Re: PDF Editor for Debian

[Klaus Singvogel]

Arbol One wrote:
> Is there a PDF editor that would work with Debian 12?

It's depending on what you understand under "edit", and whether you expect to 
use Free Open Source Software (FOSS) or not.

If you just want to fill out forms (JavaScript), then I'd recommend the FOSS 
programs: chromium browser (not: Google chrome browser), or evince.

If you want to edit the PDF itself, like moving lines, edit texts or 
rearranging elements (like pictures), you can either use LibreOffice (but for 
me it wasn't quiet usable), or buy a license for a commercial program.

For commercial programs, I'd made good experience with Master PDF Editor. But 
I'd also give Qoppa a try, because a lot of people say that Qoppa is the better 
choice.
My experience for Master PDF Editor is: I'd running it since 2019 with the same 
bought license. But my Debian changed from Jessie, over Stretch and Buster to 
Bullseye (now), and it's still running. I'd to admit that I needed to reinstall 
the DEB package every then and a while (not after a Debian Upgrade), due to 
issues with Qt5. So it was a good idea to download the DEB package after I 
bought it, and keep the packages till today. So far I can say, all required 
depencies are included in the downloaded DEB package.

Best regards,
Klaus.
-- 
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D  1994-06-27

Re: About dash as sh

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 2:16 AM Nicolas George  wrote:
>
> Stefan Monnier (12024-06-21):
> > And if it's not a tty, you get some kind of Undefined Behavior?
>
> Knowing that “undefined behavior” is just an expression invented by C
> standards authors to make “we make no guarantee about it, use it at your
> own risk” sound more scary, I do not think it is a severe problem.

Do shells suffer UB? I always thought that was a C thing.

When I encounter UB in C, I drop into inline assembler since asm does
not suffer C's undefined behavior.

Jeff

Re: About dash as sh

[Nicolas George]

Stefan Monnier (12024-06-21):
> And if it's not a tty, you get some kind of Undefined Behavior?

Knowing that “undefined behavior” is just an expression invented by C
standards authors to make “we make no guarantee about it, use it at your
own risk” sound more scary, I do not think it is a severe problem.

> I don't think I'd like that because I don't think the benefit would be worth
> the UB troubles.

The reasoning is the other way around: this feature should not be used,
and therefore the trouble of standardizing it is a waste of time.

The reason this feature should not be used is that it is exceptional. It
does not work with scripting languages that read their whole script
before running. It does not work with chained commands: “(head -n 2 >
/tmp/1 ; head -n 4 > /tmp/2)” will not put the next four lines in the
/tmp/2 file. None of the standard shell utilities makes any effort to
control buffering, and doing so would either change their semantics or
ruin their performances. Only the shell itself has this constraint.

So in order to use this guarantee properly, you need to be absolutely
sure you are in the exact case it covers. And odds are you will realize
it does not work because you added something in between that does
buffering.

Better just design your script in a way that does not rely on buffering
subtleties.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: PDF Editor for Debian

[Richard]

Hello,
this very much depends on what you are expecting it to do. In general, PDFs
are only meant to be viewed - and printed - they where never meant for
anything else. Even filling out forms is just s bad hackjob through
JavaScript. That being said, there is software with PDF editing
capabilities on Linux, though it's much more basic than what you'll find on
Windows.

If you want to just make comments, Okular has some neat capabilities,
including signing PDFs. For handwritten notes on a PDF, Xournal++ is a
great tool. If you want to just want to reorder pages, rotate, delete or
add them, there are some tools like PDFSam. There's also the quite powerful
Ghostscript, though that's CLI only. At least I don't know of any GUI. For
more "editing" features, LibreOffice can import PDFs, but in my experience
it struggles quite a lot with layout. OnlyOffice also has that capability,
but I never used it. Also, Inkscape can do that. It can also import
multiple pages at once, but I recommend only importing single pages,
otherwise Inkscape quickly reaches its limits. It has two import modes, an
internal one and poppler. Use the internal one and see if that works for
you. It's easier to edit text boxes in there, but it's quite likely it
won't be able to use the right font, which will break the whole look. The
poppler import can preserve that, but that's because letters aren't
imported as letters but as paths. So you can't just edit text, you'd have
to delete letters and try to insert text in a way that looks decent.

Other than that, there are a few commercial tools, but they are not that
well known. So your best bet is just to try to never have to edit a PDF at
all. Always try to get a hand on the original file the PDF was delivered
from. Even if it's a docx - Microsofts infamous wannabe-open source format
that just nobody can handle properly, including their own software - it
will most likely be better handled by the software you use than a PDF made
editable.

Best
Richard

On Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 07:13 Arbol One  wrote:

> Hello.
> Is there a PDF editor that would work with Debian 12?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> *ArbolOne.ca* Using Fire Fox and Thunderbird. ArbolOne is composed of
> students and volunteers dedicated to providing free services to charitable
> organizations. ArbolOne on Java Development is in progress [ í ]
>

Re: OT - list mail claimed to be "known" spam!

[Felix Miata]

CHRIS M composed on 2024-06-23 21:36 (UTC-0500):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> Stefan's isn't the only, but few others from any source become repeats, one
>> of which is every notification of new post added to subscribed thread on
>> forums.opensuse.org.

>> Trying to get EL to stop putting subscribed email into "known spam" is
>> futile. The mechanism EL provides to avoid such diversions doesn't work
>> with debian mailing list posts.

>> :~(

> Sounds like its time to turn off Earthlink's Spam filtering

I would LOVE to, but cannot find a way to do so. The only option offered is to
make it more intrusive. It used to not be a problem, before DMARC, before the
Earthlink/Yahoo war to see who could blackhole more non-spam from each other.

John Hasler composed on 2024-06-23 21:41 (UTC-0500):

> Quit using EL email.  Use Pobox.  Yes, it costs money.  It's worth it.

I've been with EL 18 years, SeaMonkey longer (originally as Mozilla Suite, 
before
Firefox existed). EL is not free, but it doesn't shove IMAP at me. I like my 
email
addresses. My people have known them long, understand the word, and don't ask 
how
to spell it.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: OT - list mail claimed to be "known" spam!

[John Hasler]

Felix Miata wrote:
> Trying to get EL to stop putting subscribed email into "known spam" is
> futile. The mechanism EL provides to avoid such diversions doesn't work
> with debian mailing list posts.

Quit using EL email.  Use Pobox.  Yes, it costs money.  It's worth it.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: OT - list mail claimed to be "known" spam! (was: mounting external hard drive...)

[CHRIS M]

On Sunday 23 June 2024 03:54:36 pm Felix Miata wrote:
>
> Stefan's isn't the only, but few others from any source become repeats, one
> of which is every notification of new post added to subscribed thread on
> forums.opensuse.org.
>
> Trying to get EL to stop putting subscribed email into "known spam" is
> futile. The mechanism EL provides to avoid such diversions doesn't work
> with debian mailing list posts.
>
> :~(

Sounds like its time to turn off Earthlink's Spam filtering and teach 
SeaMonkey Mail, what *IS* spam and what is *NOT* and is HAM / good mail. 

I've got the time / and somewhat patience to sit down at each mail check with 
TDE KMAIL and teach TDE KMAIL what is GOOD / HAM emails, and what is NOT and 
is SPAM. #YMMV.
-- 

THANKS IN ADVANCE!
 
CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

~* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~*
*~~1 TB SSD*~~
~*15.5 GiB of ram*~
~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

~FYI, TDE is a continuation of KDE 3.x ~
~ Q4OS is based off of the latest Debian Version~

PDF Editor for Debian

[Arbol One]

Hello.
Is there a PDF editor that would work with Debian 12?

Thanks.

--
*/ArbolOne.ca/* Using Fire Fox and Thunderbird. ArbolOne is composed of 
students and volunteers dedicated to providing free services to 
charitable organizations. ArbolOne on Java Development is in progress [ í ]

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[David Wright]

On Sun 23 Jun 2024 at 08:41:51 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 23:25:43 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press
> > story at the start of the new millennium.
> > 
> > $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
> > Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024
> > Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024
> > $ 
> 
> Typo there; you misspelled "Kiritimati" in the command.
> 
> hobbit:~$ TZ=Pacific/Kiritimati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
> Mon Jun 24 02:39:17 +14 2024
> Sun Jun 23 21:24:17 +0845 2024

Yes, I corrected it, but then carelessly pasted the incorrect lines.

> The fact that date(1) treats any misspelled or otherwise incorrect TZ
> variable as if it were UTC, but then goes on to write the mispelled
> time zone name in its *output*, as if it were actually being recognized,
> has tripped me up in the past.  I really wish it would just throw an
> error... but it doesn't.

Yes, In the meantime, a function something like this might help:

  $ type whattime 
  whattime is a function
  whattime () 
  { 
  [ -z "$1" ] && msgerr "Usage:   ${FUNCNAME[0]} place
  prints the present time at place (a filename in the zoneinfo lists).
  For today's expiration (AoE), use the legacy name, GMT+12." && return 
1;
  local Where;
  find /usr/share/zoneinfo/ \( -type f -o -type l \) | sed -E 
's/^[^A-Z]+//;s/GMT\+12/AoE/' | grep -v [0-9] | sed -E 's/AoE/GMT\+12/' | sort 
-u | grep -i -e "^$1$" -e "/$1$" | while read Where; do
  printf '%s ' "$Where";
  TZ="$Where" date '+%Y-%m-%d %T %z %A';
  done
  }
  $ for j in kiritimati eucla comodrivadavia samoa gmt+12 factory; do whattime 
"$j"; done
  Pacific/Kiritimati 2024-06-24 13:54:22 +1400 Monday
  Australia/Eucla 2024-06-24 08:39:22 +0845 Monday
  America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia 2024-06-23 20:54:22 -0300 Sunday
  Pacific/Samoa 2024-06-23 12:54:22 -1100 Sunday
  US/Samoa 2024-06-23 12:54:22 -1100 Sunday
  Etc/GMT+12 2024-06-23 11:54:22 -1200 Sunday
  Factory 2024-06-23 23:54:22 - Sunday
  $ 

Cheers,
David.

Re: OT - list mail claimed to be "known" spam!

[Stefan Monnier]

[ Sent directly to debian-user@lists.  ]

> FWIW, this reply goes to list because I expect high probability Stefan would 
> not
> see it otherwise. Most mailing list posts flow through to me unimpeded. Not so
> with Stefan's. AFAICT, every one of his is captured by Earthlink.net's "known
> spam" folder. The only ways I can see them are via the web archive, and by 
> opening
> webmail, so that I can extract them from "known spam".

My crystal ball suggests it's because I [read and] send them via Gmane,
and of course Gmane can't DKIM-sign my messages (and neither can my NNTP
client).


Stefan

Re: OT - list mail claimed to be "known" spam! (was: mounting external hard drive...)

[Felix Miata]

Stefan Monnier composed on 2024-06-23 12:35 (UTC-0400):
...
FWIW, this reply goes to list because I expect high probability Stefan would not
see it otherwise. Most mailing list posts flow through to me unimpeded. Not so
with Stefan's. AFAICT, every one of his is captured by Earthlink.net's "known
spam" folder. The only ways I can see them are via the web archive, and by 
opening
webmail, so that I can extract them from "known spam".

Stefan's isn't the only, but few others from any source become repeats, one of
which is every notification of new post added to subscribed thread on
forums.opensuse.org.

Trying to get EL to stop putting subscribed email into "known spam" is futile. 
The
mechanism EL provides to avoid such diversions doesn't work with debian mailing
list posts.

:~(
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[John Hasler]

 Brad Rogers writes:
> Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any
> deliberate choice.  That is, spelling was often a 'best guess'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Dictionary#Noah_Webster's_American_Dictionary_of_the_English_Language
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: mounting external hard drive from rescue mode shell?

[tomas]

On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 12:35:19PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:

> Indeed my trusty old Thinkpad X30 [...]

> - Take the HDD out of the X30 [...]

Ah, the old Thinkpads. Swapping out the HD always just one screw away.

I'll miss my old X230 (one of the last capable of this trick) which is
in process of being replaced with a sleek and snobby X260. OTOH, the old
one is promised to a nice person who's in need of one.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

Re: mounting external hard drive from rescue mode shell?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Relevant laptop is so old I don't know if it can boot from a physical USB
> device. I was suspecting that simplest thing would be copying suitable image
> to hard drive and let GRUB earn its keep ;}

Indeed my trusty old Thinkpad X30 doesn't boot from USB keys (tho in
theory it can boot from a USB floppy reader), so I use one of two
alternative options:

- Boot using the Grub on the X30's own HDD, and then ask Grub to boot
  the kernel+initrd found on the USB key (this is my favorite solution).

- Copy the USB key's kernel+initrd to the /boot partition on the X30's
  HDD and boot from that.

- Take the HDD out of the X30 and connect it to my desktop via some
  HDD<->USB adapter.  Then do what I need to do to it from the comfort
  of my desktop computer, typically using `chroot` along the way (this
  is the second best).


Stefan

Re: htmldoc default font size

[eben]

On 6/23/24 10:32, Roger Price wrote:

I'm using htmldoc 1.9.11-4+deb11u3 to convert html files to pdf.  When
playing with the fontsize option I discover that the default is not a whole
number, more like 11.2 points.


Hmm, maybe the author used something in mm?  Weird.  4mm is 11.33 points.

--
An ASCII character walks into a bar and orders a double. "Having a bad
day?" asks the barman. "Yeah, I have a parity error," replies the ASCII
chrcter. The barman says, "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off." - Skud

Re: htmldoc default font size

[Dan Ritter]

Roger Price wrote: 
> I'm using htmldoc 1.9.11-4+deb11u3 to convert html files to pdf.  When
> playing with the fontsize option I discover that the default is not a whole
> number, more like 11.2 points.  Is this the expected behaviour ?
> 
> Background: The manual at https://www.msweet.org/htmldoc/htmldoc.html#3_2_23
> says “The --fontsize option specifies the base font size for the entire
> document in points (1 point = 1/72nd inch)”, but doesn't say what the
> default value is if the option is omitted.
> 
> What is the default font size?

Use this as a test file:

testfile
here is the base text

run it through htmldoc without using a --fontsize option, open
the resulting pdf and measure?

htmldoc is very badly outdated; if you want proper control, you
want to use pandoc (yes, Debian packages it) and a CSS file.

-dsr-

htmldoc default font size

[Roger Price]

I'm using htmldoc 1.9.11-4+deb11u3 to convert html files to pdf.  When playing 
with the fontsize option I discover that the default is not a whole number, more 
like 11.2 points.  Is this the expected behaviour ?


Background: The manual at https://www.msweet.org/htmldoc/htmldoc.html#3_2_23 
says “The --fontsize option specifies the base font size for the entire document 
in points (1 point = 1/72nd inch)”, but doesn't say what the default value is if 
the option is omitted.


What is the default font size?

Roger

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[Curt]

On 2024-06-23, Nicholas Geovanis  wrote:
>
> I think we are losing sight of the fact that all of timekeeping is an
> abstraction and over-generalization. Time zones were created to help
> regularize railroad schedules over wide areas. Timezones are an abstraction
> that permit us to _pretend_ that it is (physical) noon at the same clock
> time over an extended area. When in fact physical high-noon, determined by
> the sun's position in the sky, cannot be at the exact same time just a few
> centimeters west or east of my eyeballs.
>

Autrement dit, chacun voit midi à sa porte.
-- 

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[gene heskett]

On 6/23/24 09:23, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote:

A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see 
transmitter
logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 
2002,
I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 
12 hour

periods a day.


I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.

Digital watches were much later, not arriving till the later 70's, and 
may have bothered my wives. but not enough to start a discussion over. 
One could say tongue in cheek, that I've had the ultimate revenge, 
outliving 3 of them now. Position open, must be able hold my coffee 
while watching something I'm doing.

--
"Hear Me, for I am The Lord. I have seen your browser history, and am
wroth before it. Thus I shall strike down from the heavens a mighty blast,
and lo, [thou] shalt no longer have access to the naughty pictures."
sudo sudo The Book of Support, Chap 404 -- Osiris32 on TFTS

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[eben]

On 6/23/24 02:30, gene heskett wrote:


A attribute the FCC forced on broadcasters as they like to see transmitter
logs kept in 24 hour time. I got so used to it that when I retired in 2002,
I'd been on 24 hour time for 40 years and didn't convert back to two 12 hour
periods a day.


I started using 24 hour time in junior high school with digital watches.  I
just thought it made more sense, especially for setting alarms.  Several
decades later I've not seen any reason to change, though it annoys my wife.

--
"Hear Me, for I am The Lord. I have seen your browser history, and am
wroth before it. Thus I shall strike down from the heavens a mighty blast,
and lo, [thou] shalt no longer have access to the naughty pictures."
sudo sudo The Book of Support, Chap 404 -- Osiris32 on TFTS

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 23:25:43 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> creation of Pacific/Kiritimati (+14:00), which became a press
> story at the start of the new millennium.
> 
> $ TZ=Pacific/Kiritamati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
> Sun Jun 23 04:24:54 Pacific 2024
> Sun Jun 23 13:09:54 +0845 2024
> $ 

Typo there; you misspelled "Kiritimati" in the command.

hobbit:~$ TZ=Pacific/Kiritimati date; TZ=Australia/Eucla date
Mon Jun 24 02:39:17 +14 2024
Sun Jun 23 21:24:17 +0845 2024

The fact that date(1) treats any misspelled or otherwise incorrect TZ
variable as if it were UTC, but then goes on to write the mispelled
time zone name in its *output*, as if it were actually being recognized,
has tripped me up in the past.  I really wish it would just throw an
error... but it doesn't.

Re: mounting external hard drive from rescue mode shell?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 10:38:29PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:37:29PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Will I outlive Debian 11/12?
> 
> Well we're only talking a small single digit number of years here,
> so I hope you have reason to be optimistic.
> 

A colleague who is 14 years older than me was discussing this.
Apparently your odds of surviving another year are > 50% until the
age of 94 or so whereupon they start to go down fairly drastically :)

All best

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
> -- 
> https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
> 

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:35:14 +1000
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

Hello Keith,

>+14:00??   I've only ever heard of maxima of +/- 12:00.

AFAIAC, it was political willy waving, nothing more;  To be 'first' into
the new millennium.

As if that has any cachet whatsoever.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Bet you thought you had it all worked out
Problem - Sex Pistols


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Re: MoinMoin wikis and Debian 11+

[Richard Hector]

On 20/06/24 23:21, Greg Wooledge wrote:

As we're nearing the end of life for Debian 10, I'm still wondering
what MoinMoin wiki users are supposed to do.  (This includes
 as near as I can see from SystemInfo.)

MoinMoin 1.x requires Python2, and Debian 11 and newer don't have
Python2 any more.  They only have Python3.


Interesting. Python Wiki uses MoinMoin too - presumably on an 
unsupported python ... one might have thought that the python community 
would have sufficiently motivated python devs to get moin2 sorted. I 
wonder what their plans are?


Richard (who endlessly postpones choosing a wiki due to this and similar 
issues)

Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:01:10 +1000
Keith Bainbridge  wrote:

Hello Keith,

>Not to mention some cultures change how words are spelt: colour, odour, 
>metres to quote a few.

Due, mainly, to the literacy of the people that moved, rather than any
deliberate choice.  That is, spelling was often a 'best guess'.

Oh, and in the UK, we used to spell it labor, too.  It changed over the
years to conform with colour, etc.  Not sure why, but possibly to do
with the Victorians insisting that language should conform to
(largely mathematical) rules.  However, as a keen family historian, with
many certificates with people's occupation on, one can witness the
changes in spelling over a decade or so, on that paperwork.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
There's no point in asking you'll get no reply
Pretty Vacant - Sex Pistols


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