Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hhhhmm... it looks like Thunderbird didn't like your email (see below). But nevermind, I checked the list archive. You suggested monotone. It looks like Monotone and Darcs are the top choices. I couldn't get Darcs to install (stupid Solaris) because I couldn't get the Haskell compiler to work (hey, cool! Darcs is written in Haskell!). So I'm trying out monotone. My impressions so far: * Very easy deployment. (1) It's a single, self-contained binary, available for major OS. (2) No need to setup a server, unlike CVS and Subversion. Incidentally, Subversion even requires Apache! For my purposes, this is fantastic. Easy. * Just having a SCM on my computer I can use is fantastic. I'm so happy. :-) * Over all, I like it better than CVS. The commands are comparable, though they tend to behave better. For example, you don't need to actually 'rm' a file to remove it from the archive. Also, adding sub directories takes fewer steps. * Monotone tracks changes on a per-commit basis (I think the correct name is "per patch", not sure), instead of per-file like CVS. So, you edit a dozen files to implement a new feature. You commit it, and the entire change has a single patch, with a single ID. * One drawback is that the commands are verbose. For example, to add a file you must specify the database (--db=~/project.db). I would like monotone to remember the last used database (like it does for the 'commit' command) so you only type it once. Some commands require you to include a 20-character fingerprint. That might get on my nerves eventually. We shall see. From what I can see, all of the above are things I would also get with Darcs. That's why I'm still very keen on it. I also like Darcs' "theory of patches", and the commands seem less verbose. Darcs also seems very portable, it's just Solaris that's a pest. In any event, monotone got installed on my sysem first, so I'll be using that for this project. When I have a new project, I'll try to install Darcs again and check it out. Cheers, Daniel. Kohei Yoshida wrote: On 4/25/05, Daniel Carrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Mon Apr 25 16:34:00 2005 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 16772 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2005 15:40:34 - Received: from s002.sfo.collab.net (HELO openoffice.org) (64.125.133.202) by www.digitaldistribution.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 15:40:34 - Received: (qmail 4657 invoked by uid 5302); 25 Apr 2005 20:11:58 - Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes list-help: - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On Mon, 2005-04-25 at 15:31 -0400, Daniel Carrera wrote: > Hi all, > > This is just one of those "Daniel is curious" questions :-) > > What are your thoughts on CVS? Most OOo developers are Sun developers. > What SCM do you use at Sun? > > CVS is sort of the de-facto standard in the FOSS world, but I also know > that it's a bit old and doesn't do the things that modern SCM's do > (renaming a file!). So I'd like to hear some thoughts. CVS is fine for small centralised projects. It is really awful for larger open source projects. >From my point of view the problem is lack of distributed control so that things like diffs etc take a long time to do. > On a related topic, if I wanted to play around with a SCM, which would > you recommend? (open source svp). Some times I wish I had one. Right > now, when I work on a program, I keep doing a 'cp -r'. > > I'm looking at Darcs right now. It looks neat. >From my point of view I would do nothing until the current SCM wars settle down. Linus has thrown the gauntlet down and a lot of SCM projects are doing great things but this also makes them a little unstable. subversion is an enhanced CVS and improves things. Does not make fundamental improvements. aegis is a forced testing framework that has a source repository as well. archs latest release is badly broken. I went to the http://bazaar-ng.org presentation at LCA it looks like the future of source control but it really is raw. Ubuntu Linux is throwing a lot of weight to baz, an archs derivative with easier command structures and faster performance. If I was jumping today I would definitely look at this. They are actively canvasing support from other teams. Seems like a great idea. I want to write a proposal on implementing a replacement for CVS so I have been spending some time learning about this stuff. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hi Daniel, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hi all, This is just one of those "Daniel is curious" questions :-) What are your thoughts on CVS? Most OOo developers are Sun developers. What SCM do you use at Sun? CVS is certainly showing its age. On the other hand, it's matured and reliable, and that is what's important with a SCM system. Let's say CVS is a working horse, it will get the job done but it's neither the fastest, nor the most efficient to use. Huge projects will eventually build a framework around CVS, with additional scripting and tracking possibilities. OOo has the CWS framework, which is based on CVS with some additional features thrown in. I can not speak for all of Sun, but the StarOffice team uses the same CWS on CVS based process for StarOffice only (as opposed to OOo) stuff, the code is just committed to another CVS server. Other groups work with teamware, that's a SCM system based on SCCS and used to be part of the Forte Developer Tools. I think it's no longer part of the current Sun Studio 10, I could be wrong, though. CVS is sort of the de-facto standard in the FOSS world, but I also know that it's a bit old and doesn't do the things that modern SCM's do (renaming a file!). So I'd like to hear some thoughts. On a related topic, if I wanted to play around with a SCM, which would you recommend? (open source svp). Some times I wish I had one. Right now, when I work on a program, I keep doing a 'cp -r'. Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. Heiner -- Jens-Heiner Rechtien [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Issue 4925
On Mon, 2005-04-25 at 10:05 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello, > > For the past three years this issue has gone unresolved. In an > attempt to bring more attention to this BUG, I am reaching out to my > community. I am pleading for someone to resolve this issue. Every > developer that uses Ooo for manipulating data and saving it as a CSV file > has to find another application (MS Excel) to get there work done. Please > help us. > > http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4925 > Try this in excel: Format a column short so that you get for field overflow. Write to a CSV file. Look at it, the field is ### in the export file. There are flaws with the MS model. There probably should be an option however I have heard that the major problem is the lack of certain functions (from spreadsheet people). Basically what is your major problem is not others. There are other methods of solving your problem so you could work around it or just work with your own external formatting rules therefore it is not a major show stopper even for you. It is more of an annoyance. CSV is a really bad format, I have seen csv files from excel loaded into excel that are totally different. I have seen interoperability problems with csv files between applications. I STRONGLY recommend you abandon csv files as a method of transporting data between applications. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On 4/26/05, Jens-Heiner Rechtien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to > compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for > almost all platforms. I use Subversion for all my personal projects. It's very nice. Kohei - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Carrera schrieb: | Hhhhmm... it looks like Thunderbird didn't like your email (see below). | But nevermind, I checked the list archive. You suggested monotone. | | It looks like Monotone and Darcs are the top choices. I couldn't get | Darcs to install (stupid Solaris) because I couldn't get the Haskell | compiler to work (hey, cool! Darcs is written in Haskell!). So I'm | trying out monotone. My impressions so far: | | * Very easy deployment. (1) It's a single, self-contained binary, | available for major OS. (2) No need to setup a server, unlike CVS and | Subversion. Incidentally, Subversion even requires Apache! No subversion does not need apache you've got multiple possibilities to access a subversion-repository: * filebase you use the: file:///myrepository * run as service: svn://myhost/myrepository * via apache/dav: http://myhost/myrepository I like subversion because there are plugins for many different IDEs like ~ e.g. Eclipse, there's also an integration on win32 into the Explorer, ... . Tom -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCbnFDkVPeOFLgZFIRAgfbAJ9ke+CBGlbtihvmPW2TlH4Vkj9JSACfQgMe Ci7ZDVw1sYstXY/o0BB3beA= =td+f -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Ken Foskey wrote: CVS is fine for small centralised projects. It is really awful for larger open source projects. Even on a small project, not being able to rename a file is really really annoying. I hate the idea of losing file history because I decided to change its name. And I don't like the two-step remoal thing. From my point of view the problem is lack of distributed control so that things like diffs etc take a long time to do. I just begun learning about "decentralized" SCM systems. It looks really neat. From my point of view I would do nothing until the current SCM wars settle down. Ok. At least not on any FOSS project with more than one developer :-) But keep in mind that when they settle, there may not be a clear winner. Like the Gnome vs KDE or Emacs vs XEmacs (and some other thingie called "bee-eye"...). Those are "settled", but there's more than one around. subversion is an enhanced CVS and improves things. Does not make fundamental improvements. It looks like a hassle to setup too. aegis is a forced testing framework that has a source repository as well. But it's Unix-only :-( archs latest release is badly broken. :-( I went to the http://bazaar-ng.org presentation at LCA it looks like the future of source control but it really is raw. Hhmm... I hope they put slides up. I've heard good things about them (essentially what you just said). I want to write a proposal on implementing a replacement for CVS so I have been spending some time learning about this stuff. Have you looked and Darcs and Monotone? Both look very interesting, and are de-centralized. Okay, I'm not really a developer, so the following might be stupid. But I think that Darcs/Monotone might make it easier to let new developers in, because you don't actually have to give them commit access to the server. They can pull out the repo, make their own branch (call it CWS :) and hack on it, without bothering anyone. If it turns out they do something useful, then you can merge it. Am I right in that? Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On Tuesday 26 April 2005 10:50, Daniel Carrera wrote: > Subversion even requires Apache! No, it doesn't: http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#apache-extension -- http://www.danielnaber.de - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Daniel Naber wrote: On Tuesday 26 April 2005 10:50, Daniel Carrera wrote: Subversion even requires Apache! No, it doesn't: http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#apache-extension In that case, I'm glad I asked here :-) But it's still hard to setup, right? Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It just seems like it'd make OOo a bit friendlier. I would be interested in looking around the Calc code in my spare time (ha ha) and see how hard it'd be to add a few more functions. Sander showed me the code once, and it didn't look terribly hard. At least not for simple, pure-math functions. And I know that's a place where Calc lags behind Excel. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hi, Daniel Carrera wrote: Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) It just seems like it'd make OOo a bit friendlier. I would be interested in looking around the Calc code in my spare time (ha ha) and see how hard it'd be to add a few more functions. Sander showed me the code once, and it didn't look terribly hard. At least not for simple, pure-math functions. And I know that's a place where Calc lags behind Excel. I'm looking forward to your first patches for Calc ! Cheers, Daniel. Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Martin Hollmichel wrote: Hi, Daniel Carrera wrote: Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On Tue, 2005-04-26 at 23:09 +0200, David Fraser wrote: > Martin Hollmichel wrote: > > Daniel Carrera wrote: > >> I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing > >> with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the > >> central server. And then if it turns out I produce something > >> worthwhile I can try to get it approved. > >> > > It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central > server, they just operate on a private branch... Yes, you are correct. The concept of the new SCM tools are a fundamental shift in the way you work. The ability to branch and merge externally on your own tree appeals to me. For example when a new CWS is created internally for review there is a period of time until the merge, during that time I want to be able to merge that branch into my tree then when head merges with that branch I want the merge to actually work. The new SCM tools do that. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Ken Foskey wrote: It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... Yes, you are correct. The concept of the new SCM tools are a fundamental shift in the way you work. The ability to branch and merge externally on your own tree appeals to me. For example when a new CWS is created internally for review there is a period of time until the merge, during that time I want to be able to merge that branch into my tree then when head merges with that branch I want the merge to actually work. The new SCM tools do that. It looks like the fact that OOo uses CWS demonstrates that there is a real value in the modern SCMs. :-) It's like it's trying to stack some of that functionality but doesn't quite manage to. :-) Incidentally, I took a second look at Darcs, and actually it's just as easy to install as monotone. That is, there's a self-contained binary available for most platforms. I just missed that link the first time. I downloaded the one for Solaris and I've been playing with it. So far, I'm happy. It has all the nifty things I said about monotone. Also, the commands are simpler and less verbose. I've read the "theory of patches" and I like it. I've read that Darcs may have speed issues with very large repositories. I also read elsewhere that this was supposed to be fixed. So I don't know. Darcs also uses hashes to store versions, it just doesn't ask you to type them on the command line like Monotone. It also doesn't ask you to supply a database. Everything goes into the _darcs folder. Darcs did not ask me to generate an RSA key like Monotone. I wonder if Darcs comes with other means for signing packages. I'm sure there must be something. Maybe they have hooks to GPG :-) I like GPG. In any event, for my current purposes (toying :) either is great, but Darcs wins because the commands are shorter and I'm so lazy. :-) This is fun! Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Daniel Carrera wrote: Incidentally, I took a second look at Darcs, and actually it's just as easy to install as monotone. That is, there's a self-contained binary available for most platforms. I just missed that link the first time. Incidentally, here's a link: http://www.darcs.net/DarcsWiki/CategoryBinaries And Monotone's are right on the front page: http://www.venge.net/monotone/ Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Daniel Carrera wrote: Darcs did not ask me to generate an RSA key like Monotone. I wonder if Darcs comes with other means for signing packages. I'm sure there must be something. Maybe they have hooks to GPG :-) I like GPG. Yup, it uses GPG. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev] Missing bullet point in 680 Milestones for DarwinPPC?
Hello all, I am about to engage on building OpenOffice.org from source on my Mac G4. I found this page which was posted quite recently: http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/build_680_X11.html#gpc > Building OpenOffice.org 680 Milestones for DarwinPPC I noticed that on this page, there appears to be a missing bullet point as in: http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/build_680_X11.html#add_software >* The perl module Archive::Zip >* >* Apache Ant >* gpc >* pkg-config >* gtk2 - optional - not needed I am wondering if it is Ok to ignore the blank second bullet point or is there something important that was accidentally omitted? I want to be very thorough because my boss is counting on me to install OOo (and build from source) on our Macs in our office so we can wave good bye to Microsoft! Also, I am trying to figure this out -- does the 680 build correspond to Ooo 2.0? I have seen some references to version 1.9 as well. Is there a recommended specific 680 snapshot that is considered stable enough to download from and build? Or is it better to just build for OOo 1.1.4 for Darwin? I noticed something and I'm not sure if this is a bug in the HTML documentation, but I was looking at the page for building the OOo 1.1.4 Source and Solver: http://download.openoffice.org/1.1.4/source.html On that page, if you click on the link in the bullet point labeled: "Downloading and Building the Source" It doesn't bring you to another page or to another location. For example, try this: http://download.openoffice.org/1.1.4/source.html#ondownloads All in all, this is a tad bit confusing as to which build instructions to follow for Darwin PPC / Mac OS X. Maybe the best thing right now to do is to build the stable 1.1.4 for Darwin PPC. Maybe because of the new Ooo.org web site, were some URLs lost in the process of updating it? If anyone can clarify this would be much appreciated. Cheers, Sergio - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] -- willing to contribute: help needed --
Hello Praveen, thanks for your interest in OpenOffice.org. Praveen wrote: Hello everybody, I am new to openoffice development and I am willing to contribute towards the software. I would like to work on the features related to XML and XSLT requirements as I have prior experience working on those technologies. I would really appreciate if you guys could help me start working on it. I believe dev@xml.openoffice.org is the best place to re-state your offering - thus cc'ing this list. Regards, Oliver - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hi, I'm wondering what this discussion is about. * what actual problem we do have with the current CVS setup now, which of these problem do we really need to adress urgently ? * indeed distributed SCM tools are interesting and we should watch the development there. But if we talk about these as toys we should move this thread to discuss first and come back to this list, if we have done some more serious investigations. In Usenet, comp.software.config-mgmt might be a good resource for this. Martin Daniel Carrera wrote: Ken Foskey wrote: It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... Yes, you are correct. The concept of the new SCM tools are a fundamental shift in the way you work. The ability to branch and merge externally on your own tree appeals to me. For example when a new CWS is created internally for review there is a period of time until the merge, during that time I want to be able to merge that branch into my tree then when head merges with that branch I want the merge to actually work. The new SCM tools do that. It looks like the fact that OOo uses CWS demonstrates that there is a real value in the modern SCMs. :-) It's like it's trying to stack some of that functionality but doesn't quite manage to. :-) Incidentally, I took a second look at Darcs, and actually it's just as easy to install as monotone. That is, there's a self-contained binary available for most platforms. I just missed that link the first time. I downloaded the one for Solaris and I've been playing with it. So far, I'm happy. It has all the nifty things I said about monotone. Also, the commands are simpler and less verbose. I've read the "theory of patches" and I like it. I've read that Darcs may have speed issues with very large repositories. I also read elsewhere that this was supposed to be fixed. So I don't know. Darcs also uses hashes to store versions, it just doesn't ask you to type them on the command line like Monotone. It also doesn't ask you to supply a database. Everything goes into the _darcs folder. Darcs did not ask me to generate an RSA key like Monotone. I wonder if Darcs comes with other means for signing packages. I'm sure there must be something. Maybe they have hooks to GPG :-) I like GPG. In any event, for my current purposes (toying :) either is great, but Darcs wins because the commands are shorter and I'm so lazy. :-) This is fun! Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
