Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
Feel free to check out The Synchronizer, a plugin which allows you to predefine sets of players that are synced, and rapidly switch between them. It's not very dynamic, if that's what you're after, but it might do some of what you're hoping for. http://www.koldware.com/SlimStuff or in my repository, http://www.koldware.com/SlimStuff/repodata.xml Eric -- kolding SqueezeBox 2 - Rotel RSX-1056 - Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers SqueezeBox 3 - Rotel RX-1052 - Vandersteen 1B's SqueezeBox Boom SliMP3 and Squeezebox 1 - Retired kolding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
erland;379335 Wrote: Is there a plan on how it will be changed ? I'm starting to think that we might want to configure zones where you can have overlapping zones. For example: - Livingroom zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom - Bedroom zone --- SB Boom in bedroom - Kitchen zone --- SB Boom in kitchen - Whole house zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom --- SB Boom in kitchen --- SB Boom in bedroom - Daily zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom --- SB Boom in kitchen When when we want to be able to control a zone instead of a single player. The default installation should of course have a zone per player automatically configured by default so the user only have to configure any multi player zones. So instead of choosing player I would be able to choose a zone and select what to play in that zone. When I play something in the Daily zone it will make sure that SB Classic in Livingroom and SB Boom in kitchen in the same sync group and remove any other players from that syncgroup and start playing. The IR controll and Boom interface would control the zone which the player currently is controlled by. If it's not controlled by any multi player zone it would control the local player. I'm not sure how big change this will be since there aren't any zone concept in SqueezeCenter today. It may be something to try out as a plugin first before we change it as standard. A solution like this will add a small complexity when setting up the zones but it will IMHO make it a lot easier when you want to select what you want to play where. Do you think this would work ? Would it be better than a solution that controlled single players ? I like that, that basically exactly what i have in my mind. Basically on the home menu you would see Choose Player and also Choose Zone, which would be like the one you created above plus a Create New Zone option. Maybe 'Zone' would need to be called 'Player Group' or 'Sync Group' to be original ;) For me the volume control also needs improving - you should just be able to go into the Choose Player menu, highlight (but not select and connect to) a player - and while that player is highlighted the volume buttons alter that player (even though you are 'connected' to another player). You could then change volume of all players very quickly and slickly. I have lost track of the many threads and discussions on this area, so sorry if i am repeating what have been said many times already - although it does need to be said again :) -- autopilot *Lounge :* Squeezebox Classic - Cambridge Audio Azur 640a - Mission 701's. *Bedroom :* Squeezebox Receiver - Trends TA10.1 Class-T - Kef Cresta 1's *Office :* Softsqueeze - Logitech Active 5.1's. *Kitchen :* Squeezebox Boom -coming soon- *Roaming : * Squeezebox Controller - Logitech mm28 portable speakers / Shure E2c's *Controllers :* Squeezebox Controller x 2 + Logitech Harmony one *Server :* SC7.3.1 (Vista 64) + AlienBBC, iPlayer MusicIP headless. 'LAST.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/domrevans/) autopilot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1763 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
Re. Other Players plugin: alas, though its interface hasn't changed, what goes on underneath has: syncing from A to C unsyncs A from B, and loads C's playlist into A. Obviously it still pushes the same buttons, but SC has changed what the buttons do :-( . So multiplayer syncs are still no easier. The zones proposal suggested here sounds pretty similar to what can be done with The Synchronizer now, though that still has to designate one player as the master. I guess that if the Controller said Whole House rather than Living Room then I'd stand a better chance of not disturbing SMBO's early night :-) However, I almost always want to control the individual players' volumes separately, and it's harder to see how that would fit into the interface model; if the Controller's set to House, then how could I turn down in just the living room? I do like the idea of a quick way to adjust the volume of a different player. A common situation for me is that I start playing stuff, and then realise that I want it to play elsewhere in the house too. So I really want a mid-track sync with multiple players that definitely works in the direction I expect (and doesn't suddenly change direction between upgrades, please). Of course, this is possible in 7.3, just a bit more tedious than it was before; and unlike before, crossfade now works (if anything, getting it to stop working is the trick!) -- Brian -- Brian Ritchie Brian Ritchie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2319 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
You REALLY should try iPeng ;-) -- pippin --- see iPeng at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
The backend sync code has been completely overhauled over the past couple of major revisions. However the interface hasn't. I agree that this is a great shame. However the developers have recognised it as a failing of the system as it stands and it will be addressed in the next revision. -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
I couldn't agree more! I think the sync (multi-zone) ui of squeezecenter really needs to be revamped. Please take a look at the Sonos interface or other multi-zone interfaces for good examples. -- ScAndal ScAndal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16141 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
try iPeng :-) -- pippin --- see iPeng at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
Would use iPeng is I were a iPhone user. I have 3 SB Controllers that I use, and on occasions the web interface. UpstateMike - The sync play itself works much better in 7.3+, including much better music service sync (Slacker, Rhapsody, etc.) To Logitech's credit they have also overcome the Rhapsody 3 player limit! - I'm simply upset about how difficult it is to sync and unsync multiple players in the Web and SBC UI. -- morgan4x4 morgan4x4's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=243 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
ScAndal;379104 Wrote: I couldn't agree more! I think the sync (multi-zone) ui of squeezecenter really needs to be revamped. Please take a look at the Sonos interface or other multi-zone interfaces for good examples. There's a fundamental difference between RF-based interfaces like the Squeezebox and Sonos controller units and interfaces based on physical buttons and IR remotes. With a nearby UI like the Boom knob or Classic UI, the pull sync model is more apt. It makes more sense to change what's playing on the nearby player than foist changes on a distant player. With roaming interfaces like the Controller, push makes more sense -- with RF-based UIs, the focus is the playlist, not the player. SqueezeCenter 7-7.2 got one thing right: each UI offered the most appropriate sync model for that UI. But it used the same simple word, sync, which made it confusing for those of us with both Controllers and Boom/Classic/Transporter units. 7.3 fixes the linguistic confusion, but the cost is awkwardness in the roaming interfaces, esp. the Controller, as switching between controlled players is still a little sluggish. Sonos has it easy, they only have roaming/RF. SqueezeCenter needs to address RF/web and IR/buttons. None of the 7.x releases have done that as well as anyone, including Logitech/Slim Devices, would like. -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ free plugins: http://www.tux.org/~peterw/#slim AllQuiet BlankSaver ContextMenu FuzzyTime KidsPlay KitchenTimer PlayLog PowerCenter/BottleRocket SaverSwitcher SettingsManager SleepFade StatusFirst SyncOptions VolumeLock peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
morgan4x4;379119 Wrote: Would use iPeng is I were a iPhone user. I have 3 SB Controllers that I use, and on occasions the web interface. UpstateMike - The sync play itself works much better in 7.3+, including much better music service sync (Slacker, Rhapsody, etc.) To Logitech's credit they have also overcome the Rhapsody 3 player limit! - I'm simply upset about how difficult it is to sync and unsync multiple players in the Web and SBC UI. an iPod touch isn't more expensive than a controller, and you've got three of those! It's worth a try, believe me :-) -- pippin --- see iPeng at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
PeterW, confusing to who? Did Logitech get compaints about the word sync un different intefaces? Hard to believe that csonsumers that have moved to the SBC will do a lot of, if any, syncing on the SB physical devices. For me it was a no-brainer switching between controller, web and SB2 units. Now I am more confused than ever - see my Study / Dining Room sync example. Seems as if the desire to have everything operate the same overrode common sense. Anyway, my only hope is that the future holds a remedy to this problem! -- morgan4x4 morgan4x4's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=243 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sync Interface Rant
Excuse me while I spend a few minutes on a rant about the absurty of the new sync UI in 7.3+. First a bit about my setup - Nine zones controlled by SB2s and SBR's, and three controllers. On any given day I might add together the master bedroom and master bath, or alternativly let my wife sleep while listening in the bathroom. Sometimes I want all zones on for whole house, and other days a single zone in my office is all I need. Previously I simply checked boxes to bring players in and out of a zone. now I have to follow a sequence of switching players, then syncing, then switching players, then syncing, then switching player, then syncing - up to 8 times. Unsyncing is just as ridiculous. The Logitech folks claim this was all in the spirit of making things consistent across devices. Huh? You have now made if difficult across all interfaces! What a philosphy - make things more difficult just so they work the same. I do not understand this at all. Other quirks with the new interfact are just as interesting. An example: I have a sync'd zone, say study and dinig room. I start a song from the controller attached to study. I then go to synchronize, and remove the dining room from the sync group. Guess what - the study stops and the dining room continues playing! Huh? PLEASE make this useable - if you want to play in the same league as Sonos, you need to make bringing players on and off easy! Many thanks! -- morgan4x4 morgan4x4's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=243 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
I was looking forward to upgrading to 7.31 precisely for the fact that it is supposed to improve synchronized payback but now you have me worried that I should wait for a later release. I thought synchronized playback was supposed to be one of the core technologies and key reasons for buying multiple streaming music players. I'm kind of surprised that this isn't more polished and that features like pre-defined groups of players that you can enable in a single step, or add as a group to a larger synch group, are not supported in the main sofware release. I think some features (and maybe more rational controller menus?) are available through plugins but shouldn't this be part of the core development? -- upstatemike upstatemike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
Even with only 3 devices that I sync (in various permutations), I too find the new sync behaviour a bit of a pain. In part it's just a learning experience, I think. If I'm in the living-room and realise I have to go upstairs for a while, I *guess* what I need to do is switch the controller to Upstairs, then ask to sync with the Living-room (or its group). But there's no quick way to synchronise all three players. I find the Synchroniser plugin more useful; and though it lets me create predefined sync groups (each with a designated master), I end up using its sync all others to this player option most of all. Only trouble is, it only seems to work if the master is stopped (not just paused), which renders all the nice mid-play sync work pointless. (A slight secondary problem of my own making was that after doing sync all to this one day, a few minutes later, I noticed a tinny echo of the music, which I eventually realised was coming from the Controller. Yes, I'd enabled the controller as a player, so of course it was included...) I miss the Other Players plugin (which wasn't available for 7.3 last time I checked); I found it intuitive and (a real boon) didn't have to keep changing players in the Controller in order to sync in either direction, or to grab/send the current playlist. I think I'm falling foul of another quirk with sync (but really need more tests to confirm): if any player in a group had crossfade enabled before sync, then even if it wasn't the master, the sync group will crossfade. The settings for the master still show No Crossfade. So then I have to cycle round the players to find the culprit and change it. It would seem more intuitive to me for the sync group to use the master's settings. (Quite right though that uniform volume control is optional.) -- Brian -- Brian Ritchie Brian Ritchie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2319 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
Brian Ritchie;379287 Wrote: I miss the Other Players plugin (which wasn't available for 7.3 last time I checked); Check again :-) -- pippin --- see iPeng at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
pippin;379292 Wrote: Check again :-) Yes, just did - started with General and worked down to 3rd Party Plugins. If only I'd worked up the list, not down :-) -- Brian -- Brian Ritchie Brian Ritchie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2319 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
morgan4x4;379179 Wrote: PeterW, confusing to who? Did Logitech get compaints about the word sync un different intefaces? Hard to believe that csonsumers that have moved to the SBC will do a lot of, if any, syncing on the SB physical devices. For me it was a no-brainer switching between controller, web and SB2 units. Now I am more confused than ever - see my Study / Dining Room sync example. Seems as if the desire to have everything operate the same overrode common sense. In fact, they did get complaints -- search these forums and you'll see them, as well as an active discussion of alternatives. And yes, a lot of people do still use combinations of SBC, IR remotes on SB classics, and web ui to control sync'ing. I see problems with both ways, but I agree that the 7.3.x ui is a step backwards. -- aubuti Nothing high-end, but music anywhere I want it. MSI Wind desktop (Ubuntu 8.10) feeding: Basement: SB2 JVC JA-S44 ESS Tempest LS8; Kitchen/Dining: Duet AudioSource Amp100 2 pairs Polk RC60i; Living room: SB3 Technics SA-EX140 Bose Acoustimass 3; Bedroom: Boom + SBC; Study: Duet Klipsch ProMedia 2.0; Kid's bedroom: SB2 Klipsch ProMedia 2.0 http://www.last.fm/user/aubuti/ aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
What do you all think of the proposal I described here: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6806#c13 ? -Peter -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ free plugins: http://www.tux.org/~peterw/#slim AllQuiet BlankSaver ContextMenu FuzzyTime KidsPlay KitchenTimer PlayLog PowerCenter/BottleRocket SaverSwitcher SettingsManager SleepFade StatusFirst SyncOptions VolumeLock peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
The Old behaviour maked perfect sense to me too. But I've learned now I just do the *opposite* of what feels right. It is way to many player switches involved even with two players. -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sync Interface Rant
funkstar;379064 Wrote: However the developers have recognised it as a failing of the system as it stands and it will be addressed in the next revision. Is there a plan on how it will be changed ? I'm starting to think that we might want to configure zones where you can have overlapping zones. For example: - Livingroom zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom - Bedroom zone --- SB Boom in bedroom - Kitchen zone --- SB Boom in kitchen - Whole house zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom --- SB Boom in kitchen --- SB Boom in bedroom - Daily zone --- SB Classic in Livingroom --- SB Boom in kitchen When when we want to be able to control a zone instead of a single player. The default installation should of course have a zone per player automatically configured by default so the user only have to configure any multi player zones. So instead of choosing player I would be able to choose a zone and select what to play in that zone. When I play something in the Daily zone it will make sure that SB Classic in Livingroom and SB Boom in kitchen in the same sync group and remove any other players from that syncgroup and start playing. The IR controll and Boom interface would control the zone which the player currently is controlled by. If it's not controlled by any multi player zone it would control the local player. I'm not sure how big change this will be since there aren't any zone concept in SqueezeCenter today. It may be something to try out as a plugin first before we change it as standard. A solution like this will add a small complexity when setting up the zones but it will IMHO make it a lot easier when you want to select what you want to play where. Do you think this would work ? Would it be better than a solution that controlled single players ? -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) 'My download page' (http://erland.isaksson.info/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57660 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
