Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Hi, Frank. Thank you for this most useful tool. I have made a donation today. -- Rick B. Rick B.'s Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I am generally anti-DRM. That said, I'm also a 9 year audible subscriber and an avid audio book listener (both from Audible and my local library) and I think there are two sides to the story. First I want to point out that audio books are not quite the same as music. This is because the primary format of a book is, well, a book. The audio version is a secondary format and one which brings in additional revenue to be sure, but isn't the main focus of the publisher. Audio versions of books are optional, audio versions of music are required :-) After years of hating DRM, it was my library which finally made me see the other side of the argument (not that I prefer DRM'd content even now). They have an online system via MediaMall which allows you to check-out audio books from their library (for free with your library card number). They are typically in DRM'd WMA format and only play for 4 weeks. I initially thought this was crazy and weird - but when I spoke with someone at the library about this they explained that this system allows them to buy a number of virtual copies of an audio book and the enforce a virtual checkout and return process. Overall, this led to the audio book publishers being able to sell virtual copies of their audiobooks without worying about losing revenue (because they act just like the CD sets they sell). By the end of the first year, the audiobook selection was easily 50 times the size it was before this. So this is a case where I am emphatically pro-DRM because I know for sure this content would not be available free from my library without it. Since audio versions of books are not compulsory, I don't think the all same (music/movie) DRM arguments apply (at least in the same way). -C -- cburke cburke's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35876 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
On the other hand you (as a publisher) could just calculate each copy of an audio book just like a rented one. I also own hundreds if audio books and I can safely say that I rarely listen to one more than once. And it's not as if the data on my harddisc does impose any manufacturing costs on them as it is for a real book. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I have no problem with DRM if I am *knowingly* renting it, as in your library scenerio (a great idea BTW). Just like my Napster account, I have no problem with DRM when I am *knowingly* renting their content via streaming from their server. But if I *buy* it, then I want to own it and have unencumbered access to that purchase on any platform I wish to use it. I'm all for copywright protection when implemented in a sane and common sense way. Like when I buy or rent a DVD, I can play that DVD on any DVD player on the planet (NTSC vs PAL formats aside). But DRM is not universally standardized which limits which MP3 player I can use. If the DVD standard were like DRM: You rent/buy a Warner Bros movie, pop your popcorn and dim the lights, insert your DVD into your Sony DVD player, and you get a message on your TV sorry, your Sony DVD player can only play movies from Sony Studios. So if there are 12 studios we need to buy 12 different DVD players? That's insane! That's DRM! ;) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
garym;504663 Wrote: I agree with jimbo's comments in general, but of course we're talking about audio books here, not music. I don't want DRM product either, but we also don't need lossless audio books. Very low bitrates are transparent when it comes to the spoken word. I completely agree that lossless audio books sound like overkill. While lossy may be a good argument for music - audiobooks are darn long even with modern storage options I'd rather keep them more manageable. However, in terms of transparency have you ever listened to Audible content? I'm not very picky; most MP3s I listen to at typical bitrates (192+, even a lot of 128, etc) don't bother me. But up to format #4 (32Kb/s) which they touted as great until recently; Audible is nowhere near transparent. I haven't tried the newer Ehanced format (64Kb/s) enough to make real comparisons; it sounded better in quick tests but I wasn't immediately convinced that it was good enough to beat ripping CDs. Yes even with 32Kb/s the speech is completely understandable but there are very perceptible differences between it and audiobooks on CD. Some audiobooks have music fade-ins on chapters or other noises and all of it sounds slightly unnatural. I guess kind of like listening to a lot of radio stations. They sound pretty good, maybe even fine, but you don't mistake them for a CD. Anyway I certainly don't prefer DRM; but I'm not passionate enough about it to deal in absolutes, so I do own some Audible content and some audiobook CDs. But I don't understand objecting to Squeezeboxes doing more rather than less. Do you complain that so many portable MP3 players do support Audible? To each his own. -Jeff -- jdoering jdoering's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17482 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
toby10;504684 Wrote: Yup, you sure can. Same with iTunes and others (burn to CD). You just keep jumpin' through those hoops. ;) tailwag.dog :) It's absolutely a pain and it is great that iTunes went largely DRM-free. I hope DRM becomes obsolete as well. The point was that you do have the ability to own the content just as much as you do with a CD and you can take defensive measures if you're worried that the proprietary software, service, etc won't be available in the future. Is the inconvenience tolerable? It depends on the consumer's priorities. Is it every superior to DRM-free content? Absolutely not. But are there really DRM-free audiobook alternatives to Audible that offer similar instant download, pricing, library breadth, support for bookmarking (on many portable players), etc? If there are then all of my Audible purchases have been a mistake. But I haven't look around much in a while so I really don't know if such alternatives exist. I prefer audiobook CDs due to quality and DRM issues; but they're less convenient to obtain, usually more expensive, and then I still have to deal with less support for bookmarking, chapter markers, etc. -Jeff -- jdoering jdoering's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17482 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I'm not a fan of Audible, and listen to all my audiobooks in DRM free MP3's. I really think having the ability to listen to audiobooks would be a great enhancement. I did raise a request for a UI modification for audiobooks: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=64228 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12376 And theres a request also open for a bookmark function that would be very usefull for audiobooks: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9450 Any votes/support would be apreciated. -- mick_w http://www.ulverston.myzen.co.uk/mini-itx/ mick_w's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6526 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Due to forum problems half of last post where snipped of: I meant to add that, the old players memory are quite full and DRM is usually implemented in the player firmware, otherwise it would be no DRM ? the stream could be hijacked by any technically skilled person. So it's futile to ask for anything that needs more firmware support for the old players . On the other hand the squeezeplay based machines have both cpu and memory to do it, and does play AAC natively wich is crucial, as the DRM has to be decoded in the player. A serverside solutions wont get approval from anyone with an DRM sheme. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBRto be stuffed in a box in the attic ) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to controll this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
toby10;504319 Wrote: Absolutely agree and very unlikely. But then, I'm sure the many people buying from Yahoo Music thought the same thing about the safety of buying from Yahoo, a multi-billion dollar operation still in business and still growing. ;) The point is, if it's DRM'd then you are just renting it. For how long? Who knows. 2 years? 10 years? 50 years? The length of time you are allowed to use it is up to the actual owner (not you). The content owner only needs to decide to get out of *that* business, not necessarily go *out* of business. Sort of, sort of not for Audible. As others have mentioned they do allow conversion to CD (and third-party products can use that functionality to convert to other digital formats at very high speed with no actual CDs involved). So they don't force you to stay locked in their DRM if you're worried about it expiring. There is arguably quality loss (not that it's amazing to begin with) and it's cumbersome though so far from ideal. But it is more open than some DRM schemes that don't provide any legal access to the decoded data (Kindle e-books for example). I also suspect that they wouldn't allow server-side decoding due to DRM concerns; but it's pretty funny considering the existing CD loophole. -Jeff -- jdoering jdoering's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17482 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Hi there DRM and Proprietary formats are BAD - you are foever locked in. I'm against adding this format. Squeezebox is great in playing FLAC and if you are a real audiophile you can get VERY HIGH QUALITY DRM FREE stuff from here for excample (up to a whopping 24 bit 192 khZ BTW -- far far in excess of normal CD sound 16 bit @ 44kHZ. http://www.linnrecords.com/index.aspx FLAC is OPEN SOURCE and is LOSSLESS. If you need say MP3's for Ipods etc you can also convert FLAC to MP3 for that purpose -- it's not difficult with cheap storage to have FLAC as your main library and MP3's for Ipods etc. Cheer jimbo -- jimbo45 jimbo45's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20276 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
jimbo45;504632 Wrote: Hi there DRM and Proprietary formats are BAD - you are forever locked in. I'm against adding this format. Squeezebox is great in playing FLAC and if you are a real audiophile you can get VERY HIGH QUALITY DRM FREE stuff from here for example (up to a whopping 24 bit 192 khZ BTW -- far far in excess of normal CD sound 16 bit @ 44kHZ. Cheers jimbo I agree with jimbo's comments in general, but of course we're talking about audio books here, not music. I don't want DRM product either, but we also don't need lossless audio books. Very low bitrates are transparent when it comes to the spoken word. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
jdoering;504519 Wrote: Sort of, sort of not for Audible. As others have mentioned they do allow conversion to CD (and third-party products can use that functionality to convert to other digital formats at very high speed with no actual CDs involved). So they don't force you to stay locked in their DRM if you're worried about it expiring. There is arguably quality loss (not that it's amazing to begin with) and it's cumbersome though so far from ideal. But it is more open than some DRM schemes that don't provide any legal access to the decoded data (Kindle e-books for example). I also suspect that they wouldn't allow server-side decoding due to DRM concerns; but it's pretty funny considering the existing CD loophole. -Jeff Yup, you sure can. Same with iTunes and others (burn to CD). You just keep jumpin' through those hoops. ;) tailwag.dog :) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I'd be afraid to be a soldier in Jimbo's army, sounds just as strict and inflexible as the DRM filetypes he rails against. All praise FLAC and all, but I own not one single FLAC file, cant say I have any plans in motion to ever own em. I never got my squeezebox to jump on board with it either, my last CD was purchased many moons ago so I suspect I dont forsee myself buying any anytime soon. I Just have my collection of music, mostly mp3's and iTunes, I'm a regular kind of fellow and if my quality level does not make it into the 'audiophile' tent, it has simply never bothered me or caused me concern..ever. I still use my ipod, still use itunes, still eat red meat and fantasize about pretty girls. I hope the powers that be considers this and goes ahead and facilitates me listening to my audiobooks via my squeezebox, I'll stress again..a competitor already does this! Arguing about punishing (DRM content creators) them I suspect is no punishment at all to them. Rhapsody, Napster, etc..all these monthly/annual music service companies have some DRM controls yet are available on the squeezebox no? Jeez, I just wanna listen to Tolkien on a quiet afternoon, where'd the fire and brimstone come from?...And dont say Mount Doom! -- Moozh Moozh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I'd like the app. I think consumer choice is a good thing and I don't think Audiobook licensing issues are Logitech's fight. Of course development cost-wise and licensing-wise this may or may not be strategic for Logitech. -Jeff -- jdoering jdoering's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17482 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
jdoering;504079 Wrote: I'd like the app. I think consumer choice is a good thing and I don't think Audiobook licensing issues are Logitech's fight. Of course development cost-wise and licensing-wise this may or may not be strategic for Logitech. Add device capabilities into that. You probably will never see something like this on the older players (Classic, Transporter, Receiver, Boom). Probably also not on Controller. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
robchel;504029 Wrote: .. I also wish to go on record as being against shooting the bears... and Audible ;) - had no idea animals ran it! rc Ha! :) DRM = 0 Bears = 2 I'm not against Audible or their service and it would be great if Logitech offered it (though I wouldn't use it). The more the merrier. I just wanted to point out, based on your previous comment, that it is the DRM telling you that your DRM content can't be played on SB devices, not the other way around. If Audible were to ever shut it's doors (unlikely I'm sure) you would lose the ability to play your legally purchased content. Yahoo Music did this, leaving many people with unusable legally purchased content. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Audible is now owned by Amazon so going out of business I suspect is not on the near horizon and with my own level of customer satisfaction I suspect their customer base has grown since its early days so as of now is a healthy viable business, but 15-years from now..who knows. Just for clarity: on the sonos, somewhat like on the squeezebox with all the apps you simply fill in the account username and password section of the simple dialog, much like you do for your slacker, sirius, pandora, napster, etc account on 'mysqueezebox.com'. In action it really is quite simple and wilth the numerous device able to play audible content (I even play it on my Garmin GPS on road trips)I suspect that it really isnt so cumbersome to get the squeezebox/server as one additional device that can play the files. All you do is furnish user account authentication to verify that they are being used by the account holder. No wait, no delay, they start playing immediately. I'm a somewhat regular fellow so cant speak to the complexity under the surface if any, I would expect the squeezebox will need to be approved by audible as they have the devices that work with their files listed on their site so a hack-app that didnt go thru the appropriate process seems likely to be trouble legally but from the perspective of a user it was as simple as any other squeezebox 'app' to set up. Remember, if I were so inclined I can still go thru the tedium of converting all my content into cd-audio (burning them to CD) Frankly, just like buying a VolksWagen, I'm not so concerned about the company going belly up leaving me with a product that I can no longer get spare parts or/and service for. I just dont have that concern and my desire to listen to my DRM audible files on a squeezebox NOW are a higher on my list that affirming that I can still listen to my files generally in 2034 A.D. -- Moozh Moozh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
FYI Audible is AAC content so yes, it would only be possible on Radio/Touch/future stuff. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Moozh;504298 Wrote: Audible is now owned by Amazon so going out of business I suspect is not on the near horizon and with my own level of customer satisfaction I suspect their customer base has grown since its early days so as of now is a healthy viable business, but 15-years from now..who knows Absolutely agree and very unlikely. But then, I'm sure the many people buying from Yahoo Music thought the same thing about the safety of buying from Yahoo, a multi-billion dollar operation still in business and still growing. ;) The point is, if it's DRM'd then you are just renting it. For how long? Who knows. 2 years? 10 years? 50 years? The length of time you are allowed to use it is up to the actual owner (not you). The content owner only needs to decide to get out of *that* business, not necessarily go *out* of business. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Andy I'm way out of my depth here - but the Audible web site allows members to stream content directly from their web page library - no downloads invovled. Might this offer a way to access content that's not in the ACC format? rc andyg;504299 Wrote: FYI Audible is AAC content so yes, it would only be possible on Radio/Touch/future stuff. -- robchel robchel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12162 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
robchel;504438 Wrote: Andy I'm way out of my depth here - but the Audible web site allows members to stream content directly from their web page library - no downloads invovled. Might this offer a way to access content that's not in the ACC format? rc Yeah they do have this feature but it's still AAC. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
There must be some sort of telepathy because I just logged on/re-registered after a long absence to start a thread. I wouldn't know where to start myself -but are there any plug-in developers out there who would be wiling to pick this up. -- gariboldi gariboldi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Well I just tossed my hat into the ring and voted. As for the sceptics..I dunno, I dont think I should wait until audible (amazon) feels my wrath, and scrap the DRM components off the file format and maybe then I can listen to my files on a sqeezebox. I think audiobooks will be more of harder nut to crack than the music debate, and frankly audiobooks arent that big a deal to the larger consumer base to cause a ruckus about..I dunno.. sigh..I'm just not that political regarding my audiobooks...I signed up on Audible the moment it went live and have a huge collection of books, prior I had been buying books on tape and CD so I've been doing this for 20-year easy...I mean I have a HUGE collection. I thoroughly enjoy listening to them, and do daily..even more than music..and I can do that right now on my sonos (and iTunes), I'd love to be able to do so on my squeezebox as well. Inevitably somethings gotta go!, if sonos gets slacker before the squeezebox gets audible, the squeezebox goes! If squeezebox gets audible before the sonos gets slacker...the sonos goes. Again, both work flawlessly in my modest setup..(only use it in two rooms, so not as fancy as some other folks) so in practice none works better than the other..they both just work so I'm favoring none over the other, but it's feeling cumbersome to have both..the simple and easy has become clunky. -- Moozh Moozh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Moozh;503719 Wrote: Well I just tossed my hat into the ring and voted. As for the sceptics..I dunno, I dont think I should wait until audible (amazon) feels my wrath, and scrap the DRM components off the file format and maybe then I can listen to my files on a sqeezebox. I think audiobooks will be more of harder nut to crack than the music debate, and frankly audiobooks arent that big a deal to the larger consumer base to cause a ruckus about..I dunno.. sigh..I'm just not that political regarding my audiobooks... I'm also not political. But I use iPods, mp3-capable car radios, several Squeezeboxes and an Android phone and I simply don't want to pay for crap that I then can't really use. And it's not about a large population, a large share of their customers will be enough. At least over here in Germany most of the stuff that is on Audible is also available in mp3 format on other platforms. One platform I'm using (soforthoeren) moved some stuff to WMA a few years back under pressure of the publishers and after some complaints and maybe some drop in sales they switched back to mp3. Not buying the stuff actually helps! -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Like others I've been collecting digital books for decades - and simply desire to enjoy access to my elibrary via MySN.com. I don't see this as incompatible with trying to change DRM and pricing, as those issues are best addressed through individual purchasing decisions. The alternative is a bit like telling folks to stop listening to all the DRM music files they've bought. BTW, you may download [for free] from those rascals at Audible.com; FREE: The Future of a Radical Price by Chris Anderson. Very interesting insights into the when/why/how of free. rc -- robchel robchel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12162 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
robchel;503725 Wrote: ... I don't see this as incompatible with trying to change DRM and pricing, as those issues are best addressed through individual purchasing decisions. The alternative is a bit like telling folks to stop listening to all the DRM music files they've bought No, not at all, it's folks telling you not to make the same mistake TWICE! :) In fact, it's the DRM telling you stop listening to your DRM music on any platform not approved by the DRM rights holder (which is NOT you). Supporting *any* institution that employs DRM is the same as approving bad behaviour. It's no different than you ignoring the do not feed the bears signs in the parks, then getting all teary eyed when they must shoot the bear for getting too close to humans. ;) I've always avoided DRM, never been bitten, always found what I wanted elsewhere absent the DRM headaches restrictions. By all means vote with your $$$'s, but understand what you are indeed voting for. :) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
toby10;503749 Wrote: No, not at all, it's folks telling you not to make the same mistake TWICE! :) In fact, it's the DRM telling you stop listening to your DRM music on any platform not approved by the DRM rights holder (which is NOT you). Supporting *any* institution that employs DRM is the same as approving bad behaviour. It's no different than you ignoring the do not feed the bears signs in the parks, then getting all teary eyed when they must shoot the bear for getting too close to humans. ;) I've always avoided DRM, never been bitten, always found what I wanted elsewhere absent the DRM headaches restrictions. By all means vote with your $$$'s, but understand what you are indeed voting for. :) You guys do know that for $20 a month w/ audible subscription you get to download 2 audiobooks of your choice... I mean if you stick to your subscription plan you essentially pay $10 per book. Those alternatives are available but if those alternatives are purchased via a mainstream alternative source i.e retail or online bookstore, you pay the full retail price. This isnt a case of paying for crap that I really cant use...I have been able to use it without issue from day one and continue to be able to use it, I just singularly cant use it on the squeezebox, that honestly is not reason enough for me to send a message to the powers that be at audible and threaten to leave if they dont cut out their tomfoolery post-haste! Keep in mind that there are competitors out there that offer additional options that will determine which system some folks purchase over others. (http://raumfeld.com for example is enroute..) Squeezebox seems flexible and open enough and popular enough with the demographic that seems predisposed to tinkering that I would suspect someone in the community has the where-withall to create a soloution to various solutions...(that BBCi player for example) I hope a skilled and willing soul or/and the folks at logitech/slimbox team see's the request and makes a solution. While the debate is good and all and I'm sure that your reasons for frowning on digital content with DRM barriers have a measure of merit philisophically to like-minded folk as yourself, BUT the main competitor already has a solution. This does seem to be the most open of the available options so I would suspect it would be the most dynamic with solutions, fixes and new options. I as a audible customer apparently am pleased enough with the product and service that they have had me as a customer since the day they went live ($20 a month for 2-audiobooks of your choice..heck yeah!). Personally I feel like I have a high quality product that has pleased me for years and have had it at quite a discount when I compare what I would have to pay for the same content if I bought the CD version. ..if Sonos had Slacker I would have never posted this, the squeezebox would simply be on e-bay but I do suspect the light-hearted debate is worth having (so long as it doesnt get in the way of fix ;)) -- Moozh Moozh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Squeezebox seems flexible and open enough and popular enough with the demographic that seems predisposed to tinkering that I would suspect someone in the community has the where-withall to create a soloution to various solutions...(that BBCi player for example) Unlike BBCiPlayer Audible is DRM so to creating an unlicensed plugin to play the file would be illegal. Furthermore Audible change their mechanism regularly so whoever provides the plugin would have to provide ongoing support. See this thread about the effort to convert Audible files to MP3 so they can be played on other platforms such as Linux. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/589613 -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
robchel;503725 Wrote: Like others I've been collecting digital books for decades - and simply desire to enjoy access to my elibrary via MySN.com. I don't see this as incompatible with trying to change DRM and pricing, as those issues are best addressed through individual purchasing decisions. The alternative is a bit like telling folks to stop listening to all the DRM music files they've bought. What DRM'd audio content does a Squeezebox play? How many non-Zune's play Zune music? Why did Walmart and others drop 'Plays for Sure' WMA and switch to mp3? Why did iTMS remove DRM? BTW, you may download [for free] from those rascals at Audible.com; FREE: The Future of a Radical Price by Chris Anderson. Very interesting insights into the when/why/how of free. Not sure why I would download it when I can't hear it.. It won't play on any of my systems. Does it confuse the two definitions of 'free'? 'Free as in Freedom, Not Free Beer' as the FSF says. Sure seems to from the title... if he can't get a basic premise of Free (as in Freedom) Software correct, his conclusions will be as nonsensical as if he thought 'software' was a reference to what 'Plushies' wear. Again: why download something I can not listen to how I want, whether it's on SB or for AudioBooks, my car stereo. That is not freedom. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
snarlydwarf;503857 Wrote: What DRM'd audio content does a Squeezebox play? Rhapsody. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
pippin;503883 Wrote: Rhapsody. And oddly it's the most unreliable aspect of the Squeezebox experience, imho. Whether this is DRM related or not, I don't know. Could be that Rhapsody's service is just plain shoddy. (Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.) I agree Audible support would be cool. Would be cooler if they dropped the DRM. -- ajkidle 2x SBR, Boom, Radio, iPeng ajkidle's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18929 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Download Anderson's book Free... here - no Audible involved: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-07/mf_freer Anderson addresses different meanings attributed to the term free - his ideas are thought provoking and highly debatable. With this I conclude my free [as in non paying] work in his promotion department. rc snarlydwarf;503857 Wrote: Does it confuse the two definitions of 'free'? 'Free as in Freedom, Not Free Beer' as the FSF says. Sure seems to from the title... if he can't get a basic premise of Free (as in Freedom) Software correct, his conclusions will be as nonsensical as if he thought 'software' was a reference to what 'Plushies' wear. Again: why download something I can not listen to how I want, whether it's on SB or for AudioBooks, my car stereo. That is not freedom. -- robchel robchel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12162 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
It seems that DRM is largely about locking customers into a proprietary relationship - like a wedding. Yeah OK, most of them anyway. You go to the alter willingly and agree to take the bitter with the sweet. So far the Audible relationship has avoided serious conflicts and proved satisfactory... many years after the honeymoon and still no counseling. Others may see the relationship as abusive - that's their call. I also wish to go on record as being against shooting the bears... and Audible ;) - had no idea animals ran it! rc toby10;503749 Wrote: Supporting *any* institution that employs DRM is the same as approving bad behaviour. It's no different than you ignoring the do not feed the bears signs in the parks, then getting all teary eyed when they must shoot the bear for getting too close to humans. ;) I've always avoided DRM, never been bitten, always found what I wanted elsewhere absent the DRM headaches restrictions. By all means vote with your $$$'s, but understand what you are indeed voting for. :) -- robchel robchel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12162 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
robchel;504029 Wrote: It seems that DRM is largely about locking customers into a proprietary relationship - like a wedding. Yeah OK, most of them anyway. You go to the alter willingly and agree to take the bitter with the sweet. So far the Audible relationship has avoided serious conflicts and proved satisfactory... many years after the honeymoon and still no counseling. Others may see the relationship as abusive - that's their call. There's a lot of DRM in the audiobook download world. It may not be Audible's idea or preference, it might be required by their suppliers' licenses. -- Goodsounds Goodsounds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Has anyone actually paying for DRM content thought about the future ? Can you or your loved ones listen to these files in +30 years ? DRM + proprietary formats contribute to the digital dark age we will face. This information loss is a massive problem for human culture. Information must be in such format that it can be migrated to new storage formats indefinitely otherwise it's useless. Was it play for sure or something ? ( sorry no memory for that exact drm scheme )that M$ dropped so no customer can use their files in the future when their current hardware quits. I'll bet that it is fileformats out there that nobody knows how to encode today. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBRto be stuffed in a box in the attic ) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to controll this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
If you end up opening an enhancement request, please post a link here -- I'd vote for it. Mitch On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Moozh moozh.44dyfb1262812...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com wrote: I dont believe one exists but I sure would be great if the squeezebox would be able to play audible.com files. I'm somewhat stuck in the middle of a sonos unit and my squeezebox duet, both work perfectly but the present shortcomings on them are.. SONOS: missing- slacker di.fm mediafly sky.fm live365 absolute radio uk SQUEEZEBOX: missing- audible.com of course the importance of any depends on what your listening preferences are but simply put I cant do without my audible and would like very much to find a way to get them managed and played via my squeezebox. Right now I have to fire up iTunes and play them via my PC speakers. Does anyone know if an Audible.com app or 'whatever' is discussed or otherwise some feature that will be added to the list of services the squeezebox can work with? -- Moozh Moozh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
I'm against it. Publishers like audible have to learn that DRM sucks like the record companies learned it. Then the problem immediately goes away. Buy somewhere else. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
Add my support for an Audible.com APP - it would offer a wonderful benefit to those with an Audible library. Rob Moozh;503580 Wrote: I dont believe one exists but I sure would be great if the squeezebox would be able to play audible.com files. -- robchel robchel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12162 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Would truly love an Audible.com app to be available on Squeezebox
pippin;503618 Wrote: I'm against it. Publishers like audible have to learn that DRM sucks like the record companies learned it. Then the problem immediately goes away. Buy somewhere else. Same view. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73651 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
