Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 08:11:45AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? Yeah, I see it too. Add: ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback to daedalus's httpd.conf. I added it via .htaccess to docs-2.0 in httpd.apache.org and it respected the LanguagePriority. I'm trying to dig through mod_negotiation to see why it isn't returning MultipleVariants or NoAcceptableVariants. OtherBill? -- justin
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 08:11:45AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > Yeah, I see it too. Add: > > ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback > > to daedalus's httpd.conf. I added it via .htaccess to docs-2.0 > in httpd.apache.org and it respected the LanguagePriority ...so are we saying the config file suddenly went bad? It's possible, but I doubt it. Greg
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > Brian > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:05:58 -0600 > From: Adam Hupp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs > > I get french for /docs, and german for /docs/mod/directives.html. I got English for both, then reconfigured Netscape (Edit preferences...Navigator...Languages) and removed English (the only language I had). Then I got Japanese for both. Cute! I'm guessing it's been doing this for ages, but most people have some language configured in their browser, which explains why we haven't heard of this before. I'll check with 2_0_28 after I finish testing the JRE_1 tarball + prefork patch. Greg
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Greg Ames wrote: > Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > > > > On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 08:11:45AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > > > > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > > > Yeah, I see it too. Add: > > > > ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback > > > > to daedalus's httpd.conf. I added it via .htaccess to docs-2.0 > > in httpd.apache.org and it respected the LanguagePriority > > ...so are we saying the config file suddenly went bad? It's possible, but I > doubt it. The config files are wrong; they should have ForceLanguagePriority. BUT... This does not explain the problem. In the absence of ForceLanguagePriority, apache should do the following: 1) If no Accept-Language: Use LanguagePriority. 2) If Accept-Language doesn't match with available language: Return "No Acceptable Variant". It shouldn't be returning Japanese in any case unless Japaenese is preffered in the Accept-Language or by LanguagePriority. So we shouldn't just patch httpd.conf. We need to figure out what is going wrong. Joshua.
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
Greg Ames wrote: > > Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > > > Brian > > > > -- Forwarded message -- > > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:05:58 -0600 > > From: Adam Hupp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs > > > > I get french for /docs, and german for /docs/mod/directives.html. > > I got English for both, then reconfigured Netscape (Edit > preferences...Navigator...Languages) and removed English (the only language I > had). Then I got Japanese for both. Cute! > > I'm guessing it's been doing this for ages ummm, no. 2_0_28 returns English with no language configured in Netscape. It doesn't have ForceLanguagePriority in the config file either. Greg
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 12:02:18PM -0500, Joshua Slive wrote: > The config files are wrong; they should have ForceLanguagePriority. rbb and I agree that "ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback" should be the default. It defaults to "None" right now. OtherBill added this a few months ago (?) when he did some changes to mod_negotiation. He *did* add "Prefer Fallback" to the httpd-std.conf files, so it's obvious he intended this to be the default. No one updated daedalus to match. As I tried to show, just by adding "ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback" to docs-2.0 fixes our problem. > BUT... This does not explain the problem. In the absence of > ForceLanguagePriority, apache should do the following: Well, taking a look at the code, I'm not entirely sure we're doing the wrong thing. I believe OtherBill was trying to ensure that we could never return the "wrong" thing unless the admin told us otherwise. Previously, we would return .html as the best language. That's a complete and total hack that we *must* get rid of. It was the wrong thing to do. This is how I see it: Prefer is used to avoid cases where we would send MULTIPLE_CHOICES or we do not have enough information to make a good determination about which language to use. So, we'll use LanguagePriority to determine what is best. (As we'll see in a second, otherwise, we'll use C-L to determine the best variant.) Fallback is used when we have no acceptable variants listed that match and would return NOT_ACCEPTABLE. We'll try to have a "fallback" choice to prevent that from occurring. Again, we'll use LanguagePriority to determine the "best" choice. > 1) If no Accept-Language: Use LanguagePriority. In this case, this is only used when "ForceLanguagePriority" is set to Prefer. Look at mod_negotiation.c:set_language_quality(). On browsers that don't send Accept-Language headers, we can't use any heuristics, so we avoid making any determination as to the quality of the variant. However, we have a failsafe here: "Prefer" in ForceLanguagePriority. If "ForceLanguagePriority" is set to Prefer and we haven't computed its language priority (and in the case of no Accept-Language we definitely haven't set lang_index), we'll go through and compute lang_index based on LanguagePriority listed in httpd.conf. When we go through all variants in best_match() and call is_variant_better(), one of the factors is lang_index. However, if Prefer isn't set and we didn't receive Accept-Language, lang_index is -1 for *all* variants. So, they would all match. And, indeed, with our manuals, that is really the only distinction we have available when we don't have an Accept-Language. Therefore, the determining factor once again is content-length. And, french has the smallest size of all the docs: jerenkrantz@daedalus% ls -l /www/httpd.apache.org/docs/index.html.* -rw-rw-r-- 1 slive httpd 9266 Dec 2 11:46 index.html.en -rw-r--r-- 1 rbowen httpd 8603 Oct 7 18:41 index.html.fr -rw-r--r-- 1 rbowen httpd 156 Oct 7 18:41 index.html.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 slive httpd 9504 Dec 30 08:07 index.html.ja.jis (Notice our friend .html.html which has been relegated to outcast.) jerenkrantz@daedalus% ls -l /www/httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/index.html* -rw-rw-r-- 1 slive httpd 9334 Dec 3 10:38 index.html.en -rw-rw-r-- 1 jwoolley httpd 8223 Sep 22 17:29 index.html.fr -rw-rw-r-- 1 slive httpd 5614 Dec 13 13:42 index.html.ja.jis (See why Japanese would be returned for Apache 2.0 docs, but I added FLP to the .htaccess file on daedalus, so we'll respect LangPriority.) > 2) If Accept-Language doesn't match with available language: Return "No > Acceptable Variant". I believe this could occur if Accept-Language is sent. In the cases we're seeing, that's not the case as no Accept-Language is sent. And, indeed, this is what Fallback is for. Fallback should deal with the case that we don't want to return HTTP_NOT_ACCEPTABLE if their Accept-Language doesn't match. > So we shouldn't just patch httpd.conf. We need to figure out what is > going wrong. I believe nothing is wrong. I believe it is working as intended. Fix the config file, and move on. I will attempt to commit a change that makes PREFER and FALLBACK the default for ForceLangPriority in the code, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to commit that. OtherBill may beat me to that. (I believe he is taking a well-deserved vacation this weekend.) -- justin
RE: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
> Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > > > > On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 08:11:45AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > > > > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > > > Yeah, I see it too. Add: > > > > ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback > > > > to daedalus's httpd.conf. I added it via .htaccess to docs-2.0 > > in httpd.apache.org and it respected the LanguagePriority > > ...so are we saying the config file suddenly went bad? It's possible, but > I > doubt it. OtherBill committed code that changed how mod_negotiations works, so yes, the config file went bad when we bumped to this version of Apache. As it happens, this is also a bug in the code, because the default is wrong, but the simple fix right now is to fix the config file. Ryan
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 02:45:41PM -0500, Greg Ames wrote: > ummm, no. 2_0_28 returns English with no language configured in Netscape. It > doesn't have ForceLanguagePriority in the config file either. wrowe added FLP in revision 1.86 of mod_negotiation: revision 1.86 date: 2001/12/30 04:14:20; author: wrowe; state: Exp; lines: +77 -73 Introduce the ForceLanguagePriority options; Prefer will circumvent a Multiple Choices by electing the first matching language from the LanaguagePriority list. Fallback will circumvent a None Acceptable by electing the first language found from the LanaguagePriority list. This breaks [expectedly] the negotiation tests. They need review. My test results will be posted to dev. 2.0.28 has revision 1.84, so this is expected. And, I think that 2.0.28 might be serving .html.html. =) I believe this change makes our behavior better and makes us more configurable. -- justin
RE: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
> > So we shouldn't just patch httpd.conf. We need to figure out what is > > going wrong. > > I believe nothing is wrong. > > I believe it is working as intended. Fix the config file, and > move on. I will attempt to commit a change that makes PREFER > and FALLBACK the default for ForceLangPriority in the code, but > I'm not sure when I'll be able to commit that. OtherBill may > beat me to that. (I believe he is taking a well-deserved > vacation this weekend.) -- justin I agree 100% with everything Justin said. The only bug in the code is that we have a default in the standard config file that doesn't match the default in the code. My boss keeps trying to convince me that it is a bug if the software doesn't "just work" with an empty config file. While I'm not sure I am at that point, I do believe that it is a bug if we have a default in the standard config that isn't a default in the code itself. Ryan
RE: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Ryan Bloom wrote: > I agree 100% with everything Justin said. The only bug in the code is > that we have a default in the standard config file that doesn't match > the default in the code. My boss keeps trying to convince me that it > is a bug if the software doesn't "just work" with an empty config > file. While I'm not sure I am at that point, I do believe that it is a > bug if we have a default in the standard config that isn't a default > in the code itself. Ryan I meant to comment on this point too. The reason that the default for ForceLanguagePriority is "none" is that this gives the behavior closest to 1.3 and closest to the intentions of the HTTP/1.1 spec. (Although on the latter front, I'm not too sure.) I agree that it is confusing when the default config differs from the server default, but this is far from the only case for that. On the other hand, I won't object if you want to change the default. However, I still believe (strongly) that the behavior with "ForceLanguagePriority none" is wrong in the case of no Accept-Language and should be fixed. Joshua.
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
From: "Joshua Slive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 11:02 AM > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Greg Ames wrote: > > > ...so are we saying the config file suddenly went bad? It's possible, but I > > doubt it. > > The config files are wrong; they should have ForceLanguagePriority. > > BUT... This does not explain the problem. In the absence of > ForceLanguagePriority, apache should do the following: > > 1) If no Accept-Language: Use LanguagePriority. Bingo. It's been so long since I hadn't looked at this; I've had brain freeze. [20 hour days with 4 hours rest haven't helped either - revisiting some priorities over this weekend I expect will help - at least help me.] That is not, in fact, what ForceLanguagePriority NONE should accomplish. I got stuck figuring out the implementation - the others worked so I had proceeded up to this issue. If the express no language preference, and we have ten available languages, and the administrator configures ForceLanguagePriority None - the available variants aught to be displayed. [It would be _really_ cool to have a HTTP_MULTIPLE_CHOICES.html that provides a single comment on how to toggle the language list for some common browsers :) > 2) If Accept-Language doesn't match with available language: Return "No > Acceptable Variant". With None you are correct. Let me point out we can assign any reasonable default for the ForceLanguagePriority options until the admin overrides them. ForceLanguagePriority Default would be one good start.
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: > 1.3 sent the admin's choice. 2.0 should be able to do either, but default to > sending the admin's choice. > > Make sense? OK. That's fine with me. Joshua.
Re: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs (fwd)
Adam, There was a code change related to a new httpd 2.0 config directive, ForceLanguagePriority, that caused the strange language behavior you noticed. It seems the new directive doesn't have an appropriate default setting. I have temporarily changed apache.org's config file to compensate, so you should see English once again when your browser doesn't have another language configured. Thanks for reporting this problem, and our apologies for any inconvenience. Greg Ames --- Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > Heh, anyone want to check this out? > > Brian > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:05:58 -0600 > From: Adam Hupp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Random languages for httpd.apache.org/docs > > I get french for /docs, and german for /docs/mod/directives.html. > > -Adam
