Re: PPP tutorial (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
> The base install seems to be more targeted to people with: A) a live > internet connection, B) Debian on CD, or C) The Debian distribution on > another filesystem or NFS. However, like I mentioned, of the people I > deal with each day, about 5% of the Debian newbies fall into that group. I'd say that installing from CD would cover 95% of new installations. (Is it even possible to install Debian from floppy?)
Re: PPP tutorial (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
Martin Brundage wrote: On Tue, 4 Mar 97 10:27:23 PST, you wrote: >Now, as things seem to stand now, the ppp part seems like almost an after- >thought (as far as its importance to the effective operation of dselect >goes). The base install seems to be more targeted to people with: A) a >live internet connection, B) Debian on CD, or C) The Debian distribution >on another filesystem or NFS. However, like I mentioned, of the people I >deal with each day, about 5% of the Debian newbies fall into that group. >It seems appropriate to mention Occam's Razor at this point, y'know? > >- Joe > Joe, I agree the installation and setup needs more polish in this and other areas. In the meantime, however, you might want to check out a the tutorial on PPP setup in the latest Linux Journal (April issue). Marty I initially(last summer) had to use a w95 machine to ftp in the install disks and later the .deb files to get things going. It was tedious. After figuring out what I needed(dependencies) and downloading it, I pulled the drive, changed jumpers, and put it in the Debian box as a second drive. I think that dialup should be included in the base. However, I did run into problems when everything needed was not downloaded. I had a few things broken at times. Once I built a "mirror", I reinstalled to a clean drive. It was all very educational. Paul Wade, CEO Greenbush Technologies Corporation Web: http://www.greenbush.com/ Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Fresh Linux CD's mailed monthly No refrigeration needed Under 1 billion sold! *
PPP tutorial (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
On Tue, 4 Mar 97 10:27:23 PST, you wrote: >Now, as things seem to stand now, the ppp part seems like almost an after- >thought (as far as its importance to the effective operation of dselect >goes). The base install seems to be more targeted to people with: A) a >live internet connection, B) Debian on CD, or C) The Debian distribution >on another filesystem or NFS. However, like I mentioned, of the people I >deal with each day, about 5% of the Debian newbies fall into that group. >It seems appropriate to mention Occam's Razor at this point, y'know? > >- Joe > Joe, I agree the installation and setup needs more polish in this and other areas. In the meantime, however, you might want to check out a the tutorial on PPP setup in the latest Linux Journal (April issue). Marty
Re: pppd keep-alive cron script (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
Nils Rennebarth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Why don't you let init do this job? Or see the pppd "persist" option in the pppd man page. The lcp options Nils mentioned are probably a good idea too. -- Rob
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Shawn Asmussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > H... Well, that's news to me. I wasn't aware that pppd would > redial. FWIW see the persist option in the pppd man page. That will make it redial on failure. -- Rob
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
CoB SysAdmin typed: > Yes, I've read the Serial HOWTO. I've read the PPP HOWTO. I've even read the > PPP RFC. I know what IPCP does and I know what LCP does. > > But I shouldn't have to. > > I didn't have to read the LILO HOWTO to get my machine to boot Linux. I > didn't have to read anything about the timezone system to get the timezone > set right. I didn't have to read about "mount(1)", or "mke2fs(1)", or > "mknod(1)", or anything else like that. Oddly, the Debian install program > handled it all for me, as it should. But it's lack of any setup for PPP... > it's lack of even *mentioning* that PPP is on the system already... seems > to indicate that there was almost a conscious decision to throw the user > to the lions on this part. I think this is the core of the matter. We have some people saying "I can't get PPP going", we have others saying "It's easy, RTFM". I feel there is a problem with this attitude. For a user to use Debian, they have to get something extra out of it than they would if they just grabbed the tar.gz files and read the doco's. And by far the most important thing to get right and make easy for a user is the initial setup, because if I've trashed my hard drives to put Debian on, its not such a big step to trash them again if I switch to say, RedHat. It is a big hassle a few months later. Telling the user "we have PPP, off you go" is not enough, we really should be trying to do more to help them. I don't think the variations in ppp servers (or ISPs) are insurmountable; perhaps someone should look and see how some ms-windows programs get around this problem. It would be great if with 5 disks and a phone modem I could big a system from scratch. I've done it with Ethernet connected systems before (except for yesterday, you've got some nasty bugs out there fellars) and it's pretty impressive to do. - Craig vk2xlz -- // /\ | | | Craig Small VK2XLZ @home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||==||===|==|=| [44.136.13.17] @play: [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\ \/ | | | finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP key!
Re: pppd keep-alive cron script (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Steve wrote: >> On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Jason Costomiris wrote: >> I run myown scripts for ppp not the pon. be that as it may.. all thats >> needed here is to make a script that greps for ppp / pon .. whatever. set >> this on a cron and bang! if the connection drops, your check script, run >> at intervals set via cron, sees it down and restarts it. > >This is what I use to keep my PPP link up. I have it in my >/etc/cron.minutely directory (same idea as the other cron.*ly dirs). > >It uses two seperate tests to see if pppd is running. I've found that >under some conditions, one test or the other can fail, but the two >tests together seems to work very well. Why don't you let init do this job? Starting pppd form inittab with a line like: S1:23:respawn:/usr/sbin/pppd -detach ttyS1 will start a new connection as soon as the old one dies. If you add lcp-echo-interval 10 lcp-echo-failure 3 pppd will terminate securely when the other end does not answer any more. Nils -- \ /| Nils Rennebarth --* WINDOWS 42 *-- | Schillerstr. 61 / \| 37083 Göttingen | ++49-551-71626 Micro$oft's final answer | http://www.nus.de/~nils
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
CoB SysAdmin (Joe Emenaker) wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Craig Sanders wrote: > > > > > 1. what do you expect for free? > > > > Well, one would expect at least a clean install... If people perceive > > Linux/Debian as being impossible to install, then, well, they won't use it > > :) > > Which is one of the points I've been trying to make. I work at a university > and I see many, many students who hear about Debian and they take the time > to come into our computer lab and make the 5-6 disks needed. They take them > home and install them on their PC at home. Since they don't have a whole lot > of time to go reading a bunch of HOWTO's or to go rooting around in the > files of the base install *and* since they see no mention of ppp in the > install program or install guide, they go for about 2-3 days of running > Debian before they conclude that this isn't any fun at all (not being able > to connect to the net) and we lose a potential user. > > On the other hand, I've talked to the few that *have* gotten PPP going > with dselect and they are the most *jazzed* people you will ever meet. > Using dselect through PPP is the most innovative software distribution > concept they have ever seen. They are fascinated... and, more importantly, > they are Debian users for life, pretty much. It's hard to explain. > Dselect, when it *WORKS* (meaning, "when there's a connection to the net > active" pretty much) and when the user *UNDERSTANDS* what the concept > behind it is, I think that it is the SINGLE BEST selling point for Debian. > But, when the user doesn't understand what the idea is behind it, they > think "Why the &$^&*^# did it stick me in *THIS* program. How do I kill it?", > just like *I* used to do for about a year back in the 0.9-0.93R6 days. > > Now, as things seem to stand now, the ppp part seems like almost an after- > thought (as far as its importance to the effective operation of dselect > goes). The base install seems to be more targeted to people with: A) a > live internet connection, B) Debian on CD, or C) The Debian distribution > on another filesystem or NFS. However, like I mentioned, of the people I > deal with each day, about 5% of the Debian newbies fall into that group. > It seems appropriate to mention Occam's Razor at this point, y'know? > > - Joe UNSUBSCRIBE
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
H... Well, that's news to me. I wasn't aware that pppd would redial. I thought that it just called whatever command that you gave it to connect and that was it. I know that chat is only as smart as the script you give it, so I just worked up my own redial script to use for the pppd connect command, and it just repeats the chat command until it exits with a status that indicates that it got through the whole script. I don't have it reestablish a connection after it drops though, because I don't always want my connection up regardless. Shawn On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Jason Costomiris wrote: > [Now over the next day, I'll get about 10 bounces. Can someone fix the > flippin' list? How about an Errors-to: header? ] > > On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Shawn Asmussen wrote: > > > Cool off, man. What they seem to be talking about IS a Debian issue. > > Although ppp support IS compiled into the kernel, the pppd is separate, > > and the method by which you establish a connection, be it through pon, or > > a custom script like I use, because as far as I know pon will not redial > > Hmm.. Better not tell that to my system. pppd keeps redialing until it > gets connected.. > > > Jason Costomiris | Finger for PGP 2.6.2 Public Key > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "There is a fine line between idiocy > My employers like me, but not | and genius. We aim to erase that line" > enough to let me speak for them. |--Unknown > > http://www.jasons.org/~jcostom > >
pppd keep-alive cron script (was Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!)
> On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Jason Costomiris wrote: > I run myown scripts for ppp not the pon. be that as it may.. all thats > needed here is to make a script that greps for ppp / pon .. whatever. set > this on a cron and bang! if the connection drops, your check script, run > at intervals set via cron, sees it down and restarts it. This is what I use to keep my PPP link up. I have it in my /etc/cron.minutely directory (same idea as the other cron.*ly dirs). It uses two seperate tests to see if pppd is running. I've found that under some conditions, one test or the other can fail, but the two tests together seems to work very well. I only created this about 28-30 hours ago, but I've tested it (unplug phone line, turn modem off for a few minutes then back on, the usual random disconnects, etc) and it recovers nicely. I haven't had to manually pon since I finished it. Disclaimer: YMMV. My modem happens to be on ttyS1. Be sure to change the S1 in the ps args to whatever tty your modem is on. #!/bin/sh if [ ! -e /var/run/ppp0.pid ] then if [ `ps -axwwtS1 | grep -c pppd` = 0 ] then pon fi fi Received: (qmail 26397 invoked by uid 888); 4 Mar 1997 22:33:57 - Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 26395 invoked by uid 888); 4 Mar 1997 22:33:57 - Delivered-To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Received: (qmail 26388 invoked from network); 4 Mar 1997 22:33:56 - Received: from tinuviel.cs.wcu.edu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Mar 1997 22:33:55 - Received: from localhost ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by tinuviel.cs.wcu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13129; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:25:42 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:25:41 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Killen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "( Don )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: help In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I got some stuff like this and it ended up that something had killed init. I also get some weird things, sorta like this, when I load the sysv module. To fix that I recompile and check my modules setup, that was a while ago so I don't really remember. On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, ( Don ) wrote: >hi >i just tried 2 boot up my debian linux partition and i got this. >first of all it begins 2 load the first half of the kernel and then i >get this error no matter if i boot from a floppy ar from my hard >drive.HELP PLEASE > >Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer defernce at virtual address >c4e0 >current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, %cr3=00101000 >*pde=00102067 >*pte=0027 >Oops: >CPU: 0 >EIP: 2048: [] >EFLAGS: 00010046 >eax: 530 ebx:01ff ecx:80ff edx: >esi:9fdc edi: ebp:040a esp:9f20 >ds:2050 es: fs: gs: ss:0018 >Process swapper(PID:1, process n:1, stackpage=9000) >stack: c595, 0001, 530."and lot's of #'s" >Call Trace: [<001732af>] [<00110018>] and more #'s >Code: a0 e0 00 c3 e1 00 c3 a1 e2 00 > c3 00 c8 02 00 00 57 56 33 >Started kswapd v 1.4.2.2 > > >and then it freezes and nothing happens after that? is there any way i >can salvage this? maybe if i set up a linux partition on a separate hard >drive do u think i'll b able to access this one? thank u >dOn Guelich > Jason KillenQuestion Stupidity Monolith : driven by inner daemons RPS : better living through world [EMAIL PROTECTED]domination
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Craig Sanders wrote:
>
> 1. what do you expect for free?
Well, one would expect at least a clean install... If people perceive
Linux/Debian as being impossible to install, then, well, they won't use it
:) And if people don't use an OS, well, that's just bad for people in
general..
>
> 2. if you have a problem then you are more likely to get help by
> sticking to the technical issues rather than starting things off by
> saying how crappy & useless & broken debian is.
>
H... if people don't likes something in Debian, they have every
right to bitch about it. If you don't like what people are saying, ignore
them.
> We know debian isn't perfect. If you have constructive suggestions
> to make, then make them, but don't expect everyone to jump
> immediately and say "yes master! at once, master!".
So I suppose you become the touchstone on what is appropriate and
inappropriate?:) My, my, how fascinating...
>
> If you can improve things, then work on improving them - debian
> development is OPEN. The distinction between debian developers and
> debian users is not very clear-cut.
It would help if the person could get it installed in the first place...
>
> If you have flames, then keep them to yourself (or save them for
> some commercial software support line)
If one has the need to flame, flame away. Just be aware you'll get flamed
back :) Linux is based on the concept of open dialog. If you don't like
it, bitch, moan, etc. You have the right, nobody should intimidate another
just because "they have more experience." :) You might not get help or be
well liked, but if everyone in the Linux community agreed with everyone
and everything, then that would be detrimental to the Linux community
as a whole.
>
> Nobody decides to "...throw the user to the lions..." on this or
> any other poing in debian. Package developer's are only human (and
> they're volunteers...some even have real lives outside of computers
> and the net and debian)...they CANT think of and cater for every
> situation. If you, or any user, has constructive suggestions to make
> then make them.
Yes, but sloppy programming, packaging ought to be flamed. It keeps people
on their toes :)
>
>
> A fair amount of DIY attitude is needed if you want to run a unix
Who made you god and decide who can and can't run a Unix system? Total
morons can run Linux systems, ask dumb questions, get flamed, etc. etc.
But that shouldn't keep them from trying :) It's free, it's there for
everybody.
> system. This is especially true for someone who calls themselves a
> "SysAdmin" and an ISP. There's a lot more to the job than just the
> title. An ISP who doesn't understand PPP and who is unwilling to
> read documentation ("But I shouldn't have to.") is one who i would
Well, if he feels like Linux should be totally automatic, he has every
right to voice his opinions on it. I personally would like an easier to
administrate Unix. I'm sure a lot of people can do without the rigamarole
of learning cryptic commands.
>
> 5. debian-user is a much more pleasant mailing list without all the
> flames. I suggest that everyone ignore any further posts from
> you until you learn some manners.
It would also be a lot less interesting...
>
> 6. I donate my time to try to help out people on this mailing list for
> free. I do this sort of support for a living, and spending time
> helping out in here is one of my ways of putting some energy back
> into debian.
Ohohohoh, and we're supposed to be prostrating before you then? "Oh great
guru of Linux, can you answer my question?"
help != instant gratification
Your reasons are of course, your own biz :)
>
> I'm a volunteer and dont have to put up with such shit. Contact
> me for my standard consulting rates if you want any further email
> support from me.
then don't...
>
> 7. You get what you pay for. caveat emptor.
What a bunch of BS :) By your reasoning we should be having a great OS
with Win95, and a really lousy one with Linux.
Happy flaming!!!
Will
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Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:55:52 +1100
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:55:52 +1100 (EST)
From: Craig Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Scott Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: lprm says "Permission denied" (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messag
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Jason Costomiris wrote: > [Now over the next day, I'll get about 10 bounces. Can someone fix the > flippin' list? How about an Errors-to: header? ] > > On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Shawn Asmussen wrote: > > > Cool off, man. What they seem to be talking about IS a Debian issue. > > Although ppp support IS compiled into the kernel, the pppd is separate, > > and the method by which you establish a connection, be it through pon, or > > a custom script like I use, because as far as I know pon will not redial > > Hmm.. Better not tell that to my system. pppd keeps redialing until it > gets connected.. > I run myown scripts for ppp not the pon. be that as it may.. all thats needed here is to make a script that greps for ppp / pon .. whatever. set this on a cron and bang! if the connection drops, your check script, run at intervals set via cron, sees it down and restarts it.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
John Goerzen wrote: > Bad idea. Replace the entry in the options file with ttyS0, do NOT make a > modem symlink. This could, in fact, be responsible for all the rest of > your problems. > > Reason is: modems use UUCP-style locking. Other programs will see that > /dev/modem is locked, but NOT that /dev/ttyS0 is locked, and will use that > device without asking any questions at all! Is this correct? If this is a symbolic link won't it resolv the link before locking the creating? ie. the UUCP lockfile will be derived from the resolved link and not the link itself. -- Where's my spy camera?
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
1. what do you expect for free?
you are talking as if you have some RIGHT to DEMAND that things get
done according to YOUR needs. Nobody would mind if you politely
asked "how do i get this working?" - but you antagonise people by
demanding "your system is fucked, fix it for me!".
We're all volunteers here, debian developers & users alike...we dont
have to put up with your abusive attitude.
2. if you have a problem then you are more likely to get help by
sticking to the technical issues rather than starting things off by
saying how crappy & useless & broken debian is.
We know debian isn't perfect. If you have constructive suggestions
to make, then make them, but don't expect everyone to jump
immediately and say "yes master! at once, master!".
If you can improve things, then work on improving them - debian
development is OPEN. The distinction between debian developers and
debian users is not very clear-cut.
If you have flames, then keep them to yourself (or save them for
some commercial software support line)
Nobody decides to "...throw the user to the lions..." on this or
any other poing in debian. Package developer's are only human (and
they're volunteers...some even have real lives outside of computers
and the net and debian)...they CANT think of and cater for every
situation. If you, or any user, has constructive suggestions to make
then make them.
3. some things are complex. some things do require a willingness
to read documentation. some things do need a little brainpower to
figure out.
A fair amount of DIY attitude is needed if you want to run a unix
system. This is especially true for someone who calls themselves a
"SysAdmin" and an ISP. There's a lot more to the job than just the
title. An ISP who doesn't understand PPP and who is unwilling to
read documentation ("But I shouldn't have to.") is one who i would
have no hesitation in recommending people to steer clear of. There
is a particular logical, methodical way of thinking/seeing which is
very useful for solving technical problems...you don't seem to have
it.
4. it seems to me that you are in this for the flaming and not to resolve
your technical problems. You seem to respond only to those replies
which have the most flame potential and completely ignore those
which have reasonable suggestions for things you could try (e.g. my
multi-point post of a few days ago was completely ignored)
5. debian-user is a much more pleasant mailing list without all the
flames. I suggest that everyone ignore any further posts from
you until you learn some manners.
6. I donate my time to try to help out people on this mailing list for
free. I do this sort of support for a living, and spending time
helping out in here is one of my ways of putting some energy back
into debian.
However, I am not willing to do that for anyone as abusive as you.
I'm a volunteer and dont have to put up with such shit. Contact
me for my standard consulting rates if you want any further email
support from me.
7. You get what you pay for. caveat emptor.
craig
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Jason Costomiris wrote after: > > On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Shawn Asmussen wrote: > > > Cool off, man. What they seem to be talking about IS a Debian issue. > > Although ppp support IS compiled into the kernel, the pppd is separate, > > and the method by which you establish a connection, be it through pon, or > > a custom script like I use, because as far as I know pon will not redial > > Hmm.. Better not tell that to my system. pppd keeps redialing until it > gets connected.. yup, same here. which is nice 'cause i can reboot the remote machine and walk away confident that the connection will be re-established. what a relief. also, i have found modular ppp support to work just fine as opposed to compiling it in. m* -- "The Shining One" --
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
We have someone who wrote a PPP set-up program that isn't ready for prime time. When it is ready, it will be part of the system. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Joe Emenaker writes: > I'd begin to entertain the idea that I was out in left field if the > install guide even simply MENTIONED something like "Oh, if you want to > use PPP, go read this other document first" Well, you weren't. Is anyone about to start a project to solve this problem? I'm willing to help. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> > Furthermore, saying its NOT is the documentation is just totatlly > wrong! If you chose NOT to install the HOWTO'S or INFO, And how would I go about doing that? I've got 5 install disks and a machine with a modem that can only get to the net via PPP. I'd install the HOWTO's with dselect but, you see, I can't get PPP going. See there? It's kind of a chicken-n-egg problem. > the PPP HOWTO? Yes, I've read the Serial HOWTO. I've read the PPP HOWTO. I've even read the PPP RFC. I know what IPCP does and I know what LCP does. But I shouldn't have to. I didn't have to read the LILO HOWTO to get my machine to boot Linux. I didn't have to read anything about the timezone system to get the timezone set right. I didn't have to read about "mount(1)", or "mke2fs(1)", or "mknod(1)", or anything else like that. Oddly, the Debian install program handled it all for me, as it should. But it's lack of any setup for PPP... it's lack of even *mentioning* that PPP is on the system already... seems to indicate that there was almost a conscious decision to throw the user to the lions on this part. > Linux, any of the distributions, comes with enough doc to keep you > busy, and make you real smart, if you just take the time to look at > it! Its all there man, all of it. I'm not saying that it isn't. What I'm asking is: What percentage of the 10-30MB of documentation does a new Debian user have to read before they are sufficiently informed to take 5 [EMAIL PROTECTED]@ disks home and install it on a machine that only has PPP as a way of accessing the net? 50%? 10%? If you go to the debian home page, you'll find the link for the instaltion guide. The guide doesn't say "Go and read these 200 choice HOWTO's". It bascally says: "Here's how to get the disk images. Here's how to make the diskettes. Here's how to install it. Be well and prosper.". I'd begin to entertain the idea that I was out in left field if the install guide even simply MENTIONED something like "Oh, if you want to use PPP, go read this other document first" - Joe
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
[Now over the next day, I'll get about 10 bounces. Can someone fix the flippin' list? How about an Errors-to: header? ] On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Shawn Asmussen wrote: > Cool off, man. What they seem to be talking about IS a Debian issue. > Although ppp support IS compiled into the kernel, the pppd is separate, > and the method by which you establish a connection, be it through pon, or > a custom script like I use, because as far as I know pon will not redial Hmm.. Better not tell that to my system. pppd keeps redialing until it gets connected.. Jason Costomiris | Finger for PGP 2.6.2 Public Key [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "There is a fine line between idiocy My employers like me, but not| and genius. We aim to erase that line" enough to let me speak for them. | --Unknown http://www.jasons.org/~jcostom
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
hi, This ppp issue is dragging for weeks! i like to suggest a book like "Linux Secrets" by Naba Barkati. From IDG Books. Please, this is *not* a sales pitch. I was having problems setting up ppp. And after reading the book, i setup my ppp within 2 hours. No problems whatsover. The ppp script(you have to tinker the script to your own likings.) was for the slakware. so i installed it on a slakware. After a while, I transferred it in my debian dist. and I was pleasantly surprised when it worked quite without any modifications. Just my 2 cents. Andre M. Varon Bacolod City Technical Head Philippines Lasaltech, Inc. 6100 E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Page: http://www.mozcom.com/ bacolod/andre.htm TeleFax : 433-3520
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Shawn, Well, I respectively disagree. This thread has been going for so long, most of the chatter is NOT about how to establish a connect. What I was seeing here was all this crap about how screwed up Debian was, and how screwed up PPP was, and The real truth is that if someone sees a NEED, like I said, then they should do something about it, if they can, and to Debian for the benefit of all. One message after another, that if uSlop this, or uSlop that just ticked me off! I've been on this list for over two years now, don't post many messages to be sure, but I had seen my fill the last few weeks with all the attacks on Bruce, for this and that, and this damn thing got started. I'd seen enough. If you think the doc is lacking than write some, if you're capable. I read the list to learn something and to follow the Debian development, and personnally I think these guys do a terrrific job with it. If you are capable and able, help them out by adding something where you see a need. I'm not capable of that, or knowledgeable enough. But all this whining don't get it either. Paul >> Why can't you guys give it up! ITs not a Debian thing dude! Its >> compiled into the kernel itself (ppp support). It is NOT a Debian >> issue! I do agree that someone (how about you?) could make it >> better by writing something, from your perspective that might >> help. BUT STOP PUTTING IT ON DEBIAN, OR ANY OTHER >> DISTRIBUTION! If you want to see more of it, monitor the FreeBSD >> questions forum sometime! FreeBSD supports two (different) ways >> of invoking PPP to establish a net link. If you want to do some >> serious whinning about it, try FreeBSD! Now, quit the bitchin' and >> get busy putting your ideas down so it will benefit everyone else. >> Thats the idea here. You guys been bantering this back and forth >> for over a week now. All the whinin' and cryin' won't make a damn >> bit of difference. So, knock it off, and put your energy to good use. >> Or, go somewhere else and bitch.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Cool off, man. What they seem to be talking about IS a Debian issue. Although ppp support IS compiled into the kernel, the pppd is separate, and the method by which you establish a connection, be it through pon, or a custom script like I use, because as far as I know pon will not redial through busy signals, IS a function of your distribution. When you have to run a script that invokes chat, or does whatever to make a ppp connection, and you're trying to figure out what options to use for pppd, I don't think that the proper response is that it is a kernel only issue so stop bitching about it here. Besides, half of this thread seems to be about the fact that Debian in general is not intutive to set up, whether it is your ppp connect script or whatever, and I agree, there does need to be some progress in this area. I think that this is single largest drawback to the Debian distribution in my opinion. Regardless, screaming at people for discussion ppp configuration in the Debian user list is definately not the answer, especially since everything to do with setting up ppp is NOT a kernel issue. Shawn Asmussen On Sun, 2 Mar 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >thats intuitive > > Why can't you guys give it up! ITs not a Debian thing dude! Its > compiled into the kernel itself (ppp support). It is NOT a Debian > issue! I do agree that someone (how about you?) could make it > better by writing something, from your perspective that might > help. BUT STOP PUTTING IT ON DEBIAN, OR ANY OTHER > DISTRIBUTION! If you want to see more of it, monitor the FreeBSD > questions forum sometime! FreeBSD supports two (different) ways > of invoking PPP to establish a net link. If you want to do some > serious whinning about it, try FreeBSD! Now, quit the bitchin' and > get busy putting your ideas down so it will benefit everyone else. > Thats the idea here. You guys been bantering this back and forth > for over a week now. All the whinin' and cryin' won't make a damn > bit of difference. So, knock it off, and put your energy to good use. > Or, go somewhere else and bitch.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
>thats intuitive Why can't you guys give it up! ITs not a Debian thing dude! Its compiled into the kernel itself (ppp support). It is NOT a Debian issue! I do agree that someone (how about you?) could make it better by writing something, from your perspective that might help. BUT STOP PUTTING IT ON DEBIAN, OR ANY OTHER DISTRIBUTION! If you want to see more of it, monitor the FreeBSD questions forum sometime! FreeBSD supports two (different) ways of invoking PPP to establish a net link. If you want to do some serious whinning about it, try FreeBSD! Now, quit the bitchin' and get busy putting your ideas down so it will benefit everyone else. Thats the idea here. You guys been bantering this back and forth for over a week now. All the whinin' and cryin' won't make a damn bit of difference. So, knock it off, and put your energy to good use. Or, go somewhere else and bitch. Paul >> >>Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to >>edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian >>installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go >>that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be >>connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify >>which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the >>people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt >>around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or >>they cheated and asked a friend). >> >>It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even >>included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access >>to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages. >>Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance >>to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files >>to edit). Now *that's* intuitive. >> >>Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features, >>but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution. >> >>Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me >>that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to >>know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some >>tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the >>Debian machine. >> >>I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made >>aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should >>go get the .deb files and that, when he's feeling brave, he should >>get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some >>deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install >>them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M. >>So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was >>going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made >>aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from >>him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!". >> >>The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had >>won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job >>at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time >>Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long >>as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help >>point you in the right direction. >> >>And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, >>I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a >>problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. >> >>- Joe >>
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Andrew Martin Adrian Cater writes: > If your friend has email and news: READ THE NEWSGROUPS. Lurk for a > week/month or two,so that before you rush in you'll see the FAQ's, see > where the problems are. And if he doesn't have net access? And has no friends with Linux? Saying that mailing lists and newsgroups are the solution to all installation problems is tantamount to saying that Windows 95 is necessary to install Linux. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Gary Lee writes: > I would be lovely if PPP could figure out how to connect to the ISP and > what I want to do with it--without me telling it... That may not be possible without more standardization. It should be possible ot make it easier, though. > (but thats not FUN). Fighting with configuration problems is never FUN. > Until some dear soul has the time and inclination to add to the good work > already done, we will have to help each other. I'm willing to help, but I can't do it myself. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
It seems obvious to many of us, but not to the real newbie, so why not make the installation program display a large banner before going into dselect that advises the new user to look in /usr/doc. The Debian README for ppp discusses pon and friends at length. Bob At 07:54 PM 3/1/97 PST, CoB SysAdmin (Joe Emenaker) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two >> > it might seem daunting. >> >> Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a >> rite of passage? > >Exactly! I keep seeing posts from people who say "All I did was >'cat /usr/bin/pon' and went and edited "/etc/ppp.chatscript.". Well, tell me, >where in the Debian installation guide >(ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable/disks-i386/current/install.html) does it >mention "pon" (or even "ppp" for that matter)? In fact, show me where in >the installation guide it even makes reference to ANY other document that >refers to "pon" or "ppp". This leads to the question: How many hyperlinks >deep do I need to go before I find out how to install Debian? > >Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to >edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian >installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go >that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be >connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify >which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the >people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt >around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or >they cheated and asked a friend). > >It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even >included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access >to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages. >Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance >to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files >to edit). Now *that's* intuitive. > >Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features, >but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution. > >Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me >that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to >know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some >tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the >Debian machine. > >I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made >aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should >go get the .deb files and that, when he's feeling brave, he should >get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some >deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install >them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M. >So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was >going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made >aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from >him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!". > >The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had >won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job >at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time >Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long >as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help >point you in the right direction. > >And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, >I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a >problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. > >- Joe >
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On 14:06:41 Gary Lee wrote: >> I think you all have very good points. I have used 3 different >ISPs and had to set them up 3 different ways. I would be lovely if PPP >could figure out how to connect to the ISP and what I want to do with >it--without me telling it (but thats not FUN). I don't think anyone is >saying that PPP is broken, just that it could use a little polish. Until >some dear soul has the time and inclination to add to the good work >already done, we will have to help each other. I do believe that's why >this list exist. >And thats all I have to say about that... > >Gary Lee I do the same thing here. Its pretty simple. Create the proper chatscript and options files with whats needed for those connects, and write a little script to copy them to options/chatscript when needed. Could be a little smarter, to figure out who you want to connect to at some point, but for me thats not neccessary, so I just do it the 'easy' way. Its not pretty, with little buttons and bows, it just works and does the job thats needed. Its no bid deal, really. But these folks that want it all handed to them, and don't care to do anything for themselves, should go along, follow uSlop right over the edge, just like little lemmings. Nuff said! Paul
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
I think you all have very good points. I have used 3 different ISPs and had to set them up 3 different ways. I would be lovely if PPP could figure out how to connect to the ISP and what I want to do with it--without me telling it (but thats not FUN). I don't think anyone is saying that PPP is broken, just that it could use a little polish. Until some dear soul has the time and inclination to add to the good work already done, we will have to help each other. I do believe that's why this list exist. And thats all I have to say about that... Gary Lee
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wri tes: > > Look, you don't seem to get the idea here! If you see a NEED, and > are so smart to be able to solve the problem for everyone, WRITE > IT YOURSELF and submit it to Debian! > > Furthermore, saying its NOT is the documentation is just totatlly > wrong! If you chose NOT to install the HOWTO'S or INFO, thats > your problem AND not the guys that put it all together. Have you > read the Net and Serial HOWTO'S? OR, GASP! the PPP HOWTO? > I did an initial CD-install and hade all docs. The docs is OK (info from my ISP was not) and they helpt me get PPP and even diald up. But I still be stuck if I only hade an flopy install from the 6 base disks! Now when flopyless/1/2/floppy CD install is in reach and 2 floppy install for network gurus the 'pure' flopy install might be expanded with a disk or two? Man utilytys and some basic network and system documentation could give newbes a fair chans. I know I be stranded with the curent flopy install. Nowdays I knowe where to look for info, but the first time I been *REALY* stranded! It's sad the users dont know where to go when they actuly hav *suceded* instaling an *great* system (insert lots of IMHO wherever You se fit). (this list is so *polite* that I, with my limeted english knowlage, hardly daer speek in fear of, by mistake, insult someone. Why is everyone so upset about this subject?) Thanx all, for debian and this great list /Lars
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to > edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian > installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go > that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be > connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify > which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the > people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt > around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or > they cheated and asked a friend). The Debian files in /etc/ppp/* are generic: I have two ISP's who have two ENTIRELY different setups: I had to ask the ISP's what they needed by way of login strings and edit accordingly. Your init strings for win.bright.net won't work here for Demon. The PPP HOWTO gives a generic command line which is insecure because it includes the password but which will get you going if you have to. > And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, > I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a > problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. > > - Joe > MS DOS was a three week learning curve for me: Linux was about 6 months. If your friend has email and news: READ THE NEWSGROUPS. Lurk for a week/month or two,so that before you rush in you'll see the FAQ's, see where the problems are. Reading Debian documentation is something most people don't always do immediately anyway. Debian isn't necessarily for the absolute beginner to Linux although it does offer the most potential. Most people start with Slack/Red Hat then hear about Debian and move across. The best way, as ever, is to have a friend to help out. i'll help anyone I can locally or internationally: the advice initially to read newsgroups, HOWTO's and manuals (possibly in that order) still holds. Yes there are problems with dselect / dpkg and the whole concept of dependencies if you're new to Debian: help your friend through these and encourage him to help others. If you don't like the documentation feel free to write some - at least Running Linux from Matt Welsh is being updated to take account of Debian AFAIK. Andy
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Look, you don't seem to get the idea here! If you see a NEED, and are so smart to be able to solve the problem for everyone, WRITE IT YOURSELF and submit it to Debian! Furthermore, saying its NOT is the documentation is just totatlly wrong! If you chose NOT to install the HOWTO'S or INFO, thats your problem AND not the guys that put it all together. Have you read the Net and Serial HOWTO'S? OR, GASP! the PPP HOWTO? Linux, any of the distributions, comes with enough doc to keep you busy, and make you real smart, if you just take the time to look at it! Its all there man, all of it. Saying its not is like saying the sun isn't gonna come up tomorrow because Debian is so screwed up or PPP is at fault for aids for Pete's sake! If you want it to be 'easy' just go back to uSlop, and let them take away all the options and make all your decisions for you! If you don't want to learn what makes it tick, and find your problem, then you'll fit right in with their philosophy. Paul >they cheated and asked a friend). > >It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even >included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access >to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages. >Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance >to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files >to edit). Now *that's* intuitive. > >Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features, >but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution. > >Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me >that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to >know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some >tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the >Debian machine. > >I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made >aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should >go get the .deb files and that, when he's feeling brave, he should >get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some >deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install >them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M. >So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was >going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made >aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from >him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!". > >The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had >won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job >at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time >Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long >as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help >point you in the right direction. > >And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, >I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a >problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. > >- Joe
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Look, if you can't get a connect, its NOT Debian, and its NOT PPP in all likelihood! If you do get logged into your provider, and then can't communicate to the net, its NOT either Debian OR PPP. Its probably YOUR setup (most likely), or your ISP (least likely). PPP is a link level protocol, responsible for setting up and maintaining the low level link; NOT the tcp/ip network! Different animal! If your scripts and options file doesn't setup the link properly, then its PPP and its setup at fault. If it does establish the link, and your script gets you logged in, then its not PPP, its your tcp/ip net setup. None of them are the DISTRIBUTION's fault, NONE! More often than not its probably your own, since it works, and works well for so many of us. Can an ISP create an environment that simply won't work with the default options file ? Absolutely! But again, THAT IS NOT THE DISTRIBUTION! So knock off all the smacking these guys for your own problem, or that which your ISP has created! They can't do anything about it! >By that standard, we should discuss only dselect and dpkg. Isn't Right, but its NOT productive to blame Debian or any other distr. for this, especially when the problem is more likely than not your own or your script. >Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a Then why don't you write it and stop all the bitching if you're so damn smart? >Judging from what I see on the linux newsgroups, many are using Windows95. >Microsoft evidently makes it easy. Why can't Debian? Actually, I rather like access to all the options that you DON'T get with uSlop! Paul >--- >John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. >[EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. >Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. >Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Peter Iannarelli wrote: > The ISP has nothing to do with it. There is a systematic > approach to setting up anything. Before one can resolve > an issue one must understand the problem. > The approach is: > > 1: manually dial up and log into your ISA > 2: edit the respective files so that the proper > strings are looked for and responded with > 3: adjust the protocol config files accordingly > > Just a not, there is one thing missing in the > distributed etc/ppp/options files "defaultroute". > That if the ISA is the primary DNS. > Hmmm... that's of course assuming everything goes smoothly in steps 1-3. There are certain setups in which when you dial in using a terminal, it activates a shell account, but when you dial in using the Win95 PPP setup, it becomes PPP, so manually dialing in does nothing for you. You have to assume that PPP is somehow passively established, but you don't know what the delay period is, since there is no easy way to monitor what Win95 does during a PPP negotiation. Also, such services as AT&T, AOL dervitives, etc. have proprietary dialers which dialin scripts which you can't easily access or figure out. A manual dial in does not necessarily work in such circumstances because even the user password is not accepted at the boot prompt... you get the picture... Then of course you have to determine whether PPP is passively or actively activated, whether it requires PAP/CHAP authentication, whether your need to specify the defaultroure, etc. etc. In other words, a lot of headaches. Will
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> > > It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two > > it might seem daunting. > > Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a > rite of passage? Exactly! I keep seeing posts from people who say "All I did was 'cat /usr/bin/pon' and went and edited "/etc/ppp.chatscript.". Well, tell me, where in the Debian installation guide (ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable/disks-i386/current/install.html) does it mention "pon" (or even "ppp" for that matter)? In fact, show me where in the installation guide it even makes reference to ANY other document that refers to "pon" or "ppp". This leads to the question: How many hyperlinks deep do I need to go before I find out how to install Debian? Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or they cheated and asked a friend). It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages. Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files to edit). Now *that's* intuitive. Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features, but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution. Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the Debian machine. I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should go get the .deb files and that, when he's feeling brave, he should get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M. So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!". The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help point you in the right direction. And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to, I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial. - Joe
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
William Chow writes: > What's the solution, you ask? Get PPP connections standardized. That is the ultimate solution, but in the mean time we could supply some examples. It doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem to document the five most common arrangements, for example. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
The ISP has nothing to do with it. There is a systematic approach to setting up anything. Before one can resolve an issue one must understand the problem. The approach is: 1: manually dial up and log into your ISA 2: edit the respective files so that the proper strings are looked for and responded with 3: adjust the protocol config files accordingly Just a not, there is one thing missing in the distributed etc/ppp/options files "defaultroute". That if the ISA is the primary DNS. -- From: William Chow[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 01, 1997 10:14 AM To: Peter Iannarelli Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?! On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Peter Iannarelli wrote: > I'd like to say the getting PPP up and running was a breeze. > Took about an hour. (1 hour because I had to install hardware, > and track down a priviledge level issue on a cuaX.) > > The actual ppp stuff took abount 10-15 minutes. > "Dial out with dynamic ip" > > I don't see what all the whining is about. > AHEM... Just because PPP works for you doesn't necessarily mean it works as easily for others. This is due to the fact that ISPs differ in how they establish PPP connections. You shouldn't assume that others have the same type of PPP setup as you do, as there are literrally hundreds of differing ISPs out there. I've helped a couple people install PPP on their Linux boxes, and it can vary from a no-brainer to a night in hell. What's the solution, you ask? Get PPP connections standardized. Will
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Jason Costomiris writes: > 1) cat /usr/bin/pon Looked at it, saw it uses /etc/ppp.chatscript Why did you have to this? Is there no documentation? > 2) vi /etc/ppp.chatscript No configuration script either? -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Paul writes: > This is getting pretty boring, with all the silly ranting and > raving. Looks like discussion to me. Use your killfile. > For Pete's sake, the Debian guys didn't create PPP in the first place! > Take it to those that did, if you're really that stuck! By that standard, we should discuss only dselect and dpkg. Isn't configuration and installation of software created by others what a distribution is all about? > It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two > it might seem daunting. Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a rite of passage? > I mean c'mon, what do you think the rest of us are using to get to the > net? Judging from what I see on the linux newsgroups, many are using Windows95. Microsoft evidently makes it easy. Why can't Debian? --- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Peter Iannarelli wrote: > I'd like to say the getting PPP up and running was a breeze. > Took about an hour. (1 hour because I had to install hardware, > and track down a priviledge level issue on a cuaX.) > > The actual ppp stuff took abount 10-15 minutes. > "Dial out with dynamic ip" > > I don't see what all the whining is about. > AHEM... Just because PPP works for you doesn't necessarily mean it works as easily for others. This is due to the fact that ISPs differ in how they establish PPP connections. You shouldn't assume that others have the same type of PPP setup as you do, as there are literrally hundreds of differing ISPs out there. I've helped a couple people install PPP on their Linux boxes, and it can vary from a no-brainer to a night in hell. What's the solution, you ask? Get PPP connections standardized. Will
RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
I agree! This is getting pretty boring, with all the silly ranting and raving. For Pete's sake, the Debian guys didn't create PPP in the first place! Take it to those that did, if you're really that stuck! It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two it might seem daunting. I mean c'mon, what do you think the rest of us are using to get to the net? Good grief, this thread has been a marathon already! Almost as bad as all the grief thrown at Bruce lately over the publicity thing, or the mess about some damn contest or other..gezzz! >I don't see what all the whining is about. > Paul > >It is not difficult for you or me to get PPP working. It *is* difficult >for many people. There is a real problem, and saying over and over "It >isn't hard for me" is no solution. >-- >John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. >[EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. >Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. >Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Richard Morin wrote: > how-to. When I switched to Debian, I quickly looked at pon, but soon > went back to ppp-on which worked. I've started over, and just > can't get pon to work. Not as easily as ppp-on anyway. What?!? That mess (ppp-on) is easier than pon? Here's what it took for me to set up ppp 1) cat /usr/bin/pon Looked at it, saw it uses /etc/ppp.chatscript. 2) vi /etc/ppp.chatscript plopped in the phone number, username, password 3) pon Shouldn't take more than a minute and a half... Jason Costomiris | Finger for PGP 2.6.2 Public Key [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "There is a fine line between idiocy My employers like me, but not| and genius. We aim to erase that line" enough to let me speak for them. | --Unknown http://www.jasons.org/~jcostom
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997,, John wrote: John> > I editted /etc/ppp.chatscript to properly log into the John> > dial-in server. Since /etc/ppp.options_out made reference to John> > /dev/modem, I went to /dev and make a symlink from "modem" to John> > "ttyS0". (I know I could have edited the John> John> Bad idea. Replace the entry in the options file with ttyS0, do John> NOT make a modem symlink. This could, in fact, be responsible John> for all the rest of your problems. Funny, I never had any problems running it from link. (same goes for mouse, cdrom, tape and so on...). Besides uucp locking collusion, there nothing wrong with that. borik -- Boris D. Beletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hebrew University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jerusalem, Israelphone: +972 2 6411880
RE: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
I'd like to say the getting PPP up and running was a breeze. Took about an hour. (1 hour because I had to install hardware, and track down a priviledge level issue on a cuaX.) The actual ppp stuff took abount 10-15 minutes. "Dial out with dynamic ip" I don't see what all the whining is about. regards, In the dark. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 01, 1997 9:22 AM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?! Craig writes: > IT IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL TO GET PPP WORKING ON DEBIAN. > More generally, it is not difficult at all to get PPP working on any of > the Linux distributions I've worked with. It is not difficult for you or me to get PPP working. It *is* difficult for many people. There is a real problem, and saying over and over "It isn't hard for me" is no solution. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On 1 Mar 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Craig writes: > > IT IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL TO GET PPP WORKING ON DEBIAN. > > > More generally, it is not difficult at all to get PPP working on any of > > the Linux distributions I've worked with. > > It is not difficult for you or me to get PPP working. It *is* difficult > for many people. There is a real problem, and saying over and over "It > isn't hard for me" is no solution. > -- > John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. An interesting and thoughtful response. I'll admit that the only reason I got ppp working with slack is because I copied out of a how-to. When I switched to Debian, I quickly looked at pon, but soon went back to ppp-on which worked. I've started over, and just can't get pon to work. Not as easily as ppp-on anyway. I've tried dunc, didn't seem to work. I saw in the newsgroups a new proggy which runs under x which claims to help set up ppp. I'm not at my box at the moment, but if anyone is interested I'll get the url. Rich M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Craig writes: > IT IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL TO GET PPP WORKING ON DEBIAN. > More generally, it is not difficult at all to get PPP working on any of > the Linux distributions I've worked with. It is not difficult for you or me to get PPP working. It *is* difficult for many people. There is a real problem, and saying over and over "It isn't hard for me" is no solution. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, CoB SysAdmin wrote: > > > > Gee, that's *&[EMAIL PROTECTED]& hillarious, since *I'm* the ISP and I > > configured > > the dial-up server exactly the way specified in the PPP HOWTO. > > well, then you must have done something wrong. Either in your dialin > server config, or in the config on the machine dialing out. (suggestion to use diald) > > you're right on this point - you don't need diald for what you want to set > up. > and you don't need ppp as a kernel module, either - KISS. Did you get my e-mail on the need to send a modem "AT" command (at&s0 on my modem, but this isn't standardized for all modems) to set DSR on so that the modem won't hang up between the time the chat script ends and pppd takes over? Your highly detailed diagnostic output seemed to me to indicate that the pppd's on each end were in the process of negotiation, but I'm not experienced enough in these areas to be sure. BTW, I'm sure this list will eventually resolve your problem in spite of the tone of your postings. I understand that debugging problems like this can be very frustrating (especially when Bill M$s and his henchmen make it look so easy), but you catch more bees with honey than with a ration of sh*t. -- - Ralph Winslow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someday soon I really MUST find a way to piss away a LOT of bandwidth on this .sig
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, CoB SysAdmin wrote: > > This is perhaps indicitive of a problem with your ISP. It is strange > > that it goes out but does not return. > > Gee, that's *&[EMAIL PROTECTED]& hillarious, since *I'm* the ISP and I > configured > the dial-up server exactly the way specified in the PPP HOWTO. well, then you must have done something wrong. Either in your dialin server config, or in the config on the machine dialing out. I've (so far) set up over a dozen machines as debian-based PPP dialin servers. Not a single problem with any of them. (most of these, btw, are installed at schools where the technical knowledge of the average teacher is not very high - yet they manage to get their win/win95/mac boxes connected to the dialin server from home) I've also set up dozens and dozens of linux boxes (mostly debian, some redhat and slackware) to dial out to an ISP and either maintain a permanent connection or just dial on demand. IT IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL TO GET PPP WORKING ON DEBIAN. More generally, it is not difficult at all to get PPP working on any of the Linux distributions I've worked with. Certainly a lot easier than slip. It is easier to get a dialin server up and running than it is to configure a dialout ppp connection - for a dialin server all you have to do is build a debian box (making sure that you install the ppp package), and create user accounts. The hardest PPP setup i've ever done was one particular site (using redhat) which needed an eql load-balanced link using two modems from one office to another officemost of the time taken to do that was in reading the documentation to figure out how the eql driver worked...and then trying to splice that into redhat's bletcherous init/config file system. > > If you want a better solution, why not use diald? It will > > automatically bring up the modem when there is a connection attempt, > > will handle disconnects due to idle, etc. > > This is silly. This is like asking me to put my coffee-maker on > an auto- matic timer when the damn thing doesn't even make coffee > correctly in the first place. All diald would do is give me a > non-functioning ppp link... by hey, at least it would be "on-demand", > eh? you're right on this point - you don't need diald for what you want to set up. One thing for you to check: is /usr/bin/pppd setuid root on both machines? Craig
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
In your email to me, CoB SysAdmin, you wrote: > > Gee, that's *&[EMAIL PROTECTED]& hillarious, since *I'm* the ISP and I > configured the > dial-up server exactly the way specified in the PPP HOWTO. > > > If you want a better solution, why not use diald? It will automatically > > bring up the modem when there is a connection attempt, will handle > > disconnects due to idle, etc. > > This is silly. This is like asking me to put my coffee-maker on an auto- > matic timer when the damn thing doesn't even make coffee correctly in the > first place. All diald would do is give me a non-functioning ppp link... > by hey, at least it would be "on-demand", eh? > > To your credit, from what I've been reading, only you and Jens Jorgensen seem > to know PPP from a hole in the ground. You two are the only ones who seemed > to have even a clue as to where the problem might lie. Strangely, you two > are also the only ones who suggested diald which is clearly an > inappropriate step until I actually can get a packet back from the remote > machine. Gee.. as an ISP myself, and someone who has also built houses from scratch, I think I know PPP *and* a hole in the ground. See my howto on my ISP page, and then try your ppp dialin again. If you can't get it to work, email me at buoy.com. We have people dialing in with Linux every day. Tim -- (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] / (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.buoy.com/~tps "Cogito, ergo sum. Cogito, ergo doleo. Cogito sumere potum alterum." I think, I am. I think, I am depressed. I think I'll have another drink. -- Rob Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ** Disclaimer: My views/comments/beliefs, as strange as they are, are my own.**
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Interesting, I find Debian Linux to be the most easiest PPP setup. All I have is the following # cat /etc/ppp.options_out /dev/modem 38400 204.97.69.153:204.97.64.1 defaultroute note the defaultroute at the end that's what tells pppd to setup the default route. -- Where's my spy camera?
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> > > I editted /etc/ppp.chatscript to properly log into the dial-in server. > > Since /etc/ppp.options_out made reference to /dev/modem, I went to /dev and > > make a symlink from "modem" to "ttyS0". (I know I could have edited the > > Bad idea. Replace the entry in the options file with ttyS0, do NOT make a > modem symlink. This could, in fact, be responsible for all the rest of > your problems. No. The system is doing nothing else with serial ports. I am very aware of the device locking issues. The reason I left the "/dev/modem" entry was because I wanted the stock Debian files to be as pristine as possible... to illustrate that they shouldn't be shipped that way. > > of the connection, apparently). So, I tried pinging and not a > > single packet came back (although I could see them getting sent out on the > > modem by watching the lights). Pinging went fine, but didn't use > > the modem. Pinging anywhere on the server's network other than . > > This is perhaps indicitive of a problem with your ISP. It is strange that > it goes out but does not return. Gee, that's *&[EMAIL PROTECTED]& hillarious, since *I'm* the ISP and I configured the dial-up server exactly the way specified in the PPP HOWTO. > If you want a better solution, why not use diald? It will automatically > bring up the modem when there is a connection attempt, will handle > disconnects due to idle, etc. This is silly. This is like asking me to put my coffee-maker on an auto- matic timer when the damn thing doesn't even make coffee correctly in the first place. All diald would do is give me a non-functioning ppp link... by hey, at least it would be "on-demand", eh? To your credit, from what I've been reading, only you and Jens Jorgensen seem to know PPP from a hole in the ground. You two are the only ones who seemed to have even a clue as to where the problem might lie. Strangely, you two are also the only ones who suggested diald which is clearly an inappropriate step until I actually can get a packet back from the remote machine. - Joe
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
CoB SysAdmin: I am no PPP guru by any means. In spite of this, I found my way through I issue the command pppd as root, and the /etc/ppp/options and the /etc/ppp/chatscript take care of all else. Then I can telnet, ftp, run lynx or netscape from X... I did find it necessary to compile a kernel to get modules that would work. I understand that under 1.2 it is easier, and that PPP is available in the base package. After rereading your message you certainly have read the /usr/doc/ppp/README* files. No need to rub salt into the wound by saying, as Bruce asks, "RTM", you did already. I hope someone will help you, I'm certain someone can. My experience was that if every detail of the login sequence isn't covered, ppp didn't connect. -- a happy ppp user - and maybe a fortunate one, as well David Teague - LINUX: the FREE 32 bit OS for [345]86 PC's available NOW! David B Teague | User interface copyrights & software patents make [EMAIL PROTECTED] | programing a dangerous business. Ask me or [EMAIL PROTECTED] spy counter-intelligence wild porno sex gold bullion Soviet Bosnia clipper On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, CoB SysAdmin wrote: > Well, I've been working with Debian systems for over a year now and I've > been able to get it to dial into my ISP about three times. Each time, I > had to use "route" to make the default gateway to be the ip that I could > get with "ifconfig". > EVERY person I've talked to who has tried getting dial-up ppp going on > Debian has approached it like a heavyweight fighter preparing for a title > fight. They spend a few days just mentally preparing for the ordeal. Then, > when they finally DO get it working, I usually get some jubilant e-mail > from them... something along the lines of "Hey man!!! I actually got PPP > going!". One of these people was a coworker I see often. He got it all > working about two weeks ago. Then, his roommate had to use the modem so he > unhooked the connection for a while. To this day, the coworker has not been > able to reproduce the ONLY success he's ever had with ppp. > So, today, I resolved to put this nonsense to rest. Being the local Debian > guru, I told this coworker that I would figure out all of the changes that > needed to be done to the base distribution in order to do get everything > working smoothly. Now, having heard that you're supposed to be able to just > edit /etc/ppp.chatscript and make a "ppp_on_boot" file, I figured I'd try > that first. > This is my saga: > I editted /etc/ppp.chatscript to properly log into the dial-in server. > Since /etc/ppp.options_out made reference to /dev/modem, I went to /dev and > make a symlink from "modem" to "ttyS0". (I know I could have edited the > options file, but I wanted to leave the stock config files as pristine as > possible to illustrate how screwed up the whole setup is). I moved the > "no_ppp_on_boot" to "ppp_on_boot". Lastly, I edited "/etc/modules" to > include "serial" and "ppp" (although kerneld would probably load them on > demand anyway... again, I wanted to "roll out the red carpet" for ppp). > Then, I rebooted... > > The system started up... started pppd and the modem began dialing. I watched > the whole show by periodically doing "tail /var/log/messages". Chatscript > logged in fine and started ppp on the other end. Then, the system hung up > the phone. /var/log/messages reported "Cannot determine ethernet address > for proxy ARP". This is because "proxyarp" is uncommented /etc/ppp/options. > Why? Beats me. So, to fix this error, I added "-proxyarp" to > /etc/ppp.options_out and gave it a go again > This time, /var/log/messages recorded that pppd received the local and > remote IP addresses. I will refer to them as and . > (As well as showing that the AppleTalk and IPX drivers had become aware > of the connection, apparently). So, I tried pinging and not a > single packet came back (although I could see them getting sent out on the > modem by watching the lights). Pinging went fine, but didn't use > the modem. Pinging anywhere on the server's network other than . > Doing an ifconfig (which paused for about 45 seconds... I've never had that > happen before) showed the proper local and remote IP's for interface ppp0. > Then, "route -n" reported: > (Keep in mind that I'm using "" and "" in place of the > real ones for easier reading...) > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Met Ref Use Iface > 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 > 127.0.0.1 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U0 0 1 lo > 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 > Which *seems* okay. I was a little concerned about not seeing a "default" > in there, but "route add default metric 1", but that didn't > cause anything new to show up in "route -n". Lastly, after a couple minutes, > the connection will drop, with /var/log/message
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, CoB [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe Emenaker) wrote: > EVERY person I've talked to who has tried getting dial-up ppp going on > Debian has approached it like a heavyweight fighter preparing for a title > fight. They spend a few days just mentally preparing for the ordeal. Then, Funny, I have found Debian's PPP easier to set up than any other Linux. I have had no troubles of this kind. In fact, the only problems I've ever had have been traced to my ISP. > I editted /etc/ppp.chatscript to properly log into the dial-in server. > Since /etc/ppp.options_out made reference to /dev/modem, I went to /dev and > make a symlink from "modem" to "ttyS0". (I know I could have edited the Bad idea. Replace the entry in the options file with ttyS0, do NOT make a modem symlink. This could, in fact, be responsible for all the rest of your problems. Reason is: modems use UUCP-style locking. Other programs will see that /dev/modem is locked, but NOT that /dev/ttyS0 is locked, and will use that device without asking any questions at all! > The system started up... started pppd and the modem began dialing. I watched > the whole show by periodically doing "tail /var/log/messages". Chatscript It's possible you missed something then... Try using tail -f /var/log/messages. > of the connection, apparently). So, I tried pinging and not a > single packet came back (although I could see them getting sent out on the > modem by watching the lights). Pinging went fine, but didn't use > the modem. Pinging anywhere on the server's network other than . This is perhaps indicitive of a problem with your ISP. It is strange that it goes out but does not return. > Which *seems* okay. I was a little concerned about not seeing a "default" > in there, but "route add default metric 1", but that didn't > cause anything new to show up in "route -n". Lastly, after a couple minutes, > the connection will drop, with /var/log/messages reporting: Oops, seems that you forgot to put "defaultroute" keyword in your PPP configuration! Although, since you specified -n, route WON'T show a "default" route!! So it could be (and perhaps is likely) that the 0.0.0.0 entry is indeed your default. > Also, I tried dialing into a Cisco terminal server and all I got was "Could > not determine local IP address". Again, I don't have this problem with Win95. Just because it works with Windows 95 does *not* mean that it works correctly. My ISP has a Cisco term server and it works with Windows 95 but doesn't negotiate the remote IP address with *ANY* other OS -- OS/2, Linux, FreeBSD, even some other Windows socket implementations. It appears that Win95 is a lot more forgiving than standards would indicate that it should be. > So, I have a few questions: > 1 - Why is PPP this screwed up? Even if the "ppp_on_boot" thing *did* work, It isn't. > why is there no mention of it in the instal program? There are a lot of > people out there who install Debian on their home systems and need to > use ppp in order to add/update packages via ftp. Shouldn't a little more > effort be made to make this a little simpler? I don't know of ANYONE > who looks forward to attempting ppp on Linux without a sense of dread. It was easy for me. Easy for others I know. I don't know why you are making it so hard on yourself :-) If you want a better solution, why not use diald? It will automatically bring up the modem when there is a connection attempt, will handle disconnects due to idle, etc. > 2 - How can I fix it in the short term? Does anyone know what I can do to > be able to see the remote network? Well, without seeing your exact configs, it's hard to say. If you'd like to mail me (privately, not to the list) your ppp configs and relevant portions of /var/log/messages, I'll take a look and see if I can spot anything. BTW, isn't the appropriate file to edit /etc/ppp.options_out? > 3 - I think I'm resigned to the fact that this figgin' ppp catastrophe isn't > going to get fixed unless I do it myself. I'm tenatively planning on > writing a set of scripts and ppp.options files to allow people to > easily configure their system as a dial-in server or as a home machine > that dials into an ISP. Does anyone want to offer suggestions, help > code, or help test? This is what the existing system accomplishes, no? --- John Goerzen | Running Debian GNU/Linux (www.debian.org) Custom Programming| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
> > Martin Stromberg wrote: [Klippa, klapp, kluppit] > > I'm not sure that it's possible to ping over ppp. > > Oh my. If you really don't know that much about something please don't > risk > spreading disinformation. ping is of course possible over ppp. About the Oh, my. Aren't we ticklish today? I tried to spread the information that _I_ didn't know. [Klippa, klapp, kluppit a lot about ppp problem.] > > > 3 - I think I'm resigned to the fact that this figgin' ppp catastrophe > > > isn't > > > going to get fixed unless I do it myself. I'm tenatively planning on > > > writing a set of scripts and ppp.options files to allow people to > > > easily configure their system as a dial-in server or as a home machine > > > that dials into an ISP. Does anyone want to offer suggestions, help > > > code, or help test? > > > > I've had that "Could not determine local IP address". I fixed it by > > putting my own : pair somewhere in the options file. > > This gave me some other problems; I think it would connect but after a while > > disconnect with some of error message in /var/log/debug. Then I added some > > other options to pppd, I can't remember their exact names but it was > > something > > like accept-ip-local and accept-ip-remote. Then it worked just fine. > > It sounds like you need to specify your local IP, since the peer isn't > giving it > to you. Don't set the remote IP if you don't have to--this doesn't > really help you. Well in my case ther error message was something like "Could not determine remote IP address". So I concluded that I wasn't getting a remote address. And by remove one of the options accept-ip-local and accept-ip-remote at a time I saw that the ppp peer insisted that I used his idea of local IP. I think his setup is faulty, it should provide me a _remote_ IP and not insist on a certain local one. Shouldn't it? Anyway as the people who are running that only know about Windoze and Macs and talking to them is like talking to a tree or a log, I haven't had the stamina to get them to realise that their setup isn't correct. I could be wrong also... > > By the way, I still have that proxyarp flag in the options file, so I always > > get that error message about not being able to determine address. But my > > ppp works anyway. > > Proxyarp only makes sense on a machine with 1) an ethernet card and 2) > other hosts > which hang off that ethernet who'd like to be able to get to the machine > on the other > end of the PPP link. Don't use proxyarp unless both of these is true. (I > suspect the > machine you're dialing from only has a modem, no e-net card. This option > would be > much more usefully applied on the server side.) I do have another machine on an ethernet. I haven't set it up properly yet. If I get this error message, does that mean I can't reach the net from that machine? > > Oh; by the way again, I don't use ppp at bootup or kerneld. I start pppd by > > hand by executing pon as root whenever I want to go out on the net. > > > > Don't be a "pon". ;) Use diald, (unless you run a name daemon or > sendmail locally and > you don't want it bringing up the link with your say-so), and I'm sure > you'll find > it delightful. I'm sure I would, but _I_ want to be in control when to bring up the link. I like to be able to call when I want and to receive calls when I'm awake. So can diald handle a situation like automatic dialing and disconnecting but only, say, between midnight and six in the morning? > -- > Jens B. Jorgensen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hopefully not disinformingly helpful, MartinS
Re. Why is PPP so screwed up
For what it's worth, I got PPP up and going in about 5 minutes. ae ppp.option_out, ae ppp.chatscript and ae resolv.conf. No problem, and this was my first time ever dealing with linux. Once I get comfortable with it, I'm going to try WABI so I can put debian on this laptop. Matthew K. Lung Wake Forest School of Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
