Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hi Charles, As always it's entertaining talking with you. On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 16:02 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Yes, it is one; I thought it was a community event. While technical discussions are perennial to our project, I don't see the need for segregating the community between hackers and non hackers; As I understand it this is a normal practice for organic communities: eg. the Linux Kernel Summit[1] - has purely technical talks, or say the Gnome Developers Summit[2], or perhaps aKademy (AFAIR originally billed as a developers conference). There are of course a myriad of hack-fests, and other highly technical conferences on many topics everywhere. Are you suggesting that these are fundamentally evil ? that developers meeting to talk, enjoy each others' company, work together and discuss technical detail is bad ? it's not as if we are excluding anyone - just warning ahead of time this will be technical, and our core constituency is hackers. Clearly broader conferences have their place too. every part of our community is legitimate Did I suggest it was not ? Honestly, I'm happy to talk politics[1] vigorously: will you share an hour slot with me for a debate on the future of OpenOffice in Beijing ? I will be more than happy to do so Great; I suggest the Parlimentary debating style[3] and a proposal of the form: Contribution to OpenOffice.org by entities with diverse motivations is a strength not a weakness [ or you can cast it negatively if you wish ]. I'm sure Sun, or someone can provide an impartial speaker to compare it: I'm not sure how well it would go over to a predominantly non native speaking audience, though with slides we might get somewhere: sounds fun. although debating with somebody from Microsoft could have probably sped up things. Nice rhetoric, shame about the mismatch with reality; and what do you want to speed up ? I was thinking of starting with Why I believe Open-Source/Free Software is the disruptive movement of our time - I suspect MS has a different view. Of course, such a debate is possible provided I can get the funding to go there, and I realize that you and I, just like many other contributors, are facing this problem. Book early to save :-) See my first comment: provided that the community as a whole is invited, it is a Regicon, yes. Honestly, substance concerns me far more than branding; do call it what you will; all are welcome - the content will be ~exclusively technical. Regards, Michael. [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Kernel_Developers_Summit + sadly invitation only, not my preferred approach. [2] - http://live.gnome.org/BostonSummit [3] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_debate -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Michael, Le 10 mars 08 à 12:20, Michael Meeks a écrit : Hi Charles, As always it's entertaining talking with you. On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 16:02 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Yes, it is one; I thought it was a community event. While technical discussions are perennial to our project, I don't see the need for segregating the community between hackers and non hackers; As I understand it this is a normal practice for organic communities: eg. the Linux Kernel Summit[1] - has purely technical talks, or say the Gnome Developers Summit[2], or perhaps aKademy (AFAIR originally billed as a developers conference). There are of course a myriad of hack-fests, and other highly technical conferences on many topics everywhere. Are you suggesting that these are fundamentally evil ? that developers meeting to talk, enjoy each others' company, work together and discuss technical detail is bad ? it's not as if we are excluding anyone - just warning ahead of time this will be technical, and our core constituency is hackers. Clearly broader conferences have their place too. I'm just suggesting to respect the way we work inside OOo, that's all. every part of our community is legitimate Did I suggest it was not ? Honestly, I'm happy to talk politics[1] vigorously: will you share an hour slot with me for a debate on the future of OpenOffice in Beijing ? I will be more than happy to do so Great; I suggest the Parlimentary debating style[3] and a proposal of the form: Contribution to OpenOffice.org by entities with diverse motivations is a strength not a weakness [ or you can cast it negatively if you wish ]. I'm sure Sun, or someone can provide an impartial speaker to compare it: I'm not sure how well it would go over to a predominantly non native speaking audience, though with slides we might get somewhere: sounds fun. Well, I suggest both of us work on this a bit later on with details, etc. We should have to fill out some call for papers proposal, etc. And that would happen in a few months, if I'm not misstaken. I am busy at the moment on OOXML; so is your employer but on the other side of the fence, as usual. Best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hi, On Thursday 06 March 2008 19:24, Michael Meeks wrote: The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague. [...] The (preliminary) plan: + April 11th, ad-hoc presentations, hacking, evening drinks / meal. + April 12th, am: more of the same pm: fun ropes course / team building The programme started filling, please check http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008#Programme It is still a month till the event - if you have a theme you'll be interested in presenting, please drop me a mail. Regards, Jan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
What do I think??? Novell is tring to break OOo apart. It was predictable. -1 to Novell this site can show some prices to travel. Can show a lot of prices but in Brasilian money :( http://www.submarinoviagens.com.br/ International I don´t know a site :(. Cor Nouws escreveu: Charles-H. Schulz wrote (6-3-2008 19:39) Le 6 mars 08 à 19:24, Michael Meeks a écrit : The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague. To re-iterate, this is not an attempt to undermine OOoCon Great to read this. I didn't expect anything else of course... - if you can only afford to go to one conference (money, time, spousal -patience / whatever); go to OOoCon. .. but here I would have expected: choose the great multi-international event in Beijing, whenever possible. And if money is a problem, look at the special offers. If you have more time and interests, don't miss Prague. Having said that, it should be a fun time to sit and chew over the latest developments, problems, and opportunities - while getting to know other people. Conference site: + http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008 [...] I am sorry but given the way you describe this event, it seems that: [...] In short, you advertise for a Novell event. Notice that I think a Novell event could be an interesting idea, but, as I wrote above, the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me. I'm not aware (my fault) of guide lines for RegiCons. But I expect it to be rather low level to set up. So why not try to do some extra's and make a RegiCon of the Go-OOo event? IMO it's great if the Novell OOo team organizes an event and others feel free to join and enjoy. I wouldn't understand why there should be X- of Y-only events :-) Best, Cor Marcus de Vasconcelos Diogo da Silva Instrutor Informática [EMAIL PROTECTED] Consultor Software LivreCelular:+55 85 88777045 http://www.broffice.org/blog/7040 [EMAIL PROTECTED] No caudaloso rio de nossas vidas nos dando as mãos navegaremos mais seguros, pois a força da amizade é o maior dos escudos contra as adversidades. (OHeremita) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Marcus Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do I think??? Novell is tring to break OOo apart. It was predictable. -1 to Novell This is what? Do you want to start some flamewar again? Or what? Just to refresh your memory, dev@openoffice.org mailing list description: This list provides a general entry point for developers; it is also strongly urged that all developers subscribe to this list for announcements, etc. If you are unsure which project fits your needs best, ask for redirection here. But do not expect user discussions or support. Rather, discussions are focused on the development of the technology. Do you like this event? Come, meet people and be happy. Don't you? Stay at home. I don't like these stupid emails about nothing. Do you want to say something like this to Michael / Novell? Say it, but off-list, directly to Michael, Novell, in your blog, ... Anyone else wants to start virtual fight against Sun, Novell, SCA, JCA, LGPL, GPL, ... for whatever reason here? Me not, so, please, try to resolve these things off-list. Thanks! -- Robert Vojta - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Sorry Robert and every one. I will not comment about GoOOoCon or any other action related to that. No flameswar. Marcus Robert Vojta escreveu: On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Marcus Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do I think??? Novell is tring to break OOo apart. It was predictable. -1 to Novell This is what? Do you want to start some flamewar again? Or what? Just to refresh your memory, dev@openoffice.org mailing list description: This list provides a general entry point for developers; it is also strongly urged that all developers subscribe to this list for announcements, etc. If you are unsure which project fits your needs best, ask for redirection here. But do not expect user discussions or support. Rather, discussions are focused on the development of the technology. Do you like this event? Come, meet people and be happy. Don't you? Stay at home. I don't like these stupid emails about nothing. Do you want to say something like this to Michael / Novell? Say it, but off-list, directly to Michael, Novell, in your blog, ... Anyone else wants to start virtual fight against Sun, Novell, SCA, JCA, LGPL, GPL, ... for whatever reason here? Me not, so, please, try to resolve these things off-list. Thanks!
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hello Marcus, thank you for your last message. I hope you can contribute to OpenOffice.org through broffice.org ; if you need more information, just let me know. Best, Charles. Le 7 mars 08 à 15:04, Marcus Silva a écrit : Sorry Robert and every one. I will not comment about GoOOoCon or any other action related to that. No flameswar. Marcus Robert Vojta escreveu: On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Marcus Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do I think??? Novell is tring to break OOo apart. It was predictable. -1 to Novell This is what? Do you want to start some flamewar again? Or what? Just to refresh your memory, dev@openoffice.org mailing list description: This list provides a general entry point for developers; it is also strongly urged that all developers subscribe to this list for announcements, etc. If you are unsure which project fits your needs best, ask for redirection here. But do not expect user discussions or support. Rather, discussions are focused on the development of the technology. Do you like this event? Come, meet people and be happy. Don't you? Stay at home. I don't like these stupid emails about nothing. Do you want to say something like this to Michael / Novell? Say it, but off-list, directly to Michael, Novell, in your blog, ... Anyone else wants to start virtual fight against Sun, Novell, SCA, JCA, LGPL, GPL, ... for whatever reason here? Me not, so, please, try to resolve these things off-list. Thanks! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hi Charles, On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 19:39 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: - it will be 'hackers' only Well, given the content of the talks and company, I'm confident it will be much less interesting to non-hackers, so modulo some really patient people coming, you're prolly right, is that a problem ? - nobody will be able to speak politics (ah, those darned politics and, always pointing out awkward things about your employer! Why do they even exist?) Honestly, I'm happy to talk politics[1] vigorously: will you share an hour slot with me for a debate on the future of OpenOffice in Beijing ? However, I realise that other people are not; in particular our friends among the Sun hackers. Indeed, at the last two ESC meetings, it has been similarly forbidden to discuss so called 'politics', instead focusing on technical issues. which in essence means, that discussions will be managed Sure, self regulated - I agree it sucks at some level, but don't believe for a moment it's for my benefit. - you seem to be ignoring the existence of RegiCons, or regional conferences that work very well. Yep, was unaware of them; on the other hand I want to meet, talk to and drink beer with hackers from all over the place: is that what a RegiCon is ? if so, lets call it a RegiCon. In short, you advertise for a Novell event. Notice that I think a Novell event could be an interesting idea, but, as I wrote above, the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me. Problematic because it tramples on some existing RegiCon ? or that it is primarily focused at developers[2] ? or because it's (as I said) tacked onto the end of an existing Novell event, or becuase it's organised by Novell ? or ... ? All the best, Michael. [1] - eg. I'm still waiting for some a reply that appears to have been collateral damage in an unrelated end-thread (though perhaps now moot with the new SCA exemptions, only time will tell): http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=devmsgNo=21708 [2] - If the Native-Lang guys want to have their own Native-Lang-contributors-only meetings whether virtual, or real I have no problem with that; why different for developers ? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hi, Besides, the scheduling -roughly at the same time than the OOoCON if I understood things well- is also counterproductive. no Charles, you haven't even looked at the Wiki to see when it is... But you have to say your wors anyway. :-( -- Pavel Janík - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Le 7 mars 08 à 16:09, Pavel Janík a écrit : Hi, Besides, the scheduling -roughly at the same time than the OOoCON if I understood things well- is also counterproductive. no Charles, you haven't even looked at the Wiki to see when it is... But you have to say your wors anyway. :-( My fault, wasn't sure of the dates as I wrote. Best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Hi guys, The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague. To re-iterate, this is not an attempt to undermine OOoCon - if you can only afford to go to one conference (money, time, spousal -patience / whatever); go to OOoCon. Having said that, it should be a fun time to sit and chew over the latest developments, problems, and opportunities - while getting to know other people. Conference site: + http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008 The place: + Prague, beautiful city, home to SUSE labs, an inexpensive place to stay eat The time: + April 11th / 12th The (preliminary) plan: + April 11th, ad-hoc presentations, hacking, evening drinks / meal. + April 12th, am: more of the same pm: fun ropes course / team building + check the wiki as time passes for more details. Getting there: + unfortunately, we can't pay expenses, which is sad. + on the other hand, cheap flights cheap hotels shouldn't bust the bank. We're trying to keep the event small friendly, focusing on hard-core coding, and vcl/source/inc/hardcore.hxx type topics. There is no need to speak, but if you have something you want to talk about, please do show up with some slides, and drop Kendy a line with some idea of what you'd like to say. * There will also be a moratorium on overt politics * Inevitably, this being the .cz republic, unless you are careful, there will be a certain amount of walking through forests, and with the ropes course it's worth bringing some good footwear. Please poke Kendy [ NB. not the mailing list ;- ] if you can come. Thanks for reading, Michael, JP team. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Michael, I am sorry but given the way you describe this event, it seems that: - it will be 'hackers' only - nobody will be able to speak politics (ah, those darned politics and politicians, always pointing out awkward things about your employer! Why do they even exist?) which in essence means, that discussions will be managed - you seem to be ignoring the existence of RegiCons, or regional conferences that work very well. In short, you advertise for a Novell event. Notice that I think a Novell event could be an interesting idea, but, as I wrote above, the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me. Best, Charles. Le 6 mars 08 à 19:24, Michael Meeks a écrit : Hi guys, The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague. To re-iterate, this is not an attempt to undermine OOoCon - if you can only afford to go to one conference (money, time, spousal -patience / whatever); go to OOoCon. Having said that, it should be a fun time to sit and chew over the latest developments, problems, and opportunities - while getting to know other people. Conference site: + http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008 The place: + Prague, beautiful city, home to SUSE labs, an inexpensive place to stay eat The time: + April 11th / 12th The (preliminary) plan: + April 11th, ad-hoc presentations, hacking, evening drinks / meal. + April 12th, am: more of the same pm: fun ropes course / team building + check the wiki as time passes for more details. Getting there: + unfortunately, we can't pay expenses, which is sad. + on the other hand, cheap flights cheap hotels shouldn't bust the bank. We're trying to keep the event small friendly, focusing on hard-core coding, and vcl/source/inc/hardcore.hxx type topics. There is no need to speak, but if you have something you want to talk about, please do show up with some slides, and drop Kendy a line with some idea of what you'd like to say. * There will also be a moratorium on overt politics * Inevitably, this being the .cz republic, unless you are careful, there will be a certain amount of walking through forests, and with the ropes course it's worth bringing some good footwear. Please poke Kendy [ NB. not the mailing list ;- ] if you can come. Thanks for reading, Michael, JP team. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...
Charles-H. Schulz wrote (6-3-2008 19:39) Le 6 mars 08 à 19:24, Michael Meeks a écrit : The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague. To re-iterate, this is not an attempt to undermine OOoCon Great to read this. I didn't expect anything else of course... - if you can only afford to go to one conference (money, time, spousal -patience / whatever); go to OOoCon. .. but here I would have expected: choose the great multi-international event in Beijing, whenever possible. And if money is a problem, look at the special offers. If you have more time and interests, don't miss Prague. Having said that, it should be a fun time to sit and chew over the latest developments, problems, and opportunities - while getting to know other people. Conference site: + http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008 [...] I am sorry but given the way you describe this event, it seems that: [...] In short, you advertise for a Novell event. Notice that I think a Novell event could be an interesting idea, but, as I wrote above, the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me. I'm not aware (my fault) of guide lines for RegiCons. But I expect it to be rather low level to set up. So why not try to do some extra's and make a RegiCon of the Go-OOo event? IMO it's great if the Novell OOo team organizes an event and others feel free to join and enjoy. I wouldn't understand why there should be X- of Y-only events :-) Best, Cor -- The Year of 3 -2008- Het jaar van 3 Cor Nouws Arnhem - Netherlands - nl.OpenOffice.org - marketing contact - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
