a direct result of working for my employer, etc. The old property and intellectual property laws fit just fine. Go and visit the clue server. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: So much for "but it's legal in Norway"
Sunder brainfarted: > Now, your hammer may be a perfectly fine hammer. But it's not your hammer. > You do not get to keep it when he walks off. Sunder should have written and meant to write: > Now, your hammer may be a perfectly fine hammer. But it's your hammer, not > his. You do not get to keep *his* hammer, when he walks off just because he > did a job on your property with it. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ---- + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Court authorizes search of Northwest employees' home computers
Whomever the flea bitten bitch that signed these search warrant is needs to find themselves a job at McDonalds! What bastards! http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?template=biz_a_cache&slug=priv0208 Court authorizes search of Northwest employees' home computers Eric Wieffering and Tony Kennedy Star Tribune Tuesday, February 8, 2000 Northwest Airlines last week began court-authorized searches of the home computers of between 10 and 20 flight attendants, looking for private e-mail and other evidence that the employees helped to organize a sickout at the airline over the New Year's holiday. The search has since been suspended pending a temporary settlement of the airline's lawsuit against Teamsters Local 2000, the union representing 11,000 flight attendants. But privacy advocates and attorneys not involved with the case say Northwest's action may embolden other companies to more aggressively monitor what employees say and do online from their home computers. http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?template=biz_a_cache&slug=priv0208 -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ---- + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
Aaron wrote: Blah, blah, blah, keep repeating your party line commie mantra. Otherwise, how else would you, yourself believe it. Obviously, if you didn't give a shit about my property, you wouldn't bother making such a big deal about it. You just go ahead and believe your bullshit all you like, just don't bother me with it if you don't want me to bring down your pie in the sky theories to reality. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your mantra, the party line just don't fly. Like they say, no matter how hard you try, you can't polish shit. So feel free to spew your bullshit, by all means, I believe in freedom of speech, but you can sure the fuck expect me to debunk your shit every time I see it. And if you had any points, you would have made them. You can't just spew out "because the corporations are going to own your ass" without a single bit of proof. No one will believe your shit regardless. If you have an arguement to make, back it up with reason. Otherwise, it's just party bullshit. FYI: corporations don't own my ass. I'd say the reverse is true though. Ever hear of stock? When you buy it, you own a piece of their asses. Capitalism doesn't dig its own grave. Capitalism provides a very important feedback mechanism. To succeede at it you have to do something right. You can't be lazy and rely on others to provide for you. You're responsible for yourself and family. Communism, is idiotic. The workers work so that the lazy may benefit. Communism? Nyet! > > Stop smoking crack. I've never threatened your property in any way. Your bullshit > doesn't have a leg to stand on. > > >> I don't care about your money or your stuff. > > > >Then go start a commie commune and leave us cypherpunks alone. We like money > >and stuff. > > Please. You're just another petty-bourgeois wanna-be. I don't care about your money > because the corporations are going to own your ass long before communists take > control. > > Capitalism digs its own grave. But fortunately, communism is evolution's reply. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, Aaron wrote: > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:01:50 -0400, Anonymous Sender wrote: > > >Without any real knowledge, with only the warm feeling of being right and > >knowing that all sheep around will instantly confirm it, americans > >denounce communism, and it feels so good. Orgasmic. > > People on this list think they've proven communism wrong, but > they've always avoided any real confrontation with it. No ones > strives to understand if communism might have something > valuable to say-- that's what passes for an open mind here. I think history has spoken for itself on this issue. Communism just doesn't work. As for real confrontation with it, just what the fuck do you call the cold war? What exactly do you imply that communism has that would be valuable? No I'm curious, I'd like to hear it. So far, what you offer is nothing more than bait and switch. You say communism protects the workers from being exploited, but the reality is that it simply offers a different and more insidious form of exploitation. One where the profits of the workers go straight into the pockets of the state - which in turn are run by polticians, who don't do any real work. By real work, I mean produce products and services to benefit their customers. All they produce as politicians is wealth for themselves, and slavery for their workers. Can you honestly give us a list of pros and cons for communism? One that addresses real life, not Satan Claws or Oestra Rabid bunnies myths? I don't mean the commie party line that goes "communism protects the workers from being exploited" but one that tells us exactly how it strives to do that and the reasons why you believe that it can succeede?
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, Aaron wrote: > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:48:11 -0500, Sunder wrote: > > >FYI: corporations don't own my ass. I'd say the reverse is true though. Ever > >hear of stock? When you buy it, you own a piece of their asses. > > Yeah, and you're Ted Turner? Don't equate yourself to the bourgeoisie. You > only make me laugh at such foolishness. Bitch please, the basic premise that all men are created equal still holds true. To each his own. I don't strive to be Ted Turner, nor does he strive to be me. That's the thing about freedom. The "worker" is not a synonim for "drone." Laugh all you want, but that's reality. When I buy even a single share of a company, I own a slice of that company. When it does good, I make money, when it doesn't I lose. If I decide the company sucks ass, I can sell it, and it will lose money. > >Capitalism doesn't dig its own grave. Capitalism provides a very important > >feedback mechanism. To succeede at it you have to do something right. You > >can't be lazy and rely on others to provide for you. > > Speculation is a form of laziness our capitalism has plenty of. Speculation in what form? Speculating what precisely? > But that's not the main flaw of capitalism. Capitalism digs its grave because > ultimately it's exploitive to the workers. The government has had to protect > workers from the corporations for the sake of corporations. But as the protections > are removed... we'll see. And who forces you to work for a particular company? If the place sucks, quit and work elsewhere. IF you can't find work, it's because you're incompetent, or your skills are outdated. You can only blame *YOURSELF* for that. You have no one else to blame. Is that why you turn to communism? Because you're too lazy to learn new skills that are in demand? Protections my ass. No one puts a gun to your head and says you must work here for X amount of dollars doing Y hours a week in Z conditions. It's a free market Mr. Commie. Like auctions, a thing's value is what people are willing to pay for it. Same for your skills. They're worth exactly what the market is willing to pay for it. Same for products and services, they're worth what people are willing to pay for them. Those that suck go the way of the dodo, those that succede make money. If a company mistreats you, you can always walk away, and you can always tell your friends exactly why it sucks and why they shouldn't work there. Hell, and I didn't even mention anything about lawsuits so far. Anyone who gets exploited by any entity does so because they allowed themselves to get that way. Oh, and please, don't give me a strawman about people getting mugged or raped at gunpoint. Were they allowed to carry in the first place, it wouldn't have been an issue. Sorry, but so far, you've not managed to give a single good arguement for communism or why capitalism is bad. It's moronic that you repeatedly spew the party line about how capitalism becomes communism in the long term, when there's no proof of that whatsoever in real life. If anything, quite the contrary, the breakup of Russia proves that communism will rot from the inside out because of capitalism. If anything the corruption inside its government points to bribes as a way of life. What are bribes if not a form capitalism deemed illegal?
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Oh puhleeze. Research before you speak. I was born in a satelite of Red > > Russia. It was a commie state. I remember it all too well. Joe Sixpack might > > not give a shit about how much it sucks elsewhere. I do, I was there. > > Irrelevent. No one is arguing that existence under communist rule is > a holiday -- or even better than existence in the U.S. The statement is > simply that the average american knows dick about the conditions that > exist in other nations, and as an aside, is oblivious to the conditions > he himself lives in. Irrelevan my ass. I'm offended that you would assume such a thing about anyone. I won't let you escape this arguement by stating "But I said the Average American and you're not average." The average American isnt' knowledgeable about cyphers, or the NSA either for that matter. By talking on this list, you're not talking to the average American, so you can't take that exist hatch. It's irrelevant to this discussion that the Average American(tm) couldn't tell you in 5 seconds where Austra is if you gave him a globe. It's irrelevant to this discussion that the Average American(tm) couldn't tell you how much of his money went to taxes either, or how his car, phone, or computer work. Quite honestly, I know both commie theory and have experienced it on my own back. Remember, I lived in a commie state when I was a kid. I know exactly what the conditions are. Can you say the same? Unlike you, I haven't read Marx in the comfort of my own liberty. I didn't chose to read commie propaganda. It was forced upon me. Repeatedly. I didn't have the luxury of even learning about anything OTHER than communism at the time. Until I escaped the evil clutches of the communist regieme, I had no idea how any other place or how any other system was. I can honestly say that it was brainwashing at its best. No, I didn't believe a word of it because what was said and what was done were at odds with each other. I'm not a blind believer in faith. Just because I've read Marx doesn't mean I'll believe it. Just because I've read the bible, doesn't mean I'll believe it either any more than reading Lovecraft will get me to belive that gigantic intelligent squid and semi-plant/semi-animal elder ones live under the Artic caps either. Bullshit may be entertaining, but it's not reality. Not being able to tell them apart is a bad thing. > Americans condemn Communism usually without even having read the Communist > Manifesto; and if they HAVE read the Manifesto, they say something good > and stupid like "sounds great on paper, but doesn't work in the real > world." Americans condemn Communism without knowing shit about Marxist > tenents, and without knowing (or even reading about) the realities of > life under a Stalinist/Maoist rule. Just because the Average American condems or promotes something doesn't make them wrong either. Why is it do you think that they say "sounds great on paper, but doesn't work in the real world?" How do you know how much the Average American knows or doesn't know? How do you know that lack of firsthand experience or reading it makes them unknowledgeable morons or experts? You're assuming this, no? If not, where's your proof exactly? > It is _precisely_ because of this ignorance that makes Anonymous' point > so relevent. Look, the Average American will also tell you that getting a hot iron shoved up your ass isn't a good thing either, and I guarantee you that precisely less than 10 Americans have experienced getting a hot iron shoved up their ass. Does that make their point less valid? Do they need to know the medical theories behind why getting a hot iron shoved up your ass is bad for you? Do they need to experience it first hand to know it's bad? > No matter how (insert adjective) X is, denouncing it before > you know what X actually is, and is not, is rubbish at best .. insanity > at worst. My above paragraph proves by counter exaple that your above point is bullshit. > I'd take issue with that, in a round-about way. Uncle Sam steals your coin > because there are a shit-load of Americans out there with less-than-dick > for resources. Any as a side issue, I'll answer that with a question: "Why am I personally responsible for feeding and clothing them?" As a second aside, "why does the money Uncle Sam take from me not reach them?" If it did, we wouldn't have homeless motherfuckers on the streets. The answers to these questions point out just how bad communism/socialism is. To take from the worker as to feed the incompetent is socialism, which is half a step from communism. > These unfortunate souls might have taken up, say, basket > weaving as a hobby rather than computer programming (unlike the majority > of people who are likely to read this list) and as such (since hand-made > baskets aren't in particularly high demand these days) are doomed to > taking shitbox minimum wage
Re: bomb making instruction
Go here bitch, it's da bomb! http://209.215.174.115/recipes/re-c1/0,1724,9648,00.html On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, Stacey Peters wrote: > please send me all information > >
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
Anonymous Sender wrote: > > >You're a commie, that's enough of a threat to everyone's property. > > It's amusing how the brainwashing shows its ugly face when the appropriate > stimulus is applied. For most US subjects it is the "communism" thingie. Oh puhleeze. Research before you speak. I was born in a satelite of Red Russia. It was a commie state. I remember it all too well. Joe Sixpack might not give a shit about how much it sucks elsewhere. I do, I was there. > Without any real knowledge, with only the warm feeling of being right and > knowing that all sheep around will instantly confirm it, americans > denounce communism, and it feels so good. Orgasmic. Hi Aaron. > As for property, do your balance sheet and try to figure out how much > of the goods rented to you you actually own. Or how many years can you > survive without selling your time. What, no years, but months ? What > property are we talking about ? Your stereo ? I'm not arguing that Uncle Sam gets a big chunk of what I own. The arguement is communism vs capitalism. In this regard, Uncle Sam is like communism. But it's certainly not the corporations that rape my money. -- ---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Opt-Out of DoubleClick
Harmon Seaver wrote: > > I used to run a nightly cron job that deleted my cookies, but that > presents a different problem -- such as deleting the mp3.com cookies means > that I have to re-register every time I go there, which sometimes is daily. > Likewise deleting the amazon cookies means that the the partial orders in my > shopping cart disappear. Neither is a big deal, I guess, but annoying. > One other thing on the doubleclick optout page -- after you get your > cookie "fixed", it has a button that says "Close Window". Clicking on this > starts a java applet on my machine which crashes Netscape -- anybody know what > this is about? Obviously, "close window" is a trojan something -- they don't > need to run an applet on my machine to close a window on their website. So learn how to write shell scripts that use grep. Grep for the shit you want to keep and write it to the new cookie file. -- ---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Freeh says DoS attacks require FBI access to plaintext
Yeah, ok, now we know who is responsible for the attacks on the sites. Follow the money, and it's the Fedz themselves. Declan McCullagh wrote: > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,34388,00.html > > [...] > > Repeating a long-standing theme, he said > data-scrambling encryption products > posed a real danger to police, who > needed access to descrambled > documents or communications. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ---- + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Re: why worry?
Aaron wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:42:38 -0500, Tim May wrote: > > > > >Aaron and Harmon and the other simp-wimps seem to be mighty inclined to > >letting government steal property to do what they think is "good." > > > >Such people, who steal my property, need killing. Millions in America need > >killing. > > > > Dude, maybe I need a restraining order placed on you. Dude, maybe you need a brain transplant. That ol'e time Mc Donalds commie philosophy crack pipe you've been sucking hard on has killed every last neuron that provided you with what little judgement you had. Funny how the commie goes off and insinuates that he wants help from an anti communist government to silence someone who disagrees with him! I suspect Tim had forgotten to quantify what he meant by Millions in America. I suspect what he meant included commies, but as I don't speak for the man, I won't. Too many fucken commie trolls on this list. Hell. -- ---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Microsoft=Big Bro, H&R leaks tax info, Jan24 NSA outage
At least during installation. http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000210E832 H&R leaks client tax info: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-1550948.html Jan 24 NSA outage: http://newsweek.com/nw-srv/printed/us/st/a16330-2000feb13.htm -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Re: why worry?
Aaron wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:59:40 -0500, Sunder wrote: > > >Dude, maybe you need a brain transplant. That ol'e time Mc Donalds commie > >philosophy crack pipe you've been sucking hard on has killed every last > >neuron that provided you with what little judgement you had. > > > >Funny how the commie goes off and insinuates that he wants help from an anti > >communist government to silence someone who disagrees with him! > > It's obvious that some of you have lost all sense of proportionality. --Oh, commies > are everywhere, trying to steal my property.-- That state of mind doesn't make > sense, it's irrational and neurotic. Oh, no, not at all. We're perfectly aware that you are ALONE and unprotected. Besides, far as I see it no one other than you is spewing out that it's okay to appropriate someone else's property at the point of a gun, or by using force and by justifying it with a commie regime. > Right-libertarianism is dieing because you brand people heretics. Nobody gives a shit what a commie redneck hypocrite thinks. Why hypocrite, read below where you state that your theft of property is okay, but using force to prevent such theft isn't. > PS: concluding that someone needs to die because their unorthodox ideas > cause the theft of your property is the sign of an emotionally unbalanced > person. Libertarians don't have the right to initiate force against me, > fuckface. Oh you're absolutely right. Theives don't need to die, they need to die slowly and painfully. Especially the commie ones who proclaim, "I may steal from you with the full force of a government, buit you do not have the right to initiate force against me so as to protect your property." Yes, those commie fuckhead morons need to have their nuts roasted slowly over a lighter. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Clinton & Gore Vow To Fight The Establishment On Crypto (YeahRight)
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > > > Your faith in government is touching. The fact is, the crypto ban will > only > > be truly repealed when the NSA has quantum chips that can decode almost > > anything in realtime. The government does not care ONE SMEGGING BIT about > > 'terrorists' or 'criminals' or 'spies'. It cares only, solely, and totally > > about being able to spy on average citizens. It wants control, and that's > all. > > Your paranoia is getting the better of you. > > Most people who work for governments are ordinary people and not the > facist thugs of your bizare fantasies. > > Most people who work for intelligence agencies are pretty normal come > to that. Really, then why did we have all this bullshit set of restrictions of strong encryption? Why do we have all this recent fearmongering and FUDding about terrorists, drug dealers, child abusers, and hackers who might use crypto and befuddle the FBI in catching script kiddies who use denial of service attacks? (IMHO, they're the ones doing the DoS's anyway.) > > > The problem was that it was billed as a purely civil rights issue. This > > >won the argument on the need to change policy but not the issue of > timing. > > >I spent several years trying to work out an answer to the question 'but > if > > >as you say it is having no effect, why is there a need for a change > now?'. > > > > > Actually, I found, to my annoyance, it was billed as a competitiveness > > issue. OTOH, if it wasn't, NO ONE would have paid attention. At least a > few > > people in government are more interested in money than in power, but not > > enough. > > As I said, the civil rights issue had no traction since there was an > inherent > contradiction. We all knew that the export control regs. were inffective. > So how could an ineffective regulation be a civil right threat? Then why not do away with them and be done with it? We all know its hurting the industry to not be able to use or sell strong crypto. Why do we need code reviews for commercial programs? Why do we need to inform BXA of shareware/freeware releases? Why bother with any of that shit. Any two bit spook can use a search engine to find web pages serving up programs. So why the bullshit? > Thats why the competition issue was important, it gave the issue urgency. > > Phill -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
Aaron wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:58:25 -0500, Sunder wrote: > > >> PS: concluding that someone needs to die because their unorthodox ideas > >> cause the theft of your property is the sign of an emotionally unbalanced > >> person. Libertarians don't have the right to initiate force against me, > >> fuckface. > > > >Oh you're absolutely right. Theives don't need to die, they need to die > >slowly and painfully. Especially the commie ones who proclaim, "I may > >steal from you with the full force of a government, buit you do not have > >the right to initiate force against me so as to protect your property." > > > >Yes, those commie fuckhead morons need to have their nuts roasted slowly > >over a lighter. > > You're moronic. I've never done anything to threaten your property. ROTFLMAO! You're a commie, that's enough of a threat to everyone's property. How are you not a threat to my property or my earnings? You're a commie, as a commie, you want everyone to give up their property and share it with you. > I don't care about your money or your stuff. Then go start a commie commune and leave us cypherpunks alone. We like money and stuff. Nobody's forcing you to use our mailing lists. Start your own that promote your own agenda. > You're just another > thin-necked geek with a fat wallet and a soft dick. Huh, two out of three wrong. Little do you know. I'm far from being skinny, so my neck isn't thin. I'm far from being rich, so my wallet is skinny, and yes, if I saw you, my dick would stay soft. Commies don't turn me on. > The only wealth I care about is capital used by the bourgeoisie for > oppressing the workers. That's the only thing I care about destroying. Oppressing the workers how? This is the USA, there isn't any FORCED labor here, unlike, say Communist China. Nobody is forcing anyone to work for anyone else. You can quit your job any time you like. Gee, a word comes to mind whenever you spew your McDonald's communist theories at us, yet, the countries that practice what they call communism are what you're fighting against. They're the ones who opress the workers. Granted, Uncle Sam does steal about 50% of our salaries from us, but at least a good percentage of that goes to useful things such as firefighters and cops. Yes, cops can be corrupt, etc., etc., etc. - that's a side topic. But the point is that it's not the "bourgeoisie oppressing the workers," it's not the rich forcing the poor to work for them - quite the contrary. Big businesses don't force you to work for them. Rich folks don't force you to work for them. They are big and rich for a reason - when they were poor, they made the right decisions, and thus became rich. However, go to a commie state such as Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, or Red China, and guess who forces you to work... The commie government. Guess who profits from your work - the commies. Hell, in the USA you can be a street bum and live off the land, or beg or live off welfare like a leach, and no one will force you to work. At this point whom is oppressing whom? I'd say, I as a worker, who am not forced to work for any particular company or in any particular job, but I'm forced by Uncle Sam, at the point of a gun with the threat of jail time to pay taxes, some of which would go to support lazy fucken bums. Sure, if I decide to opt out and be a homeless bum, or welfare recipient, I don't have to work, but that's not a choice I'd like to make. Why? I'm a worker, not a leech. And if forced to piss away half my earnings so that leeches may live, I'll bitch about that, but I'd rather have half of my profits, than nothing. It sure ain't my "bourgeoisie" employer forcing me to work for the benefit of those who are lazy. So yes, you are a hypocrite, and a moron, and a threat to everyone's freedom and property. Why? Because what you would force us to do is give up our rights, our property, our work - all for your benefit - where you would crawl your way to becoming the commie government and forcing us to work for you. Look in the mirror to see the one who would use force to oppress and exploit the workers. Communism isn't a worker's paradise, it's a leech's paradise! We workers, by our very nature, aren't communists, we're capitalists. We don't want, nor need to be saved by hypocrites like you who would force us into slave labor for your hypocrite's benefit. We would scream "Show me the money, bitch!" and laugh at your vile attempts. We wouldn't accept your commie ideals, and we wouldn't allow you to rise to power. We would vote with our w
Re: Not an unexpected verdict ...
Peter Capelli wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > but it begs the question; what *would* a policeman have to do to get > convicted of murder? > > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/diallo000225_verdict.html It just goes to further confirms my long suspicions that our government isn't by the people/for the people at all, but rather has fascist/communist tendencies. Any jurisdiction that considers pupming 41 pieces of lead in a man that refuses to talk to four predatory bastards isn't by any stretch of the immagination free. I'm more and more tempted to vote with my feet. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Not an unexpected verdict ...
lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: > > Sunder writes: > > > > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/diallo000225_verdict.html > > > > It just goes to further confirms my long suspicions that our government isn't > > by the people/for the people at all, but rather has fascist/communist > > tendencies. > > The verdict in this trial was not by "our government", but by a jury of > average Americans who were presented with all the evidence. The decision > was unanimous, and the jury was racially mixed. Right, average Americans from Albany - known to be pro-police. Gee, why the change of venue? Regardless, if 12 believe can be made to believe that police procedure includes gunning down people who refuse to talk to them, they're either morons or have been paid off, or have other interests. FYI: the trial was televised. I saw enough of it to make my own decision thank you. Did you? Or are you just spewing? > That would be quite a sight for the people running the polling booths. You're a moron, you've no idea what the term means. Go fuck yourself. -- ---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Not an unexpected verdict ...
Reese wrote: > > >Actually, there's no evidence that Yabbadabbadoo Diallo "refused to talk" > ^ > Was that really necessary? Why not just "Diallo?" IMHO Tim seems to subconsciously need to self-defeat his point. Or wants the "PC" crowd to wail in horror at his writings. In either case, fuck the PC crowd. :) > >I know what _I'd_ think was going down if I was entering my home late at > >night and four black guys approached me and started screaming > > Especially in NYC,,, No shit. > What may be needed is for some survivalist to whack a complete swat squad > on a no-knock entry, when they burst through the wrong door - and have the > case go to the supreme court. It'd be a living hell for the "survivalist" > though,,, I don't think the poor survivalist would even survive the encounter. At that point, they'd probably plant some drugs on the body after they pump a few hundred rounds up his ass. Still if he manages to take out more than one cop, I'd say it would be a win. > Police Officers wear a uniform to provide a _visible_ presence, that very > presence being a deterrant to the criminally minded in society. Those 4 > were in some other category and should not have been doing flatfoot work. Bottom line: police are here to protect the citizenry from criminals, not to shoot them. They are there to TAKE A BULLET for innocents, not allow the innocents to be shot by their fire. Sure a cop's life is important and protecting it is important, but not at the price of standerby's. Further, if cops are just citizens, how come they get to get away with murder? -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
US spies opened Windows, Peek at No-So-Secret CIA...
http://www.lineone.net/express/00/02/23/news/n2920windows-d.html How US spies opened Windows on the world BY NIC FLEMING AND JACK GEE COMPUTER documents written in Microsoft Windows and sent over the Internet can be intercepted and read by American spies, it was claimed yesterday. Bill Gates's empire has been accused of putting a hidden code in the best-selling word processing program to give US intelligence services access to foreign military and business secrets. The computer giant denied any such arrangement, and experts expressed scepticism at the claim. A report by the French defence ministry claimed that "back-door technology" had been included in Windows software after a deal between Microsoft and the US National Security Agency. The report said: "The security agency has got Microsoft to hire a number of its own agents to ensure that Windows can be used to burglarise these messages. The Americans are not just spying on us but on all their allies, including Britain, as well as countries like China and Russia whom they regard as potential foes." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/2000-02/23/196l-022300-idx.html A Peek at the Not-So-Secret World of the CIA James Bond It Isn't, Students Discover By David Montgomery Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, February 23, 2000; Page B03 True, the in-house photographer had trouble getting a group shot because of all the necessarily shy employees ducking around corners. And there were direct phone lines to the White House and the Pentagon, and the wall had digital clocks showing the time in Baghdad and Tehran. But where, the students wondered, were all the swashbuckling spies with ballpoint pen grenades and computer eyeglasses and satellite wristwatches? "I'm as close to James Bond as you're going to see," said Jim Pavitt, who as deputy director for operations is one of the nation's top spymasters. "Look at me, guys, is there a difference?" he said. "Why are you laughing?" -- ---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Not an unexpected verdict ...
Jim Burnes wrote: > > > Wrong, police are here to serve and protect. They protect by enforcing > > laws. They serve by following the tenets of a democratic government as > > outlined in our Constitution. > > > > No lesser than the Supreme Court says you are wrong. I don't have the > decision details on me, but the Supreme decided (about 5 or so years ago) > that police were not required by law to provide individual protection. > > Thus the need for custom individual protection. ;-) Then, that begs the question of "why do we have police?" -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
to my head and demand I hand over 50% of my money so that some insignifican amount of that (or even if it were a significant portion) can go to feed the hungry, and it becomes theft. > I've tutored kids in math and computer programming. I've helped build > machines for those kids. Me too. I've taught them how to sysadmin and build boxes. But, I never did it for free, and never will. The teacher also has to eat. > I've worked in homeless shelters and soup > kitchens. I know all about how messed up our social programs are, and > I know how many times they fail .. but I also know how many times they > succeed. And yes, I'd like to make those programs more efficient so > that they are more successful, most of the time. But while I'm working > to do that, I'm sure as hell not going to shut down those centers. Then start by creating a charity system, not one based on stealing from those who work to give to those who won't or can't. > > Therefore Capitalism sucks and Americans are ignorant? > > Capitalism does suck, and yes .. the average American is ignorant about > what the hell is going on around the world.. but it is precisely because > I love: In what way does Capitalism suck again? > a) the idea of making a little coin and pursuing life, liberty >and happiness > > b) American people and culture > > that I'm trying to plug the leaks in this boat before we all > drown. The only reason we'd drown is because Uncle Sam is taking a slice of our pie at every transaction. > > Here is a truth that you have failed to consider: Money is the measure > > of a persons worth to society. It always has been. > > I disagree. Gandhi. Beloved by people around the world, and I doubt it is > because a handful of books about him were sold. A martyr is a martyr. I won't deny that. And it's precisely because he fought off British oppression that made him as such. But did he wish everyone in India to be poor? Or did he wish them to be able to be free to prosper? > Einstein. Respected by people who don't know the importance of his work. > Considered the quintescential physicist.. and I doubt relativity has > done much for our economy. We we hit hard-core deep space travel or > some other weird shit and his discoveries start having practical import > in the economic life of Joe Sixpack, I doubt he his popularity is going > to suddenly jump. Popularity isn't necessarily measured by money. See Amadou Diallo for instance. His claim to fame was swallowing 41 pieces of lead. But the truth is econnomic - the pigs that slaughtered him in a way took away his capacity to earn money - a living, and therefore live. By the outright termination of his life. > Hopefully people DO get what they deserve. Hopefully. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Most Americans are so dependent, so hopelessly inurred with the current > > lifestyle that they wouldn't recognize communism if it bit them in the ass. > > Agreed. That is precisely my point -- and yet they condemn it with all > of the passion that the state says a good citizen should. > > 10 minute hate sound familiar? It was the two minutes of hate, and it was from 1984 by George Orwell. > > Lets be real up front here. Unless you have been out to lunch recently > > Communism is an experiment that failed so miserably it exterminated > > almost 100 million human beings last century. If that were a disease > > we would have government funded programs to wipe it out. Actively > > trying to infect people with it would land you in jail. > > Agreed. And I'm not a communist. I'm not arguing for communism; in > fact, I would argue AGAINST it .. but: > > I would not propose to wipe out a disease without having properly studied > it to see whether it was worth wiping out to begin with! > > Neither should men condemn communism if they know nothing about it. Well, in that case, since I do know first hand about communism, you've no reason to claim I've no right to condemn it. And I would condemn it regardless of your oppinion. :) > Good idea -- too bad it isn't always so easy to just up and change your > profession, or go back to school when you have 3 kids. > > Sometimes people make bad choices, I agree -- but I don't agree that one > should have to pay for the rest of their life because of it. But that's the reality of life. Sometimes you make a bad decision and it costs you your job, or your money, or even your life. It's reality. It may suck, but it can't be denied. > No. Let the companies pay for them. If I am going to give them my sweat, > time away from my loved ones and the fruit of my talents and labor the > least they can do is make my life a little more cushy .. or give me > more green up front.. either is acceptable. But if you are going to > scale down the wage, then be prepared to compensate the worker in other > ways. So if you have no job, how would you pay for health benefits for your loved ones? Personally, I'd rather get the money back from the bunch spent on health care so that I can pick and choose my own provider. > My point is merely that I would rather have people who oppose communism > because they understand it, and do not agree, rather than a populace that > hates communism because the State tells them too. I would agree with this, but again, don't defend communism just because the sheeple think it's bad and don't understand it. > First, I'd like to see you argue from the foundations of communism that > socialism/communism REQUIRES such a tyrannical rule. Don't argue history. > Anyone who knows anything about Marx knows he would have hated the USSR > and China. Then I'd like you to argue from the foundation of capitalism that capitalism requires a government such as ours. Don't argue hostory. Anyone who knows anything about Ayn Rand, knows she would have hated our government... -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
I am a little guy, and I come out with a new type of monitor, the > day I open shop and sell them, you can come along with 1000 times the > resources that I have, clone my monitors, produce them at a volume > that I cannot match, and therefore be able to offer them at a lower > price. Intelectual property isn't the problem. Enforcing the rules that grant patents rather than being an rubber stamping open legged whore to anyone who can fill out forms, would fix things. > I don't have the first clue how to prevent this, mind you .. See above. :) -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
oy it promptly. Even so, it's your choice. No one can force you to do anything with it. But, realistically, unless your basic needs are met - food, etc.: you die. Even that is your own choice (regardless of what our fascist government says about the lack of a right to suicide.) > :> since we all know that companies will work your ass 39 hours a week to > :> :> keep you from getting benefits, while maximizing their efficiency. > :> > :> That's the JOB of a corporate entity: it *exists* to make money. The > :> union is no better. Sam is the same... You need to rely *on yourself*. > :> If a company isn't offering what you need, *DON'T SETTLE*, look elsewhere. > :> If everyone did that, the "shitbox job[s]" would come up to the minimum > :> standard which the worker required. > : > :Yup - but 39 hours my ass. I work closer to 60 hours a week. :) > > To use your own paradigm, if this is unacceptable, then your market value > will have to change, or you will have to die a starving artiste' :-) Indeed. I like working that many hours, or I'd go work elsewhere. > :If a wage is equal to it's value, then we're back to capitalism. > > No, not necessarily. You are taking this statement to indicate > value==money. I see a broader value set. > > : A thing is > :worth what people are willing to pay for it. > > Agreed, but with the stipulation that money is only one of many forms of > payment. Look, barter is another form of exchange. A way of saying that I'll give you 50 chickens for your cow, or whatever. Money is an abstraction of this. Whether your exchange gifts, services or beer, ultimately, you CAN put a value on something. You might ask, what's X worth to me, and the answer you give is it's value to you. Quantify that with money or not, but you still measure it's value. > : So how else would you evaluate a > :wage? At that point, how can it be communism, but rather a worker-owned > :company where each worker owns shares of the company? What's this if not an > :even more pure grade of capitalism? > > The two systems do have a *lot* in common you know. Nothing is quite so > black and white. Ideally, communism *is* a worker owned "company". It's > the "pure" capitalist who would barf at this thought. Not at all. Why would I want to own stock in the company I work for otherwise? That doesn't make me a communist. It makes me a capitalist. It's just that I'm one of the owners of the company, and now I have more of an incentive to do a good job since my income depends on how good my work is. It also depends on others, so I will bitch if they fuck up. But the difference is that I do get a slice of the pie back. I don't give up all my personal belongings to a communal pot. I don't get to eat my dinner at a communal kitchen. I get back in payment in proportion to what I put into the system. OTOH, I can't sit on my ass and be a fat cat in luxury. I could in communism if I were one of the "party." Under a communist system I wouldn't even be able to own stock in the company. I'd get thrown in jail for that. The difference comes down to freedom of choice. At no point am I forced to work for a company that I would own a piece of. Under communism, I would be forced to do so - without owning my work, and my job dictated to me from when I'm 18 until I retire. > :Except here, it's a car accident, a .45 in the head, or missile attacking your > :plane. (Vinny Foster, Ronny Brown, etc.) :) > : > > Yes. In an odd way the Soviet system was a little more "honest" about it. > We don't do *nearly* as much of it, but we are so careful to deny what > little we do behind double-speak... Yup, and one of the reasons I'm on this forum is in protest of that kind of extreme form of censorship. But at least here in the USA there is far more freedom. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
Amen brother! Sing it again! Ain't nothing sweeter than freedom. And that's as capitalist as you can get. Now if only Uncle Sam would stop fucking it over with bullshit anti-gun, anti-speech, insane taxes, and pro-bureocractic regulation bullshit laws! Curtis Fockler wrote: > > Come on out of the basement boys. > > Try North Korea and Cuba for a commie view, for all you socialist, take a > look at European friends, yeah that works well, or maybe take a look at what > the bitch wanted to do with health care, thank-you freaks who put that pair > in office. > Lets take a look over to the sandy shore and and see what nerve gas they are > testing on their people today. > > People and the right, yeah, I think the USA is good enough for me. Yeah we > have Waco, Ruby ridge and all the crap. But we are able to have all the crap > and play a role in it if we want. > > Try that somewhere else in the world and see what happens. > > Freedom baby, sing it loud and proud, some people don't get to pick, but I > do, and I pick freedom baby, sweet freedom. > > P.S. and to all those that bitch about having a choice, LEAVE... > > take care and protect that freedom... > > And if you get a chance to travel abroad and experience some of other > people's freedom in the world, do it and lets see you bitch about something > you know nothing about. > > Oh yeah, what ever go god you believe in loves you, try that somewhere else, > I know, I know, don't mix the pol& relg, > sorry -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: The price of bread in Romania
Jim Choate wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Marcel Popescu wrote: > > > Er... what part of "feudalism is a form of socialism" you don't understand? > > None of it since they're not the same thing at all > > Socialism is the ownership and management of all property by the state > with the elimination of private property. > > Feudalism is the situation where within a geographic area EVERYTHING is > property and owned by a single INDIVIDUAL. > > Why you would claim they're equivalent is mind boggling. Oh, wait. I get > it. If the only tool you have is a hammer then everything looks like a > nail. Erm, it is the same thing if you happen to be the worker/serf. You are owned and anything you have in your possession isn't yours. It doesn't matter much whether it's the Lord or the Party that owns it. What does matter is that you don't. :) The flip side is also true to some extent. The members of "Party" can be thought of the same way as the Lords. They all report to the king or chairman, but they enjoy luxury and power while the workers/serfs don't. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: Offshore Banks to be Excommunicated
Tim May wrote: > > Too bad Orwell did not live to see this. The U.S. complaining that Russian > money flowing into banks into Dominica and Antigua is under the > jurisdiciton of the U.S. > > Why have the freedom fighters not yet released the anthrax over that swamp > on the Potoimac? Five million dead rodents is a good start. A better question might be "What Freedom Fighters?" -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos ---- + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: why worry?)
quot;shitbox job[s]" would come up to the minimum > standard which the worker required. Yup - but 39 hours my ass. I work closer to 60 hours a week. :) But I don't mind it much, it's not lacking in things to do. It's better than being at home with nothing to do but watching anti-drug TV propaganda. > :> Capitalism, with its emphasis on the profit margin can't always afford > :> to give the working poor a decent wage, therefore we need social programs > :> to help the honest, working poor. > > Read any Ayn Rand lately? A little bit of enlighted self-interest would > go a LONG way towards equalizzing the playing fields... WITHOUT theft > (whether by Sam or Mega-Conglomerate Inc.). Yup, totally agree with you there. > :And communism can give the working poor a decent wage? > > I've never been convinced of this, even assuming a "utopian" Communist > system such as existed at Oneida. Remember, under "the real thing", a > wage should be equal to it's value, not to the existence of the person > "working" for it. Restated, even Communism acknowledges that a wage > should not accrete to a worker who does not provide value. If a wage is equal to it's value, then we're back to capitalism. A thing is worth what people are willing to pay for it. So how else would you evaluate a wage? At that point, how can it be communism, but rather a worker-owned company where each worker owns shares of the company? What's this if not an even more pure grade of capitalism? > I'm not sure that's the actual reason for the low wage, although it may be > the reason for the lack of action(s) to otherwise raise the standard of > living "enjoyed" by these peoples. It might not even be the "standard of living" making for the disparity, but rather the value of the dollar versus the value of the local currency. Sure, these guys make $20 a month, but that $20 a month would buy them as much as our $2000 would (sans some things that they don't have in their economy, but I'm talking about staple necessities such as food, clothing, housing.) > :Juvenal is saying "who watches the elites?". In any communist system "those > :who know best" must be watched. Of course as soon as you watch them you > :start your vacation in beautiful sunny Siberia. And that is a one-way > :ticket. > > We have that here as well you know. We just aren't quite as open about > it. Except here, it's a car accident, a .45 in the head, or missile attacking your plane. (Vinny Foster, Ronny Brown, etc.) :) -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Re: damn commie hypocrite leech! (was Re: Re: Re: whyworry?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm not saying that life isn't hard. I'm not saying that life is ever
> going to be easy -- but I'd like to make a society that cushions it as
> much as we can. Thats why we get together and make societies in the first
> place .. to make life easier for individuals; a burden shared together
> is less of a burden.
Is it really though? A burden shared is now a burden on everyone at a much
lower intensity. If everyone at some point has a burdern, that intensity
heightens, and heightens, etc.
> If I had no job, and no real decent job prospects; I'd probably be a
> small time drug dealer. A little risky ('cause of the cops) but it turns
> a good profit -- and then I could pay the bills.
Whatever. But you'd find something to do.
> Like I said, give me the benefits or the money .. either is acceptable.
Agreed. But better yet, don't take my money and let me buy my own benefits.
--
---- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos
+ ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\
\|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\
<--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/
/|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/
+ v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ.
http://www.sunder.net ---
I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Thermal tracking of supermarket clients & Reno reaming the press
http://www.theregister.co.uk/000309-06.html IBM to test people-sniffing tech in UK supermarket chain IBM is planning to unleash people-sniffing technology on supermarket shoppers, according to a report at beyond2000.com. The "Footprints" system equips the supermarket (or any other location you might fancy) with arrays of thermal sensors, which then track the movements of individual consumers throughout the store. Not a lot of people know it, but your thermal signature is aparently sufficiently individual for it to work as an identifier in this context. You can therefore be "followed" around the store, and it's manifestly clear that the store owners will be just gagging for extra information they can use to maximise the value of the data they're picking up. and http://www.theregister.co.uk/000309-11.html Janet Reno would curb press freedom on line Constitutional protections of the press are getting in the way of cyber-crime prosecutions and may have to be reconsidered, a White House committee chaired by US Attorney General Janet Reno believes. "With the advent of the Internet and widespread computer use, almost any computer can be used to 'publish' material. As a result, the [Privacy Protection Act of 1980 (PPA)] may now apply to almost any search of any computer," the committee's report laments. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Now you know the spooking has gone too far...
My, my, the propaganda being spewed out these days... Or is this poetic justice, but I'm too jaded to see it as such? http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSHeyMartha0004/10_spies.html (Don't bother, here's the full text, it's nice and short...): Report: Eavesdropping damaged spies hearing LONDON (AP) -- More than a hundred British intelligence officers have been compensated for hearing loss caused by too much eavesdropping on the enemy, The Sunday Telegraph reported. A government spokeswoman offered no immediate comment on the report that staff at the Government Communications Headquarters -- the agency that monitors global communications -- had suffered hearing loss while listening to "enemy emissions." The center at Cheltenham, 90 miles northwest of London, employs some 4,000 people including code breakers, computer experts and linguists. The Sunday Telegraph said staff blamed inadequate headphones -- which have since been replaced -- for the hearing damage. Staff "turned the volume up to full if foreign transmissions were difficult to understand. Some transmissions were accompanied by constant buzzing and crackling," the newspaper said. New headphones, introduced in 1995, came too late for operators who worked at the center during the height of the Cold War, the newspaper said. Individual staff have received compensation payments of up to $31,800, the report said. -- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. http://www.sunder.net --- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
Re: Pgpdisk, Scramdisk, Safehouse, KOH, SecureDrive, SecureDevice.etc
I use Safehouse, with Blowfish 443, but I can't speak for its security as I don't have source (commercial product). Seems to work fine. Beware that you disable disk compression on the host disk where you store Safehouse's disk images, or you'll get weird errors. So far the only drawback to Safehouse is that it will only format as FAT, so you waste a lot of space on huge clusters, but the nice thing is that it will grow the disk as needed. If you could format it as NTFS, it would be much better since you'd be able to format the volumes with compression. (Of course NT wouldn't let you unmount them without a fuss, but I digress.) It has a nice feature that if you lock your workstation, it unmounts your disks. This is good, but be sure to quit your mailer before you lock your machine, or it will freak out. :) Now, if someone installs a keyboard capture device I'm fucked as they'll have the passphrase, so that's a hole to watch for. Inspect your keyboard, swap it often, look for tampered files, etc. Crack open the case, make sure there's no bugs inside, etc. How I get my mail: ssh tunnel for port 25 and 110 into my mail server, pop3 incoming mail, SMTP outgoing mail. Mail is stored on Safehouse disk. All mail to/from my server goes encrypted. (Of course between SMTP servers, that's another story, but, there's PGP for that.) Works fine. On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Gary Jeffers wrote: >My fellow Cypherpunks, > >Bill Stewart speaks of Pgpdisk, Scramdisk, & Safehouse. I am un- > familiar with these disk encryptors. Would some people like to > review disk encryptors that they are familiar with? Also, to include > SecureDrive, SecureDevice, & KOH. > >Which ones are secure? Which ones are well regarded? Which ones > include source code? What algorithms? Which is the best? > >Note: PGP alone is not good enough to secure data on a computer. > PGP is great for transmission but not for storage. Disk encryptors > are required for secure storage. > > Yours Truly, > Gary Jeffers > > BEAT STATE !!! > __ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >
Technology boosts government wiretaps
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cth831.htm Technology boosts government wiretaps Fax machines, cell phones, pagers and e-mail targeted By Richard Willing, USA TODAY WASHINGTON - Wiretaps ordered by federal and state authorities on cell phones, pagers, fax machines and e-mail increased by nearly 20% last year, pushing the total number of government wiretaps to a record 1,350. Traditional wiretaps, such as microphones hidden in walls and "bugs" planted on telephone lines, account for about one-third of all surveillance devices, according to an annual wiretap survey released Tuesday by the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. Among the report's other findings: Wiretaps sought by state and local authorities declined by 2% last year, the first such decrease since 1995. The overall increase in wiretaps produced more arrests in 1999 but a lower conviction rate, about 15%. Five states - New York, California, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Illinois - accounted for 81% of all state-ordered wiretaps approved last year. Fourteen of the 42 states that authorize wiretaps ordered no taps. Federal agents sought authority for seven e-mail taps last year, two more than in 1998. -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Re: Re: Sealand rant (pragmas)
Tim May wrote: > If files are not traceable back to Sealand, then Sealand is not > needed. The file servers could be in Sunnyvale or London. > > If files are traceable back to Sealand, then Sealand will have to > deal with Interpol, Islamic fatwahs, etc. > > I wish them well, but it all looks like a short-lived gimmick. Good > for P.R., not good as a long-term business. Yup, and I don't see much of a way around it. Say they use gnutella as a distro model, or eternity. The fact that their physical location is being advertised is enough to invite the jihads. GNUtella might just be the right way to pull something like this off, but with a wide enough scope of network traffic analysis you can catch everyone in the chain. What the UK is proposing will catch all in the UK using it. I suppose Echelon will catch the rest... So the question is how does one build a system to get around extereme traffic analysis at every node? Onion is one way, but if you connect to it, you're a suspect, etc. -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
FBI wiretaps increased on Y2K pretext
FBI wiretaps increased on Y2K pretext By: Thomas C Greene in Washington Posted: 12/06/2000 at 12:40 GMT http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/11308.html > The US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA), which restricts some >government surveillance related to terrorist investigations, was massaged >considerably during the Millennium rollover to enable quick and dirty wiretaps of US >residents who would otherwise have been beyond its authority, National Commission on >Terrorism Chairman Paul Bremer revealed during testimony before the Senate >Intelligence Committee last week. -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Re: cp sunder
No, I don't think so. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, Greg Newby wrote: > who cypherpunks > lists >
Re: RE: Carnivore - Matt Blaze testimony
Ernest, what kind of fascist or socialist country do you think you're living in? Haven't you learned anything from the likes of our John Young? This is the USA the last time I checked. The government can't legally force you to do things and keep your mouth shut. Can you imagine how much more heat the FBI would be getting under their asses right now if they tried to hide such things? All it would take is one brave soul running to the press and they'd have a revolt on their hands. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Ernest Hua wrote: > > It's hopeless. Only technology, and terrorism, will work. > ^ > > Ahem ... trying to feed Carnivore? > > The biggest lesson the FBI has learned is that they should > have kept this damn thing secret. Slap secrecy orders on > everyone. Make 'em sign all sorts of nondisclosure etc ... > > I doubt any bureaucracy will learn to be "nicer" and more > "open". They just learn to find a new way around the old > obstacles. > > Ern >
Re:
David Patterson wrote: > > hey cypherpunks how do you make mail bombs? > > __ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Yaw dooode, we make'em booobs rel gd. They be the baddest most motherfuckingest booombs there iz. Here's the way we make'em: http://bofh.ntk.net/Cake.html"> http://bofh.ntk.net/Cake.html -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Microsoft using advertising the way Outlook/IE viruses do.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/13571.html Microsoft using advertising the way Outlook/IE viruses do. -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Re:
Mike Binas wrote: > > can you please send me some credit card numbers. Sure here are the numbers to call for CC's: 1-800-955-7070 1-800-950-5114 1 716 841 2424 1-800-359-3557 ext. 900 -- --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
