Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
PSKMail uses PSK125 ot PSK63 so it does not use ARQ. Pskmail uses arq on top of psk125. Rein PA0R Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
I have to agree with John on this. When you have 90%+ using MS OS's, some old ones and some newer and some very new, the other OS's struggle to compete, and that means Apple and Linux. And my recent posting on the HFDEC group outlined some of my difficulties with trying the QEMU, Live version, and VMWare approaches to running Linux on another OS. Probably not the best approach compared to native mode applications that work well on the OS they were designed for. Linus is not a bad OS. It is also overrated and the more I used it the less impressed I have become. And I have spent a huge amount of time with it, trying well over a dozen different varieties in the past 5+ years . Every time I attempt to use Linux it either has one or more little problems that don't quite work just right. The reality is that in order to compete with MS, there has to be a compelling reason to discontinue using what you are used to and switching to some other OS. There just is not a compelling reason at this time that I can see. I thought that Vista, being even more bloated, and with incompatibilities, might cause some to move away from MS. And a few have or will, but not many because the OS is not too bad to work with. Since the OS comes with the computer, the cost to the end user is close to zero. Linux, although theoretically can be close to zero, often is much more expensive if you value your time knowledge and purchase of new materials (books especially) to help in the learning curve:( I still enjoy following the progression of Linux on a daily basis and still feel that there will be more adoption over the next decade or so. Even with a MS-OS version of PSKmail, there is no guarantee that it will become popular since it is competing with two other e-mail systems available to radio amateurs. The one thing that PSKmail has over all other e-mail systems, is that it is a decentralized approach to accessing the internet. Winlink2000 requires highly centralized control and permission from that authority to set up a server. In fact, they have only a few servers that can operate on HF, and it may not be easy to access one when you need it. And it requires the expensive and proprietary modem from a single source. The HFlinknet system will not be quite so controlled but will not be something you can set up without permission either. For casual use my view is that this is not a problem, however, for serious emergency use, with maximum flexibility, PSKmail offers the amateur community a way to set up a less invasive system, using sound card technology that allows any ham licensed for a given frequency band, to install and make a server available on an ad hoc basis. I believe that is an important attribute. And down the road, there would be nothing stopping the use of the open MIL-STD/FED-STD/STANAG protocols for higher speeds. It is possible that even the U.S. could someday use the high speed single tone modems on HFwith a change in FCC regulations. And maybe they really work well on HF, even with what seems like impossible waveforms. 73, Rick, KV9U John Bradley wrote: I guess, from my point of view, PSK mail won't really take off until it is written for windows as well as Linnux. Despite the linnux user's best efforts, there are still a bunch of us windows users who have no interest in Linnux, having tried it briefly and found it too difficult to use, and are not prepared to climb the learning curve. Would be more than interested in beta testing a windows version, and prepared to dedicate a broadband internet connection and a station 24/7 John VE5MU Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
If I recall this pskmail is a ARQ type program with a TX RX timing close to Amtor and Pactor. If this is correct, will it still work with this timing? The last time a Amtor type linux program come out it could not do any better then 37.6% of what a TNC did running side by side. Rick and John good points. John, W0JAB
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
Rick wrote: And down the road, there would be nothing stopping the use of the open MIL-STD/FED-STD/STANAG protocols for higher speeds. It is possible that even the U.S. could someday use the high speed single tone modems on HFwith a change in FCC regulations. And maybe they really work well on HF, even with what seems like impossible waveforms. 73, Rick, KV9U The key...a change in FCC regulations. There are commercial modes that have a user throughput of over 2000 WPM with ZERO errors and can provide 100% copy at a -12 dB or better SNR...but they don't run in a 3 KHz channel either. BTW Rick, what is the HFlinknet system? Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
The timing is completely different. Pactor sends 1 block at the time, pskmail bundles 8 blocks in a frame, resulting in a lot less turnaround. Block length is adaptive and changes with channel quality. Amtor was 45 Bd ARQ. Pskmail is 125 Bd ARQ. Pskmail is slower than a 1k2 Bd TNC, but it takes a bandwidth of 125 Hz rather than 12 kHz. 73, Rein PA0R If I recall this pskmail is a ARQ type program with a TX RX timing close to Amtor and Pactor. If this is correct, will it still work with this timing? The last time a Amtor type linux program come out it could not do any better then 37.6% of what a TNC did running side by side. Rick and John good points. John, W0JAB Messages in this topic (0) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 12 New Members Visit Your Group Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yoga Groups Find Enlightenment exchange insights with other members -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
At 03:34 PM 9/10/2007, you wrote: Pskmail is slower than a 1k2 Bd TNC, but it takes a bandwidth of 125 Hz rather than 12 kHz. 12 Khz ? ? ? ? ? So rather then getting a small block rejected you now have a muck bigger one trashed. I fail to see why it is so much better.
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
John Bradley wrote: The purpose of PSkmail is to give portable and mobile users a wormhole to the internet. 73, Rein PA0R I guess, from my point of view, PSK mail won't really take off until it is written for windows as well as Linnux. Despite the linnux user's best efforts, there are still a bunch of us windows users who have no interest in Linnux, having tried it briefly and found it too difficult to use, and are not prepared to climb the learning curve. Would be more than interested in beta testing a windows version, and prepared to dedicate a broadband internet connection and a station 24/7 John VE5MU Well Windows users have WinLink if they choose to use it. As far as Windows vs Linux, I just installed MS Vista Premium Home Edition and MS Office for Vista on my daughter-in-law's new computer and found it much harder than installing Ubuntu Linux and Open Office...I like Open Office much better than MS Office. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
On 9/10/07, John Becker, WØJAB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:34 PM 9/10/2007, you wrote: Pskmail is slower than a 1k2 Bd TNC, but it takes a bandwidth of 125 Hz rather than 12 kHz. 12 Khz ? ? ? ? ? So rather then getting a small block rejected you now have a muck bigger one trashed. I fail to see why it is so much better. John, from my playing around (admittedly ...just a little PSK125 and PSK250 with ARQ work quite well. Under very poor HF conditions one could drop down to PSK31 with ARQ for brief messages but the speed would be very slow. PSK with ARQ does work . I agree with Rick and John about Windows being useful but I can say that it does not take a whole lot to get a Linux boot disc to work, a lot less than getting my old TNC out and booting up packet! -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
Hi Walt, Winlink2000 does not have an HF sound card implementation. They are possibly working on it, but it has been 2 and 1/2 years since they stopped further development on SCAMP (Sound Card Amateur Messaging Protocol) when they discovered that it would not be possible to get it to work with weak signals. I have reinstalled Vista Home Premium and installed numerous Linux variants and I would say that none of them are very difficult but Vista surprised me in that it was quite fast and easy to reinstall. The MS product is finessed a bit better and you generally don't have to worry about whether it will work with your soundcard/monitor/wireless ethernet/etc., but this is a continuing problem with Linux. As a long time MS Office user who changed to Open Office a couple years ago, I would have to say that MS Office is a slightly better product in terms of use. Particularly with compatibility since they wrote the design and made it difficult for others to reverse engineer the protocols. I use a lot of tables and so I am somewhat biased against OO which does not work as well with that one issue for me. But OO Writer does not have the horrific bug that I think was never fixed in MS Word that can trash your entire document. It does not occur very often, but can be a problem with very large hundred + page docs with complicated formatting. My understanding is that because of the difficulty maintaining the Windows programs and OS, they could never find the problem so it is likely still there. I used to make frequent backups because just making one little maneuver with multiple pages of tables in Word would trash the entire file:( But in the final analysis, when you compare free with $500 or so, I will go with OO:) 73, Rick, KV9U Walt DuBose wrote: Well Windows users have WinLink if they choose to use it. As far as Windows vs Linux, I just installed MS Vista Premium Home Edition and MS Office for Vista on my daughter-in-law's new computer and found it much harder than installing Ubuntu Linux and Open Office...I like Open Office much better than MS Office. Walt/K5YFW
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail............... lack of stations
John Becker, WØJAB wrote: If I recall this pskmail is a ARQ type program with a TX RX timing close to Amtor and Pactor. If this is correct, will it still work with this timing? The last time a Amtor type linux program come out it could not do any better then 37.6% of what a TNC did running side by side. Rick and John good points. John, W0JAB PSKMail uses PSK125 ot PSK63 so it does not use ARQ. Of course if you like, you can probably many modems as a front end to PSKMail if you choose to do so. SV1UY I believe has run PSKMail using RFSM2400. Walt/K5YFW
