A member at our website is looking for opinions about - cpunks@minder.net
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Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 10:02:56PM -0800, James A. Donald wrote: And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? Because not only you're an evil fuck, but you're letting the others know you're an evil fuck. Now that is stupid. Look into historic records... -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpcYNaBqoTZl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
At 10:02 PM 11/23/2004, James A. Donald wrote: And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? Well, once you get past the invalid and dishonest parts of Bush's 57 reasons We Need to Invade Iraq Right Now (WMDs, Al-Qaeda, Tried to kill Bush's Daddy, etc.) you're pretty much left with Saddam tried to kill Bush's Daddy and Replacing the EEEVil dictator Saddam with a Democracy to protect the Iraqi people. Pulling off the latter requires that you leave them with something better than a civil war, though it's not clear that what they're getting right now _is_ better than a civil war.
avoid embarassment
http://ozn.mndbbc.com/ Thousands of Ukrainians Refuse to Accept Election ResultsBy C. J. CHIVERS Published: November 23, 2004 KIEV, Ukraine, Nov. 23 - Mass demonstrations against the preliminary count of the presidential election in Ukraine expanded today in the capital, as the opposition candidate and official loser, Viktor A. Yushchenko, declared himself the winner and tried without success to force the Parliament to invalidate the official results.Advertisement Mr. Yushchenko's supporters swarmed through the streets, staging simultaneous and highly organized rallies at both Independence Square and at the entrance to the Supreme Rada, Ukraine's 450-seat Parliament. Their numbers were visibly larger than the day before, when tens of thousands of demonstrators chanted slogans against the government; newly arrived demonstrators said they had come to the capital from outlying regions to support the opposition at a critical time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 iD8DBQFBo5PEcC3lWbTT17ARAuXRAKCaDhWng6i+iy284PlFevWwYeS8gACfT4ZS EPX1EmtgtLatyU5J3Xnc/gA=S5Jo -END PGP SIGNATURE- 0001.gif
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[osint] How al-Qaeda's London plot was foiled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - --- begin forwarded text To: Bruce Tefft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thread-Index: AcTRvPl/4TehnAnvQQGTeYb2oxIivgAaHPCg From: Bruce Tefft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:00:08 -0500 Subject: [osint] How al-Qaeda's London plot was foiled Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1372124,00.html November 24, 2004 How al-Qaeda's London plot was foiled By Michael Evans and Sean O'Neill AL-QAEDA terrorists had to abandon a plan to fly hijacked airliners into Canary Wharf, the London skyscraper, and Heathrow airport after being rumbled by British and European intelligence services. The plot was made public this year but senior Whitehall sources gave further details yesterday of the intelligence work involved. Reports on ITV News and in a newspaper implied that the attacks had been thwarted recently. But, the sources said, the intelligence operation was in fact completed at least two years ago. Plots against Canary Wharf, in London Docklands, and Heathrow were confirmed in July when intelligence officers in Pakistan found incriminating files on computers that belonged to one of al-Qaeda's members. Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan, 25, a suspected terrorist arrested after a raid in Lahore, Pakistan, was at the centre of al-Qaeda's computer communications hub. He encrypted and distributed messages between the network's leadership and agents around the world. Among the files on Khan's computers were a plan of the layout of Heathrow and information from reconnaissance of the Canary Wharf complex, including vehicle height restrictions for the underground car parks there. There were also suggestions for picture postcard targets, such as the Houses of Parliament and Windsor Castle, and discussions of potential assassination targets. But the plots referred mainly to planning that pre-dated the attacks in New York and Washington on September 11, 2001. Whitehall sources said that a huge intelligence operation was also mounted after Sept-ember 11 when it was feared that al-Qaeda would try a similar hijacking over Britain. The sources said that there was credible intelligence that al-Qaeda planners were preparing to send a hijacking team to the UK. To foil the terrorists, checks were carried out at airports and flying schools in Britain and also in countries in Central and Eastern Europe, from where it was believed that al-Qaeda members might set off. Further checks on flying schools have been carried out in the past six months as part of continuing anti-terrorist operations. They were rumbled, a source said. We believe that al-Qaeda recognised that aviation security in the UK was too tight for a repeat of the September 11 attacks in this country and that it was too difficult to hijack an aircraft in our airspace. Our firm belief is that the Heathrow and Canary Wharf plot is no longer extant. There is absolutely no evidence of any recent plotting against either of these targets. All the intelligence we had dates back at least two years. Some of the key people who were involved in planning the Heathrow and Canary Wharf plots were also by now either deceased or arrested. The arrests had taken place outside Britain. Anti-terrorist agencies also said that there was no intelligence of any current suicide hijacking plot against targets in Britain. Scotland Yard sources were bemused by suggestions of a current plot. Downing Street and the Home Office, stinging from reports that ministers are trying to create a climate of fear before next year's election, distanced themselves from the story. A police source said: If there was information that Canary Wharf was to be attacked, then I think that we would know. There is no credence to reports of any current threat. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/TySplB/TM - ~- - -- Want to discuss this topic? Head on over to our discussion list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Brooks Isoldi, editor [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.intellnet.org Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message contains copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. OSINT, as a part of The Intelligence Network, is making it available without profit to OSINT YahooGroups members who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information in their efforts to advance the understanding of intelligence and law enforcement organizations, their activities, methods,
U.S., Europe still tweaking anti-terror tech
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://www.menafn.com/qn_print.asp?StoryID=CqAld0eidDxmTzxuTCgfZC3bVCNrZ MENAFN - Middle East North Africa . Financial Network U.S., Europe still tweaking anti-terror tech UPI - UPI - Tuesday, November 23, 2004 Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:28:15 PM EST By DONNA BORAK WASHINGTON, Nov. 23 (UPI) -- U.S. and European officials said they may encounter more problems implementing new anti-terrorism measures, including the no-fly list of passengers banned from U.S. airlines and biometric passports, but are working together on the issue. The viability of such anti-terror technology is important to the U.S. travel industry, which was dealt a severe blow after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. In fact, the Travel Industry Association of America said Monday that as part of the fiscal year 2005 omnibus spending package Congress had included $10 million to promote the United States as an international travel destination. Last Saturday an international flight from Paris to California was diverted to Bangor, Maine because a Moroccan passenger was discovered to be on the U.S. no-fly list after the plane had taken off. Senior Department of Homeland Security officials warned on Monday that problems with the no-fly list would likely continue even when their new computerized screening system was put in place next year. Obviously, you want the system to work perfectly. I don't know that when you have systems built upon human information and human responses that you are ever going to have a perfect system, said Asa Hutchinson, DHS undersecretary for border and transportation security. Hutchinson faulted the current advance passenger information system, human error and ineffective technology for the security failure. We have to build a better system design that will greatly reduce and minimize these types of incidents from happening ... You also have to build a system that is capable of responding, (has) good checks and balances, and has layered defenses that is not reliant on one particular system, Hutchinson said at a joint press conference with John Faull, the European Union's director general for Justice and Home Affairs. Expected changes include a revamp of the current advance passenger information system. Currently, airlines are not capable of matching passengers with terrorist-watch lists until 15 minutes after takeoff. The obvious goal is to prevent suspect individuals from boarding at all. In addition to faster matching against terrorist-watch lists, the new system would integrate U.S. and European anti-terror efforts. Hutchinson suggested that the new biometric passport and multilateral efforts among nations would be the solution to alleviating further security failures. Biometric devices were among the 9/11 Commission recommendations. Passports of people entering the United States would be required to contain a special type of computer chip, known as RFID or radio-frequency identification. The chip would contain a digitized facial image of the bearer. Current rules would require them by October 2005. Such biometric passports and visas will help government officials authenticate documents and potentially identify terrorists, officials said. Hutchinson explained that the United States would be aggressively working with its European allies to meet the deadline, but the emphasis on testing would be first priority, before any passports were issued. Obviously, that has to be completed before production is implemented, said Hutchinson. Last month, the DHS was granted a yearlong extension till the October 2005 deadline. It initially requested two years. We are working very hard to meet the deadline, said Hutchinson. The European Union agreed in October to use biometric passports. EU Director Faull said that the decision to utilize biometric passports was not the result of pressure by the United States, but a common-sense decision in the face of a common threat. These are problems that cannot be solved unilaterally, said Hutchinson. It is expected that the United States will demand visas from 27 countries if they do not have biometric passports by October 2005. According to Faull, production has already started on biometric passports and it is expected that the first will be ready in 18 months. Faull explained that there were a number of challenges facing the two parties, but that both were working together to resolve any issues. At the press conference, Hutchinson characterized talks with European Union officials as frank and open. In our discussions it is clear to me, that the European Union has accelerated their counter-terrorism efforts and we are grateful for that, he said, adding that the United States and the EU share common concerns about terrorism. - -- - - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ...
Government watchdog to investigate election
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://news.com.com/2102-1028_3-5464969.html?tag=st.util.print CNET News http://www.news.com/ Government watchdog to investigate election By Robert Lemos http://news.com.com/Government+watchdog+to+investigate+election/2100-1028_3-5464969.html Story last modified Tue Nov 23 13:47:00 PST 2004 The Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of the U.S. Congress, will investigate anomalies in the November election at the request of five Democratic representatives. In two letters, sent Nov. 5 and Nov. 8, Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., asked that the GAO investigate various complaints about election machine technology and procedural issues preventing some votes from being counted. Two other members of the House of Representatives, Robert Scott, D-Va., and Rush Holt, D-N.J., signed the Nov. 8 letter. On its own authority, the GAO will examine the security and accuracy of voting technologies, distribution and allocation of voting machines, and counting of provisional ballots, the five members of the House said in statement Tuesday. We are hopeful that GAO's nonpartisan and expert analysis will get to the bottom of the flaws uncovered in the 2004 election. The lawmakers provided to the GAO some 57,000 incident reports that had been received by the House Judiciary Committee. While most observers have concluded that election technology performed reasonably well in the last election, a variety of anomalies have cropped up. In Ohio, President Bush received a boost of some 4,000 votes in the preliminary tallies due to a transmission error. Data from Florida has raised eyebrows and led to at least one analysis that claimed the result of voting there is statistically implausible. The congressmen asked the GAO to move quickly while there was still evidence from the election to analyze. There is substantial concern that much of the primary evidence needed to evaluate these allegations will not be preserved without immediate action, the representatives argued in the Nov. 8 letter. Eight other members of the House of Representatives gave their support to the GAO request as well, the congressmen said in their statement. - -- - - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 1308 iQA/AwUBQaSqrcPxH8jf3ohaEQIs7gCggMXVNNT/qU2IW6QGs5O1plHS7kMAoISG qEH7cKYcjS3taS4nvAKdQp/N =hdbe -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
James A Donald wrote... And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? And the answer is: 9/11 sucked. Oh wait, I guess I have to explain that. After the Soviets were pushed out of Afghanistan the place became a veritable breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, and so on. Iraq would likely denigrate into the same, eventually launching similarly nice little activities. -TD
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 12:08:37PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Oh wait, I guess I have to explain that. After the Soviets were pushed out of Afghanistan the place became a veritable breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, and so on. Iraq would likely denigrate into the same, eventually launching similarly nice little activities. What do you think the Iraq shenanigan has done to US's prestige? Nevermind terrorists, we're talking hard cold cash here. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpq1lmYF0PMF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
From: James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 24, 2004 1:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report ... And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? At least three: a. The pottery barn theory of foreign affairs--we'd be blamed for making things worse. (I don't know how much this matters long term, but it would certainly have made life pretty hard on Tony Blair and the rest of the world leaders who actually supported us.) b. We would one day like their oil back on the market. c. We would like to make sure that the next regime to come to power there isn't someone we also feel obligated to get rid of, as even invasions done on the cheap cost a lot of money. --digsig James A. Donald --John
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
From: Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 24, 2004 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report James A Donald wrote... And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? And the answer is: 9/11 sucked. Oh wait, I guess I have to explain that. After the Soviets were pushed out of Afghanistan the place became a veritable breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, and so on. Iraq would likely denigrate into the same, eventually launching similarly nice little activities. Well, I'm sure glad we avoided having Iraq become a breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, etc. Also that we avoided it becoming a place that trains people in how to carry out effective guerrilla warfare against US troops. We sure dodged a bullet there -TD --John
The Fall of Reason
http://www.daralhayat.net/actions/print2.php The Fall of Reason Paul Forest Dar Al-Hayat 2004/11/23 Condoleezza Rice is the latest cabinet member to gush out of the oil patch. She is an obvious choice as Secretary of State for President Bush, who is disenchanted with General Powell's ability to mouth the words given to him by the White House spin barons, and yet, convey the impression that he is not really comfortable as a bearer of false tidings. With Dr. Rice, President Bush will be admirably served. Obviously an extremely articulate illusionist, at the time of the Iraq justification period, she was in the foxhole shooting back at all proponents of factuality and, actually, did get in some good shots, when judged more on intellectual acrobatics than accuracy. Of her many masterful quotes, one stands out: Whoever's fault it is, it is certainly not mine, unless you think it's the President's, in which case it's mine. It is doubtful that the international world of diplomacy will understand her nomination and doubtlessly accept credentials, which they can so clearly identify as that of a studious perpetrator of deceit. She is unlikely to abandon her credo of: Our truth above all, and while trying to outdo herself, she will preside over the destitution of what remains of U.S. integrity. Few people doubt, that her assertions that this administration's sole objective was to surgically remove Saddam Hussein, would have received ample support from the majority of Arab states. It seems self-evident, however, that despite the U.S. air strike success in Kosovo, the Bush Administration nurtured a hidden agenda that required massive intervention by ground forces, and the establishment of a loyal and friendly new controlling block in Iraq. This machination was conceived as a manner of controlling a sufficient amount of world oil reserves, for the U.S. to be a significant factor in the world price for oil. In modern history, as well as present times, there are numerous examples of dominant powers and individuals, venting their anger on the innocent when the true culprits are beyond their reach. The U.S. military and the current administration at some point, must have decided that using a surgical knife is not time effective when seeking to carve out for itself a sizable niche in the world's most desirable geography. It is truly amazing that when a despicable act is perpetrated by the U.S. military, whether in a prison or as recently, in a Mosque, a camera appeared to have been pointed at the malefactors. We may ask ourselves, is this the superior work of talented embedded cameramen, or could the camera have been pointed anywhere with matching results? These barbarian acts have considerably traumatized much of the world community of Arab and Muslim nations, which are now firmly convinced that the President's war of vindictiveness may have been intended to dislodge Saddam Hussein and his regime, but as much thought went into humanitarian concerns for the population, as in the governance of a post-war Iraq, very little. The shortsighted view is that terrorism will once again strike U.S. soil, and recent utterances by the Sultan of Terror confirm that this is in fact their intent. Should a disastrous terrorist act again occur on U.S. soil, the fear mongers in the White House will then feel vindicated by the tangible validation of their long-held views, and they will point fingers at their detractors. These, in turn, will likely respond that a more conciliatory attitude by the administration towards the Arab and Muslim people, replacing the current militaristic course of action, might well have prevented that which by then will have taken place. The longer-term implications, however, are that Arab investments in the U.S., which are now valued near 2 trillion dollars, will dry up, and may in fact be downsized in favor of investments in the growing, potentially friendly and peaceful European Community, whose currency appears destined to supplant the Dollar as the principle world currency. The U.S. treasury and financial markets have been surviving on a steady influx of outside capital, and will be caught in a war of financial attrition which they are not in a position to win. Israel's well-being is directly linked to American benevolence and the Israeli Government may discover the wisdom of having a greater array of able and willing supporters. A considerable concentration of American Jewish wealth and influence has been creatively positioned in the American National Media, and this condition does not exist in any other nation. This was unmistakably exhibited recently in a promo on itself by CNN, in which they present, as most trustworthy, six of their regular hosts, of which four are of Jewish legacy. Simple calculation reveals that since American Jews represent 2% of the total American population, the selected hosts amounted to 33 times the proportional representation within the American population.
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
At 1:05 PM -0500 11/24/04, John Kelsey wrote: effective guerrilla warfare against US troops. Uh, huh...Just for fun, see the title of this thread. ;-) Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
Associated Press has pre-issued a Thanksgiving Day photo of a former US soldier who lost a leg, participating in a photo op at a military base. Secdef and CJCS issued pre-holiday thanks yesterday to the families of the military dead and to the wounded and maimed in hospitals and on photo op tours. Today Secdef was on Laura Ingraham gushing (slobber not blood) about the AmericaSupportsYou.mil website where red-blooded Americans can participate in thanksgiving the Iraq bloodletting, praising the headless and limbless and scared shitless and McVeigh-mad-dogs yearning-to-frag-backhome-warfighters. AP has nearly stopped showing valorous warriors in combat in Iraq, now its mostly photos of funerals and the dead in cheerful high school pictures and dress-uniformed headshots, oops, head shots are no, no's, except for the hardbitten would-be warriors here sitting fat and happy before the keyboard tapping for more killing, right James, civil war over there is hunky dory, but please not an RPG invading your computer bubble, an IED making your kids into rag dolls. Overseas wars are delightful movie-land fun from over here, Secdef croons -- gobble, gobble, Sergeant York called for the Secdef's curious-head pop-up. Seen the Norwegian site that calls for Bush's head shot? Two URLs, the last vivid: http://www.killhim.nu/ http://killhimwith.bazooka.at/once/
SSRN- Deworming the Internet by Douglas Barnes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=622364 SSRN Deworming the Internet DOUGLAS BARNES University of Texas at Austin - School of Law Texas Law Review, Vol. 83, No. 1 Abstract: Both law enforcement and markets for software standards have failed to solve the problem of software that is vulnerable to infection by network-transmitted worms. Consequently, regulatory attention should turn to the publishers of worm-vulnerable software. Although ordinary tort liability for software publishers may seem attractive, it would interact in unpredictable ways with the winner-take-all nature of competition among publishers of mass-market, internet-connected software. More tailored solutions are called for, including mandatory bug bounties for those who find potential vulnerabilities in software, minimum quality standards for software, and, once the underlying market failure is remedied, liability for end users who persist in using worm-vulnerable software. Keywords: Worms, viruses, software, market failure, network externality, negative externality, perverse incentives, tort liability, lemons equilibrium, regulation JEL Classifications: K29, K13, L86, 031 Accepted Paper Series Abstract has been viewed 392 times Contact Information for DOUGLAS BARNES (Contact Author) Email address for DOUGLAS BARNES University of Texas at Austin - School of Law 727 East Dean Keeton Street Austin , TX 78705 United States 512-689-1875 (Phone) Suggested Citation Barnes, Douglas A, Deworming the Internet . Texas Law Review, Vol. 83, No. 1 http://ssrn.com/abstract=622364 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 9.0 (Build 1336) Beta - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBQaTwysUCGwxmWcHhAQEAnAf5AQO9G8LuuKg1CFYHOnRflT68YX9w6xhp nt0csgWW0dxso9n7T1kMtGzZRDr/G5kdz+IVqHg2qjjzQajf7Ni50/mjRN48tJko vr3TeSWU4cX2yKTPJE56tc27uY534IHc5eBWxtprLagMIGfokNQeGZPT8S4OLzxL H/a9lTIQknHMtOA1HoRXodX252xn5II3AwLOZrC4gnap1R9mfkXOtdB6ChlXD11n hpN7g1A1CTkWE/74NiSEROJdk2oeJS2K0aks2dqMK59tI5KLteePpJGN8DfP0yUv 0HaFKUPFiS1yAzNtTj/J4VLog84Lofel6+rwaKIHCEXvB6nHvFN5SA== =xwLk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Homeland Security's Request For Student Data Stirs Concern
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB110125761251482555,00.html The Wall Street Journal November 24, 2004 POLITICS AND POLICY Homeland Security's Request For Student Data Stirs Concern By ALONSO SOTO and ROBERT BLOCK Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL November 24, 2004; Page A4 WASHINGTON -- A Homeland Security Department campaign to make schoolchildren better prepared for terrorist attacks is raising concerns about making them more vulnerable to identity theft as well. The department's preparedness form, which went out as part of the Ready campaign in September and October, asks that students in junior and senior high school carry around a form that includes their Social Security number, birth date and home address, as well those of their parents and siblings. The move first caused an outcry in Rhode Island when a consumer fraud investigator brought it to the attention of Patrick Lynch, the state attorney general. Mr. Lynch responded by firing off a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge requesting that he revise the form immediately. While I do agree that it is important for families to have a plan in the event of an emergency, I believe this particular form is capable of more harm than good, he said in the letter dated Oct. 14. He said he was particularly concerned about the part of the form that exhorts: Take this out of your agenda, fill it out with family and make copies to keep in your schoolbag and in visible locations at home. Mr. Lynch said that asking children to carry around such information was an invitation to identity thieves because teenagers frequently lose or misplace their backpacks. Mr. Lynch said in a phone interview yesterday that he has yet to receive any response from Homeland Security. Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse denied that the government was encouraging identity theft, saying that people worried about such problems could choose to leave the sensitive entries blank. People can choose to include whatever information on the forms they like, he said. Several Homeland Security programs have drawn criticism and privacy complaints from civil activists over the past two years. The agency says that such measures need to be taken to protect Americans from terrorist plots. Homeland Security officials declined to say how many student planners with the forms were sent around the country, but say that they have removed the sentence encouraging students to keep copies of the forms in their backpacks from the latest version. However, space for the family Social Security numbers is still included. Mr. Roehrkasse said that forms which will be sent to younger children later this year won't include space for Social Security information. Barry Steinhardt, the director of the American Civil Liberties Union Liberty Project, said Homeland Security was grossly irresponsible for the form, saying that it should know that identify theft is an epidemic in the country and their actions would only make it easier for thieves. I hope this was just a misjudgment by the department and not a concealed attempt to collect data, he said. According to the Federal Trade Commission, the problem of identity theft cost Americans nearly $43 billion last year. Identity theft is also of major concern to federal law-enforcement officials because it could help terrorists disguise their activities. In addition to complaining to Mr. Ridge, Mr. Lynch wrote to Rhode Island's state director of Homeland Security affairs and to the superintendents of each of the state's school systems asking them to disregard the Homeland form. We don't want children, we don't want adults, we don't want anybody giving up their Social Security numbers, he said. -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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Where Did Arafat Stash the Money?
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB110124561472582236,00.html The Wall Street Journal November 24, 2004 WORLD NEWS Where Did Arafat Stash the Money? For Palestinian Authority, Credibility Could Depend On Tracking Down Funds By FARNAZ FASSIHI Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL November 24, 2004; Page A11 RAMALLAH, West Bank -- As the Palestinian Authority enters the post-Yasser Arafat era, the tracking down of funds controlled by the deceased leader -- rumored to be in the tens of millions of dollars -- will affect the authority's credibility at home and abroad and the potential for clashes among its factions. Some Palestinian officials already have called for questioning of Mr. Arafat's closest aides, and now interim successors, Mahmoud Abbas and Ahmad Qurei, and his wife, Suha Arafat. Officials have pledged to determine exactly the amount and location of the money. This week, a statement issued by the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militant group in the West Bank, warned the new government of corruption among some top officials and vowed to take the law into its own hands if action isn't taken within a month. Officially, the money is supposed to be with the Finance Ministry, but millions of dollars are invested around the world and no one knows where they are, said Hassan Khreisheh, first deputy speaker of the legislative council who has led several probes into government-corruption charges. This is unacceptable to any Palestinian. Over the decades, as Mr. Arafat carried the flag of the Palestinian struggle, he accumulated money donated by countries, businesses and individuals to support his movement and help the Palestinian people. Until the Persian Gulf War in 1991, Gulf countries donated millions of dollars a year to the Palestinian cause, and Saudi Arabia alone sent an annual check of $50 million, or about ¤38 million, a year to Mr. Arafat. He used this money to support Palestinian refugees in Arab countries, as well as to fund some of the security groups within the Palestine Liberation Organization, the umbrella organization headed and controlled by Mr. Arafat. Aid from Gulf countries slowly diminished after Mr. Arafat backed Saddam Hussein's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, but Mr. Hussein stepped in to make up for lost income. The money was stashed in foreign bank accounts, with some invested in commercial entities around the world. The International Monetary Fund in a September 2003 report said that from 1995 to 2000, the Palestinian Authority's assets may have exceeded $898 million. That report concluded that much of its revenue from taxes was invested in a variety of commercial enterprises that nominally belonged to the authority, but that the substantial revenue they generated was being diverted, as was revenue from monopoly contracts for cement and petroleum. The report said the enterprises operated with no transparency or accountability. Under the arrangement worked out through the 1994 Oslo Accord, Israel collected value-added and excise taxes on purchases by Palestinians, and was to remit the money to the Palestinian Authority. But money -- particularly from excise taxes on petroleum, tobacco and alcohol -- was diverted, some to an account in a Bank Leumi branch in Tel Aviv, the report said. Mr. Arafat and his financial adviser, Mohammad Rachid, controlled the account, according to the IMF. A major overhaul launched in 2002 by the new minister of finance, Salem Fayyad, succeeded in transferring control of the bulk of assets from Mr. Arafat to the government. Since January 2003, all funds have been separated into two categories: the Palestinian Authority's assets of $300 million to $700 million in 79 commercial ventures, the largest being a telecommunication company operating in Algeria and Tunisia, which is now considered public money; and the PLO's money, whose sum remains a mystery but is estimated in the tens of millions of dollars by independent auditors who investigated the funds. Under political pressure from donor countries, Mr. Arafat agreed the authority's money could be tracked down throughout the Arab world, registered and secured in the Palestinian Investment Fund, which requires at least three official signatures for any withdrawal and is audited by the Democracy Council, an American nonprofit group hired by Mr. Fayyad. But no watchdog was ever hired to monitor the PLO funds, and according to James Prince, who leads the American auditing team, the PLO funds are totally opaque. According to some officials and investigators, Mr. Arafat used that money to buy loyalties, and this stash came from the authority's presidential budget of close to $40 million -- as well as various illegal cuts Mr. Arafat allegedly was receiving from petroleum smuggling and from fees paid by trucks crossing the Gaza Strip border. They took away his political and physical power, and all he had was financial power, Mr. Prince said. He went around with cash and threw money around.
Blair's Legislative Program To Focus on Crime, Security
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB110125411107782447,00.html The Wall Street Journal November 24, 2004 3:28 a.m. EST WORLD NEWS Blair's Legislative Program To Focus on Crime, Security Associated Press November 24, 2004 3:28 a.m.; Page A11 LONDON - British Prime Minister Tony Blair put the fight against crime and terrorism at the center of his campaign for a third term, pledging to fast-track plans for national identity cards and a new police agency similar to the FBI. With parliamentary elections expected in May, the government wants to appear tough on law and order, and security lies at the heart of the legislative program it unveiled yesterday. This is a big change, but frankly with terrorism, illegal immigration and organized crime ... identity cards in my judgment are long overdue, Mr. Blair told the House of Commons. Political opponents accused his government of seeking to frighten voters - similar to a charge Democrats leveled against President Bush. Despite widespread public opposition to British participation in the Iraq war, Mr. Blair's Labour Party is comfortably ahead in opinion polls and expected to win a third consecutive term. Queen Elizabeth II outlined to Parliament plans for a Serious Organized Crime Agency to crack down on drug gangs, people-traffickers, major fraudsters and Internet pedophiles. The agency has been dubbed Britain's equivalent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But the government's legislative priority is a law allowing a national database of names, addresses and biometric details of everyone in Britain. The information would be linked to ID cards. Ministers hope to phase them in for voluntary use by 2007, then make them compulsory by 2012. Such cards are mandatory in many Western European countries, but the idea alarms civil-rights activists. -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Suicide pigs fly to support Blunkett's War on Terror
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/23/terror_scare_spin/print.html The Register Biting the hand that feeds IT The Register Internet and Law Digital Rights/Digital Wrongs Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/23/terror_scare_spin/ Suicide pigs fly to support Blunkett's War on Terror By John Lettice (john.lettice at theregister.co.uk) Published Tuesday 23rd November 2004 11:44 GMT In an amazing coincidence, news of a thwarted 911-style terror attack on the UK emerged just hours before the Government was due to unveil a legislative programme chock-full of security-related goodies. The strangely fact-free story, available from the Mail, (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=328011in_page_id=1770ct=5) ITN (http://www.itv.com/news/index_957889.html) and The Scotsman, (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1346532004) among others, is attributed to a senior authoritative source, and Downing Street, the Home Office and the Metropolitan Police declined to comment. As journalistic constructs designed to distance government from responsibility for the junk the spin doctors are handing out go, senior authoritative source is pretty esoteric. It's not 'Home Office sources', nor is 'sources close to the Home Office' - maybe it's not even 'informed sources', and our confidence in it is further undermined by the apparent need to say in the story that the source who has no axe to grind, said that the threats were real and were not deliberately exaggerated for political purposes. When you have to put in your story, 'look, I know you're all going to think this is junk made up by the Government to coincide with the Queens speech, but it's not, OK?', you are in bad shape.? The Government's intention now will be to let this one lie (as it were), and just smugly decline to comment. David Blunkett, who heads up the newly-merged Ministries of Fear and Truth, has however had trouble controlling his mouth on previous occasions. Earlier this year the man who is not running a fear-inspired campaign to justify his terror measures cited (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3607141.stm) a thwarted chemical bomb plot as justifying them. The chemical in question was, even in the views of the terror rentaquotes, (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3603961.stm) a peculiar choice for a bomb that would do anything apart from, er, inspire terror, and it later transpired that nobody had actually been arrested (http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/000CA4C2.htm), and that none of the strange and ineffective bomb-making chemical osmium tetroxide may even have been acquired. There were actual arrests in another chemical bomb scare (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/11/17/tube.terror/) (although in that report John Prescott seems weirdly off-message). Unhappily, as this valuable sweeping up (http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/january03_index.php?l=52%82%22=0;) of terror-scare aftermaths reports, none of them was ever convicted of terrorism-related activities. One of the three was sentenced to three months for possession of a fake French passport. What percentage of fake ID holders are terrorists, Mr Blunkett? But back to today's events. Among the 'sensible preemptive measures' to be announced today we have the ID scheme bill, and just last week David Blunkett was pre-spinning the matter in his speech to the IPPR. The transcript of this now available, (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs3/identitycards_041118speech.htm) and we note with some interest that David, who assures us he does not use terror scares to sell repression, says: Now people say to me that they don't believe for a minute ID cards would actually help in terms of being able to track or prevent terrorist activity and they say 'It didn't stop the terrorist attack in Madrid in March, did it?' And the answer is: 'no it didn't' and I have never claimed that it would have done. A little research provides an example of trustworthy and truthful David not saying that very thing. In the Breakfast with Frost (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/3657219.stm) interview in April, which is rapidly acquiring 'seminal' status, he said: Firstly because we've got biometrics, I mean, people say to me you couldn't stop the World Trade Center attack, you couldn't stop the Madrid bombing with ID cards. Well, you couldn't with, of course because the Americans although they have an insurance system, do not have an ID card as you know. The Spanish do. But it isn't a foolproof biometric card with a database, with the ability to test not only the card vis-a-vis the database, but actually the person and the card they hold. That's what will be potentially possible. Which, we'll grant, is not saying the ID scheme would have stopped Madrid, but it does look a bit like saying Madrid happened because the Spanish had the 'wrong kind of ID card', while we, of course... More
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
John Kelsey wrote... Well, I'm sure glad we avoided having Iraq become a breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, etc. Also that we avoided it becoming a place that trains people in how to carry out effective guerrilla warfare against US troops. We sure dodged a bullet there -TD --John Oops! I stand corrected. -TD
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Re: Latest Tasteful Video Game: Chappaquiduck
At 11:34 PM 11/21/04 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: Slsahdot reports that MSNBC reports http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6549265/ that there's a new video game JFK Reloaded http://www.jfkreloaded.com/start/ I'm waiting for Grand Theft Auto IV, Drunk Over the Bridge With the Secretary variant. Wonder what Teddie will say about that one. Oswald saved the world from nuclear conflict, thank the gods he offed the sex drug crazed toothy one as soon as he (et al :-) did. And a hell of a shot as well. Gotta respect that, with a bolt-action, no less.
Gilmore's regional arrest interstate travel
John (under regional arrest) Gilmore The feds can't prohibit interstate travel, no? To visit 2 of the states, you must use a boat. Do boats require ID? I understand that trains now do. [Note that driving through a foreign country should not be required. To boat you pass out of US waters, into international, and back into US waters.] - Will DCite be greenish like trinitite, or is the swamp iron-poor?
Oswald
On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 20:31, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 11:34 PM 11/21/04 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: Slsahdot reports that MSNBC reports http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6549265/ that there's a new video game JFK Reloaded http://www.jfkreloaded.com/start/ I'm waiting for Grand Theft Auto IV, Drunk Over the Bridge With the Secretary variant. Wonder what Teddie will say about that one. Oswald saved the world from nuclear conflict, thank the gods he offed the sex drug crazed toothy one as soon as he (et al :-) did. And a hell of a shot as well. Gotta respect that, with a bolt-action, no less. A piece-of-shit boltie. I don't believe the official story, myself. Huh. Just realized, now that I'm spouting conspiracy theories I must finally be a real cpunks list member.
Re: Oswald
At 8:39 PM -0500 11/24/04, Steve Furlong wrote: A piece-of-shit boltie. That and a corset... Cheers, RAH --- http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-reston22nov22,0,7466969,print.story The Los Angeles Times COMMENTARY That 'Damned Girdle': the Hidden Factor That Might Have Killed Kennedy If not for an elaborate corset, he likely would have survived the Dallas shooting. By James Reston Jr. James Reston Jr.'s forthcoming book is on the Spain of Christopher Columbus and will be published by Doubleday next year. November 22, 2004 Two years ago, the historian Robert Dallek revealed new details about the extraordinary range of shots, stimulants and pills President Kennedy took to control his physical pain and present his youthful image to the world. Important and interesting as these details are, they should not distract us from the one medical remedy that probably killed the president: his corset. Members of Kennedy's inner circle had often witnessed the painful ritual that Kennedy endured in his private quarters before he ventured in public, when his valet would literally winch a steel-rodded canvas back brace around the president's torso, pulling heavy straps and tightening the thongs loop by loop as if it was a bizarre scene out of Gone With the Wind. Once in it, the president was planted upright, trapped and almost bolted into a ramrod posture. Many would wonder how JFK could ever move in such a contraption. And yet move he did, and, besides his painkillers, his corset contributed to the youthful, high-shouldered military bearing that he presented glamorously to the world. But this simple device imparted a fate almost Mephistophelean in its horror to the sequence of events in Dallas 41 years ago. In researching my biography of Gov. John Connally of Texas 15 years ago, I was put on to the critical importance of Kennedy's corset in the ghastly six seconds in November 1963 by a former Texas senator, the late Ralph Yarborough, who was in the motorcade that day. Yarborough growled softly about that damned girdle, and this led me to the remarks of two doctors, Charles James Carrico and Malcolm Oliver Perry, buried in Volume 3 of the 26-volume set of testimony that attended the Warren Commission report. In November 1963, Carrico was the youthful, 28-year-old resident in the emergency room of Parkland Hospital who first received the injured president in the trauma room; Perry came quickly to the emergency room to supervise the case - and then to pronounce the president dead half an hour later. Before the Warren Commission, Carrico told of removing Kennedy's back brace in the first seconds after his body arrived in the hospital. He described the device as made of coarse white fiber, with stays and buckles. Apart from the never-ending controversy over how many bullets Lee Harvey Oswald actually fired from the Texas School Book Depository, most experts agree with the Warren Commission that Oswald's first bullet passed cleanly through Kennedy's lower neck, missing any bone, then entered Connally's back, streaking through the governor's body and lodging in his thigh. This was the first so-called magic bullet. When Connally was hit, he pivoted in pain to his left, his lithe body in motion as it swiveled downward, ending up in the lap of his wife, Nellie. But because of the corset, Kennedy's body did not act as a normal body would when the bullet passed through his throat. Held by his back brace, Kennedy remained upright, according to the Warren Commission, for five more seconds. This provided Oswald the opportunity to reload and shoot again at an almost stationary target. The frames of the Zapruder film confirm this ramrod posture: Kennedy's head turns only slightly in those eternal seconds, and his upper body almost not at all, from frame 225 (when the first shot entered his neck) to the fatal frame of 313. Without the corset, the force of the first bullet, traveling at a speed of 2,000 feet a second, would surely have driven the president's body forward, making him writhe in pain like Connally, and probably down in the seat of his limousine, beyond the view of Oswald's cross hairs for a second or third shot. With no bones struck and the spinal cord intact, the president almost certainly would have survived the wound from the first bullet. Both Carrico and Perry testified to this likelihood (and apropos of the decades-long controversy, both testified that the small, round, clean wound in the front of Kennedy's neck was an exit wound rather than an entry wound). To Perry, under the questioning of then-assistant counsel - now senator from Pennsylvania - Arlen Specter, the injury was tolerable; the president would have recovered. Because the bullet had passed below the larynx, the wound would not even have impaired his speech later. In the new focus on cortisone shots, codeine painkillers, barbiturates, stimulants like Ritalin, and gamma globulin injections, the
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Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
-- James A Donald wrote... And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? Tyler Durden And the answer is: 9/11 sucked. Oh wait, I guess I have to explain that. After the Soviets were pushed out of Afghanistan the place became a veritable breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, and so on. Nothing wrong with warlords - right now they are doing a fine job of keeping the Taliban down. What made it a breeding ground for terrorism was not civil war, but diminuition of civil war. The problem was that the Taliban was damn near victorious. If the US government had maintained the relationship with our former anti communist allies, and kept on sending them arms, we never would have had 9/11 The trouble was that the government abandoned our allies. We should have sent them enough aid to sustain permanent major civil war against the Taliban. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG PKHY56Lv+tILn2Qq0fJACuoHr5UrnHsCHuFRofC7 4B3ZCczFe/KNkguYoDENJrgFm5KZ6pJTV/sIRh7wY
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
-- James A. Donald And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? John Kelsey At least three: a. The pottery barn theory of foreign affairs--we'd be blamed for making things worse. And if we do nothing, we are also blamed for making things worse: Observe, for example 1. the French assist the Hutus to commit genocide against the Tutsis. Capitalism and America get blamed. 2. The Indonesians massacre infidels. Capitalism, Americans and America get blamed. 3. Saddam massacres his people. The CIA, Americans and America get blamed. 4. Syria invades Lebanon. America and Israel get blamed. 5. Africans massacre each other in the Congo. America gets blamed. (Oddly, for once, the CIA, capitalism, and Jews, are not involved.) (I don't know how much this matters long term, but it would certainly have made life pretty hard on Tony Blair and the rest of the world leaders who actually supported us.) The dogs bark and the caravan moves on. b. We would one day like their oil back on the market. They would like that also. Fortunately all the oil is Kurds, or Shiites - the first areas to be secured once the civil war burns down a bit. c. We would like to make sure that the next regime to come to power there isn't someone we also feel obligated to get rid of, as even invasions done on the cheap cost a lot of money. But it is easy and cheap to remove people. It is installing people that is hard, bloody, and expensive. If the dice turn out badly, just roll them again. Nobody teaches soldiers nation building in basic training. They do however, teach them nation smashing. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG cE8rYUZGiDSDZk4yFeEBDqa3go99WSWJnoTURH4R 4L1KruhmMXw4gVFrzipYHod+HL0bAKAEvFpvwCdUV
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
-- James A. Donald: And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? On 24 Nov 2004 at 2:42, Bill Stewart wrote: Well, once you get past the invalid and dishonest parts of Bush's 57 reasons We Need to Invade Iraq Right Now (WMDs, Al-Qaeda, Tried to kill Bush's Daddy, etc.) you're pretty much left with Saddam tried to kill Bush's Daddy and Replacing the EEEVil dictator Saddam with a Democracy to protect the Iraqi people. Seems to me that permanent civil war in Iraq provides Americans with the same benefits as democracy in Iraq, though considerably more reliably. Chances are that after fair and free election, the majority will vote to screw the minority - literally screw them, as in rape being unofficially OK when members of the majority do it to members of the minority. Nothing like a long holy war with no clear winner to teach people the virtues of religious tolerance. That is, after all, how Europeans learnt that lesson. And the worst comes to the worst - well today the Taliban are busy kiling Afghans instead of Americans. Wouldn't it be nice if Al Quaeda was killing Iraqis instead of Americans - well actually they are killing Iraqis instead of americans, but wouldn't it be nice if they were killing *more* Iraqis? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG PwjZ4PipCdWr8EC4cLgzxV3SAw0bWUhhvejdGR8/ 4XrnLDT2Ed8fBlZ0wGPU0dQOOH2GeZ5kbh7h8N4QF
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CIA Researching Automated IRC Spying (fwd from [EMAIL PROTECTED])
- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 24 Nov 2004 23:01:24 - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CIA Researching Automated IRC Spying User-Agent: SlashdotNewsScooper/0.0.3 Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/24/2140209 Posted by: timothy, on 2004-11-24 21:58:00 from the will-u-be-my-friend-lol-j/k dept. Iphtashu Fitz writes CNet News is reporting that the CIA has been [1]quietly investing in research programs to automatically monitor Internet chat rooms. In a two year agreement with the [2]National Science Foundation, CIA officials were involved with the selection of recipients for research grants to develop automated chat room monitors. Researchers at [3]Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute received $157,673 from the CIA and NSF for their proposal of 'a system to be deployed in the background of any chat room as a silent listener for eavesdropping ... The proposed system could aid the intelligence community to discover hidden communities and communication patterns in chat rooms without human intervention.' How soon until all IM conversations are monitored by [4]Big Brother? The [5]abstract of the proposal is available on the NFS website. [6]Click Here References 1. http://news.com.com/2100-7348_3-5466140.html 2. http://www.nsf.gov/ 3. http://www.rpi.edu/ 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(1984) 5. http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0442154 6. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=5671alloc_id=12342site_id=1request_id=2995024op=clickpage=%2farticle%2epl - End forwarded message - -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpPbaFM7bShM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
At 10:02 PM 11/23/2004, James A. Donald wrote: And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? Well, once you get past the invalid and dishonest parts of Bush's 57 reasons We Need to Invade Iraq Right Now (WMDs, Al-Qaeda, Tried to kill Bush's Daddy, etc.) you're pretty much left with Saddam tried to kill Bush's Daddy and Replacing the EEEVil dictator Saddam with a Democracy to protect the Iraqi people. Pulling off the latter requires that you leave them with something better than a civil war, though it's not clear that what they're getting right now _is_ better than a civil war.
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
James A Donald wrote... And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? And the answer is: 9/11 sucked. Oh wait, I guess I have to explain that. After the Soviets were pushed out of Afghanistan the place became a veritable breeding ground for all sorts of virulent strains of Islam, warlords, and so on. Iraq would likely denigrate into the same, eventually launching similarly nice little activities. -TD
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
From: James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 24, 2004 1:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report .. And the problem with a civil war in Iraq is? At least three: a. The pottery barn theory of foreign affairs--we'd be blamed for making things worse. (I don't know how much this matters long term, but it would certainly have made life pretty hard on Tony Blair and the rest of the world leaders who actually supported us.) b. We would one day like their oil back on the market. c. We would like to make sure that the next regime to come to power there isn't someone we also feel obligated to get rid of, as even invasions done on the cheap cost a lot of money. --digsig James A. Donald --John
Re: Fallujah: Marine Eye-Witness Report
At 1:05 PM -0500 11/24/04, John Kelsey wrote: effective guerrilla warfare against US troops. Uh, huh...Just for fun, see the title of this thread. ;-) Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
