Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Here's some advice Mitchell J. Stein. Instead of posting on public boards about spending over $50k for your listening pleasures, how about paying your current debts? That MGM judgment alone is $1 million against you and all the others are mounting. Your name is popular on search engines, Mitchell J. Stein. The whole ipod talk, the bragging of money you spend, the doberman avatar, and the lying about your fitness was a dead giveaway. Mitchell J. Stein;364902 Wrote: I am an audiophile from the 70s. While I haven't lost my shape or my athleticism, apparently I have lost everything I knew about rock 'n roll sound from the 70s. In the 70s, it was about total harmonic distortion, bandwidth, and power. Now, it is about DAC, soundcards, and . . . somehow . . . tubes. Tubes predated the stuff I learned in the 70s! So, somebody has got to help. I have a very simple question, and I'm not going to bore you with the background of why I'm asking the question. I have homes, home theaters, family rooms, old klipsche speakers, bose 901 series III and the rest of it. But I also have a small office that I call my own and that is from where I am typing this post. In the office, I have a kick-ass computer with a huge screen next to my face. I also have a 56 inch Phillips television. Now, my problem. I got talked into buying a Logitech 5500 and have it hooked up to the television and the IPOD home dock. The television sounds great even though DECCO tells me I'm full of and my home theater guy tells me I'm crazy. As an audiophile (or at least a wantabee audiophile, or a rusty one), I use my ears. The 5500 -- even though it is cheap and filled with plastic -- sounds just fine in this room when played through the television. However, the IPOD home dock sounds good only on SOME rock 'n roll songs. On others, it sounds HARD, ONE DIMENSIONAL, IMPERSONAL and not like the old ADVENTS I used to run against my 1968 tube McIntosh amplifiers 30 years ago. So, what to do? Do I spend $40,000 and re-tube the joint alongside all this computer equipment? Three experts have told me yes. Others have told me I am challenged. And, then, there are the few new folks (all below the age of 25) who have told me to forget the tubes, forget DECCO, forget Panasonic and just get the squeezbox and that it will not only CONTROL MY THEATER, MY BEDROOM, MY FAMILY ROOM, MY KITCHEN, MY STUDY AND EVERYTHING ELSE but that the squeezbox will also blow my mind regarding . . . DAC. Is my problem the Z 5500 or the lack of a good DAC connected to my IPOD? Is the duet a good DAC? What in the world is a DAC and why is so important? Why should I be able to pay $500 for a Z5500 and get great sound just because I bought a duet? Isn't that violative of all the laws regarding tubes, signal to noise ratio, bandwidth, total harmonic distortion, etc., et al.? Now, my second problem. If the duet really does the trick and bypasses the problem of my IPOD not having the proper DAC, then why am I not just buying the Transporter? Wouldn't the Transporter make this $500 Z5500 blow away anything else I could play in this very small (600 square feet) personal office? If DAC is so important, why am I not buying the Transporter for my personal office -- and a bunch of duets for the rest of the house (the rest of the house has tremendous equipment; athena speaker systems; powerful power amps; expensive integrated amps, etc.)? I am just upset because I have these very inexpensive Z5500 speakers and I kind of like the sound off of the TV. So, if the sound is good, why am I going to do something else? Does the Transporter even have anything to do with DAC? Does DAC have anything to do with final sound or with my emotions upon hearing the sound, if the end player is merely the Z5500 which boasts a paltry 10% total harmonic distortion (I am sophisticated enough to realize that digital has no distortion so 10% is a false figure -- but, still 10% seems very high doesn't it?)? Please just tell me: A. Should I throw the Z5500 away? I like the way it sounds through my TV, but I can't stand the IPOD sound on SOME SONGS ONLY (e.g., it rocks with Dazed and Confused but sounds terrible -- like an old a.m. transistor radio -- on Jailhouse Rock). B. Will the duet improve the sound of my ITUNES as it is played through the Z5500? C. Are the people at DECCO correct when they say no DAC makes a difference if you don't have the old tubes, audiophile, 70s equipment? This is illogical to me, but I haven't a clue what is going on at this point given the intrusion of computers, sound cards and the rest of it into the fray. D. If the duet is likely to improve this, is it really possible to make the Z5500 (which costs $500) a saintly audio system by using the Transporter? Can the Transporter transport the Z5500 into the next galaxy? Why? I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I've
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Thanks for the compliment, but I was merely spitting back what you guys told me. Again, the only issue is whether this de-apple-ization of the Doberman will lead to a mid-life crisis. Certainly, my intake of Whey will increase along with my military presses. Hope springs eternal on all fronts. Sad. By the way Audials One -- $50 -- was the system I used to rip apart the thievery created by Apple and my Ipod. All of my tunes are now in Windows Media Player (thanks to Audials One), sitting nicely waiting for the Duet to transport them to the nearest way station (Heaven Can Wait, Warren Beatty, 1980). I'll wait for the Apple Police to get here, then I'll take them to court -- I am a trial lawyer and I am pissed off. Here, I downloaded 7,000 tunes from I Tunes (everything except the Beatles) and then I learned that I am a miniature turtle, stuck inside of an IPOD. Then, they try to sell me all this equipment that digitalizes the Steeler football games. I've been to all 6 Super Bowls in person, and the answer was NO NO NO NO NO NO. So, I was mistaken on the price of my little saintly system that I will use most days: Logitech z5500 - $400.00 Logitech Duet - $400.00 Audials One- $ 50.00. (Plasma TV - they cost virtually nothing now, and use a Coaxial cable as it sounds the best; it plugs right into the coaxial input of the piece of shit z5500 if that is what you use -- since everybody says they are bad news, you can get one almost anywhere.) Now, don't get me wrong. My Phillips is 50 or so. But my theater room is 100. So, on the big football games, I'll go into the media room. But not if I can help it. I like this z5500 -- it just sounds good. Otherwise, as I said, you can't get me out of here. And, in a day or two, every room will have a squeeze box just so I can control the house from in this small study. Eventually, it will be the movie Psycho. I looked at your website and background and you obviously know what you are doing. You've got the two squeeze boxes -- one wired and one wireless. You figured it out -- probably long ago. I wish I had learned sooner. You can only listen to Stairway to Heaven in a virtual stairway so many times before you say enough is enough. Peace, and thanks. Mitch. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Mitch, you may not believe this but i had guessed you were not only a lawyer, but a steelers fan. call it a premonition. (i'm an eagles fan, 9 sacks btw, and a PSU guy as well) in any case... i have some possible bad news for you. itunes really is the devil. it sounds like you were able to defeat the DRM on it, and thats great, but there are at least two other related concerns i'd have with music from apple. the first is that the music you got from apple might have already been compressed, and i don't mean the file format. what i mean is who knows how apple masters the tracks b4 it makes them available for download? it wouldn't surprise me in the least if in an effort to make them louder, they compress them at the source, which is a headroom and bass killer. similarly, itunes itself applies changes to your local files. i'm not 100% on how it does it, if it uses innocuous replaygain tags, or something sinister like applying compression or actual gain changes / normalization to the file/music itself, but here again we see apple doing as it pleases. i'm not saying delete all your tunes, but considering your enthusiasm, i would consider getting the source CDs and making FLACs out of them. and if you like the Rolling Stones as an example, the 2002 remasters with 24bit sound blow away the original releases. its night and day. allmusic.com can help many times identifying which remasters sound best. (but this is a whole nother story, just wanted to clue you in) one thing i was curious about in your post, it seemed like you were saying that going duet analog z5500 was the way as opposed to duet digital z5500. is that correct? i do the same thing essentially, b/c the DAC in the SB is better than whats in my receiver. (btw, SBs have a slightly better DAC than the Duet, but i would never hear the difference. however, you should get a SB2 or SB3 just for the neat visualizations it does, like the EQ or VU meters, which i consider very retro 70s and fun) -- MrSinatra www.LION-Radio.org Using: Squeezebox2 (primary) / SBR (secondary) / SBC - w/SC 7.3b - Win XP Pro SP3 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655 MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
And realize, once you have ONE duet, you can add additional receivers - either SBR (the receiver half of the duet) and use to Controller (SBC) from the duet to configure it. OR... you can get the Squeezebox Classic (aka SB3), which can be controlled with the original duet's controller or its own IR remote (or universal remote), AND it has display. (I just say this because your low price description includes $400 per location for Duet, but the SBR is $150, or a SB Classic is ~$250). Also, consider cleaning up your library... if you are sold on iTunes, work on ripping stuff to the Apple Lossless format, OR leave the Apple proprietary formats altogether and start transitioning to FLAC. Who knows, you might be able to get all those other systems to actually sound BETTER than the SBR/Z5500 combo! Good Luck! -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Mr. Sinatra: Thanks again for helping me. Yes, the Phil. Eagles got to Big Ben. No, the Eagles will not win the Super Bowl. It will be the Giants against the Steelers. Except for the punt over the goal post deal, Pgh. already beat up the Giants. It will be a good game. (I am not counting the Eagles out yet, but they did kick our butts now didn't they!) Your description about ITUNES' criminality explains a strange thing that happened when I ripped those tunes out of ITUNES and re-compressed them, uncompressed them, and then put them through some warmth. Now, those tunes are playing through the Duet and people are having sex 12 blocks away from here. The strange thing is this: You guys told me not to use MP3, so I used WAV at first. WAV is professional grade engineering. It is the standard. My father in law wrote about 200 famous rock and roll songs -- neat guy. He told me to do it. Forget the fact that the ripping took WAY TOO LONG AND it didn't carry the artwork with it. How about this: After it was done it sounded TERRIBLE. I couldn't understand. I ate my wheaties, I listened to my FIL, I talked to Steven Stills who is a friend of mine, I did it the right way. So, what happened? Then, you get these professionals who talk under their breath and you cannot understand what they said. Stills said if you are converting to WAV off of a defective file -- like the Apple stuff -- WAV will highlight the inadequacy. I said how's that? Stills then disappeared into a room and was playing his guitar in his guitar room and was no longer speaking for the day (a total maniac). So I was left with this sound bite from him that was what it was. I then talked to my FIL who recorded -- e.g., You Make Me So Very Happy -- and he said Steve is right, but don't give up on MP3 files because it is all about the conversion -- can you heat up the music again. Then, to use your logo, I had a Martini because I had no clue what these folks were speaking about. Now, from your post, it all makes sense. Apple is screwing with these files in other ways. That is why there was only one way that I could get the Audials One (Tunebite) to make the music sound correct. I had to use its fantastic Perfect Audio feature. What that does is the following: It rips Apple a part -- kind of like a mountain lion attacking a coyote -- but then it does it TWICE IN A ROW IN TWO DIFFERENT RAW FORMATS. Then, it automatically compares the two versions and it compares the versions to a database and marries them to come away with one song that is Perfect; hence Perfect Audio. It takes a little longer but I SUSPECT THEY HAD TO DEVELOP THAT TECHNOLOGY IN ORDER TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOW COMING OUT FROM APPLE'S LITTLE PET ROCK AND YOU NEED A REDUNDANT SYSTEM IN ORDER TO MAKE THE AUDIO COMPLETELY ORIGINAL AGAIN. I am positive you are right, Frank S., because this is the only explanation I have for the comments made by the two experts, because the WAV file sounded like a horse was running beside the recording, and because once I used Perfect Audio with MP3 I learned that MP3 is just fine IF IT IS RUN THROUGH ANALOG FIRST BEFORE IT GOES BACK TO DIGITAL, SOMETHING APPLE CANNOT DO! I think -- if you are correct -- we have the grounds for a massive class action lawsuit here. Apple sells that they are giving you the top and best of the best. Yet they might be giving you the worst of the worst. And they are not telling anybody. What's worse is that they are forcing you to marry their shitty ITUNES system, which leads to docking stations, sound systems and a digital whorehouse (Sonos does not work -- another story) even though all that could ruin a perfectly good $50,000 sound system. It is about DISCLOSURE. Why didn't they tell me this before I downloaded my library? What is unfair about that? How much downloading do you think me and the rest of us stupid idiots have spent downloading files from Apple? In answer to your question about analog versus digital on the back of the squeeze box, if you are using any sort of computer stereo (even the z5500 which is far away from it, but still has features of a computer stereo), then you are going TOTAL DIGITAL. TOTAL DIGITAL TAKES YOUR RIPPED, CLEANED UP, FILE AND PUTS IT BACK IN A BIGGER IPOD -- i.e., the digital source. The analog jacks on the back of the squeeze box was pure brilliance because it allows you to run it once through analog. Because this is all timed in 1.4 seconds, after you warm up the music again before it hits the Logitech (or any digital system), the digital system does not have time to re-compress and to re-screw-up the sound you've created. And then, it is taking that warm music and playing it back in perfect digital and thus there is no distortion! It is fire in a bottle. Logitech has really thought this through -- 24 bits . . . and fast! This is explained in Logitech's materials and it is completely logical -- but as you
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
BTW I already ordered the SB3. I know when to follow the leader. Tell you how that one goes. Thanks. At your convenience, please tell me if I should get the Transporter -- just because. Will it do anything for me other than look darn good? 80% chance I'm going back on the road and leaving my home. They are now laying odds and they are 6-5. :) Peace. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
tcutting;366779 Wrote: And realize, once you have ONE duet, you can add additional receivers - either SBR (the receiver half of the duet) and use to Controller (SBC) from the duet to configure it. OR... you can get the Squeezebox Classic (aka SB3), which can be controlled with the original duet's controller or its own IR remote (or universal remote), AND it has display. (I just say this because your low price description includes $400 per location for Duet, but the SBR is $150, or a SB Classic is ~$250). Also, consider cleaning up your library... if you are sold on iTunes, work on ripping stuff to the Apple Lossless format, OR leave the Apple proprietary formats altogether and start transitioning to FLAC. Who knows, you might be able to get all those other systems to actually sound BETTER than the SBR/Z5500 combo! Good Luck! tcutting: thanks. i didn't realize that. so (a) you are saying I can buy the classic squeeze box (that displays) and it will work with the new duet controller? (b) the universal remote will also work like the controller? (c) I am no longer sold on ITUNES -- in fact I am happy to be rid of them. but what is Apple Lossless or FLAC? What will FLAC do for me? These things sound interesting and will stir the pot even more. again, thank you for these recommendations. have you ever heard of a wannabee audiophile touting the z5500? what's the world coming to? its the age of the computer!! peace. mitch. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Well, I've done all the tests. I guess it appears dumb, but you were all right. The man who responded in blue was the most right of all -- thank you Mr. Ferrell. You were all spot on. However, trust me, I am now an expert. Do not second guess me at this point. If you want the truth, here it is -- although you all said it TO ME so I am just really saying it back to you: 1. The IPOD sucks. It compresses files. There is no way to get them back out to a full listening device unless headphones is alright with you. I do not like headphones, although if you put me in a casket they'll be fine. However, trust me. I'll kick some serious butt until that happens. Thunder only happens when its raining. 2. The Z5500 -- while cheap -- kicks the shit out of my 23 bose and boston acoustics theater on the other side of the house. Ferrell is correct. The problem was a THUMPY bass and a DISTORTED high end brought about by the IPOD. He's just correct. If you do not like it, then watch the Waltons or something. It is just a fact. If you do not like what my ears heard, talk to Ferrell. He said it in his first post. 3. I have $500,000 worth of stereo equipment in this house and I now get it. The big bose system with 10 speakers is a design to go digital to digital. The Athena speakers are old tube speakers that rock -- but they must be driven. They can blow the doors off of these cheap, plastic Z5500 speakers BUT ONLY IF THE Z5500S are not used properly. If the cheap, plastic, mickey mouse, donald duck 5500s are just treated like Ferrell suggested -- i.e., put a duet on them, rip your cds, set them up right, and let it rock -- then guess what: YOU CANNOT BEAT THE 5500s unless YOU WISH TO SPEND $50,000. Not $10,000. That won't do it. $20,000? That won't do it. The 5500s require a lot of things to beat them. You need the bass. Any sub woofer will not do. Then you require 20,000 Hz. Forget it without the right amp, sub woofer, tweeter, signal to noise and -- if you are trying to hit it all off of an IPOD -- go home boy. YOU CANNOT HIT IT. PERIOD. The IPOD cannot hit it. Ferrell said they were blowing smoke on me. The Rainbow Has A Beard (Cream, 1968). I wasted $2,000 chasing their BS. It is smoke. Don't trust it. It is untrue. You no longer have to spend big money to rock the house down. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. Spend your money on women or whatever. But this industry is different now. Do your research like I did. I have the thousands in this house. But I spend my time around the 5500s and the Duet. And -- trust me -- I know more about music then you do. 4. I like all my other systems but AS FERRELL HAS SAID (and Sinatra) if you are running an IPOD through those systems then it is garbage in. Ferrell told me get the Duet first and then get the Transporter. I got the Duet. I've tested all of my systems with studio equipment and back up. Right now, Purple Haze has just come on Slacker as we speak. The other systems, besides the Z5500, cannot reproduce what I am hearing right now. I am neither drunk nor high. I am 50 years old. I am telling you that the Duet softens the lows and accentuates the highs like nothing you've heard. I'll be specific. Put on an IPOD with Purple Haze. Tell me what Jimmy Hendrix says in the middle of the song. Just paste the words here _. Well, I can hear them all being said and now Hendrix is moaning as his amp is hitting on all cylinders vis a vis his fingers. 5. Now Slacker is playing Under My Thumb by the Stones. I don't like the Stones (more a Beatles fan; sorry but enjoyed pasting the art when ripping my heart out of apple's BS). However, again, I am listening and he says she's the sweetest pet in the world. I never heard that line before. I'm sure it is my fault. However, isn't that what Ferrell and perhaps Sinatra predicted. 6. I simply ran the Duet through my analogue like Ferrell suggested. We can't go from shitty digital to shitty digital (and the Z5500 is in fact shitty if you do not de-digitalize the signal first) now can we. So I ran it back to analogue. Just like they wrote it up. And now: The only issue is whether I will leave home. Rock 'n roll shall never die. 7. This system blows them all away. It is cheap. It is a Z5500 and a Duet. That is it. I have nothing else. I dunno if I will even buy a Transporter. Maybe -- but really as Ferrell said it is not necessary (I am a rock 'n roll freak so I'll probably do it just BECAUSE). In the end, I'll buy the Transporter because I feel guilty that I have spent no money to get all this music and and all this sound. Hell, in 1982, this entire set up including the music would be priceless -- at least $100,000 -- and remember the songs weren't there yet (e.g., Journey: Who's Crying Now). 8. Now, let's break this down: A. Theater room: McIntosh $28,000 amp.
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
That post was awesome.
--
JadeMonkee
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Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
To reiterate what the prior guys said--you need to check your iTunes preferences to see what format you are improting your CDs with. The default format is LOSSY compressed bad sounding audio. You have to manually change the format to the Apple Lossless format for importing CDs. If you haven't done that, you must re-rip all the CDs in your iTunes library. If you have downloaded music into that library, undoubtedly that is also in a LOSSY format which will also sound bad through a decent system. Lastly, if you have downloaded music from the iTunes music store, none of it will play through Duet/Squeezebox/Transporter because that music is copy protected and won't stream to the Duet etc. So you have preliminary tasks to do before you go out and buy new electronics. Once you upgrade your music library to Lossless format, you may find you don't need any new speakers, amps etc. I read the Decco ad and that piece does not look like a bad compromise if you have good mini monitor speakers to hook the piece up to. Didn't see what the price of it is but if not too expensive it might be worth a try with small mini monitors and a Squeezebox. -- sc53 sc53's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8690 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
a lot of advice will be coming at you, and a lot of it here is good. money doesn't seem to be an issue, so why not buy a duet, and try it out? my guess is you'll love it. and from there, you can get more SBRs, SBs, transports, whatever. when i give advice to people, i like to try to figure out HOW they will use the music. if they are an audiophile, i tell them go flac. if they want convenience, i tell them go mp3. one thing i always stress is that i hate itunes. i wonder if you're now tied into it due to DRM concerns. i would never trust ANY music from apple, and i hate the way itunes does things, not just organizationally, but to the music itself. in my case, i play it by ear, so to speak. i can't tell a CD from a 256kbps mp3, and so i simply rip all my CDs myself, and that way i know exactly what i got, where it came from, and what process was used to make the mp3. (i have some downloads, but i archive them separately) at some future point, i might archive some fave material in flac, but i don't find it necessary to do so at the moment. so, i suggest you get EAC or dbpoweramp (google em) make some secure rips in FLAC (since you're an audiophile and money is no problem) and then play them back using SC over your Duet. my guess is you will love what you hear. you can them compare your control group of self made rips to all your other stuff, and decide where to go from there. -- MrSinatra www.LION-Radio.org Using: Squeezebox2 (primary) / SBR (secondary) / SBC - w/SC 7.3b - Win XP Pro SP3 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655 MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Hi there,
I honestly believe that if you think your existing speakers are fine
for most of the music or movies you use them for, then changing to
either the Transporter, or even a Duet won't help because they aren't
related to the problem. Keep the ipod; I think the problem lies in your
music library.
I think the very fact that some songs sound good, and some songs sound
bad is because they are compressed at different levels.
Go into the settings in iTunes and tell us what quality (not just
format) you are ripping at.
If we here believe it is at an acceptable level (by default, I belive
it isn't), then create a (short) list of (some of) the songs that sound
bad.
You may find that these are the ones you downloaded. Play them and find
out what bitrate they are encoded at (this is the easiest way to find
out quality). If there is no bitrate info, then look at the file size.
It should be (for mp3 or mp4) about 1MB for every minute of a song (not
a definitie rule).
If the iTunes encoding quality is at a low level, then we've solved
your problem (and for free no less).
I'm almost positive you'll find that the songs that sound bad are
related to the quality at which they were encoded, and NOT your
equipment.
Those with smaller file sizes and lower bitrates will sound worse than
those with larger.
Save yourself the money, dig out your old CDs and rip them in a
lossless format; you certainly seem to have the storage available.
If you can't fit them all on your ipod in lossless format (it's about
10x larger than lossy), then rip to a high quality lossy (we can help
you in choosing which one).
There is plenty of information on the different formats available on
the internet. The 'wiki at Hydrogen Audio'
(http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/) is a goldmine.
Note that I am not an iTunes user, so can't answer any help questions
about it.
Hope that helps.
Oh, and you can't trust music you've downloaded from the internet for
quality. High quality downloads are usually few and far between.
--
JadeMonkee
2x squeezebox classics {1x wired, 1x wifi} | squeezecentre v7.2.1 |
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raidiator 4.14 | 1gb hynix hymd512m646cfp8-j | 2x 1tb samsung hd103uj }
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Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions In response to your question about what the Transporter has that the Duet does not: - better DAC. Better than the Duet, much better than the iPod. - better power regulation to allow all components to perform better - 24/96 playback capability. You probably don't have 24/96 files right now. - 2 screens (the Duet has none built into it, just in the controller). This allows it to be seen across the room and it also allows nice visualizers - VU meters, spectrum analyzers, etc. - front controls, including a force feedback knob. - ability to be used as a DAC for other digital components - advanced connectivity features you can't use now like RS-232, BNC, XLR, AES/EBU and word clock in connectors - IR port. This allows it to be controlled by a universal remote. The Duet doesn't have an IR port. There's also an IR out port to control other devices. - much better wireless connectivity - two large aerials. So - some of these things might be useful to you, some might not. Yes, the Transporter does sound better than the Duet - with the price difference, it ought to. However whether the price difference justifies how much better you perceive it to be is up to what you connect it to, your ears and personal preferences. Connecting the Transporter to the Z5500s is no doubt a waste. Connecting it to a preamp, a powerful amp and your old Advents is another story...Start with the Duet to the Z5500s and see if you like it though. In regards to your comment that with digital -- there IS NO distortion so the amplifier specs don't really matter that much if the DAC and file formats are right, well, of course there's always distortion. There's never going to be perfect playback. It's a different sort of distortion than analog components though. It's managed through good power supplies and good DACs - the iPod is mediocre on both counts. However amplifier specs do have a huge part to play in the final sound - at some point the sound still has to go through an amplifier and speakers and both have a HUGE role to play, arguably much more so than the digital source. The differences between amplifiers and speakers can easily negate the sound differences between the Duet and the Transporter. The differences are arguably much larger. Finally, in regards to why Logitech doesn't make speakers to go with the Transporter - the Transporter was developed by a company called Slim Devices which was acquired by Logitech only a short time ago (2 years?). Logitech just haven't had development time to really integrate the Slim Devices stuff into their product line, but it's happening. Boom is an example of this, it uses Logitech-sourced speakers (what's innovative is that they're driven by a chip which compensates for the shortcomings of these small speakers, but that's another story). -- Mark Lanctot Current: SB2, Transporter, Boom (PQP3 - late beta) Stored: Boom (PQP1 - early beta), SBC (beta - no battery) Sold: SB3, Duet Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions I think you are missing something with regards to file formats. Anything bought from the iTunes store will be in a lossy format. MP3 players and iPods have limited storage capacity, so the files are compressed to make them smaller. MP3 is a standard compression format, and Apple uses a similar format (AAC, I believe). Not sure about your MP4, but I think the Apple AACs may show up as MP4 - anyway, these are all LOSSY compression formats. To make the files small, some of the original information was thrown away using complex computer algorithms which try to determine what information is least important. There are various levels of lossy-ness, depending on the parameters used to convert the information. There are, however, lossless compression formats which provide some file-size reduction (but a lot less than the lossy compression), but provide bit-accurate representation of the original information. For example, if you rip a CD, using a lossless compression format you will end up with ALL the information which was on the CD (you don't throw anything away). If, however, you convert/store into a lossy format (MP3 or AAC or MP4(?)), you've created a smaller file, but lost some information in the process. All that said, to get the best sound, you really should stick with lossless file formats. FLAC is the generally recommended standard, and there is also an Apple lossless format (ALAC, I believe). For anything you have already on CD, this would require re-ripping the CDs, and storing in one of these lossless formats. The Squeezebox Receiver (player part of the Duet), Transporter, Squeezebox2, Squeezebox3 all can play the FLAC format directly. There are tools for doing this, and plenty of more detail in the Ripping / Encoding / Transcoding / Tagging forum, and probably on the wiki as well. -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions By the way, file format is the usual Apple file format when you download from Apple From the iTunes Store? If so, the music will have Apple's Digital rights Managament (DRM) applied, so can only be played through Apple equipment. You may do better with Apple's Airport express and Airtunes. is it really possible to make the Z5500 (which costs $500) a saintly audio system by using the Transporter? No. -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions JJZolx;364915 Wrote: The spotty thing may be impossible to diagnose remotely, but I think it's fair to say that everybody has recordings that just sound like crap on their system, no matter what they do. Could be the original recording, the transfer from old tapes, the CD mastering, or any of a dozen other things making for a bad sounding recording. You have a lot of options at the point where you find yourself. I don't I'd be completely out of line saying that you should consider starting all over. First, if you want optimal sound, I'd give some thought to the file format that you use to encode your ripped CDs. If you're using lossy AAC or MP3, then you're at a disadvantage right from the get go. You may or may notice a difference by ripping to a lossless format like Flac or ALAC, but at least you could eliminate one source for sound degradation. Next is the source. An iPod can sound Ok, but seldom as good as a fine CD player or a player such as a Squeezebox or Transporter. I'd say you're at a point where even thinking about the Transporter should be out of the question. Get a Duet or Squeezebox Classic first. See how you like it. Upgrading either one can take the form of either adding a nice sound external DAC or upgrading to the Transporter. Then there's amplification and speakers. If you like the Z5500, great, but I'm sure you could improve upon the sound with better amplification and speakers. I would be very surprised if a Transporter would sound much different than a Duet through that system, particularly playing lossy files. Helpful post. That was my instinct. 10% THD doesn't seem to cut it, at least on paper. I wonder why logitech doesn't come out with a better amplification system? If they are charging $1800 for a Transporter, you'd think they have a spiffy amplifier, a great subwoofer and a fantastic pair of bookshelf speakers to buy. I guess maybe in the future. But the post is helpful. Along with the other posts, it convinces me: I'm just going to try the Duet (I'm not much worried about Apple's rights because I scanned a lot of the CDs in myself as well; although based upon your post I'm not going to throw the home dock away so quickly!). If the Duet doesn't improve this Z5500 set up, I'm going to scrap it, get the Advents out of the basement and go shopping for a monster receiver. However, if the Z5500 IS improved, I'll tell you all on Wednesday because it says a lot about sound these days. Thanks again. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions Please see below as these messages don't link up well on my screen. pfarrell;364923 Wrote: Mitchell J. Stein wrote: I have a very simple question, and I'm not going to bore you with the background of why I'm asking the question. I have homes, home theaters, family rooms, old klipsche speakers, bose 901 series III and the rest of it. Do you still have your Large Advents? I still have two ( I gave two others to a buddy.) They aren't my main listening speakers, but I sure know what they sound like. They still bring a lot of bang for the buck, but you need a big amp to drive those old things. I started with a Dynaco ST120, and found that 400 watts or more helped a lot. (solid state, you could get away with less when using quality tube amps. As an audiophile (or at least a wantabee audiophile, or a rusty one), I use my ears. That is the only thing that anyone can trust. However, the IPOD home dock sounds good only on SOME rock 'n roll songs. On others, it sounds HARD, ONE DIMENSIONAL, IMPERSONAL and not like the old ADVENTS I used to run against my 1968 tube McIntosh amplifiers 30 years ago. So, what to do? First get something other than the iPod as a source. Second, to get real sounds, you can't use low end MP3 files. But we can help with that. Do you have a CD that you like? Say Dire Staits Brothers in Arms? or some old Byrds? Do I spend $40,000 and re-tube the joint alongside all this computer equipment? Three experts have told me yes. They are either crooks, or think you have too much money. But you may have to spend a few thousand to get back in the game. Is my problem the Z 5500 or the lack of a good DAC connected to my IPOD? Is the duet a good DAC? The duet has a very decent DAC, when you feed it good sources. What in the world is a DAC and why is so important? Digital to Analog Convertor. Its what converts bits to sound waves that you can feed to an amp to feed to your speakers. Now, my second problem. If the duet really does the trick and bypasses the problem of my IPOD not having the proper DAC, then why am I not just buying the Transporter? You can do that, but I recommend you start lower, spend less, and make sure you are going the correct way. Where are you physically? You may find someone here that is willing to let you come to their house. For example, I live outside Washington DC. Does the Transporter even have anything to do with DAC? The Transporter contains a DAC. The Duet contains a DAC, it just costs less than the one in the Transporter. C. Are the people at DECCO correct when they say no DAC makes a difference if you don't have the old tubes, audiophile, 70s equipment? This is illogical to me They are blowing smoke. Pat Pat, thanks for the comprehensive post. It really helps because I am impulsive and was capable of buying all kinds of wasteful things. I am new to this forum, and can't figure out how you are able to post in blue responsive to each question. Kind of neat. I'll figure it out eventually. Here's some responses and why your answers were helpful: 1. I still have the Advents (the speakers are such that the word Advent must always be capitalized). If the Duet doesn't completely solve the problem, I'm bringing them out and replacing the woofers in the process. But after seeing the posts, and reading yours carefully, my opinion is not so fast. I want to see what the Duet does. I told DECCO to take a hike. In any event, I originally ran the Advents off a 1978 Pioneer SX-1280. I remember listening to Boston and Zeppelin and The Beatles and Wings off of them 12 hours per day in my college dorm room. I was at Indiana U. My dorm mates would be competing with the Grateful Dead, who I never much liked but respected that they got off on it. So I would just shove Achilles Last Stand down their throat on the Advents (even if I had to play it 30 straight times) and they'd leave for the day. It seems like yesterday and nothing I've seen has sounded that good since. However, in a spring cleaning with my x-wife (note I said x), she sold the monster Pioneer (which was also quite beautiful) in a yard sale circa 1988 for $100. Obviously, we were divorced within a few years from that fateful day. (I was practicing law and only interested in my car stereo at the time.) 2. Thanks for the comment on the IPOD. You'd be surprised.
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions JJZolx;364915 Wrote: The spotty thing may be impossible to diagnose remotely, but I think it's fair to say that everybody has recordings that just sound like crap on their system, no matter what they do. Could be the original recording, the transfer from old tapes, the CD mastering, or any of a dozen other things making for a bad sounding recording. You have a lot of options at the point where you find yourself. I don't I'd be completely out of line saying that you should consider starting all over. First, if you want optimal sound, I'd give some thought to the file format that you use to encode your ripped CDs. If you're using lossy AAC or MP3, then you're at a disadvantage right from the get go. You may or may notice a difference by ripping to a lossless format like Flac or ALAC, but at least you could eliminate one source for sound degradation. Next is the source. An iPod can sound Ok, but seldom as good as a fine CD player or a player such as a Squeezebox or Transporter. I'd say you're at a point where even thinking about the Transporter should be out of the question. Get a Duet or Squeezebox Classic first. See how you like it. Upgrading either one can take the form of either adding a nice sound external DAC or upgrading to the Transporter. Then there's amplification and speakers. If you like the Z5500, great, but I'm sure you could improve upon the sound with better amplification and speakers. I would be very surprised if a Transporter would sound much different than a Duet through that system, particularly playing lossy files. Thanks JJ. Your post just amplifies the others. I am using MPEG-4 format, so that is probably alright. As I said to the other guys, thanks for just telling me that IPOD as a source is probably not that good. It is nice to just hear it, since nobody at an audio store will say it. You say get the Duet first, which is now the consensus. That is what I am doing. If it works, though, maybe somebody can tell me what other bells and whistles exist in the Transporter. The thing looks great, and maybe it will even make a greater difference. I agree I can improve on the sound of the Z5500 -- that is obvious from the specs -- but yet it sounds good coming from the Phillips TV source? However, it makes no logical sense that I could clean up a Z5500 with an expensive Transporter. But, I'm crazy enough to do the test for you. Just walk me through it. I'm starting with the Duet (will arrive Tuesday) and will report back. If the Duet makes a difference in my own ears, then I'm ready to do the test with the Transporter. I read somewhere that -- with digital -- there IS NO distortion so the amplifier specs don't really matter that much if the DAC and file formats are right. So, it appears we are about to find out what is more important: DAC/file formats . . . or amplification methods . . . or both. Thanks a lot for your answers. The consensus it creates makes me know I'm on the right track. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions amcluesent;364942 Wrote: By the way, file format is the usual Apple file format when you download from Apple From the iTunes Store? If so, the music will have Apple's Digital rights Managament (DRM) applied, so can only be played through Apple equipment. You may do better with Apple's Airport express and Airtunes if you've already bought into Apple's kit with Ipods etc. Or maybe AppleTV to hook up to your TV. is it really possible to make the Z5500 (which costs $500) a saintly audio system by using the Transporter? No. Clue: I know the Z5500 is not going to turn into the movie theater around the corner here, just from the Transporter. But hope springs eternal! I've put a lot of my disks into ITUNES myself, so I'm not sure it is a problem. However, I've downloaded a lot too. How will Apple know that my ITUNES library is being read off of a router by Duet? If that is the case, then I'll create new Internet playlists off of using Rhapsody or the other station. I cannot go down the road with Apple any more. They have sold me too much hogwash in trying to leverage off of the IPOD. In fact, they have sold me 3 different generations of IPODs, and I Phone (that they said had a DAC) and a Touch POD or something of the short. Now, if the Duet does not SOUND BETTER TO ME, then maybe I'll go back and look at Apple. But if the Duet gives me the sound, then it is obviously the source and my computer is a darn good source and I've spent a bundle on it. Thanks a lot for your post. I'll let you know how much trouble I get in when the Duet arrives. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions The Transporter was designed by Slim Devices well before Logitech bought the company. I doubt very much that Logitech bought Slim Devices because of the Transporter, I think they were much more interested in the SB3 technology, which is more in keeping with the mass market appeal of Logitech's other products. Logitech have subsequently designed the Duet and the Boom, both great mass market appeal products, so I'd guess, if pushed, they'd agree that the TP is 'unsual' in their product range, rather than there being a gap where other 'high end' products might be. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions Wow. Is your planned source component an iPod? If so, neither the Duet nor Transporter is what you want. What file format are your music files in? -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions JJZolx;364908 Wrote: Wow. Is your planned source component an iPod? If so, neither the Duet nor Transporter is what you want. What file format are your music files in? Thanks for responding. I'm sorry but I got so confused I didn't make that clear. My source component is a gigantic ITUNES file in my computer with a huge network. That is what got me interested in Duet and Transporter. I plan on throwing all the IPODs away, because people are telling me the DAC on the IPODS and home docks are the source of the problem. Is that right? Is that what is making the Z5500 sound spotty (only good on certain tunes) or is it the cheapness of the Z5500 itself? The TV sounds great through the Z5500 and so I guess your question brings out the key question: Is the Duet (or Transporter) playing off of a computer ITUNES (or internet radio) going to sound audiophile quality if played through a Z5500? Go Steelers. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions JJZolx;364908 Wrote: Wow. Is your planned source component an iPod? If so, neither the Duet nor Transporter is what you want. What file format are your music files in? By the way, file format is the usual Apple file format when you download from Apple. I think it is called MPEG but I have no idea what that means. But the IPOD is just a download of these files. There must be every serious rock 'n roll song from 1956-1986 in there -- all in MPEG. Thanks again. -- Mitchell J. Stein Mitchell J. Stein's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 Question: Is there a gap in Logitech's web site? - Good questions - Not interested - Boring - Bad/stupid questions Mitchell J. Stein;364912 Wrote: Thanks for responding. I'm sorry but I got so confused I didn't make that clear. My source component is a gigantic ITUNES file in my computer with a huge network. That is what got me interested in Duet and Transporter. I plan on throwing all the IPODs away, because people are telling me the DAC on the IPODS and home docks are the source of the problem. Is that right? Is that what is making the Z5500 sound spotty (only good on certain tunes) or is it the cheapness of the Z5500 itself? The TV sounds great through the Z5500 and so I guess your question brings out the key question: Is the Duet (or Transporter) playing off of a computer ITUNES (or internet radio) going to sound audiophile quality if played through a Z5500? The spotty thing may be impossible to diagnose remotely, but I think it's fair to say that everybody has recordings that just sound like crap on their system, no matter what they do. Could be the original recording, the transfer from old tapes, the CD mastering, or any of a dozen other things making for a bad sounding recording. You have a lot of options at the point where you find yourself. I don't I'd be completely out of line saying that you should consider starting all over. First, if you want optimal sound, I'd give some thought to the file format that you use to encode your ripped CDs. If you're using lossy AAC or MP3, then you're at a disadvantage right from the get go. You may or may notice a difference by ripping to a lossless format like Flac or ALAC, but at least you could eliminate one source for sound degradation. Next is the source. An iPod can sound Ok, but seldom as good as a fine CD player or a player such as a Squeezebox or Transporter. I'd say you're at a point where even thinking about the Transporter should be out of the question. Get a Duet or Squeezebox Classic first. See how you like it. Upgrading either one can take the form of either adding a nice sound external DAC or upgrading to the Transporter. Then there's amplification and speakers. If you like the Z5500, great, but I'm sure you could improve upon the sound with better amplification and speakers. I would be very surprised if a Transporter would sound much different than a Duet through that system, particularly playing lossy files. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55712 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] First Post; Please Help
Mitchell J. Stein wrote: I have a very simple question, and I'm not going to bore you with the background of why I'm asking the question. I have homes, home theaters, family rooms, old klipsche speakers, bose 901 series III and the rest of it. Do you still have your Large Advents? I still have two ( I gave two others to a buddy.) They aren't my main listening speakers, but I sure know what they sound like. They still bring a lot of bang for the buck, but you need a big amp to drive those old things. I started with a Dynaco ST120, and found that 400 watts or more helped a lot. (solid state, you could get away with less when using quality tube amps. As an audiophile (or at least a wantabee audiophile, or a rusty one), I use my ears. That is the only thing that anyone can trust. However, the IPOD home dock sounds good only on SOME rock 'n roll songs. On others, it sounds HARD, ONE DIMENSIONAL, IMPERSONAL and not like the old ADVENTS I used to run against my 1968 tube McIntosh amplifiers 30 years ago. So, what to do? First get something other than the iPod as a source. Second, to get real sounds, you can't use low end MP3 files. But we can help with that. Do you have a CD that you like? Say Dire Staits Brothers in Arms? or some old Byrds? Do I spend $40,000 and re-tube the joint alongside all this computer equipment? Three experts have told me yes. They are either crooks, or think you have too much money. But you may have to spend a few thousand to get back in the game. Is my problem the Z 5500 or the lack of a good DAC connected to my IPOD? Is the duet a good DAC? The duet has a very decent DAC, when you feed it good sources. What in the world is a DAC and why is so important? Digital to Analog Convertor. Its what converts bits to sound waves that you can feed to an amp to feed to your speakers. Now, my second problem. If the duet really does the trick and bypasses the problem of my IPOD not having the proper DAC, then why am I not just buying the Transporter? You can do that, but I recommend you start lower, spend less, and make sure you are going the correct way. Where are you physically? You may find someone here that is willing to let you come to their house. For example, I live outside Washington DC. Does the Transporter even have anything to do with DAC? The Transporter contains a DAC. The Duet contains a DAC, it just costs less than the one in the Transporter. C. Are the people at DECCO correct when they say no DAC makes a difference if you don't have the old tubes, audiophile, 70s equipment? This is illogical to me They are blowing smoke. Pat -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
