Re: want to revert back to gnome classic mode.
thanks alot guyz, i am actually a server side guy using mostly terminal
window. i am new to gnome and xfce.
so my question is, are all the applications from gnome will be available in
xfce, is it like a layer on the top of gnome 3. are all gnome utilities
will be available as well? like system monitor etc.
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 5/21/14, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> > i have just installed debian 7 and i am feeling a bit uncomfortable with
> > the new look ("unity" type) i want the all time old menu "gnome classic".
> > how can i enable that.
>
> Basically, your options are:
> 1) Install XFCE desktop
> apt-cache show xfce4
> http://www.xfce.org/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce
>
> 2) Install Cinnamon desktop
> apt-cache show cinnamon # sid only/ incomplete?
> http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_(software)
>
> 3) Install Mate desktop
> apt-cache show mate-desktop # sid only?
> http://mate-desktop.org/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_(desktop_environment)
>
> 4) Gnome plugins to make it look more like gnome classic
> ??
>
> http://thearchway.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/turning-gnome-3-into-a-usable-thing/
> https://extensions.gnome.org/
>
> Good luck,
> Zenaan
>
>
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>
>
Istrazni postupak protiv RH zbog krsenja slobode medija
VAŽNA OBAVIJEST Prijedlog za pokretanje istražnog postupka protiv Republike Hrvatske u Europskom parlamentu zbog ograničenja slobode medija (HRT-a) Poštovani, Obavještavamo Vas da je predloženo pokretanje istražnog postupka u Europskom parlamentu protiv Republike Hrvatske zbog povrede članka 11 (2) Povelje o fundamentalnim pravima Europske unije, a odnosi se na nedozvoljeni utjecaj aktualne vlasti na rad Hrvatske radiotelevizije, čime je ugroženo pravo na objektivno informiranje. Više o Prijedlogu pročitajte na http://www.jurpro.hr/images/Clanci/PETITION-HRT.pdf . Svjedoci smo još uvijek svakodnevne zloupotrebe Hrvatske radio televizije za političku promociju najviših vrhova vlasti. Tako je u pravilu neizostavan svakodnevni prilog o aktualnom predsjedniku države u centralnom dnevniku HTV-a. Peticiju za medijske slobode na Hrvatskoj radioteleviziji potpisalo je više od 14 000 građana, a ista se i dalje može potpisati online na slijedećem linku: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/promjena-zakona-o-hrt-u.html . Pridružite se i Vi potpisu Peticije, ako to već niste učinili, i time sudjelujte o određivanju vlastite budućnosti i budućnosti Vaših najmilijih. Kako bi se prikupio što veći broj potpisnika Peticije, proslijedite ovu obavijest dalje svojim prijateljima, kolegama i poslovnim partnerima. Lijepi pozdrav, JURIS PROTECTA Udruga za unapređenje pravosuđa u RH Zlatko Zeljko, predsjednik www.jurpro.hr PS: Ako ne želite više dobivati naše obavijesti, možete se odjaviti klikoim na link ODJAVA i upisati e-mail adresu koju odjavljujete.
Re: want to revert back to gnome classic mode.
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> i have just installed debian 7 and i am feeling a bit uncomfortable with the
> new look ("unity" type) i want the all time old menu "gnome classic". how
> can i enable that.
>
I recommend installing Xfce, which is very similar to GNOME 2 (and
also happens to be fairly comfortable for someone coming from the OS/2
Presentation Manager). It's the default in Debian Jessie, so switching
now will mean you're on the same thing when Jessie becomes stable.
# apt-get install xfce4
Chris Angelico
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Re: want to revert back to gnome classic mode.
On 5/21/14, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> i have just installed debian 7 and i am feeling a bit uncomfortable with
> the new look ("unity" type) i want the all time old menu "gnome classic".
> how can i enable that.
Basically, your options are:
1) Install XFCE desktop
apt-cache show xfce4
http://www.xfce.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce
2) Install Cinnamon desktop
apt-cache show cinnamon # sid only/ incomplete?
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_(software)
3) Install Mate desktop
apt-cache show mate-desktop # sid only?
http://mate-desktop.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_(desktop_environment)
4) Gnome plugins to make it look more like gnome classic
??
http://thearchway.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/turning-gnome-3-into-a-usable-thing/
https://extensions.gnome.org/
Good luck,
Zenaan
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want to revert back to gnome classic mode.
i have just installed debian 7 and i am feeling a bit uncomfortable with
the new look ("unity" type) i want the all time old menu "gnome classic".
how can i enable that.
Thanks,
Myk
Re: Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 08:12:36PM -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 5/20/2014 5:05 PM, David Guntner wrote: ..large snip. > > >I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly > >capable of kill-filing those topics. If all I was concerned about was > >just me, I'd do it. But I want the list to remain useful for others as > >well. > > > > In that case I've got you by at least 10 years - I've been on since > it was arpanet in the early 70's. That's it. That explains everything. He's showing early signs of senility. "No damned whippersnapper is going to tell *him* what to do". It's akin to "get off my lawn, you kids". ..equally large snip... -- Bob Holtzman Our company's mission is to enable data-stream synergies with confluent bullshit mining, signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
For future "please use o-t list" hinters, please CC the ot list, even if you're not subscribed, or perhaps only send to o-t list AND to the 'perpetrator'. On 5/21/14, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 5/20/2014 5:05 PM, David Guntner wrote: >> Ok, that last bit was a bit insulting, and was uncalled for. I >> apologize for that. > > Yes, I find you quite insulting. To say that immediately after he apologised to you, is rather disgraceful of YOU Jerry! >> However, that does not change the fact that you and the other noisy few ... > There seem to be a lot of people contributing to this conversation - but > very few (i.e. ONE) complaining about it. Wrong Jerry. WE (I include myself and others have already included themselves) should NOT have needed David's hints in the first place. We should have only ever posted our flames to the o-t list. >> THIS list is here for the purpose stated above. When you guys keep > > Maybe it's useless to you. Tough. So you want a degenerate list? I guess you don't care. That's rather care-less of you. >> I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly > > In that case I've got you by at least 10 years - I've been on since it My unmentionable is bigger than yours! And Jerry, do you say this is NOT o-t discussion? PLEASE do not reply to to d-uuser; my last 6 emails were all to d-ot, I CC this to d-user ONLY to demonstrate solidarity with and support for David Guntner and others who are asking (VERY politely for the most part I might add) that this type of discussion be moved to offtopic list. That is reasonable. That is fair. That is per policy. That is per list designations. > If you're not interested in the discussion, killfile it. Jerry you're not going to win this argument, even if you do keep trying to be "the last post in the thread". >> On a strictly personal level, face it - I'm on this list because of its >> intended purpose. I should not *have* to take steps to filter out > As am I. And if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. That's what > filters are for. And telling someone to take an active conversation > somewhere else because YOU DON'T LIKE IT - now THAT is the HEIGHT OF > ARROGANCE. See above. You won't win this one. And it shouldn't be about winning anyway, we should be showing respect for the others on the list. Your words leave a little to be desired in that department. > Then please don't waste any more bandwidth. Jerry, your endless impulse to always respond to everything anyone says that remotely or not so remotely relates to you, _is_ a waste of bandwidth. And unfair. And disrespectful in this context etc etc. > And although you've been told the same by many people, > you continue your infantile behavior. Jerry, meet mirror. My future posts in this regard shall return to being offtopic list only. Zenaan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOsGNSRTjZ=8mdiv-uogfyblk+kfi8ns-w1qgbkgycdds42...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
Top posting here, as everything below is WAY OT. Sorry, Jerry, as old a hand as you may be, you're wrong. Take this "conversation" elsewhere, and stop embarrassing yourself and polluting this otherwise useful list. Cheers Patrick On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 5/20/2014 5:05 PM, David Guntner wrote: >> >> David Guntner grabbed a keyboard and wrote: >>> >>> Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, get a email reader that will. >>> >>> >>> No. Just because you and a small group of noisy people are too fscking >>> lazy and inconsiderate to take the topic where it belongs and where it >>> would be WAY more appropriate is not a reason for everyone else on the >>> list who is here for the purpose of talking ABOUT THINGS DIRECTLY >>> RELATED TO DEBIAN to have to make modifications to get your unwanted >>> cruft out of their mail readers. >>> >>> The Debian off-topic list exists expressly for the purpose of discussing >>> things like this. It's not rocket science, Jerry. Even you should be >>> able to figure that out. I can't help it that you just don't want to >>> and think that this list is your personal playground where anything goes. >> >> >> Ok, that last bit was a bit insulting, and was uncalled for. I >> apologize for that. >> > > Yes, I find you quite insulting. > >> However, that does not change the fact that you and the other noisy few >> who just *have* to drag an off-topic discussion on and on and on and on >> to the point where it's not even beating a dead horse any more - the >> horse is GLUE at this point - is incredibly inconsiderate to all the >> other people on this list who are here for reading and discussion things >> that pertain directly to the Debian operating system and its software >> package. Which is, after all, the stated purpose of this list. An >> Debian Off-Topic list was created specifically for the purpose of >> allowing Debian users a place where they can discuss politics, DRM, the >> FSF condemning ant-eaters for eating ants, etc. to their heart's >> content. People on that list want to discuss, and see discussions, on >> all those other subjects. >> > > There seem to be a lot of people contributing to this conversation - but > very few (i.e. ONE) complaining about it. > >> THIS list is here for the purpose stated above. When you guys keep >> going on and on and on about something which is blatantly, patently >> off-topic for it, you are, in fact, being extremely rude and >> inconsiderate of all those others - many of whom may simply be lurking >> to read and learn. When you flood the list with so much noise that the >> actual signal starts to be drowned out, you effectively ruin the >> usefulness of the list for its intended purpose. >> > > Maybe it's useless to you. Tough. > >> I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly >> capable of kill-filing those topics. If all I was concerned about was >> just me, I'd do it. But I want the list to remain useful for others as >> well. >> > > In that case I've got you by at least 10 years - I've been on since it was > arpanet in the early 70's. And one thing I've found - which you SHOULD have > been able to figure out by now - not every discussion is going to be of > interest to every person on the mailing list. If you're not interested in > the discussion, killfile it. > >> On a strictly personal level, face it - I'm on this list because of its >> intended purpose. I should not *have* to take steps to filter out >> off-topic massive threads that just won't go away - NOBODY should have >> to. Some off-topic stuff is always going to happen on any list. It's >> just a fact of life that topics will drift a bit every now and then. >> But when you know damn-well that you're off topic and someone takes the >> time to nudge you about it, telling them "I'm not going to, just filter >> it out" is the height of arrogance. What you're saying is that it's way >> more important that you use the list any way you want and that people >> who want the list used for its intended purpose can just bugger off. >> > > As am I. And if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. That's what > filters are for. And telling someone to take an active conversation > somewhere else because YOU DON'T LIKE IT - now THAT is the HEIGHT OF > ARROGANCE. > >> I'm not going to continue this particular discussion on list, because I >> don't want *this* thread to drag out into Yet Another Off-Topic Thread >> That Just Won't Die. If you want to discuss further, feel free to reply >> back to me directly. If you feel the burning need to reply to this >> on-list, there's not much I can do to stop you. :-) But I won't reply >> to anything you say there on the list. >> >> --Dave > > > Then please don't waste any more bandwidth.
Re: Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
On 21/05/14 09:22, theartloy wrote: > Just a data point, this behaviour has changed; > > wheezy's mke2fs(8) has this: >> > Be warned that it is not possible to expand the number of inodes >> > on a filesystem after it is created, so be careful deciding the >> > correct value for this parameter. > Whereas jessie's mke2fs(8) has this: >> > Note that resizing a filesystem changes the numer of inodes to >> > maintain this ratio. Interesting, thanks. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bfa1e.2000...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
On 05/20/2014 08:12 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 5/20/2014 5:05 PM, David Guntner wrote: David Guntner grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, get a email reader that will. No. Just because you and a small group of noisy people are too fscking lazy and inconsiderate to take the topic where it belongs and where it would be WAY more appropriate is not a reason for everyone else on the list who is here for the purpose of talking ABOUT THINGS DIRECTLY RELATED TO DEBIAN to have to make modifications to get your unwanted cruft out of their mail readers. The Debian off-topic list exists expressly for the purpose of discussing things like this. It's not rocket science, Jerry. Even you should be able to figure that out. I can't help it that you just don't want to and think that this list is your personal playground where anything goes. Ok, that last bit was a bit insulting, and was uncalled for. I apologize for that. Yes, I find you quite insulting. However, that does not change the fact that you and the other noisy few who just *have* to drag an off-topic discussion on and on and on and on to the point where it's not even beating a dead horse any more - the horse is GLUE at this point - is incredibly inconsiderate to all the other people on this list who are here for reading and discussion things that pertain directly to the Debian operating system and its software package. Which is, after all, the stated purpose of this list. An Debian Off-Topic list was created specifically for the purpose of allowing Debian users a place where they can discuss politics, DRM, the FSF condemning ant-eaters for eating ants, etc. to their heart's content. People on that list want to discuss, and see discussions, on all those other subjects. There seem to be a lot of people contributing to this conversation - but very few (i.e. ONE) complaining about it. THIS list is here for the purpose stated above. When you guys keep going on and on and on about something which is blatantly, patently off-topic for it, you are, in fact, being extremely rude and inconsiderate of all those others - many of whom may simply be lurking to read and learn. When you flood the list with so much noise that the actual signal starts to be drowned out, you effectively ruin the usefulness of the list for its intended purpose. Maybe it's useless to you. Tough. I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly capable of kill-filing those topics. If all I was concerned about was just me, I'd do it. But I want the list to remain useful for others as well. In that case I've got you by at least 10 years - I've been on since it was arpanet in the early 70's. And one thing I've found - which you SHOULD have been able to figure out by now - not every discussion is going to be of interest to every person on the mailing list. If you're not interested in the discussion, killfile it. On a strictly personal level, face it - I'm on this list because of its intended purpose. I should not *have* to take steps to filter out off-topic massive threads that just won't go away - NOBODY should have to. Some off-topic stuff is always going to happen on any list. It's just a fact of life that topics will drift a bit every now and then. But when you know damn-well that you're off topic and someone takes the time to nudge you about it, telling them "I'm not going to, just filter it out" is the height of arrogance. What you're saying is that it's way more important that you use the list any way you want and that people who want the list used for its intended purpose can just bugger off. As am I. And if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. That's what filters are for. And telling someone to take an active conversation somewhere else because YOU DON'T LIKE IT - now THAT is the HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE. I'm not going to continue this particular discussion on list, because I don't want *this* thread to drag out into Yet Another Off-Topic Thread That Just Won't Die. If you want to discuss further, feel free to reply back to me directly. If you feel the burning need to reply to this on-list, there's not much I can do to stop you. :-) But I won't reply to anything you say there on the list. --Dave Then please don't waste any more bandwidth. You do this every time a discussion YOU decide is off-topic comes up. And although you've been told the same by many people, you continue your infantile behavior. Jerry Please take this to either pissing_cont...@lists.debian.org or kitten_fig...@lists.debian.org -- hangout: ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net diversion: http://alienjeff.net - visit The Fringe quote: "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, emai
Re: Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
On 5/20/2014 5:05 PM, David Guntner wrote: David Guntner grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, get a email reader that will. No. Just because you and a small group of noisy people are too fscking lazy and inconsiderate to take the topic where it belongs and where it would be WAY more appropriate is not a reason for everyone else on the list who is here for the purpose of talking ABOUT THINGS DIRECTLY RELATED TO DEBIAN to have to make modifications to get your unwanted cruft out of their mail readers. The Debian off-topic list exists expressly for the purpose of discussing things like this. It's not rocket science, Jerry. Even you should be able to figure that out. I can't help it that you just don't want to and think that this list is your personal playground where anything goes. Ok, that last bit was a bit insulting, and was uncalled for. I apologize for that. Yes, I find you quite insulting. However, that does not change the fact that you and the other noisy few who just *have* to drag an off-topic discussion on and on and on and on to the point where it's not even beating a dead horse any more - the horse is GLUE at this point - is incredibly inconsiderate to all the other people on this list who are here for reading and discussion things that pertain directly to the Debian operating system and its software package. Which is, after all, the stated purpose of this list. An Debian Off-Topic list was created specifically for the purpose of allowing Debian users a place where they can discuss politics, DRM, the FSF condemning ant-eaters for eating ants, etc. to their heart's content. People on that list want to discuss, and see discussions, on all those other subjects. There seem to be a lot of people contributing to this conversation - but very few (i.e. ONE) complaining about it. THIS list is here for the purpose stated above. When you guys keep going on and on and on about something which is blatantly, patently off-topic for it, you are, in fact, being extremely rude and inconsiderate of all those others - many of whom may simply be lurking to read and learn. When you flood the list with so much noise that the actual signal starts to be drowned out, you effectively ruin the usefulness of the list for its intended purpose. Maybe it's useless to you. Tough. I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly capable of kill-filing those topics. If all I was concerned about was just me, I'd do it. But I want the list to remain useful for others as well. In that case I've got you by at least 10 years - I've been on since it was arpanet in the early 70's. And one thing I've found - which you SHOULD have been able to figure out by now - not every discussion is going to be of interest to every person on the mailing list. If you're not interested in the discussion, killfile it. On a strictly personal level, face it - I'm on this list because of its intended purpose. I should not *have* to take steps to filter out off-topic massive threads that just won't go away - NOBODY should have to. Some off-topic stuff is always going to happen on any list. It's just a fact of life that topics will drift a bit every now and then. But when you know damn-well that you're off topic and someone takes the time to nudge you about it, telling them "I'm not going to, just filter it out" is the height of arrogance. What you're saying is that it's way more important that you use the list any way you want and that people who want the list used for its intended purpose can just bugger off. As am I. And if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. That's what filters are for. And telling someone to take an active conversation somewhere else because YOU DON'T LIKE IT - now THAT is the HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE. I'm not going to continue this particular discussion on list, because I don't want *this* thread to drag out into Yet Another Off-Topic Thread That Just Won't Die. If you want to discuss further, feel free to reply back to me directly. If you feel the burning need to reply to this on-list, there's not much I can do to stop you. :-) But I won't reply to anything you say there on the list. --Dave Then please don't waste any more bandwidth. You do this every time a discussion YOU decide is off-topic comes up. And although you've been told the same by many people, you continue your infantile behavior. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bef74.4080...@attglobal.net
Re: Accelerated driver for Intel video driver?
Thanks Filip, On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Filip wrote: > On Mon, 19 May 2014 19:18:38 -0400 > > Intel video is normally working out of the box, but for newer > hardware you also need up to date software. > > So if you are on 7.5, try upgrading Jessie. > I apologize, I thought I had specified, the machine in question is running a relatively recent version of sid. I have not been upgrading as much until some of this chaos with systemd settles down. Thus I am running xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.21.15-1+b2 amd64 > > For example, I couldn't get 3d accelleration working on the integrated > adapter of my i5-4570S on Debian 7.3, and upgrading to testing > solved it. > > You can check if it's the same problem with: > $ glxinfo | grep renderer > The output of this is: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile > If there is something with LLVM in the output, it's not working and > falling back to software emulation. While you're at it, you can also > try glxgears. > glxgears gave me: Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. Xlib: extension "NV-GLX" missing on display ":0". 334 frames in 5.1 seconds = 65.750 FPS 320 frames in 5.3 seconds = 60.041 FPS 320 frames in 5.3 seconds = 60.041 FPS 320 frames in 5.3 seconds = 60.044 FPS 320 frames in 5.3 seconds = 60.038 FPS l...and the display was a little choppy. Also the Xlib error appears in both the glxgears and the glxinfo...It's looking for NV-GLX? I don't have an xorg.conf on this machine... Thanks, --b
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Tom H wrote: > I'm sad that sysvinit's future seems pretty bleak but that's life. I'm not. There's so much boilerplate in sysvinit scripts, and I'm quite happy to see them replaced with something a lot simpler. The system of coded comments at the top of a shell script to control everything feels to me like a hack, bolted on to cope with something that sysvinit scripts fundamentally aren't designed to do. Now, I have no idea what goes on in the background (I'm not a developer *of* Debian, just a software developer who *uses* Debian), but I'm quite happy writing my programs to simply keep running in the foreground, and then writing a tiny little config file for Upstart or systemd or equivalent that says "Hey, I want you to invoke this like this". Maybe there could be a better choice than systemd, but I'm not at all sorry that sysvinit isn't the one staying. All my Wheezy systems have Upstart at the moment; a job config file might be all of 3-10 lines, which is about as long as the coded headers at the top of a sysvinit script. With systemd, I can imagine service files being maybe twice the Upstart size, at worst, so they're still pretty compact. Yes, systemd has its issues (I have no idea what's going to happen long-term with non-Linuxes, once everyone on Linux starts depending on systemd). But I don't mourn sysvinit. ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/captjjmocucx7v5mdqunsse6jggst3wpbadavk6xjsmlc9c6...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 03:15:44PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >> DRM sucks! > > +10E > Okay, now I have to chime in. Not only is this off topic (which I can't complain about, having been guilty of the same), but that's content-free as well. Do we really need to hear how much, in floating point, you hate DRM? Can't we just assume that part and move on? Thanks. Chris Angelico -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAPTjJmpJ3b=h_WvphBmbNKdcKvDRYKJXCWrz=WmJ=shayox...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 03:15:44PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > DRM sucks! +10E -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520232933.GB3494@tal
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:07 AM, Brian wrote: > On Tue 20 May 2014 at 09:24:02 +0200, Erwan David wrote: >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: >>> >>> You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it >>> with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. >>> >>> The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list >>> of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to >>> shrink. >> >> Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives, >> if less than a year after the alternatives are killed. > > Perhaps the contents of this mail will engender a more positive > appreciation of the task ahead and maybe some optimism too: > > https://lists.debian.org/87siodzo56@windlord.stanford.edu > > Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think > we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an > opportunity to not change init systems. > It remains to be seen if we will ship some software with jessie that > requires systemd be running as the init system, or if people will have the > time and resources to provide the necessary interfaces with sysvinit or > other init systems. I certainly hope the latter is the case, and Steve > felt quite confident it would be, but the work hasn't happened yet, so we > can't be sure we won't end up in that situation. If that's the case, then > some software may not work if you choose not to run systemd. But we > should still prompt and not change without the user's permission. > > "Steve" is Steve Langasek, the maintainer of systemd-shim. When Steve L was confident about systemd-shim, he was hoping that upstart would win the vote and Ubuntu hadn't decided to transition to systemd. he might not have the same incentive to work on a post-204 systemd-shim. Especially since he said before the CTTE vote (even though he is the upstart maintainer) that if systemd were to be chosen, the focus would have to be on integrating systemd in Debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SyYHMi-M7zsZTcH5H1f5kqWS7=iuo_-V82eD=awyqr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Erwan David wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: >> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: >>> Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: > > Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that > does > not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on > Gnome 3 > software like network-manager but do not want to use systemd. AFAIUI: It's not clear that systemd-shim is going to be updated to deal with systemd 208 (it works with systemd 204) because of changes in the kernel's cgroup implementation because Ubuntu's switching to systemd so it doesn't need to do so. So unless someone packages Ubuntu's cgmanager and patches logind 208 to use it (and perhaps does even more than that), it's unlikely that systemd-shim will be useful in jessie as a systemd mini-/micro-substitute. >>> >>> You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have >>> choice" were actually false... >> >> You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it >> with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. >> >> The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list >> of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to >> shrink. > Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives, > if less than a year after the alternatives are killed. It wasn't a lie. It's the responsibility of those who want sysvinit to be available and functional as an alternative sys-init to ensure that it works. I could yet be proven wrong but I don't see much of an impetus in Debian to work on keeping sysvinit alive. There were two GR proposals to go more or less against the CTTE vote and neither garnered the required 5 sponsors to go through to a GR vote. Furthermore the sysvinit proponents (judging from their posts in the various systemd debian-devel@ threads) don't care about logind integration. > And looking at all the blocking bugs on systemd, I'm afraid. Such > major change should be done gradually with well tested software, not > software that beaks existing configurations. > > I wionder why so much haste ? The systemd proponents felt that jessie was a better time to default to systemd than jessie+1. I suspect that they'll turn out to be right given that there's now a stable, lts-type systemd branch, that RHEL 7 (systemd-based) will be released this year, and that Ubuntu 14.10 is intended (IIUC a recent Shuttleworth blog) to be systemd-based. So there'll be an enterprise distribution in the wild with systemd as pid 1 and the Debian and Ubuntu systemd maintainers will have ironed out most of the systemd issues by the time that jessie freezes in November. I'm sad that sysvinit's future seems pretty bleak but that's life. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sxrbjm2kxdda6ikcci3f69cbgqq0mf-jhzq-kgzugu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
On Tue, May 20, 2014 8:00 am, Ken Heard wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 2014-05-19 16:22, Mike McGinn wrote: > > > >> I would suggest identifying an backing up the scientific data. I >> would suggest putting a backuo program in place and auditing the >> backups to make sure that all the scientific data is backed up. >> Only then would I think about upgrading. > > Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning > of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the > scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make the > same error. The singular of data is datum. > > Other words in the same family are: medium -> media, criterion -> > criteria, bacterium -> bacteria. There are several others. > This is only currently in the context of scientific literature and even perhaps dying out in that context, over time, also. It descends from English language inheritance of Latin language terminology, and the English language is moving on, as language ever does. At present, within the context of scientific documentation, this is correct, but elsewhere, no longer necessary. Cheers! Weaver (Technical Communicator) -- "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." -- Thomas Paine Registered Linux User: 554515 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7b8abaee07c1b46677913ca8505175f4.squir...@fruiteater.riseup.net
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
Padraig Rocks writes: > What about Schrödinger's cat ?. Both guilty and not guilty at the same > time ? Considering that Schrödinger's cat was invented to illustrate the absurdity of the naive Copenhagen interpretation, it seems particularly appropriate to bring it into this discussion. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87wqdgrty9@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: systemd - excessive session-creation time
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 5/20/14, Tom H wrote: >> >> I use Fluxbox on Fedora without a DM so I'm familiar with the >> interaction of logind and xinit but I don't see how my reply to your >> post had anything to do with X or tty7. > > Erwan suggested startx with the option to run X on the tty from which > X is started, as a (partial, not complete) solution to my problem. His > suggestion was useful and did indeed solve part of my 'problem'. > > I don't think his reply to your post was a direct response to your > post - he was just adding something to the discussion that might help > me, and it did. Your post was not direct answer to my problem, but > still useful and I now make use of that information, so thanks Tom, > thanks Erwan. You're welcome. AFAIK, running X on the VT where you're logged in is the standard logind/systemd way; logind is different from consolekit in that a login via getty is a logind-authenticated session so there's no need for a binary that's equivalent to "ck-session-launch". So if you don't pass your current VT to xinit, a new terminal's allocated and you won't be logind-authenticated on it. I've just had a thought as I'm typing so this is untested and might be total bull but if you run 'su -l -c "xinit -- vt"' or 'sudo -u "xinit -- vt"' you might have a logind-authenticated session for the X terminal. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=Sx7KB3bnS++DinSStFJGemFoteDCCA=fnfmkxg52om...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:03:35 -0400 Ric Moore wrote: > On 05/20/2014 09:45 AM, Celejar wrote: > > >> I'd like to ask that question of every politician, and every police > >> officer, and so forth. I think it could be quite illuminating. > > > > Celejar > > Excellent topic! It needs to be on the OT list where it can get the > debate it deserves. :) Ric Please be more careful in your quoting - I did not write the above. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520180526.fcf28c62609472477dc76...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
On Tuesday 20 May 2014 21:50:27 Slavko wrote: > This is international ML, not all posters are native English speakers > (BTW i never meet any native English speaker), then IMO some tolerance > is needed (and expected). I agree, Slavko. But, to be fair to Ken, some at least of those using data as a singular are native English speakers. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201405202303.01814.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
On 5/20/2014 12:00 PM, Richard Hector wrote: > On 21/05/14 04:24, Sven Hartge wrote: ... > I like to create filesystems relatively small, on LVM, so that any of > them can be grown later, when I find out where the space is needed. But > extending an ext(2|3|4) filesystem doesn't create new inodes, so the > ratio of inodes to space drops, and eventually this is a problem. > >> And if you really want to be on the safe side: use XFS. > > And that's my solution. The reason for this is two fold. First, xfs gives you plenty of inodes to begin with, and xfs_growfs adds more inodes as well as additional free space when you grow an LV. Example using mkfs.xfs defaults: FilesystemTypeSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda6 xfs 94G 6.4G 87G 7% /home FilesystemTypeInodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on /dev/sda6 xfs 94M7.1K 94M1% /home 1 million inodes per gigabyte. Cheers, Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bcf91.7050...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
On 20/05/14 18:00, Richard Hector wrote: > I like to create filesystems relatively small, on LVM, so that any of > them can be grown later, when I find out where the space is needed. But > extending an ext(2|3|4) filesystem doesn't create new inodes, so the > ratio of inodes to space drops, and eventually this is a problem. Just a data point, this behaviour has changed; wheezy's mke2fs(8) has this: > Be warned that it is not possible to expand the number of inodes > on a filesystem after it is created, so be careful deciding the > correct value for this parameter. Whereas jessie's mke2fs(8) has this: > Note that resizing a filesystem changes the numer of inodes to > maintain this ratio. After a bit of searching, I found this patch applied to e2fsprog: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ext4/40554 I am not sure when the behaviour of resize2fs changed, but the patch submitter said "The man page still said it was not possible to change the number of inodes on a filesystem after creating it." suggesting that there had been some time between the code and doc change. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bc78f.3060...@zoho.com
Off-topic posting (was Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management)
David Guntner grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: >> >> Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've >> been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, >> get a email reader that will. > > No. Just because you and a small group of noisy people are too fscking > lazy and inconsiderate to take the topic where it belongs and where it > would be WAY more appropriate is not a reason for everyone else on the > list who is here for the purpose of talking ABOUT THINGS DIRECTLY > RELATED TO DEBIAN to have to make modifications to get your unwanted > cruft out of their mail readers. > > The Debian off-topic list exists expressly for the purpose of discussing > things like this. It's not rocket science, Jerry. Even you should be > able to figure that out. I can't help it that you just don't want to > and think that this list is your personal playground where anything goes. Ok, that last bit was a bit insulting, and was uncalled for. I apologize for that. However, that does not change the fact that you and the other noisy few who just *have* to drag an off-topic discussion on and on and on and on to the point where it's not even beating a dead horse any more - the horse is GLUE at this point - is incredibly inconsiderate to all the other people on this list who are here for reading and discussion things that pertain directly to the Debian operating system and its software package. Which is, after all, the stated purpose of this list. An Debian Off-Topic list was created specifically for the purpose of allowing Debian users a place where they can discuss politics, DRM, the FSF condemning ant-eaters for eating ants, etc. to their heart's content. People on that list want to discuss, and see discussions, on all those other subjects. THIS list is here for the purpose stated above. When you guys keep going on and on and on about something which is blatantly, patently off-topic for it, you are, in fact, being extremely rude and inconsiderate of all those others - many of whom may simply be lurking to read and learn. When you flood the list with so much noise that the actual signal starts to be drowned out, you effectively ruin the usefulness of the list for its intended purpose. I've been using the internet since the 80's, and yes, I'm perfectly capable of kill-filing those topics. If all I was concerned about was just me, I'd do it. But I want the list to remain useful for others as well. On a strictly personal level, face it - I'm on this list because of its intended purpose. I should not *have* to take steps to filter out off-topic massive threads that just won't go away - NOBODY should have to. Some off-topic stuff is always going to happen on any list. It's just a fact of life that topics will drift a bit every now and then. But when you know damn-well that you're off topic and someone takes the time to nudge you about it, telling them "I'm not going to, just filter it out" is the height of arrogance. What you're saying is that it's way more important that you use the list any way you want and that people who want the list used for its intended purpose can just bugger off. I'm not going to continue this particular discussion on list, because I don't want *this* thread to drag out into Yet Another Off-Topic Thread That Just Won't Die. If you want to discuss further, feel free to reply back to me directly. If you feel the burning need to reply to this on-list, there's not much I can do to stop you. :-) But I won't reply to anything you say there on the list. --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
Ahoj, Dňa Tue, 20 May 2014 14:49:02 -0400 Ken Heard napísal: > The Oxford English Dictionary however agrees with me. This is international ML, not all posters are native English speakers (BTW i never meet any native English speaker), then IMO some tolerance is needed (and expected). regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 5/20/2014 4:26 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 5/20/2014 4:21 PM, David Guntner wrote: Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Why would you be against someone protecting their intellectual property? I'm not, personally. I am, however very much against continued waste of bandwidth on this increasingly off-topic thread. Please take further discussion to the off-topic list, which exists for that purpose. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've pleas been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, get a email reader that will. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bbdc8.7070...@attglobal.net
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > On 5/20/2014 4:21 PM, David Guntner wrote: >> Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: >>> Why would you be against someone protecting their intellectual >>> property? >> >> I'm not, personally. I am, however very much against continued waste of >> bandwidth on this increasingly off-topic thread. Please take further >> discussion to the off-topic list, which exists for that purpose. >> >> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic >> >> And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a >> particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on >> topic." >> >> Thanks. >> > > Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've > been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, > get a email reader that will. No. Just because you and a small group of noisy people are too fscking lazy and inconsiderate to take the topic where it belongs and where it would be WAY more appropriate is not a reason for everyone else on the list who is here for the purpose of talking ABOUT THINGS DIRECTLY RELATED TO DEBIAN to have to make modifications to get your unwanted cruft out of their mail readers. The Debian off-topic list exists expressly for the purpose of discussing things like this. It's not rocket science, Jerry. Even you should be able to figure that out. I can't help it that you just don't want to and think that this list is your personal playground where anything goes. --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 5/20/2014 4:21 PM, David Guntner wrote: Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Why would you be against someone protecting their intellectual property? I'm not, personally. I am, however very much against continued waste of bandwidth on this increasingly off-topic thread. Please take further discussion to the off-topic list, which exists for that purpose. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. Then don't add to the bandwidth with your please to stop. As you've been told before - just ignore the thread. And if you can't do that, get a email reader that will. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537bba65.7040...@attglobal.net
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
Jerry Stuckle grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > Why would you be against someone protecting their intellectual > property? I'm not, personally. I am, however very much against continued waste of bandwidth on this increasingly off-topic thread. Please take further discussion to the off-topic list, which exists for that purpose. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
The Wanderer grabbed a keyboard and wrote: [blah blah blah off topic blah blah blah] People, this off-topic thread has dragged on WAY too long. There's a Debian off-topic mailing list, which exists specifically for that purpose - to let Debian users discuss things that aren't directly related to Debian. PLEASE, for the love of $DEITY and to have some compassion for the people who are on this list because they want to discuss and read things pertaining to the Debian OS without drowning in so much off-topic noise that the list is becoming rendered useless for that purpose, TAKE IT TO OFF-TOPIC. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
Zenaan Harkness grabbed a keyboard and wrote: [blah blah blah off topic blah blah blah] People, this off-topic thread has dragged on WAY too long. There's a Debian off-topic mailing list, which exists specifically for that purpose - to let Debian users discuss things that aren't directly related to Debian. PLEASE, for the love of $DEITY and to have some compassion for the people who are on this list because they want to discuss and read things pertaining to the Debian OS without drowning in so much off-topic noise that the list is becoming rendered useless for that purpose, TAKE IT TO OFF-TOPIC. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
Celejar grabbed a keyboard and wrote: [blah blah blah off topic blah blah blah] People, this off-topic thread has dragged on WAY too long. There's a Debian off-topic mailing list, which exists specifically for that purpose - to let Debian users discuss things that aren't directly related to Debian. PLEASE, for the love of $DEITY and to have some compassion for the people who are on this list because they want to discuss and read things pertaining to the Debian OS without drowning in so much off-topic noise that the list is becoming rendered useless for that purpose, TAKE IT TO OFF-TOPIC. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic And no, the fact that the thing being discussed may or may not affect a particular software package that runs under Debian doesn't make it "on topic." Thanks. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
What about Schrödinger's cat ?. Both guilty and not guilty at the same time ? Padr On 20 May 2014 19:41, Ric Moore wrote: > On 05/20/2014 12:05 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: >> >> On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:03:21 Alois Mahdal wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:45:00 -0400 >>> >>> Celejar wrote: >>> >>> On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm >>> >>> >>> [...] >>> If you take the trouble to follow the link I posted above, you'll see an entire paper - one of the most brilliantly erudite and funniest things I have ever read - devoted to that question. >>> >>> >>> I am confused about the meaning of n. He first states that >>> >>>n = (P - 10) / 10; # P being population of Sodom, >>> >>> so n has no particular known weight or meaning: Is it n = 1 if >>> we save 1 innocent for 1 guilty? Is it n = 10 if we save 1 >>> innocent for 10 guilty? That would almost make sense except >>> that it would silently imply P = 110. >>> >>> Then, in the rest of the article, he refers to n but, failing >>> to explain the meaning of it, I don't see any point of reading >>> it. >>> >>> Did I miss something? >> >> >> Yes - that it is OT and doesn't matter. >> >> Lisi > > > + 1 !! Some one call in a moderator, PLEASE!!! We've gone from unmarked > helicopters to weather balloons and "The Lord is coming soon!" Someone just > say no! :/ Ric > > . > > > -- > My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: > > "There are two Great Sins in the world... > > ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. > > Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. > > https://linuxcounter.net/cert/44256.png > > X-oldie-warning: Toothless but still vicious > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject > of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537ba1f0.8010...@gmail.com > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cae8iojtnyaegs79pdw7pm_0jcrzcbnm3xziqgq+3_tzem_f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 05/20/2014 09:45 AM, Celejar wrote: I'd like to ask that question of every politician, and every police officer, and so forth. I think it could be quite illuminating. Celejar Excellent topic! It needs to be on the OT list where it can get the debate it deserves. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. https://linuxcounter.net/cert/44256.png X-oldie-warning: Toothless but still vicious -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537ba707.8080...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
On Tue, 20 May 2014 14:49:02 -0400 Ken Heard wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 2014-05-20 12:16, Filip wrote: > > > On Tue, 20 May 2014 17:03:16 +0100 Lisi Reisz > > wrote: > > > >> (Sorry, Ken. re-sending correctly to list.) > >> > >> On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: > >>> Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The > >>> beginning of the last line quoted above should consequently > >>> read "all the scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in > >>> this thread make the same error. The singular of data is > >>> datum. > >> > >> This is of course, grammatically correct. But I would argue > >> that, although in formal writing it should certainly be treated > >> as a plural, in colloquial speech it no longer is. I would also > >> argue that emails are colloquial speech not formal writing. > >> > >> This does not apply in the same way to all of your "group". > >> Where it is needful to have both a singular and a plural, as in > >> bacterium/bacteria and criterion/criteria it would be perverse > >> to make a plural by putting an s on the plural! (Though some > >> people do.) > >> > >> Language changes, whether one wishes it or not. We no longer > >> speak the English of Shakespeare or the King James' Bible. I > >> still sometimes catch myself using the present subjunctive in > >> speech. I do not think that I am correct to do so. For this > >> usage it is dead. Indeed, for all intents and purposes, the > >> imperfect subjunctive is dead. > >> > >> Lisi > >> > >> > > > > The dictionary agrees with you. > > > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data > > > > "Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more > > common in print, evidently because the house style of several > > publishers mandates it." > > The Oxford English Dictionary however agrees with me. > > Regards, Ken > > No it doesn't. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/data?q=data "In modern non-scientific use, however, it is generally not treated as a plural. Instead, it is treated as a mass noun, similar to a word like information, which takes a singular verb." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520210248.367c2...@orac.fil
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-05-20 12:16, Filip wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2014 17:03:16 +0100 Lisi Reisz > wrote: > >> (Sorry, Ken. re-sending correctly to list.) >> >> On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: >>> Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The >>> beginning of the last line quoted above should consequently >>> read "all the scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in >>> this thread make the same error. The singular of data is >>> datum. >> >> This is of course, grammatically correct. But I would argue >> that, although in formal writing it should certainly be treated >> as a plural, in colloquial speech it no longer is. I would also >> argue that emails are colloquial speech not formal writing. >> >> This does not apply in the same way to all of your "group". >> Where it is needful to have both a singular and a plural, as in >> bacterium/bacteria and criterion/criteria it would be perverse >> to make a plural by putting an s on the plural! (Though some >> people do.) >> >> Language changes, whether one wishes it or not. We no longer >> speak the English of Shakespeare or the King James' Bible. I >> still sometimes catch myself using the present subjunctive in >> speech. I do not think that I am correct to do so. For this >> usage it is dead. Indeed, for all intents and purposes, the >> imperfect subjunctive is dead. >> >> Lisi >> >> > > The dictionary agrees with you. > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data > > "Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more > common in print, evidently because the house style of several > publishers mandates it." The Oxford English Dictionary however agrees with me. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlN7o54ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTe+BACZAXGtDKucUfgEm+xRAZM5O2Xn KtsAni6A7sQ25YzW7gS7xxQidTXJHW68 =+Iwn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537ba39e.8060...@teksavvy.com
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On 05/20/2014 03:24 AM, Erwan David wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić wrote: Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that does not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on Gnome 3 software like network-manager but do not want to use systemd. AFAIUI: It's not clear that systemd-shim is going to be updated to deal with systemd 208 (it works with systemd 204) because of changes in the kernel's cgroup implementation because Ubuntu's switching to systemd so it doesn't need to do so. So unless someone packages Ubuntu's cgmanager and patches logind 208 to use it (and perhaps does even more than that), it's unlikely that systemd-shim will be useful in jessie as a systemd mini-/micro-substitute. You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have choice" were actually false... You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to shrink. Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives, if less than a year after the alternatives are killed. And looking at all the blocking bugs on systemd, I'm afraid. Such major change should be done gradually with well tested software, not software that beaks existing configurations. I wionder why so much haste ? This REALLY belongs to the OT list, along with the other unmarked helicopter issues. Thanks, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. https://linuxcounter.net/cert/44256.png X-oldie-warning: Toothless but still vicious -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b9eb6.2080...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-05-20 12:03, Lisi Reisz wrote: > (Sorry, Ken. resending correctly to list.) > > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: >> Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The >> beginning of the last line quoted above should consequently read >> "all the scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this >> thread make the same error. The singular of data is datum. > > This is of course, gramatically correct. But I would argue that, > although in formal writing it should certainly be treated as a > plural, in colloquial speech it no longer is. I would also argue > that emails are colloquial speech not formal writing. I would not consider my e-mails be colloquial speech. > This does not apply in the same way to all of your "group". Where > it is needful to have both a singular and a plural, as in > bacterium/bacteria and criterion/criteria it would be perverse to > make a plural by putting an s on the plural! (Though some people > do.) Some people however do use the word "medias". On the other hand does anyone use the word datas? If not, it is logical to conclude that they give word "data" a plural meaning. In that case, if it is the subject of a sentence or clause it should take the plural form of the verb. > Language changes, whether one wishes it or not. In most cases out of ignorance. > We no longer speak the English of Shakespeare or the King James' > Bible. I still sometimes catch myself using the present > subjunctive in speech. I do not think that I am correct to do so. > For this usage it is dead. Indeed, for all intents and purposes, > the imperfect subjunctive is dead. I use both the present and imperfect subjunctive all the time in speech, and even in e-mails. Regards, Ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlN7on0ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTfJCgCfQo9WIAD68DBmxaogC316JVMl vjQAnjH3MBA1wVCM5VxbAnuNU1NMBqNG =6Z6i -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537ba27d.1000...@teksavvy.com
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
On 05/20/2014 12:05 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:03:21 Alois Mahdal wrote: On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:45:00 -0400 Celejar wrote: On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm [...] If you take the trouble to follow the link I posted above, you'll see an entire paper - one of the most brilliantly erudite and funniest things I have ever read - devoted to that question. I am confused about the meaning of n. He first states that n = (P - 10) / 10; # P being population of Sodom, so n has no particular known weight or meaning: Is it n = 1 if we save 1 innocent for 1 guilty? Is it n = 10 if we save 1 innocent for 10 guilty? That would almost make sense except that it would silently imply P = 110. Then, in the rest of the article, he refers to n but, failing to explain the meaning of it, I don't see any point of reading it. Did I miss something? Yes - that it is OT and doesn't matter. Lisi + 1 !! Some one call in a moderator, PLEASE!!! We've gone from unmarked helicopters to weather balloons and "The Lord is coming soon!" Someone just say no! :/ Ric . -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. https://linuxcounter.net/cert/44256.png X-oldie-warning: Toothless but still vicious -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537ba1f0.8010...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
Yeah, if you'm dumb, why not be dumbder.. Wen us all jess grunts is be no confison yeah! On 20 May 2014 19:19, Brian wrote: > On Tue 20 May 2014 at 17:03:16 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: > > > Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning > > > of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the > > > scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make the > > > same error. The singular of data is datum. > > > > This is of course, gramatically correct. But I would argue that, > although in > > formal writing it should certainly be treated as a plural, in colloquial > > speech it no longer is. I would also argue that emails are colloquial > speech > > not formal writing. > > >From our correspondent in London, UK. > > Yesterday representatives of the Trade Union Congress, the Mother Union, > the Charity Commission and the Royal Society of Pedants met to discuss > issues of common concern. In a press release a spokesperson said: > > "In tweny years there may be less people whose data is not in our > records. Our important criteria is to plan for the future. If we are > unable to make a sound judgement then the dice is cast." > > Pick the bones out of that. > > Roll on colloquial speech, particularly in the media! > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: > https://lists.debian.org/20140520181905.gh17...@copernicus.demon.co.uk > >
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 17:03:16 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: > > Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning > > of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the > > scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make the > > same error. The singular of data is datum. > > This is of course, gramatically correct. But I would argue that, although in > formal writing it should certainly be treated as a plural, in colloquial > speech it no longer is. I would also argue that emails are colloquial speech > not formal writing. >From our correspondent in London, UK. Yesterday representatives of the Trade Union Congress, the Mother Union, the Charity Commission and the Royal Society of Pedants met to discuss issues of common concern. In a press release a spokesperson said: "In tweny years there may be less people whose data is not in our records. Our important criteria is to plan for the future. If we are unable to make a sound judgement then the dice is cast." Pick the bones out of that. Roll on colloquial speech, particularly in the media! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520181905.gh17...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Immediate problem resolved -- Re: Max number of loop devices OR "efficient search of Debian documentation"
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Richard Hector wrote: > On 20/05/14 23:50, Richard Owlett wrote: >> I read the man pages for all the commands others referenced but didn't >> come with any extrapolation to improve my skills at retrieving >> information on my own. >> Any suggestions? > > Experience, I think :-( No need to frowny-face that. Experience, and the sharing of it, is exactly what these sorts of mailing lists excel at. I've been reading here for only a few days (mainly trying to get my head around systemd, having jumped onto the wrong bandwagon a few years ago by switching to Upstart), and in along with the interminable debates, there's quite a lot of superb information to be learned. ChrisA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAPTjJmpQj8K99Po3v5AwDpzgx+FvnvXZF3ps=27bdvxa4bh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: new 3.14-1-amd64 kernel will not boot
On 05/20/2014 01:30 PM, John Bleichert wrote: Same on my HP xw6200. With acpi=rsdt kernel boot parameter boots and seems to work for now on my machine. More info: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73911 There is a proposed patch in bug 748574 That I could not test yet. I did try the kernel patch yesterday morning with no luck. Also, booting acpi=rsdt didn't seem to change anything. Someone mentioned F8 level bios code for their gigabyte board - highest available for mine is F6 - I will keep on the lookout for an update. I have to take that back. /boot had become a mess with kernels so I removed all the custom stuff, ran "aptitude install linux-image-3.14-1-amd64" and, wouldn't you know it, everything seems to run fine. No idea what changed. At all. I would update the debian bug but it may only confuse things... -- --- John Bleichert-syb...@earthlink.net The heat from below can burn your eyes out! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b938d.6060...@earthlink.net
Re: new 3.14-1-amd64 kernel will not boot
On 05/20/2014 12:43 PM, Erwan David wrote: Loading Linux 3.14-1-amd64 ... Loading initial ramdisk ... early console in decompress_kernel Decompressing Linux... Parsing ELF... done. Booting the kernel. *stall* Same on my HP xw6200. With acpi=rsdt kernel boot parameter boots and seems to work for now on my machine. More info: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73911 There is a proposed patch in bug 748574 That I could not test yet. I did try the kernel patch yesterday morning with no luck. Also, booting acpi=rsdt didn't seem to change anything. Someone mentioned F8 level bios code for their gigabyte board - highest available for mine is F6 - I will keep on the lookout for an update. -- --- John Bleichert-syb...@earthlink.net The heat from below can burn your eyes out! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b911d.4000...@earthlink.net
Re: Immediate problem resolved -- Re: Max number of loop devices OR "efficient search of Debian documentation"
On 20/05/14 23:50, Richard Owlett wrote: > I read the man pages for all the commands others referenced but didn't > come with any extrapolation to improve my skills at retrieving > information on my own. > Any suggestions? Experience, I think :-( Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b8aaf.10...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
On 21/05/14 04:24, Sven Hartge wrote: > Kenneth Jacker wrote: > >> I am buying two new SATA hard drives: 1TB and 2TB. > >> I'd like to use the 2TB unit for backups (typical Linux directories >> and files) ... with just a single file system (ext4 most likely). > >> Will 'mkfs' create "enough" inodes? Or, would it be better to, say, >> split the 2TB into four 500GB file systems. Or, some other approach? > > I have in my 15 years as Linux admin only run out if inodes in two > cases: > > a) INN2 usenet server with traditional spool which contained a metric > sh*t ton of very very small files. Needed to recreate the filesystem > with a bytes-per-inode size of 1024. > > b) squid2 spool directory. Also a motherlode of very small files. > > In all other cases the defaults of mke2fs were sane and no need for > further tuning was needed. Just look at the inode/byte ratio of the > filesystems you want to backup. Your destination will show the same > ratio. There's another way I've run out; it may mean I've been doing the wrong thing. I like to create filesystems relatively small, on LVM, so that any of them can be grown later, when I find out where the space is needed. But extending an ext(2|3|4) filesystem doesn't create new inodes, so the ratio of inodes to space drops, and eventually this is a problem. > And if you really want to be on the safe side: use XFS. And that's my solution. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b8a46.3000...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: new 3.14-1-amd64 kernel will not boot
Le 20/05/2014 18:27, Danie Heins a écrit : > On 05/18/2014 01:24 AM, John Bleichert wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> Running jessie/sid on an i7. Just installed todays updates which >> included an update from 3.13-1-amd64 to 3.14-1-amd64 and the new kernel >> does not boot, it just stalls at "Booting the kernel" (full console >> below). Any idea how to debug this? The previous 3.13 kernel boots just >> fine! Phew! >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> --- >> >> Loading Linux 3.14-1-amd64 ... >> Loading initial ramdisk ... >> early console in decompress_kernel >> >> Decompressing Linux... Parsing ELF... done. >> Booting the kernel. >> >> *stall* >> > > Same on my HP xw6200. > > With acpi=rsdt kernel boot parameter boots and seems to work for now > on my machine. > > More info: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73911 > > There is a proposed patch in bug 748574 That I could not test yet. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b861b.6000...@rail.eu.org
Re: new 3.14-1-amd64 kernel will not boot
On 05/18/2014 01:24 AM, John Bleichert wrote: Hello All, Running jessie/sid on an i7. Just installed todays updates which included an update from 3.13-1-amd64 to 3.14-1-amd64 and the new kernel does not boot, it just stalls at "Booting the kernel" (full console below). Any idea how to debug this? The previous 3.13 kernel boots just fine! Phew! Thanks, John --- Loading Linux 3.14-1-amd64 ... Loading initial ramdisk ... early console in decompress_kernel Decompressing Linux... Parsing ELF... done. Booting the kernel. *stall* Same on my HP xw6200. With acpi=rsdt kernel boot parameter boots and seems to work for now on my machine. More info: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73911 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b826b.6090...@mail.bg
Re: Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
Kenneth Jacker wrote: > I am buying two new SATA hard drives: 1TB and 2TB. > I'd like to use the 2TB unit for backups (typical Linux directories > and files) ... with just a single file system (ext4 most likely). > Will 'mkfs' create "enough" inodes? Or, would it be better to, say, > split the 2TB into four 500GB file systems. Or, some other approach? I have in my 15 years as Linux admin only run out if inodes in two cases: a) INN2 usenet server with traditional spool which contained a metric sh*t ton of very very small files. Needed to recreate the filesystem with a bytes-per-inode size of 1024. b) squid2 spool directory. Also a motherlode of very small files. In all other cases the defaults of mke2fs were sane and no need for further tuning was needed. Just look at the inode/byte ratio of the filesystems you want to backup. Your destination will show the same ratio. And if you really want to be on the safe side: use XFS. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7amik4iat...@mids.svenhartge.de
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
On Tue, 20 May 2014 11:26:41 -0400 The Wanderer wrote: > [...] > > If that's not (related to) what you're asking, then I'm > afraid I don't understand the question. No, I think you understood; my confusion came from not understanding the text correctly; perhaps because I'm not a native English speaker and perhaps also because of my impatience. (And apparently reading tons of technical material in my life did not make my understanding of other language close to perfect :)) Thank you for clarification, I'll re-read the article once more. aL. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520182029.5208c...@hugo.daonet.home
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
On Tue, 20 May 2014 17:03:16 +0100 Lisi Reisz wrote: > (Sorry, Ken. resending correctly to list.) > > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: > > Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning > > of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the > > scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make > > the same error. The singular of data is datum. > > This is of course, gramatically correct. But I would argue that, > although in formal writing it should certainly be treated as a > plural, in colloquial speech it no longer is. I would also argue > that emails are colloquial speech not formal writing. > > This does not apply in the same way to all of your "group". Where it > is needful to have both a singular and a plural, as in > bacterium/bacteria and criterion/criteria it would be perverse to > make a plural by putting an s on the plural! (Though some people do.) > > Language changes, whether one wishes it or not. We no longer speak > the English of Shakespeare or the King James' Bible. I still > sometimes catch myself using the present subjunctive in speech. I do > not think that I am correct to do so. For this usage it is dead. > Indeed, for all intents and purposes, the imperfect subjunctive is > dead. > > Lisi > > The dictionary agrees with you. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data "Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more common in print, evidently because the house style of several publishers mandates it." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520181615.20724...@orac.fil
Large File Systems - Enough inodes?
I am buying two new SATA hard drives: 1TB and 2TB. I'd like to use the 2TB unit for backups (typical Linux directories and files) ... with just a single file system (ext4 most likely). Will 'mkfs' create "enough" inodes? Or, would it be better to, say, split the 2TB into four 500GB file systems. Or, some other approach? Thanks for your ideas! -- Prof Kenneth H Jacker k...@cs.appstate.edu Computer Science Dept www.cs.appstate.edu/~khj Appalachian State Univ Boone, NC 28608 USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8761l0e9rz@be.cs.appstate.edu
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
N is guilty. Hang the bastard! -- Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org Buckinghamshire, England | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b7dca.1030...@vanderhoff.org
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:03:21 Alois Mahdal wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:45:00 -0400 > > Celejar wrote: > > > >> On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: > > > >>> But this is precisely the problem with some of the > > > >>> dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should > > > >>> abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually > > > >>> impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will > > > >>> ever be "persecuted": > > > >>> http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm > > [...] > > > If you take the trouble to follow the link I posted above, > > you'll see an entire paper - one of the most brilliantly > > erudite and funniest things I have ever read - devoted to > > that question. > > I am confused about the meaning of n. He first states that > > n = (P - 10) / 10; # P being population of Sodom, > > so n has no particular known weight or meaning: Is it n = 1 if > we save 1 innocent for 1 guilty? Is it n = 10 if we save 1 > innocent for 10 guilty? That would almost make sense except > that it would silently imply P = 110. > > Then, in the rest of the article, he refers to n but, failing > to explain the meaning of it, I don't see any point of reading > it. > > Did I miss something? Yes - that it is OT and doesn't matter. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201405201705.44128.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
(Sorry, Ken. resending correctly to list.) On Tuesday 20 May 2014 16:00:42 Ken Heard wrote: > Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning > of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the > scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make the > same error. The singular of data is datum. This is of course, gramatically correct. But I would argue that, although in formal writing it should certainly be treated as a plural, in colloquial speech it no longer is. I would also argue that emails are colloquial speech not formal writing. This does not apply in the same way to all of your "group". Where it is needful to have both a singular and a plural, as in bacterium/bacteria and criterion/criteria it would be perverse to make a plural by putting an s on the plural! (Though some people do.) Language changes, whether one wishes it or not. We no longer speak the English of Shakespeare or the King James' Bible. I still sometimes catch myself using the present subjunctive in speech. I do not think that I am correct to do so. For this usage it is dead. Indeed, for all intents and purposes, the imperfect subjunctive is dead. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201405201703.16833.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: where are the old packages (supersceded?)
Hi Wanderer, On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:54 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > If you got it from the official Debian package repositories at some > point in the past, then that version of the package should be available > through snapshot.debian.org. > > You may have to dig a bit, but it should be there. Right on !!! http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian-security/20140101T163218Z/pool/updates/main/l/linux/ Didn't find the snapshot link from top debian.org, very good pointer indeed. Cheers, Phi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cajor74jv03hq2xdefxeo5bfiljz-usk6pmymq81730bneiz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: where are the old packages (supersceded?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/20/2014 11:46 AM, Phi Debian wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking for the kernel debug info package for uname like this > (from a crash, don't have the system at hand) > > 3.2.0-4-686-pae (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) (gcc version 4.6.3 (Debian > 4.6.3-14) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.2.46-1\012" > > Where can I find a package (.deb) named like this > linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae_dbg_3.2.46-1 > > Any pointer appreciated. If you got it from the official Debian package repositories at some point in the past, then that version of the package should be available through snapshot.debian.org. You may have to dig a bit, but it should be there. - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTe3qcAAoJEASpNY00KDJrFR4P/3HHsTn3gth2OoWNtwwft065 w5CFThoaKYK7jKV7sW/cTLxANo2ZNagmxzLxJMj6PKSuhOA/NPw5gJRrGQ6KpdHZ YSZdJ+vMEQyOmkOi659guceM66i1+ttrpY92xGFSG7/SOsBVCOS3bk+SMAPLpBSk GrXDdne7oGSsX4w8kMAWW5xowEo4mXSAGxM2IxHxcn1Q2z5cZ0pf1OP7vOJ+NWon UErhBmyrdtiwqvLSaM+4W994bYRH0mSJ7TDkA+C0BfeoN/C21vooxmF2xLCO2vv7 23AHyvFiUMWdIBpT7Yi7sAp2QRsNxCpELjTvMPZXtkxw7CrXhkpP5tQrlE6ZXSgw HGa0rrStU5y35Xek5qjlLaLzTuXJ2nUksgg2viohgC4EtHfuk1JqyP/kxbguaR0j PbjFUHI7xaFphTmFeP0PkJ0iO9Ra9RSgXptE72LiVtZk+7EUWJEOghMsbegkDETp GUV/evtHtMvDxRswWRHH5myA62Gtsnunds/I3ZlGYZ+t5dspXzhBj5iFSN3hrwA4 W4Eu9bVFl/NPYEGXbQmp6NdrWSrYLiUHOQpPRAFbgO0LYHRKBpD8NFsFTqrkVLkU Gv3U7ChDkJPvndvIhSthd0Q1QI2Nb1uaEiHz+z5sDp1FxrxFZ+kM2AKaXGQsVr2J KIi+1vxVFWfgBhcLAAJ9 =JRX1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b7a9c.80...@fastmail.fm
where are the old packages (supersceded?)
Hi All, I am looking for the kernel debug info package for uname like this (from a crash, don't have the system at hand) 3.2.0-4-686-pae (debian-ker...@lists.debian.org) (gcc version 4.6.3 (Debian 4.6.3-14) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.2.46-1\012" Where can I find a package (.deb) named like this linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae_dbg_3.2.46-1 Any pointer appreciated. Cheers, Phi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cajor74hcgdhakoozboykjtuoq4cevhpmjbtjt-8tpbrq-zf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 07:54:19 -0700, Horatio Leragon wrote: > No. > > I have been using PendriveLinux and Rufus to "burn" ISOs (Debian, > ArchLinux, FreeBSD, Ubuntu, Linux Mint) without problems. That's fine ; who can argue with success. The OP, however, has a problem with installing from netinst and cd-1 images. The images are isohybrids and there has been no well-documented reports of the supported method not working. I, for one, am not up for debugging unetbootin in order to help bring about a solution to any problems met during installation. The method advised provides a known starting point. (I'm talking here about writing the image under Linux but would be more sympathatic should the user only have access to Windows for this process). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014161559.291790406...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 09:16:41PM -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: > I believe hplip is maintained by the same people who maintain CUPS. If > not the two groups are certainly in constant friendly communication. hplip is maintained by Debian HPIJS and HPLIP maintainers: pkg-hpijs-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org cups is maintained by Debian Printing Team: debian-print...@lists.debian.org Changelogs show different maintainers as far as I can tell. > And in friendly communication with Apple, which has its on axe(s) to > grind. Imagine the consequences for Apple if CUPS became obsolete and > unuseable to Apple, because of a future trend in networked computing. True, they probably do so. The only thing that I cannot imagine is Apple caring about PolicyKit, which is not used in Macs, being favorite RedHat toy. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520151049.GA31910@x101h
Re: OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/20/2014 11:03 AM, Alois Mahdal wrote: > I am confused about the meaning of n. He first states that > > n = (P - 10) / 10; # P being population of Sodom, Actually, he first states that (taking excerpts): >> "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent >> suffer," 2 says English jurist William Blackstone. >> But why ten? >> n guilty men, then. I.e., N is the number of guilty persons for which it is better that they escape punishment than that one innocent person suffer it. (Or similar statements throughout history.) The reference to Sodom comes only later, as one of the many examples of people using this idea - with different values for N - over the course of history. It doesn't define the value of N any more than any other of the examples do; it's just one example among many. > so n has no particular known weight or meaning: Is it n = 1 if we > save 1 innocent for 1 guilty? Is it n = 10 if we save 1 innocent for > 10 guilty? That would almost make sense except that it would > silently imply P = 110. It would only imply that if the value of N is the same in both cases. The point here is that different people have stated different values for N at different points in history; some people have said 1, some people have said 10, God apparently said (P - 10) where the value of P is not known to us, et cetera. > Then, in the rest of the article, he refers to n but, failing to > explain the meaning of it, I don't see any point of reading it. > > Did I miss something? I think the first section, concluding with the paragraph that begins "N guilty men, then.", is probably the explanation that you're looking for. The article appears to be specifically about the many different values people have used for N over the course of the long history of this idea. If that's not (related to) what you're asking, then I'm afraid I don't understand the question. - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTe3QxAAoJEASpNY00KDJrC7IP/0dZpWGGgEbihtgF5COOKJDV CVRAcR8lsI4dbQF2KpczjQLkIOJ1U9JqVZc4vUqHE/W2x3cjCh0ZpDhtiG3VbsWN n9sxm2PwUFCxaJMLxKi49V1owpQrtSS5ir2mSTzs2GLuUiglUV7m+n1jJFKaoq/b c9g8cy/GQTk/kxaAvXONE3KNbejG+kXLiFglpD1/Pih59tEkD6h46vzfxe4eC1R+ nCFTwuWj/f2da74yiDC4HIbys9+BcNiyKhMd9rJidvEt0GNR/u4l7T+AAL1lcdK0 mx0fj6Gk3KvRiH16t1G+5ajjvPxXrnzG4+OX95NaoFI3/FysA9a6TkDpGuBdEXHD NI/V72l0vZbh3QNkaZ1wjeM0oIIIzdqLldXROyvuqIJzjAFBmcYC67pk0iiK4N7E o/RR7y3oCeGynKex3AqBnB20ZUf4nmRKst5G+rM7DPlgDfjT+zvXRY8xGjaHgut0 vTB8eswxt3qJJFOgofX2CRZIpIbOcNBqsTTSwxF3vK+hfu+6NeT1dDjuVTxvTc5j PkVybmAr8J/HEvrex0TjtKqmK8vk03fTJ0TJt5opmf8LSMn/h04zilKvvzQAljwZ iY0j9/9PdY/PqRA+b6IeLr7nGrymqRX3r9svEZo7iTQYH3MktUtZFQVmW3gWxHNy 0OJM/utwx7Gx0luOy9Rd =AFMM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b7431.6000...@fastmail.fm
OT: n guilty men: what is n? [Was: Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe...]
On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:45:00 -0400 Celejar wrote: > > >> On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: > > > > >>> But this is precisely the problem with some of the > > >>> dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should > > >>> abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually > > >>> impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will > > >>> ever be "persecuted": > > >>> http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm [...] > If you take the trouble to follow the link I posted above, > you'll see an entire paper - one of the most brilliantly > erudite and funniest things I have ever read - devoted to > that question. I am confused about the meaning of n. He first states that n = (P - 10) / 10; # P being population of Sodom, so n has no particular known weight or meaning: Is it n = 1 if we save 1 innocent for 1 guilty? Is it n = 10 if we save 1 innocent for 10 guilty? That would almost make sense except that it would silently imply P = 110. Then, in the rest of the article, he refers to n but, failing to explain the meaning of it, I don't see any point of reading it. Did I miss something? Thanks, aL. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520170321.75d0d...@hugo.daonet.home
Re: Debian 5 -- "data" is plural.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-05-19 16:22, Mike McGinn wrote: > I would suggest identifying an backing up the scientific data. I > would suggest putting a backuo program in place and auditing the > backups to make sure that all the scientific data is backed up. > Only then would I think about upgrading. Please note everybody that the word "data" is plural. The beginning of the last line quoted above should consequently read "all the scientific data *are* backed up." Other posts in this thread make the same error. The singular of data is datum. Other words in the same family are: medium -> media, criterion -> criteria, bacterium -> bacteria. There are several others. Regards, Ken Heard -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlN7bhoACgkQlNlJzOkJmTe7oACeNY2cIvjwEirsfe/1Qs3zNvCN zf8Anil4a5EjlSVmak26yRpo1xF6sgH6 =79V8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b6e1a.3020...@teksavvy.com
Re: Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64
No. I have been using PendriveLinux and Rufus to "burn" ISOs (Debian, ArchLinux, FreeBSD, Ubuntu, Linux Mint) without problems. From: Brian To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:39 PM Subject: Re: Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64 On Tue 20 May 2014 at 15:28:55 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 15:17:13 Eneko Lacunza wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm having trouble with latest cdimages of arch=amd64. I tried with > > netinst iso and also with cd1 iso. I burn them to a USB pendrive using > > unetbootin using (updated) Ubuntu 12.04 . > > Try using Debian directly. > > For method: > https://wiki.debian.org/BootUsb > https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb > > For images (see the bottom of the page) > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/debian-installer/ Good advice ; using cat or dd is the supported method. There is also the manual to read. Note that unetbootin is not mentioned at all and its use is to be avoided. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014153601.1c47f0664...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Anyone using exim with fastmail.fm's smtp server as smart host?
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 12:57:01 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > According to > https://www.fastmail.fm/help/technical/servernamesandports.html what you > require is mail.messagingengine.com port 465 (old-style SSL) or port 587 > (with STARTTLS). You shouldn't need to pretend to be anyone else to send > your email. I'd advise port 587 with exim. As you say, the pretence isn't needed. > For exim, > http://www.manu-j.com/blog/wordpress-exim4-ubuntu-gmail-smtp/75/ > suggests to set the smarthost to "mail.messagingengine.com::587" (when > using debconf) and to add a new routing driver. Probably easiest to just > read that page for the information you require, replacing smtp.gmail.com > with mail.messagingengine.com as appropriate. No new routing driver requires adding with either gmail or fastmail. gmail also accepts authenticated mail on port 25 whereas fastmail refuses connections on that port. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014154850.e22396e06...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 15:28:55 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Tuesday 20 May 2014 15:17:13 Eneko Lacunza wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm having trouble with latest cdimages of arch=amd64. I tried with > > netinst iso and also with cd1 iso. I burn them to a USB pendrive using > > unetbootin using (updated) Ubuntu 12.04 . > > Try using Debian directly. > > For method: > https://wiki.debian.org/BootUsb > https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb > > For images (see the bottom of the page) > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/debian-installer/ Good advice ; using cat or dd is the supported method. There is also the manual to read. Note that unetbootin is not mentioned at all and its use is to be avoided. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014153601.1c47f0664...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64
On Tuesday 20 May 2014 15:17:13 Eneko Lacunza wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm having trouble with latest cdimages of arch=amd64. I tried with > netinst iso and also with cd1 iso. I burn them to a USB pendrive using > unetbootin using (updated) Ubuntu 12.04 . Try using Debian directly. For method: https://wiki.debian.org/BootUsb https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb For images (see the bottom of the page) https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/debian-installer/ HTH Lisi > They work ok, except the installer doesn't find any suitable kernel to > install, even with network connection. I have to make some dirty > workarounds from a shell and install the kernel package by hand. > > This has happened with two differentes servers (one Fujitsu and the > other Dell) so I don't think it's a hw problem. > > Any hint? > > Thanks a lot > Eneko > > -- > Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico > Binovo IT Human Project, S.L. > Telf. 943575997 >943493611 > Astigarraga bidea 2, planta 6 dcha., ofi. 3-2; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa) > www.binovo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201405201528.55811.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Problem with latest cdimage cd1/netinst amd64
Hi all, I'm having trouble with latest cdimages of arch=amd64. I tried with netinst iso and also with cd1 iso. I burn them to a USB pendrive using unetbootin using (updated) Ubuntu 12.04 . They work ok, except the installer doesn't find any suitable kernel to install, even with network connection. I have to make some dirty workarounds from a shell and install the kernel package by hand. This has happened with two differentes servers (one Fujitsu and the other Dell) so I don't think it's a hw problem. Any hint? Thanks a lot Eneko -- Zuzendari Teknikoa / Director Técnico Binovo IT Human Project, S.L. Telf. 943575997 943493611 Astigarraga bidea 2, planta 6 dcha., ofi. 3-2; 20180 Oiartzun (Gipuzkoa) www.binovo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b63e9.8030...@binovo.es
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 5/20/2014 9:09 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 5/19/2014 8:17 AM, Richard Hector wrote: On 20/05/14 00:14, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 5/19/2014 7:58 AM, Richard Hector wrote: [...] Actually I had a similar problem many years ago - I was working with a perfectly legal but rather obsolete version of SCO Xenix, which had an activation mechanism that was no longer supported. I would have liked to reinstall the system (and was also at risk of damaging it), and had the tape (!), but the activation service was no longer available. The software in that case was still copyright, but (or at least my client) was still perfectly entitled to use it, but technically prevented. Richard I don't know the terms of the license, but it is perfectly valid for a company to put a time or other limit in a license. Your client may or may not have been entitled to continue to use it. But if the client were able to legally use it, I would think the current copyright owner would be obliged to provide an alternate activation mechanism. Getting them to do it may be difficult, though. SCO Xenix? Current copyright owner? May be difficult? For your reading pleasure, Jerry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group I'm familiar with SCO - in fact, probably much more that you are, since I was around and active in in computers when they first formed. And no, it would not be hard to find out who owns the copyright. A simple check at the copyright office will show it. If that doesn't, it will be documented in the court papers who got the assets. Not hard at all. Shouldn't take someone knowledgeable more than a few hours at most. And you may be interested in this product of the rabble which you think opposes you: http://www.groklaw.net/ What about it? Nothing new in there. And in the case where the copyright has elapsed? The main point, rather than my additional comment? Richard Are you saying the only copy in the whole world is protected by DRM? I highly doubt that... And if it is, that would mean it was created since DRM went into effect. Hmm. Are anti-copying provisions that pre-date the DMCA not considered by you and your lawyer to be DRM? No, they are not. And even if they were - for a registered copyright, an unprotected copy must still be included with the copyright application. Which means the copyright won't expire for 75 years or more. By that time, anything computer-related will be so obsolete it will only be of interest to paleontologists. And other works (i.e. music, literature) will have been available in other media. In fact, in the United States, to copyright something you have to provide a copy of the material to the Copyright Office. So there is always at least one copy of something available. But can you show where that is occurring now? If not, I think you're looking for a problem which doesn't exist. Did you read what Richard said? Yes, and my statement stands. You are trying to create a problem where one does not exist. Why would you be against someone protecting their intellectual property? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b60af.3000...@attglobal.net
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:29:57 -0400 Gary Dale wrote: > On 20/05/14 09:07 AM, Celejar wrote: ... > > Of course. But while it's certainly not a zero-sum game, there's > > generally going to be a trade-off: increasing protections for > > defendants will save some innocents, at the expense of letting some > > guilty go free. The same goes for IP regulation: many of us at least > > believe that the law should balance the rights of the IP holders with > > the rights of the consumer, and insisting on absolute freedom for the > > consumer at the expense of the rights of the rights-holders is wrong. > > > > Celejar > > DRM removes all rights from the consumer and places them entirely with > the IP holder. That's not balance in any traditional sense of the word. Come now, that's a gross exaggeration. DRM certainly doesn't remove *all* rights from the consumer, even if we concede that it removes some rights, and may prevent him from some usage that he is entitled to by law. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520094724.6d8716f7f0af266bc3084...@gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, 20 May 2014 09:15:39 -0400 The Wanderer wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 05/20/2014 09:07 AM, Celejar wrote: > > > On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:47:57 +1000 Zenaan Harkness > > wrote: > > > >> On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: > > >>> But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic > >>> idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal > >>> justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that > >>> "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": > >>> http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm > >> > >> I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the > >> way I read it is as: "we must make our best efforts to not > >> persecute blameless people" and "if blameless people are being > >> persecuted, we must make more efforts [eg with our criminal justice > >> system - to fix this problem]". > >> > >> So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this > >> system to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who > >> should not be punished. > >> > >> Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. > > > > Of course. But while it's certainly not a zero-sum game, there's > > generally going to be a trade-off: increasing protections for > > defendants will save some innocents, at the expense of letting some > > guilty go free. The same goes for IP regulation: many of us at least > > believe that the law should balance the rights of the IP holders with > > the rights of the consumer, and insisting on absolute freedom for > > the consumer at the expense of the rights of the rights-holders is > > wrong. > > So is the other way around. > > There's a saying: > > "It is better for X guilty persons to go free than for Y innocent > persons to be punished." > > Traditionally, Y is 1 (with the accompanying change of "innocent > persons" to the singular), and I think X is something like 100 or 1000. > I present it in this form because I think it enables a valuable > question, particularly in context of the third level of quotation above: > > What numbers would you pick for X and Y, for you to accept this > statement as being true? If you take the trouble to follow the link I posted above, you'll see an entire paper - one of the most brilliantly erudite and funniest things I have ever read - devoted to that question. > I'd like to ask that question of every politician, and every police > officer, and so forth. I think it could be quite illuminating. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520094500.d367f95db8860b83d6f33...@gmail.com
Re: Tails
Please, anyone else who wants to object to a perhaps unfortunate turn of phrase, please read the whole thread first. On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:16 AM, André Nunes Batista wrote: > On Sat, 2014-05-17 at 21:06 +1200, Richard Hector wrote: >> On 16/05/14 16:42, Weaver wrote: [ A request for some face-to-face help for a non-technical type as follows: ] >> > Greetings all, >> > >> > Is there anybody on the list in Forteleza, Brazil? >> > >> > There's a young, female, investigative journalist there, who wants to The specifications of "young, female" seem to have been thoroughly misunderstood. I myself thought the mode of expression a little unfortunate. But it is clear, I think, that Weaver was not imagining that we would see any such intent. >> > install Tails onto a USB stick, with a persist partition, but she hasn't >> > got the slightest idea of how to go about it. >> > >> > Any father figures up for a free gig? "gig" has lots of meanings, and there was no need to presuppose the performer of the "gig" in this case. This was a request for help, so we must assume the performing of the "free gig" would be on the part of the helper. Inducing a "sugar daddy" interpretation of the term "father figure" indicates the frame of mind of the reader, and, really, considering the old comic-strip "Li'l Orphan Annie" and the "Daddy Warbucks" character, well, what *is* everyone thinking about? >> FWIW, I consider this method of making a request inappropriate. I'm sure >> some will disagree with me; so be it. Others have commented in the past >> that those who don't stick up for the rights of others than themselves >> are part of the problem. I agree with that to some extent, hence my comment. > > Right, as if you could just blindly trust a flash drive sent over > governmental currier. > > This seems like security backwards: methods developed to ease bypassing > all efforts do keep user at control. I wouldn't trust this flash drive > anymore than I would trust a windows public machine. If the request had been intended to have the nuance read, the concept of what passing a pre-written USB drive is comparable to is telling, but, really, the request was to show the reporter how to do it herself. Weaver decided to send the drive after we misinterpreted his intent. I assume Weaver knows her personally, so she would not be "blindly" accepting the drive. Although the possibility that it might be intercepted en-route is probably the reason he would have preferred to have someone over there walk her through the process in person. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43ipffg14ju9ok+zqk8b4cwbz6nfzfyqoptydbmktzut...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, 2014-05-20 at 21:57 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Andrei POPESCU > wrote: > > On Du, 18 mai 14, 23:06:57, Gary Dale wrote: > >> DRM is a fence. My right to use things that I pay for is restricted by > >> DRM. > > > > Get a refund. > > Ah, but the "license" says, "NO REFUNDS!" I never could read an eBook I owned, because I was not and I am still not willing to register at the Adobe homepage. If I pay for the same book made of paper, I do not have to inform Adobe and the NSA, that I own this book. If I pay the same book made of paper with cash at a local bookshop or local _second-hand bookshop_ I quasi buy it anonymously. Any second-hand eBook-shops out there? Before I downloaded the eBook I wasn't informed, that I need to register at Adobe, to be able to read the book, resp. to _really_ download the book, since the original download was just some meta-data. DRM sucks! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1400591744.3729.9.camel@archlinux
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 20/05/14 09:07 AM, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:47:57 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:40:56 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 5/17/14, Slavko wrote: ... Don't forget, that justice is not when all criminals are imprisoned and/or punished, but when no one blameless is persecuted. Very eloquent and beautiful words. Thank you Slavko. But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the way I read it is as: "we must make our best efforts to not persecute blameless people" and "if blameless people are being persecuted, we must make more efforts [eg with our criminal justice system - to fix this problem]". So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this system to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who should not be punished. Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. Of course. But while it's certainly not a zero-sum game, there's generally going to be a trade-off: increasing protections for defendants will save some innocents, at the expense of letting some guilty go free. The same goes for IP regulation: many of us at least believe that the law should balance the rights of the IP holders with the rights of the consumer, and insisting on absolute freedom for the consumer at the expense of the rights of the rights-holders is wrong. Celejar DRM removes all rights from the consumer and places them entirely with the IP holder. That's not balance in any traditional sense of the word. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b58d5.10...@torfree.net
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/20/2014 09:07 AM, Celejar wrote: > On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:47:57 +1000 Zenaan Harkness > wrote: > >> On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: >>> But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic >>> idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal >>> justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that >>> "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": >>> http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm >> >> I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the >> way I read it is as: "we must make our best efforts to not >> persecute blameless people" and "if blameless people are being >> persecuted, we must make more efforts [eg with our criminal justice >> system - to fix this problem]". >> >> So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this >> system to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who >> should not be punished. >> >> Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. > > Of course. But while it's certainly not a zero-sum game, there's > generally going to be a trade-off: increasing protections for > defendants will save some innocents, at the expense of letting some > guilty go free. The same goes for IP regulation: many of us at least > believe that the law should balance the rights of the IP holders with > the rights of the consumer, and insisting on absolute freedom for > the consumer at the expense of the rights of the rights-holders is > wrong. So is the other way around. There's a saying: "It is better for X guilty persons to go free than for Y innocent persons to be punished." Traditionally, Y is 1 (with the accompanying change of "innocent persons" to the singular), and I think X is something like 100 or 1000. I present it in this form because I think it enables a valuable question, particularly in context of the third level of quotation above: What numbers would you pick for X and Y, for you to accept this statement as being true? I'd like to ask that question of every politician, and every police officer, and so forth. I think it could be quite illuminating. - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTe1V7AAoJEASpNY00KDJrMsIP/1UNn1K6mlUwoUs21JEUds57 SKr7cHjAOpHUA8mi1ULwAH/zFj03PwCzCx/VM8zTjsRxENZV5DQShHC0c38KK8dK KBT6HKMEMf6qzslK2PIol9jYbLlZpnvbM17OHCjCKxCI3CULTqvfxAaEJ/iSPjIP 7lctA9rj9srr6eAO99nqzP0AZ7XjZOPfDAIZimpuHQ03GgkxpzqdOAJU7RSQuIi3 0aW3sVQ0S0QRGD+D4hi+ipRRzJhSHQau61E77v6xXdC43A71ONIwF2XnxwnPXvQ+ eDr9tFdnzFIzvWfxK3uEYfiKXG7AJqkkMhBUHS76EBu021pnry57ju1aIk+sRgap mIUf+PU+i2bXPKclarLiAaJ6rHgaeOgroNyZz3urPGPZGQHZQhe5Daf7zof1Hnnx HBx1Sf2zum6mZvw99OSvBLFusTTJf1j26q0Gloq/i8QzmA48/jbWxD85/bO4zgiS p8BDcrN1xy6hJGYZRTnAUUN2HVqvAMOqf/a7tCiyzRQzm22frB7YAeAJrtF/A7lv nPly6mkgLuV5IsE63veFAVO4Y8KDQtk5VCkFxItbx2wwgfXf0KvZ5kVgJYCwFpGb sk2FK0tnoIfPnUD1VOgXAPDXR6jLvw7McZ+rk7TA840dlS7RIDBA1xaJJYxOzbFr ukl/np7vbd8migBejyZi =rXBg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b557b.2060...@fastmail.fm
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 5/19/2014 8:17 AM, Richard Hector wrote: >> >> On 20/05/14 00:14, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> >>> On 5/19/2014 7:58 AM, Richard Hector wrote: [...] Actually I had a similar problem many years ago - I was working with a perfectly legal but rather obsolete version of SCO Xenix, which had an activation mechanism that was no longer supported. I would have liked to reinstall the system (and was also at risk of damaging it), and had the tape (!), but the activation service was no longer available. The software in that case was still copyright, but (or at least my client) was still perfectly entitled to use it, but technically prevented. Richard >>> >>> I don't know the terms of the license, but it is perfectly valid for a >>> company to put a time or other limit in a license. Your client may or >>> may not have been entitled to continue to use it. >>> >>> But if the client were able to legally use it, I would think the current >>> copyright owner would be obliged to provide an alternate activation >>> mechanism. Getting them to do it may be difficult, though. SCO Xenix? Current copyright owner? May be difficult? For your reading pleasure, Jerry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group And you may be interested in this product of the rabble which you think opposes you: http://www.groklaw.net/ >> And in the case where the copyright has elapsed? The main point, rather >> than my additional comment? >> >> Richard >> > > Are you saying the only copy in the whole world is protected by DRM? I > highly doubt that... And if it is, that would mean it was created since DRM > went into effect. Hmm. Are anti-copying provisions that pre-date the DMCA not considered by you and your lawyer to be DRM? > Which means the copyright won't expire for 75 years or > more. By that time, anything computer-related will be so obsolete it will > only be of interest to paleontologists. And other works (i.e. music, > literature) will have been available in other media. In fact, in the United > States, to copyright something you have to provide a copy of the material to > the Copyright Office. So there is always at least one copy of something > available. > > But can you show where that is occurring now? If not, I think you're > looking for a problem which doesn't exist. > Did you read what Richard said? -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iNpTR8rqeFamW70M2VV2=vmt6mg9wczpjojfnulkek...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:47:57 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: > > On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:40:56 +1000 > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> On 5/17/14, Slavko wrote: > > ... > >> > Don't forget, that justice is not when all criminals are imprisoned > >> > and/or punished, but when no one blameless is persecuted. > >> > >> Very eloquent and beautiful words. > >> Thank you Slavko. > > > > But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists > > here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as > > it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will > > ever be "persecuted": > > http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm > > I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the way I > read it is as: > "we must make our best efforts to not persecute blameless people" and > "if blameless people are being persecuted, we must make more efforts > [eg with our criminal justice system - to fix this problem]". > > So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this system > to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who should not be > punished. > > Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. Of course. But while it's certainly not a zero-sum game, there's generally going to be a trade-off: increasing protections for defendants will save some innocents, at the expense of letting some guilty go free. The same goes for IP regulation: many of us at least believe that the law should balance the rights of the IP holders with the rights of the consumer, and insisting on absolute freedom for the consumer at the expense of the rights of the rights-holders is wrong. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520090712.877457f7cfc322145e246...@gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 18 mai 14, 23:06:57, Gary Dale wrote: >> DRM is a fence. My right to use things that I pay for is restricted by >> DRM. > > Get a refund. Ah, but the "license" says, "NO REFUNDS!" -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iNqTs57WfB9J-Ze5XLLJg9XF9qmur4FScvfOZbbnx=g...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Immediate problem resolved -- Re: Max number of loop devices OR "efficient search of Debian documentation"
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 06:50:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > My config file did include "CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=m" and the two lines > acted as desired. > Thank you. > > However no one addressed the more general question posed in my first > paragraph. > > I read the man pages for all the commands others referenced but > didn't come with any extrapolation to improve my skills at > retrieving information on my own. > Any suggestions? modprobe(8) mentions [module parameters...]. It also has a SEE ALSO for modinfo(8. '/sbin/modinfo loop' gives you the module parameters. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014125942.103983145...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Anyone using exim with fastmail.fm's smtp server as smart host?
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 06:22:49PM -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > I'm trying to setup exim4 in a situation that has got to be pretty > common. (Other than perhaps the choice of smtp server) > > In general it is: > > single user home machine running debian > > send mail to remote addresses by `smart host' > > Retrieve mail by fetchmail, or in some accounts just > use Imap and don't fetch the messages. > > But in all cases I must use a smarthost. In this case it is the smtp > server `mail.messagingengine.com'. I have successfully setup > sendmail on a debian machine in the past with this same smart host. > It necessitated using an `authinfo' file with a certain syntax. > > So my SmartHost is an authenticating Smart host... it also seemed > to require me to masquerade as another mail provider. > > I used `newsguy.com' since I have accounts with them. Mail was made > to appear as if it had originated at newsguy.com > > Some of those same things, no doubt, will be required, and I've tried > several different configs. > > What I hoped is that someone here would be in a similar situation and > might be able to offer some input to get this going. > > Call me lazy, but I really really do NOT want to pound thru piles and > piles of exim documentation... . I'm willing to do some reading > but not interested in becoming an exim adept... I doubt I would make > the cut... with 10-15 yrs training. According to https://www.fastmail.fm/help/technical/servernamesandports.html what you require is mail.messagingengine.com port 465 (old-style SSL) or port 587 (with STARTTLS). You shouldn't need to pretend to be anyone else to send your email. For exim, http://www.manu-j.com/blog/wordpress-exim4-ubuntu-gmail-smtp/75/ suggests to set the smarthost to "mail.messagingengine.com::587" (when using debconf) and to add a new routing driver. Probably easiest to just read that page for the information you require, replacing smtp.gmail.com with mail.messagingengine.com as appropriate. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 5/20/14, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: >> On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:40:56 +1000 >> Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> On 5/17/14, Slavko wrote: >> ... >>> > Don't forget, that justice is not when all criminals are imprisoned >>> > and/or punished, but when no one blameless is persecuted. >>> >>> Very eloquent and beautiful words. >>> Thank you Slavko. >> >> But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists >> here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as >> it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will >> ever be "persecuted": >> http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm > > I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the way I > read it is as: > "we must make our best efforts to not persecute blameless people" and > "if blameless people are being persecuted, we must make more efforts > [eg with our criminal justice system - to fix this problem]". > > So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this system > to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who should not be > punished. > > Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. To me this is similar to "our government has a duty of care to us, its people, and at the moment seems to be failing rather dismally in various ways" and but with the flip side of "we the people have a duty of care to clean/fix our government/institutions". It is so easy to point the finger and say "there's a problem", and my answer is "so what are you going to do to help work towards a solution". Regards Zenaan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOsGNSRFWr=p-rog1wlecca5+ouwbpbcgtkmncnsjyey3rk...@mail.gmail.com
Immediate problem resolved -- Re: Max number of loop devices OR "efficient search of Debian documentation"
Tom H wrote: On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: My general question is "How to search for a particular particle of information that you've seen SOMEWHERE in the reams of information available as formal documentation, web pages, mailing lists, etc." My current instance is attempting to modify the max number of loop devices. One pellet of Google buckshot reminded me that it can be reset for the next re-boot under /etc/modprobe.d . But I want to reset it on the fly. Other pellets hit postings: that were over ten years old where post did not seem to agree with relevant man page post's author commented that he though solution might be of form ... If you have loop compiled in to the kernel, as I do below, you can only change the number of loop devices at boot by using "max_loop= My config file did include "CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=m" and the two lines acted as desired. Thank you. However no one addressed the more general question posed in my first paragraph. I read the man pages for all the commands others referenced but didn't come with any extrapolation to improve my skills at retrieving information on my own. Any suggestions? TIA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b41a2.7030...@cloud85.net
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On 5/20/14, Celejar wrote: > On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:40:56 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> On 5/17/14, Slavko wrote: > ... >> > Don't forget, that justice is not when all criminals are imprisoned >> > and/or punished, but when no one blameless is persecuted. >> >> Very eloquent and beautiful words. >> Thank you Slavko. > > But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists > here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as > it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will > ever be "persecuted": > http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm I don't remember reading the words Slavko posted before, but the way I read it is as: "we must make our best efforts to not persecute blameless people" and "if blameless people are being persecuted, we must make more efforts [eg with our criminal justice system - to fix this problem]". So not abolish criminal justice, but make more efforts in this system to reduce/minimize persecution/punishment of people who should not be punished. Of course perfection cannot be achieved in reality, I agree. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsszza7mqcgx0tzenno-ct1+jbglrmfvuqs451-tmtj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Anyone using exim with fastmail.fm's smtp server as smart host?
On 19/05/14 23:22, Harry Putnam wrote: > I'm trying to setup exim4 in a situation that has got to be pretty > common. (Other than perhaps the choice of smtp server) > > In general it is: > > single user home machine running debian > > send mail to remote addresses by `smart host' > > Retrieve mail by fetchmail, or in some accounts just > use Imap and don't fetch the messages. > > But in all cases I must use a smarthost. In this case it is the smtp > server `mail.messagingengine.com'. I have successfully setup > sendmail on a debian machine in the past with this same smart host. > It necessitated using an `authinfo' file with a certain syntax. > > So my SmartHost is an authenticating Smart host... it also seemed > to require me to masquerade as another mail provider. > > I used `newsguy.com' since I have accounts with them. Mail was made > to appear as if it had originated at newsguy.com > > Some of those same things, no doubt, will be required, and I've tried > several different configs. > > What I hoped is that someone here would be in a similar situation and > might be able to offer some input to get this going. > > Call me lazy, but I really really do NOT want to pound thru piles and > piles of exim documentation... . I'm willing to do some reading > but not interested in becoming an exim adept... I doubt I would make > the cut... with 10-15 yrs training. > > > > > The server (mail.messagingengine.com) doesn't respond to ping nor to an attempt at connecting through port 25 right now (20/5/2014, 13:30 GMT) $ swaks -s mail.messagingengine.com -q FIRST-HELO === Trying mail.messagingengine.com:25... ^C (manually aborted after a minute or so) $ ping mail.messagingengine.com PING mail.messagingengine.com (66.111.4.51) 56(84) bytes of data. ^C --- mail.messagingengine.com ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4030ms -- Klaus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b3f03.5020...@gmail.com
Re: FSF condemns partnership between Mozilla and Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management
On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:40:56 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 5/17/14, Slavko wrote: ... > > Don't forget, that justice is not when all criminals are imprisoned > > and/or punished, but when no one blameless is persecuted. > > Very eloquent and beautiful words. > > Thank you Slavko. But this is precisely the problem with some of the dogmatic idealists here - by this logic, we should abolish criminal justice entirely, as it's virtually impossible to guarantee that "no one blameless" will ever be "persecuted": http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520070803.8e656179a45745ad4925a...@gmail.com
Re: 2 xservers/display managers
On 20/05/14 10:05, Javier Barroso wrote: > Hello, > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Richard Hector wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 20/05/14 04:13, Ralph Katz wrote: >>> On 05/19/2014 08:20 AM, Richard Hector wrote: Hey all, >>> I'm wondering if it would help me to have 2 potentially simultaneous logins on my computer, one for private use and one for work (I'm working from home). That would give me 2 home directories, 2 icedove profiles etc etc. >>> To that end, does anyone know if it's possible to have 2 instances of gdm (or whatever display manager) start at boot, so I can log in to them independently? Actually, I can't think of any reason it wouldn't be possible, so does anyone have any tips on how? >>> >>> Hi -- I can confirm this works on stable with xfce and lightdm to >>> do exactly that: >>> >>> ~$ sudo adduser richard-work >>> >>> Then ctrl-alt-F1 [F2, etc]; login as richard-work; Then ~$ >>> DISPLAY=:1 startx -- :1# launches your 2nd display manager >>> session >>> >>> Switch between X sessions with ctrl-alt-F7 / F8 keys (for me). >> >> startx does indeed do it, thanks - though I don't need to specify the >> DISPLAY variable; it just works if I run startx as my other user. >> >> So that proves that it is possible to get 2 X servers running. >> >> Next step, ideally, is to also have 2 display managers running - >> ideally gdm3, since that's what I've been using, but anything will do. >> Preference for something that will let me choose my DE without mucking >> around with a .xsession file. >> >> Any suggestions? > > Login into your session. Run gdmflexibleserver, and then search at > other virtual terminals (control-alt-Fx) to find your new gdm3 > instance. Interesting - gdmflexiserver (which I assume is what you meant) does odd things - it pops up a new thing that looks like gdm, which requires me to type my password to get back to where I was ... except that I don't need to at all; I just hit ctrl-alt-f and there I am. Anyway, it seems I need to be logged in already to use that; I'd rather have something that offers me multiple servers, perhaps by running multiple gdms, before I've logged in. > I'm not sure how it works (one user launching an greeter, which is > running as root) > > Alternatively you can choose "change user from gnome menu" and you > will be in the same circunstances Right, I think I've seen that working from gnome, which is fine if all my sessions will always run gnome. I'm currently running XFCE, however, and don't have that option on my logout/restart dialog. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/537b3676.5010...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue 20 May 2014 at 09:24:02 +0200, Erwan David wrote: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: > > > > You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it > > with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. > > > > The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list > > of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to > > shrink. > > Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives, > if less than a year after the alternatives are killed. Perhaps the contents of this mail will engender a more positive appreciation of the task ahead and maybe some optimism too: https://lists.debian.org/87siodzo56@windlord.stanford.edu Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an opportunity to not change init systems. It remains to be seen if we will ship some software with jessie that requires systemd be running as the init system, or if people will have the time and resources to provide the necessary interfaces with sysvinit or other init systems. I certainly hope the latter is the case, and Steve felt quite confident it would be, but the work hasn't happened yet, so we can't be sure we won't end up in that situation. If that's the case, then some software may not work if you choose not to run systemd. But we should still prompt and not change without the user's permission. "Steve" is Steve Langasek, the maintainer of systemd-shim. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520100743.gg17...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:16:12AM CEST, Andrei POPESCU said: > On Lu, 19 mai 14, 09:46:19, Erwan David wrote: > > > > > You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have > > choice" were actually false... > > You have the choice to contribute in making Debian work with > alternatives. How will debian/kfreebsd do ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520100749.gg5...@rail.eu.org
Re: set higher verbosity in exim4 output
On Mon 19 May 2014 at 17:40:46 -0400, Harry Putnam wrote: > Do you mean something more than: > /usr/sbin/exim4 -v $recipient > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . which is the > > address to which the test message is sent, e.g. > > So are you talking about something more than above or what? I do not think so. The nugget you want is at the beginning of exim(8). /usr/sbin/exim4 -v $recipient or /usr/sbin/exim4 -d $recipient message.file is unnecessary. The mail will be accepted or rejected well before this file is read. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20052014102850.bb59f3b20...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Debian 5
On Ma, 20 mai 14, 10:35:34, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Lu, 19 mai 14, 15:40:05, Jim Harris wrote: > > We checked the archives, however they seem to be closed at this time. > > Check http://achive.debian.org ^^^ Sorry, that is a*r*chive, of course. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:14:17PM CEST, Tom H said: > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Erwan David wrote: > > Le 19/05/2014 00:21, Tom H a écrit : > >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM, David Dušanić > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Systemd-shim is there to provide functions by systemd on a system that > >>> does > >>> not use it as its init system. It could be useful when you depend on > >>> Gnome 3 > >>> software like network-manager but do not want to use systemd. > >> > >> AFAIUI: > >> > >> It's not clear that systemd-shim is going to be updated to deal with > >> systemd 208 (it works with systemd 204) because of changes in the > >> kernel's cgroup implementation because Ubuntu's switching to systemd > >> so it doesn't need to do so. > >> > >> So unless someone packages Ubuntu's cgmanager and patches logind 208 > >> to use it (and perhaps does even more than that), it's unlikely that > >> systemd-shim will be useful in jessie as a systemd > >> mini-/micro-substitute. > > > > You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have > > choice" were actually false... > > You'll have the choice to use sysvinit without logind or to use it > with logind if systemd-shim & co are updated. > > The list of packages depending on logind is likely to grow so the list > of packages that you can install without an alternative is likely to > shrink. Just what I said : it was a lie to speak of default with alternatives, if less than a year after the alternatives are killed. And looking at all the blocking bugs on systemd, I'm afraid. Such major change should be done gradually with well tested software, not software that beaks existing configurations. I wionder why so much haste ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520072402.gd5...@rail.eu.org
Re: Vertualbox installation errors
On Sb, 17 mai 14, 14:24:59, Gary Roach wrote: > > PS - I hope that some of the "snarky" seeming replies were due to non > native english speaking instead of malevolent intent. If not keep a lid on > the temper folks. I must have lost my patience after repeating the same thing over and over again. I did not mean to insult or offend anyone and I apologize if I did so. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian 5
On Lu, 19 mai 14, 15:40:05, Jim Harris wrote: > We checked the archives, however they seem to be closed at this time. Check http://achive.debian.org Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Lu, 19 mai 14, 09:46:19, Erwan David wrote: > > > You mean all messages saying "it is just the default, you will have > choice" were actually false... You have the choice to contribute in making Debian work with alternatives. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 09:01:35AM CEST, David Dušanić said: > 19.05.2014, 10:30, "Erwan David" : > > And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ? > > Excepting that some people pretend that their personal choice is the > only way to run a ciomputer and tend to enforce it to other. > > Linux is becoming just another windows. It is no more a Unix. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5379c135.7060...@rail.eu.org > > > I do not use hplip, so I have no idea about that dependency, I guess it is > policykit again. But even if you install systemd, that does not mean it will > change your init system if you do not decide explicitly to do so. Until a coming version which will droop the possibility. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140520071316.gb5...@rail.eu.org
Re: Unable to install Debian 7.5.0
On Lu, 19 mai 14, 13:09:03, Saptarshi Kapas wrote: > Hi, > > I downloaded debian-7.5.0 from this following location > http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.5.0/i386/iso-dvd/ . After download i > burn this iso in dvd. After that when i am trying to install this to my > local machine, machine is unable to load this iso from dvd. Please try to explain in detail how far you get when you try to boot the DVD and what exact error message you see. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: systemd situation in Jesssie
19.05.2014, 10:30, "Erwan David" :And can you explain why hplip depends on systemd ?Excepting that some people pretend that their personal choice is theonly way to run a ciomputer and tend to enforce it to other.Linux is becoming just another windows. It is no more a Unix.-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.orgArchive: https://lists.debian.org/5379c135.7060...@rail.eu.orgI do not use hplip, so I have no idea about that dependency, I guess it is policykit again. But even if you install systemd, that does not mean it will change your init system if you do not decide explicitly to do so. -- David Dusanic
Re: Where to get older versions of pkgs
On Du, 18 mai 14, 18:33:48, José Antonio Podadera Moya wrote: > > Anyway, you can download the packages from snapshot and downgrade them, > without adding a new source to APT. Install with DPKG and be sure you put > them > on hold so they will never be upgraded again. I'm not sure this is such a good idea, considering this is about an MTA... Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
