Re: [slim] Now what?
copyright infringement #8800; theft Why do some people have such a hard time with this distinction? Theft is taking something from someone and depriving them of it. It is a criminal offense. Copyright infringement is making an unauthorized copy (and deprives someone only if the infringer would have otherwise bought the intellectual property in question. Often he or she would not have.) Copyright infringement is a civil offense, not criminal. Now that we have that cleared up, what is the best and most ethical way to dispose of our now useless CDs? (If I certify that I have destroyed them, will the RIAA issue me some certificate of licensed use of the IP contained on those CDs? No? So I have to keep a large and heavy mass of plastic to prove that I have a legal right to listen to this music? This does not seem reasonable.) What I have done with some of my CDs is traded them on Lala.com. I don't know how active this aspect of lala is anymore, it's been a while since I've been active there. They facilitate 3 way trades for $1.75 including postage. You list the CDs you want to trade and make a list of the CDs you would like to receive in trade. They notify you if someone wants a CD you have, if you OK the trade, you get the address of the member to send the CD to. Then lala aranges for some other member to send you something on your want list. The cool part is that 20% or more of the income of the service goes to the artists involved in the traded CDs, and if these are not easy to find, then to a fund to provide health and retirement benefits to working musicians. Artists get no revenue from used CD sales in a record store in contrast. So you trade for new music, the artists make more than they probably did on the original sale of their CD, and the RIAA gets nothing. Seems like a win win win to me. I should get back on there and trade some CDs. I buy almost no CDs from retail outlets these days. When artists I'm interested in offer new material as lossless downloads, I eagerly support them and buy the music. I buy many CDs directly from artists at shows, because they receive a greater percentage of this sale. The only CDs I keep in the house are ones with particularly interesting packaging (like Tool) or CDs by artists with whom I'm personally acquainted. If the music industry would get hip and start offering what I want to buy, lossless music that doesn't come on a piece of plastic, I'll buy. Why are they so stupid? They have brought their downfall on themselves. -- bephillips More than 40,296 songs on 2,789 albums by 2,126 artists. Mostly flac, some mp3 and aac. Version: 7.3.3 - 24799 @ Thu Jan 29 03:01:48 PST 2009 Operating system: Mac OS X 10.5.5 (9F33) - EN - utf8 Platform Architecture: ppc Perl Version: 5.8.8 - darwin-thread-multi-2level MySQL Version: 5.0.22-standard On a 1.2GHz G4 Mac iBook with 768MB RAM http://db.etree.org/bephillips http://www.last.fm/user/bephillips bephillips's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
the new book Ripped:How the Wired Generation Revolutionized Music tells quite a story about this revolution we are all a part of and an excerpt from the book was in the nyt's book review. Edgar Bronfman Jr., the chief executive of the Warner Music Group, said in 2007: By standing still or moving at a glacial pace, we inadvertently went to war with consumers by denying them what they wanted and could otherwise find. And as a result, of course, consumers won. that pretty much says it all. -- exile exile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Do your work for an entity that produces a product or service? If not, pretend you do. What would happen to your job, and to those products or services, if your employer's customers decided they were entitled to your output for free? (Hint - think of the newspaper industry today) I presume you like listening to recorded music. You expect artists to continue to record, and new artists to come on to the scene, but at the same time you think you are entitled to get that recorded music for free? Fine, but it won't continue. You can have any opinion you want, I don't care. If it differs from mine, all the better, I can learn and we can discuss. But have thoughtful opinions, not unrealistic and selfish ones. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
maggior;448028 Wrote: I don't understand it either. I can see it for somebody such as myself that grew up with the lp format and is feeling nostalgiac But these kids that were born long after the CD was introduced...I don't get it. Perhaps today's kids aren't as stupid as we tend to think. Maybe they've noticed that the mastering of vinyl is so vastly superior to the hypercompression and clipping you get on CDs that the music sometimes sounds better on vinyl, despite the format's inherent faults. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
cliveb;448083 Wrote: Perhaps today's kids aren't as stupid as we tend to think. Maybe they've noticed that the mastering of vinyl is so vastly superior to the hypercompression and clipping you get on CDs that the music sometimes sounds better on vinyl, despite the format's inherent faults. Good point...forgot about the loudness war. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior Looking forward to new Porcupine Tree, Megadeth, Alice in Chains, and The Beatles Box set. September will be an expensive month :-) maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
cliveb;448083 Wrote: Perhaps today's kids aren't as stupid as we tend to think. Maybe they've noticed that the mastering of vinyl is so vastly superior to the hypercompression and clipping you get on CDs that the music sometimes sounds better on vinyl, despite the format's inherent faults. A Mail-on-Sunday newspaper piece about the ex-EMI pressing plant in Hayes said: You might imagine that in a world where new music is routinely downloaded off the internet - and in 95 per cent of cases, illegally - paying for something as old-fashioned as a record in a cardboard sleeve would be the last thing any groovy kid would want to do. In fact, though, the opposite is true. Owning the vinyl product of your favourite band has become a badge of honour, the ultimate proof of serious fandom. Any old lightweight can nick music online. But to pay for an actual record buys you the thing that matters - and has always mattered - more than anything else in rock: authenticity. http://www.thevinylfactory.com/the-return-of-the-vinyl-how-britain-got-its-groove-back @Declan M: LPs - boxy?? You've been listening to the wrong system ! -- morris_minor Living Room: Transporter Study: Receiver Kitchen: Boom Son's Bedroom: Classic iPeng on an iPhone, 2 x Controllers Server: TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3i SC 7.2.1 - 23630 - - - - http://www.last.fm/user/morris_minor_1 morris_minor's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
I know this forum has been to mars and back in discussing this issue and there seems to still be those folks that are absolutists about the idea of copyright infringement laws. to me, that argument is way too simple. we live in a time of rapidly evaporating copyright truths. the internet revolution right or wrong has created the idea that virtually everything should be available for free or darn near free. To some of us folks who put up with $11.99 records before they became a niche market item and then $18.99 cds when the record companies started to see that their profits were going up in smoke due to the internet, the revolution has been a wonderful breath of fresh air in a formally greed oriented business. so now the question becomes how do we properly compensate the artists for making this fantastic music? currently, it looks like the purchasing of recorded music tracks will become secondary or even tertiary to live concerts and merchandising. so my advice for the folks who are hung up on the minutia of copyright issues is to go see live music-pay a fair price for that ticket and then buy a t-shirt, poster, or other band related trinket. that's how you can pay that artist back for getting the music on amazon for cheap or for free online or through a hard drive swap with a friend or any other combination of ways that many folks like myself are getting their digital files. -- exile exile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
exile;448262 Wrote: I know this forum has been to mars and back in discussing this issue and there seems to still be those folks that are absolutists about the idea of copyright infringement laws. to me, that argument is way too simple. So too is your rationalization. If you don't like the law, work to change it. Thankfully most people obey most laws. When you choose to ignore one, you've done so because you like the result, not because your disagreement with it is in any way relevant. And also not because your workaround or consolation prize has any validity. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
On 8/6/2009 5:17 PM, radish wrote: ModelCitizen;446424 Wrote: God, you're so squeaky. MC It took me a while to realise what you meant (clean..right?). I'm really not, but I do have a lot of friends in/links to the music world and I've seen the damage it does. Your morals are your own, and I certainly don't want to turn this into another endless copyright thread, but my point stands. There's no difference between selling the CD post rip and just using a torrent in the first place - it's up to you whether that's a problem or not. Is it OK to sell my CDs if I still keep the vinyl the record companies sold me the first time around? Not a hypothetical question. -- Bill Burns Long Island NY USA http://ftldesign.com ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Probably not, but keep the CD's! You don't know how good you backups are and it is another line of defence if the worst happens. Sell the vynal you might get more for it! Why people seem to be getting excited about LP's now seems stupid. They sound boxy and you have all these problems with them that you don't get with CD's. Old records are usually scratched a lot whereas CD's if kept properly will be just as good condition as when they were bought. -- Declan Moriarty Declan Moriarty's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Declan Moriarty;447995 Wrote: Why people seem to be getting excited about LP's now seems stupid. They sound boxy and you have all these problems with them that you don't get with CD's. Old records are usually scratched a lot whereas CD's if kept properly will be just as good condition as when they were bought. I don't understand it either. I can see it for somebody such as myself that grew up with the lp format and is feeling nostalgiac But these kids that were born long after the CD was introduced...I don't get it. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 3 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 27,698 songs, 2,304 albums, 439 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Have a look at 'this' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50527highlight=jewel+case) thread. Loads of ideas in there - more for storage than display, but may help. -- Siduhe Who am I on 'LAST.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/siduhe)? -Siduhe Loved Tracks radio got the thumbs up. Feedback included: yeah, it's good... got the odd dodgy track tho...- (c) 'ModelCitizen' (http://www.last.fm/user/Modelcitizen) Oh yeah, I'm giving 'Twitter' (http://twitter.com/Siduhe) a try - and surprising myself how many interesting people are out there... Siduhe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
I moved all my CDs to the garage 3 years ago, stored in plastic boxes alphabetically. I still access them from time to time (mostly to add newly ripped CDs), but I rarely (if ever) actually play one. They just seem so 90's... -- Mike New Mike New's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Mike New;446370 Wrote: I moved all my CDs to the garage 3 years ago, stored in plastic boxes alphabetically. I still access them from time to time (mostly to add newly ripped CDs), but I rarely (if ever) actually play one. They just seem so 90's... +1 - I only go to the garage to add more CD's to my store...(after 5 years of doing this) I miss the booklets - but not enough. We have the Internet! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
peber;446234 Wrote: */ I want to bring a CD to a friends house for listening. /Per I just take my laptop (and a mini-to-rca cable) or my Boom and I have ALL my CD's at a friends house for listening... -- pski pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Sell them. Streamed media and the Internet make them entirely redundant. As most others have realised this you'll not get much money for them, but you may be able to recoup some of your losses by renting out the saved space. MC -- ModelCitizen On average people have fewer than two feet. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
ModelCitizen;446409 Wrote: Sell them. Streamed media and the Internet make them entirely redundant. That's a pretty blatant copyright infringement - may as well just download the tracks illegally if you're going to do that. -- radish http://www.last.fm/user/polymeric radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
radish;446417 Wrote: That's a pretty blatant copyright infringement - may as well just download the tracks illegally if you're going to do that. God, you're so squeaky. MC -- ModelCitizen On average people have fewer than two feet. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
Stealing is stealing. You can rationalize it all you want, but in the end it is still stealing. I have no sympathy for the music companies or the the RIAA, but they have legal rights. Besides the artists lose out as well. -- regalma1 regalma1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6658 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
The government steal my money every month and spend it on things I don't want. Stealing is stealing is trite. MC -- ModelCitizen On average people have fewer than two feet. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
ModelCitizen;446424 Wrote: God, you're so squeaky. MC It took me a while to realise what you meant (clean..right?). I'm really not, but I do have a lot of friends in/links to the music world and I've seen the damage it does. Your morals are your own, and I certainly don't want to turn this into another endless copyright thread, but my point stands. There's no difference between selling the CD post rip and just using a torrent in the first place - it's up to you whether that's a problem or not. -- radish http://www.last.fm/user/polymeric radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
radish;446436 Wrote: It took me a while to realise what you meant (clean..right?).Yes, squeaky clean radish;446436 Wrote: Your morals are your ownProbably. radish;446436 Wrote: and I certainly don't want to turn this into another endless copyright threadMe neither. MC -- ModelCitizen On average people have fewer than two feet. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now what?
My CDs are in a different country 10 000km away :) Moved to a different country and left them. Wasn't worth taking them along. I am heading back to them eventually though. -- lrossouw -* 'Recently Played on my Squeezebox 3s' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw/charts/?charttype=recenttracks) *- lrossouw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3416 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66387 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
