Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Taran Rampersad]

Jon Cruz wrote:

> Try this link to the World Bank (draft) report...
> 
>
> best,

Thanks!! The 'misquote' is in this particular PDF file (12.8 kb) -
available through the link above:
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ict/resources.nsf/a693f575e01ba5f385256b500062af05/04c3ce1b933921a585256fb60051b8f5/$FILE/financingICT_MediaRelease.pdf

"...The draft report, entitled Financing Information and Communication
Infrastructure Needs in the Developing
World: Public and Private Roles, suggests that considerable progress has
been made in narrowing the digital
divide over the last ten years, but much remains to be done. Rapid
technological expansion over the past decade has resulted in as many as
one half of the world’s households having a fixed telephone line, and as
much as 77
percent of the World’s population is under the signal footprint of a
mobile phone provider. However, many
people in developing countries, particularly Africa, lack access to
basic tools of communication..."

To a cursory writer under a deadline, certain words leap out here. And
those words could lead to the Reuters article in question.

The actual report is a 178kb PDF, and can be found here:
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ict/resources.nsf/a693f575e01ba5f385256b500062af05/04c3ce1b933921a585256fb60051b8f5/$FILE/financingICT_Draft.pdf

Notably, it's a 'Draft for Discussion' which leads me to believe that
the Media release was just timed to correspond with the WSIS stuff. In
my opinion, it probably shouldn't have merited a Media release.

The teledensity (fixed and mobile) actually does show an increase in
technology usage. While teledensity has almost doubled between 1996
through 2002, other regions have kept pace or and exceeded the pace of
the developing countries. The rate of change appears to be increasing in
the developing world, which is nice. From a purely academic standpoint,
it does look like things are getting better - but bear in mind, this is
a matter of meeting the minimum requirements. It also does not reflect
*quality*. This is a quantitative look at things.

Page 12 has a more qualitative look at ICT throughout the world by
region, which is worth taking a look at. Unfortunately, it doesn't have
the time factor involved (I think 3D charts are still available in
Excel. I'm sure that they are in OpenOffice.org's Calc).

This is all actually really good stuff to take a look at, I think. I'm
still digesting parts of it, but one trend I have noted is a similar
trend in other academic papers - using money as an indicator. The beauty
of using money as an indicator is that it tidies things up for academic
papers.

Personally, I think that the Digital Divide work we all do is actually
about increasing the quality of life of people around the world through
more contextual technology use. Using money as an indicator of this is
incorrect, but how does one measure an improvement in the quality of
life? Shall we go around counting smiles? I don't know. It's a problem,
but I still think we can find a better metric than money. If that were
the case, I could flush a few million dollars down the toilet and claim
I spent it on 2400 baud modems for everyone in the country.

And then I have to wonder as well - with all this money being spent...
how does this affect the average person? People without running water
and electricity having cell phones is pretty ridiculous, but that does
happen.

-- 
Taran Rampersad

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jon Cruz]

Try this link to the World Bank (draft) report...
<http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ict/resources.nsf/InfoResources/04C3CE1B933921A585256FB60051B8F5>
best,
--On Friday, February 25, 2005 9:08 PM -0600 "Champ-Blackwell, Siobhan" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This has been driving me crazy, so i used the "Contact Us" resource on
Reuters and asked what report the author was referring to in the article.
I will let you know if i get a response! Siobhan
Siobhan Champ-Blackwell
Community Outreach Liaison
NN/LM-MCR
Creighton University Health Sciences Library
2500 California Plaza
Omaha, NE 68178
402.280.4156/800.338.7657 option#1,#2, then #1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nnlm.gov/mcr
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/
<http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/>
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell
<http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell>

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Andy Carvin
Sent: Fri 2/25/2005 4:26 AM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says



ac: Amazingly, no one here at the Prepcom seems to be aware of the report.
I mentioned it during the morning civil society plenary, and the reaction
was a lot of very confused, very angry faces. There's a new UNCTAD report
circulating here that says that the digital divide is being bridged
"slowly," which is quite different from the wham-bam, just-add-water
solution that seems to be suggested by the Reuters article.
ac
andy carvin
acarvin at edc -dot- org
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Taran Rampersad]

Jacqueline Morris wrote:

>Hi
>Just wanted to say - the WGIG wanted to have consultations in other
>parts of the world (Africa, LAC), rather than Geneva, but the
>resources apparently were not forthcoming.
>Jacqueline
>  
>
I think it would be more fair to say that members of the Working Group
on Internet Governance, as well as members of Civil Society (especially
those not represented in the WGIG) wanted a lot of things, including
consultations in other parts of the world.

The sad truth of the WGIG - and it's fairly public knowledge, though not
publicized - is that the WGIG was not even defined before nominees were
given and accepted. Further, the representatives of the WGIG really had
no say about what would be discussed (or where, for that matter).

Had the WGIG been done with the technology that was being discussed at
the WGIG, there would have been less cost - as both Robert Guerra and
myself pointed out on the Civil Society Plenary list on a few occasions.
Either the WGIG was poorly thought out, or it was well thought out
within the framework that helped create the very problem we are
discussing. Because I know that there are some highly intelligent people
involved, I lean toward the latter.

The WGIG could well have been done without anyone travelling anywhere.
It might have been difficult without the dinner and scintillating body
language, but it certainly would have made the members of the WGIG more
aware of the issues that they were talking about.

When something doesn't happen, it may be because resources weren't
forthcoming. But at the WSIS level, with Civil Society consistently
marginalized, I'd have to say that there was more governmental control
on what should be spoken of instead of what society in general wanted to
discuss - and that extends to Civil Society as well, due to the required
structure for participation in the WSIS. Democracy is much neater
without people. Hypothetically, one could actually install a democratic
government in a country by killing anyone who didn't want democracy -
but that's not really democratic, and sets a poor precedent. Kofi Annan
would probably agree with that.

The sad truth is that technology is already past the WSIS, and it's not
going to wait for the WSIS. The recording industry resisted technology,
and even now it's trying to catch up. Oddly enough, this is a pretty
interesting parallel - considering that the governments with the most
strength at the WSIS have lobbying groups with budgets that would make
many smaller countries blush with envy - and perhaps shame.

-- 
Taran Rampersad

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Taran Rampersad]

ehewitt wrote:

> Hi Taran,
> I like the technology imagery folded into literature. Right on my
> brother!!
> Just to add that the technology "have's" & "have not's" equate to
> being as well the economic/financial/societal "have's" & "have not's".
> The wider & deeper the digital divide the more pressure/tension is
> built up between the "haves" and "have not's" and the quicker the
> clock ticks in the time bomb it assembles itself.

I think of an elastic band that either breaks or snaps back together
violently. I'm wondering how close we actually are to the point where
the elastic either snaps things back where they are supposed to be - or
if it breaks.

> Given this reality the authorities [political/economic/societal] need
> to remember that "For whom the bell tolls? It tolls for thee"
> The appropriate proverb I think is " A word to the wise [ought to be]
> is sufficient"

But wise men perceive approaching things;
http://users.hol.gr/~barbanis/cavafy/wise.html


-- 
Taran Rampersad

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[ehewitt]

Hi Taran,
I like the technology imagery folded into literature. Right on my brother!!
Just to add that the technology "have's" & "have not's" equate to being as 
well the economic/financial/societal "have's" & "have not's". The wider & 
deeper the digital divide the more pressure/tension is built up between the 
"haves" and "have not's" and the quicker the clock ticks in the time bomb 
it assembles itself.
Given this reality the authorities [political/economic/societal] need to 
remember that "For whom the bell tolls? It tolls for thee"
The appropriate proverb I think is " A word to the wise [ought to be] is 
sufficient"
Errol
At 23:18 27/02/2005 -0600, you wrote:
I've held off on this.
*** Taran jumps in, sticking a 'Kick Me' sign on his back and arming
himself with a sharp, pointy keyboard***
Some people read and write papers related to the Digital Divide.
Riveting work in academese, and it's what other people in academia like
- but it's not anything that really has an immediate effect.
Then there are people who find a 'popular' problem, and deal with it.
They become accidental stars because they are related to a particular
issue that gains prominence.
Then there are the people who live around everyday problems, and are
aware of what is really happening within their own sphere of influence -
and sphere of being influenced.
Then there are the people who aren't on the list, don't know what a
Digital Divide list, and so on.
So I don't get a report that can claim that the Digital Divide is
decreasing in any satisfactory way. Not only is the Digital Divide
greater than one region or demographic, the Digital Divide is a abyss
between to disparate groups of people - the technology 'haves' and
'have-nots'. And on either side of this divide, there are people who
constantly feed the divide through either poorly funded or well funded
ignorance.
Then we have the people who fund things by requiring conformity to a
system which segregates rather than finding common ground - and doing
this on many different levels, through control of infrastructure through
a technology-inspired legal system to simply dividing people by race,
geography, culture, gender and things as arbitrary as the Bell Curve.
"...Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right - here I am, stuck in
the middle with you..." (Steve Miller Band)
In a world where Moore's 'Law' is yet to be disproved - where the
complexity of circuits increases by 100% every 18 months or so (I
forget) - and an administrative system for dealing with the issues which
requires at least 3 months to get a paper done - someone has the gall to
tell me that there Digital Divide is narrowing fast because they've
probably blundered into a ford of the Digital Divide, standing in the
center of the river of water we define as the Digital Divide... possibly
on a temporary sandbar built on the eddies and currents of seasonal
rains in a distant land...
Meanwhile, people who are technology 'haves' are only now beginning to
explore technology that is at least an evolution of Moore's 'Law'
behind. Even those like myself, who live in relative time - where a
second with a pretty technology can be a second, but a second with a
calculator seems like an hour...
No. The Digital Divide is increasing, and it's happening even within the
groups that discuss the Digital Divide. The WSIS seems to have found the
least credible technology users from around the world, given them
credibility through a soup of acronyms and a list of titles while
providing funding for more acronyms, more titles.
Verily, I believe that some of the people most in need of having a
bridge across the Digital Divide are the very people at WSIS. This does
not include all of them, by any stretch, but when the WGIG is made up
the way it was and defined only after the nominees were selected... oh,
there's a story to tell there. A sad story reflecting not only the
organizational limitations of the WSIS, but the very limitations which
reinforce the Digital Divide.
And it's a mistake that the very people who are representing the poorer
countries own nice cars, dress nicely and don't look twice at the slums
in their own countries. It *must* be a coincidence. It could not have
been planned. But when people sip cocktails together in Geneva, they
don't talk to the people with blue collars - or the ones who can't even
afford a collar. They reinforce themselves, their opinions...
And they look around, and they talk about what they see - this is only
natural. But they do not see the problems that are out of their perspective.
I say unleash the general public on the web through content management
systems and weblogs. It's the only way to challenge a system based on
broadcasting instead of interaction. It's the only way actual discussion
can take place. It cannot occur with people issuing unsubstantiated -
and completely non-intuitive - press releases. It cannot occur without
PEOPLE, and this is what the present system would have us think.

--
Taran 

Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[BBracey]

In a message dated 2/28/05 4:33:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Verily, I believe that some of the people most in need of having a
> bridge across the Digital Divide are the very people at WSIS. This does
> not include all of them, by any stretch, but when the WGIG is made up
> the way it was and defined only after the nominees were selected... oh,
> there's a story to tell there. A sad story reflecting not only the
> organizational limitations of the WSIS, but the very limitations which
> reinforce the Digital Divide.
> 
> And it's a mistake that the very people who are representing the poorer
> countries own nice cars, dress nicely and don't look twice at the slums
> in their own countries. It *must* be a coincidence. It could not have
> been planned. But when people sip cocktails together in Geneva, they
> don't talk to the people with blue collars - or the ones who can't even
> afford a collar. They reinforce themselves, their opinions...
> 
> And they look around, and they talk about what they see - this is only
> natural. But they do not see the problems that are out of their perspective.
> 
> I say unleash the general public on the web through content management
> systems and weblogs. It's the only way to challenge a system based on
> broadcasting instead of interaction. It's the only way actual discussion
> can take place. It cannot occur with people issuing unsubstantiated -
> and completely non-intuitive - press releases. It cannot occur without
> PEOPLE, and this is what the present system would have us think.
> 
> The digital divide is a vast chasm. For those people who actually get to go 
outside of conventions and the accepted venues , where the "experts" are 
allowed to talk, what they see is very different from what is described in the 
press. Attending the events also gives a new light to the understanding of 
divides 
within the global gathering.   

People, the humans who use these devices get funding from different places 
and this affects who is
sometimes in the conversation, with staying power.

There may be basic needs in technology that can be accomplished using the 
Internet, news, data, some kinds of information. Recently at the APT meeting, 
we 
saw the stroke zone in the US, where there is a group of people trained to 
respond to health emergencies involving strokes within a special network.

Then there are the Navajo in a four state connection in their nation where a 
phone might be sixty miles in a chapter house, from their home, but that is 
the public health network. We don't speak of computer connectivity, because 
that 
is the place where the computers are, the chapter house and phones are a 
rarity in the homes of Native Americans.

If we go outside of the fancy homes and towns in some countries there are 
sights to see that make you feel absolutely useless. I was in a township . They 
had 35 computers strapped down to desks. There was a student in from Sweden who 
was trying to figure out how they were going to use the computers. But the 
problem was one of connectivity and the cost for the electricity, and if then
they worked, what would she be able to use. Meanwhile there were 65 children 
in the halfday
school. All in uniform. No books. The chalk board was the book. I am not 
saying that you have to have books, just remarking on the importance of 
'things". 
There are the same divisions of schools, private, regular, whatever that is, 
and remarkable. 

In Jordan, where I was working, the language ( mine) was a problem, but the 
people of Davos, somehow funded an initiative for the schools , because in 
Jordan many children in the villages who were girls, never went go to school. 
There are other countries where this is true, but in the US we get reports that 
compare apples to oranges. That the population of these countries do better
based on the students who are reported to be in school.

I correspond frequently with friends in India. We talk about the same 
problems.
Gender problems are also a concern. But those who perhaps represent gender, 
may have a different agenda that at this time does not explain, or share the 
problem in ways that most people can understand them. i apologize for 
mentioning 
schools, education and technology in the same breath.
I believe that in this 21st century that when we speak of schools there 
should be some connectivity and some people who are smart technology users. 
Sometimes we are talking to the tech people who love the machines, but who do 
not 
know how to make them real to the people using them.

Bonnie Bracey
bbracey @ aol com

> 
> 

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jacqueline Morris]

Hi
Just wanted to say - the WGIG wanted to have consultations in other
parts of the world (Africa, LAC), rather than Geneva, but the
resources apparently were not forthcoming.
Jacqueline


On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:24:03 -0800, John Hibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 12:57 PM -0800 2/26/05, Jim Vines wrote:
> >It's time to wake up and come to grips that there really is an
> >Illuminati or shadow government that really runs the world. The
> >Internet is seen as a threat to the few hundreds (or a thousand or
> >two) people that dictate government policies from behind the scene.
> >Jim Vines [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Jim, for two decades - maybe three? - I have called what you call
> "The Illuminati" -- The Whiskey Drinkers. I say they meet in London,
> New York and Washington, pull their strings and the rest of us twitch
> according to the tunes they dictate.
> 
> Now, as a result of the Internet, there is a viable opposing force. I
> call them the Lilliputians.
> 
> I have no doubt who will win the battle between the Whiskey Drinkers
> and the Lilliputians. My doubts are: How long will it take?
> 
> I'm 62. Before they put me in the Marble Orchard, will I see if my
> prediction is accurate?
> 
> But here's a much better question: What are the best ways to
> accelerate the work of the Lilliputians?
> 
> John Hibbs
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/johnhibbs
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >Paul Mondesire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Hello Folks,
> >
> >We may be preaching to the choir but those singing need inspiration
> >as well. ;-)
> >
> >>they seem to equate bridging the digital divide with the spread of
> >>mobile telephony, which
> >strikes me as very misguidedSaying that the digital divide is
> >being bridged rapidly makes no sense...because it suggests the job
> >is done, let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these
> >policymakers here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging
> >the digital
> >divide.
> >
> >This is exactly the point of the article IMO. Whoever planted the
> >story was trying to set the agenda so those working diligently to DO
> >SOMETHING to bridge the DD would be forced stop what they are doing
> >and defend themselves. This type of misdirection is commnplace when
> >dealing in a world of limited resources and extraordinarily powerful
> >business/politcal interests who want to maximize their profits and
> >or power at all costs.
> >
> >Conquering the DD is essentially a philanthropic effort, meaning you
> >have to appeal to people on the basis of their desire to work for
> >the greater good. Working with such high ideals in mind is not
> >exactly the most popular activity among those who control the vast
> >amount of financial an other resources. What those folks DON'T
> >CONTROL is the intellectual capacity of people like-minded people
> >determined to reach across the barriers to create new, more
> >effective means for the sharing of ideas and ideals. I think it is a
> >blessing that folks here "get it" and are willing to step up to the
> >plate. I hope to be able to contribute in a more concrete fashion as
> >we move forward. In the meantime, keep fighting the good fight...
> >
> >Paul Mondesire
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> >___
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> 


-- 

Jacqueline Morris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.jacquelinemorris.com
868-680-1895
_
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Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[John Hibbs]

At 4:00 PM -0500 2/26/05, Dave Pentecost wrote:
Thanks to John for bringing this resource disparity to the fore. It
reminds me of the disconnect of environmentalists putting a year's
worth of car driving carbon into the atmosphere for every plane flight
they take to an international conference.
Returning, if I may, to the question - how do we accelerate the work 
of the Lilliputians? --  I have two suggestions:

1) We work like dogs to cause the Lilliputian Community to hold 
conferences virtually - and work equally hard to make ugly all 
Whiskey Drinker Conventions that are held in places like Geneva, 
London, and New York. (If there is an imperative for physical 
gatherings, why not hold them in poor capitals where accommodations 
are less than silken sheeted?}

2) We don't just sing to the choir, we sing to everyone that has 
access to a radio. And that's just about everyone in the world. Let's 
put to work the 80,000 community radio stations that need content of 
a kind we can deliver.


We have the tools and we have Lilliputians of exceptional skill. It 
is past time to begin boycotting conferences that could be held 
virtually. Is is past time to make sure that a substantial percentage 
of the revenues we generate are spent reaching millions well outside 
our choir.

John Hibbs
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[John Hibbs]

At 12:57 PM -0800 2/26/05, Jim Vines wrote:
It's time to wake up and come to grips that there really is an 
Illuminati or shadow government that really runs the world. The 
Internet is seen as a threat to the few hundreds (or a thousand or 
two) people that dictate government policies from behind the scene.
Jim Vines [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jim, for two decades - maybe three? - I have called what you call 
"The Illuminati" -- The Whiskey Drinkers. I say they meet in London, 
New York and Washington, pull their strings and the rest of us twitch 
according to the tunes they dictate.

Now, as a result of the Internet, there is a viable opposing force. I 
call them the Lilliputians.

I have no doubt who will win the battle between the Whiskey Drinkers 
and the Lilliputians. My doubts are: How long will it take?

I'm 62. Before they put me in the Marble Orchard, will I see if my 
prediction is accurate?

But here's a much better question: What are the best ways to 
accelerate the work of the Lilliputians?

John Hibbs
http://www.bfranklin.edu/johnhibbs



Paul Mondesire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Folks,
We may be preaching to the choir but those singing need inspiration 
as well. ;-)

they seem to equate bridging the digital divide with the spread of 
mobile telephony, which
strikes me as very misguidedSaying that the digital divide is 
being bridged rapidly makes no sense...because it suggests the job 
is done, let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these 
policymakers here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging 
the digital
divide.

This is exactly the point of the article IMO. Whoever planted the 
story was trying to set the agenda so those working diligently to DO 
SOMETHING to bridge the DD would be forced stop what they are doing 
and defend themselves. This type of misdirection is commnplace when 
dealing in a world of limited resources and extraordinarily powerful 
business/politcal interests who want to maximize their profits and 
or power at all costs.

Conquering the DD is essentially a philanthropic effort, meaning you 
have to appeal to people on the basis of their desire to work for 
the greater good. Working with such high ideals in mind is not 
exactly the most popular activity among those who control the vast 
amount of financial an other resources. What those folks DON'T 
CONTROL is the intellectual capacity of people like-minded people 
determined to reach across the barriers to create new, more 
effective means for the sharing of ideas and ideals. I think it is a 
blessing that folks here "get it" and are willing to step up to the 
plate. I hope to be able to contribute in a more concrete fashion as 
we move forward. In the meantime, keep fighting the good fight...

Paul Mondesire
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Taran Rampersad]

I've held off on this.

*** Taran jumps in, sticking a 'Kick Me' sign on his back and arming
himself with a sharp, pointy keyboard***

Some people read and write papers related to the Digital Divide.
Riveting work in academese, and it's what other people in academia like
- but it's not anything that really has an immediate effect.

Then there are people who find a 'popular' problem, and deal with it.
They become accidental stars because they are related to a particular
issue that gains prominence.

Then there are the people who live around everyday problems, and are
aware of what is really happening within their own sphere of influence -
and sphere of being influenced.

Then there are the people who aren't on the list, don't know what a
Digital Divide list, and so on.

So I don't get a report that can claim that the Digital Divide is
decreasing in any satisfactory way. Not only is the Digital Divide
greater than one region or demographic, the Digital Divide is a abyss
between to disparate groups of people - the technology 'haves' and
'have-nots'. And on either side of this divide, there are people who
constantly feed the divide through either poorly funded or well funded
ignorance.

Then we have the people who fund things by requiring conformity to a
system which segregates rather than finding common ground - and doing
this on many different levels, through control of infrastructure through
a technology-inspired legal system to simply dividing people by race,
geography, culture, gender and things as arbitrary as the Bell Curve.

"...Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right - here I am, stuck in
the middle with you..." (Steve Miller Band)

In a world where Moore's 'Law' is yet to be disproved - where the
complexity of circuits increases by 100% every 18 months or so (I
forget) - and an administrative system for dealing with the issues which
requires at least 3 months to get a paper done - someone has the gall to
tell me that there Digital Divide is narrowing fast because they've
probably blundered into a ford of the Digital Divide, standing in the
center of the river of water we define as the Digital Divide... possibly
on a temporary sandbar built on the eddies and currents of seasonal
rains in a distant land...

Meanwhile, people who are technology 'haves' are only now beginning to
explore technology that is at least an evolution of Moore's 'Law'
behind. Even those like myself, who live in relative time - where a
second with a pretty technology can be a second, but a second with a
calculator seems like an hour...

No. The Digital Divide is increasing, and it's happening even within the
groups that discuss the Digital Divide. The WSIS seems to have found the
least credible technology users from around the world, given them
credibility through a soup of acronyms and a list of titles while
providing funding for more acronyms, more titles.
Verily, I believe that some of the people most in need of having a
bridge across the Digital Divide are the very people at WSIS. This does
not include all of them, by any stretch, but when the WGIG is made up
the way it was and defined only after the nominees were selected... oh,
there's a story to tell there. A sad story reflecting not only the
organizational limitations of the WSIS, but the very limitations which
reinforce the Digital Divide.

And it's a mistake that the very people who are representing the poorer
countries own nice cars, dress nicely and don't look twice at the slums
in their own countries. It *must* be a coincidence. It could not have
been planned. But when people sip cocktails together in Geneva, they
don't talk to the people with blue collars - or the ones who can't even
afford a collar. They reinforce themselves, their opinions...

And they look around, and they talk about what they see - this is only
natural. But they do not see the problems that are out of their perspective.

I say unleash the general public on the web through content management
systems and weblogs. It's the only way to challenge a system based on
broadcasting instead of interaction. It's the only way actual discussion
can take place. It cannot occur with people issuing unsubstantiated -
and completely non-intuitive - press releases. It cannot occur without
PEOPLE, and this is what the present system would have us think.



-- 
Taran Rampersad

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.linuxgazette.com
http://www.a42.com
http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Rich Vázquez]

A few years back, there were simultaneous reports released in the US.
One said Hispanics were breaking even on the digital divide, the other 
said they were extremely behind.

The difference was the "good news" was determined by whether or not they 
access access to the Internet from the library, school, coffee shop or 
friends house.  The "losing" one was based on whether or not it was in 
the home itself.

--
Rich
AndyCarvin wrote:
a source familiar with the report as informed me that the report was leaked 
prematurely and that the reporter offered a biased perspective, not painting a 
full picture.. I will report when I learn more.
Andy Carvin
acarvin @ edc . org

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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[AJ Mollo]

Here is a link to BBC coverage of the Geneva meetings and related issues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/the_igeneration/default.st
m


~~~
AJ Mollo & Associates
Management Consulting to Professional & NonProfit Organizations
Internet & Multimedia Marketing & Communications
Celebrity Development
Phone: 203.926.1199
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[BBracey]

In a message dated 2/26/05 3:14:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> 
>     o a comprehensive plan that goes beyond hardware and software
>         - it has to include self-sustaining training
>         - it has to include local-language documentation
>     o a plan that allows people to help themselves
>         - it has to include easy cloning techniques
>         - it has to instill pride in the local populace
>     o a plan that allows the more powerful countries to see that they will
>       benefit from raising the rest of the world to their level
>         - we have to help these countries build economy as well as
>           simply help them with access to information
> 
> I have watched a small contingent of people take a small operating system 
> from
> almost zero usage to being a contender against a whole slew of proprietary
> products.  It was a ground-roots effort, with support coming more from
> owner-participants than from large companies.
> 
> Your statement:
> 
> > Good point.  Perhaps smaller gatherings around the world.  Chicago has
> > meaningful communities from virtually every African country, as well as
> > immigrant  groups from Europe, the middle east, the far east, etc.  The
> > headquarters of  Rotary International.  Lots of things to recommend taking
> > this idea seriously.  
> 
> is a step in the right direction.
> 
> I had a thought about approaching International Data Group, owners of the
> worldwide Linuxworld Conferences and making a "Digital Divide" section of
> each event, and I WILL do that.  On the other hand, why limit it to them?
> Why not approach Rotary International and other international groups and 
> have
> them make the Digital Divide at least visible on their list of things to do?
> Make it a part of every one of their meetings.
> 
in the meantime.. your excellent statements would add to the richness of 

this part of the digital divide network. 
 http://www.digitaldivide.net/community/digitaldivideclass

That way others who are not on the DDN can see and react to them. 

Bonnie Bracey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   com

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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[AndyCarvin]

a source familiar with the report as informed me that the report was leaked 
prematurely and that the reporter offered a biased perspective, not painting a 
full picture.. I will report when I learn more.

Andy Carvin
acarvin @ edc . org

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:12:34 -0500 
Subject: RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

This has been driving me crazy, so i used the "Contact Us" resource on Reuters 
and asked what report the author was referring to in the article. I will let 
you know if i get a response!
Siobhan
 
Siobhan Champ-Blackwell
Community Outreach Liaison
NN/LM-MCR
Creighton University Health Sciences Library
2500 California Plaza
Omaha, NE 68178
402.280.4156/800.338.7657 option#1,#2, then #1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nnlm.gov/mcr
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/ 
<http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/> 
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell 
<http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell>  
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Andy Carvin
Sent: Fri 2/25/2005 4:26 AM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says







ac: Amazingly, no one here at the Prepcom seems to be aware of the report.
I mentioned it during the morning civil society plenary, and the reaction
was a lot of very confused, very angry faces. There's a new UNCTAD report
circulating here that says that the digital divide is being bridged
"slowly," which is quite different from the wham-bam, just-add-water
solution that seems to be suggested by the Reuters article.

ac

andy carvin
acarvin at edc -dot- org

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jim Vines]

It's time to wake up and come to grips that there really is an Illuminati or 
shadow government that really runs the world. The Internet is seen as a threat 
to the few hundreds (or a thousand or two) people that dictate government 
policies from behind the scene.
Jim Vines [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

Paul Mondesire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Folks,

We may be preaching to the choir but those singing need inspiration as well. ;-)

>they seem to equate bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile 
>telephony, which
strikes me as very misguidedSaying that the digital divide is being bridged 
rapidly makes no sense...because it suggests the job is done, let's not worry 
about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers here in Geneva who are 
debating how to finance bridging the digital 
divide.

This is exactly the point of the article IMO. Whoever planted the story was 
trying to set the agenda so those working diligently to DO SOMETHING to bridge 
the DD would be forced stop what they are doing and defend themselves. This 
type of misdirection is commnplace when dealing in a world of limited resources 
and extraordinarily powerful business/politcal interests who want to maximize 
their profits and or power at all costs. 

Conquering the DD is essentially a philanthropic effort, meaning you have to 
appeal to people on the basis of their desire to work for the greater good. 
Working with such high ideals in mind is not exactly the most popular activity 
among those who control the vast amount of financial an other resources. What 
those folks DON'T CONTROL is the intellectual capacity of people like-minded 
people determined to reach across the barriers to create new, more effective 
means for the sharing of ideas and ideals. I think it is a blessing that folks 
here "get it" and are willing to step up to the plate. I hope to be able to 
contribute in a more concrete fashion as we move forward. In the meantime, keep 
fighting the good fight...

Paul Mondesire
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 









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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[AndyCarvin]

hi Gaston, 

phone access is certainly a factor, but by most surveys, it is quite secondary 
or tertiary  when compared to more widely accepted indicators like the 
availability of the internetat home or in the community and a community's 
literacy levels. unless you have a smartphone, you can't use most phones for 
full internet access. Unless the ICT in question can provide a person with the 
ability to further their education or career, participate in civic life, or 
help develop their community, then it's not contributing significantly to 
bridging the digital divide as it's usually defined. It may be expanding a 
person's use of basic ICTs, but that's different.

Andy Carvin
acarvin @ edc . org

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:36:13 -0500 
Subject: Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

Now that this assertion has caused so much diverse reaction from the digital
divide warriors, I think it is time to go back and to clarify what is the
common understanding of ''Digital Divide''.
Though I have not seen the WB-quoted report, I am inclined to concur with
the report findings as long as the digital divide is understood on the
provision of simple voice communication enabled-facilities. Indeed, it
cannot be denied that the reforms in the telecom sector through
privatization and liberalization of the data and the mobile segments have
resulted in a fast penetration of these tools in Africa and as recent
statistics from ITU highlight. Mainly, thanks to the contribution of the
private sector. OK, from this angle, no doubt that the digital divide is
narrowing, though the speed at which the gap is being closed may be
discussed. In addition, the DD is not an only African issue as proved by the
current controversy of ''municipal wireless broad band facilities'' in the
USA.

Unfortunately (at least on my view), the DD-debate focuses to much on access
to telephone and the Internet (with the over-used words: ''haves and have
nots'').  But , if  the digital divide is understood in the framework of the
possibility of LDCs and their communities to apply the potential of ICT for
development in a holistic approach, then much remains to perform.
An other  positive effect of this report is that it calls for a review of
what the international community is targeting in the fight to bridge the DD.

Gaston Zongo

- Original Message - 
From: "Andy Carvin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says


> Does anyone have the URL of this report? I can't find it anywhere on the
> World Bank website. But from reading the article, they seem to equate
> bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile telephony, which
> strikes me as very misguided. Unless all of those mobiles are offering
> Internet access, then they're not addressing the issue of ubiquitous
> Internet access, not to mention universal literacy and local language
> content needs. Saying that the digital divide is being bridged rapidly
> makes no sense when many countries still have Internet penetration rates
of
> less than one percent. And it does a huge disservice to policymaking and
> public understanding of the issue, because it suggests the job is done,
> let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers
> here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging the digital
divide.
> I mean, if I were a policymaker or a donor and the world bank just told be
> the digital divide is becoming a non-issue, do you think I might put my
> resources elsewhere? It's already happened in the US, and the American
> digital divide isn't as severe as the international digital divide, so the
> impact international could be devastating...
>
> ac
>
> -
> Andy Carvin
> Program Director
> EDC Center for Media & Community
> acarvin @ edc . org
> http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
> http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
> -
>
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jon maddog Hall]

Hi,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> I guess the report only focuses infrastructure, and then it is not that false
> that the World has more cellulars and more computers.  

The last figures that I had on this was that the number of general purpose
computers in the world (desktops and low-to-mid-range servers) was in the order
of 550,000,000 systems.  Now this number is probably a year old, and certainly
we could have cranked out a few more.

Some people might think that we should have more than that, but I think there
have been a lot of computers that get real old, and are really not very useful,
or burn up, or get flooded, or any number of other thingsso I am willing
to go as high as 1 billion GP computers in the world.

Now I (white, anglosaxen, male, capitalist pig that I am) have about ten of them
in my house, and probably about five or six others that might have fit into
this description of GP computers if you squinted at them hard enough, so I don't
think that 1,000,000,000 is very evenly distributed throughout the world.

When I see recent numbers that say that 30% of the households in the US still
do not have computers, much less connections to the Internet, I just HAVE
to wonder where people get off saying that the Digital Divide is "shrinking
fast".  If the richest country is this way, then what about some of the others?

The last I knew there were towns in Russia that were picking up sticks to burn
in fireplaces outside the schools so the kids could be warm.  We should hold
the next WSIS there...at this time of year.

The point that I am trying to make is that we DON'T even have the machinery
and infrastructure in place, much less all the other stuff.

md
-- 
Jon "maddog" Hall
Executive Director   Linux International(R)
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. 
Voice: +1.603.672.4557   Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A.
WWW: http://www.li.org

Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association

(R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries.
(R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant
   to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus
   Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis
(R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other
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Re: [DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Dave Pentecost]

Thanks to John for bringing this resource disparity to the fore. It
reminds me of the disconnect of environmentalists putting a year's
worth of car driving carbon into the atmosphere for every plane flight
they take to an international conference.

Without someone like Andy tirelessly disseminating the news from these
conferences, the rest of us would be scratching our heads wondering
what is going on. As it is, we are still outside with our noses to the
glass. There is a conference gap in addition to the digital divide.
The sooner we find a way to remedy this the better for everyone.

Best
Dave


On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:42:29 -0800, John Hibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 7:01 PM -0500 2/24/05, Jon maddog Hall wrote:
> >WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in the
> >REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian 
> >reservations
> >in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
> >Digital Divide is not an "African thing".
> 
> If the digital divide is so narrow, why don't they hold them
> virtually? Or, if the digital divide is wide, why don't they hold
> them virtually?
> 
> For those who don't have connectivity, where the divide is wide,
> conference organizers could send bus tickets to the nearest
> telecenterbut if the divide is narrow, anyone of consequence
> could get to a telecenter on foot..or at worst, on bike.
> 
> Like Jim Madddog Hall, this nonsense pisses me off. Plenty of money
> to sit in the front of the airplane and hob-nob in fancy hotels; but
> very little money to provide chalk, water pumps and training to clean
> the chicken coops.
> 
> John Hibbs
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/johnhibbs
> 
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[DDN] Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[John Hibbs]

At 7:01 PM -0500 2/24/05, Jon maddog Hall wrote:
WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in the
REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian reservations
in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
Digital Divide is not an "African thing".
If the digital divide is so narrow, why don't they hold them 
virtually? Or, if the digital divide is wide, why don't they hold 
them virtually?

For those who don't have connectivity, where the divide is wide, 
conference organizers could send bus tickets to the nearest 
telecenterbut if the divide is narrow, anyone of consequence 
could get to a telecenter on foot..or at worst, on bike.

Like Jim Madddog Hall, this nonsense pisses me off. Plenty of money 
to sit in the front of the airplane and hob-nob in fancy hotels; but 
very little money to provide chalk, water pumps and training to clean 
the chicken coops.

John Hibbs
http://www.bfranklin.edu/johnhibbs
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[ictlogist]

Andy said:
> WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in the
> REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian
> reservations
> in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
> Digital Divide is not an "African thing".

good point. and this is specially true when talking not _only_ about
infrastructure, but the other two main basis of digital divide bridging:
- training and/or capacitation
- availability of content and services

I guess the report only focuses infrastructure, and then it is not that false
that the World has more cellulars and more computers. 

But who can use them to improve their lives? 
And who has digital content and e-services they can benefit from?

ismael
ictlogy.net

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Gaston Zongo]

Now that this assertion has caused so much diverse reaction from the digital
divide warriors, I think it is time to go back and to clarify what is the
common understanding of ''Digital Divide''.
Though I have not seen the WB-quoted report, I am inclined to concur with
the report findings as long as the digital divide is understood on the
provision of simple voice communication enabled-facilities. Indeed, it
cannot be denied that the reforms in the telecom sector through
privatization and liberalization of the data and the mobile segments have
resulted in a fast penetration of these tools in Africa and as recent
statistics from ITU highlight. Mainly, thanks to the contribution of the
private sector. OK, from this angle, no doubt that the digital divide is
narrowing, though the speed at which the gap is being closed may be
discussed. In addition, the DD is not an only African issue as proved by the
current controversy of ''municipal wireless broad band facilities'' in the
USA.

Unfortunately (at least on my view), the DD-debate focuses to much on access
to telephone and the Internet (with the over-used words: ''haves and have
nots'').  But , if  the digital divide is understood in the framework of the
possibility of LDCs and their communities to apply the potential of ICT for
development in a holistic approach, then much remains to perform.
An other  positive effect of this report is that it calls for a review of
what the international community is targeting in the fight to bridge the DD.

Gaston Zongo

- Original Message - 
From: "Andy Carvin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:22 AM
Subject: re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says


> Does anyone have the URL of this report? I can't find it anywhere on the
> World Bank website. But from reading the article, they seem to equate
> bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile telephony, which
> strikes me as very misguided. Unless all of those mobiles are offering
> Internet access, then they're not addressing the issue of ubiquitous
> Internet access, not to mention universal literacy and local language
> content needs. Saying that the digital divide is being bridged rapidly
> makes no sense when many countries still have Internet penetration rates
of
> less than one percent. And it does a huge disservice to policymaking and
> public understanding of the issue, because it suggests the job is done,
> let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers
> here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging the digital
divide.
> I mean, if I were a policymaker or a donor and the world bank just told be
> the digital divide is becoming a non-issue, do you think I might put my
> resources elsewhere? It's already happened in the US, and the American
> digital divide isn't as severe as the international digital divide, so the
> impact international could be devastating...
>
> ac
>
> -
> Andy Carvin
> Program Director
> EDC Center for Media & Community
> acarvin @ edc . org
> http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
> http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
> -
>
> ___
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> http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide
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with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
>


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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Champ-Blackwell, Siobhan]

This has been driving me crazy, so i used the "Contact Us" resource on Reuters 
and asked what report the author was referring to in the article. I will let 
you know if i get a response!
Siobhan
 
Siobhan Champ-Blackwell
Community Outreach Liaison
NN/LM-MCR
Creighton University Health Sciences Library
2500 California Plaza
Omaha, NE 68178
402.280.4156/800.338.7657 option#1,#2, then #1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nnlm.gov/mcr
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/ 
<http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/> 
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell 
<http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell>  
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Andy Carvin
Sent: Fri 2/25/2005 4:26 AM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says







ac: Amazingly, no one here at the Prepcom seems to be aware of the report.
I mentioned it during the morning civil society plenary, and the reaction
was a lot of very confused, very angry faces. There's a new UNCTAD report
circulating here that says that the digital divide is being bridged
"slowly," which is quite different from the wham-bam, just-add-water
solution that seems to be suggested by the Reuters article.

ac

andy carvin
acarvin at edc -dot- org

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jon maddog Hall]

Don,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> In a message dated 2/25/05 4:29:42 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:

> Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
> Digital Divide is not an "African thing".
>  

>Andy:

>Good point.  Perhaps smaller gatherings around the world.  Chicago has 
>meaningful communities from virtually every African country, as well as 
>immigrant 
>groups from Europe, the middle east, the far east, etc.  The headquarters of 
>Rotary International.  Lots of things to recommend taking this idea seriously. 
> 

>Don Samuelson
>Chicago

It was not Andy that the Digital Divide was not and "African Thing" and that
it should be held in inner-city Chicago, it was me in my original rant against
the so-called "report" that the Digital Divide was well underway of being
conquered because more and more people have access to telephones.

As probably all of the people on this list know and most understand, the
Digital Divide is a multi-faceted problem of huge proportions.

My latest laugh came from the article that "The U.N. will not bridge the
Digital Divide".  The reporter was trying to do the right thing in saying that
the problem is too big just for the U.N. to mount large meetings once every
two or three years and try to correct the problem from a central source.  In
particular it is impossible for the U.N. to solve the Digital Divide problem
if a large number of those people go to the meeting with a specific agenda
OTHER than solving the problem of Digital Divide.

I do not want to "pick on" the U.N.  I have a lot of respect for a lot of the
people that work there.  But I went to a "Digital Divide" conference session
that they had at a Linuxworld in New York City and all the invited speakers
could talk about was how to make the laws of Intellectual Property strong enough
so they could feel safe selling their very expensive (by the country's
standards) software and hardware into that country.  Nothing about improving the
country's economic infrastructure so they might be able to AFFORD those
products.

The next year I sort of "grabbed" the conference and had the session talk about
the use of Free and Open Source Software in various projects where the
countries helped themselves.  With a little guidance and a little training these
countries went in and formed their own "self-help" groups, and a "reverse
blight" started to happen.

Some countries need more help and guidance than others, but my feeling is that
if the Digital Divide is going to be solved, it has to be:

o a comprehensive plan that goes beyond hardware and software
- it has to include self-sustaining training
- it has to include local-language documentation
o a plan that allows people to help themselves
- it has to include easy cloning techniques
- it has to instill pride in the local populace
o a plan that allows the more powerful countries to see that they will
  benefit from raising the rest of the world to their level
- we have to help these countries build economy as well as
  simply help them with access to information

I have watched a small contingent of people take a small operating system from
almost zero usage to being a contender against a whole slew of proprietary
products.  It was a ground-roots effort, with support coming more from
owner-participants than from large companies.

Your statement:

> Good point.  Perhaps smaller gatherings around the world.  Chicago has
> meaningful communities from virtually every African country, as well as
> immigrant  groups from Europe, the middle east, the far east, etc.  The
> headquarters of  Rotary International.  Lots of things to recommend taking
> this idea seriously.   

is a step in the right direction.

I had a thought about approaching International Data Group, owners of the
worldwide Linuxworld Conferences and making a "Digital Divide" section of
each event, and I WILL do that.  On the other hand, why limit it to them?
Why not approach Rotary International and other international groups and have
them make the Digital Divide at least visible on their list of things to do?
Make it a part of every one of their meetings.

Why not show these groups that bridging the Digital Divide in their own
areas will help them reach out to more people?

I am not a great believer in large groups doing large things.  They might be
able to give guidance and generate some good ideas. To see what grassroots
efforts can do, however, take a look at www.sourceforge.net, with 97 thousand
projects and over 1,000,000 volunteers.

Perhaps Digital Divide needs what we in Linux call an "Uber Project" on
Sourceforge, with other little projects starting underneath in various areas,
so people can see them and exchange ideas, practical code examples and see
projects that worked.

That way the Cathedral of Digital Divide can benefit from the Bazaar of the
world's thinkers, even if

Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Paul Mondesire]

Hello Folks,
 
We may be preaching to the choir but those singing need inspiration as well. ;-)
 
>they seem to equate bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile 
>telephony, which
strikes me as very misguidedSaying that the digital divide is being bridged 
rapidly makes no sense...because it suggests the job is done, let's not worry 
about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers here in Geneva who are 
debating how to finance bridging the digital 
divide.
 
This is exactly the point of the article IMO.  Whoever planted the story was 
trying to set the agenda so those working diligently to DO SOMETHING to bridge 
the DD would be forced stop what they are doing and defend themselves.  This 
type of misdirection is commnplace when dealing in a world of limited resources 
and extraordinarily powerful business/politcal interests who want to maximize 
their profits and or power at all costs.  
 
Conquering the DD is essentially a philanthropic effort, meaning  you have to 
appeal to people on the basis of their desire to work for the greater good.  
Working with such high ideals in mind is not exactly the most popular activity 
among those who control the vast amount of financial an other resources.  What 
those folks DON'T CONTROL is the intellectual capacity of people like-minded 
people determined to reach across the barriers to create new, more effective 
means for the sharing of ideas and ideals.  I think it is a blessing that folks 
here "get it" and are willing to step up to the plate.  I hope to be able to 
contribute in a more concrete fashion as we move forward.  In the meantime, 
keep fighting the good fight...
 
Paul Mondesire
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

 
 
 
 




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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Andy Carvin]

 The date on these documents is 2003; plus there is no mention of this
report on the world bank homepage, news release page or new publications
page. I've talked with countless people here in Geneva and _no one_ knows
what they're talking about.

ac

-
Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
-













  To:   "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  cc:
  bcc:
  Subject:    RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank
Says
"Champ-Blackwell, Siobhan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/25/2005 11:37 AM CST
Please respond to The Digital Divide Network discussion group






















Andy - is it in this section?
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ict/projects.nsf/WSISPublications perhaps
within the "Access Divide Report"
http://info.worldbank.org/ict/WSIS/docs/comp_AccessDivide.pdf

"Three things are worth noting about the results.
First is that a considerable per capita divide in access
to ICTs remains, a divide that yawns wider in
the case of more recent technologies. Second, the
divide is shrinking at an unprecedented pace, especially
on the basis of a measure that looks at ICTs
per dollar of GDP. Finally, the rate of progress in
overcoming the divide is particularly rapid in those
countries that have reformed their telecommunications
sector, suggesting a clear policy imperative
for countries that want to see themselves on the
'right side' of the Access Divide."

Siobhan Champ-Blackwell, MSLIS
Community Outreach Liaison
National Network of Libraries of Medicine - MidContinental Region
Creighton University Health Sciences Library
2500 California Plaza
Omaha, NE 68178
402-280-4156/800-338-7657
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nnlm.gov/mcr/  (NN/LM MCR Web Site)
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/  (Web Log)
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell  (Digital
Divide Network Profile)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Carvin
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

Does anyone have the URL of this report? I can't find it anywhere on the
World Bank website. But from reading the article, they seem to equate
bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile telephony, which
strikes me as very misguided. Unless all of those mobiles are offering
Internet access, then they're not addressing the issue of ubiquitous
Internet access, not to mention universal literacy and local language
content needs. Saying that the digital divide is being bridged rapidly
makes no sense when many countries still have Internet penetration rates
of
less than one percent. And it does a huge disservice to policymaking and
public understanding of the issue, because it suggests the job is done,
let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers
here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging the digital
divide.
I mean, if I were a policymaker or a donor and the world bank just told
be
the digital divide is becoming a non-issue, do you think I might put my
resources elsewhere? It's already happened in the US, and the American
digital divide isn't as severe as the international digital divide, so
the
impact international could be devastating...

ac

-
Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
-

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RE: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Champ-Blackwell, Siobhan]

Andy - is it in this section?
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ict/projects.nsf/WSISPublications perhaps
within the "Access Divide Report"
http://info.worldbank.org/ict/WSIS/docs/comp_AccessDivide.pdf 

"Three things are worth noting about the results.
First is that a considerable per capita divide in access
to ICTs remains, a divide that yawns wider in
the case of more recent technologies. Second, the
divide is shrinking at an unprecedented pace, especially
on the basis of a measure that looks at ICTs
per dollar of GDP. Finally, the rate of progress in
overcoming the divide is particularly rapid in those
countries that have reformed their telecommunications
sector, suggesting a clear policy imperative
for countries that want to see themselves on the
'right side' of the Access Divide."

Siobhan Champ-Blackwell, MSLIS
Community Outreach Liaison
National Network of Libraries of Medicine - MidContinental Region
Creighton University Health Sciences Library
2500 California Plaza
Omaha, NE 68178
402-280-4156/800-338-7657
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nnlm.gov/mcr/  (NN/LM MCR Web Site)
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/blogs/BHIC/  (Web Log)
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/siobhanchamp-blackwell  (Digital
Divide Network Profile)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Carvin
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

Does anyone have the URL of this report? I can't find it anywhere on the
World Bank website. But from reading the article, they seem to equate
bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile telephony, which
strikes me as very misguided. Unless all of those mobiles are offering
Internet access, then they're not addressing the issue of ubiquitous
Internet access, not to mention universal literacy and local language
content needs. Saying that the digital divide is being bridged rapidly
makes no sense when many countries still have Internet penetration rates
of
less than one percent. And it does a huge disservice to policymaking and
public understanding of the issue, because it suggests the job is done,
let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers
here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging the digital
divide.
I mean, if I were a policymaker or a donor and the world bank just told
be
the digital divide is becoming a non-issue, do you think I might put my
resources elsewhere? It's already happened in the US, and the American
digital divide isn't as severe as the international digital divide, so
the
impact international could be devastating...

ac

-
Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
-

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[BBracey]

Well the thought within Washington does not include those even in the US 
without access.
The schools with just a drop are counted.
I always used to write after the wires , what
but now with wireless, I still say that the infrastructure is the first part 
of the equation.

I have been to one of those meetings.

The dissemination of science using the technology is very important so much 
so that CERN created a forum before the WSIS.

 In March of last   year, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan issued 
a challenge to the world's 
scientists. While "recent advances in information technology, genetics and 
biotechnology hold extraordinary prospects for individual well-being and 
humankind as a whole," he wrote in Science magazine, "the way in which 
scientific 
endeavours are pursued around the world is marked by clear inequalities." Annan 
called on the world's scientists to work with the United Nations to extend the 
benefits of modern science to developing countries.


Bonnie Bracey
www.tcpd.org
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/bbracey

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Andy Carvin]

WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in the
REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian
reservations
in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
Digital Divide is not an "African thing".

ac: Amazingly, no one here at the Prepcom seems to be aware of the report.
I mentioned it during the morning civil society plenary, and the reaction
was a lot of very confused, very angry faces. There's a new UNCTAD report
circulating here that says that the digital divide is being bridged
"slowly," which is quite different from the wham-bam, just-add-water
solution that seems to be suggested by the Reuters article.

We've just finished the civil society statements in the plenary, so I'm
going to go on a scavenger hunt and see if I can track down this report. As
soon as I find it, I'll post a summary.

ac

andy carvin
acarvin at edc -dot- org

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Andy Carvin]

 Actually, I wasn't the one who made that point; it was John Hibbs, I
think. But it's still a good point. I'm actually talking to the folks who
run meetup.com about setting up a meetup space for DDN members so they can
organize local DDN activities in their community. Perhaps it might be worth
encouraging people to have their own community summits while the UN is
doing its thing in Tunis next November..

ac
-
Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
-

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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[DSSA310]

In a message dated 2/25/05 4:29:42 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
> Digital Divide is not an "African thing".
> 

Andy:

Good point.  Perhaps smaller gatherings around the world.  Chicago has 
meaningful communities from virtually every African country, as well as 
immigrant 
groups from Europe, the middle east, the far east, etc.  The headquarters of 
Rotary International.  Lots of things to recommend taking this idea seriously.  

Don Samuelson
Chicago
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Gaston Zongo]

Good luck for the hunt for the report and if you find it and it is online,
please give us the URL.

Gaston Zongo
- Original Message - 
From: "Andy Carvin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says


>
>
> WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in
the
> REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian
> reservations
> in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
> Digital Divide is not an "African thing".
>
> ac: Amazingly, no one here at the Prepcom seems to be aware of the report.
> I mentioned it during the morning civil society plenary, and the reaction
> was a lot of very confused, very angry faces. There's a new UNCTAD report
> circulating here that says that the digital divide is being bridged
> "slowly," which is quite different from the wham-bam, just-add-water
> solution that seems to be suggested by the Reuters article.
>
> We've just finished the civil society statements in the plenary, so I'm
> going to go on a scavenger hunt and see if I can track down this report.
As
> soon as I find it, I'll post a summary.
>
> ac
>
> andy carvin
> acarvin at edc -dot- org
>
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[ehewitt]

Amazing!!! This proves that there is a "parallel world"
Errol
At 16:55 24/02/2005 -0500, you wrote:
GENEVA (Reuters) - The "digital divide" between rich and poor nations is
narrowing fast, the World Bank said on Thursday, calling into question a
costly United Nations campaign to bring hi-tech telecommunications to the
developing world.
As some 1,700 international experts gathered in Geneva to prepare for the
U.N.'s World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), the World Bank said
in a report that telecommunications services to poor countries were
growing at an explosive rate.
"The digital divide is rapidly closing," the report said.
"People in the developing world are getting more access at an incredible
rate -- far faster than they got access to new technologies in the past."
Half the world's population now enjoys access to a fixed-line telephone,
the report said, and 77 percent to a mobile network -- surpassing a WSIS
campaign goal that calls for 50 percent access by 2015.
The report said there were 59 million fixed-line or mobile phones in
Africa in 2002 -- contradicting Senegalese President Abdoulaye Wade's
claim at a U.N. news conference last year that there were more telephones
in Manhattan than in all of Africa.
"Unless New Yorkers and their commuter friends have 12 phones each, Africa
now has many more telephones than Manhattan," the World Bank report said.
[...]
http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7731166

Cedar Pruitt
Online Content Manager
EDC Center for Media & Community
http://cmc.edc.org
cpruitt @ edc.org
(617) 618-2185
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Re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Jon maddog Hall]

(sigh)
/* FLAME ON

I can't believe it (or maybe I can)so the entire issue of the Digital
Divide is based on either:

o the number of telephone handsets available to a population
o the coverage of cell towers or land lines going into a geographical
  area

It has nothing to do with the fact that a lot of technical documents are only
available in English, or that the average Chinese worker in the fields has to
work for ten months to be able to afford a shiny plastic disk with Microsoft
Office on it.

The Digital Divide is affected by people not being able to get software
to do what they want it toto speak to them in their own language.  Or in
the case of 10-15% of the Indian population, no language at all.  I guess
that is where telephones come in.  You don't have to read or write to use
a telephone.

The Digital Divide is finished, folksdesolve the mailing list.  Never mind
that a young friend of mine from Columbia has to work three months to get the
airline fees to travel to a technical conference he needs.   I work for three
days for the same goal.  There is no Digital Divide because we both have a
telephone!

The educators in the schools must be relieved to know that all they need to do
is get a telephone handset and the ease of teaching their students with little
or no computers in the classroom, and no connection to the Internet will be
resolved.

WHY do they hold these meetings in Geneva?  Why don't they hold them in the
REAL world, sayNigeria or (dare I say it) Appalacia or Indian reservations
in the South West of the United States?  Or maybe inner-city Chicago...the
Digital Divide is not an "African thing".

You passed along that article just to get a rise out of me, didn't you?

FLAME OFF /*
-- 
Jon "maddog" Hall
Executive Director   Linux International(R)
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. 
Voice: +1.603.672.4557   Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A.
WWW: http://www.li.org

Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association

(R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries.
(R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant
   to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus
   Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis
(R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other
   countries.

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re: [DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Andy Carvin]

Does anyone have the URL of this report? I can't find it anywhere on the
World Bank website. But from reading the article, they seem to equate
bridging the digital divide with the spread of mobile telephony, which
strikes me as very misguided. Unless all of those mobiles are offering
Internet access, then they're not addressing the issue of ubiquitous
Internet access, not to mention universal literacy and local language
content needs. Saying that the digital divide is being bridged rapidly
makes no sense when many countries still have Internet penetration rates of
less than one percent. And it does a huge disservice to policymaking and
public understanding of the issue, because it suggests the job is done,
let's not worry about it, and takes pressure off all these policymakers
here in Geneva who are debating how to finance bridging the digital divide.
I mean, if I were a policymaker or a donor and the world bank just told be
the digital divide is becoming a non-issue, do you think I might put my
resources elsewhere? It's already happened in the US, and the American
digital divide isn't as severe as the international digital divide, so the
impact international could be devastating...

ac

-
Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldividenetwork.org
http://www.edwebproject.org/andy/blog/
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[DDN] 'Digital Divide' Narrowing Fast, World Bank Says

[Cedar Pruitt]

GENEVA (Reuters) - The "digital divide" between rich and poor nations is 
narrowing fast, the World Bank said on Thursday, calling into question a 
costly United Nations campaign to bring hi-tech telecommunications to the 
developing world. 

As some 1,700 international experts gathered in Geneva to prepare for the 
U.N.'s World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), the World Bank said 
in a report that telecommunications services to poor countries were 
growing at an explosive rate. 

"The digital divide is rapidly closing," the report said. 

"People in the developing world are getting more access at an incredible 
rate -- far faster than they got access to new technologies in the past." 

Half the world's population now enjoys access to a fixed-line telephone, 
the report said, and 77 percent to a mobile network -- surpassing a WSIS 
campaign goal that calls for 50 percent access by 2015. 

The report said there were 59 million fixed-line or mobile phones in 
Africa in 2002 -- contradicting Senegalese President Abdoulaye Wade's 
claim at a U.N. news conference last year that there were more telephones 
in Manhattan than in all of Africa. 

"Unless New Yorkers and their commuter friends have 12 phones each, Africa 
now has many more telephones than Manhattan," the World Bank report said. 
[...]
http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7731166


Cedar Pruitt
Online Content Manager
EDC Center for Media & Community
http://cmc.edc.org
cpruitt @ edc.org
(617) 618-2185
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