Re: [OT] Mice
On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 09:21:56 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/09/2011 06:02 AM, Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:21:23 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: (...) Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K Logitech has also a bunch of plain mice corded and laser based but... they don't look like my fatty balled mouse :-) Look, do you see the difference? The old model is slightly curved on the top while the modern one is straight: I'm left-handed, so the straight one is best for me. (Just for archiving purposes) I finally got a new set of mice (yes, optical, I think it has 800 ppp). Specifically this one: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/basic-optical-mouse/P58-1 It was the one I found with the closest design to the older (size and weight). As I preferred to keep the old mouse serial port of the motherboard (instead wasting one port from the USB hub), I'm using it with a USB to PS/2 adapter. I find the optical mouse is it a bit quicker than the older so I had to reduce its speed from GNOME mouse settings. So far so good. Yeepi! I no longer feel like a dinosaur, now I'm in cool's club 8-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.24.15.51...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
Yeepi! I no longer feel like a dinosaur, now I'm in cool's club 8-) Welcome to the club ;). Perhaps you and I should share the same doctor, when we get our first tendonitis :D. Of course, my new mouse has much better buttons, regarding to debouncing, but I'm not that happy as you seems to be. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1308937532.14697.19.camel@debian
Re: [OT] Mice
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) You put the mouse on a notebook or on the back of a handout. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktingqf6h9cf3t45t+r0wsg0p+_y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 17:21 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I use alcohol to clean the ball and internal rollers. But I'm afraid laser based mice get also dirty (bottom surface has also to be cleaned for fast sliding). Once a year. Maybe. But as I said on my previous post to Ron, I can live with them. What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K This mouse perhaps fits too my needs. Shit! Is there another vendor, than Microsoft selling the same mouse ;)? I would grasp the nettle and buy a Microsoft one, if I shouldn't find another vendor selling similar mice. The PS/2 mouse were the mouse wheel using Debian doesn't work, seems to be a Microsoft mouse too http://www.comresurs.ru/pickat2/31081.jpg I didn't know that I was comfortable with Microsoft :D. Oops! -- Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307612355.3190.53.camel@debian
Re: [OT] Mice
On 09/06/11 19:39, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 17:21 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] snipped Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K This mouse perhaps fits too my needs. Shit! Is there another vendor, than Microsoft selling the same mouse ;)? I would grasp the nettle and buy a Microsoft one, if I shouldn't find another vendor selling similar mice. The PS/2 mouse were the mouse wheel using Debian doesn't work, seems to be a Microsoft mouse too http://www.comresurs.ru/pickat2/31081.jpg I didn't know that I was comfortable with Microsoft :D. Oops! -- Ralf I can recommend these:- http://www.genius-europe.com/en/produktdetail.php?ID2=23ID=24ID3=56 Definitely work with Linux and BSD. Cheap and they are PS/2. I have some of the Microsoft mice - they're more expensive, have a slightly heavier (less flimsy) body, larger pads on the base, a bit larger, and have a USB connector. They also work just fine with Linux and BSD - no fiddling needed. Both mice only need the following if you use an xorg.conf:- Section InputDevice # generated from default Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/psaux Option Emulate3Buttons no Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 Cheers -- Tuttle? His name's Buttle. There must be some mistake. Mistake? [Chuckles] We don't make mistakes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df0a07a.2070...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 20:29 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 09/06/11 19:39, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 17:21 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] snipped Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K This mouse perhaps fits too my needs. Shit! Is there another vendor, than Microsoft selling the same mouse ;)? I would grasp the nettle and buy a Microsoft one, if I shouldn't find another vendor selling similar mice. The PS/2 mouse were the mouse wheel using Debian doesn't work, seems to be a Microsoft mouse too http://www.comresurs.ru/pickat2/31081.jpg I didn't know that I was comfortable with Microsoft :D. Oops! -- Ralf I can recommend these:- http://www.genius-europe.com/en/produktdetail.php?ID2=23ID=24ID3=56 Definitely work with Linux and BSD. Cheap and they are PS/2. I have some of the Microsoft mice - they're more expensive, have a slightly heavier (less flimsy) body, larger pads on the base, a bit larger, and have a USB connector. They also work just fine with Linux and BSD - no fiddling needed. Both mice only need the following if you use an xorg.conf:- Section InputDevice # generated from default Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/psaux Option Emulate3Buttons no Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 Cheers Thank you :) AFAIK even when using a xorg.conf and I'm using one for the monitor, HAL does the mouse settings, as long as there isn't xserver-xorg-input-mouse installed. Oops, the USB mouse does work although I've got a xorg.conf without mouse settings, but the xserver-xorg-input-mouse driver installed. I set up HAL or what ever, can't remember the file at the moment, when I tried to get the old PS/2 mouse wheel working (of cause I tried xorg.conf for the PS/2 mouse too). I wish to have a wired mouse with a design similar to my old mouse. USB seems to be ok too, no USB is sharing an IRQ with a sound card. I guess both, ball and laser are ok for me. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307616690.3190.68.camel@debian
Re: [OT] Mice
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:21:23 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I use alcohol to clean the ball and internal rollers. But I'm afraid laser based mice get also dirty (bottom surface has also to be cleaned for fast sliding). Once a year. Maybe. Me also... that's more or less the time it takes the ball to be plenty of fluff and to be uncomfortable enough to use. One can live with some dust on it... until you can't move it O:-P But as I said on my previous post to Ron, I can live with them. What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K Logitech has also a bunch of plain mice corded and laser based but... they don't look like my fatty balled mouse :-) Look, do you see the difference? The old model is slightly curved on the top while the modern one is straight: MS Basic Optical Mouse (laser) http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/SkuImages/gallery/large/M17-1733-d1.jpg MS IntelliMouse (ball) http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/SkuImages/gallery/large/M17-1716-f.jpg Anyway, what's the minimum desirable dpi for these devices? I've seen numbers from 300ppp up to 2.000ppp and more... besides, is there any noticeable difference between one tagged as optical and other tagged as optical/laser? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.09.11.02...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
FWIW, the wheel on my PS2 two-button mouse works just fine without any tweaking. The specs are: Manufacturer: Dell DP/N: H2871 0W1668 P/N: 851841- Maybe I missed something along the way in the discussion. All those untrimmed posts and bottom posting were a bit much to deal with . . . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/836531.84712...@web59516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On 06/09/2011 06:02 AM, Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:21:23 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I use alcohol to clean the ball and internal rollers. But I'm afraid laser based mice get also dirty (bottom surface has also to be cleaned for fast sliding). Once a year. Maybe. Me also... that's more or less the time it takes the ball to be plenty of fluff and to be uncomfortable enough to use. One can live with some dust on it... until you can't move it O:-P But as I said on my previous post to Ron, I can live with them. What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K Logitech has also a bunch of plain mice corded and laser based but... they don't look like my fatty balled mouse :-) Look, do you see the difference? The old model is slightly curved on the top while the modern one is straight: I'm left-handed, so the straight one is best for me. -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df0d704.7090...@cox.net
Re: [OT] Mice (was: PS/2 mouse vs USB mouse)
On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +, Camaleón wrote: [cut] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces 2/ I find batteries (even rechargable) a PITA :-) 3/ There are also some security concerns in using wireless for input devices but nowadays I think the data flow between sender and receiver units can be encrypted There's no reason that an optical mouse has to be wireless. Similarly, there's no reason that a wireless mouse has to be optical. I've used wired (USB) optical mice for ages now and love the fact they they never get sticky. I find that ball mice gum up with detritus and you need to give them a good shove to get the ball to move. Optical mice always respond immediately. As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to an arbitrary surface as with modern mice). -- Paul Saunders signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] Mice
On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) Disadvantages of ball mice: 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never? 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless one. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.08.11.16...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice (was: PS/2 mouse vs USB mouse)
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:06:16 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +, Camaleón wrote: [cut] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces 2/ I find batteries (even rechargable) a PITA :-) 3/ There are also some security concerns in using wireless for input devices but nowadays I think the data flow between sender and receiver units can be encrypted There's no reason that an optical mouse has to be wireless. True. But I was replying to a KS post where he was talking about wireless mouse with an USB receiver so the three points I mentioned were on that line. Similarly, there's no reason that a wireless mouse has to be optical. I've used wired (USB) optical mice for ages now and love the fact they they never get sticky. I find that ball mice gum up with detritus and you need to give them a good shove to get the ball to move. Optical mice always respond immediately. I use alcohol to clean the ball and internal rollers. But I'm afraid laser based mice get also dirty (bottom surface has also to be cleaned for fast sliding). But as I said on my previous post to Ron, I can live with them. What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Yes, I'm very picky with my input peripherals :-) As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to an arbitrary surface as with modern mice). He, he... from what century is that piece of hardware? Nineties? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.08.11.32...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón: On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway) but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer (or re-branded ?) technology (darkfield) and works on mirror, glass, all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself), on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the receiver is really tiny. I used to be an anti cordless, because of battery consumption, excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love spaghetti-free desktops. Disadvantages of ball mice: 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never? I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my activities require precision (photo and video editing). 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless one. Greetings, For my desktops I use exclusively trackball/trackman pointing devices, my current is cordless, optical (the sensor reads the movements of the ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a really long time (over a year). Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4def6458.5070...@googlemail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On 08/06/11 20:06, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +, Camale�n wrote: [cut] snipped, sorry Camale�n As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Very Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to an arbitrary surface as with modern mice). I've used those mousepads - after a while the plastic coating wear through and you discover they're toxic (nickel coated). We quickly swapped them for gridded paper sticky taped to the desk instead of black hands and a nasty metallic taste in your mouth. Not saying they'll kill you, but if your zinc levels are low it could make you sick. I've only recently moved to Optical mice because I used to think I had more fine control with a wheel mouse. With the optical mice I use my thumb, the little finger, and the heel of my hand on the desktop to help limit the mouse movement - with a wheel mouse only the heel of my hand used to touch the desk. The grippiness/stickiness of the ball used to give better single pixel movement control for things like graphics. Pushing down on an optical mouse does not allow you to restrict movement the way pushing down on an optical mouse does, as the friction in an optical mouse comes from my hand contacting the desk and the little pads on the base of the mouse - as opposed to the friction generated by the device that actually measures movement. It matters little whether it's a ball, or optics for most desktop applications - except graphics. Where the optical mouse truly excels is when I want to use an external mouse with laptops - works fine on the arm of a chair or my leg. As for wireless mice - I believe the lag of the early models has been reduced, and I don't see how the weight of something I slide, but never lift, would bother me. I don't use one because I'm cheap. ;-p Cheers -- Tuttle? His name's Buttle. There must be some mistake. Mistake? [Chuckles] We don't make mistakes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4def6630.3020...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On 08/06/11 21:32, � wrote: On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:06:16 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +, Camaleón wrote: [cut] snipped As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to an arbitrary surface as with modern mice). He, he... from what century is that piece of hardware? [straight face] Last century. Nineties? I think, technically, the Nineties was a decade - it just seemed longer ;-p Greetings, Cheers -- Tuttle? His name's Buttle. There must be some mistake. Mistake? [Chuckles] We don't make mistakes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4def697a.2020...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:00:24 +0200, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: 08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón: On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway) but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer (or re-branded ?) technology (darkfield) and works on mirror, glass, all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself), on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the receiver is really tiny. I used to be an anti cordless, because of battery consumption, excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love spaghetti-free desktops. Good. I'll have that in mind when I have to ditch my current rolling ball mouse... foreseen at 2020 or so :-) But nowadays the majority of laser based mice lose their eficiency on transparent/reflective surfaces so let's wait the market evolves this situation a bit and more manufacturers embrace that kind of technologies. I don't like to be limited to choose between just two or three mice models made by Logitech ;-) 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never? I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my activities require precision (photo and video editing). Good to know but how many years old is your mouse (2, 5, 10...)? 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless one. For my desktops I use exclusively trackball/trackman pointing devices, my current is cordless, optical (the sensor reads the movements of the ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a really long time (over a year). Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora). When wireless mice batteries last years for a 24-hour usage, I re-think my possition. For now I'll stick to my cables. I have enough for both, wifi and wireless technologies... both still need to be improved a lot. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.08.13.42...@gmail.com
Re: [OT] Mice
08/06/2011 15:42, Camaleón wrote: On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:00:24 +0200, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: 08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón: On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway) but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer (or re-branded ?) technology (darkfield) and works on mirror, glass, all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself), on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the receiver is really tiny. I used to be an anti cordless, because of battery consumption, excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love spaghetti-free desktops. Good. I'll have that in mind when I have to ditch my current rolling ball mouse... foreseen at 2020 or so :-) This is the bad side of those good old technologies, they were build to last forever ! I can't explain (or can explain too well :-( ) that some computers I own are still running on their 10 years old hard drives, when I have to change my sata's nearly every year. Your mouse will never fail, see you 2100 for a universal pointing device hand implant, complete with eternal® nano batteries charged from body-derived magnetic and kinetic energy ! But nowadays the majority of laser based mice lose their eficiency on transparent/reflective surfaces so let's wait the market evolves this situation a bit and more manufacturers embrace that kind of technologies. I don't like to be limited to choose between just two or three mice models made by Logitech ;-) See how devious I am, now you are doing the advertising ;-) . 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never? I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my activities require precision (photo and video editing). Good to know but how many years old is your mouse (2, 5, 10...)? I am a heavy user and usually the buttons give up after a few years, or the plastic/rubber casing starts looking really ugly. I admit I like it fresh too, so none of my actively used pointing devices are older than 5 years (sitting in a box doesn't count, right ?), the two I or my wife use the most are under two years. 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless one. For my desktops I use exclusively trackball/trackman pointing devices, my current is cordless, optical (the sensor reads the movements of the ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a really long time (over a year). Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora). When wireless mice batteries last years for a 24-hour usage, I re-think my possition. For now I'll stick to my cables. I have enough for both, wifi and wireless technologies... both still need to be improved a lot. So says WHO [1]... Greetings, [1] http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/05/who-declares-cellphones-possibly-carcinogenic.ars -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4def8c10.4060...@googlemail.com
Re: [OT] Mice (was: PS/2 mouse vs USB mouse)
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 11:32 +, Camaleón wrote: What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Yes, I'm very picky with my input peripherals :-) +1 As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to an arbitrary surface as with modern mice). He, he... from what century is that piece of hardware? Nineties? An aesthetic faux pas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307559021.2217.375.camel@debian
Re: [OT] Mice
On 06/08/2011 06:16 AM, Camaleón wrote: On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other hostile environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-) Then I use the trackpad on my laptop. Disadvantages of ball mice: 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never? Eh? Recalibrate an optical mouse? Never heard of (or had to do) such a thing. 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless one. What's bluetrack? I agree with not wanting wireless, though. -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4deff499.8070...@cox.net
Re: [OT] Mice
On 06/08/2011 06:32 AM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I use alcohol to clean the ball and internal rollers. But I'm afraid laser based mice get also dirty (bottom surface has also to be cleaned for fast sliding). Once a year. Maybe. But as I said on my previous post to Ron, I can live with them. What happens is that modern mice are a bit ostentatious and full of buttons (or they're targeted to notebook users and are a bit small). Not the Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. It's just... a plain old, boring standard sized mouse. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Basic-Optical-Mouse-Black/dp/B00081N53K -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4deff5e3.9010...@cox.net
Re: [OT] Mice
On 6/8/2011 15:15, Ron Johnson wrote: What's bluetrack? I agree with not wanting wireless, though. Bluetrack in mice is a proprietary Microsoft made tracking method for their optical mice. Physically, they have larger holes for the emitter and the light is blue instead of red. A quick searched turned up this link which gives a basic rundown between Microsoft Bluetrack and Logitech Darkfield: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2351775,00.asp I have a 'notebook' wireless mouse from Microsoft that has Bluetrack and uses one of the 'nano' USB dongles. The battery life is pretty good and when the wireless works, it works pretty well. Bad points would be that the larger sized hole seems to collect more crud than a 'typical' optical mouse would, and occasionally I've had the signal 'go strange' and the mouse not work as it should. However, the tracking is pretty good (I've tested it on beat up metal cigarette tin), and the dongle does work with anything that supports HID's. Minor note on the one I have, the dongle apparently supports mice and keyboards, which has confused a few things at times when they see a new keyboard interface but not a new keyboard to go with it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df04652.9090...@penguinness.org
Re: [OT] Mice (was: PS/2 mouse vs USB mouse)
On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 18:40 +, Camaleón wrote: For intensive usage, heck... leave me with my Cherry corded keyboard with a weight of ~1,8 kg and its characteristic clack, clack sound ;-) I've got two simple and good keyboards, one seems to be a Cherry and the other is better, because it's good + silent. The Cherry (or Cherry like) has got a very old connector and needs an adaptor for PS/2 usage. I don't like the Cherry, but I'm still an old school two finger fast and heavy writer, a relic from the 80's when I programmed in Assembler. Three letters, four numbers, enter, three letters, four numbers, enter. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307473581.2177.119.camel@debian
Re: [OT] Mice
On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. Disadvantages of ball mice: 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. -- Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4dee7bc5.1010...@cox.net
Re: [OT] Mice
On 8 June 2011 05:28, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip] I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice: 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad. Disadvantages of ball mice: 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser mice never get dirty. 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on more surfaces. Balls also wear and cause a perfectly good mouse to become unusable. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion.
