Re: Django and Rails
Hi Enrique Apart from the mailing list, a good place to keep up with Python and Django in general is the http://www.pythonweekly.com/ newsletter. Its not long, is well-structured and will help give some idea of the current "buzz" ... (PS Not everyone is convinced that Rails is "faster" - http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r9=peak=query=1=2=so-0-0-0 but I won't debate the "cooler" part though) On Thursday, 29 May 2014 20:31:17 UTC+2, Enrique Shadah wrote: > > Thanks everyone. You've confirmed what I have suspected. Also, an MIT CS > prof. suggested today to stick to python/django. Rails may be fast and > cool, but that it may offer too much "magic" to really know what's going on > and debug if needed. For a newbie like me, I need explicit guidance and > clear thinking. Maybe when I reach django ninja status, I can try other > more esoteric frameworks. > > > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:36:05 AM UTC-4, willyhakim wrote: >> >> Django learning curve might be steeper than Rails, but it will make you a >> better web dev in the long run. Check out realpython.com and maybe start >> by getting a solid foundation on python >> >> >> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:55:58 PM UTC-5, Enrique Shadah wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to >>> software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I >>> chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at >>> least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic >>> community to learn from. >>> >>> However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. >>> One is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). >>> Another is that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks >>> (staying true to the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can >>> add/subtract fields on table without writing any sql. Django can add >>> fields and tables with syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change >>> whether the field is required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This >>> seems pretty silly given that new site is constantly changing, thus models >>> will suffer many changes as users suggest/reject features. >>> >>> These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django >>> is awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just >>> learn Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/a444dc10-9cda-4bfb-aab2-6dc31c4ef099%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Django and Rails
Thanks everyone. You've confirmed what I have suspected. Also, an MIT CS prof. suggested today to stick to python/django. Rails may be fast and cool, but that it may offer too much "magic" to really know what's going on and debug if needed. For a newbie like me, I need explicit guidance and clear thinking. Maybe when I reach django ninja status, I can try other more esoteric frameworks. On Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:36:05 AM UTC-4, willyhakim wrote: > > Django learning curve might be steeper than Rails, but it will make you a > better web dev in the long run. Check out realpython.com and maybe start > by getting a solid foundation on python > > > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:55:58 PM UTC-5, Enrique Shadah wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to >> software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I >> chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at >> least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic >> community to learn from. >> >> However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. >> One is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). >> Another is that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks >> (staying true to the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can >> add/subtract fields on table without writing any sql. Django can add >> fields and tables with syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change >> whether the field is required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This >> seems pretty silly given that new site is constantly changing, thus models >> will suffer many changes as users suggest/reject features. >> >> These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django >> is awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just >> learn Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/f3487048-480b-4ee9-a27a-6a7976e18548%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Django and Rails
Django learning curve might be steeper than Rails, but it will make you a better web dev in the long run. Check out realpython.com and maybe start by getting a solid foundation on python On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:55:58 PM UTC-5, Enrique Shadah wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to > software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I > chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at > least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic > community to learn from. > > However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. > One is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). > Another is that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks > (staying true to the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can > add/subtract fields on table without writing any sql. Django can add > fields and tables with syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change > whether the field is required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This > seems pretty silly given that new site is constantly changing, thus models > will suffer many changes as users suggest/reject features. > > These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django > is awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just > learn Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/c0cdd6b2-c5a0-47d6-a417-d905503dabf8%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Django and Rails
Try the tutorial and if you like it then stick with Django. Also, go and meet other python developers. Meetup is good for finding local groups. There might also be an active SIG nearby. K On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:55:58 PM UTC-7, Enrique Shadah wrote: > > Hi all, > > These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django > is awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just > learn Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/c999fe3c-52ac-4ca1-916e-440c5e2490da%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Django and Rails
Also, the community certainly doesn't seem to be fading to me - between this list, SO and the IRC channel, there is lots of movement. There is a new release every 6 months or so and the devs are pushing security updates at about one every two months although that's more dependent on when the security issues are discovered than running to a plan. I wouldn't fear the Django community disappearing anytime soon. cheers L. On 29 May 2014 14:40, Lachlan Musicman <data...@gmail.com> wrote: > For db changes, you want South, although the author of South has just > finished integrating it into Django 1.7. > > http://south.aeracode.org/ > http://south.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ > http://south.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial/index.html > > Version 1.7 of Django, due any day now, will have migrations built in. > > cheers > L. > > On 29 May 2014 13:55, Enrique Shadah <esha...@startupblvd.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to >> software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I >> chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at >> least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic >> community to learn from. >> >> However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. One >> is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). Another is >> that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks (staying true to >> the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can add/subtract fields on >> table without writing any sql. Django can add fields and tables with >> syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change whether the field is >> required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This seems pretty silly given >> that new site is constantly changing, thus models will suffer many changes >> as users suggest/reject features. >> >> These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django is >> awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just learn >> Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/228300d7-8e5a-4a9b-8165-45e33168cc7f%40googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > The idea is that a beautiful image is frameable. Everything you need > to see is there: It’s everything you want, and it’s very pleasing > because there’s no extra information that you don’t get to see. > Everything’s in a nice package for you. But sublime art is > unframeable: It’s an image or idea that implies that there’s a bigger > image or idea that you can’t see: You’re only getting to look at a > fraction of it, and in that way it’s both beautiful and scary, because > it’s reminding you that there’s more that you don’t have access to. > It’s now sort of left the piece itself and it’s become your own > invention, so it’s personal as well as being scary as well as being > beautiful, which is what I really like about art like that. > --- > Adventure Time http://theholenearthecenteroftheworld.com/ -- The idea is that a beautiful image is frameable. Everything you need to see is there: It’s everything you want, and it’s very pleasing because there’s no extra information that you don’t get to see. Everything’s in a nice package for you. But sublime art is unframeable: It’s an image or idea that implies that there’s a bigger image or idea that you can’t see: You’re only getting to look at a fraction of it, and in that way it’s both beautiful and scary, because it’s reminding you that there’s more that you don’t have access to. It’s now sort of left the piece itself and it’s become your own invention, so it’s personal as well as being scary as well as being beautiful, which is what I really like about art like that. --- Adventure Time http://theholenearthecenteroftheworld.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe
Re: Django and Rails
For db changes, you want South, although the author of South has just finished integrating it into Django 1.7. http://south.aeracode.org/ http://south.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ http://south.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial/index.html Version 1.7 of Django, due any day now, will have migrations built in. cheers L. On 29 May 2014 13:55, Enrique Shadah <esha...@startupblvd.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to > software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I > chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at > least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic > community to learn from. > > However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. One > is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). Another is > that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks (staying true to > the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can add/subtract fields on > table without writing any sql. Django can add fields and tables with > syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change whether the field is > required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This seems pretty silly given > that new site is constantly changing, thus models will suffer many changes > as users suggest/reject features. > > These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django is > awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just learn > Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/228300d7-8e5a-4a9b-8165-45e33168cc7f%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The idea is that a beautiful image is frameable. Everything you need to see is there: It’s everything you want, and it’s very pleasing because there’s no extra information that you don’t get to see. Everything’s in a nice package for you. But sublime art is unframeable: It’s an image or idea that implies that there’s a bigger image or idea that you can’t see: You’re only getting to look at a fraction of it, and in that way it’s both beautiful and scary, because it’s reminding you that there’s more that you don’t have access to. It’s now sort of left the piece itself and it’s become your own invention, so it’s personal as well as being scary as well as being beautiful, which is what I really like about art like that. --- Adventure Time http://theholenearthecenteroftheworld.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/CAGBeqiOVMoeto0LABab%3D_1y13q87NQ%3D1gA9HmT6KQo1nCqdW-w%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Django and Rails
Hi all, I am learning Django after trying once with Rails. As I am a newbie to software development, Rails seemed more obscure and difficult to digest. I chose to learn Django because Python is easier to understand than Ruby (at least to me) and because I thought it had a bigger or more enthusiastic community to learn from. However, I am finding that Django has some limitations Rails does not. One is that its community is fading (or at least it feels that way). Another is that Rails seems to be better at automating mundane tasks (staying true to the DRY principle). For example, rake db migrate can add/subtract fields on table without writing any sql. Django can add fields and tables with syncdb, but if I need to subtract fields or change whether the field is required or not, I am faced to writing sql. This seems pretty silly given that new site is constantly changing, thus models will suffer many changes as users suggest/reject features. These are just two limitations off the top of my head. I am sure Django is awesome, but could anyone share their views on whether I should just learn Rails off the bat instead of going the Django then Rails route? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/228300d7-8e5a-4a9b-8165-45e33168cc7f%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Another Django vs. Rails comparison
This is a helpful list of pros/cons. Thanks. Your "development philosophy" point especially matches up well with my own experience. A friend and I just wrote a website for a new small business ( http://www.final-draft-editing.com/) and chose Django -- after an initial trial of Ruby on Rails -- more or less for the same reason you ended up deciding on it: the Rails framework does many things by "magic" and you have to learn certain conventions to make sure the magic works for you. In django, the interface between application code and framework is much more explicit. Reasonably capable python coders can jump in without as much of a learning curve. (Also, Python is a much more pleasant language to work in than Ruby, IMO.) -Paul On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jason <ja...@feedmagnet.com> wrote: > > This is my first post to this group, but I've benefited from reading > other's posts and I'm looking forward to getting more involved. I just > picked Django/Python as the framework for a new company I just > started: FeedMagnet (http://feedmagnet.com). > > We want to get more involved in the community - we already have some > CouchDB integration code that we're going to open source in the next > couple weeks - and I thought a good way to get involved initially > would be to share my experience choosing between Django and Rails. > > I read a lot of other posts on the topic (many of which are linked > from my post) and talked with lots of other developers before making > the decision. The single sentence summary of my post is that Django > and Rails are both great frameworks and it is more important to get > the right team in place and let them pick the one they like best. > > While I definitely favor Django, I think I am still new enough to the > community that my opinions shouldn't be too biased. Hopefully this > post helps other make the right decision for their team/project. > > Here's the link: http://beta.feedmagnet.com/blog/django-vs-rails/ > > > > -- Paul Ragnar Eastlund Me: (relating a joke) "...so I said, 'I'm working at Google. I'm the guy who frantically does research when you type in a query.'" Lorraine: "Oh." (long pause) "But is that really what you do?" Sharon: "...And now, the joke is on you." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Another Django vs. Rails comparison
This is my first post to this group, but I've benefited from reading other's posts and I'm looking forward to getting more involved. I just picked Django/Python as the framework for a new company I just started: FeedMagnet (http://feedmagnet.com). We want to get more involved in the community - we already have some CouchDB integration code that we're going to open source in the next couple weeks - and I thought a good way to get involved initially would be to share my experience choosing between Django and Rails. I read a lot of other posts on the topic (many of which are linked from my post) and talked with lots of other developers before making the decision. The single sentence summary of my post is that Django and Rails are both great frameworks and it is more important to get the right team in place and let them pick the one they like best. While I definitely favor Django, I think I am still new enough to the community that my opinions shouldn't be too biased. Hopefully this post helps other make the right decision for their team/project. Here's the link: http://beta.feedmagnet.com/blog/django-vs-rails/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: defecting to django from rails
On 3/20/07, rubdabadub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you very much for all the input. I found them to be > very valuable. As for me I am back to python interactive shell i.e > python -i > Well you have to start somewhere :-) Run, don't walk, to get IPython working. http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/ If you're on windows, there's a bit of extra work involved in getting syntax highlighting and auto-complete working, but you'll make back the time in a single day. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: defecting to django from rails
Doug & James: Thank you very much for all the input. I found them to be very valuable. As for me I am back to python interactive shell i.e python -i Well you have to start somewhere :-) Thanks again for all the comments and inputs. Very kind. Regards Raj --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: defecting to django from rails
On Mar 17, 5:09 pm, "rubdabadub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > Now I also need to learn Python from scratch! Man! Python is a rather easy language to pick up. I suggest you start here: http://www.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide Learning python through Django is kind of like learning C++ via MFC. Well that over stating things a bit. Django uses some advanced features of the language to get some of its work done. The end result is some of it appears to work by magic. This is not that big a deal, but I have seen it trip a few people up. Don't get too bogged down in trying to do things the 'python' or 'Django' way. > 1. How about deployment? Capistrano works with django i mean you can > make so called recipe but is there anything like that in python > world.. NOTE: don't get overwhelmed reading these sites, they are best used as reference or for when you are interested in solving a specific problem. Python has the cheezeshop for python modules, and packages called eggs (think RedHat RPM). http://cheeseshop.python.org/ There is also the ActiveState python cookbook repository: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/ As you noted Capistrano works with django, and the djangosnippet people are working on getting something integrated: http://www.djangosnippets.org/snippets/ The main django wiki site also has many many many pages and links to different django apps ready to plug in. > 2. How about "consuming XML" i didn't find much docs about it. I would > like to edit OPML files via the django-admin. My apps has some > database stuff but mostly I am playing 90% of the time with XML files > and 10% with a db. The best XML processing library in python is ElementTree. It comes with Python2.5 and can be downloaded seperatly for older python releases. You wont find much about consuming XML, generating PDF's, working with images, etc. in the Django docs, because there are standard python modules for dealing with those problems. The python standard library is extensive and so is the cheeseshop. There is a firefox sidebar for the python docs which I use regularly: http://www.edgewall.org/python-sidebar/html/toc-tutorial.html Unfortunately Ruby is becoming synonymous with RoR which is a huge injustice to the language. It means that there is allot of language documentation in the RoR docs (what there are of them). That isn't the case with Django so sometimes it can be confusing to people who have never seen Python before. It can be hard to discern which things are part of the language, the standard libraries, and what is part of Django. Luckily the documentation for all of these is fantastic and the community help is incredible. > 3. There are plenty of python programs out there that is off my > interest is there any "blog post" or anything that could guide me how > to djangofiy these scripts/apps. * Probably a dumb question due to > lack of python knowledge * James posts cover the links you need here. If there are pages dedicated to answering a question, it's defiantly not dumb. > 4. What about migrations i.e Schema Evolution is it in the trunk? Schema migration is a hot topic in general. There is work being done to make it easier to migrate your existing django code to a new schema. Currently you need to do this by hand. There is a wiki page for the progress of this feature: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/SchemaEvolution Django has schema introspection to create django code from an existing DB. http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/legacy_databases/ > 5. Can I hook on to django SVN for production servers? is it a good > idea or should I go with released version? I prefer to use the svn trunk via svn:externals in my own svn project. This way I revision control the version of django I am using with the version of my code. It can also make it easier to upgrade a large number of production machines at once. I use buildbot for this, but there are a number of tools for doing an svn update on N networked machines. I have found the SVN trunk to be exceptionally stable. Django has a good set of standard tests which get run regularly, and I have my own tests for my sites. I recommend going this route. If you want to stick with a specific release of django you can. just set the svn:externals property to that release revision. The new features in django are too good to stick with the older releases. This will may change once 1.0 is released. > More ideas, pointers that will help me forget my loss (last 4 months) > are also welcome :-) Django has a very gradual learning curve over all. It is best to take it one step at a time and try not to do everything all at once. Start with something small and then build, adding features as you need. Start off with a basic model and get used to the django admin and the power of that interface. Then create some simple views of your data. Then add some custom forms. Then move on to login accounts, etc. Building, one step at a time will keep you from being overwhelmed by
Re: defecting to django from rails
On 3/17/07, James Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's also a list of more general resources, including third-party > documentation and applications with code you can look at: > Pasted the wrong link there, should have been http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoResources -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: defecting to django from rails
On 3/17/07, rubdabadub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. How about deployment? Capistrano works with django i mean you can > make so called recipe but is there anything like that in python > world.. I don't know of a direct analogue off the top of my head, but at work we've actually been using Capistrano -- our sysadmin wrote a couple recipes that let us deploy and manage across all our servers, and that's been easier than rolling our own stuff. > 2. How about "consuming XML" i didn't find much docs about it. I would > like to edit OPML files via the django-admin. My apps has some > database stuff but mostly I am playing 90% of the time with XML files > and 10% with a db. Generally you'd use one of the available XML libraries for Python; there are a number of good ones out there which can deal with XML of varying quality. > 3. There are plenty of python programs out there that is off my > interest is there any "blog post" or anything that could guide me how > to djangofiy these scripts/apps. * Probably a dumb question due to > lack of python knowledge * There's a page on the wiki with links to lots of tutorials on specific things; it might be a good start point: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/Tutorials There's also a list of more general resources, including third-party documentation and applications with code you can look at: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/Tutorials > 4. What about migrations i.e Schema Evolution is it in the trunk? No. For the moment you need to write your own SQL to alter your database tables. > 5. Can I hook on to django SVN for production servers? is it a good > idea or should I go with released version? Trunk is pretty good; we're narrowing in on a release, actually, and once it's out we'll be recommending that people go with that, since there will be a few changes going on in trunk for a little while afterwards. -- "Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct -- the best kind of correct." --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
defecting to django from rails
hi: I need to know if i am making a mistake again. I spent last 4 months learning ruby and ruby on rails. All these seems like wasted as i find django doing much of the stuff that i need to do out of the box i.e. tested in the django svn. The biggest problem I find with rails is lack of half ass docs and attitude towards docs. I am completely happy folks not doing docs honestly if the app/gem is going to be used by them only. But when you bring out a gem to the public i subscribe to the "philosophy of how does your gem makes my life better" these means I want to know how can i use it. most of these rubygems works but i just don't know how nor i can't find out how - unless I know how to read the code or i should say read the developers mind. I think Rails should have a new philosophy RTFC - READ the f. code! Sorry for the rant.. I just wasted 4 months of my life that i will never get back! Now I also need to learn Python from scratch! Man! Anyway I have given django a one day trial and i am very very pleased. Couple of quick question for the pros. 1. How about deployment? Capistrano works with django i mean you can make so called recipe but is there anything like that in python world.. 2. How about "consuming XML" i didn't find much docs about it. I would like to edit OPML files via the django-admin. My apps has some database stuff but mostly I am playing 90% of the time with XML files and 10% with a db. 3. There are plenty of python programs out there that is off my interest is there any "blog post" or anything that could guide me how to djangofiy these scripts/apps. * Probably a dumb question due to lack of python knowledge * 4. What about migrations i.e Schema Evolution is it in the trunk? 5. Can I hook on to django SVN for production servers? is it a good idea or should I go with released version? More ideas, pointers that will help me forget my loss (last 4 months) are also welcome :-) Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
django vs pylons - their servers showing a page which uses a template with 5 variables (values returned by the view/controller) no mod_python, apache or any other. I'll test X + lighttp/apache soon (I need to read the docs ;) ) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
is this a test of django vs pylons or a test of mod_python vs wsgi ? a pre-test showing a serving a simple static page through both of them (also 15k) would highlight if django's templating engine is indeed faster than pylons. (and it might convince the pylons team to use mod-python instead of fastcgi) On 17/07/2006, at 7:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > a nice overview of the test (django and pylons) can be found here: > http://www.cms.rk.edu.pl/benchmark.html > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
The test django page used no DB and the test itself didn't do much I/O operations and the system didn't go into swap. As for errors I get this from the running server (in console): ### Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/piotr/nowe/python/django_src/django/core/servers/basehttp.py", line 273, in run self.finish_response() File "/home/piotr/nowe/python/django_src/django/core/servers/basehttp.py", line 312, in finish_response self.write(data) File "/home/piotr/nowe/python/django_src/django/core/servers/basehttp.py", line 391, in write self.send_headers() File "/home/piotr/nowe/python/django_src/django/core/servers/basehttp.py", line 443, in send_headers self.send_preamble() File "/home/piotr/nowe/python/django_src/django/core/servers/basehttp.py", line 372, in send_preamble self._write( File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 256, in write self.flush() File "/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.py", line 243, in flush self._sock.sendall(buffer) error: (32, 'Broken pipe') ## Some more "tests" will come (django and others :)) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
I've done some httperf testing og the django server. I've used Arch Linux (i686) on a Acer Aspire 5002 WLMi Laptop (AMD Turion 1,6GHz, 512MB DDR RAM) from text mode (no X running) I've tested a working django server with: httperf --server=localhost --port=8080 --uri=/test/ --num-conns=7000 --num-calls=1 --rate=X --timeout=4 Where X changed from 100 to 700 connections per second. As for django output it was a simple template with 5 variables from "view", one with a long string (whole page 15KB) Results: Errors: no errors when the rate is 100-400. For 500 conns/s I've got 24441 erros, for 600: 31758 and for 700: 34804 errors. Avg connection time (ms): 100: 5, 200: 1,8, 300: 1,9, 400: 1,9, 500: 227,3, 600: 350,5, 700: 513,8. Full logs: httperf --timeout=4 --client=0/1 --server=localhost --port=8080 --uri=/test/ --rate=100 --send-buffer=4096 --recv-buffer=16384 --num-conns=4 --num-calls=1 Maximum connect burst length: 1 Total: connections 4 requests 4 replies 4 test-duration 399.992 s Connection rate: 100.0 conn/s (10.0 ms/conn, <=51 concurrent connections) Connection time [ms]: min 1.8 avg 5.0 max 3003.3 median 1.5 stddev 95.1 Connection time [ms]: connect 3.0 Connection length [replies/conn]: 1.000 Request rate: 100.0 req/s (10.0 ms/req) Request size [B]: 65.0 Reply rate [replies/s]: min 99.8 avg 100.0 max 100.2 stddev 0.1 (80 samples) Reply time [ms]: response 1.9 transfer 0.0 Reply size [B]: header 142.0 content 15337.0 footer 0.0 (total 15479.0) Reply status: 1xx=0 2xx=4 3xx=0 4xx=0 5xx=0 CPU time [s]: user 45.18 system 284.57 (user 11.3% system 71.1% total 82.4%) Net I/O: 1518.0 KB/s (12.4*10^6 bps) Errors: total 0 client-timo 0 socket-timo 0 connrefused 0 connreset 0 Errors: fd-unavail 0 addrunavail 0 ftab-full 0 other 0 httperf --timeout=4 --client=0/1 --server=localhost --port=8080 --uri=/test/ --rate=200 --send-buffer=4096 --recv-buffer=16384 --num-conns=4 --num-calls=1 Maximum connect burst length: 2 Total: connections 4 requests 4 replies 4 test-duration 200.002 s Connection rate: 200.0 conn/s (5.0 ms/conn, <=4 concurrent connections) Connection time [ms]: min 1.8 avg 1.8 max 16.8 median 1.5 stddev 0.3 Connection time [ms]: connect 0.0 Connection length [replies/conn]: 1.000 Request rate: 200.0 req/s (5.0 ms/req) Request size [B]: 65.0 Reply rate [replies/s]: min 199.6 avg 200.0 max 200.4 stddev 0.2 (39 samples) Reply time [ms]: response 1.8 transfer 0.0 Reply size [B]: header 142.0 content 15337.0 footer 0.0 (total 15479.0) Reply status: 1xx=0 2xx=4 3xx=0 4xx=0 5xx=0 CPU time [s]: user 22.20 system 108.07 (user 11.1% system 54.0% total 65.1%) Net I/O: 3035.9 KB/s (24.9*10^6 bps) Errors: total 0 client-timo 0 socket-timo 0 connrefused 0 connreset 0 Errors: fd-unavail 0 addrunavail 0 ftab-full 0 other 0 httperf --timeout=4 --client=0/1 --server=localhost --port=8080 --uri=/test/ --rate=300 --send-buffer=4096 --recv-buffer=16384 --num-conns=4 --num-calls=1 Maximum connect burst length: 2 Total: connections 4 requests 4 replies 4 test-duration 133.333 s Connection rate: 300.0 conn/s (3.3 ms/conn, <=4 concurrent connections) Connection time [ms]: min 1.8 avg 1.9 max 12.4 median 1.5 stddev 0.5 Connection time [ms]: connect 0.0 Connection length [replies/conn]: 1.000 Request rate: 300.0 req/s (3.3 ms/req) Request size [B]: 65.0 Reply rate [replies/s]: min 299.8 avg 300.0 max 300.2 stddev 0.2 (26 samples) Reply time [ms]: response 1.8 transfer 0.0 Reply size [B]: header 142.0 content 15337.0 footer 0.0 (total 15479.0) Reply status: 1xx=0 2xx=4 3xx=0 4xx=0 5xx=0 CPU time [s]: user 10.80 system 53.12 (user 8.1% system 39.8% total 47.9%) Net I/O: 4553.9 KB/s (37.3*10^6 bps) Errors: total 0 client-timo 0 socket-timo 0 connrefused 0 connreset 0 Errors: fd-unavail 0 addrunavail 0 ftab-full 0 other 0 httperf --timeout=4 --client=0/1 --server=localhost --port=8080 --uri=/test/ --rate=400 --send-buffer=4096 --recv-buffer=16384 --num-conns=4 --num-calls=1 Maximum connect burst length: 4 Total: connections 4 requests 4 replies 4 test-duration 100.002 s Connection rate: 400.0 conn/s (2.5 ms/conn, <=11 concurrent connections) Connection time [ms]: min 1.8 avg 1.9 max 21.7 median 1.5 stddev 0.9 Connection time [ms]: connect 0.0 Connection length [replies/conn]: 1.000 Request rate: 400.0 req/s (2.5 ms/req) Request size [B]: 65.0 Reply rate [replies/s]: min 399.8 avg 400.0 max 400.2 stddev 0.2 (19 samples) Reply time [ms]: response 1.8 transfer 0.1 Reply size [B]: header 142.0 content 15337.0 footer 0.0 (total 15479.0) Reply status: 1xx=0 2xx=4 3xx=0 4xx=0 5xx=0 CPU time [s]: user 5.45 system 25.06 (user 5.4% system 25.1% total 30.5%) Net I/O: 6071.7 KB/s (49.7*10^6 bps) Errors: total 0
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
nice, very nice :) pylons and Turbogears benchmark would add a bit of flamish excitement to it... (and it would be quite interesting) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
Andy Dustman wrote: > On 7/14/06, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>On Jul 14, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: >> >>>Some folks benchmarked Symfony, Ruby on Rails and Django. Django was >>>the fastest. >> >>By over 30% -- hell yeah! >> >>Now, I've always known in my gut that Django's pretty damn fast, but >>seeing it verified by the RoR website... >> >>Priceless :) > > > And with MySQL, to boot. This is not surprising, it was a "many small hit" benchmark, and mysql has long outperformed PostGress in that department. I've also seen shootouts of python vs perl vs php for backending and mod_python just plain hauls ass. ;) Iain --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
On 7/14/06, Andy Dustman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And with MySQL, to boot. Nothing is perfect..xD -- SDM UnderlinuxGarimpar.com--PEP-8"Mais vale um ponteiro na mao do que duas classes voando" --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
On 7/14/06, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 14, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > > Some folks benchmarked Symfony, Ruby on Rails and Django. Django was > > the fastest. > > By over 30% -- hell yeah! > > Now, I've always known in my gut that Django's pretty damn fast, but > seeing it verified by the RoR website... > > Priceless :) And with MySQL, to boot. -- The Pythonic Principle: Python works the way it does because if it didn't, it wouldn't be Python. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
On 7/14/06, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 14, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > > Some folks benchmarked Symfony, Ruby on Rails and Django. Django was > > the fastest. > > By over 30% -- hell yeah! > That's awesome... congrats Django developers! -ian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
On Jul 14, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > Some folks benchmarked Symfony, Ruby on Rails and Django. Django was > the fastest. By over 30% -- hell yeah! Now, I've always known in my gut that Django's pretty damn fast, but seeing it verified by the RoR website... Priceless :) Jacob --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Django vs. Rails vs. Symfony: Django is fastest
Some folks benchmarked Symfony, Ruby on Rails and Django. Django was the fastest. Check it out here: http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/pages/Framework+Performance And don't forget to Digg and del.icio.us! http://digg.com/programming/Django_vs._Rails_vs._Symfony_Django_is_fastest http://del.icio.us/url/c44bdc6ac0cd2adfa4eb38af27b9f644 Adrian -- Adrian Holovaty holovaty.com | djangoproject.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On Thu, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:17:16PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There is only one Rails book that is in print at the moment(non pdf). > There are several others that are going to be released very soon > though. http://www.robsanheim.com/2006/03/23/ruby-and-ruby-on-rails-book-roundup/ is a blog showing something like 16 Ruby and Rails books out now or out "real soon now". Searching on Amazon for "ruby rails" gives quite a few books (I counted NINE Ruby on Rails books) due out within about the next six months -- who knows if they'll slip or not. Solid reliable up-to-date accurate complete documentation (without having to rely on reading through the code itself and/or code examples) is critical! To some, that means multiple books being available (not always worth anything, but some people just want to see books available on Amazon... period); to others, it doesn't matter if it's one book, half a dozen books, or downloadable files... so long as it IS available. -- Glenn --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On 4/13/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You have good friends, they are giving you great advice. Rails is in
> it's second production release, has a huge following, and a number of
> books to help document it. Django is still in a major development
> phase and is geared towards early adopters and framework developers at
> the moment.
Don't tell that to Scripps or to any of the other large, conservative
companies that are quietly deploying Django ;)
Seriously, though, I think this is a misconception. Rails has reached
a *public* 1.0, yes, but it was running in production environments
long before anyone outside of 37Signals knew about it. Similarly,
though Django hasn't reached a public 1.0 yet, it was running in
production environments long before anyone outside the newspaper
industry knew about it. What Django's going through right now is a
period of expansion and refinement, as people who are finally getting
a look at it come in with lots of smart ideas to make it even better.
> Many developers have opted to start there new projects
> with the newest unstable development branch ("Magic Removal"/.92) so
> they can reduce the pain of a .91 migration. This is fine, but you
> need to be prepared to change with it. I would recommend doing the
> Django tutorial, but would really think long and hard about starting a
> new project with it until .92 or later is released.
I'm not sure what we need to be "prepared to change with"; all the
major changes which will be made are and have been documented for
quite some time. Anyone starting out on magic-removal should know by
now exactly what to expect.
> This is nice if you are not used to dealing with SQL directly, but
> really isn't that advantageous if you are already using SQL on a
> regular basis. In fact, it does present some issues with an evolving
> schema. However many of those issues are being addressed with new
> tools like syncdb in the mysterious .92 release.
'manage.py syncdb' in magic-removal has nothing to do with evolving
database schemas.
> Ajax is a large pill to swallow, and Django is way behind Rails at the
> moment in that department.
That depends on your philosophy with respect to how AJAX should be used.
--
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
-- George Carlin
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Re: Django vs Rails
Glenn Tenney wrote:
> Several friends have been pushing me to look at Rails, so I've been reading
> through "Agile Web Development with Rails".
You have good friends, they are giving you great advice. Rails is in
it's second production release, has a huge following, and a number of
books to help document it. Django is still in a major development
phase and is geared towards early adopters and framework developers at
the moment. Many developers have opted to start there new projects
with the newest unstable development branch ("Magic Removal"/.92) so
they can reduce the pain of a .91 migration. This is fine, but you
need to be prepared to change with it. I would recommend doing the
Django tutorial, but would really think long and hard about starting a
new project with it until .92 or later is released.
> Some quick thoughts... with a couple of questions thrown in...
>
> 1. Ok, there IS the Ruby vs Python thing... I'll leave that to some
> *other* place for THAT flame fest as I do NOT want that here!
They are both good tools. You could fight back and forth but why :)
> 2. In Rails you need to declare your SQL code *and* tell Rails about
> your schema, but in Django it's all very nicely put into an object
> oriented description in your model. A big win, to me, for Django.
This is nice if you are not used to dealing with SQL directly, but
really isn't that advantageous if you are already using SQL on a
regular basis. In fact, it does present some issues with an evolving
schema. However many of those issues are being addressed with new
tools like syncdb in the mysterious .92 release.
> 3. Rails supports and integrates well with Ajax. I know that this is
> "coming" for Django... sometime "real soon now"... how's it going?
> When might it be out?
Ajax is a large pill to swallow, and Django is way behind Rails at the
moment in that department.
> 4. Rails has built-in unit and functional testing support. I don't
> know, but I'd venture a guess that few Rails apps actually USE the
> built-in testing capabilities, but it *IS* very nice... Is there
> anything like that planned for Django?
>
> 5. Rails has a book or two already out there -- and already out of
> sync with the version of Rails recently released. Django's book is
> "in the pipeline" but I doubt it'll be out until 0.92 gets released.
There is only one Rails book that is in print at the moment(non pdf).
There are several others that are going to be released very soon
though. It would be impossible to publish a meaningful book about
Django until .92 or > is out. There are MAJOR changes in .92, you
should read this: http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/RemovingTheMagic
if you haven't already.
> Any other major differences that I missed?
There are a number of differences, but you really need to test drive
both to get a better handle on them.
--Nick
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Re: Django vs Rails
tonemcd wrote: > That's a really good screencast - the Java-based frameworks come out > particularly badly (but the author is looking more at the rapid > applications development model, where multiple XML configs and > compiling certainly doesn't help matters) > > I was surprised at how well Zope (Plone actually) comes out of it. and i have the feeling that well... at the beginning Zope/Plone might seem perfect, but there are some shortcomings ...not really shortcomings, but different (from django) decisions that the zope creators made: - zodb. they are using an object database, which is a mixed blessing. - it's great because you can just store objects in it. there's no need to think in model-classes (simple classes). you just work with python objects, and they get persisted - on the other hand, zodb is quite a blackbox. with django, your data are in a relational database, where a table is a table is a table. there are several tools (gui ones and also command-line ones) to access a relational db, to back them up, to dump/restore them etc. for zodb there aren't that many. - the management "gui". (where he creates for example that python-script). it looks great, and it's great to play around with. but after some time problems start to arise: - your scripts are now in the zodb. so, how do you version-control them? - how will several developers work on the files? - how will you migrate the changes from the development-instances to the release-servers? - the usual answer to these questions on the forums is to not store your scripts in the zodb (you can also store them on the filesystem), and to not to rely on the gui stuff. but then what's the point of the gui? yes, i had to work for some time with zope, and right now i think i enjoy much more the "thin" approach that django chose. p.s: of course, i'm not bashing zope there. it's a different architecture, with different goals. and django's approach suits me better. that's all. gabor --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
tonemcd wrote: > I was surprised at how well Zope (Plone actually) comes out of it. I > guess he was using Archetypes to do the heavy lifting - I've found > plone to have a *very* steep learning curve. I think he used ArchGenXML. Archetypes are cool (they're a slightly higher abstraction/dsl than Rails or Django db mappings). In an alternate universe, where there's time to do these things, I'd port Archetypes/CMF onto Django. cheers Bill --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
Glenn Tenney think.org> writes: > > 2. In Rails you need to declare your SQL code *and* tell Rails about > your schema, but in Django it's all very nicely put into an object > oriented description in your model. A big win, to me, for Django. Rails has something called migrations (see http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/pages/UnderstandingMigrations). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
That's a really good screencast - the Java-based frameworks come out particularly badly (but the author is looking more at the rapid applications development model, where multiple XML configs and compiling certainly doesn't help matters) I was surprised at how well Zope (Plone actually) comes out of it. I guess he was using Archetypes to do the heavy lifting - I've found plone to have a *very* steep learning curve. Django comes out well, with the caveat that Simon mentions re: i18N. Recommended - it's 37" long though and 300+ megabytes... Cheers, Tone --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On 4/12/06, Jeremy Dunck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/12/06, Glenn Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 3. Rails supports and integrates well with Ajax. I know that this is > > "coming" for Django... sometime "real soon now"... how's it going? > > When might it be out? > > AFAIK, Rails tries to abstract away the generated JS, and in doing so > makes code that doesn't degrade well. I hope Django does better than > that. ... Sorry for the late and redundant response... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On 4/12/06, Glenn Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3. Rails supports and integrates well with Ajax. I know that this is > "coming" for Django... sometime "real soon now"... how's it going? > When might it be out? AFAIK, Rails tries to abstract away the generated JS, and in doing so makes code that doesn't degrade well. I hope Django does better than that. > 4. Rails has built-in unit and functional testing support. I don't > know, but I'd venture a guess that few Rails apps actually USE the > built-in testing capabilities, but it *IS* very nice... Is there > anything like that planned for Django? Most of core dj has doctests, but other than creating a rake driver script and scripts directory, I don't know enough about what Rails does. I only made it about halfway thru the Agile Rails book... > 5. Rails has a book or two already out there -- and already out of > sync with the version of Rails recently released. Django's book is > "in the pipeline" but I doubt it'll be out until 0.92 gets released. I may be overruled, but I doubt it'll be out much sooner than 1.0... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
It's a personal choice. Why not take a day and evaluate the contenders by writing a simple little app (voting/wiki/blog etc.) Find which one fits with you. Also think about how and where it will be deployed/hosted and how easy/possible that is with the system you choose. Personally: having written big web apps in PHP I vowed "never again" and tried RoR, TG, Plone and DG - for me DG feels right. I wouldn't read too much into the Ajax thing - I'm doing Ajax now just fine with DJ and Prototype. Also don't assume that because it looks easy in a screencast, it will be easy when you try it. You might like to checkout this video from JPL http://oodt.jpl.nasa.gov/wiki/display/oodt/Home - Click on "Better Web App Development" - ignore the bit about DJ not supporting i18N Cheers Simon --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On 4/12/06, Glenn Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3. Rails supports and integrates well with Ajax. I know that this is > "coming" for Django... sometime "real soon now"... how's it going? > When might it be out? I put in the patch for the initial Django/Dojo mashup (Dojo is the JavaScript toolkit we're going to ship with Django) just the other day, and I've had a tarball of a modified Dojo-enabled Django admin app up for a while. Note, however, that this is not "AJAX integration" in the sense that Rails has it; we'll be including Dojo in Django and offering the admin app as an example of how you can take advantage of it to build useful JavaScript functionality into your own applications. There's been talk of a generic Django web-service system which would make it much easier to do remote JavaScript calls (or programmatic calls from any language, really), and when that's built in there will undoubtedly be a JavaScript library included with Django which can take advantage of it, but I don't think the extreme level of "AJAX integration" in Rails is something that would feel right in Django. > 4. Rails has built-in unit and functional testing support. I don't > know, but I'd venture a guess that few Rails apps actually USE the > built-in testing capabilities, but it *IS* very nice... Is there > anything like that planned for Django? AFAIK Django ships unit tests for all of its own components. Writing tests for your own applications wouldn't be particularly hard, given the ease of testing in Python. > 5. Rails has a book or two already out there -- and already out of > sync with the version of Rails recently released. Django's book is > "in the pipeline" but I doubt it'll be out until 0.92 gets released. While I can't speak for the authors, I'd say it'll be a good long while after 0.92 is released when the book hits the shelves. -- "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -- George Carlin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Django vs Rails
On 4/12/06, Glenn Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 5. Rails has a book or two already out there -- and already out of > sync with the version of Rails recently released. Django's book is > "in the pipeline" but I doubt it'll be out until 0.92 gets released. Django 0.92 will *definitely* be out before the book comes out. Possibly Django 1.0 will be out before the book. Adrian -- Adrian Holovaty holovaty.com | djangoproject.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Django vs Rails
Several friends have been pushing me to look at Rails, so I've been reading through "Agile Web Development with Rails". Some quick thoughts... with a couple of questions thrown in... 1. Ok, there IS the Ruby vs Python thing... I'll leave that to some *other* place for THAT flame fest as I do NOT want that here! 2. In Rails you need to declare your SQL code *and* tell Rails about your schema, but in Django it's all very nicely put into an object oriented description in your model. A big win, to me, for Django. 3. Rails supports and integrates well with Ajax. I know that this is "coming" for Django... sometime "real soon now"... how's it going? When might it be out? 4. Rails has built-in unit and functional testing support. I don't know, but I'd venture a guess that few Rails apps actually USE the built-in testing capabilities, but it *IS* very nice... Is there anything like that planned for Django? 5. Rails has a book or two already out there -- and already out of sync with the version of Rails recently released. Django's book is "in the pipeline" but I doubt it'll be out until 0.92 gets released. Any other major differences that I missed? -- Glenn --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Reminder - Django and Rails meetup in London, September 5th
Hi all, Just a quick reminder, but on the 5th of september we're having a Rails & Django meetup in London - the more the merrier! More details: http://www.magpiebrain.com/archives/2005/08/17/meetup -- sam http://www.magpiebrain.com/
