So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Rob Weir]

Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?

-Rob

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[jan i]

On 7 February 2014 18:08, Rob Weir  wrote:

> Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
> website issues to actually report website issues?
>
> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>
> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>
+1

rgds
jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Donald Whytock]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
> website issues to actually report website issues?
>
> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>
> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>
>
I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.  I
assume it leads to a form?

Maybe there should be a button/link above the form that says, "If this is a
problem with OpenOffice rather than this website, click here".  Something
that takes them to a different form where they put in OS, system memory,
and (for all those "my copy has bloatware!" complaints) where they got OO
from.

Don

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Andrea Pescetti]

Rob Weir wrote:

Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
website issues to actually report website issues?


We get a mix of correct submissions (i.e., website stuff) and ultra-FAQs 
(restore windows).


I guess this is due to the fact that ultra-FAQs are so frequent that 
even if 10 out of 10 first-page search result for "openoffice restore 
windows" do indeed describe how to fix the problem, there is still 
someone left who will try to contact us instead of simply solving the 
problem, and in doing so he will find the dev mailing list link post here.


Maybe we can add a link just above the "Reporting a problem" link saying 
that they should read the Release Notes and check if the problem is 
known? But the page is already full of good links for this...



Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


I'm not sure this will work. We also got several minor broken link 
reports that we wouldn't have received if the person had to create a 
Bugzilla account to this purpose.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock 
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
> >> website issues to actually report website issues?
> >>
> >> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
> >> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
> >> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
> >>
> >> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
> >>
> >>
> > I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.  I
> > assume it leads to a form?
> >
>
> In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
> link.  That loads this page:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
>
> Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
> from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
> questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
> says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
> then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
> issues.
>
> I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.
>
> -Rob
>

maybe they're picking up the first thing they see that says "mailing list"

How about if we change --

If you are a user and need technical support...

to
If you are a user and need help with Apache OpenOffice...


and change --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum . Other support mechanisms,
including FAQs, a users mailing list, commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page .


to --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum .

Or contact the users mailing list . (we need
some kind of subject here)

Other support mechanisms, including FAQs,  commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page .


I think BZ is too complicated for a lot of the questions we seem to be
getting through this link.




> > Maybe there should be a button/link above the form that says, "If this
> is a
> > problem with OpenOffice rather than this website, click here".  Something
> > that takes them to a different form where they put in OS, system memory,
> > and (for all those "my copy has bloatware!" complaints) where they got OO
> > from.
> >
> > Don
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Donald Whytock]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock 
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
> >> website issues to actually report website issues?
> >>
> >> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
> >> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
> >> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
> >>
> >> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
> >>
> >>
> > I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.  I
> > assume it leads to a form?
> >
>
> In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
> link.  That loads this page:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
>
> Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
> from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
> questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
> says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
> then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
> issues.
>
> I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.
>
> -Rob
>
>
Yeah...I'd been assuming it was just too easy an option, but looking at
that page...I got nuthin'.

Unless you want to take the Douglas Adams approach...put the link on a
local copy of the webpage stored on a laptop in a filing cabinet in the
basement with a "Beware of the Leopard" sign.  But that doesn't really
stimulate community...

Don

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/07/2014 06:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
website issues to actually report website issues?


Of course, since the beginning. ;-)


I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


How do you want to separate them from the usual user requests?
If you think about a simple link change, then they will appear in BZ. 
But this won't really help.


Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
>> Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
>> website issues to actually report website issues?
>>
>> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
>> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
>> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>>
>> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>>
>>
> I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.  I
> assume it leads to a form?
>

In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
link.  That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.

-Rob

> Maybe there should be a button/link above the form that says, "If this is a
> problem with OpenOffice rather than this website, click here".  Something
> that takes them to a different form where they put in OS, system memory,
> and (for all those "my copy has bloatware!" complaints) where they got OO
> from.
>
> Don

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/07/2014 07:29 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Rob Weir wrote:

Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
website issues to actually report website issues?


We get a mix of correct submissions (i.e., website stuff) and ultra-FAQs
(restore windows).

I guess this is due to the fact that ultra-FAQs are so frequent that
even if 10 out of 10 first-page search result for "openoffice restore
windows" do indeed describe how to fix the problem, there is still
someone left who will try to contact us instead of simply solving the
problem, and in doing so he will find the dev mailing list link post here.

Maybe we can add a link just above the "Reporting a problem" link saying
that they should read the Release Notes and check if the problem is
known? But the page is already full of good links for this...


Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


I'm not sure this will work. We also got several minor broken link
reports that we wouldn't have received if the person had to create a
Bugzilla account to this purpose.


I also don't like to send users to BZ with just a report about broken links.

Furthermore, how to differenciate them from the others which want 
support? Via the links on the "contact_us" webpage it doesn't work well 
- it seems.


Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:


Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?



I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.  I
assume it leads to a form?



In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
link.  That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.


OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for 
website issues. This is failing as we can see.


What about to try the opposite way:

- Remove the text and link.
- Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will 
succeed).
- And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other 
mails got redirected to this ML already.


As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the 
number of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.


So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

> Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>
>  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
 website issues to actually report website issues?

 I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
 link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
 non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

 Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


  I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.
>>>  I
>>> assume it leads to a form?
>>>
>>>
>> In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
>> link.  That loads this page:
>>
>> http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
>>
>> Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
>> from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
>> questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
>> says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
>> then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
>> issues.
>>
>> I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.
>>
>
> OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
> issues. This is failing as we can see.
>
> What about to try the opposite way:
>
> - Remove the text and link.
> - Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
> succeed).
> - And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
> mails got redirected to this ML already.
>
> As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the number
> of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.
>
> So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?
>
> Marcus


These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing the
correct link to report Web site problems.


>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock

  wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir   wrote:

  Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report

website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


  I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it here.

  I
assume it leads to a form?



In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
link.  That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.



OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
issues. This is failing as we can see.

What about to try the opposite way:

- Remove the text and link.
- Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
succeed).
- And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
mails got redirected to this ML already.

As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the number
of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.

So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?

Marcus



These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing the
correct link to report Web site problems.


OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.

For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with 
problems. Everything is there.


Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Rob Weir]

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>>
>>>   On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock

   wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir   wrote:
>
>   Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
>>
>> website issues to actually report website issues?
>>
>> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
>> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
>> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>>
>> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>>
>>
>>   I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
>> here.
>
>   I
> assume it leads to a form?
>
>
 In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
 link.  That loads this page:

 http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

 Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
 from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
 questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
 says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
 then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
 issues.

 I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.

>>>
>>> OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
>>> issues. This is failing as we can see.
>>>
>>> What about to try the opposite way:
>>>
>>> - Remove the text and link.
>>> - Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
>>> succeed).
>>> - And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
>>> mails got redirected to this ML already.
>>>
>>> As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
>>> number
>>> of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.
>>>
>>> So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>> These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
>> information
>> on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
>> being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
>> account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
>> the
>> correct link to report Web site problems.
>
>
> OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.
>

I wonder... do all users know what "technical support" means?   Maybe
less technical users are not familiar with that term?  That would
explain why some might miss that first section of the contact page.
Maybe say, "If you need help with using OpenOffice (technical
support)"?

-Rob


> For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
> problems. Everything is there.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Hagar Delest]

Le 08/02/2014 19:44, Kay Schenk a écrit :

These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing the
correct link to report Web site problems.

+1.

What about:
1. Add the link to the English forum and then the link to the other languages 
page
2. Add the link to the users mailing list
I think that users want a quick link to the support channel that is the most 
likely to give them an answer. I'm wondering if having to click a second time 
to chose another way is already a no-go.

First section would look like this:
"If you are a user and need technical support...

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in our 
support forum: check the English forum [hyperlink] or one of our other native 
language forums [hyperlink to forum list], they support users from several 
years and are now huge knowledge bases; most of the common questions already 
have their answer there.
If you prefer mailing list, ask our users mailing list: [mailto: users... with 
a custom object field that includes a tag like [Unsubscribed] User question] 
(make sure you subscribe to the list to get the replies ([mailto: 
subscribe...]).
Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, commercial support, etc., are 
described on our Support Page [hyperlink].

Note: Emails sent to these mailing lists are publicly archived. So do not send 
personal information that you would not want on the web for anyone to see."

And then remove the mailto link to the dev list and just point to the dev 
section of the mailing lists 
(http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#development-mailing-list-public).

Hagar

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

> Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>
>  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>>
>>>   On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock
>>>
   wrote:

  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir   wrote:
>
>   Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report
>
>> website issues to actually report website issues?
>>
>> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
>> link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
>> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>>
>> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>>
>>
>>   I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
>> here.
>>
>   I
> assume it leads to a form?
>
>
>  In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact
 us"
 link.  That loads this page:

 http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

 Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
 from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
 questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
 says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
 then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
 issues.

 I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.


>>> OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
>>> issues. This is failing as we can see.
>>>
>>> What about to try the opposite way:
>>>
>>> - Remove the text and link.
>>> - Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
>>> succeed).
>>> - And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
>>> mails got redirected to this ML already.
>>>
>>> As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
>>> number
>>> of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.
>>>
>>> So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>
>>
>> These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
>> information
>> on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
>> being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
>> account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
>> the
>> correct link to report Web site problems.
>>
>
> OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.
>
> For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
> problems. Everything is there.
>
> Marcus


yes.. I posted something in this thread yesterday and yet I can't find it
in the archives (h, I wonder what happened?)-- so here goes again...

How about if we change --
If you are a user and need technical support...

to
If you are a user and need help with Apache OpenOffice...

and change --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum. Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, a users
mailing list, commercial support, etc., are described on our Support Page.

to --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum.

Or contact the users mailing list. (we would need some kind of subject here)

Other support mechanisms, including FAQs,  commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page.


>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/08/2014 10:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)
wrote:


Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

   On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock


   wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weirwrote:

   Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report


website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


   I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
here.


   I
assume it leads to a form?



In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact us"
link.  That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.



OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
issues. This is failing as we can see.

What about to try the opposite way:

- Remove the text and link.
- Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
succeed).
- And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
mails got redirected to this ML already.

As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
number
of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.

So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?

Marcus




These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
the
correct link to report Web site problems.



OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.



I wonder... do all users know what "technical support" means?   Maybe
less technical users are not familiar with that term?  That would
explain why some might miss that first section of the contact page.
Maybe say, "If you need help with using OpenOffice (technical
support)"?


Yes, that could help a bit.

Marcus




For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
problems. Everything is there.

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/08/2014 10:17 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

Le 08/02/2014 19:44, Kay Schenk a écrit :

These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or
not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a
Forum
account. I think we should try to fix that area first before removing the
correct link to report Web site problems.

+1.

What about:
1. Add the link to the English forum and then the link to the other
languages page
2. Add the link to the users mailing list
I think that users want a quick link to the support channel that is the
most likely to give them an answer. I'm wondering if having to click a
second time to chose another way is already a no-go.

First section would look like this:
"If you are a user and need technical support...

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question
in our support forum: check the English forum [hyperlink] or one of our
other native language forums [hyperlink to forum list], they support
users from several years and are now huge knowledge bases; most of the
common questions already have their answer there.
If you prefer mailing list, ask our users mailing list: [mailto:
users... with a custom object field that includes a tag like
[Unsubscribed] User question] (make sure you subscribe to the list to
get the replies ([mailto: subscribe...]).
Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page [hyperlink].

Note: Emails sent to these mailing lists are publicly archived. So do
not send personal information that you would not want on the web for
anyone to see."


The length is enough. Shouldn't be longer. However, the Users ML is 
English only. Therefore I would avoid to list it. But the remaining text 
is OK.



And then remove the mailto link to the dev list and just point to the
dev section of the mailing lists
(http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#development-mailing-list-public).


Hm, which text/link do you mean?

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/08/2014 11:51 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)

  wrote:

  Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:


   On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock


   wrote:

  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weirwrote:


   Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report


website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having this
link?  I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list, but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


   I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
here.


   I
assume it leads to a form?


  In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact

us"
link.  That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.



OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for website
issues. This is failing as we can see.

What about to try the opposite way:

- Remove the text and link.
- Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
succeed).
- And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as other
mails got redirected to this ML already.

As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
number
of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.

So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?

Marcus




These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a Forum
account.   I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
the
correct link to report Web site problems.



OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.

For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
problems. Everything is there.

Marcus



yes.. I posted something in this thread yesterday and yet I can't find it
in the archives (h, I wonder what happened?)-- so here goes again...

How about if we change --
If you are a user and need technical support...

to
If you are a user and need help with Apache OpenOffice...


OK, goes into the direction ob Rob's suggestion.


and change --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum. Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, a users
mailing list, commercial support, etc., are described on our Support Page.

to --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a question in
our support forum.

Or contact the users mailing list. (we would need some kind of subject here)

Other support mechanisms, including FAQs,  commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page.


Yes, could bring the missing few % to 100%.

I could also think about to change the bottom headline,

from
"For problems with the website..."

into
"For problems with the technical infrastructure..."

Marcus

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Hagar Delest]

Le 09/02/2014 00:03, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

Am 02/08/2014 10:17 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

And then remove the mailto link to the dev list and just point to the
dev section of the mailing lists
(http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#development-mailing-list-public).


Hm, which text/link do you mean?


At the end of the sentence: For problems with the www.openoffice.org website, 
please contact us via Development mailing list.

_Development mailing list_ is a mailto hyperlink that opens a new message in 
your mail client. When users see that they can send a message right away, I 
guess that they don't bother trying anything else.

Hagar

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/09/2014 11:35 AM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

Le 09/02/2014 00:03, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

Am 02/08/2014 10:17 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

And then remove the mailto link to the dev list and just point to the
dev section of the mailing lists
(http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#development-mailing-list-public).



Hm, which text/link do you mean?


At the end of the sentence: For problems with the www.openoffice.org
website, please contact us via Development mailing list.


OK


_Development mailing list_ is a mailto hyperlink that opens a new
message in your mail client. When users see that they can send a message
right away, I guess that they don't bother trying anything else.


When just pointing to a list of available MLs, then the users will 
choose what they think is best, e.g., issues@. Ao, this will also not work.


I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now: What 
is the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)


Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Hagar Delest]

Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now: What is the 
best entry channel for website problems? ;-)


I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that will get 
them an answer.
So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let the users 
wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I think that there 
are much more basic users needing a redirect to the user ML than real troubles 
with the site.

Hagar

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 12:44:30 +0100
Hagar Delest  wrote:

> Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :
> > I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now: What is 
> > the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)
> 
> I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that will 
> get them an answer.
> So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let the 
> users wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I think that 
> there are much more basic users needing a redirect to the user ML than real 
> troubles with the site.
>
 
I agree with Hagar. If I find problems with a site I normally email the 
webmaster.

-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/09/2014 12:44 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now:
What is the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)


I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that
will get them an answer.
So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let
the users wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I
think that there are much more basic users needing a redirect to the
user ML than real troubles with the site.


I see we are on the same side.

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

If we can agree to re-wording the text for technical support and website 
problems (incl. their headlines) - suggested until now, then I would 
volunteer to do the changes.


Marcus



Am 02/09/2014 12:09 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):

Am 02/08/2014 11:51 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Marcus (OOo)
wrote:


Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)

wrote:

Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock


wrote:

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir wrote:


Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report


website issues to actually report website issues?

I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having
this
link? I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list,
but the
non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.

Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?


I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
here.


I
assume it leads to a form?


In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact

us"
link. That loads this page:

http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html

Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
issues.

I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.



OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for
website
issues. This is failing as we can see.

What about to try the opposite way:

- Remove the text and link.
- Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
succeed).
- And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as
other
mails got redirected to this ML already.

As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
number
of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.

So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?

Marcus




These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
information
on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood
or not
being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a
Forum
account. I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
the
correct link to report Web site problems.



OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.

For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
problems. Everything is there.

Marcus



yes.. I posted something in this thread yesterday and yet I can't find it
in the archives (h, I wonder what happened?)-- so here goes again...

How about if we change --
If you are a user and need technical support...

to
If you are a user and need help with Apache OpenOffice...


OK, goes into the direction ob Rob's suggestion.


and change --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a
question in
our support forum. Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, a users
mailing list, commercial support, etc., are described on our Support
Page.

to --

The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a
question in
our support forum.

Or contact the users mailing list. (we would need some kind of subject
here)

Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, commercial support, etc., are
described on our Support Page.


Yes, could bring the missing few % to 100%.

I could also think about to change the bottom headline,

from
"For problems with the website..."

into
"For problems with the technical infrastructure..."

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 4:39 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

> If we can agree to re-wording the text for technical support and website
> problems (incl. their headlines) - suggested until now, then I would
> volunteer to do the changes.
>
> Marcus
>

+1 good for me.

If we find we need something different later, we can always change it to
something else


>
>
>
> Am 02/09/2014 12:09 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):
>
>  Am 02/08/2014 11:51 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Marcus (OOo)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Am 02/08/2014 07:44 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

 On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Marcus (OOo)

> wrote:
>
> Am 02/07/2014 07:16 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Donald Whytock
>>
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>

 Is anyone else noticing that almost no one uses the link to report

  website issues to actually report website issues?
>
> I wonder whether we're making it harder for ourselves by having
> this
> link? I don't mind getting support questions to the dev list,
> but the
> non-informative subject lines we get is unhelpful.
>
> Maybe send web site issue reports to Bugzilla instead?
>
>
> I've never actually seen this link...just seen the results of it
> here.
>
>  I
 assume it leads to a form?


 In the footer of every www.openoffice.org page there is a "contact

>>> us"
>>> link. That loads this page:
>>>
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/contact_us.html
>>>
>>> Notice that user, unless they are standing on their heads and reading
>>> from the bottom of the page up, must ignore the advice for support
>>> questions, ignore the advice for reporting bugs, ignore the note that
>>> says that the following instructions are *not* for user support, and
>>> then click the link that clearly says it is for reporting website
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> I'm at a loss at how it happens that users reach that point.
>>>
>>>
>>>  OK, at the moment we trust in the users to use this link only for
>> website
>> issues. This is failing as we can see.
>>
>> What about to try the opposite way:
>>
>> - Remove the text and link.
>> - Then the users will find another way (yes, I'm pretty sure they will
>> succeed).
>> - And from there the problem will be reported to us via dev@ - as
>> other
>> mails got redirected to this ML already.
>>
>> As the number of real website issues is much, much smaller than the
>> number
>> of misused mails, I believe that we can try this.
>>
>> So, anything against to try to go this way and see what will happen?
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>
> These are obviously users in need of product help. We have some
> information
> on the Contact Us page for them, but, this is either not understood
> or not
> being used, or users prefer mailing list contact vs signing up for a
> Forum
> account. I think we should try to fix that area first before removing
> the
> correct link to report Web site problems.
>
>
 OK, do you have an idea? Because I'm - like Rob - out of ideas.

 For me it is really obvious which way to go - *or not to go* - with
 problems. Everything is there.

 Marcus

>>>
>>>
>>> yes.. I posted something in this thread yesterday and yet I can't find it
>>> in the archives (h, I wonder what happened?)-- so here goes again...
>>>
>>> How about if we change --
>>> If you are a user and need technical support...
>>>
>>> to
>>> If you are a user and need help with Apache OpenOffice...
>>>
>>
>> OK, goes into the direction ob Rob's suggestion.
>>
>>  and change --
>>>
>>> The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a
>>> question in
>>> our support forum. Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, a users
>>> mailing list, commercial support, etc., are described on our Support
>>> Page.
>>>
>>> to --
>>>
>>> The fastest way to get expert help with OpenOffice is to post a
>>> question in
>>> our support forum.
>>>
>>> Or contact the users mailing list. (we would need some kind of subject
>>> here)
>>>
>>> Other support mechanisms, including FAQs, commercial support, etc., are
>>> described on our Support Page.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, could bring the missing few % to 100%.
>>
>> I could also think about to change the bottom headline,
>>
>> from
>> "For problems with the website..."
>>
>> into
>> "For problems with the technical infrastructure..."
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On 02/09/2014 04:32 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 02/09/2014 12:44 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now:
What is the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)


I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that
will get them an answer.
So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let
the users wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I
think that there are much more basic users needing a redirect to the
user ML than real troubles with the site.


I see we are on the same side.

Marcus


Well, as it had been a while since we last had any further discussion on 
this, I took the liberty of incorporating the changes we'd already 
discussed and agreed upon. The "Contact us" is a bit longer now, but 
hopefully it will be more clear to users what's the best thing to do.






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--
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 02/27/2014 12:46 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:



On 02/09/2014 04:32 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 02/09/2014 12:44 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:

Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now:
What is the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)


I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that
will get them an answer.
So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let
the users wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I
think that there are much more basic users needing a redirect to the
user ML than real troubles with the site.


I see we are on the same side.

Marcus


Well, as it had been a while since we last had any further discussion on
this, I took the liberty of incorporating the changes we'd already
discussed and agreed upon. The "Contact us" is a bit longer now, but
hopefully it will be more clear to users what's the best thing to do.


Thanks for taking over. It seems I've missed my own deadline. ;-(

Marcus


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Re: So-called "Reporting a problem with the OpenOffice website"

[Kay Schenk]

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

> Am 02/27/2014 12:46 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>
>
>>
>> On 02/09/2014 04:32 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>
>>> Am 02/09/2014 12:44 PM, schrieb Hagar Delest:
>>>
 Le 09/02/2014 11:42, Marcus (OOo) a écrit :

> I think we should guide them to the right one. The question is now:
> What is the best entry channel for website problems? ;-)
>

 I think that basic users will click on whatever looks like a way that
 will get them an answer.
 So the question is rather how to direct them to the best list and let
 the users wanting to report a problem with the site dig a bit more. I
 think that there are much more basic users needing a redirect to the
 user ML than real troubles with the site.

>>>
>>> I see we are on the same side.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>
>> Well, as it had been a while since we last had any further discussion on
>> this, I took the liberty of incorporating the changes we'd already
>> discussed and agreed upon. The "Contact us" is a bit longer now, but
>> hopefully it will be more clear to users what's the best thing to do.
>>
>
> Thanks for taking over. It seems I've missed my own deadline. ;-(
>
> Marcus


You're welcome, and no problem.  I know you're busy getting ready for the
beta release.  Many of us can take over for others.


>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>
>


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason