[discuss] Page numbering

[J. Robert Lennon]

Hi there--

Just wanted to drop a suggestion regarding the upcoming version of 
OpenOffice... I LOVE this program, especially writer, and regard it as 
superior to MS Word...except in one instance: page numbering.  I want to 
be able to insert page numbers in a document OUTSIDE the margin 
formatting, and I want to be able to start at any number, not just "1".  
Unfortunately the offset command doesn't seem to work, the footer steals 
page space from the main body, and all of this takes half a dozen 
commands to execute.  I have to load things into Word just to print, 
because I often print separate chapters of a large document-in-progress 
(in my case, a novel).  Please provide an easy page number insertion 
command in the next version!


JRL

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[discuss] page numbering

[Larry Gusaas]

I sent this before but it didn't seem to go through


On 17 Mar 2005 at 5:54, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> > Open Office CAN NOT do page numbers.  With a book project I needed Pages > i,ii, 
... at the
> beginning and page 1, 2, ... later!!! 
>
> Yes it can.
>
> If you take a look at the OOoAuthors user guides you will see that this is exactly what we have. 
The
> first page has no page number. The following 2 pages have Roman numerals (i, ii) and the following
> pages have Arabic numbers (1, 2, ...). 
>
> Take a look:
>
> http://oooauthors.org/groups/authors/userguide/writerguide/IntroStyles.sxw
>
> This is the "Intro to Styles" chapter. Not only does it use the feature you ask about, 
it also
> explains how to do it (see the section on page styles). 
>
"Intro to Styles" states
Page numbering
Many people first encounter page styles 
when they want to number pages. 
OpenOffice.org (OOo) has a very powerful system for numbering pages, but to make 
full use of it you need to learn something about page styles.

It is true that it is a powerful system for page numbering. However, it is complicated and 
completely non-intuitive. Every other word processor I have used has a simple button on 
the menu to turn page numbering on or off, which is all I need most of the time. Open 
Office doesn't. It is difficult to figure out how to use what should be a simple on or off 
feature. Not everyone needs to set up complex styles  just to use a simple function that 
other  word processors do in on step.


 - -
Larry Gusaas,
Moose Jaw, Sask.
http://members.shaw.ca/lgusaas/


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[discuss] Page numbering

[Rick Klaw]

Are there plans to simply page numbering, footers, and headers?  It is
needlessly complex and one of the bigger flaws that prevents Open Office
from becoming of everyday use to regular, non-tech savvy folk.  While I was
able to figure it, I have had to explain to many of my friends and
relatives.  A few of them have even scrapped using Open Office because they
can't remember all the steps involved with page numbering (not too mention
headers and footers).

Overall, you make an excellent product and the improvements between versions
1 and 2 were significant.  I'm hoping that this page numbering bugaboo will
be improved in later versions.

Thank you for listening.

--
Rick Whitten-Klaw
*

Author of Geek Confidential: Echoes From the 21st Century NOW AVAILABLE from
MonkeyBrain, Inc., http://www.monkeybrainbooks.com/

To be alerted about all things Klaw, join the Geek Confidential mailing list
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geekconfidential/join

[discuss] Page numbering

[Gilles SICHE]

Hello,

does anyone know if it is possible to number pages with OOo from, say, page
10 onwards (imagining that the first part of the paper document you are
creating is another file of 9 pages)?

Thank you in advance,

Gilles Siche


--
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29400 Landivisiau
Académie de Rennes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [discuss] page numbering

[CPHennessy]

On Saturday 19 March 2005 01:41, Larry Gusaas wrote:
[snip]
> "Intro to Styles" states
> Page numbering
> Many people first encounter page styles when they want to number pages.
> OpenOffice.org (OOo) has a very powerful system for numbering pages,
> but to make full use of it you need to learn something about page styles.
>
> It is true that it is a powerful system for page numbering. However, it is
> complicated and completely non-intuitive. Every other word processor I have
> used has a simple button on the menu to turn page numbering on or off,
> which is all I need most of the time. Open Office doesn't. It is difficult
> to figure out how to use what should be a simple on or off feature. Not
> everyone needs to set up complex styles  just to use a simple function that
> other  word processors do in on step.

Hi Larry,
 You do not need anything complex. Simply "Insert" -> "Header" and then 
"Insert" -> "Field" -> "Page Number". Obviously for more complex needs 
OpenOffice.org offers more complex possibilities.


-- 
CPH : openoffice.org contributor

Maybe your question has been answered already?
http://user-faq.openoffice.org/#FAQ

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RE: [discuss] Page numbering

[Justin Fitzgibbon]

Have you considered writing a macro ? Just use the
macro recorder to record a typical page number insert
then if needed change the critical values to variables
And prompt the user for the value, you can then assign the
Macro to a toolbar.
e.g.
Dim Pageoffset as Integer
Pageoffset = InputBox( "Please enter the page offset:" )


-Original Message-
From: J. Robert Lennon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, 1 August 2005 5:33 AM
To: discuss@openoffice.org
Subject: [discuss] Page numbering

Hi there--

Just wanted to drop a suggestion regarding the upcoming version of
OpenOffice... I LOVE this program, especially writer, and regard it as
superior to MS Word...except in one instance: page numbering.  I want to
be able to insert page numbers in a document OUTSIDE the margin
formatting, and I want to be able to start at any number, not just "1".

Unfortunately the offset command doesn't seem to work, the footer steals
page space from the main body, and all of this takes half a dozen
commands to execute.  I have to load things into Word just to print,
because I often print separate chapters of a large document-in-progress
(in my case, a novel).  Please provide an easy page number insertion
command in the next version!

JRL

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[William W. Austin]

On 2005-07-31 15:32:41, J. Robert Lennon wrote:

Hi there--

Just wanted to drop a suggestion regarding the upcoming version of  
OpenOffice... I LOVE this program, especially writer, and regard it  
as superior to MS Word...except in one instance: page numbering.  I  
want to be able to insert page numbers in a document OUTSIDE the  
margin formatting, and I want to be able to start at any number, not  
just "1".  Unfortunately the offset command doesn't seem to work, the  
footer steals page space from the main body, and all of this takes  
half a dozen commands to execute.  I have to load things into Word  
just to print, because I often print separate chapters of a large  
document-in-progress (in my case, a novel).  Please provide an easy  
page number insertion command in the next version!


This one is alaready easy.  Already have a page header or footer?   
Great.  Create a small frame and anchor it to one of them.  Put it  
*ANYWHERE* on the page (inside/outside margins, headers, or footers -  
it really doesn't matter).  Put the page number in it.  You're done,  
and it's on every page.  (Do the same with right and left pages if  
you're doing those.)


Don't have a header or footer on the page?  No problem.  Add one with  
an offset of 0" and as small as OOo will allow (this is from memory - I  
think it's probably going to be 0.04" (a little less than 3 printers'  
points).  Anchor to it.  Same trick.  Again, you're done.


BTW, you can set the page number, too - I know it's possible because I  
have documents where I have accidentally done it.  I just don't have a  
clue as to what I did to do it (and never needed to know so didn't  
bother to try to look it up).  Also docs from other formats (other wp  
progs) do translate without hosing the "reset" page numbers, so I'm  
sure it can be done.  Although I admit that I haven't seen it in the  
docs anywayer.


Anybody know how to change (reset) a page number easily?  Oops, I see  
that Justin Fitzgibbon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> just  
posted the how-to on that.


- william


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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Jonathon Coombes]

On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 00:56 +, William W. Austin wrote:
SNIP!
> 
> Anybody know how to change (reset) a page number easily?  Oops, I see  
> that Justin Fitzgibbon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> just  
> posted the how-to on that.

Hi William, 

This information is also in the OOo Knowledgebase at the link below.

Regards
Jonathon
-- 
OOo Tips (RSS) - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/tips.rss
OOo Knowledgebase - http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/
Cybersite Consulting - http://www.cybersite.com.au/
Training4Linux - http://www.training4linux.com 



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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Guido Pinkernell]

Am Sonntag, 31. Juli 2005 21:32 schrieb J. Robert Lennon:
> Hi there--

> formatting, and I want to be able to start at any number, not just "1".
> Unfortunately the offset command doesn't seem to work,

Offset isn't the right tool, although, in the GUI, it springs readily (too 
readily) into sight. Here's the right way to do it:

http://documentation.openoffice.org/faqs/word_processing/044.html

Guido

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Jonathon Blake]

Rick wrote:


Are there plans to simply page numbering, footers, and headers?


I'm not sure how they could be simplified, without turning it into
something which is non-functional for anything longer than one page.

xan

jonathon
--
Ethical conduct is a vice.
Corrupt conduct is a virtue.

Motto of Nacarima.

Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Rick,

Rick Klaw wrote:


Are there plans to simply page numbering, footers, and headers?  It is
needlessly complex and one of the bigger flaws that prevents Open Office
from becoming of everyday use to regular, non-tech savvy folk.  While I was
able to figure it, I have had to explain to many of my friends and
relatives.  A few of them have even scrapped using Open Office because they
can't remember all the steps involved with page numbering (not too mention
headers and footers).

Overall, you make an excellent product and the improvements between 
versions

1 and 2 were significant.  I'm hoping that this page numbering bugaboo will
be improved in later versions.

Thank you for listening.


Thanks for your compliments on OOo.
However, reading your complaint, I'm not really sure about the way you 
tried to insert page numbering. So let me try.


There are more advantageous way's to handle headers and footers, but the 
easy steps are as follows:

- Choose Insert|Footer| from the menu;
- Put the cursor in the footer area that is now visible on your screen;
- Choose Insert|Fields|Page number from the menu;
You can position text and the page number-field etc. in the footer area 
as in any other part of the document.


HTH & Greetings,
Cor

(cc because you are not subcribed; pls keep mailings on the list)


--
Cor Nouws

O  http://nl.openoffice.org/waarom  O
O   www.bsooo.nlO
.   Open . For business .
o  www.nouenoff.nl  o

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Rick,

Rick Klaw wrote:


That is how you do it except that with most documents it is considered bad
form to put page numbers, headers, and/or footers on the first page.  To
accomplish not posting a page number is needlessly complicated and
counter-intuitive to most non-tech users. 

[...]
I agree that setting a different page number on page one askes for extra 
action. Can be easiest done by right clicking the name of the page style 
on the status bar, and choose 'first page' there. Then you can choose to 
set the footer only in Default.


But I agree: one dialog to set the page number is easier.
However, not setting a page number on page one, involves using a 
different page style. And must that style then automatically take 
settings made to - for example - the default page style?
I do not say, that there might not be way's to make it easier, but doing 
that won't be simple, I gues.



Also, there are other times that page numbering is not
needed on every page.  Ease of use and more flexibility would be a huge
plus.

[...]
I don't understand the lack of flexibility, you are talking of. Can you 
pls explain?


Thanks,
Cor



--
Cor Nouws

O  http://nl.openoffice.org/waarom  O
O   www.bsooo.nlO
.   Open . For business .
o  www.nouenoff.nl  o

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Mathias Bauer]

Jonathon Blake wrote:

> Rick wrote:
> 
>> Are there plans to simply page numbering, footers, and headers?
> 
> I'm not sure how they could be simplified, without turning it into
> something which is non-functional for anything longer than one page.

OOo forces the user to do a lot of things manually that could be done
behind the scenes. I assume that this is what Rick is complaining about.
I agree with him that this could be made easier without losing the power
that OOo offers to the advanced users.

I could imagine something like

Add page numbering

{] Starting from the current page
{] Starting from page [...]
[] Whole document
[] All pages sharing the page style of the current page

Insert header / footer

[] For the current page only
[] For the current page and all subsequent pages
{] Starting from page [...]
[] Whole document
[] All pages sharing the page style of the current page

Maybe some of my options are superfluous or I missed some, but I hope
you get the idea.

All necessary page style magic can be done as now, but without bothering
the user with the details. An application should make life easier for
users if possible.

Best regards,
Mathias

-- 
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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 08:46 +0200, Mathias Bauer wrote:
> Jonathon Blake wrote:
> 
> > Rick wrote:
> > 
> >> Are there plans to simply page numbering, footers, and headers?
> > 
> > I'm not sure how they could be simplified, without turning it into
> > something which is non-functional for anything longer than one page.
> 
> OOo forces the user to do a lot of things manually that could be done
> behind the scenes. I assume that this is what Rick is complaining about.
> I agree with him that this could be made easier without losing the power
> that OOo offers to the advanced users.
> 
> I could imagine something like
> 
> Add page numbering
> 
> {] Starting from the current page
> {] Starting from page [...]
> [] Whole document
> [] All pages sharing the page style of the current page
> 
> Insert header / footer
> 
> [] For the current page only
> [] For the current page and all subsequent pages
> {] Starting from page [...]
> [] Whole document
> [] All pages sharing the page style of the current page
> 
> Maybe some of my options are superfluous or I missed some, but I hope
> you get the idea.
> 
> All necessary page style magic can be done as now, but without bothering
> the user with the details. An application should make life easier for
> users if possible.

I was just dealing with a longish document which needed different page
styles, numbering and footers and it took me quite a while to work out
how to do it.  If I didn't find it very obvious, I doubt many people
will. I think your suggestion is a good one, Mathias. One way would be
to have chapters that define a new style. eg go to insert, insert new
Chapter, give the chapter a style definition. Or click in an existing
page - start new chapter and give the chapter the style attributes. It
just seems to me conceptually clearer than just having a whole range of
style types on their own. So Chapter 1 might be the front cover with one
page style, Chapter 2 the contents index with another chapter style then
Chapter 3 the main text and chapter 4 the references. So the fundamental
styles could be applied to selected text, paragraphs, pages, chapters or
the whole document. Editing a chapter style would only change it in the
selected chapter etc.

I also found the numbering of paragraphs confusing, define a style say
hanging indent but then having to apply a ready made numbering style
that has its position and spacing adjustment in a completely different
place to get the alignment of text and bullets right. Perhaps there is
some functionality here that I'm missing but to me it would be more
logical that bullets and numbering styles were just the same as any
other style with a bullet simply a modified character at the beginning
of a line.

Regards,
-- 
Ian Lynch
www.theINGOTs.org
www.opendocumentfellowship.org
www.schoolforge.org.uk


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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[jonathon]

Mathias Bauer wrote:

OOo forces the user to do a lot of things manually that could be done behind the scenes. 


I am writing/editing a 55 volume set of books.  Page numbering is 
_automatically_ and _correctly_ done, behind the scenes. [Even for the 
pages where I switch to Hindi numerals.]



Add page numbering
{] Starting from the current page


Currently available.


{] Starting from page [...]


Currently available.


[] Whole document


Currently available.


[] All pages sharing the page style of the current page


Currently available.



Insert header / footer
[] For the current page only


Currently available.


[] For the current page and all subsequent pages


Currently available.


{] Starting from page [...]


Currently available.


[] Whole document


Currently available.


[] All pages sharing the page style of the current page


Currently available.


All necessary page style magic can be done as now, but without bothering the 
user with the details. An application should make life easier for users if 
possible.


The only issue is whether or not the user is willing to learn how to use 
their tools.


xan

jonathon

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[André Wyrwa]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I think the suggestion was not about functionality but about the way of
accessing that functionality. AKA UI.

André.


jonathon wrote:
> Mathias Bauer wrote:
> 
>> OOo forces the user to do a lot of things manually that could be done
>> behind the scenes. 
> 
> I am writing/editing a 55 volume set of books.  Page numbering is
> _automatically_ and _correctly_ done, behind the scenes. [Even for the
> pages where I switch to Hindi numerals.]
> 
>> Add page numbering
>> {] Starting from the current page
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> {] Starting from page [...]
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> [] Whole document
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> [] All pages sharing the page style of the current page
> 
> Currently available.
> 
> 
>> Insert header / footer
>> [] For the current page only
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> [] For the current page and all subsequent pages
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> {] Starting from page [...]
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> [] Whole document
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> [] All pages sharing the page style of the current page
> 
> Currently available.
> 
>> All necessary page style magic can be done as now, but without
>> bothering the user with the details. An application should make life
>> easier for users if possible.
> 
> The only issue is whether or not the user is willing to learn how to use
> their tools.
> 
> xan
> 
> jonathon
> 
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> 
> 

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=9ueJ
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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 22:04 +, jonathon wrote:

> The only issue is whether or not the user is willing to learn how to use 
> their tools.

And making it as easy and intuitive as possible so the learning is as
short as possible. Most things can be improved even if they work well or
reasonably well already.

-- 
Ian Lynch
www.theINGOTs.org
www.opendocumentfellowship.org
www.schoolforge.org.uk


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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Mathias Bauer]

jonathon wrote:

> Mathias Bauer wrote:
> 
>> OOo forces the user to do a lot of things manually that could be done behind 
>> the scenes. 
> 
> I am writing/editing a 55 volume set of books.  Page numbering is 
> _automatically_ and _correctly_ done, behind the scenes. [Even for the 
> pages where I switch to Hindi numerals.]
> 
>> Add page numbering
>> {] Starting from the current page
> 
> Currently available.

(snip)

I know that everyhing in my list can be done now, but I think it should
be presented in user compatible terms and not so "techy" as it is now:

>> All necessary page style magic can be done as now, but without
>> bothering the user with the details. An application should make
>> life easier for users if possible.
> 
> The only issue is whether or not the user is willing to learn how to
> use their tools.

This is true but it misses the point. IMHO a tool should be made as
powerful *and* comfortable as possible. To be powerful alone might be OK
for basic tools but not for advanced ones, and I see OOo as an advanced,
end user ready tool. But YMMV, so we can agree to disagree.

As I see it, an advance, end user ready tool should follow the KISS
principle: if something can be done simply it should be done so. Of
course if features are inherently complicated there is no simple way to
access them without losing their power but I doubt that page numbering
or headers and footers are features of that kind.

Best regards,
Mathias

-- 
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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Gilles

(send a cc to you, because you are not subcribed to the mailig list;
pls mail to the list only)

Gilles SICHE wrote:

does anyone know if it is possible to number pages with OOo from, say, page
10 onwards (imagining that the first part of the paper document you are
creating is another file of 9 pages)?


On http://support.openoffice.org/index.html are all resources
Specially the user guide is a wonderfull source.

More help can be found at users@openoffice.org

Greetings,
Cor

--
Cor Nouws

Open . For business
www.bsooo.nl

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Jean Hollis Weber]

Cor Nouws wrote:

Hi Gilles

(send a cc to you, because you are not subcribed to the mailig list;
pls mail to the list only)

Gilles SICHE wrote:
does anyone know if it is possible to number pages with OOo from, say, 
page

10 onwards (imagining that the first part of the paper document you are
creating is another file of 9 pages)?


On http://support.openoffice.org/index.html are all resources
Specially the user guide is a wonderfull source.

More help can be found at users@openoffice.org


The answer to this specific question is here:
http://documentation.openoffice.org/faqs/word_processing/044.html

Regards, Jean
Jean Hollis Weber
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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Peter Kupfer]

Gilles --

Try following the steps here, but instead of -1, use +9 (or whatever works.)



HTH,
--
Peter Kupfer -- Using OOo since 'OO4 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Want to help? http://www.oooauthors.org
For OOo tips: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/ooo_tips_tricks.html
To order OOo: http://openoffice.peschtra.com/distro/ooo_distro.html


Gilles SICHE wrote:

Hello,

does anyone know if it is possible to number pages with OOo from, say, page
10 onwards (imagining that the first part of the paper document you are
creating is another file of 9 pages)?

Thank you in advance,

Gilles Siche




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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Cor Nouws]

Peter Kupfer wrote:

Try following the steps here, but instead of -1, use +9 (or whatever 
works.)





I think the page-number in a table of contents is not OK, when you use 
offset.


Cor

--
Cor Nouws

Open . For business
www.bsooo.nl

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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Peter Kupfer]

Cor --

That is probably true I never thought about that.

Thanks,
Peter

Cor Nouws wrote:

Peter Kupfer wrote:

Try following the steps here, but instead of -1, use +9 (or whatever 
works.)





I think the page-number in a table of contents is not OK, when you use 
offset.


Cor



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Re: [discuss] Page numbering

[Cor Nouws]

Peter Kupfer wrote:


Cor --

That is probably true I never thought about that.

Thanks,


I forward those to the list ;-)


--
Cor Nouws

Open . For business
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