Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hhhhmm... it looks like Thunderbird didn't like your email (see below). But nevermind, I checked the list archive. You suggested monotone. It looks like Monotone and Darcs are the top choices. I couldn't get Darcs to install (stupid Solaris) because I couldn't get the Haskell compiler to work (hey, cool! Darcs is written in Haskell!). So I'm trying out monotone. My impressions so far: * Very easy deployment. (1) It's a single, self-contained binary, available for major OS. (2) No need to setup a server, unlike CVS and Subversion. Incidentally, Subversion even requires Apache! For my purposes, this is fantastic. Easy. * Just having a SCM on my computer I can use is fantastic. I'm so happy. :-) * Over all, I like it better than CVS. The commands are comparable, though they tend to behave better. For example, you don't need to actually 'rm' a file to remove it from the archive. Also, adding sub directories takes fewer steps. * Monotone tracks changes on a per-commit basis (I think the correct name is per patch, not sure), instead of per-file like CVS. So, you edit a dozen files to implement a new feature. You commit it, and the entire change has a single patch, with a single ID. * One drawback is that the commands are verbose. For example, to add a file you must specify the database (--db=~/project.db). I would like monotone to remember the last used database (like it does for the 'commit' command) so you only type it once. Some commands require you to include a 20-character fingerprint. That might get on my nerves eventually. We shall see. From what I can see, all of the above are things I would also get with Darcs. That's why I'm still very keen on it. I also like Darcs' theory of patches, and the commands seem less verbose. Darcs also seems very portable, it's just Solaris that's a pest. In any event, monotone got installed on my sysem first, so I'll be using that for this project. When I have a new project, I'll try to install Darcs again and check it out. Cheers, Daniel. Kohei Yoshida wrote: On 4/25/05, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Mon Apr 25 16:34:00 2005 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 16772 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2005 15:40:34 - Received: from s002.sfo.collab.net (HELO openoffice.org) (64.125.133.202) by www.digitaldistribution.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2005 15:40:34 - Received: (qmail 4657 invoked by uid 5302); 25 Apr 2005 20:11:58 - Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes list-help: mai - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On Mon, 2005-04-25 at 15:31 -0400, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hi all, This is just one of those Daniel is curious questions :-) What are your thoughts on CVS? Most OOo developers are Sun developers. What SCM do you use at Sun? CVS is sort of the de-facto standard in the FOSS world, but I also know that it's a bit old and doesn't do the things that modern SCM's do (renaming a file!). So I'd like to hear some thoughts. CVS is fine for small centralised projects. It is really awful for larger open source projects. From my point of view the problem is lack of distributed control so that things like diffs etc take a long time to do. On a related topic, if I wanted to play around with a SCM, which would you recommend? (open source svp). Some times I wish I had one. Right now, when I work on a program, I keep doing a 'cp -r'. I'm looking at Darcs right now. It looks neat. From my point of view I would do nothing until the current SCM wars settle down. Linus has thrown the gauntlet down and a lot of SCM projects are doing great things but this also makes them a little unstable. subversion is an enhanced CVS and improves things. Does not make fundamental improvements. aegis is a forced testing framework that has a source repository as well. archs latest release is badly broken. I went to the http://bazaar-ng.org presentation at LCA it looks like the future of source control but it really is raw. Ubuntu Linux is throwing a lot of weight to baz, an archs derivative with easier command structures and faster performance. If I was jumping today I would definitely look at this. They are actively canvasing support from other teams. Seems like a great idea. I want to write a proposal on implementing a replacement for CVS so I have been spending some time learning about this stuff. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Issue 4925
On Mon, 2005-04-25 at 10:05 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, For the past three years this issue has gone unresolved. In an attempt to bring more attention to this BUG, I am reaching out to my community. I am pleading for someone to resolve this issue. Every developer that uses Ooo for manipulating data and saving it as a CSV file has to find another application (MS Excel) to get there work done. Please help us. http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4925 Try this in excel: Format a column short so that you get for field overflow. Write to a CSV file. Look at it, the field is ### in the export file. There are flaws with the MS model. There probably should be an option however I have heard that the major problem is the lack of certain functions (from spreadsheet people). Basically what is your major problem is not others. There are other methods of solving your problem so you could work around it or just work with your own external formatting rules therefore it is not a major show stopper even for you. It is more of an annoyance. CSV is a really bad format, I have seen csv files from excel loaded into excel that are totally different. I have seen interoperability problems with csv files between applications. I STRONGLY recommend you abandon csv files as a method of transporting data between applications. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On 4/26/05, Jens-Heiner Rechtien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. I use Subversion for all my personal projects. It's very nice. Kohei - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It just seems like it'd make OOo a bit friendlier. I would be interested in looking around the Calc code in my spare time (ha ha) and see how hard it'd be to add a few more functions. Sander showed me the code once, and it didn't look terribly hard. At least not for simple, pure-math functions. And I know that's a place where Calc lags behind Excel. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Hi, Daniel Carrera wrote: Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) It just seems like it'd make OOo a bit friendlier. I would be interested in looking around the Calc code in my spare time (ha ha) and see how hard it'd be to add a few more functions. Sander showed me the code once, and it didn't look terribly hard. At least not for simple, pure-math functions. And I know that's a place where Calc lags behind Excel. I'm looking forward to your first patches for Calc ! Cheers, Daniel. Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Martin Hollmichel wrote: Hi, Daniel Carrera wrote: Jens-Heiner Rechtien wrote: Subversion is certainly not a bad choice. It's a bit difficult to compile/install, but it's possible to find precompiled binaries for almost all platforms. What do you think of the de-centralized SCMs ? I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
On Tue, 2005-04-26 at 23:09 +0200, David Fraser wrote: Martin Hollmichel wrote: Daniel Carrera wrote: I kind of like the idea of just grabbing my own branch and playing with it, and doing my own commits, without having to touch the central server. And then if it turns out I produce something worthwhile I can try to get it approved. It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... Yes, you are correct. The concept of the new SCM tools are a fundamental shift in the way you work. The ability to branch and merge externally on your own tree appeals to me. For example when a new CWS is created internally for review there is a period of time until the merge, during that time I want to be able to merge that branch into my tree then when head merges with that branch I want the merge to actually work. The new SCM tools do that. -- Ken Foskey OpenOffice.org developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Ken Foskey wrote: It seems that you got the idea of having childworkspaces :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but childworkspaces still touch the central server, they just operate on a private branch... Yes, you are correct. The concept of the new SCM tools are a fundamental shift in the way you work. The ability to branch and merge externally on your own tree appeals to me. For example when a new CWS is created internally for review there is a period of time until the merge, during that time I want to be able to merge that branch into my tree then when head merges with that branch I want the merge to actually work. The new SCM tools do that. It looks like the fact that OOo uses CWS demonstrates that there is a real value in the modern SCMs. :-) It's like it's trying to stack some of that functionality but doesn't quite manage to. :-) Incidentally, I took a second look at Darcs, and actually it's just as easy to install as monotone. That is, there's a self-contained binary available for most platforms. I just missed that link the first time. I downloaded the one for Solaris and I've been playing with it. So far, I'm happy. It has all the nifty things I said about monotone. Also, the commands are simpler and less verbose. I've read the theory of patches and I like it. I've read that Darcs may have speed issues with very large repositories. I also read elsewhere that this was supposed to be fixed. So I don't know. Darcs also uses hashes to store versions, it just doesn't ask you to type them on the command line like Monotone. It also doesn't ask you to supply a database. Everything goes into the _darcs folder. Darcs did not ask me to generate an RSA key like Monotone. I wonder if Darcs comes with other means for signing packages. I'm sure there must be something. Maybe they have hooks to GPG :-) I like GPG. In any event, for my current purposes (toying :) either is great, but Darcs wins because the commands are shorter and I'm so lazy. :-) This is fun! Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Daniel Carrera wrote: Incidentally, I took a second look at Darcs, and actually it's just as easy to install as monotone. That is, there's a self-contained binary available for most platforms. I just missed that link the first time. Incidentally, here's a link: http://www.darcs.net/DarcsWiki/CategoryBinaries And Monotone's are right on the front page: http://www.venge.net/monotone/ Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Thoughts on CVS?
Daniel Carrera wrote: Darcs did not ask me to generate an RSA key like Monotone. I wonder if Darcs comes with other means for signing packages. I'm sure there must be something. Maybe they have hooks to GPG :-) I like GPG. Yup, it uses GPG. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
