Re: alternatives to gmail?

[황병희]

> [...] it could be of interest to you to take a look at text mail clients, 
> like mutt ou sup.

Also Gnus is not bad, i think...;;;

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[hobie of RMN]

Hi, Karen -

I'm not at all sure this is the solution but I think it's worth considering:

https://safe-mail.net

It offers a few interface designs.  I use the 'Fast' one, which trims away
icons and other graphic niceties.  Since I don't normally use lynx or
elinks, I'm not sure how navigable it is with either of those - I tried
both today and found it awkward, but that may be because of my lack of
familarity with the functioning of those browsers.

I also tried the demo Horde Imp arrangement someone suggested.  My
impression is it works very well with a text browser.  It specifically
offers as a choice a "No Javascript" interface.

--hobie

> Hi folks,
> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even with
> some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all, not via
> basic html in lynx.
> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
> makes the low graphics  even more important.
> I am not in a position to host my own email.
> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently  existing
> gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
> Thanks,
> Karen
>
>

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

My experience of sight loss is not what motivates my use of  a web browser 
to access this account.
Instead, it is that I must, in the course of work and research, direct 
other individuals to this inbox in public places.

Karen


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Curt wrote:


On 2019-11-19, Reco  wrote:


And there's something that escapes me in this thread. If "shell account"
forces OP to use, say, links2 or w3m. Why bother with web-interface to
e-mail at all? e-mail is only good and proper if used from a proper MUA,
be it mutt, pine or gnus.


I seem to remember the OP being visually disabled. Maybe this explains
that somehow, as they say here.


Reco





--
“The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence
is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.”
"Speak, Memory," Vladimir Nabokov

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

On the contrary,
One member provided an article listing email companies, another reminded 
me  that I might consider the  email option provided by  my dsl company 
itself.
All perfectly helpful, and perfectly focused on the single question I 
asked.

so, the thread, or some of it, was most productive indeed.



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, John Hasler wrote:


Karen Lewellen writes:

Nope, do not need webmail software names at all.  just need to visit,
test, and move on. no more, no less.


Then this entire discussion is pointless. No one here has a complete
list of Webmail providers but a Web seach using your favorite search
engine will provide one.  Do a search and start testing.

I would point out that you could use a text mail program such as Mutt to
read your mail via a provider such as Newsguy and still direct other
people to the Webmail interface, but you've not made it clear what you
mean by the latter.  Besides, it's a suggestion and you've made it clear
that you don't want any.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

I have no problem with   that situation.
Better screen on my own leaving open a  possibility I might miss 
otherwise, then eliminate a prospective  option based on a non-common 
dictionary .



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:54, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Nope, do not need webmail software names at all.
just need to visit, test, and move on. no more, no less.


But you do realise that you're going to be seeing the same webmail
software over and over again that way, much of which might not work for you.

Can you see why knowing what webmail software /does/ work for you might
well allow you to shortcut the process of "just need to visit, test, and
move on [and potentially on and on and on and on]"? And that's why I
offered a list of webmail software, as knowing what works for you could
actually be helpful to you in terms of finding the company you need.

Nevertheless, I accept that you only want to do it via testing each
company individually, without learning more about what it is you really
need.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Mark,
neither of the methods you outline are what I choose.
first, let me use dreamhost as an example.
Asking the company in no way shape  or form insures I will learn how a 
company programs fully, because many technicians and customer service 
people work  from a script leaving them less than  qualified to answer.


Then, I may miss companies that actually would have worked by asking. 
after all, in some ways the purpose  of progressive 
site   development is to insure many doors are open to content, without 
having  to think  about the many doors that may be used.
I am not interested in more research then absolutely needful to secure a 
swift solution.
what is more? via my method of visiting a site directly I can discover 
possibilities of places that have kept  the simple interface open, without 
even thinking about people using  low graphics environments for more than 
just getting access to their mail while involving as little  heavy 
graphics as  possible.
My method works for me, it need not, nor do I  ask, that it work for 
another, which is where we clearly differ.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:19, Karen Lewellen wrote:

And as I have said, more than once, is that I am not going to have a
say in, or   a reasonable way to, screen what services provide in
terms of the webmail software they incorporate.


Yes, I have seen you say this several times now. There are two responses.

(a) You don't need to have a say in what companies provide. I've not
suggested anything that would even remotely require this.

(b) Surely you most certainly *do* have a way to "screen what services
provide in terms of the webmail software they incorporate"! This is
basic research. There are two obvious ways to do this: (1) Just ask the
company. (2) Try out a demo or trial account, if the company offers one.

If you ask a company what webmail software they offer and they say that
it is, for example, Horde Imp and you know that Horde Imp works well for
you then all is good. Do you see now why knowing which webmail software
works well for you could be helpful in the search for a company to
provide the service? It would help you screen the offerings from various
companies. (You don't need to get them to change anything; it just helps
you with screening them quickly).

Or if you try a demo/trial account then that too will quickly enough
tell you if what they offer works for you.

Either or both approaches are fine. The more knowledge you have,
generally speaking, the better.


making a list of such software options not productive for my stated
needs.


I can clearly see that it's not the way you want to do it. As I said,
you have a very fixed idea not only your goal but of how you want to
achieve your goal. All the same, I absolutely promise you that knowledge
like this (i.e. what software works for you) would very much help you in
finding a finally working solution.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

because my first post says so smiles.



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, John Hasler wrote:


Why do you have to use Webmail at all?
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[John Hasler]

 Karen Lewellen writes:
> Nope, do not need webmail software names at all.  just need to visit,
> test, and move on. no more, no less.

Then this entire discussion is pointless. No one here has a complete
list of Webmail providers but a Web seach using your favorite search
engine will provide one.  Do a search and start testing.

I would point out that you could use a text mail program such as Mutt to
read your mail via a provider such as Newsguy and still direct other
people to the Webmail interface, but you've not made it clear what you
mean by the latter.  Besides, it's a suggestion and you've made it clear
that you don't want any.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 19:03, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Aside from the lack of practical  processes

Really, there is no real world lack of practical processes.

> a company  might configure their   web interface to be perfectly
> functional for me without using any of these webmail software
> programs, at all.

In the original message in this thread you wrote "I prefer  a low
graphics web interface". It is hardly surprising therefore that you have
had suggestions for webmail, both companies and, in my case, for
software of which knowledge would would assist *you* in find suitable
companies for yourself.

> Therefore my own method of a simple visit is perfectly fine...for me,
> which is  the point.

Ok, I do understand that you are only interested in doing it that way.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:54, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Nope, do not need webmail software names at all.
> just need to visit, test, and move on. no more, no less.

But you do realise that you're going to be seeing the same webmail
software over and over again that way, much of which might not work for you.

Can you see why knowing what webmail software /does/ work for you might
well allow you to shortcut the process of "just need to visit, test, and
move on [and potentially on and on and on and on]"? And that's why I
offered a list of webmail software, as knowing what works for you could
actually be helpful to you in terms of finding the company you need.

Nevertheless, I accept that you only want to do it via testing each
company individually, without learning more about what it is you really
need.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:19, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> And as I have said, more than once, is that I am not going to have a
> say in, or   a reasonable way to, screen what services provide in
> terms of the webmail software they incorporate.

Yes, I have seen you say this several times now. There are two responses.

(a) You don't need to have a say in what companies provide. I've not
suggested anything that would even remotely require this.

(b) Surely you most certainly *do* have a way to "screen what services
provide in terms of the webmail software they incorporate"! This is
basic research. There are two obvious ways to do this: (1) Just ask the
company. (2) Try out a demo or trial account, if the company offers one.

If you ask a company what webmail software they offer and they say that
it is, for example, Horde Imp and you know that Horde Imp works well for
you then all is good. Do you see now why knowing which webmail software
works well for you could be helpful in the search for a company to
provide the service? It would help you screen the offerings from various
companies. (You don't need to get them to change anything; it just helps
you with screening them quickly).

Or if you try a demo/trial account then that too will quickly enough
tell you if what they offer works for you.

Either or both approaches are fine. The more knowledge you have,
generally speaking, the better.

> making a list of such software options not productive for my stated
> needs.

I can clearly see that it's not the way you want to do it. As I said,
you have a very fixed idea not only your goal but of how you want to
achieve your goal. All the same, I absolutely promise you that knowledge
like this (i.e. what software works for you) would very much help you in
finding a finally working solution.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Mark,
Does that mean you  will agree to disagree, allowing the list to move on?
for my part the exchange is over.  Others provided a list of possible 
e-mail companies  which was first, last, and only the goal for information 
here.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:37, Karen Lewellen wrote:


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


What these pieces of software do need is to be hosted somewhere. The
easiest and best way for that to be done is to be hosted by an ISP or
email service provider. In other words, you simply obtain the webmail
service from the service provider of your choice.


No., I have to obtaine email from a service provider who is already
hosting their email  with one of these options, configuring it to run
without JavaScript, and publicly stating in their description of the
email that it  does as much.

Or, I simply try to use the service first, which is far more
productive than my getting  detailed  specifics on the  webmail
software being used.


I'm not sure what you mean here. I seem to be running out of ways to
better explain what I have suggested. You seem to have a very fixed idea
of not only your goal but how you want to go about achieving it. I've
suggested a way to help you achieve your exact goal and I promise you
that what I have suggested is not some massive irrelevance but would
directly and precisely assist you in finding a suitable company.


This email, the one I am replacing, is for research.  meaning I must
be able to direct  people, in public libraries for example, into my inbox.


(a) Yes, what I am suggesting would allow for that.

(b) I would not recommend sharing an inbox or email account like this
but if you want to work this way then so be it. Nothing need change in
that respect.


Best done on a gmail comparative platform, not where I am having stuff
hosted privately or am hosting things privately.


Indeed, I have suggested using a platform that is (roughly) comparable
to Gmail. But only you can really establish what works for you.


I did not mention these details, because there will be a provider who
does what I need.


I agree. I have suggested ways that will assist you in finding such a
provider.


I have a perfectly useless one hosted via dreamhost via their webmail
software, a choice over which I could not influence their
decision...at all.


You are not required to influence their decision.

But here is my point, here is why I offered you a list of webmail
software: You say that Dreamhost's webmail offering is useless. So what
is their webmail software? It's not likely to be any better than the
very same software hosted at another service provider. So by knowing
what webmail software they use you can avoid wasting time testing
providers who host that same webmail software. Do you see now how and
why knowing what webmail software might work well for you will be
directly helpful in more efficiently finding a company whose webmail
offering works well for you?


Knowing my limits means I am not about to try hosting or having
someone else create a hosting structure.


Fair enough. As I said, installing your own choice of webmail software
in a web hosting account should only be seen as a fallback or secondary
approach. I understand it's over-complex for you.

But this still doesn't get away from it being very useful indeed for you
to know what webmail software will work well for you, so that you can
then find a company who hosts it. And that's all I have suggested. As I
also said, it is not mutually exclusive with trying out hosting
providers without first knowing what software they use.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[John Hasler]

Why do you have to use Webmail at all?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:37, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:
>>
>> What these pieces of software do need is to be hosted somewhere. The
>> easiest and best way for that to be done is to be hosted by an ISP or
>> email service provider. In other words, you simply obtain the webmail
>> service from the service provider of your choice.
>
> No., I have to obtaine email from a service provider who is already
> hosting their email  with one of these options, configuring it to run
> without JavaScript, and publicly stating in their description of the 
> email that it  does as much.
>
> Or, I simply try to use the service first, which is far more
> productive than my getting  detailed  specifics on the  webmail
> software being used.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I seem to be running out of ways to
better explain what I have suggested. You seem to have a very fixed idea
of not only your goal but how you want to go about achieving it. I've
suggested a way to help you achieve your exact goal and I promise you
that what I have suggested is not some massive irrelevance but would
directly and precisely assist you in finding a suitable company.

> This email, the one I am replacing, is for research.  meaning I must
> be able to direct  people, in public libraries for example, into my inbox.

(a) Yes, what I am suggesting would allow for that.

(b) I would not recommend sharing an inbox or email account like this
but if you want to work this way then so be it. Nothing need change in
that respect.

> Best done on a gmail comparative platform, not where I am having stuff
> hosted privately or am hosting things privately.

Indeed, I have suggested using a platform that is (roughly) comparable
to Gmail. But only you can really establish what works for you.

> I did not mention these details, because there will be a provider who
> does what I need.

I agree. I have suggested ways that will assist you in finding such a
provider.

> I have a perfectly useless one hosted via dreamhost via their webmail
> software, a choice over which I could not influence their
> decision...at all.

You are not required to influence their decision.

But here is my point, here is why I offered you a list of webmail
software: You say that Dreamhost's webmail offering is useless. So what
is their webmail software? It's not likely to be any better than the
very same software hosted at another service provider. So by knowing
what webmail software they use you can avoid wasting time testing
providers who host that same webmail software. Do you see now how and
why knowing what webmail software might work well for you will be
directly helpful in more efficiently finding a company whose webmail
offering works well for you?

> Knowing my limits means I am not about to try hosting or having
> someone else create a hosting structure.

Fair enough. As I said, installing your own choice of webmail software
in a web hosting account should only be seen as a fallback or secondary
approach. I understand it's over-complex for you.

But this still doesn't get away from it being very useful indeed for you
to know what webmail software will work well for you, so that you can
then find a company who hosts it. And that's all I have suggested. As I
also said, it is not mutually exclusive with trying out hosting
providers without first knowing what software they use.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

not at all.
Aside from the lack of practical  processes,  a company  might configure 
their   web interface to be perfectly functional for me without using any 
of these webmail software programs, at all.
Therefore my own method of a simple visit is perfectly fine...for me, 
which is  the point.



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:44, Karen Lewellen wrote:

i. have. no. interest. in. finding. webmail software!


Yes, you want to find an email hosting company.

*But specifically you need to find an email hosting company that
provides webmail software that works as you need it to*.

Knowing what webmail software works for you would rather help in this,
wouldn't it.

You can try every email hosting company under the sun or you can try
software (and find some you like) and then find a company that hosts it.
The two approaches are not mutually exclusive.


Your method does not provide a firm and absolute way of determining
the presence  of such webmail software.


Actually, yes it does. But it needs you to do some research, just as you
did with Protonmail (as below)!


My own method, which is how I checked out Protonmail,  involved
visiting their   webmail interface via a link from their site..and I
knew swiftly if it was workable, end of investigation.


Exactly! And that is what I have been suggesting, except I have been
suggesting that you do it from the software perspective, thus allowing
you to perhaps more efficiently, more quickly, and more usefully find
companies that actually do host the webmail software that works as you
need it.

Finding out what works (in terms of webmail software) would surely be an
advance on where you are now, as it would then allow you to find email
companies that host it.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

I have no interest in reading the  email account  I am seeking via 
anything at  all whatsoever but a web browser.
Not only for myself, but others who must access the account when I am 
conducting research in public places.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, John Hasler wrote:


Karen Lewellen writes:

yet another reason to find another email provider...


[Ancient news elided]  Of course they read your mail (or rather their
software does).  They are an advertising agency.  Did you think that
they provided Gmail for free as a charity?

Newsguy ( https://acc.newsguy.com/cgi-bin/sub_newsguy_form ) has
provided me with excellent service for more than ten years. $10/month or
$80/year.  They support POP, IMAP, and SMTP using SSL if you so choose.
This means that you can read your mail using Mutt or similar.  They have
SPAM filters which you can disable. They don't enforce any sort of
format: they just forward outgoing mail and buffer incoming mail.  If
you are paranoid about having your incoming mail stored on their servers
install Fetchmail and configure it to fetch your mail periodically.

They have a Webmail interface which you are free to ignore: I do.  They
also carry all available Usenet groups and support NNTP.

Other companies offer similar services.


...not to be confused with a webmail program requiring an email server
I do not have for a computer i do not own running a Linux distribution
I cannot access.


Do you mean that you are not using Linux?
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:

You don't need to have any say in what webmail software they use. But,
due to your specific requirements, the fact remains that you will have
to choose your email hosting company depending on the webmail software
they offer because, as you have already found out, not all webmail
software works as you need it to.


Nope, do not need webmail software names at all.
just need to visit, test, and move on. no more, no less.
Gosh I feel like I am in a Monty Python sketch...or a SUSE book.
laughs,
Karen

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:44, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> i. have. no. interest. in. finding. webmail software!

Yes, you want to find an email hosting company.

*But specifically you need to find an email hosting company that
provides webmail software that works as you need it to*.

Knowing what webmail software works for you would rather help in this,
wouldn't it.

You can try every email hosting company under the sun or you can try
software (and find some you like) and then find a company that hosts it.
The two approaches are not mutually exclusive.

> Your method does not provide a firm and absolute way of determining
> the presence  of such webmail software.

Actually, yes it does. But it needs you to do some research, just as you
did with Protonmail (as below)!

> My own method, which is how I checked out Protonmail,  involved
> visiting their   webmail interface via a link from their site..and I
> knew swiftly if it was workable, end of investigation.

Exactly! And that is what I have been suggesting, except I have been
suggesting that you do it from the software perspective, thus allowing
you to perhaps more efficiently, more quickly, and more usefully find
companies that actually do host the webmail software that works as you
need it.

Finding out what works (in terms of webmail software) would surely be an
advance on where you are now, as it would then allow you to find email
companies that host it.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[John Hasler]

 Karen Lewellen writes:
> yet another reason to find another email provider...

[Ancient news elided]  Of course they read your mail (or rather their
software does).  They are an advertising agency.  Did you think that
they provided Gmail for free as a charity?

Newsguy ( https://acc.newsguy.com/cgi-bin/sub_newsguy_form ) has
provided me with excellent service for more than ten years. $10/month or
$80/year.  They support POP, IMAP, and SMTP using SSL if you so choose.
This means that you can read your mail using Mutt or similar.  They have
SPAM filters which you can disable. They don't enforce any sort of
format: they just forward outgoing mail and buffer incoming mail.  If
you are paranoid about having your incoming mail stored on their servers
install Fetchmail and configure it to fetch your mail periodically.

They have a Webmail interface which you are free to ignore: I do.  They
also carry all available Usenet groups and support NNTP.

Other companies offer similar services.

> ...not to be confused with a webmail program requiring an email server
> I do not have for a computer i do not own running a Linux distribution
> I cannot access.

Do you mean that you are not using Linux?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:40, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Not at all, just answer the question asked...as others have done.

I really have done -- at very considerable length and in detail. :-)


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

i. have. no. interest. in. finding. webmail software!
Your method does not provide a firm and absolute way of determining the 
presence  of such webmail software.
My own method, which is how I checked out Protonmail,  involved visiting 
their   webmail interface via a link from their site..and I knew swiftly 
if it was workable, end of investigation.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:07, Karen Lewellen wrote:

I asked specifically  for email companies, not webmail  software.


 I say this in the nicest possible way but you are quite a hard
person to help. :-)

I do understand that you'd like a list of email companies but a list of
webmail software might very well help you find an email company because,
due to your very specific needs, you need to find a company that
actually does host webmail software that works as you need it to. And
only you are in a position to figure out what webmail software works as
you need it.


While I respect that for some gmail is both a company providing email
services , and one with  its own web interface,  my goal is the former
not the latter .


I understand that you want webmail that just works (within your
requirements), just as it used to with Gmail. As I describe above, I
have provided information that really should help you find software (and
then a company) that will do what you need.


I am not qualified to quiz companies on the interfaces they offer  or
ask that they change  their webmail software for me.


Well, you're better qualified than anyone else since only you know
exactly what your exact needs are and what the exact capabilities of
your web browser software are! You don't need to ask anyone to change
their webmail software. But finding out what webmail software works for
you (via, for example, demo accounts) and then asking email service
providers if they host that software should surely be feasible. If you
work with research assistants (as I understand you do from earlier
comments) then they could even help with this, perhaps?


So, no I am not interested in software, only and specifically email
companies.  Protonmail  would be fine, but the JavaScript they use
does not work.


But, as you have experienced, company suggestions alone aren't
necessarily helpful. You also need to know if their software offerings
do what you need. One way or another, you have to get this information
from somewhere. Hence my linking to a list of webmail software giving
you a chance to do some research (alone or perhaps with assistants) to
help yourself in the search for a company.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:11, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> I am going to have no say whatsoever in the webmail software they use.

You don't need to have any say in what webmail software they use. But,
due to your specific requirements, the fact remains that you will have
to choose your email hosting company depending on the webmail software
they offer because, as you have already found out, not all webmail
software works as you need it to.

To put it another way, people here could provide a list of email hosting
companies but you'd still need to evaluate for yourself (or get someone
to help you) whether or not their webmail software works properly for you.

See also my other longer email just posted.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Not at all, just answer the question asked...as others have done.



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 18:07, Karen Lewellen wrote:

I asked specifically  for email companies, not webmail  software.


 I say this in the nicest possible way but you are quite a hard
person to help. :-)

I do understand that you'd like a list of email companies but a list of
webmail software might very well help you find an email company because,
due to your very specific needs, you need to find a company that
actually does host webmail software that works as you need it to. And
only you are in a position to figure out what webmail software works as
you need it.


While I respect that for some gmail is both a company providing email
services , and one with  its own web interface,  my goal is the former
not the latter .


I understand that you want webmail that just works (within your
requirements), just as it used to with Gmail. As I describe above, I
have provided information that really should help you find software (and
then a company) that will do what you need.


I am not qualified to quiz companies on the interfaces they offer  or
ask that they change  their webmail software for me.


Well, you're better qualified than anyone else since only you know
exactly what your exact needs are and what the exact capabilities of
your web browser software are! You don't need to ask anyone to change
their webmail software. But finding out what webmail software works for
you (via, for example, demo accounts) and then asking email service
providers if they host that software should surely be feasible. If you
work with research assistants (as I understand you do from earlier
comments) then they could even help with this, perhaps?


So, no I am not interested in software, only and specifically email
companies.  Protonmail  would be fine, but the JavaScript they use
does not work.


But, as you have experienced, company suggestions alone aren't
necessarily helpful. You also need to know if their software offerings
do what you need. One way or another, you have to get this information
from somewhere. Hence my linking to a list of webmail software giving
you a chance to do some research (alone or perhaps with assistants) to
help yourself in the search for a company.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 18:07, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> I asked specifically  for email companies, not webmail  software.

 I say this in the nicest possible way but you are quite a hard
person to help. :-)

I do understand that you'd like a list of email companies but a list of
webmail software might very well help you find an email company because,
due to your very specific needs, you need to find a company that
actually does host webmail software that works as you need it to. And
only you are in a position to figure out what webmail software works as
you need it.

> While I respect that for some gmail is both a company providing email
> services , and one with  its own web interface,  my goal is the former
> not the latter .

I understand that you want webmail that just works (within your
requirements), just as it used to with Gmail. As I describe above, I
have provided information that really should help you find software (and
then a company) that will do what you need.

> I am not qualified to quiz companies on the interfaces they offer  or
> ask that they change  their webmail software for me.

Well, you're better qualified than anyone else since only you know
exactly what your exact needs are and what the exact capabilities of
your web browser software are! You don't need to ask anyone to change
their webmail software. But finding out what webmail software works for
you (via, for example, demo accounts) and then asking email service
providers if they host that software should surely be feasible. If you
work with research assistants (as I understand you do from earlier
comments) then they could even help with this, perhaps?

> So, no I am not interested in software, only and specifically email
> companies.  Protonmail  would be fine, but the JavaScript they use
> does not work.

But, as you have experienced, company suggestions alone aren't
necessarily helpful. You also need to know if their software offerings
do what you need. One way or another, you have to get this information
from somewhere. Hence my linking to a list of webmail software giving
you a chance to do some research (alone or perhaps with assistants) to
help yourself in the search for a company.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi again,


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


What these pieces of software do need is to be hosted somewhere. The
easiest and best way for that to be done is to be hosted by an ISP or
email service provider. In other words, you simply obtain the webmail
service from the service provider of your choice.


No., I have to obtaine email from a service provider who is already hosting 
their email  with one of these options, configuring it to run without 
JavaScript, and publicly stating in their description of the  email that 
it

 does as much.

Or, I simply try to use the service first, which is far more productive 
than 
my getting  detailed  specifics on the  webmail software being used.



> ( For the avoidance of doubt, I also mentioned that it is possible to
host webmail software in your own web space or web hosting account. This
is a little more complicated but (a) it still does not require your own
email server, and (b) it can often be setup automatically by web hosting
control panel software like cPanel. Don't get hung up on this and don't
let it scare you. I mention it because it is potentially relevant, not
that you will necessarily have to do it. It should be seen as a fallback
in case you can't find an email service provider that hosts webmail that
does what you need. ).

It is not relevant, because it *is not* an option for me.
It does not scare me, it is *not how* I choose to manage  my 
communications.
This email, the one I am replacing, is for research.  meaning I must be able 
to direct  people, in public libraries for example, into my inbox.
Best done on a gmail comparative platform, not where I am having stuff 
hosted privately or am hosting things privately.  I did not mention these 
details, because there will be a provider who does what I need.
I am well aware that one can find someone somewhere to host  email on a 
hosting account.
I have a perfectly useless one hosted via dreamhost via their webmail 
software, a choice over which I could not influence their decision...at 
all.


Even dreamhost staff could not duplicate the proper configuration of imap 
for an alpine setup hosted on their own platform.   Knowing my limits 
means I am not about to try hosting or having someone else create a 
hosting structure.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

And as I have said, more than once, is that I am not going to have a say 
in, or   a reasonable way to, screen what services provide in terms of the 
webmail software they incorporate.

making a list of such software options not productive for my stated needs.
Karen


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:




On 19/11/2019 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 18 November 2019 17:48:30 Karen Lewellen wrote:

To repost Karen's original plea for help since so many have apparently
miss-interpreted her situation. To me it reads like google changed
something and that shaming them into reversing that change might be the
best fix. But based on my own experience, that is not going to happen.


Hi folks,
One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
not via basic html in lynx.
I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
makes the low graphics  even more important.
I am not in a position to host my own email.
Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently
existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
Thanks,
Karen


For the avoidance of doubt, since my comments appear to have been
misunderstood, I was aware of this earlier thread and all of my comments
here have been made in the context of this request.

Nothing I have suggested requires Karen to host her own email. I was
suggesting what she would need to look for in terms of webmail software
that would be posted by other ISPs/service providers/etc.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

No, you sent  me to a site listing webmail software, which is not an
 specific company, or the suggestion that I seek a specific local company 
for  email.

I am going to have no say whatsoever in the webmail software they use.
Meaning bell.net might or might not work out, but it is a company 
providing   email, not a company writing webmail software.



On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 16:23, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi,




Support your local internet provider or web hoster. Look for a service
that offer a web interface to email based on open source software like
roundcube.


Now, that is a  meaningful suggestion. thank you!


Note that this is what I suggested, just with more detail in my case!


--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

I asked specifically  for email companies, not webmail  software.
While I respect that for some gmail is both a company providing email 
services , and one with  its own web interface,  my goal is the former not 
the latter .  I am not qualified to quiz companies on the interfaces they 
offer  or ask that they change  their webmail software for me.
Truth be told, if I could use a place like mail2web.com with gmail,  that 
would   buy me time.  When I tried though google rejected  the effort.
So, no I am not interested in software, only and specifically email 
companies.  Protonmail  would be fine, but the JavaScript they use does 
not work.

Karen


On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 15:59, Karen Lewellen wrote:

while I respect your perspective,  I stated my specific goals because
I know what  could and could not be possibly managed by me.
I smile when  folks tell  me that over time I will not be able to do
something


To be clear, I'm not saying you can't do it. I am only saying that using
webmail in this way via a shell account is likely to become more
difficult over time. As I also said, however, it is still likely to be
possible with the right webmail software.


So, I know that I can, if I actually get an email provider suggestion
find ways to continue.

[...]

I asked for what I specifically needed, not for, no matter how well
intended, what someone else thinks my goal is in this situation.


The link I provided to a list of alternative webmail software almost
certainly does lead you to exactly what I understand you are looking
for: Webmail that will work without relying on Javascript.

As I said, I haven't personally tested any of the webmail software
mentioned in the list but Reco confirmed that SquirrelMail works fine
without needing Javascript and so it should work ok from a text-mode web
browser via your shell account.

All you need to do is find an ISP or other service provider that can
host SquirrelMail for you. As I say, if I understand your requirement
correctly then this should fulfil it.

In addition: Does anyone know if either Horde Imp or Roundcube work well
without Javascript? I'd have thought that, in practice, both of these
are more likely (than SquirrelMail) to be standard offerings from ISPs
nowadays.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 17:27, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> all of the software  in the article one source offered, requires an
> e-mail server .

No, the software listed at the link I provided
(https://opensource.com/alternatives/gmail) does *not* require that you
have your own email server. The software listed can access your existing
email server via IMAP. (Gmail provides IMAP access).

What these pieces of software do need is to be hosted somewhere. The
easiest and best way for that to be done is to be hosted by an ISP or
email service provider. In other words, you simply obtain the webmail
service from the service provider of your choice.

( For the avoidance of doubt, I also mentioned that it is possible to
host webmail software in your own web space or web hosting account. This
is a little more complicated but (a) it still does not require your own
email server, and (b) it can often be setup automatically by web hosting
control panel software like cPanel. Don't get hung up on this and don't
let it scare you. I mention it because it is potentially relevant, not
that you will necessarily have to do it. It should be seen as a fallback
in case you can't find an email service provider that hosts webmail that
does what you need. ).

I linked to a list of the webmail software that might do what you need
because your requirements are quite exacting. Specifically you need
webmail but it has to use less complex Javascript than Gmail now does
(or use no Javascript at all). Therefore it could be helpful for you to
research what webmail software would work for you. A lot of webmail
software developer sites have demo accounts that you can use to test
whether your web browser can cope successfully. For example, Horde Imp's
demo can be accessed here: http://demo.horde.org/login.php. Some email
service providers also provide demo accounts demonstrating the webmail
software that they provide.

Once you've found webmail software that you know works for you, this
potentially makes it easier for you to find an email service provider or
ISP who hosts it and from whom you can obtain the service.

> I am not in a position to change shell services for example, or dsl
> providers.

No need to change anything like this.

> my ability to Gage  if  the e-mail service  is workable begins and
> ends with   actually testing the address locations involved.

See above for the possibility of demo accounts.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[tv.deb...@googlemail.com]

On 19/11/2019 22:21, ghe wrote:

On 11/19/19 9:16 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:


yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused
with a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a
computer i do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.


Sorry, I misspoke. Protonmail isn't webmail, it's a web based email
client just like Gmail, but with some significant improvements. If you
can use Gmail on a browser, you can use Protonmail on the same browser.

I heard about it in an article on Internet privacy in the New York
Times. For use by us mortals, for sure.



Hi, using Protonmail here (full disclosure: I am a paying customer, no 
other interest/involvement whatsoever in Protonmail), the web interface 
requires javascript for login. There is a "bridge" feature available to 
paid users (in beta for Linux) [1] which can be used to get full 
end-to-end encryption with various mail clients (like Thunderbird) [2].
I don't think it fits the OP goals, but aside from that it is a very 
good encrypted email provider IMHO.
As you can see I find gmail also perfect for publicly available mailing 
lists like this one, or various "garbage" grade mail subscriptions, I'd 
rather have them handle the spam than me...


[1] https://protonmail.com/bridge/install

[2] https://protonmail.com/bridge/thunderbird

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Actually, no.
Protonmail does not work in either links or elinks, as it requires a 
different   configuration of JavaScript.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, ghe wrote:


On 11/19/19 9:16 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:


yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused
with a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a
computer i do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.


Sorry, I misspoke. Protonmail isn't webmail, it's a web based email
client just like Gmail, but with some significant improvements. If you
can use Gmail on a browser, you can use Protonmail on the same browser.

I heard about it in an article on Internet privacy in the New York
Times. For use by us mortals, for sure.

--
Glenn English

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

all of the software  in the article one source offered, requires an e-mail 
server .
While another person  provided a list of actual e-mail companies, which is 
what   I am seeking.
I am not in a position to change shell services for example, or dsl 
providers.
my ability to Gage  if  the e-mail service  is workable begins and ends 
with   actually testing the address locations involved.
Given most  post by putting comments at the bottom, I personally find  it 
more practical to put my comments at the top much of the time.  If a 
comment  does not resonate as referring to you, then ignore it.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 16:16, Karen Lewellen wrote:


yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused
with a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a
computer i do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.


Sorry to butt in here but my impression is that you think I have
suggested this. I did not. I don't think anyone else in this thread did,
either.

I offered you a list of webmail software that you could potentially find
hosted somewhere, i.e. at an ISP, email provider, or other service provider.

The point is that your requirement is quite exacting, so it would be
helpful for you to know what software you are looking for from a service
provider.

At no point did I suggest running a server yourself. That's not needed here.

--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

I should add that (although I did not suggest that Karen should host her
own email) I did mention the possibility of Karen having a webmail
client of her own choice running in a web hosting account. This is not
necessarily the shocking thing that it might sound and it is not the
same as Karen running her own server (which, I re-iterate, I have not
suggested).

Popular web hosting control panel software such as cPanel (used by many
web hosting providers) integrates webmail clients and allows it to be
very easily set up. Unfortunately cPanel dropped support for
SquirrelMail some time ago but they do still support both Roundcube and
Horde Imp. I can well appreciate that Karen might need assistance in
initially setting this up but it is definitely a potentially suitable
solution for Karen's requirements.

It would be easier if she could find some kind of service provider
already running a webmail client that works for her but the above is
also a wholly viable solution for her needs as stated below.


On 19/11/2019 16:50, Mark Rousell wrote:
>
>
> On 19/11/2019 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Monday 18 November 2019 17:48:30 Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>
>> To repost Karen's original plea for help since so many have apparently 
>> miss-interpreted her situation. To me it reads like google changed 
>> something and that shaming them into reversing that change might be the 
>> best fix. But based on my own experience, that is not going to happen.
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
>>> with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
>>> not via basic html in lynx.
>>> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
>>> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
>>> makes the low graphics  even more important.
>>> I am not in a position to host my own email.
>>> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently 
>>> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
>>> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Karen
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, since my comments appear to have been
> misunderstood, I was aware of this earlier thread and all of my
> comments here have been made in the context of this request.
>
> Nothing I have suggested requires Karen to host her own email. I was
> suggesting what she would need to look for in terms of webmail
> software that would be posted by other ISPs/service providers/etc.
>
> -- 
> Mark Rousell
>  
>  
>  

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[David Wright]

Apologies if I mention a facility that you cannot or do not wish to access.

On Tue 19 Nov 2019 at 10:59:26 (-0500), Karen Lewellen wrote:
> while I respect your perspective,  I stated my specific goals because
> I know what  could and could not be possibly managed by me.
> I smile when  folks tell  me that over time I will not be able to do
> something,   I am using  DOS every day for my computing, a task I have
> managed since 1988.
> So, I know that I can, if I actually get an email provider suggestion
> find ways to continue.
> I also know that I cannot, lacking either machine, environment,
> platform, Dsl provider   infrastructure,  Functional Linux
> distribution,  time, or first hand  experience run a cla..at all.
> I asked for what I specifically needed, not for, no matter how well
> intended, what someone else thinks my goal is in this situation.

Your original question was "Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?"

I'm not sure why you think that this is a good place in which to ask.
Most here have probably found a satisfactory solution for themselves,
and might suggest that others use it¹, but their criteria for choosing
it are unlikely to coincide with yours, unless by chance. (Judging
from your timezone, mine would probably be inappropriate, for example.)

This is a mailing list for technical questions about Debian suites
(with varying amounts of latitude tolerated for close relatives).
There are websites that list email service providers in various
jurisdictions, and which give indications of their service levels
and costs etc. Some provide comparative reviews (which is how
I found my provider many years ago). Visiting such sites might be
more fruitful, though you'll still have to apply your own filters
to the information in view of the limitations you listed above.

I don't know how the big providers respond to technical questions
fired at them, particularly when they're free, but good ones should
be able to answer technical questions about their service before
you sign up.

¹ There might even be a bounty for such recommendations when they
  are taken up.

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:
> > On 19/11/2019 06:55, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> > > why?  after I have stated my goal is reading using a web interface
> > > comparative  to  what one finds with gmail?
> > 
> > It seems that the key issue you have is that you want to access your
> > email via webmail (in other words, using a graphical environment which
> > is increasingly dependent on Javascript) via a text-only shell account.
> > This is a niche usage pattern that will only get harder over time to
> > operate successfully (although I fully recognise that you're stuck with it).
> > 
> > However, I'm sure it is still possible to work this way for now. It just
> > requires the right webmail client.
> > 
> > As others have mentioned, there are plenty of open source webmail
> > clients. I'd have thought that some of these can be configured to
> > operate without resorting to Javascript. In addition to the link that
> > Didier provided here is another handy list of open source webmail
> > clients: https://opensource.com/alternatives/gmail.
> > 
> > In particular, SquirrelMail gets a mention on this list. SquirrelMail
> > has seen little development in the last few years and, for that reason,
> > probably doesn't rely much on Javascript (although I cannot be certain
> > as I've not tested it). On the other hand, it may suffer from unpatched
> > security vulnerabilities.
> > 
> > Beyond that, I don't have enough experience of webmail clients to know
> > which ones can be configured to not be dependent on Javascript.
> > Nevertheless, these lists might be a step forward for you.
> > 
> > You'll either need to find an ISP who runs one of webmail clients that
> > you can use or you will need to get a web hosting account that allows
> > you to run one of them privately.

Cheers,
David.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[ghe]

On 11/19/19 9:16 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused
> with a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a
> computer i do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.

Sorry, I misspoke. Protonmail isn't webmail, it's a web based email
client just like Gmail, but with some significant improvements. If you
can use Gmail on a browser, you can use Protonmail on the same browser.

I heard about it in an article on Internet privacy in the New York
Times. For use by us mortals, for sure.

-- 
Glenn English

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 16:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 18 November 2019 17:48:30 Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> To repost Karen's original plea for help since so many have apparently 
> miss-interpreted her situation. To me it reads like google changed 
> something and that shaming them into reversing that change might be the 
> best fix. But based on my own experience, that is not going to happen.
>
>> Hi folks,
>> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
>> with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
>> not via basic html in lynx.
>> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
>> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
>> makes the low graphics  even more important.
>> I am not in a position to host my own email.
>> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently 
>> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
>> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
>> Thanks,
>> Karen

For the avoidance of doubt, since my comments appear to have been
misunderstood, I was aware of this earlier thread and all of my comments
here have been made in the context of this request.

Nothing I have suggested requires Karen to host her own email. I was
suggesting what she would need to look for in terms of webmail software
that would be posted by other ISPs/service providers/etc.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 16:41, Sven Hartge wrote:
>> Do you know if Roundcube works well without Javascript?
> Yes: It does not. Roundcube very heavily uses JavaScript.
>
> Webmail-Frontends which does not use JavaScript for its main
> functionality are (the already mentioned) Squirrelmail and Prayer
> Webmail.

Thanks.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 16:16, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused
> with a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a
> computer i do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.

Sorry to butt in here but my impression is that you think I have
suggested this. I did not. I don't think anyone else in this thread did,
either.

I offered you a list of webmail software that you could potentially find
hosted somewhere, i.e. at an ISP, email provider, or other service provider.

The point is that your requirement is quite exacting, so it would be
helpful for you to know what software you are looking for from a service
provider.

At no point did I suggest running a server yourself. That's not needed here.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 18 November 2019 17:48:30 Karen Lewellen wrote:

To repost Karen's original plea for help since so many have apparently 
miss-interpreted her situation. To me it reads like google changed 
something and that shaming them into reversing that change might be the 
best fix. But based on my own experience, that is not going to happen.

> Hi folks,
> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
> with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
> not via basic html in lynx.
> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
> makes the low graphics  even more important.
> I am not in a position to host my own email.
> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently 
> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
> Thanks,
> Karen


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Sven Hartge]

Mark Rousell  wrote:
> On 19/11/2019 08:34, juh wrote:

>> open source software like roundcube. 

> Do you know if Roundcube works well without Javascript?

Yes: It does not. Roundcube very heavily uses JavaScript.

Webmail-Frontends which does not use JavaScript for its main
functionality are (the already mentioned) Squirrelmail and Prayer
Webmail.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 08:34, juh wrote:
> open source software like roundcube. 

Do you know if Roundcube works well without Javascript?

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 16:23, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
>> Support your local internet provider or web hoster. Look for a service
>> that offer a web interface to email based on open source software like
>> roundcube.
>
> Now, that is a  meaningful suggestion. thank you!

Note that this is what I suggested, just with more detail in my case!


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 15:59, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> while I respect your perspective,  I stated my specific goals because
> I know what  could and could not be possibly managed by me.
> I smile when  folks tell  me that over time I will not be able to do
> something

To be clear, I'm not saying you can't do it. I am only saying that using
webmail in this way via a shell account is likely to become more
difficult over time. As I also said, however, it is still likely to be
possible with the right webmail software.

> So, I know that I can, if I actually get an email provider suggestion
> find ways to continue.
[...]
> I asked for what I specifically needed, not for, no matter how well
> intended, what someone else thinks my goal is in this situation.

The link I provided to a list of alternative webmail software almost
certainly does lead you to exactly what I understand you are looking
for: Webmail that will work without relying on Javascript.

As I said, I haven't personally tested any of the webmail software
mentioned in the list but Reco confirmed that SquirrelMail works fine
without needing Javascript and so it should work ok from a text-mode web
browser via your shell account.

All you need to do is find an ISP or other service provider that can
host SquirrelMail for you. As I say, if I understand your requirement
correctly then this should fulfil it.

In addition: Does anyone know if either Horde Imp or Roundcube work well
without Javascript? I'd have thought that, in practice, both of these
are more likely (than SquirrelMail) to be standard offerings from ISPs
nowadays.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

The article you provide here is excellent.
JavaScript is not actually the  main issue here, I have access to two 
JavaScript  browsers that worked, even with gmail, until  Google decided 
to  run their own proprietary  JavaScript for  more tracking purposes.
Granted I would love it if Elinks got upgraded, but for most of what I 
require  JavaScript to do, which is honestly very little, Elinks is fine 
most of the time.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, didier.gau...@gmail.com wrote:


Hello Karen

A quick web search for "gmail alternatives" gives plenty of answers, for 
example:
https://lifehacker.com/ditch-gmail-with-these-alternatives-1829337583

It is possible, though, that you encounter the same problems (javascript 
support in text-mode browsers) as with gmail.

If it is the case, as others have suggested, it could be of interest to you to 
take a look at text mail clients, like mutt ou sup.

Didier.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi,




Support your local internet provider or web hoster. Look for a service
that offer a web interface to email based on open source software like
roundcube.


Now, that is a  meaningful suggestion. thank you!
Karen



Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jan Ulrich Hasecke

--
Hostsharing eG – die Hosting-Genossenschaft
Souveränität – Nachhaltigkeit – Exzellenz
https://www.hostsharing.net

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi,

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, fsdu39d wrote:


Problem with GMail is that it's constantly reading content of your emails and 
works closely with government agencies to hand over and store your private 
email to them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964


yet another reason to find another email provider, not to be confused with 
a webmail program requiring an email server I do not have for a computer i 
do not own running a Linux distribution I cannot access.


 >

On 2019-11-19 1:12 a.m., Andrea Borgia wrote:


Especially considering that gmail offers IMAP access and Pine, for example, 
works nicely with it :)
Nicely, although the setup is a bit cumbersome.

Il giorno mar 19 nov 2019 alle ore 10:06  ha scritto:


Hello Karen

A quick web search for "gmail alternatives" gives plenty of answers, for 
example:
 https://lifehacker.com/ditch-gmail-with-these-alternatives-1829337583

It is possible, though, that you encounter the same problems (javascript 
support in text-mode browsers) as with gmail.

If it is the case, as others have suggested, it could be of interest to you to 
take a look at text mail clients, like mutt ou sup.

Didier.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[ghe]

On 11/19/19 5:53 AM, fsdu39d wrote:

> Problem with GMail is that it's constantly reading content of your emails and 
> works closely with government agencies to hand over and store your private 
> email to them.

I'm not sure what your goal is, but as fsdu39d posted from, protonmail
might be a possibility.

https://mail.protonmail.com

Developed by folks at CERN (hence the name, I suspect), in Switzerland
(no NSA or Google), webmail (with, unfortunately, Javascript), hard end
to end encryption (if requested and there's a PGP-like system on the
other end to decrypt), free (as in beer, but not as in GNU).

-- 
Glenn English

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

while I respect your perspective,  I stated my specific goals because I 
know what  could and could not be possibly managed by me.
I smile when  folks tell  me that over time I will not be able to do 
something,   I am using  DOS every day for my computing, a task I have 
managed since 1988.
So, I know that I can, if I actually get an email provider suggestion find 
ways to continue.
I also know that I cannot, lacking either machine, environment, platform, 
Dsl provider   infrastructure,  Functional Linux distribution,  time, or first 
hand  experience run a 
cla..at all.
I asked for what I specifically needed, not for, no matter how well 
intended, what someone else thinks my goal is in this situation.




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 19/11/2019 06:55, Karen Lewellen wrote:

why?  after I have stated my goal is reading using a web interface
comparative  to  what one finds with gmail?


It seems that the key issue you have is that you want to access your
email via webmail (in other words, using a graphical environment which
is increasingly dependent on Javascript) via a text-only shell account.
This is a niche usage pattern that will only get harder over time to
operate successfully (although I fully recognise that you're stuck with it).

However, I'm sure it is still possible to work this way for now. It just
requires the right webmail client.

As others have mentioned, there are plenty of open source webmail
clients. I'd have thought that some of these can be configured to
operate without resorting to Javascript. In addition to the link that
Didier provided here is another handy list of open source webmail
clients: https://opensource.com/alternatives/gmail.

In particular, SquirrelMail gets a mention on this list. SquirrelMail
has seen little development in the last few years and, for that reason,
probably doesn't rely much on Javascript (although I cannot be certain
as I've not tested it). On the other hand, it may suffer from unpatched
security vulnerabilities.

Beyond that, I don't have enough experience of webmail clients to know
which ones can be configured to not be dependent on Javascript.
Nevertheless, these lists might be a step forward for you.

You'll either need to find an ISP who runs one of webmail clients that
you can use or you will need to get a web hosting account that allows
you to run one of them privately.


--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[David Wright]

On Tue 19 Nov 2019 at 09:34:01 (+0100), juh wrote:
> Am 18.11.19 um 23:48 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
[…]
> > Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
> 
> Support your local internet provider or web hoster. Look for a service
> that offer a web interface to email based on open source software like
> roundcube.

Decoupling your ISP from your web/email provider can simplify things
in the future if your circumstances change. (Likewise owning a domain.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Curt]

On 2019-11-19, Reco  wrote:
>
> And there's something that escapes me in this thread. If "shell account"
> forces OP to use, say, links2 or w3m. Why bother with web-interface to
> e-mail at all? e-mail is only good and proper if used from a proper MUA,
> be it mutt, pine or gnus.

I seem to remember the OP being visually disabled. Maybe this explains
that somehow, as they say here.

> Reco
>
>


-- 
“The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence
is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.” 
"Speak, Memory," Vladimir Nabokov

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Reco]

Hi.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 01:00:03PM +, Mark Rousell wrote:
> In particular, SquirrelMail gets a mention on this list. SquirrelMail
> has seen little development in the last few years and, for that reason,
> probably doesn't rely much on Javascript

In fact, SquirrelMail is perfectly usable without any Javascript at all.
I still have to use the thing from time to time, works like a charm in
w3m browser.


And there's something that escapes me in this thread. If "shell account"
forces OP to use, say, links2 or w3m. Why bother with web-interface to
e-mail at all? e-mail is only good and proper if used from a proper MUA,
be it mutt, pine or gnus.

Reco

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[tony]

On 19/11/2019 14:00, Mark Rousell wrote:
> On 19/11/2019 06:55, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> why?  after I have stated my goal is reading using a web interface
>> comparative  to  what one finds with gmail?
> 
> It seems that the key issue you have is that you want to access your
> email via webmail (in other words, using a graphical environment which
> is increasingly dependent on Javascript) via a text-only shell account.
> This is a niche usage pattern that will only get harder over time to
> operate successfully (although I fully recognise that you're stuck with it).
> 
> However, I'm sure it is still possible to work this way for now. It just
> requires the right webmail client.
> 
> As others have mentioned, there are plenty of open source webmail
> clients. I'd have thought that some of these can be configured to
> operate without resorting to Javascript. In addition to the link that
> Didier provided here is another handy list of open source webmail
> clients: https://opensource.com/alternatives/gmail.
> 
> In particular, SquirrelMail gets a mention on this list. SquirrelMail
> has seen little development in the last few years and, for that reason,
> probably doesn't rely much on Javascript (although I cannot be certain
> as I've not tested it). On the other hand, it may suffer from unpatched
> security vulnerabilities.
> 
> Beyond that, I don't have enough experience of webmail clients to know
> which ones can be configured to not be dependent on Javascript.
> Nevertheless, these lists might be a step forward for you.
> 
> You'll either need to find an ISP who runs one of webmail clients that
> you can use or you will need to get a web hosting account that allows
> you to run one of them privately.
> 


SquirrelMail has not been supported by Debian since Jessie. RoundCube is
now the preferred webmail client.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[fsdu39d]

Problem with GMail is that it's constantly reading content of your emails and 
works closely with government agencies to hand over and store your private 
email to them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964

On 2019-11-19 1:12 a.m., Andrea Borgia wrote:

> Especially considering that gmail offers IMAP access and Pine, for example, 
> works nicely with it :)
> Nicely, although the setup is a bit cumbersome.
>
> Il giorno mar 19 nov 2019 alle ore 10:06  ha scritto:
>
>> Hello Karen
>>
>> A quick web search for "gmail alternatives" gives plenty of answers, for 
>> example:
>>  https://lifehacker.com/ditch-gmail-with-these-alternatives-1829337583
>>
>> It is possible, though, that you encounter the same problems (javascript 
>> support in text-mode browsers) as with gmail.
>>
>> If it is the case, as others have suggested, it could be of interest to you 
>> to take a look at text mail clients, like mutt ou sup.
>>
>> Didier.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 19/11/2019 06:55, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> why?  after I have stated my goal is reading using a web interface
> comparative  to  what one finds with gmail?

It seems that the key issue you have is that you want to access your
email via webmail (in other words, using a graphical environment which
is increasingly dependent on Javascript) via a text-only shell account.
This is a niche usage pattern that will only get harder over time to
operate successfully (although I fully recognise that you're stuck with it).

However, I'm sure it is still possible to work this way for now. It just
requires the right webmail client.

As others have mentioned, there are plenty of open source webmail
clients. I'd have thought that some of these can be configured to
operate without resorting to Javascript. In addition to the link that
Didier provided here is another handy list of open source webmail
clients: https://opensource.com/alternatives/gmail.

In particular, SquirrelMail gets a mention on this list. SquirrelMail
has seen little development in the last few years and, for that reason,
probably doesn't rely much on Javascript (although I cannot be certain
as I've not tested it). On the other hand, it may suffer from unpatched
security vulnerabilities.

Beyond that, I don't have enough experience of webmail clients to know
which ones can be configured to not be dependent on Javascript.
Nevertheless, these lists might be a step forward for you.

You'll either need to find an ISP who runs one of webmail clients that
you can use or you will need to get a web hosting account that allows
you to run one of them privately.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Andrea Borgia]

Especially considering that gmail offers IMAP access and Pine, for example,
works nicely with it :)
Nicely, although the setup is a bit cumbersome.

Il giorno mar 19 nov 2019 alle ore 10:06  ha
scritto:

> Hello Karen
>
> A quick web search for "gmail alternatives" gives plenty of answers, for
> example:
>  https://lifehacker.com/ditch-gmail-with-these-alternatives-1829337583
>
> It is possible, though, that you encounter the same problems (javascript
> support in text-mode browsers) as with gmail.
>
> If it is the case, as others have suggested, it could be of interest to
> you to take a look at text mail clients, like mutt ou sup.
>
> Didier.
>
>

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[didier . gaumet]

Hello Karen

A quick web search for "gmail alternatives" gives plenty of answers, for 
example:
 https://lifehacker.com/ditch-gmail-with-these-alternatives-1829337583

It is possible, though, that you encounter the same problems (javascript 
support in text-mode browsers) as with gmail.

If it is the case, as others have suggested, it could be of interest to you to 
take a look at text mail clients, like mutt ou sup.

Didier.

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[juh]

Am 18.11.19 um 23:48 schrieb Karen Lewellen:
> Hi folks,
> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even with
> some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all, not via
> basic html in lynx.
> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally makes
> the low graphics  even more important.
> I am not in a position to host my own email.
> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently 
> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
> Thanks,
> Karen
> 

Support your local internet provider or web hoster. Look for a service
that offer a web interface to email based on open source software like
roundcube.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jan Ulrich Hasecke

-- 
Hostsharing eG – die Hosting-Genossenschaft
Souveränität – Nachhaltigkeit – Exzellenz
https://www.hostsharing.net

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

why?  after I have stated my goal is reading using a web interface 
comparative  to  what one finds with gmail?




On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, john doe wrote:


On 11/19/2019 2:06 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

For now  the web access is a zenith.
I use a shell service exclusively for the internet.
Therefore creating a setup outside of this is not possible.
Karen


On Mon, 18 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 18/11/2019 22:48, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi folks,
One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
not via basic html in lynx.
I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
makes the low graphics  even more important.
I am not in a position to host my own email.
Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently
existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
Thanks,
Karen


How about Thunderbird? I.e. Instead of a webmail client, use a local
mail client accessing your mailbox via IMAP.

Sooner or later, all webmail clients are going to be utterly dependent
on Javascript.


-- 
Mark Rousell









I would look at Mutt for the CLI or other CLI mail client.

--
John Doe

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[john doe]

On 11/19/2019 2:06 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> For now  the web access is a zenith.
> I use a shell service exclusively for the internet.
> Therefore creating a setup outside of this is not possible.
> Karen
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:
>
>> On 18/11/2019 22:48, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
>>> with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
>>> not via basic html in lynx.
>>> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
>>> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
>>> makes the low graphics  even more important.
>>> I am not in a position to host my own email.
>>> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently
>>> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
>>> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Karen
>>
>> How about Thunderbird? I.e. Instead of a webmail client, use a local
>> mail client accessing your mailbox via IMAP.
>>
>> Sooner or later, all webmail clients are going to be utterly dependent
>> on Javascript.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mark Rousell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

I would look at Mutt for the CLI or other CLI mail client.

--
John Doe

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Karen Lewellen]

For now  the web access is a zenith.
I use a shell service exclusively for the internet.
Therefore creating a setup outside of this is not possible.
Karen


On Mon, 18 Nov 2019, Mark Rousell wrote:


On 18/11/2019 22:48, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi folks,
One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
not via basic html in lynx.
I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
makes the low graphics  even more important.
I am not in a position to host my own email.
Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently
existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
Thanks,
Karen


How about Thunderbird? I.e. Instead of a webmail client, use a local
mail client accessing your mailbox via IMAP.

Sooner or later, all webmail clients are going to be utterly dependent
on Javascript.


--
Mark Rousell

Re: alternatives to gmail?

[Mark Rousell]

On 18/11/2019 22:48, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Hi folks,
> One of my gmail accounts is no longer accessible, not in links even
> with some JavaScript.  Not in elinks with the same, and most of all,
> not via basic html in lynx.
> I use this account for research, meaning I prefer  a low graphics web
> interface. I am using a screen reader which also for me personally
> makes the low graphics  even more important.
> I am not in a position to host my own email.
> Whatever I choose, I hope to manage forwarding of the presently 
> existing gmail address.  Moving content a plus.
> Anyone have a suggestion for an email service?
> Thanks,
> Karen

How about Thunderbird? I.e. Instead of a webmail client, use a local
mail client accessing your mailbox via IMAP.

Sooner or later, all webmail clients are going to be utterly dependent
on Javascript.


-- 
Mark Rousell