[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Thanks 4 ur comment Rein! NOBODY
AW: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Comments in text _ Von: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von pd4u_dares Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Juli 2010 15:26 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com <mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com> , "Siegfried Jackstien" wrote: > > Marc . i agree that jose is as dummy . if you see his behaviour in some > situations > > I do not wanna defend him (AS I DO NOT LIKE HIDDEN FUNCTIONS TOO) > > I just like the new mode as it works so well > > I just like experimenting with new "toys" > > That's all > Try PSK31 or contestia to contact VK. I think it is not so much the mode (since how can that be?) but the contact you made that made you favor ROS. I like experimenting and it is a new toy thats why i favor it .. and I wrote that I worked vk and zl with the mode And I had no luck with other modes for such a big distance > > Jose made 3 qrg on 20m band to give more users a chance . > MORE ROS USERS but you surely know that More Pactor, Packet and WINMOR users??? Since that is what I am saying with my "SSTV argument": a growing number of users implies more patience by ROS users, and a better timing when to call CQ for those users. It does NOT imply more calling frequencies. No other mode "claims" three calling frequencies on one band. > > I see only low traffic on 115 most is on 103 and 112 so time will show if > the third is needed A third??? Needed??? More patience and better operating practice is needed for ROS users. As it is needed for all hams in a pileup agree with that stay cool and wait till you et the qso if not try next day > > If I look in the bandplan I see that automatic stations is upper limit 112 > so maybe we shoud use the lower qrg for (low power)beaconing with ros and > only 115 for keyboard to keyboard qsos Better not make QSO's at all in a wideband digi section were "unattended" servers reside It is digital and it is wideband . And can be used as beacon so wherelse as in the digital area should ros go?? Jose changed the qrg several times and asked on the hp for qrg to put it in the soft okay maybe 1 qrg would be easier to find than 3 of them . . It is asking for QRM since often "automatic forwarding" takes place on these frequencies. The frequencies are crowded there already so why try to fit in with a 2200Hz wide mode? Better try to find an "own" watering hole for ROS SINCE it is that wide. It would be like using ROS on the SSTV frequency. But since that is a KNOWN frequency for SSTV, people do not use 14.230 for any other mode. So why not apply the same logic on 14.103/14.112/14.115 since all these frequencies are used almost non stop by billboard systems and alike. ALL USED BY BBS ??? how many qrgs for the bbs??? the whole area??? > > Marc you said only one qrg on 20 for sstv??? I see traffic on 14230 as > centre of activity . but also on 233, 236, 240(digi) Digital SSTV is a completely different mode. Just listen to them and you will know/hear the big difference. The only resemblance between the two is sending pics. So the two modes SHARE the frequency. As i know 240 is digital and the other analog so no sharing And on 14.227 and 14.233 there are no other modes operating on fixed frequencies like packet/pactor BBS do on 14.103, 14.112 and 14.115, that is a big difference. > Same story but other mode ... most traffic is on 230 in sstv .. As it is on > 103 for ros > > And if there is more users on air or other modes using 103 I (and others) > qsy to 112 and 115 > Like the sstv gang is doing . traffic on 230 . move to 233 or 236 > If and ONLY if that frequency is free. And most of the times 14.233 or 14.227 are free. There is rarely SSTV traffic beyond these frequencies except in August during the JASTA contest. Then the "SSTV gang" as you call them, use 14.230 +/- 3Kc/6Kc. But even then during contest most traffic is still on 14.230 So maybe 14.236 would have been a good frequency for ROS, since it is rarely used since it is so close to the SSTV and digital SSTV center of activity and can easily be SHARED with these modes. I hear the ssty guys crying : marc why you said the ros guys to move on OUR qrg??? The calling frequencieS for ROS are most of the time in use, and have been in use for years for many pactor servers or packet BBS. So it was quite incosiderate by José and the ROS users to choose these frequencieS. That is again a big difference. Tell jose better qrg he changed it several times and the digital area is not so very wide Can we move outside the digital area I think not as we have to stay in the digital area written down in the bandplans Moving completely out of digital is not okay I think but others maybe know it better Greetz sigi
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Siegfried Jackstien" wrote: > > Marc . i agree that jose is as dummy . if you see his behaviour in some > situations > > I do not wanna defend him (AS I DO NOT LIKE HIDDEN FUNCTIONS TOO) > > I just like the new mode as it works so well > > I just like experimenting with new "toys" > > That's all > Try PSK31 or contestia to contact VK. I think it is not so much the mode (since how can that be?) but the contact you made that made you favor ROS. > > Jose made 3 qrg on 20m band to give more users a chance . > More Pactor, Packet and WINMOR users??? Since that is what I am saying with my "SSTV argument": a growing number of users implies more patience by ROS users, and a better timing when to call CQ for those users. It does NOT imply more calling frequencies. No other mode "claims" three calling frequencies on one band. > > I see only low traffic on 115 most is on 103 and 112 so time will show if > > the third is needed A third??? Needed??? More patience and better operating practice is needed for ROS users. > > If I look in the bandplan I see that automatic stations is upper limit 112 > so maybe we shoud use the lower qrg for (low power)beaconing with ros and > only 115 for keyboard to keyboard qsos Better not make QSO's at all in a wideband digi section were "unattended" servers reside. It is asking for QRM since often "automatic forwarding" takes place on these frequencies. The frequencies are crowded there already so why try to fit in with a 2200Hz wide mode? Better try to find an "own" watering hole for ROS SINCE it is that wide. It would be like using ROS on the SSTV frequency. But since that is a KNOWN frequency for SSTV, people do not use 14.230 for any other mode. So why not apply the same logic on 14.103/14.112/14.115 since all these frequencies are used almost non stop by billboard systems and alike. > > Marc you said only one qrg on 20 for sstv??? I see traffic on 14230 as > centre of activity . but also on 233, 236, 240(digi) Digital SSTV is a completely different mode. Just listen to them and you will know/hear the big difference. The only resemblance between the two is sending pics. So the two modes SHARE the frequency. And on 14.227 and 14.233 there are no other modes operating on fixed frequencies like packet/pactor BBS do on 14.103, 14.112 and 14.115, that is a big difference. > Same story but other mode ... most traffic is on 230 in sstv .. As it is on > 103 for ros > > And if there is more users on air or other modes using 103 I (and others) > qsy to 112 and 115 > Like the sstv gang is doing . traffic on 230 . move to 233 or 236 > If and ONLY if that frequency is free. And most of the times 14.233 or 14.227 are free. There is rarely SSTV traffic beyond these frequencies except in August during the JASTA contest. Then the "SSTV gang" as you call them, use 14.230 +/- 3Kc/6Kc. But even then during contest most traffic is still on 14.230 So maybe 14.236 would have been a good frequency for ROS, since it is rarely used since it is so close to the SSTV and digital SSTV center of activity and can easily be SHARED with these modes. The calling frequencieS for ROS are most of the time in use, and have been in use for years for many pactor servers or packet BBS. So it was quite incosiderate by José and the ROS users to choose these frequencieS. That is again a big difference.
AW: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Marc . i agree that jose is as dummy . if you see his behaviour in some situations I do not wanna defend him (AS I DO NOT LIKE HIDDEN FUNCTIONS TOO) I just like the new mode as it works so well I just like experimenting with new "toys" That's all Sure it would be way easier if he had a lis and if he knew better how to invoke new stuff to the crowd I often asked him about some things that could be made better . but he has his own thoughts Some things in the soft came from my ideas (example distance calculation) It was ME that sent several dozen mails to users that I have seen in the cluster . just to tell them to shut the autospot off Days before it was ME that wrote how to stop the spotting with a firewall (in versions before there was no switch) Just to make pressure on jose to make that switch available . So I have some same thoughts as you and some are different If I see a pactor station in waterfall I do qsy . others may think ros does it even if there is some other mode on the qrg and send ontop of the pactor station but that's the fault of the user .. not of the developer I just hope that after some time ALL users shut off the spotting Just because I do not want that more and more cluster sysops block ros-spots Sending ontop other stations is not okay . agree 100x100 Jose made 3 qrg on 20m band to give more users a chance . As this mode goes "around the blue marble" with a few watts he programmed the 3 qrg on 20m Now we have only a few hundred users (yet) so when there are a few thousands the 3 qrg are "a must" I think Time will show it ... I see only low traffic on 115 most is on 103 and 112 so time will show if the third is needed If I look in the bandplan I see that automatic stations is upper limit 112 so maybe we shoud use the lower qrg for (low power)beaconing with ros and only 115 for keyboard to keyboard qsos Marc you said only one qrg on 20 for sstv??? I see traffic on 14230 as centre of activity . but also on 233, 236, 240(digi) Same story but other mode ... most traffic is on 230 in sstv .. As it is on 103 for ros And if there is more users on air or other modes using 103 I (and others) qsy to 112 and 115 Like the sstv gang is doing . traffic on 230 . move to 233 or 236 >changing one's motives and mindset is a completely different matter... Right and well said Marc .. Not easy to change joses mind in some cases .. Sometimes friendly asking helps . sometimes you have to give him a kick in his back hi hi (see the sent mails by me as such a kick) I do not know him very well . just had some emails with him and I also do not like all he does . But now we have to live with what we have . just make it wise . Wait if there are other stations ... stay cool . I can wait if there is other traffic . as I know I can work the world with this mode there is no time pressure for me I worked vk4 with a few watts and so there is no next goal for me (so I often only monitor now) But others are new and so they are experimenting like I did in the first weeks 73 Sigi
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Siegfried Jackstien" wrote: > > 3 qrg on 20 . yes it is the most used dx band .. So??? SSTV has been around since 1958 and since then the number of users has grown dramatically, but they only use one calling frequency on 20m. More users imply more patience and timing when to call CQ, among ROS users, because the frequency is in use. It does not imply hard coding more calling frequencies into the software. The result of hard coding the three calling frequencies is that ROS user see these frequencies as "their" frequencies. While in fact the frequency should be SHARED with others. So if the frequency is in use by a pactor client connecting to a pactor server, ROS users should wait until the frequency is free again. But since most users see it as "their" frequency, they just call on top of other modes. That is the daily practice on 144103/14112/14115. Because of that I am often unable to reach US WINMOR servers, while a few months ago I could connect every day. Howcome ROS has three frequencies within a few months? Because of the anti-HAM radio and egocentric behavior of the developer and the users of ROS. So I doubt their intentions and motives Sigi. And have good reasons for that. That's what I'm saying. So it's not about the banned calls list and the auto-spots not existing anymore. It's about the fact that they have been there. The fact that Jose Nieto-ROS intentionally included several functions that contradict common HAM operating practice that is the "problem". Cahnging functions in software is easily done, changing one's motives and mindset is a completely different matter... Marc
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Siegfried Jackstien" wrote: > 3 qrg on 20 . yes it is the most used dx band .. How many phone channels of > 3khz ??? None in the wideband digimode section! None continously on top of packet/pactor/winmor > You argue about the bandwith . as wide as a phone conversation so what? Because it is the wideband digi section of the 20m band where all BBS reside. Remember I was forced to go QSY with my RMS because of the ROS QRM. > Would you also tell the same to any phone operator?!? Hey your voice is 3kc > wide . could you please use cw or psk??? If he is continously calling on top - like most ROS stations do- , yes I would ask him to QSY. > It is another experimental mode . time will show if it is longer used or not You do not seem to get the drift Sigi. It makes no sense to compare ROS with phone. Compare ROS to other digital mode PSE. And then look at it's bandwidth compared to all the other modes. Don't play dumb Sigi... Marc, PD4U
AW: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
it's hard coded banned calls list, it's three calling frequencies on 20m, it's inferior [to contestia] wide band mode, it's auto spotting on DX clusters). "hall of shame" does not exist anymore (as I know) 3 qrg on 20 . yes it is the most used dx band .. How many phone channels of 3khz ??? You argue about the bandwith . as wide as a phone conversation so what? Would you also tell the same to any phone operator?!? Hey your voice is 3kc wide . could you please use cw or psk??? It is another experimental mode . time will show if it is longer used or not (like many other modes) Autospotfunction can now be switched off by the user so we all can switch it off No autospots > no more sysops of clusters will ban the mode Okay joses behaviour in bringing the mode further is not okay . but he made a great software So why not use what we have?!? In the newest version he made a autoreport to pskreporter map As we can see the traffic now on a map we do not need the autospot anymore So hopefully all users will upgrade their soft and switch the spotting off Greetz Dg9bfc Sigi >> plough the land with an M1 Abrahams ... what a nice idea Why not use it for bringing the kids to school? Not very economical but very patriotic . (just kidding)
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Funny you mention - Paper - CHINA - is using ros on 14 meg now .. what ever next ? --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "pd4u_dares" wrote: > > > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Siegfried Jackstien" > wrote: > > > > A gun can be a weapon to kill . or just a sport gun .. for precisely making > > a hole in a paper some ten feet away > > > > For making holes in paper we have perforators. For making holes in people we > have guns. Jose Nieto-Ros has designed a perforator that can kill. > > You can plough the land with an M1 Abrahams too... but that is not what it > was intended for. So in other words: I doubt the "amateur radio" intentions > behind ROS (seeing it's false FEC letters, it's hard coded banned calls list, > it's three calling frequencies on 20m, it's inferior [to contestia] wide band > mode, it's auto spotting on DX clusters). > > As mentioned before: Mercedes puts a speed limiter in their cars because they > feel responsible for their product and it's safety for their costumers. > Mercedes could have said: "it is the driver that drives too hard". But they > don't. Therefor I do not doubt Mercedes' good intentions behind the > development of their products. > > Marc, PD4U >
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Siegfried Jackstien" wrote: > > A gun can be a weapon to kill . or just a sport gun .. for precisely making > a hole in a paper some ten feet away > For making holes in paper we have perforators. For making holes in people we have guns. Jose Nieto-Ros has designed a perforator that can kill. You can plough the land with an M1 Abrahams too... but that is not what it was intended for. So in other words: I doubt the "amateur radio" intentions behind ROS (seeing it's false FEC letters, it's hard coded banned calls list, it's three calling frequencies on 20m, it's inferior [to contestia] wide band mode, it's auto spotting on DX clusters). As mentioned before: Mercedes puts a speed limiter in their cars because they feel responsible for their product and it's safety for their costumers. Mercedes could have said: "it is the driver that drives too hard". But they don't. Therefor I do not doubt Mercedes' good intentions behind the development of their products. Marc, PD4U
AW: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
A gun can be a weapon to kill . or just a sport gun .. for precisely making a hole in a paper some ten feet away So it depends on for what you use that gun I like the sportive way . See how far I can go with a few watts on a simple antenna But others might use it for :how many winmore stations can I make angry . So you see it depends on the users .. .and what are the users .. WE ARE So it is our role to handle the gun safely in a sportive way . not kill somebody So you see I also can tell stories in metaphors Greetz Sigi
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie, VK3AMA" > At least some progress has been made. > Only in a relative sense... I see the current version of ROS as a gun with a silencer on it. It makes less noise, which might be called progress, but it doesn't make the gun less destructive. So it's nature is the still the same. Marc, PD4U
Re: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Hi Steinar, Mr Ros has a habit of rolling out new versions without updating the version number. So my non working v4.8.2 may have been different to yours. Currently v4.8.3 has been updated 3 times today (they way to tell is that the Medifire Link where the files are hosted changes every-time he uploads a new file). v 4.8.3 is not spamming the Cluster based on my tests. So that is progress. Unfortunately the option to turn off spots is ON by default, so users have to go and look for it. I suspect we will still see lots of the Cluster Auto-Spots because the people who didn't block it at the firewall and happily used ROS without regard for the Spam Spots they were generating will be too lazy, or uninterested to find the OFF option. Mr ROS hardcoded another 2 Cluster Nodes into his software in this last release. At least some progress has been made. de Laurie, VK3AMA On 24/07/2010 7:22 PM, Steinar Aanesland wrote: > Hi Laurie > > I have been running the latest version of ROS in a sandbox monitoring > its network behavior with the software "SmartSniff" from Nirsoft > http://www.nirsoft.net over a period of 2 hours. > > ROS was constantly sending information to PSKReporter , but never to the > Cluster. > > But I believe you if you mean it still spams the Cluster and that is > really sad :( > > LA5VNA Steinar > > > > > > > On 24.07.2010 00:21, Laurie wrote: >> Hi Steinar, >> >> Unfortunately, v4.8.2 of ROS still spams the DX Cluster with auto-spots. >> >> Only way to effectively stop is block adif.exe at the firewall. >> >> ROS Auto-Spots too Cluster currently represent 98% of all ROS Cluster > spots, with ROS representing 6.2% of all Cluster spots (7 day period). >> >> As far as I can tell, ROS software is the only Digital-Mode software > that doesn't allow the user to turn off auto-spots (to either > PSKReporter or Cluster) or allow user-selection of Cluster. The user is > not given any choice. All the other software developers are more > Ham/Cluster friendly. :( >> >> de Laurie, VK3AMA >> >> >> On 24/07/2010 2:35 AM, Steinar Aanesland wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> It seems that the latest ROS is not spamming the cluster. >>> >>> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html > Chat, Skeds, and "Spots" all in one (resize to suit) > > Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Hi Laurie I have been running the latest version of ROS in a sandbox monitoring its network behavior with the software "SmartSniff" from Nirsoft http://www.nirsoft.net over a period of 2 hours. ROS was constantly sending information to PSKReporter , but never to the Cluster. But I believe you if you mean it still spams the Cluster and that is really sad :( LA5VNA Steinar On 24.07.2010 00:21, Laurie wrote: > Hi Steinar, > > Unfortunately, v4.8.2 of ROS still spams the DX Cluster with auto-spots. > > Only way to effectively stop is block adif.exe at the firewall. > > ROS Auto-Spots too Cluster currently represent 98% of all ROS Cluster spots, with ROS representing 6.2% of all Cluster spots (7 day period). > > As far as I can tell, ROS software is the only Digital-Mode software that doesn't allow the user to turn off auto-spots (to either PSKReporter or Cluster) or allow user-selection of Cluster. The user is not given any choice. All the other software developers are more Ham/Cluster friendly. :( > > de Laurie, VK3AMA > > > On 24/07/2010 2:35 AM, Steinar Aanesland wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> It seems that the latest ROS is not spamming the cluster. >> >> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar >> >> > > >
[digitalradio] Re: ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster - NOT
Hi Steinar, Unfortunately, v4.8.2 of ROS still spams the DX Cluster with auto-spots. Only way to effectively stop is block adif.exe at the firewall. ROS Auto-Spots too Cluster currently represent 98% of all ROS Cluster spots, with ROS representing 6.2% of all Cluster spots (7 day period). As far as I can tell, ROS software is the only Digital-Mode software that doesn't allow the user to turn off auto-spots (to either PSKReporter or Cluster) or allow user-selection of Cluster. The user is not given any choice. All the other software developers are more Ham/Cluster friendly. :( de Laurie, VK3AMA On 24/07/2010 2:35 AM, Steinar Aanesland wrote: > Hi all, > > It seems that the latest ROS is not spamming the cluster. > > 73 de LA5VNA Steinar > >
