Re: [DNG] Cannot install Samba on Jessie
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:23:02 +0100, Rowland wrote in message <578f7b36.8030...@gmail.com>: > On 20/07/16 14:10, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:15:27 +0100, Rowland wrote in message > > <578f5d4f.2020...@gmail.com>: > > > >> On 20/07/16 12:11, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > >>> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:48:20 +1200, Daniel wrote in message > >>> <578f56f4.6060...@centurion.net.nz>: > >>> > >>>> Hi Rowland, > >>>> > >>>> We have a bug in amprolla that prevents all parts of the 4.2 > >>>> version from being available so the install fails. > >>>> > >>>> Add Debians jessie security repo temporarily to your sources.list > >>>> to get around the issue. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Daniel. > >>> ..as these conventions come and go these days, can you imagine > >>> Hillary giving the Donald, or Putin etc similar access to her > >>> email servers? ;oD Even temporarily? ;oD > >>> > >> Why bother posting a reply that had absolutely nothing to do with > >> the subject ? > > ..3 reasons, Devuan is much too naïve about our origin, > > Debian/systemd banana republic politics, Devuan is still much too > > naïve about relying on Debian resources such as security etc > > repositories, and AFAICT we still rely on the naïve assumption the > > Debian/systemd guys will be nice and carry on calling libsystemd0 > > libsystemd0 and not hide it somewhere else to sink us. > > > > ..the fact that things works temporarily, > > is precisely that, a temporary fact. > > > > I am beginning to think you are a troll. ..I'm perfectly happy with whatever you're thinking, as long as you carry on thinking, and act upon your beliefs, you are not going to be able to act on perfect knowledge until well after this systemd etc affair is over, regardless of who wins. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Grml] Is grml still alive
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:18:53 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20160720151853.6a52c...@nb6.lan>: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:09:14 +0200, Alexander wrote in message > <20160720120914.gc25...@smithers.snow-crash.org>: > > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > > > ..looks like Grml is a loss: http://bts.grml.org/grml/issue1568 > > > Pity. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alternatives+to+udev=web > > > > > > ..systemd, udev etc pötterication has no more tech etc merit than > > > e.g. Erdogan's ban on Turk academics going on e.g. vacation > > > abroad. > > > > > > > Please don't Cc our mailinglist again. > > ..from which mailing list am I now being banished? ;o) > I am aware I am not welcome on Debian mailing lists due to my > knowledge of banana republic politics and how they brought systemd > upon Debian, and therefore didn't cc any Debian mailing lists. ;o) > ..it appears Alexander Wirt <formo...@formorer.de> (alias Alexander Wirt <debian-backpo...@lists.debian.org>?) meant the grml mailing list. Oh well. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cannot install Samba on Jessie
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:15:27 +0100, Rowland wrote in message <578f5d4f.2020...@gmail.com>: > On 20/07/16 12:11, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:48:20 +1200, Daniel wrote in message > > <578f56f4.6060...@centurion.net.nz>: > > > >> Hi Rowland, > >> > >> We have a bug in amprolla that prevents all parts of the 4.2 > >> version from being available so the install fails. > >> > >> Add Debians jessie security repo temporarily to your sources.list > >> to get around the issue. > >> > >> Regards, > >>Daniel. > > ..as these conventions come and go these days, can you imagine > > Hillary giving the Donald, or Putin etc similar access to her > > email servers? ;oD Even temporarily? ;oD > > > > Why bother posting a reply that had absolutely nothing to do with the > subject ? ..3 reasons, Devuan is much too naïve about our origin, Debian/systemd banana republic politics, Devuan is still much too naïve about relying on Debian resources such as security etc repositories, and AFAICT we still rely on the naïve assumption the Debian/systemd guys will be nice and carry on calling libsystemd0 libsystemd0 and not hide it somewhere else to sink us. ..the fact that things works temporarily, is precisely that, a temporary fact. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Grml] Is grml still alive
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:09:14 +0200, Alexander wrote in message <20160720120914.gc25...@smithers.snow-crash.org>: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:25:39 +0200, Klaus wrote in message > > <33d1c1ed-16ae-e76a-9086-e770b0d99...@arcor.de>: > > > > > > > > Michael Prokop schrieb am 19.07.2016 um 23:22: > > > > * Klaus Fuerstberger [Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 09:41:01AM +0200]: > > > > > > > >> as I could not post a blog comment at > > > >> http://blog.grml.org/archives/394-Is-Grml-still-alive.html I > > > >> want to leave a comment to this article here. > > > > > > > >> Many thanks for grml all over the years. Please keep on > > > >> providing new releases without systemd packages. There is no > > > >> need for this bloated piece of software for a text based > > > >> distribution for system admins. Maybe you can base grml on > > > >> devuan, a systemd-free, debian-based distribution in the > > > >> future? https://devuan.org/ I am sure that you will get help > > > >> there if there are any questions. > > > > > > > > JFTR, we definitely plan to ship Grml *with* systemd, because > > > > that is the way to go for us and also gives people remastering > > > > Grml even more flexibility WRT service startups, independent > > > > from our default configuration. > > > > > > You made Grml for people to be flexible in remastering it? I think > > > Grml was, and is complete as it is. If I want to add a daemon at > > > startup I need no systemd to successful remastering Grml. But of > > > course it is your decision. > > > > > > > If you're interested in a Grml flavor *without* systemd you're > > > > invited to work on that, you might be also interested in > > > > picking up file-rc as upstream respectively package maintainer > > > > (file-rc being the init system we relied on so far and where no > > > > maintainer seems to be present anymore, esp. once both Alex and > > > > me will orphan it). > > > > > > Thanks for the invitation to maintain Grml with sysvinit. But I > > > will not have the time to maintain such a big change alone. But > > > as grml is also listed in > > > http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#GNU.2FLinux_distributions > > > I send a copy of this post to the devuan mailing list. Maybe there > > > will be someone who is using Grml and interested to keep this > > > systemd free. > > > > ..looks like Grml is a loss: http://bts.grml.org/grml/issue1568 > > Pity. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alternatives+to+udev=web > > > > ..systemd, udev etc pötterication has no more tech etc merit than > > e.g. Erdogan's ban on Turk academics going on e.g. vacation abroad. > > > > Please don't Cc our mailinglist again. ..from which mailing list am I now being banished? ;o) I am aware I am not welcome on Debian mailing lists due to my knowledge of banana republic politics and how they brought systemd upon Debian, and therefore didn't cc any Debian mailing lists. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:33:43 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20160711123343.5c936...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:00:02 +0200 > <emnin...@riseup.net> wrote: > > > Am Sun, 10 Jul 2016 08:47:57 + > > schrieb Joel Roth <jo...@pobox.com>: > > > > > What's your experience with slackware and its > > > dependency/packaging system? > > > > Generally, i like it. It has way less dependencies compared to > > debian. And in the end it's quite well manageable. > > I don't use Slackware because their package manager won't figure out > dependencies for me, causing me to need 10x the time to install some > things (and I install a lot of stuff --- did I ever mention I write > books for a living?). ..so which do you prefer, Slackware wee mess, or being at the mercy of Poettering & Co? > On the other hand, a lot of people I respect (including emninger) love > Slackware specifically because it leaves figuring dependencies to the > user, leading to a relatively dependency-lean environment. ..aye, means you will have to do a _predictable_ wee bit more. ..can we (Devuan) lean on Slackware and alien conversion, at least as a backup plan B to the potential Debian trap? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..rubber duck party convention, was: Larcenous mail threads.
On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:16:03 +0200, Edward wrote in message
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Tue, 5 Jul 2016 11:23:23 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message <577b7c8b.2070...@gr13.net>: > On 20.02.2016 01:02, aitor_czr wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Did you watch the following video? > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKGXQnxIvE=PLV5TRjrpiwATav0Dlhd_GRjc2ZRuV26kR > > yeah, that incident of Lennart's hate speech is pretty well known > (at least over here in Germany). > > actually, I already used that to convince some of my clients of > dropping lennartware ... ...pulseaudio too? "Tell us all about the new shiny optional pulseaudio-module-udev, where is the udev thing coming from?": arnt@celsius:~$ apt-cache show pulseaudio-module-udev Package: pulseaudio-module-udev Source: pulseaudio Version: 9.0-1 Installed-Size: 89 Maintainer: Pulseaudio maintenance team <pkg-pulseaudio-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org> Architecture: amd64 Replaces: pulseaudio (<< 8.0-3) Depends: libc6 (>= 2.9), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libpulse0 (= 9.0-1), libudev1 (>= 183), pulseaudio (= 9.0-1), udev (>= 143) Breaks: pulseaudio (<< 8.0-3) Description: Udev module for PulseAudio sound server Description-md5: 7bcdfa4113bce6fa1b06b6ffdd138ea0 Homepage: http://www.pulseaudio.org Section: sound Priority: optional Filename: pool/DEBIAN/main/p/pulseaudio/pulseaudio-module-udev_9.0-1_amd64.deb Size: 36848 MD5sum: f670dad24330545e9c26b140b05135bf SHA256: 1bf91d8b27ef9f9fcb67193b9de40958e70214a2dbc5c25e8f719a10de4370b2 arnt@celsius:~$ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:27:24 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20160708122724.51ece...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:34:27 +0900 > Simon Walter <si...@gikaku.com> wrote: > > > Absolutely. Lennart's attitude of "it's free, so don't complain" > > I'm going to go to the lake nearest Lennart's house, and dump a ton of > mercury into it. When he complains, I'll say "it's free, so don't > complain". ..sadly, that would make you a criminal. I'd rather see you pipe water into his home from Flint, Michigan under trade deals like the TPP. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:34:27 +0900, Simon wrote in message <577f5783.8050...@gikaku.com>: > On 07/08/2016 09:23 AM, Hughe Chung wrote: > > > > Who was the organizer of the conference? How they allowed frequent > > interruption by the idiot during the presentation? > > > > It was a real video footage. A drunken idiot went to the stage at > > the end of presentation carrying a bear bottle on one hand. > > > > I posted the video link to other FOSS forum. > > > > Action outweighs thousands words of the person. The time will tell > > how much damage would systemd cause on FOSS ecosphere overall. Empty > > promises of systemd. > > Absolutely. Lennart's attitude of "it's free, so don't complain" and > "no one is forcing you to use it" is deceptive. If I make a > calculator and release it under an open source license, I might be > able to use that line. You can't have that attitude when you are > making (what should be) inter-operable components of an operating > system. He continually commits logical fallacies and says "You should > know..." He seems very snobby. The beer part was over the top. They > should have never given him a microphone. He's obviously a bully and > therefore insecure. He has something to prove. > > This is why I am horrified. The Debian Technical Committee let > themselves be bullied and by doing so have proven that they cannot be > trusted to protect our freedom. You would think that Michael Tiemann > would speak out, but I guess he has to be careful with his meal > ticket. Shall we make a web site that documents sellouts in the tech > industry? I think "name and shame" is appropriate with this level of > depravity. If we can't trust them, word should get out the their > opinions are bought. > > That is my free opinion ;) ..this clearly is where we could have used a http://groklaw.net/ style website. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 19:50:14 +1200, Daniel wrote in message <57a6e836.4040...@centurion.net.nz>: > > > We all miss Jude and a decisive contribution from his part to > > have a running Vdev on Devuan. It's more than 2 years since the > > inception of Vdev and more than one year since Jude has "almost > > finished" it. Yet we haven't a replacement for Udev, while it is > > more and more integrated to systemd. I see this as a major threat. > > I'm deceived that Skarnet hasn't written their own, because it's > > more critical than a supervisor. > > > > Surprisingly the last update on Jude's github project for vdev is 23rd > April 2016, only a couple of month's ago. See: > https://github.com/jcnelson/vdev/commits/master > > So it's not that long ago... > > I guess what we need is to get a working package in Devuan to attract > his attention back. ..by "working", we should mean flawless packaging and easy bug reporting so the vdev developers get feedback from people trying the packages so they get help finding the bugs. ..with no feedback, he can justify the "no interest" conclusion. ..which proves the current "git clone -> .configure -> make -> make install" route unworkable, at the very least we need a way to make our omn vdev .dev package from our own git trees. > Once I've got completed a couple of key items we need to get on the > road to a final release for Devuan, I'll look at the state of various > packaging attempts for vdev and work towards an official devuan > package. > > D > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Kali Linux 0003165]: Find a way to disable most services by default with systemd
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 12:05:51 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20160712110551.gt18...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:49:13PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > ..nowadays I see Devuan falling apart exactly because Debian > > is falling apart, for details, run: ' how-can-i-help '. > > > > > Sorry but I have to disagree on "Devuan falling apart", since it seems > an unsupported statement :) Devuan is progressing, and it is > misleading to believe that the only way of "progressing" is by > releasing a nbew distro every six months. ..regardless of whether you build Devuan on top of Debian, or build roads for Armegruppe Rendulic, under budget, and ahead of schedule to Organisation Todt standards across frozen lakes, or play world class wonderfully soothing music aboard the S/S Titanic, you _are_ going down, exactly because the very foundation you build your fine work of art upon, is going down. ..we need to float free from Debian. And we need vdev etc native Devuan code packaged for all Devuan releases, not just Jessie. The core bits. The eye candy can wait. > That is better called "putting debug on the shoulders of the poor > users". ..agreed. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] C Obfuscated code: a virtue or a vice?
On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:12:26 +0200, Jaromil wrote in message <20160715091226.GA27441@reflex>: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016, Peter Olson wrote: > > > You misunderstand what the IOCCC is about. It's a game. Nobody > > trying to write useful code will do anything like what IOCCC writes. > > well, I even argue is software-art :^) back 15 years ago I facilitated > the inclusion of some IOCCC entries in this exibition originally shown > at the MAK in Frankfurt, which then went pretty much around the world > http://www.digitalcraft.org/iloveyou/c_code.htm > > but yes, its definitely not polite nor useful to obfuscate code that > people uses. to the contrary, I think literate programming is the way ..the only useful part of playing around with obfuscated code, is learning to recognise attacks etc from the systemd boys. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Kali Linux 0003165]: Find a way to disable most services by default with systemd
On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 15:33:58 +0200, Jaromil wrote in message <20160713133358.GA22089@reflex>: > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, dev wrote: > > > tasks. Why these devs do these things is beyond reason. > > the main reason is that they are lazy and cannot bother to work their > way against the trend. you said it after all: they just curate > collections of other people's software and often get more credit and > donations for that, as some curators do in place of artists... > > and you missed to mention Tails by the way. They are overly advertised > as the secure privacy distro to use, yet they have moved into systemd > without posing even a question about it. ..not to mention qubes-os... ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:44:01 +0200, Jaromil wrote in message <20160712114401.GA27051@reflex>: > On Fri, 08 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > ..this clearly is where we could have used a http://groklaw.net/ > > style website. > > Groklaw was great not because of the website, but because of the > editorial work PJ put into it and because of the community it > gathered. the infrastructure can be minimal, is the people that > counts, IMHO ..thank you, I was only a tiny wee part of this city-size community. :o) > said that, as much as I'd like some more exposure for the dangers that > systemd is creating for many ICT practitioners, I would also like to > stop bashing an individual whose social and technical limits are very > evident to the point he cannot be the only cause of this avalanche. ..aye, if this is PJ, Edward Snowdon, Chelsea Manning or somebody with that kinda quality spine, I'm going back to systemd Debian. Now, if you wanna try convince me that kinda spine is behind systemd, beware that your energy etc resources would be better spent fixing the climate first, the global climate is _much_ easier to fix than my "belief" on systemd. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] libvirt - can't create snapshot
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 07:37:54 +1000, Ralph wrote in message <5d50b9d2-8420-138b-525f-b19ab51f8...@gmail.com>: > In my experience, there's no need to be root for creating and running > libvirt VM's. I needed to be root only to set up the VDE host-only > network for them to attach to, and then all else can be done non-root. > > Ralph. ..could this be the SystemD guys targetting https://www.qubes-os.org/? > On 08/08/16 04:52, Paweł Cholewiński wrote: > > W dniu 07.08.2016 o 16:46, Ralph Ronnquist pisze: > >> On 08/08/16 00:37, Paweł Cholewiński wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I test devuan with libvirt (Virtual Machine Manager 0.9.1) on > >>> Debian 7.11. I would like to create snapshot but when I type as > >>> root: 1) "virsh snapshot-create-as --domain devuan_jessie --name > >>> snapshot1 --description "clear system" > >>> error: failed to get domain 'devuan_jessie' > >>> error: An error occurred, but the cause is unknown". > >>> > >>> 2) "virsh list --all" > >>> command return empty list. > >>> > >>> > >>> Has anyone had this problem before? > >> > >> Only when the machine(s) were created as non-root. > >> > >> Ralph. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 10:45:43 +0200, Didier wrote in message <57932eb7.6080...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 22/07/2016 23:33, Rick Moen a écrit : > > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > >> ..bytt ut "inn" med "på", rett oversatt skal dette være: > >> "Jeg kan også skrive på mitt tredje språk." ;o) > > I'm learning, though, and I thank you. ;-> > > > > Hope you won't spend as much of the bandwidth with e-learning > Norwegian as others did with e-learning C :-) ..worried about cultural imperialism, freedom language speaker? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:24:29 -0700, Rick wrote in message
<20160722052429.gn30...@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
>
> > With a French keyboard, I can write in en-UK or en-US, and it is
> > also much more convenient when writing in fr-FR.
>
> Vraiment? C'est intéressant. ('Truly? This is interesting.')
> I must confess ignorance. FWIW, usually in my experience, the main
> disadvantage of US keyboards is lack of a Euro-symbol key, but there
> are easy workarounds.
>
> Jeg kan også skrive inn mitt tredje språk. (I can also write my third
> language.)
..bytt ut "inn" med "på", rett oversatt skal dette være:
"Jeg kan også skrive på mitt tredje språk." ;o)
> > I just prefer a US keyboard for writing programs because the
> > layout has been hardcoded in my fingers by almost 40 years of
> > programming and I find it definitely more convenient for that task.
>
> Would it help if I apologise pour l'impérialisme américain? ;->
>
> (Je crains que nous ne parlons pas de Devuan. Nous devrions parler
> des questions techniques, mais il est agréable à utiliser la belle
> langue.)
>
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
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Re: [DNG] Mirroring Devuan
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:42:53 +0200, aitor_czr wrote in message <5791ce7d.5000...@gnuinos.org>: > > Hi Arnt, > > On 07/21/2016 01:51 PM, Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no> wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:35:18 +0200, aitor_czr wrote in message > > <5790a566.5080...@gnuinos.org>: > >> >Hi all, > >> > > >> >For those people working on live-build: > >> > > >> >I'll explain how to generate the /pool and the /dists trees, > >> >containing all the packages, sources, Contents.gz, etc... But > >> >first of all i want to do the following clarification: generating > >> >the *Contents* takes TOO long. > > ..aye. That's why I asked: > > https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 > > and how to convert my LAN Debian mirror into a Devuan mirror. > > > > Thanks, i'll begin using talk.devuan.org for these stuffs :) ..I never got a response there, so I quit using that, I found the mail list far more useful. > And the IRC Canal... (i read it time to time) ..last time I touched IRC was in the early 1990-ies, I found it fairly useless, email is far more useful IME, helps pack far more thought into your typing. ..if you need IRC-style immediate responses, agree to run fetchmail every minute. > >> >I contacted "Bernhard R. Link" weeks ago referring to this issue, > >> >and the author of reprepro kindly answered a few days after: > >> > > >> > > >> >[...] Given how opaque the format is there is little chance that > >> >reprepro will ever support that format completely. (Writing > >> >maintainable code to extract the Section and Priority for a source > >> >package for example seems to be quite a show stopper there for > >> >example). > >> > > >> >Though reprepro could gain some incomplete support for it. (I > >> >guess there is some chance reprepro should already support > >> >retrieving packages from other repositories in this format. > >> >Adding such packages locally is likely not yet possible (though I > >> >guess one would have to try to be sure)). > >> > > >> >But as this format is experimental and mostly abandoned for some > >> >time it is not that high on my priority list > > ..no big deal, we can e.g. adapt Francesco's > > download_and_compile.sh and put them in vm build hosts. > > I just found it: > > https://github.com/rshk/FlightGearBuildScripts/blob/master/download_and_compile.sh > > http://wiki.flightgear.org/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu > > Thanks :) > >Aitor. > > > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] policykit - another time ...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 17:30:30 +0200, Didier wrote in message <57768c96.8070...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 01/07/2016 16:59, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult a écrit : > > what I never really actually understood: what do we really need it > > for ? what's the real-world problem behind to be solved ? > > The real problem behind was to replace sudo by something more > complicated, for the sake of complication. sudo allows simple things > to be done with simple config and complicated things with complicated > config. Policykit is better: all is complicated, the config and the > machinery to handle it, which is a tangle of daemons, sockets and, of > course, dbus and possibly systemd, obviously for the sake of > entangling it as much as possible. Plus it replaces a single and > simple command by a whole library. > > Replacing a simple system with a complicated one, may be an > amusing game, but should remain a game. > > I expected most of the requests would be done by applications by > just invoking pkexec, which is a kind of replacement for sudo, but it > is only true for some launchers, like the one of Synaptic (I have > written my own replcement for pkexec and it works). But Policykit > comes with several commands and I'm afraid Xfce4 applets, for > example, make calls to the polkit library rather than invoke these > commands. > > Therefore, IMHO, we are left with two options: either elaborate > a polkit-shim or discard applications which use it. > > Didier ..is there no --without-policykit switch we can use to recompile? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Browsers
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:31:08 -0500, Steve wrote in message <20170225203108.2838a...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:34:50 -0500 > Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > > And speaking of bookmarks, each browser seems to jealously hang on > > to its bookmarks, unless perhaps another browser manages to sneak in > > like a thief and import them. Is this the way browsers cement their > > grip on users? Isn't there any way of setting up bookmarks > > so that multiple browsers and other tools can use them? > > Yes. > > Using a very simple tab-indented outline that I maintain with > VimOutliner adorned Vim, plus a conversion app, I have hundreds of > bookmarks, organized just the way I want them. If I want to change the > organization, I do some cutting and pasting on my outline and > recompile. Every browser I use has a link called "littlinks", and > clicking it brings up my link hierarchy. In the past I've even tweaked > my desktop's Apache so any computer within the house could pull up my > links page at http://192.168.100.2/littlinks. On any browser, > including elinks. > > I did this for the exact reason you state: To keep my bookmarks from > being held hostage by particular software. > > If a lot of you want this, I'll slap a free software license on it and > release it. ..make it GPLv2, v3 is too kind on violators. ;o) > SteveT > > Steve Litt > February 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] tor and systemd?
On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 08:22:09 -1000, Joel wrote in message <20160901182209.GA10579@sprite>: > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > ..to the Tor people: systemd made its way into Debian on banana > > republic politics, not on tech merit. Devuan tries to become a > > non-systemd fork, and not a death trap to the next Ed Snowdon. > > > > ..since I didn't subscribe to your mail lists, I'm totally fine > > with you guys rejecting my post there, just kick libsystemd0 off > > any Tor packages until Edward Snowdon tells me in person here in > > Norway, he is the man behind SystemD. > > According to wikipedia, the Tor Project is seeking to become > more user friendly. Does that mean systemd? ..my _guess_ is systemd is a way to subvert Tor et al by taking over userspace and isolating it from kernelspace. I also guess it is still in development, and I spent an ignorant coupla years with systemd before finding out not only I, bot also people like Theodore Tso had problems we could not solve without giving up on system security. ..initially it was touted as a new and better init than sysvinit (which does suck but remains workable) and has since swallowed networking, ntp, disk etc hardware control, effectively denying me access to e.g. my keyboard when a web browser hangs itself. ..the _only_ merit I can see in systemd is if it is meant as a back-up to Tor to keep our next few thousand Ed Snowdons, safe. > > In December 2015, The Tor Project announced that it had > hired Shari Steele as its new executive director.[37] Steele > had previously led the Electronic Frontier Foundation for 15 > years, and in 2004 spearheaded EFF's decision to fund Tor's > early development. One of her key stated aims is to make Tor > more user-friendly in order to bring wider access to > anonymous web browsing.[38] > > In July 2016 the complete board of the Tor Project resigned, > and announced a new board, made up of Matt Blaze, Cindy > Cohn, Gabriella Coleman, Linus Nordberg, Megan Price and > Bruce Schneier. > > I recognize some of these names as greats in security > and cryptography. ..are these people who believe in Benjamin Franklin's wisdom on essential Liberty, temporary Safety, and on Deserving Neither? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] tor and systemd?
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 09:12:49 +0800, Brad wrote in message <acf8e2a4-ae9e-deec-2d75-b4b4c5ad2...@fnarfbargle.com>: > On 02/09/16 00:20, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > ..we honk that nice big red "No-Shit???" horn now? ;o) > > https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#Backdoor > > > > ..to the Tor people: systemd made its way into Debian on banana > > republic politics, not on tech merit. Devuan tries to become a > > non-systemd fork, and not a death trap to the next Ed Snowdon. > > > > ..since I didn't subscribe to your mail lists, I'm totally fine > > with you guys rejecting my post there, just kick libsystemd0 off > > any Tor packages until Edward Snowdon tells me in person here in > > Norway, he is the man behind SystemD. > > > Please tell me you didn't send that to the tor list. ..I did not register there, and they rejected my post "attempts" there, precisely the way I wanted them to, the idea is make them aware in case they weren't. > For the love of all that is holy stop trying to make the Devuan > project look like tinfoil-hat doomsday preppers. ..with Trump and Hillary running for President? ;oD ..we have Putin "next door" and our _Blond_Regime_ is _still_ cutting Norw. defense down by US$2Billion, budget year 2017. We have _no_ anti-aircraft nor anti-missile defense other than human shields like in Aleppo, Syria since 1994, and the _only_ way I see Hillary escape jail time, is WWIII. > If you don't like tor pulling in systemd, then *fix* it. Don't go > hysterically screaming about the sky falling and dropping names like > "Edward Snowd*e*n" without good reason. ..has Ed, or Tor people had time to learn about how systemd _can_ subvert Tor? I haven't, post-Groklaw litigation. > If you are going to drop > names, spell them correctly. Not doing so makes you look even more of > a ranting lunatic. ..damn, apologies. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] tor and systemd?
On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 16:40:24 +0200, shraptor wrote in message <214c35309d95158798629c1cd4a2c...@epost.bahnhof.se>: > On 2016-09-01 15:51, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 02:28:04PM +0200, shraptor wrote: > >> > >> Official tor builds will pull in libsystemd0 > > > > How official? upstream's? or Debian's? > > The ones from tor: > > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org jessie main ..are you able to build working .deb without libsystemd0 or any other SystemD code? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] tor and systemd?
On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 16:40:24 +0200, shraptor wrote in message <214c35309d95158798629c1cd4a2c...@epost.bahnhof.se>: > On 2016-09-01 15:51, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 02:28:04PM +0200, shraptor wrote: > >> > >> Official tor builds will pull in libsystemd0 ..how??? ..from where??? ..are you building off the git or svn tree? > > How official? upstream's? or Debian's? > > The ones from tor: > > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org jessie main ..a Debian packager? I played around a bit but I don't see it here: https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/log/?qt=grep=libsystemd0 ..we honk that nice big red "No-Shit???" horn now? ;o) https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#Backdoor ..to the Tor people: systemd made its way into Debian on banana republic politics, not on tech merit. Devuan tries to become a non-systemd fork, and not a death trap to the next Ed Snowdon. ..since I didn't subscribe to your mail lists, I'm totally fine with you guys rejecting my post there, just kick libsystemd0 off any Tor packages until Edward Snowdon tells me in person here in Norway, he is the man behind SystemD. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..yes, bad-news-in-tor, was: tor and systemd?
On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 18:20:32 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20160901182032.42f39...@nb6.lan>: > On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 16:40:24 +0200, shraptor wrote in message > <214c35309d95158798629c1cd4a2c...@epost.bahnhof.se>: > > > On 2016-09-01 15:51, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 02:28:04PM +0200, shraptor wrote: > > >> > > >> Official tor builds will pull in libsystemd0 > > ..how??? > > ..from where??? > > ..are you building off the git or svn tree? > > > > How official? upstream's? or Debian's? > > > > The ones from tor: > > > > deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org jessie main > > ..a Debian packager? > I played around a bit but I don't see it here: > https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/log/?qt=grep=libsystemd0 > > > ..we honk that nice big red "No-Shit???" horn now? ;o) > https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#Backdoor > > ..to the Tor people: systemd made its way into Debian on banana > republic politics, not on tech merit. Devuan tries to become a > non-systemd fork, and not a death trap to the next Ed Snowdon. > > ..since I didn't subscribe to your mail lists, I'm totally fine > with you guys rejecting my post there, just kick libsystemd0 off > any Tor packages until Edward Snowdon tells me in person here in > Norway, he is the man behind SystemD. > > ..bad news attached: arnt@celsius:~$ git clone https://git.torproject.org/git/tor Cloning into 'tor'... remote: Counting objects: 165301, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (38536/38536), done. remote: Total 165301 (delta 131244), reused 159247 (delta 126417) Receiving objects: 100% (165301/165301), 37.33 MiB | 513.00 KiB/s, done. Resolving deltas: 100% (131244/131244), done. Checking connectivity... done. arnt@celsius:~$ grep -r 'systemd' tor ... arnt@celsius:~$ grep -C2 -r 'systemd' tor >bad-news-in-tor arnt@celsius:~$ ll bad-news-in-tor & bad-news-in-tor -rw-r--r-- 1 arnt arnt 17248 Sep 1 18:29 bad-news-in-tor 5fc1e10e0f10a3e75ca57c184595c8f5 bad-news-in-tor arnt@celsius:~$ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. bad-news-in-tor Description: Binary data ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Kernel error requesting UEFI upgrade.
On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 16:53:22 +0200, Edward wrote in message
Re: [DNG] devuan-discuss is not useful, quite the opposite
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:14:39 +0100, Giovanni wrote in message <5be642ae-c983-3ee3-db68-be1e7657a...@ideanet.be>: > On 06/11/16 15:20, KatolaZ wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 02:59:13PM +0100, Giovanni Rapagnani wrote: > >> Based on the MLs description on [2], devuan-discuss is the primary > >> ML for requesting help and discuss about Devuan. That is wrong! > >> The fact is that DNG is the primary ML for such things. > >> > >> devuan-discuss is not useful and causing troubles: newcomers don't > >> get help; community is splits into 2 groups; ML activity gives a > >> bad perception about Devuan project activity. > > > > Sorry, but I don't get your point. The request you are talking about > > was posted to devuan-discuss after 21:00 (CEST) on Saturday 5th > > November. It is now Sunday 6th November, 14:16 CEST, so 17 long > > (weekend) hours have passed since that email appeared on > > devuan-discuss. Believe it or not, people might actually have > > something better (or simply different) to do during the week-end > > than waiting in front of their email client to address problems > > found by other users. > > That was an example. The same issue posted here received an answer > after less than 20 minutes, ..that's what we call Stupid Luck. The next step is "when" 170 million voters write in Bernie Sanders for POTUŜ and Jill Stein for VP on Tuesday... ..even if you win US $170 billion, you are still stuck on this planet. > with at least a temporary solution > within, while neither a solution nor a feedback was given on > devuan-discuss yet. > > DNG ML is a better place than devuan-discuss to get help, get > feedback and gauge Devuan project activity. The website does tell > another story. If people gauge Devuan project activity and community > based on their interaction with devuan-discuss, they will probably be > disappointed. I think it is harmful when it comes to attract more > people inside the community. That is my point. > > Giovanni -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Why does systemd do such stupid things
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 16:15:54 +, Rowland wrote in message <20161106161554.5a930...@devstation.samdom.example.com>: > > One of my servers crashed because of a motherboard problem, but, as > luck had it, there was something on the HD I was working on and I > hadn't fully backed up. > > I stuck another motherboard in and started up the machine again, up it > came, after fsck'ing the HD and everything worked, apart from the > network. Checked lspci etc and as far as I could see, there was > nothing wrong, but I just couldn't get eth0 to work (did I say there > was only 1 network card?) > > Finally, in desperation, I ran 'dmesg | grep eth0' and found my > problem: > > root@server:~# dmesg | grep eth0 > [0.921998] r8169 :02:00.0 eth0: RTL8168b/8111b at > 0xc9006000, 00:1d:60:fc:29:e6, XID 1800 IRQ 41 > [0.922001] r8169 :02:00.0 eth0: jumbo features [frames: 4080 > bytes, tx checksumming: ko] [7.620169] systemd-udevd[362]: > renamed network interface eth0 to eth1 > > Why, oh why, did systemd-udevd rename eth0 to eth1 > > Rowland ..to try scare our banks away from using systemd? (Since we depend on stupid luck anyway...) ..is systemd used in ballot machines? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Workrave is not installable in ceres
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 08:16:08 +0200, Edward wrote in message <cakenem4db3taeys37ss6fe-o+jtgg+qw9+us09pyuc3+3kb...@mail.gmail.com>: > HI, > > An important piece of information is 'how did you install Devuan > Ceres?'. If you upgraded from one major version to the next, be aware > certain packages may need to be upgraded before the final > dist-upgrading. I am using Devuan ASCII which I upgraded from Devuan > Jessie. > > The procedure: > 1) Changed /etc/apt/sources.list to point to ASCII instead of Jessie > and run 'apt-get update'. ..does this make aptitude point itself to our changelog site rather than Debian's http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs ? ..where _is_ our changelog site? > 2) Upgraded kernel, dpkg, apt, aptitude with all packages that were > pulled in the upgrade. > 3) Rebooted > 4) Run the final 'apt-get dist-upgrade'. That installed a long list > of packages. > 5) Rebooted again to test the newly upgraded system. > > Edward > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB bootable ISO for i386
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 10:36:34 +0200, Adam wrote in message <20161017083634.ga8...@angband.pl>: > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 08:58:28AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:05:54AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote: > > > I've introduced Devuan to a friend who is not (yet) an > > > accomplished Linux geek, but he's been learning very fast. He's > > > not real well-off financially, so his two computers are old i386 > > > laptops donated by friends. > > > > > > devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_i386_CD.iso > > > > which CPU is that old laptop you are trying to boot from? AFAIK > > Devuan/Debian is compiled for i686, which means it would require at > > least a Pentium Pro/Pentium III. > > That's unstable; for jessie the minimum requirement for i386 is 586. ..if _all_ else fails, try https://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/ on a 3.5", 5.25" etc diskette or on the boot drive and follow the recipe in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManager ..might even boot 8086 boxes, but I doubt it works on EFI boxes. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ConsoleKit2
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 01:53:34 +, David wrote in message <cabadh0y-2q4w4_8heqawub+-61xh1yikwq-9vkqmf9xafd3...@mail.gmail.com>: > Apparently due to the systemd agenda of it's original maintainers, > ConsoleKit is "deprecated". > > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2012-January/msg2.html ...alleges: "Now, one distribution expressed interested in maintaining ConsoleKit, but under a different name. It will still use the same API (dbus name, etc). However, their interest is likely solely focussed around their distribution and not anything else." ..this name?: > Consolekit2 is forked and actively maintained by XFCE4 maintainer > Eric Koegel. > > https://consolekit2.github.io/ConsoleKit2/ > > It works. Consolekit2 has been successfully deb-packaged and used here > (since even before Devuan) up to the latest "stable release" (1.0.2). ..which distro? > Is anyone interested? > > David -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] how to clear DNS cache
On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 09:21:08 -0600 (CST), ja...@beau.org wrote in message <54290.192.168.250.61.1483629668.squir...@beau.org>: > > Il giorno Wed, 4 Jan 2017 15:11:36 -0800 > > Rick Moen <r...@linuxmafia.com> ha scritto: > > >> There is obviously a happy middle ground. > > > Yes, it's called: "let the user decide". Level (0) menu: > > > A) Let the install program choose all the required settings (basic, > > no-frills, > > automatic install, zero questions asked) [Default] > > B) Customize the system at install time > > I kind of like: > > A) Beginner ..this needs nice safe paranoid defaults that protects beginners from bad etc 3-letter etc dudes etc... blunders and not. ..both https://tails.boum.org/ and https://www.qubes-os.org/ are endorsed by Edward Snowden, despite running systemd... go figure. > B) Experienced > C) Expert > D) NetGod > > The questions asked would depend on the various levels - Beginner gets > networking set up asking the fewest possible questions, Experienced > gets asked "Do you want to set up a default recursive name server?" > Expert gets to pick from the list, and NetGod gets a commmand line to > set up the name server system the way they want it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/jessie
On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:10:11 +0200, Florian wrote in message <20170328111011.570adbc6.f.zieb...@web.de>: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:04:18 -0400 > Héctor A. Abreu <habre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > > > I am trying to find out why I'm getting an error when trying to add > > a PPA repository in Devuan Jessie, but not getting the same error in > > Debian Jessie. It's just for a program called "Hollywood > > Technodrama". I run the same command for both distros: > > > > ~$ sudo apt-add-repository ppa:hollywood/ppa > > > It seems that the software-properties-common package doesn't know > about Devuan yet. As apt-add-repository just adds a new entry to the > sources.list under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, the easiest workaround > would be to copy the newly created item from your Debian Jessie system > to the Devuan system. ..try verify there is no e.g. classic "Ken Thompson Compiler Hack" style trick hiding in there, e.g. meant to deny Devuan support. ..and we probably wanna do this on all our packages. Big job, I know. And I'm busy trying a run for parliament to try escape Kafka style suppressive fire litigation ongoing since Groklaw.net. > libre Grüße, > > Florian > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJY2ih7AAoJEO5FSXn+RB/WiT4P+gNtmHNRn5lB9j/ut70iaVj7 > 93aN4wxLyfGIqB7D8XEPOMYeuqUxIrjtRlsx1GwmhPsiEOFrP6My8dkiT2Tzh4BY > +62jkEiFDYEx6JzY2Xsc0j6a8aVorY/M0bbgoCl3JPNUCZEkrjf6xzRm/RJXqNtU > lTTeZk3xaJRvhfMkZxfygKd5OGmv91CNb1ivpluf9F0gLPYKpxHA78hMx1xNbuag > ACp58uDPE/PKTqza1BQiPTqckrO+F81+PLzaRga4cWFk1UM49fwHJV48CUvjevQD > MRfyg8Y4vQ3HBWVfLE/4SBS0xpLoB2dEmXcNT9YcoXcSBzvSu6nDQzW/FAuxYncf > hEcGk4aGZ/YsvvRYqbnVU1SbXCImXrrn4wFoH5zGh6oppHVgzKodkeeePu2YLvIX > hTXIfMF+97N2Tigwxrt5EAMVVTu3z4iEk35vvyi8hCO84i/2Gea6EgeLsQM0uuMT > sg8nilfnOagH/r+CKXFDuWfW1vuF09NoLQBbZwFxtMghjvgNDAH1nBu04K/PvqHp > d0H6seXa3hm4w29bETi1U0u1zlbHCc3TVWyDI9MRcnUqGX0lX+ILAHRZBTOP9dZh > ebGM464LGugKKk3rFcjSCn4Q6sxiz5WJ/UPXI49O/zRBwCWbgYMXEhtb6ifBDnLn > eQtI9tA0TOlzpXK7qZOk > =pjxG > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > _______ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..http://amprolla.devuan.org/ is down, https://devuan.org/ remains up.
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 11:12:10 -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message <9d409cb83199281c9e0a0b1c589e0...@dyne.org>: > On 2017-03-25 10:17, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > Hi, > > > > ..http://amprolla.devuan.org/ is down, https://devuan.org/ remains > > up. > > It's back up now. ..excellent, but what happened to it? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..http://amprolla.devuan.org/ is down, https://devuan.org/ remains up.
Hi, ..http://amprolla.devuan.org/ is down, https://devuan.org/ remains up. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New documentation on the Surf browser
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:11:05 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20170313171105.296b8...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 16:32:58 + > KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:20:42PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 19:10:00 -0400 > > > Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I have found two browser-related devuan packages that have surf > > > > in their names. > > > > > > > > surf > > > > netsurf > > > > > > > > Is either of them relted to the surf you are documenting? > > > > > > Yes. The Surf I've documented is installed by the surf package. > > > The more experience I get with Surf, the more I believe that the > > > package should be installed only as a "hello world" exercise, but > > > later uninstalled and replaced by a custom configured > > > make_clean;make;make_install installation. All Suckless Tools > > > software is configured by modifying the config.h file and then > > > recompiling, meaning that the user can't modify any behavior the > > > package bestows. > > > > Hi, > > > > I would actually suggest to recompile surf using the deb-src in the > > repos. This is much cleaner, and results in a new .deb package that > > can be installed and removed safely. > > Yeah, that'll work as long as Debian didn't mess with Suckless' > source, and as long as it compiles to surf-0.7. And tabbed should > compile to 0.6. ..one thing we should have learned by now, is preparing for the worst, assume they _will_ mess with watever hurts us the most at the worst time, and plan ahead to squash any such scheme. > You mentioned safe removal. Tabbed, Surf and Dmenu all have a "make > uninstall" option that removes all their executables and shellscripts > from the directories "make install" put them in. And the beauty of > these installations is they contain no .so or other libraries, so for > the most part uninstallation is simply the removal of executables. ..the problem with those old ways, is they don't even try to prevent name space etc conflicts. Debian etc systemd people will need to work hard to kill off dpkg and apt, if we keep our own git record of these handy. Do we? > So whether you're the kind of person who likes making your own > packages, or the kind who just wants to get down to business, these > three Suckless tools are just what the doctor ordered. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] surf segmentation fault
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 19:36:50 +1100, Ralph wrote in message <b7684f9f-a551-33aa-f216-675bbf62b...@gmail.com>: > The page loads "fine" for me. Same surf version. There's some few and > probably irrelevant log lines in the terminal, but no seg-fault. > > Ralph. ..put them online somewhere and post the link here. ..I don't have surf installed yet, so I did the next best thing, I put http://www.dhl.de into https://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_uri+with_options ticking off everything but "Clean up Markup with HTML-Tidy" below "More Options" and got: https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dhl.de%2Fde%2Fprivatkunden.html=yes=yes=yes ..could be they don't wanna do business with people who reject ads... > Robert Nilsson wrote on 2017-03-18 18:12: > > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 07:54:17AM +0100, Joachim Fahrner wrote: > >> Please can someone try to load http://www.dhl.de with surf? > >> I get a segmentation fault when opening this page. > >> That happens woth both, the version from stable and the version > >> from backports. > >> > >> Regards > >> Jochen > >> > >> ___ > >> Dng mailing list > >> Dng@lists.dyne.org > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > Hi Jochen, > > > > I can confirm that I get a segmentation fault as well on debian > > jessie. surf -version > > surf-0.6, ©2009-2012 surf engineers, see LICENSE for details > > > > Regards > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] problem at talk.devuan.org?
On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 06:35:40 +0200, Miroslav wrote in message <20170405043540.GA9912@g0n.xdwgrp>: > On 170403-23:32+0200, Massimiliano Baldinelli wrote: > > Ciao! > > > > I don't know if its' an already known issue, but since this morning > > I'm getting a SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE when browsing > > talk.devuan.org. > > > > Max. > > I just tried to open, in Palemoon, in my Gentoo, pasted > talk.devuan.org, and it turned into HTTPS [1] > https://talk.devuan.org/ > > And I got: > > This Connection is Untrusted > > You have asked Pale Moon to connect securely to talk.devuan.org, but > we can't confirm that your connection is secure. > > Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted > identification to prove that you are going to the right place. > However, this site's identity can't be verified. What Should I Do? > > If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could > mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't > continue. > ... ..trying with Chromium, I get: "Your connection is not private Attackers might be trying to steal your information from talk.devuan.org (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards). NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID ReloadHIDE ADVANCED talk.devuan.org normally uses encryption to protect your information. When Chromium tried to connect to talk.devuan.org this time, the website sent back unusual and incorrect credentials. This may happen when an attacker is trying to pretend to be talk.devuan.org, or a Wi-Fi sign-in screen has interrupted the connection. Your information is still secure because Chromium stopped the connection before any data was exchanged. You cannot visit talk.devuan.org right now because the website uses HSTS. Network errors and attacks are usually temporary, so this page will probably work later. Learn more." ..trying http://talk.devuan.org/ , I immediately get thrown back to the https mess above. > > > --- > [1] > which is not necessarily the case for e.g. dev1galaxy.org, they allow > HTTP, so if your browser, e.g. Pale Moon --poor or no support from > HTTPS Everywhere-- does not seek HTTPS automatically, dev1galaxy.org > will even log you on in plaintext: that's an issue, to my > understanding; I already reported it to dev1galaxy.org maintainers > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] bugs.devuan.org online
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:43:01 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170403154301.gy7...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Apr 03, 2017 at 05:24:26PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > > > Please use both tools as much as possible and report any bugs to > > > bugs.devuan.org ;) > > > > > > HH > > > > > > KatolaZ > > > > > > > ..can the tricks in https://bugs.devuan.org/Developer.html be > > used by non-devuan dev people to sabotage bugs.devuan.org? > > > > Yes, sure :) > > > ..in such case it should hide behind some kinda login "door", > > if it's safe in the open, leave it safe in the open. ;o) > > > > Well, Debian BTS has been around for more than 20 years so far, so it > is quite well known. We will have some problems, for sure, but we will > do our best to minimise their impact. Having a functional BTS > compatible with Debian's one is vital to let developers cooperate with > Devuan. > > > ..I ask because I cannot find Debian's "Developer.html", they have > > similar pages going into more into a bunch of their details and > > less into our bug control management details. > > > > Maybe I misunderstood your email, but are you talking about these > files: > > https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer ..mostly this, I got thrown off looking for the English terms in this Norwegian language page, I missed that very bit. ;oD > https://www.debian.org/Bugs/server-control ..and a wee bit of this. It's been a while. > ??? Yes, they are available to everybody, from bugs.debian.org. > Again, debbugs (the BTS we are running) is free software. It's code is > available to anybody, and has been used by several projects, including > GNU. You can also download the version currently used by Debian > through git: > > https://bugs.debian.org/debbugs-source/debbugs.git/ > > and look into their spamassassin rules, as well. > > You can't stop stupid people from doing stupid things simply by hiding > relevant information :) ..you're right, worry about our smart clever etc enemies. ..fixing our own stupid blunders is much easier, sometimes we wisen up enough to fix our own blunders ourselves even before "we" find out. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] bugs.devuan.org online
On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:58:12 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170403125812.gs7...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > Dear Devuaners, > > just to let you know that the Devuan's bug tracking system is finally > available online at: > > https://bugs.devuan.org > > The system is compatible with the BTS used by Debian (we are actually > using the same code base), and shares the same workflow. We must thank > golinux for the fantastic restyling of the originally pretty sparse > webpages (it is just my fault if the restyling is not yet complete: > please be patient, since we have been focusing more on functionality > than on appearance). > > You can report bugs by using a slightly revised version of the > classical "reportbug" tool, which is available in > jessie-proposed. Just add the following line to your sources.list (if > you don'e have it): > > deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ jessie-proposed main > > and, after the usual apt-get update, you should be able to install > reportbug-6.6.3+devuan1.1. It's still pretty much Debian-branded, but > this version of reportbug knows about bugs.devuan.org and addresses > emails to it by default. If everything goes well, the package will > transit to jessie soon. > > Please use both tools as much as possible and report any bugs to > bugs.devuan.org ;) > > HH > > KatolaZ > ..can the tricks in https://bugs.devuan.org/Developer.html be used by non-devuan dev people to sabotage bugs.devuan.org? ..in such case it should hide behind some kinda login "door", if it's safe in the open, leave it safe in the open. ;o) ..I ask because I cannot find Debian's "Developer.html", they have similar pages going into more into a bunch of their details and less into our bug control management details. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] No action on lid close with xfce4-power-manager
On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 08:28:49 +0200, Joachim wrote in message <6257f982c6fdb7d147d20178ff7b6...@fahrner.name>: > I have a simple openbox desktop and installed xfce4-power-manager. It > handles most events fine (battery, brightness) but there is no action > on lid close. The net is full of those reports, but most have to do > with systemd/logind, which we don't have on Devuan. > Any ideas what could be wrong in Devuan? ..could be you have systemd crud onboard that you wanna drop. Also, it could be your hardware, as in "which laptop?" > Btw: what are all these files under /etc/systemd/system directory? ..most of my crud links to /lib/systemd/. > What does a /etc/systemd on Devuan??? ..help us ID packages to build from source, help us find ways to translate systemdisms into other sys init isms where relevant. ..systemd is much more than an init these days, it appears capable of subverting or protecting e.g. Tor privacy protection systems, it's used in https://www.qubes-os.org/ and https://tails.boum.org/ and is endorsed by people like Edward Snowden, who is either right, or wrong, in: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/781493632293605376 ..me, I'd like to see a systemd-free qubes-os style host OS. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:49:53 -0400, Renaud wrote in message <20170413094953.0b06f...@ron.cerrocora.org>: > On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:04:57 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no> wrote: > > > > > Well, the official policy, insofar as there is one, appears to > > > > be that Devuan is about choice. Therefore, it should make > > > > available (1) the choice to do without systemd and (2) the > > > > choice to use systemd. > > > > > > The choice exists already: the user can either use systemd running > > > Debian, or not use it running Devuan. > > > > ..what devuan does not support, is the ability to offer a newbie > > the option to "try another init system" without having to reinstall > > everything after finding pain with systemd onboard. > > Given that systemd is no longer (if it ever was) an init system, but > an operating system. ..aye, but debian.org et al are still pushing the "init system" narrative. > Which rules out switching to or from systemd without a complete > reinstall. > > Anyroads all this is moot until Devuan becomes a mainstream > distribution, instead of being the domain of us geeks. ..I disagree we should wait, if we warn the newbies etc now, they are going to learn the easier way and likely learn to trust our advice on systemd and the systemd folks. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Fwd: init system agnosticism [WAS: how to remove libsystemd0 from a live-running debian desktop system]
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 05:32:05 -0400, Renaud wrote in message <20170413053205.3a7e6...@ron.cerrocora.org>: > On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:32:32 -0400 > Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > > Well, the official policy, insofar as there is one, appears to be > > that Devuan is about choice. Therefore, it should make available > > (1) the choice to do without systemd and (2) the choice to use > > systemd. > > The choice exists already: the user can either use systemd running > Debian, or not use it running Devuan. ..what devuan does not support, is the ability to offer a newbie the option to "try another init system" without having to reinstall everything after finding pain with systemd onboard. ..one way of "offering systemd", could be point to Debian.org and "warn about having to reinstall everything if you wanna come back", maybe advice on the wisdom of putting /home, /usr/local etc on their own file systems, rather than "everything on /." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..vdev box recovery ideas?, was: gvfs depends on libsystemd0
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:21:53 +1000, Ralph wrote in message <d3a264ce-a767-dffc-845d-d1eb26027...@gmail.com>: > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 19/04/17 23:17: > [cut] > > > > ...wiped udev off my box and wound up with a box that boots oh soo > > fine until it tries to load my new vdev > > initrd.img-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64 ...am I the first one here to try this > > on a rt kernel? > > > > ..recovery ideas? Do we have any vdev live-cd? > > > > ..last time I did this stunt, I chrooted in off a Knoppix? iso, > > I have memdisk and a few iso links handy in /boot, and Debian's > > Sid vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-amd64, vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-rt-amd64 and > > vmlinuz-4.9.0-1-rt-amd64 with systemd-udev initrd's, but they all > > depend on a working install of udev AFAIK, and I'd prefer pushing > > thru with vdev rather than going back to udev. > > > > ..has anyone here tried downgrading to Debian Wheezy era udev? > > > > > > ..looking for recovery live-cd idea starting points, I came across > > 32-bit https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/zz02debiandogwheezy.html > > which could work both as a starting point for a live-cd and as a > > starting point for an upgrade path for stuck Debian Wheezy people > > via "Devuan-0.x Wheezy" to current Devuan-1.x Jessie. > > > > ..according to https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/ "DebianDog is > > very small Debian Live CD shaped to look and act like Puppy Linux. > > Debian structure and Debian behaviour are untouched and Debian > > documentation is 100% valid for DebianDog. You have access to all > > debian repositories using apt-get or synaptic.", creating > > "Devuan-0.x Wheezy Live-CD" etc is trivial, toss their repos for > > ours, update, upgrade and remaster, the 64-bit version likely needs > > to be built off deb-src lines. > > > > > > ..but first comes the classic chicken-and-egg 64 bit recovery > > I need now. ;o) > > > > I'm not sure it helps you, but I've made a vdev variant of most > recent devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live.iso (time stamped > 2017-Mar-27 20:57) that I got from the official mirror > http://mirror.sfo12.us.leaseweb.net/devuan/ > > I purged a couple of things from it, then added and installed "my" > vdev_0.1.1_amd64.deb, and made a refractasnapshot of this, into > devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso, which is downloadable at > https://www.uk.realsam.co.uk/files/devuan/ > > It boots with vdev rather than udev, and udev remains installed, > though with all its "competing" files tucked away. As you might know, > this vdev packaging is different from aitor's packaging for gnuinos > by not declaring a udev competition, but rather attempting to manage > a dynamic choice of which one is in use. The software is otherwise > the same, I believe. ..thanks, we shall find out. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..vdev box recovery ideas?, was: gvfs depends on libsystemd0
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 13:56:33 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20170419135633.56c5b...@nb6.lan>: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 11:31:35 +0200, aitor_czr wrote in message > <cbf052d3-aa6d-87bb-8c94-eacb0445c...@gnuinos.org>: > > > Hi Hendrik, > > > > On 04/11/2017 12:17 AM, Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > > What is the status of vdev? Is it packages and inthe repositories > > > yet? Is it too much to hope it;s available in jessie? > > > > > > -- hendrik > > > > As fsmithred said in the irc, there are two sets of packages working > > for now: > > > > https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/vdev (by Ralph Ronquist) > > > > and: > > > > deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/unsystemd jessie main > > deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/unsystemd jessie main > > > > You have to run vdev-assistant in this second case. But be carefull > > with the "live" hook in the initramfs-tools, it needs some simple > > changes. Remove all the live-* packages from your system if they > > exist, before installing vdev. > > ..I forgot this bit, ...wiped udev off my box and wound up with a box that boots oh soo fine until it tries to load my new vdev initrd.img-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64 ...am I the first one here to try this on a rt kernel? ..recovery ideas? Do we have any vdev live-cd? ..last time I did this stunt, I chrooted in off a Knoppix? iso, I have memdisk and a few iso links handy in /boot, and Debian's Sid vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-amd64, vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-rt-amd64 and vmlinuz-4.9.0-1-rt-amd64 with systemd-udev initrd's, but they all depend on a working install of udev AFAIK, and I'd prefer pushing thru with vdev rather than going back to udev. ..has anyone here tried downgrading to Debian Wheezy era udev? ..looking for recovery live-cd idea starting points, I came across 32-bit https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/zz02debiandogwheezy.html which could work both as a starting point for a live-cd and as a starting point for an upgrade path for stuck Debian Wheezy people via "Devuan-0.x Wheezy" to current Devuan-1.x Jessie. ..according to https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/ "DebianDog is very small Debian Live CD shaped to look and act like Puppy Linux. Debian structure and Debian behaviour are untouched and Debian documentation is 100% valid for DebianDog. You have access to all debian repositories using apt-get or synaptic.", creating "Devuan-0.x Wheezy Live-CD" etc is trivial, toss their repos for ours, update, upgrade and remaster, the 64-bit version likely needs to be built off deb-src lines. ..but first comes the classic chicken-and-egg 64 bit recovery I need now. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] gvfs depends on libsystemd0
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 11:31:35 +0200, aitor_czr wrote in message <cbf052d3-aa6d-87bb-8c94-eacb0445c...@gnuinos.org>: > Hi Hendrik, > > On 04/11/2017 12:17 AM, Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > > What is the status of vdev? Is it packages and inthe repositories > > yet? Is it too much to hope it;s available in jessie? > > > > -- hendrik > > As fsmithred said in the irc, there are two sets of packages working > for now: > > https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/vdev (by Ralph Ronquist) > > and: > > deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/unsystemd jessie main > deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/unsystemd jessie main > > You have to run vdev-assistant in this second case. But be carefull > with the "live" hook in the initramfs-tools, it needs some simple > changes. Remove all the live-* packages from your system if they > exist, before installing vdev. ..I forgot this bit, but fixed another assumption bug, the apt database is not neccessarily working as it should, on a trashed systemd etc box: root@trashed-systemd-etc-box:/var/cache/apt/archives# diff -U0 \ /usr/bin/vdev-assistant.org /usr/bin/vdev-assistant --- /usr/bin/vdev-assistant.org 2016-12-29 14:24:21.0 +0100 +++ /usr/bin/vdev-assistant 2017-04-17 05:01:18.089053089 +0200 @@ -35 +35,3 @@ -apt --reinstall install libudev1-compat +#apt --reinstall install libudev1-compat +dpkg -P libudev1-compat +dpkg -Bi libudev1-compat* @@ -37 +39,3 @@ - apt --reinstall install libudev-dev +# apt --reinstall install libudev-dev +dpkg -P libudev-dev + dpkg -Bi libudev-dev* @@ -39,2 +43,4 @@ -mv /etc/insserv/overrides/vdev /etc/insserv/overrides/udev -apt --reinstall install vdev +mv -vf /etc/insserv/overrides/vdev /etc/insserv/overrides/udev +#apt --reinstall install vdev +dpkg -P vdev +dpkg -Bi vdev* @@ -52 +58 @@ - apt-get install libvdev1 + dpkg -Bi libvdev1* @@ -54 +60 @@ - apt-get install libudev1-compat + dpkg -Bi libudev1-compat* @@ -57 +63 @@ - apt-get install libudev-compat-dev + dpkg -Bi libudev-compat-dev* @@ -59 +65 @@ - apt-get install libvdev-hwdb + dpkg -Bi libvdev-hwdb* @@ -63,2 +69,2 @@ - rm -f /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init - cp /usr/share/initramfs-tools/vdev-init/init /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ + rm -vf /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init + cp -v /usr/share/initramfs-tools/vdev-init/init /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ @@ -66 +72 @@ - apt-get install vdev + dpkg -Bi vdev* @@ -78 +84 @@ - dpkg --purge libvdev1 + dpkg --purge libudev1 @@ -92 +98 @@ - apt-get install libvdev1 + dpkg -Bi libvdev1* @@ -95 +101 @@ - mv /etc/insserv/overrides/vdev /etc/insserv/overrides/udev + mv -v /etc/insserv/overrides/vdev /etc/insserv/overrides/udev @@ -100 +106 @@ - apt-get install libudev-dev + dpkg -Bi libudev-dev* @@ -104 +110 @@ - apt-get install libudev1 + dpkg -Bi libudev1* @@ -106,2 +112,2 @@ - rm -f /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init - cp /usr/share/initramfs-tools/udev-init/init /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ + rm -fv /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init + cp -v /usr/share/initramfs-tools/udev-init/init /usr/share/initramfs-tools/ @@ -109,2 +115,2 @@ - rm -f /etc/insserv/overrides/udev - apt-get install udev + rm -fv /etc/insserv/overrides/udev + dpkg -Bi udev* ..those funny lines missing "+" and "-" starting "/", are long and broken. ;o) > Now, the priority are the manpages. You can read more here: > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=43 > > Recently i tried to run a devuan vanilla with vdev and a 4.x kernel, > and it didn't work (in live mode) because the system searched for a > cdrom_id binary, non existent in vdev. On the other hand, you will > need to set your keyboard configuration at every reboot (minor issue) > depending on your keymap. Beyond that,vdev works fine for me. > > Cheers, > >Aitor. > > > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My buddy told me there's an idiot born every minute
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 13:28:43 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20170423132843.36501...@nb6.lan>: > On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 03:33:49 -0400, Steve wrote in message > <20170423033349.241f4...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > > > Hi all, > > > > My buddy told me there's an idiot born every minute. This guy Jorgen > > Shafer must have been born on that lucky second, given this article: > > > > https://dzone.com/articles/logging-in-new-style-daemons-with-systemd > > > > All these wonderful benefits of what he calls systemd's "new style > > daemons" became available in 2001, when djb published daemontools. > > How these guys keep influencing the narrative to pretend that > > sysvinit, systemd and Upstart are the only init systems on the > > planet is beyond me. > > > > What's really sad is this: If you use sysvinit but start all your > > daemons from daemontools, that's just about as good as using runit > > or s6. But nobody knows it, and when you say it, they put their > > fingers in their ears and yell nah nah nah. ..maybe we should offer them an easy systemd-based grub invaders game variant running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4 or fetch and run http://www.nyan.cat/ ... ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release candidate
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:14:08 +0200, Veteran wrote in message <20170421161408.ngq4cc7ee2lsy43a@reflex>: > Official Devuan images are distributed via the website > (https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_rc/) ..er, try a new upload of devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_amd64_DVD.list.gz, zless output: " 302 Found 302 Found nginx devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_amd64_DVD.list.gz (END)" and ll sez: luther@heads /mnt/home/arnt/devuan/installer-iso % ll \ devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_*_DVD.list.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 luther luther 154 Apr 22 03:48 devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_amd64_DVD.list.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 luther luther 42537 Apr 22 03:50 devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_i386_DVD.list.gz -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..vdev box recovery ideas?, was: gvfs depends on libsystemd0
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:54:07 +0200, Arnt wrote in message <20170419185407.228cd...@nb6.lan>: > On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:21:53 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > <d3a264ce-a767-dffc-845d-d1eb26027...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 19/04/17 23:17: > > [cut] > > > > > > ...wiped udev off my box and wound up with a box that boots oh soo > > > fine until it tries to load my new vdev > > > initrd.img-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64 ...am I the first one here to try this > > > on a rt kernel? > > > > > > ..recovery ideas? Do we have any vdev live-cd? > > > > > > ..last time I did this stunt, I chrooted in off a Knoppix? iso, > > > I have memdisk and a few iso links handy in /boot, and Debian's > > > Sid vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-amd64, vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-rt-amd64 and > > > vmlinuz-4.9.0-1-rt-amd64 with systemd-udev initrd's, but they all > > > depend on a working install of udev AFAIK, and I'd prefer pushing > > > thru with vdev rather than going back to udev. > > > > > > ..has anyone here tried downgrading to Debian Wheezy era udev? > > > > > > > > > ..looking for recovery live-cd idea starting points, I came across > > > 32-bit > > > https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/zz02debiandogwheezy.html > > > which could work both as a starting point for a live-cd and as a > > > starting point for an upgrade path for stuck Debian Wheezy people > > > via "Devuan-0.x Wheezy" to current Devuan-1.x Jessie. > > > > > > ..according to https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/ "DebianDog is > > > very small Debian Live CD shaped to look and act like Puppy Linux. > > > Debian structure and Debian behaviour are untouched and Debian > > > documentation is 100% valid for DebianDog. You have access to all > > > debian repositories using apt-get or synaptic.", creating > > > "Devuan-0.x Wheezy Live-CD" etc is trivial, toss their repos for > > > ours, update, upgrade and remaster, the 64-bit version likely > > > needs to be built off deb-src lines. > > > > > > > > > ..but first comes the classic chicken-and-egg 64 bit recovery > > > I need now. ;o) > > > > > > > I'm not sure it helps you, but I've made a vdev variant of most > > recent devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live.iso (time stamped > > 2017-Mar-27 20:57) that I got from the official mirror > > http://mirror.sfo12.us.leaseweb.net/devuan/ > > > > I purged a couple of things from it, then added and installed "my" > > vdev_0.1.1_amd64.deb, and made a refractasnapshot of this, into > > devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso, which is downloadable > > at https://www.uk.realsam.co.uk/files/devuan/ > > > > It boots with vdev rather than udev, and udev remains installed, > > though with all its "competing" files tucked away. As you might > > know, this vdev packaging is different from aitor's packaging for > > gnuinos by not declaring a udev competition, but rather attempting > > to manage a dynamic choice of which one is in use. The software is > > otherwise the same, I believe. > > ..thanks, we shall find out. ;o) ..no joy this far, vdev does not work with any of my installed kernels, neither my dpkg variant of your vdev-assistant nor your original restores udev, so I'm stuck with live-CDs when I need to go online to chk things to read up on. ..you packaged your vdev differently than aitor, do I then use your deb(-src) lines in /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out his? ..another approach is ignore apt and dpkg, and simply drop in all files with tar or cpio or somesuch, haven't done that kinda stunt since my RH-5.2 days. ..if that fails, are you able to build me an old fashion monster monolithic kernel with nouveau, vdev and everything else compiled into the kernel, and not as modules, that I can boot without an initrd? Big size is no problem, I have 8GB ram, but no build box. ..if not, what do I need to build a vdev kernel myself on my box running your devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..setnet.sh, wicd and heads-0.2 scorn, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:47:59 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message
<20170419214759.gc14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:37:32PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> >
> > ..what nasty command line tricks do I use to get online with
> > devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso?
> > (Ideally wifi, but eth0 will work.)
> >
>
>
> Hi Arnt,
>
> if it comes from a minimal-live RC, you have setnet in there. Just
> run:
>
> # setnet.sh
>
> It also has a manpage, but simple comfiguration should be pretty
> straightforward. Any feedback is welcome.
..setnet.sh works nicely, but it and wicd should check for unchanged
default passwords and _refuse_ to go online until you do the "passwd
passwd devuan ||passwd heads " dance, espescially since we're here
because we don't trust systemd endpoint security in e.g. Tails-2.12.
..scaring them into changing the default passwords with horror stories
does not work, it's too damned convenient, brutality is warranted here,
make them change the default passwords before letting them online.
..do leave the default passwords available with a "no-persistant" boot
option, especially heads-0.2 users may be in a hurry and cannot be
expected to have the time or skill or even the presence of mind to
learn the finer points of zsh commandline history preservation and
"awesome awesome" when facing government etc "shock and awe" tactics.
..good people might die when they run ("into") these death traps.
The only 2 endpoint security problems with Tails-2.12 I'm aware of,
is it runs Gnome and on systemd. Edward Snowden et al trusts it.
..heads-0.2.1 onwards needs to be newbie-safe, to be safe online.
..unless you use heads-0.2+ to pick up chicks, you wanna have it look
like some boring old web cafe Wintendo, and hide in the big masses of
Wintendo users.
Hide your persistence or gtomb images among embarrasing porn movies,
they also make great keys and cover-up story starters. ;o)
..heads users may also want https://guardianproject.info/apps/ style
tools, e.g. from https://github.com/guardianproject and tutorials on
those tools installed so they can learn to use them offline, being
offline is safer.
..also, a 32bit option, 64bit software does not run on 32bit junk,
and people who need heads-0.2.1 etc, badly enough, cannot be expected
to enjoy the luxury of 64bit hardware wherever they run off to.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FF pulseaudio hard dependency is here
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 19:07:42 -0500, Hendrik wrote in message <2017031742.ga2...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 06:44:59PM -0500, in discussion on > firefox, alsa, pulseaudio and Devuan, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > Devuan is Linux, Linux is free software, and the Android OS, > > whatever it's called, is definitely not free software. Your > > response would be more ontopic on an Android list. > > I understand the political reasons for rejecting pulseaudio. I > understand the risk that it contribute to the systemdification of the > Linux world. > > But let me hope that there are also technical arguments against it > as a piece of software that exists now, as opposed to what it ws a > few years ago and what it may execresce into in a few years. ..here, you flip "tech merit" on its head, pulseaudio made it into "Linux" because we were too damned naive, just like the train loads of Jews enroute to Auschwitz, "Gas us??? Then why the fuck did the Gestapo boss throw my 95 year old Great Grand parents off the boat in Oslo for 'health reasons'"? That makes no sense!"... ..what did make sense to the Nazis, was save on guard manpower by using common sense or common decency to trick the train loads of Jews into not rioting, but "wait and see what happens in Auschwitz." ..all it took, was flip "tech merit" etc common sense, on its head. > Presumably these have been summed up somewhere on the web. > > -- hendrik -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] FF pulseaudio hard dependency is here
On Wed, 8 Mar 2017 17:56:22 +, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170308175622.gv1...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 11:33:30AM -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > This is a follow up to this old thread: > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161002.124357.7c39d049.en.html > > > > According to this post on FDN - > > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=638632#p638632 - the hard > > pulseaudio requirement has now been implemented: > > > > "From Firefox 52 onwards, pulseaudio is a hard requirement for > > sound on linux. Alsa is unsupported and alsa code will be removed > > in Firefox 54." (from - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.c ... > > 47056#c178 ) > > > > So heads up that Devuan might need recompile FF for alsa if Debian > > does not. Of course, the blowback for going down this road could > > yet change Mozilla's mind. Yeah, right . . . > > > > Or maybe another viable alternative will miraculously appear . . . > > > > A cancer does not miraculously stop growing, unfortunately. It is > clear that the issue is not about choosing systemd or not, rather on > getting all the potterware or nothing. > > :( ..cheer up, we can still use FF as "The NO!!!-Sound Browser" ;o) and explain the why-nots and whys and how-to-be-stupid and pass the whiners on to the Debian etc poetterware distro folks. ..some of us HATES noisy ads that needs gas chamber treatment. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [ann] heads 0.0 is out!
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:21:49 +0100, Adam wrote in message <20170228212149.spuhnetb623om...@angband.pl>: > On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 04:06:16PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 09:12:34PM +0100, parazyd wrote: > > > heads 0.0 is out! > > > It finally happened and it's not vaporware! > > > > It's out, it's not vaporware, it boots into a VM or bare hardware > > from USB, but... > > > > What Is It? > > Ever heard of Tails? > > An independent remake (not a fork!) of Tails is an awesome thing. Not > because of details like systemd (which is really harmful only on a > system you need to actively administer), degradation of its user > interface because of relying on Gnome3 being also only a minor > concern. ..the probably easier way to defeat heads, is run it on systemd hosts like https://qubes-os.org/ ;o) ..now, can we build on heads to get a safe alternative to https://qubes-os.org/ ? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [ann] heads 0.0 is out!
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 23:35:13 -0800, Rick wrote in message <20170301073513.gb30...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..now, can we build on heads to get a safe alternative to > > https://qubes-os.org/ ? > > Pretty please? > > Qubes is a near-essential tool for Operations high-security work, and > about the only serious design flaw is the one Arnt points to. ..even https://subgraph.com/sgos/ uses systemd. I searched their site for "systemd" and found ... "5.8.3.2 Installing the operating system with deboostrap Now that the virtual disk-image is created, we can now use debootstrap to install Debian Stretch. Follow these steps to install it: Run debootstrap to install the operating system: $ sudo debootstrap --variant=mintbase --include=systemd-sysv stretch /mnt" ...once in https://subgraph.com/sgos-handbook/sgos_handbook.shtml and "systemctl" 3 times below "5.4.1 Profiling applications with ROFLCopTor". .."you do the math..." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..would this Xen bug on paravirtualisation, be preventable in a non-systemd qubes-os?
Hi, ..bug details: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/05/patch_qubes_to_prevent_pwnage_via_xen_bug/ https://www.qubes-os.org/ https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/03/21/xsa-tracker/ https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/04/04/qsb-29/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..setnet.sh, wicd and heads-0.2 scorn, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:21:53 +0200, parazyd wrote in message <20170424152153.GA12944@fq>: > On Mon, 24 Apr 2017, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:25:09 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message > > <20170424122509.gt14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > > > > > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 03:05:42AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:47:59 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message > > > > <20170419214759.gc14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:37:32PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [cut] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..what nasty command line tricks do I use to get online with > > > > > > devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso? > > > > > > (Ideally wifi, but eth0 will work.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Arnt, > > > > > > > > > > if it comes from a minimal-live RC, you have setnet in there. > > > > > Just run: > > > > > > > > > > # setnet.sh > > > > > > > > > > It also has a manpage, but simple comfiguration should be > > > > > pretty straightforward. Any feedback is welcome. > > > > > > > > ..setnet.sh works nicely, but it and wicd should check for > > > > unchanged default passwords and _refuse_ to go online until you > > > > do the "passwd passwd devuan ||passwd heads " dance, > > > > espescially since we're here because we don't trust systemd > > > > endpoint security in e.g. Tails-2.12. > > > > > > > > > > uh? setnet and wicd are just *tools*, which allow to facilitate > > > the interaction with *mechanisms* related to network > > > configuration. > > > > > > What you are asking for (refuse to put a machine online if the > > > password of a given user is such and such) is a *policy*, which > > > has nothing to do with tools, since it ultimately (and > > > rightfully) stays in the hands of the system administrator. > > > > ...who in the case of Tails and heads admins, might be the clueless > > Ed Snowden types we wanna keep alive. > > Snowden is far from clueless. He might be a shill, but he's far from > clueless. ...and, he promotes Tails and Qubes OS, both running systemd. Ed came forward with the ugly truth on NSA etc espionage on their own people, not on his own IT expertise. ..the next guys having such ugly thruths to tell us humans, will probably have less IT expertise than Ed, and will be up against regimes who has learned from the Snowden case, so they will need better tools to survive their attempt to tell us the truth. > > ..we don't warn them before we drop them online on wired networks > > with heads-0.2. > > The vdev iso does this right though, it stays offline until you > > e.g. run setnet.sh. > > > > ..I agree this is a policy issue, and we should set it so at least > > clueless heads-0.2 etc people stay offline until they change their > > passwords away from the default ones. > > heads only connects to the Internet if there is a way for it to > connect. If your ethernet cable is out, you won't be online. And if > you have your ethernet cable plugged in, the expected behaviour is to > connect to the Internet. ..for you and me, that's ok, because we know we must change the defaults. A whistleblower on the run from a bad regime, might not know this, and he needs to know this and much more, or he's going to breach his own endpoint security. > > > Most of the problems we are facing nowadays with bloated software > > > and ill-defined hypercomplicated solutions to non-existing > > > problems is the lack of recognition that mechanisms and policy > > > *must* remain separate. > > > > > > If a user does not understand that putting their machine online > > > with a devuan/devuan user might be a security risk, there is no > > > automagic tool that case save their ass. > > > > > > Knowledge is the cure. Automagic is just dust in your eyes, and > > > enormous PITAs when somethings goes wrong. > > > > ..I have the Knowledge, but still found myself Automagically Online > > with heads-0.2's Default Passwords, Because I Forgot I still had the > > network wire plugged in on boot-up. I'm just a human who err. ;o) > > In my case, this endpoint security breach was no problem. &
Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 10:45:54 +0200, Svante wrote in message <1502786754.3090.22.ca...@gmail.com>: > On Thu, 2016-04-21 at 19:57 +0200, Rob van der Putten wrote: > > Hi there > > Hi > > > Which desktops work without systemd? > > A list would be nice. > > I'm running mate on an upgraded to ascii VM. ..I'm on KDE/Plasma, on vdev-0.1.2 and sysvinit-2.88dsf-59.2+devuan2. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 16:45:05 +1000, Erik wrote in message <20170815064505.GA3443@ratatosk>: > Finding Devuan, and subscribing last night, I'm keen to replace my > Debian 9.0 "Systemdix"¹, even at the cost of reverting to older > packages. But I don't much like Gnome either, and have become quite > used to LXDE - especially the boot speed of the leaner environment. ..ok, chances are you'll like LXQt. ;o) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXQt -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nvidia Drivers
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:45:11 -0400, zap wrote in message <733bb945-c664-c361-2690-17402dbdb...@posteo.de>: > > > Was X working before you tried the nvidia driver? > > Does /etc/xorg.conf exist now? If so, rename it so you can revert > > to a working X. > > > > Maybe try 'apt-get -f install' (without any packages named) to > > install any missing dependencies. I don't think that will do it, > > but it's worth a try. > > > > Someone else is having similar problems, and it seems there's a > > mismatch in versions of the different parts of nvidia. > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1540 > > > > I've used the nvidia driver in the past, and I tended to have > > better luck using the binaries downloaded from nvidia. There are > > some tricks with that, too. (you have to use the version of gcc > > that was used to compile the kernel, and in debian stable, that's > > always an older version than the default.) If you decide to go that > > route, make sure you remove all nvidia packages from your system > > first. > Not to be rude, but I wouldn't trust nvidia drivers even if they were > completely sandboxed. > > They A: hate free software, B: they require proprietary firmware and > C: Are a huge security risk, > > then again, most processors are too... but that's besides the point. ..I use nouveau on a G96GLM [Quadro FX 770M] @ 1920x1200x32@60fps on a Dell Precision M4400, it's the default driver and works well, even on a KDE/Plasma setup. The only use I'd have for the nvidia driver, would be for benchmarking Flightgear and for 1080p-and-up video. ..but how does nouveau and nvidia compare these days? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan presentation at Chemnitzer Linux-Tage (Germany) 2018?
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:27:13 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20170815012713.ga7...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 03:45:08PM +0200, Evilham wrote: > > > > > I'd recommend taking a look at this: > > https://www.slideshare.net/opennebula/opennebulaconf2015-112-the-status-of-devuan-project-alberto-zuin > > The slide "Why I Hate systemd" is likely to derail discussion because > of the loaded word "hate". Better to discuss technical merits and > demerits without raising emotions. ..I lean towards disagreeing, I rejected systemd on its creepy banana republic politics and its usage to defend the mission creep. ..I agree "hate" is a little too loaded and a little too warranted. ;o) ..systemd is quite clearly AFAICT, capable of both subverting and defending e.g. Tor tunneling, since it creeps in between kernelspace and userspace, running its own timeservices, dns etc. ..you can either trust the systemd as your friend, like Red Hat, Debian et al "mainstream Linux" does, or trust them as our enemy like we do. ..clearly, either we are wrong, in that case we have backups in the systemd distros, or, the systemd users are wrong in trusting the systemd developers, and will need a systemd-free backup. ..time will show. Meanwhile, we do not know which side is right and which side is wrong on systemd. ..has Ed Snowden and Joanna Rutkowska changed their mind on systemd, or do they still trust it? ..then we can learn from people like Linus and Theodore T'so. ..the "OT: most processors are insecure" is clearly worth a mention. And somebody at the Chemnitzer Linux-Tage might know when and how etc the systemd deveopers learned what we learned in that thread here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: most processors are insecure (was Re: Nvidia Drivers)
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 13:48:37 -0400, Haines wrote in message <20170815174837.gf32...@engels.historicalmaterialism.info>: > It would be naive to think that CPU producers don't build in a > backdoor. This is why I take an interest in Chinese CPUs. At this > point they are only RISC processors, but before long they should > produce a product competitive with Intel. I suppose it will also have > a back door, door, but China seems less threatening than the U.S. ..looks like Norway forcing me to hang on to old junk, gave me an upside, even if it was an expensive upside. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: most processors are insecure (was Re: Nvidia Drivers)
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 16:29:50 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <33ad4565-eb5d-f434-cb8d-0bbd8a8a3...@linux.com>: > On 15/08/2017 at 05:13, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > > FYI Many big companies get intel to include classified instruction > > sets to give them some kind of competitive edge. > > > > I can't find the link but it was in a bloomberg article about xeon > > CPU's. > > Maybe it's this piece: > > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-09/how-intel-makes-a-chip > > Another way to make a chip faster is to add special circuits that only > do one thing, but do it extremely quickly. Roughly 25 percent of the > E5’s circuits are specialized for, among other tasks, compressing > video and encrypting data. There are other special circuits on the > E5, but Intel can’t talk about those because they’re created for its > largest customers, the so-called Super 7: Google > <http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/google-taps-ibm-rackspace-to-dent-intel-s-hold-on-server-chips>, > Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Baidu, Alibaba, and Tencent. Those > companies buy—and often assemble for themselves—Xeon-powered servers > by the hundreds of thousands. If you buy an off-the-shelf Xeon server > from Dell or HP, the Xeon inside will contain technology that’s > off-limits to you. “We’ll integrate [a cloud customer’s] unique > feature into the product, as long as it doesn’t make the die so much > bigger that it becomes a cost burden for everyone else,” says Bryant. > “When we ship it to Customer A, he’ll see it. Customer B has no idea > that feature is there.” > ..does "FSB" qualify as a "3-letter agency" in this context and at this time? ;o) ..the "OT: most processors are insecure" is clearly worth a mention at the Chemnitzer Linux-Tage. ..and somebody at the Chemnitzer Linux-Tage might know when and how etc the systemd deveopers learned what we learned in that thread here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] udev replacement
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:23:14 +0800, Yevgeny wrote in message <CAFdgGSAUbpSZ8t+Ln80GT5jfTr_7Zh2_x6e_+p=y+d6wxqv...@mail.gmail.com>: > Hello everyone, > > I have just subscribed recently. > Could someone please enlighten me on the current udev replacement > status? I found there was vdev project but it looks abandoned (?) > Is there any other? > ..I'm on experimental vdev-0.1.2, upgraded from jessie vdev-0.1.1. We also have eudev. ..my understanding is much of the systemd-udev development is "just" obfuscation, to cover up systemd's true purpose and capabilities. My understanding comes from my experience with "banana republic" and Cold War politics. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] udev replacement
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:46:26 +0800, Yevgeny wrote in message
Re: [DNG] Linus can no longer trust "init"
On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 14:02:47 +0100, Simon wrote in message <98028782-f385-412e-aeab-2edf14663...@thehobsons.co.uk>: > "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <enrico.weig...@gr13.net> wrote: > > >> 3) Explain (in rational, technical, non-political) terms why > >> people should care that there is a choice - and why we think they > >> would be wise to take it. > > > > I wouldn't waste time on that. They have to learn by themselves - > > preaching doesn't help. > > Preaching is probably the wrong word to have used. But it clear from > reading comments on any article mentioning systemd that a great many > people really have no idea why they should care. it's not uncommon to > see one comment saying why one person doesn't want to run it (perhaps > to do with debuggability when it won't boot), to get a reply along > the lines of "I use and it works just > fine - what's the problem ?" So there really is a problem to solve > there. People are using it, many don't know, but of those who are, > they don't see why it's a problem (and in particular, why someone > should want to/be able to not use it) because "it works" for them. ..we _could_ "preach" by testing for systemd features and throw warning screens in the faces of the downstream etc users, and offer info links (and/or buttons) and an "I know WTF I am doing."-button to click thru. > >> Without 2 and 3, there won't be large scale adoption of the > >> alternatives > > > > NAK. 1) is enought. > > In the past we fought bigger dragons, eg. getting free from M$. > > I don't think that's comparable. > > >> - and without that, there is distinctly less incentive for the > >> upstream devs to keep support for the alternatives. > > > > Optional. We patch out the crap for packages we need, and drop > > those we don't need. > > But it's a lot less ongoing effort to keep that support in upstream. ..sometimes, with certain people, this is not a viable option, that's _when_ we need to fork these packages. > Yes you can patch it, but the more embedded systemd becomes, the more > patching is needed. Keep/get a critical mass so that upstream devs > see a case for keeping the non-systemd stuff, and maintaining the > non-systemd distro is less work. I cannot see a case for saying that > (in total) it's less work to patch a package after the fact than it > would be to maintain that package in a compatible state to start with. > > >> do they keep support for the old API ? To do so means more work - > > > effectively they have to maintain two bits of code everywhere > >> they use that function, and that means more work. > > > > Not, quite. Just rapair and support the original API - drop the > > systemd crap entirely. > > I think you've missed the point. "Repair and support the original > API" isn't an option if the upstream dev wants his package to be > runable on a systemd system - because systemd dev policy appears to > be deliberately forcing that binary choice of "systemd APIs or > nothing" into anything it can. ..that's _why_ these upstream packages needs to be forked, by us. > And the team behind systemd have shown > that they have no intension of fixing anything when they can better > support their aims by deprecating it and bringing something new (and > in their eyes, improved) to the table. If the systemd devs showed the > sort of attitude to the rest of the world (devs and users) that > others espouse, then there'd be no problem. It's the very fact that > they appear to be forcing this binary choice (systemd or nothing) is > why we're having this discussion. > > That's why I suggest it's important to keep the upstream devs onside > - because it's a lot easier to keep support for the traditional APIs > etc as an integral part of a package than it is to go through > patching after the fact. And it's easier to keep them onside if we > can show that there's a large (ie significant) user base for the > non-systemd version. > > At present it's (I assume) fairly easy to patch out systemd-isms as > it's not been around long enough to get major tentacles into most > stuff. Over time that will change - systemd will get deeper and > deeper into packages, and it will get harder and harder to remove it, > and to add in the now missing parts. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] YANAB (Yet-Another-Not-A-Bug)
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:22:53 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170710092253.ge15...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=867745 ..shouldn't the "Toggle useless messages" link show us the alleged useless and "Me too!!!" etc messages? ;o) ..message #5 in #867745 alleges it's a: Followup-For: Bug #806256: ... "Message #5 received at sub...@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply): From: Grant Chesy <gch...@cuesta.edu> To: sub...@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: libpam-systemd: log out from a TTY and your X input devices get lost! Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 00:37:08 -0700 Followup-For: Bug #806256 Package: systemd Version: 232-25" https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=806256 -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] udev replacement
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:41:05 +0200, Adam wrote in message <20170717214105.wdl77u6byfgtn...@angband.pl>: > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 04:10:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > 1: Is there a way I can install vdev and only vdev from > > experimental? How? > > Nothing ever gets installed from experimental unless you explicitly > say so. ...by inserting " -t experimental " between "apt-get|aptitude \ install" and the package names you want to install. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] udev replacement
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:08:22 -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message <3077089df6720e694d19fe6a8b807...@dyne.org>: > On 2017-07-17 15:10, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:19:18 +0100 > > KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 06:02:26PM +0800, Yevgeny Kosarzhevsky > >> wrote: > >> > Thanks! Looks like I've missed this repo :) > >> > > >> > >> Ok, be careful though, since stuff in experimental can be broken > >> and break other things, so you are warned :) > > > > 1: Is there a way I can install vdev and only vdev from > > experimental? How? ..my way was add the experimental lines to /etc/apt/sources.list, then fire up aptitude, hit "u", and then pick vdev and whichever dependencies it needs. > > 2: Is there a way I can later go back to udev? How? ..dunno, I ain't going back to systemd-udev. ;o) > There have been detailed discussions on #devuan. This search will > take you to the times they were happening. Click on the specific time > to get to the full exchanges: > > https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=vdev > > > > > Thanks, > > > > SteveT -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev replacement
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:43:11 -0400, Ismael wrote in message <137df52c5546401899313d3793aa3...@natio.co.cu>: > - Original Message - > From: "Arnt Karlsen" <a...@iaksess.no> > To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 5:35 PM > Subject: Re: [DNG] udev replacement ... > > ..weird, I got a mine ok right now, so I recommend you retry. > > The problem persists > > The problem is not: > ..these "//"'s in your ".devuan.org/devuan//dists/" paths looks fishy > > The problem is that you try to download > > Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET > http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan//dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz > ==> 404 Not Found (4s) > > And should download: > Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET > http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan//dists/experimental/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz > > ==> 404 Not Found (4s) > > The Release file has the following line: > Codename: None > And it should be: > Codename: experimental > > At least that's what I understand. ..you're right, and it looks like it was fixed today at 10:02, can you verify it works ok now? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] udev replacement
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:08:02 -0400, Ismael wrote in message <f65eae143dc34513a04cd7d115dc5...@natio.co.cu>: > - Original Message - > From: "Arnt Karlsen" <a...@iaksess.no> > To: "Yevgeny Kosarzhevsky" <phao...@gmail.com> > Cc: <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:37 AM > Subject: Re: [DNG] udev replacement > > > > On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:46:26 +0800, Yevgeny wrote in message > >
Re: [DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev replacement
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:36:10 -0400, Ismael wrote in message <ef731bb1b60646cd88a81d7873dfe...@natio.co.cu>: > - Original Message - > From: "Arnt Karlsen" <a...@iaksess.no> > To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:04 AM > Subject: [DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev > replacement > > > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:43:11 -0400, Ismael wrote in message > > <137df52c5546401899313d3793aa3...@natio.co.cu>: > > > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Arnt Karlsen" <a...@iaksess.no> > >> To: <dng@lists.dyne.org> > >> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 5:35 PM > >> Subject: Re: [DNG] udev replacement > > > > ... > > > >> > ..weird, I got a mine ok right now, so I recommend you retry. > >> > >> The problem persists > >> > >> The problem is not: > >> ..these "//"'s in your ".devuan.org/devuan//dists/" paths looks > >> fishy > >> > >> The problem is that you try to download > >> > >> Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET > >> http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan//dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz > >> ==> 404 Not Found (4s) > >> > >> And should download: > >> Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET > >> http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan//dists/experimental/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz > >> ==> 404 Not Found (4s) > >> > >> The Release file has the following line: > >> Codename: None > >> And it should be: > >> Codename: experimental > >> > >> At least that's what I understand. > > > > ..you're right, and it looks like it was fixed today at 10:02, > > can you verify it works ok now? > > > > -- > > ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen > > ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... > > Scenarios always come in sets of three: > > best case, worst case, and just in case. > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > No, the problem persists > > root@(none):/mnt/datos/sistemas/linux/devuan# sh rdexperimental.sh > = > Actualizando los repositorios DEVUAN 'experimental'; main > = > > Mirroring to /mnt/datos/sistemas/linux/devuan/experimental from > http://packages.devuan.org/devuan// > Arches: i386,amd64 > Dists: experimental > Sections: main > Pdiff mode: none > Will clean up after mirroring. > Attempting to get lock ... > Not able to use rsync to update remote trace files ... > Getting meta files ... > [ 0%] Getting: dists/experimental/Release... #** GET > http://packages.devuan.org/devuan//dists/experimental/Release ==> 200 > OK (63s) > ok > [ 0%] Getting: dists/experimental/Release.gpg... #** GET > http://packages.devuan.org/devuan//dists/experimental/Release.gpg ==> > 200 OK (2s) > ok > [GNUPG:] ERRSIG 94532124541922FB 1 8 00 1500372143 9 > [GNUPG:] NO_PUBKEY 94532124541922FB > gpgv: recurso de bloque de clave `/root/.gnupg/trustedkeys.gpg': > error al abrir fichero > gpgv: Firmado el mar 18 jul 2017 06:02:23 CDT usando clave RSA ID > 541922FB gpgv: Imposible comprobar la firma: clave pública no > encontrada Release gpg signature does not verify. > [ 23%] Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET ..which _should_ be "dists/experimental/main/", and _not_ "dists/None/main/"... etc, your script is picking up the wrong "None" name instead of "experimental". -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 09:50:11 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170716165011.gj28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..sissy. ;o) > > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web > > http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD > > Oh, I can be scathing, too. I just try not to suffer the delusion > that it's inherently interesting to others _merely_ that I have an > opinion without making it also, y'know, interesting. It's a > Janteloven thing, as I'm sure you know. ;-> ..aye. But I must admit I didn't believe democracy would fall apart this fast. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..really OT, was: Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 15:59:35 +, Miroslav wrote in message <20170716155935.47kq33o2s5zsbvai@gdOv>: > On 170716-12:10+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > ..sissy. ;o) > > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web > > http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD > > I don't see how the stop and search on pilots can be blamed straight > on Trump. ..that was on Obama's watch. It's really the same old "9/11"-regime. > The drone assassinations, however, can be put squarely on Obama, and > those really escalated during his presidency. Obama really was the > Drone President... Due to Devuan taking huge share of my time, I have > not followed how Trump fares in the use of drones, nor if the > President's approval is still needed for drone assassinations. > > Lots of things to object to Trump, but would Hillary really have been > the better choice? ..nope, but Bernie would have been a very good POTUS. > For us Croats, I have to say it was a good thing, that our President > Kolinda, and we are just 4 1/2 million of people, was about the main > organizer for the meeting of Visegrád Group, in Poland, a week or so > ago, where President Trump participated. I was proud. Would have been > proud if it had been President Hillary instead, equally proud... I > respect American President as an institution. > > Still, I don't think Trump is so very bad. > > Also I say openly: NATO is better than Russia. And Russia has no > right to occupy Ukraine, which they continue to do. But... Putin is a > killer, and a neocommunist... wants to revive the Soviet Empire... ...by putting his puppets in place in governments 'n parliaments, not just in the Amerikainski Sovetski Soyus, we have Putin's boys 'n gals elected into parliament and government in Norway too, and probably all over NATO membership states. > Trump squarely made Assad the Syrian president understand that gas > attacks on civilian population won't be tollerated by launching > precision strikes ..wrong, wrong, unless he made an effort to not harm anything of value to Assad 'n Putin. All he managed to do was get himself and Ivanka on record as war criminals. > on Syrian military facilities. I approved of that > move, months ago now. I still praise it. Obama never had the guts for > such an action. Obama failed in that region, and Syria made Russia's > military prowess come to the fore... (Well there's more to it, but it > would be too complex to recount.) And now it's even worse with the > dictator in Turkey making pacts with Russia... > > Back to Europe. We, the non-populous nations, depend on great forces, > and on bigger players in Europe, i.e. the United States and other > world superpowers and the leaders of most populous nations of Europe: > Germany, France, Great Britain and others. > > It was nice to see how the slaughter of Kosovo Albanians by Serbian > military and paramilitary was stopped by American intervention. That > was a justified military action, by the American military and allies. > I think the bombing of Belgrade, however, was an excess, and > shouldn't have happened... ..not to mention the Norwegian "led" Genocide on the "Krajina Serbs." Thorvald Stoltenberg (NATO-Jens' father) was negotiating peace, but he was also the Supreme Commander of UNPROFOR, where he Failed his Command and Failed to Act under Articles 87 and 86 of the Protocol Additional I of 1977 to the 4 Geneva Conventions of 1949, by not trying to stop the Croat mass deportation of ethnic Serbs. He has 2 stories on this, one in his book "De 1000 dagene" where he denies advance knowledge of Croat plans, and another in his sworn testemony to the Lundkommisjonen on Norwegian secret services, where he admits under oath, said advance knowledge. ..on June 7th 1997 I wrote Premier Thorbjørn Jagland advicing him he would wanna fix this war crime before the elections, and, IME, Ed Snowden proved _much_ wiser by First Running, Then Get Published. > The saddest thing in recent history was the genocide of Bosnian > Muslims, again by Serbian forces, was allowed to go on effectively > before the eyes of the world, in Srebrenica in mid July 1995. It was > a genocide de facto allowed by world powers of the day. > > But when it comes to military vs civilian lives... The generals and > the nation leaders (of the Dutch in this case, and of the French in > the other case below, just read) will regularly barter a single > soldier of their own's life for thousands of civilians... The life of > any Dutch soldier in Srebrenica, mildly at risk, or of any Fr
Re: [DNG] ..experimental mirror is fixed now?, was: udev replacement
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:13:09 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170718171309.gk15...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 07:06:46PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > error al abrir fichero > > > gpgv: Firmado el mar 18 jul 2017 06:02:23 CDT usando clave RSA ID > > > 541922FB gpgv: Imposible comprobar la firma: clave pública no > > > encontrada Release gpg signature does not verify. > > > [ 23%] Getting: dists/None/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** > > > GET > > > > ..which _should_ be "dists/experimental/main/", and _not_ > > "dists/None/main/"... etc, your script is picking up the > > wrong "None" name instead of "experimental". > > > > No Arnt, there is actually an error in the Release file generated by > dak for experimental, and apparently this mistake bothers debmirror > (but not apt & Co., otherwise we would have noticed this before). It > does not seem to be Ismael's fault. ..ok, we have found a debmirror bug. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Forums: was I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:46:14 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170716054614.gi28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Miroslav Rovis (miro.ro...@croatiafidelis.hr): > > > But pls. people, I don't understand Latin so well... Nor have time > > to study. Already breaking down tired from lots of work with > > polishing my Devuan today... Could you pls. translate. There'll be > > others who would benefit... > > OK, but I'll warn that putting it in a living language makes it seem > like in-your-face polemics rather than a sly antiquarian joke. It > say, in deliberately bad Anglo-leaning Latin: > >'The man in the White House, who is angry and has fake hair, is >dishonourable and a danger to the country.' ..sissy. ;o) https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Sissy+Boy+Traitor%22+OR+%22the+Nepotist+Warrior+Ace%22+OR+%22Flew+So+High+and+Far+he+Missed+Vietnam%22=web http://www.groklaw.net/search.php?query=Sissy+Boy+George=phrase===0=all=0=search http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130618195646575#c1049951 ;oD > > I'm referring to also: > > > > Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > > > Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... ;-3) > > 'Perhaps it will be pleasant to remember these things some day.' > > It's what Aeneas tells his exhausted, shipwrecked followers in > _The Aeneid_, book 1. (Renaud/Ron is quite the wit. I doff my hat.) > > > > Ave atque vale, > > And that is the great poet Gaius Valerius Catullus's famous elegaic > couplet, meaning 'hail and farewell.' > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 13:57:55 +0200, Adam wrote in message <20170723115755.sl7bqpxy6yuqy...@angband.pl>: > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 01:37:04AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 01:12:52 +0200 > > Dragan FOSS <dragan.f...@gmx.com> wrote: > > > > Average yearly income per-capita in Sub-Saharan Africa is $2,041.00 > > per year: > > > > If somebody in Africa manages to cannibalize a few Pentiums, mix and > > match parts to produce a functional computer, and find a way to > > afford the 300 watts it costs to run it for an hour or so a week, > > such a person would be mighty thankful for a good 32 bit Linux. > > At this time, a semi-modern machine doesn't cost anything more, and > has an edge of drastically lower power and support costs, in addition > to being far more capable. > > Restoring old gear is an expensive hobby. Poor kids in Africa can't > afford that. And since they need computers for utilitarian reasons, > hobbies shouldn't be a priority. ..agreed, e.g. Raspberry Pi type hardware is far more useful, off grid they'll need batteries and solar panels or wind mills for 24/7 power. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Please keep 32-bits alive
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 21:22:03 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170724042203.gq7...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult (enrico.weig...@gr13.net): > > > Some more: I'm still running 32bit userland even on 64bit machines, > > to save some memory. Especially for applications that heavily use > > pointers, it does make a notable difference. > > Yes, the fact that x86_64 (and other 64-bit) pointers each chew up 8 > bytes[1] (64 bits) wide, and thereby gobble 2x the RAM, each, > compared to IA32, can be a significant problem in code that uses > pointers a great deal, and is very vexing. This irritation's > inescapable in 64-bit-compiled code, because those pointers need to > be able to hold the address of any valid memory location the CPU can > address, whereas 32-bit pointers can reach 4GB address space (which > seemed impossibly large not so long ago).[2] > > So, yes, IA32 compilation (preferably in an otherwise x86_64 host, as > you're doing) is just the thing for being RAM-thrifty if you don't > need to access TB of RAM and the code is making heavy use of pointers. > > Wikipedia's article on 64-bit computing says: > > The main disadvantage of 64-bit architectures is that, relative to > 32-bit architectures, the same data occupies more space in memory > (due to longer pointers and possibly other types, and alignment > padding). This increases the memory requirements of a given process > and can have implications for efficient processor cache use. > Maintaining a partial 32-bit model is one way to handle this, and is > in general reasonably effective. > > So, yay for a partial IA32 model within an x86_64 environment: > smaller pointer-heavy binaries where you need them, but also software > access to up to 8TB physical RAM (and 4 exabytes = 2^64 of virtual > memory) where you don't -- best of both worlds. > > And, don't forget, year 2038 effects beckon, starting long before > 2038. > > > [1] There are three distinct data-type models for 64-bit: ILP64, > LLP64, and LP64. But all have 8-byte pointers. The differences lie > in lengths of non-pointer data types. > > [2] What really changed my mind about this is VM technology. Ability > to have the production server host in one VM and the beta in another, > and the small host OS doing security & other monitoring of both, is > cool. _______ ..one possible fix: https://wiki.debian.org/X32Port minus systemd -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] reportbug is the stable repository
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 22:21:53 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20170722022153.gb8...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:45:23AM -0400, Boruch Baum wrote: > > > The bad news is that if this is the only step I take, "apt-get" will > > want to upgrade 1248 packages (it looks more impressive when I > > write it out . . One Thousand, Two Hundred and Forty Eight > > packages) with a download size of 608 Mb. > > There really needs to be a way of doing this in a staged manner, > i.e., not all at once, for those who don't have huge disk space > available. ..there is, use aptitude, "u" to update, "U" to upgrade, ":" to pick stuff to hold back until "next time." -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 22:17:09 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20170722021709.ga8...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 08:14:43PM -0500, John Morris wrote: > > On Fri, 2017-07-21 at 16:25 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > > > Dragan FOSS wrote: > > > >I think it's best to drop 32-bit support at all... it's such a > > > >waste of time and resources. > > > > > > > > > As long as you're pruning, kill x64 as well, because the majority > > > of computers sold are using ARM architecture and run Android or > > > iOS. > > > > I think you are joking, but it helps not to confuse the three big > > forks > > > > 1. Linux / GNU / X, this is the fork Devuan is on and few Devuan > > installs are on ARM. At this late date, there probably aren't many > > on x86_32 either. Which is why discussion of eliminating a big > > chunk or archive space and compile time will continue to recur > > until eventually nobody can muster a good argument for continuing. > > I'm still on a 32-bit Intel machine, and given an OS with the > fficiency of Devuan, it's perfectly capable of doing what I need. > Does this count as an x86_32? If so, I'd be happy with Devuan > keeping it for a long time yet. If not, I'd like to know what it > *does* count as. > > hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ uname -a > Linux notlookedfor 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.43-2 > (2017-04-30) i686 GNU/Linux > hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ > > I'm *thinking* of upgrading, butt until I can get a better laptop > that doesn't have significant vulnerabilities baked into the > *hardware*, I'd rather keep using what I've got. > > -- hendrik ..aaand, it will run nicely on any on these once they get the manpower they need to get restarted, which BTW is a nice way to grab those guys over here to Devuan. From https://www.debian.org/ports/: hurd-i386 32-bit PC (i386)The GNU Hurd is a new operating system being put together by the GNU group. Debian GNU/Hurd is going to be one (possibly the first) GNU OS. The current project is founded on the i386 architecture. in progress kfreebsd-amd64 64-bit PC (amd64) First officially released with Debian 6.0 as a technology preview and the first non-Linux port released by Debian. Port of the Debian GNU system to the kernel of FreeBSD. Is no longer part of the official release since Debian 8. in progress kfreebsd-i386 32-bit PC (i386)First officially released with Debian 6.0 as a technology preview and the first non-Linux port released by Debian. Port of the Debian GNU system to the kernel of FreeBSD. Is no longer part of the official release since Debian 8. in progress netbsd-i386 32-bit PC (i386)A port of the Debian operating system, complete with apt, dpkg, and GNU userland, to the NetBSD kernel. The port, never released, has been abandoned. dead x32 64-bit PC with 32-bit pointers X32 is an ABI for amd64/x86_64 CPUs using 32-bit pointers. The idea is to combine the larger register set of x86_64 with the smaller memory and cache footprint resulting from 32-bit pointers. in progress ..until they start putting systemd on the above, all we need to do, is mirror these archs just like any standard Debian mirror. A benefit we will gain, is source code insight into how software is modified to run on systemd while it remains viably available for e.g. hurd-i386. ..such sneaky systemd things will be visible to these developers in package source or in compiler source or both. All we need to do to win them over to us, is provide a viable alternative. ..once Debian does try put systemd on any of these archs, nothing is lost, and we'll have a much better starting point for our Devuan arch ports than we had for our first archs. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] WARNING! DO NOT APT-GET UPDATE/UPGRADE ON ASCII
On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 17:06:18 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170628160618.gu14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:50:07AM -0400, zap wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > just wondered, Is aptitude upgrade safe? > > > > No, it was not safe. If you have upgraded your Devuan Ascii (testing) > system in the last 24 hours, using whatever mean (apt-get, apt, > aptitude, synaptic, etc.) you might have erroneously got packages from > the new Debian testing (Buster). If this is the case, please read the > other email I just sent, since it contains an explanation of how you > can downgrade to ascii. ..if apt-get upgrade fails you, aptitude upgrade might work and vice versa, they solve package conflicts differently. Safely? See above. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] WARNING! DO NOT APT-GET UPDATE/UPGRADE ON ASCII
On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:59:05 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20170628195905.ga...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 07:58:13PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > ..if apt-get upgrade fails you, aptitude upgrade might work and > > vice versa, they solve package conflicts differently. > > Safely? See above. ;o) > > That's not the problem. aptitude and apt-get use the same > repositories. > > The problem is that at the moment, ascii contains the wrong > packages. Packages you amost certainly don't want to install. > > As far as I can tell at the moment, they might even require systemd. ..correct, that messy clean-up we're facing is why I mention the fact that apt-get and aptitude solve package conflicts differently, that difference may come handy when you get stuck solving dependency conflicts using one of the 2, trying the other tool often (but not always) fixed my problems. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan packages explorer
On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 08:17:14 -0400, Ismael wrote in message <e11adb85261b4c5b86f2a2fa8c27c...@natio.co.cu>: > First of all, excuse my little knowledge of the subject. > > The next site is not what you are asking for? > http://packages.devuan.gatuno.mx/ ..you would need to drop the Debian graphics and use ours, and, our jessie is "jessie (1.0)", while Debian's Jessie is "(8.8)", or "Acht-Acht" in these Trumpian times -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues
On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 > Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> ha scritto: > > > Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > > > And today you should always encrypt your discs. > > > > I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to > > encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) > > passwords. But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything. > > Valid reasons to encrypt /usr include: > > 1) /usr resides on the same partition as / and/or /home (trivial > case); 2) protecting its files from being tampered with when the > device is offline; > 3) making harder to someone who can access your > offline HD understand which partition is /, or /usr or /home, so that > the attacker will have to try to decrypt them all; > 4) you put stuff in /usr/local that might contain > keys/passwords/sensitive information that would better be kept > protected. ..if you wanna protect /usr/local, chop that off /usr and encrypt, mount etc them all as you damned please. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 14:21:04 -0400, zap wrote in message <4ab545b8-d9ba-e8d4-df1e-fa8a0c73e...@posteo.de>: > On 07/02/2017 11:09 AM, Svante Signell wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to > > the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private > > mail? > > Well, I think I received them, unless the ones you sent got shrunk. ;) ..one easy way to make sure, is list those attached file's checksums, so chey can be chk'ed with e.g. md5sum -c upwards, for "the works", 'aptitude install jacksum' and play around. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues
On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 02:00:22 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170703020022.7ede7fb3@ayu>: > On Mon, 3 Jul at 2017 01:03:13 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no> wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message > > <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > > > >> Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 > >> Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> ha scritto: > >> > >>> Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > >>> > And today you should always encrypt your discs. > >>> > >>> I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to > >>> encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already > >>> encrypted) passwords. But definitely there is no reason to > >>> encrypt everything. > >> > >> Valid reasons to encrypt /usr include: > >> > >> 1) /usr resides on the same partition as / and/or /home (trivial > >> case); 2) protecting its files from being tampered with when the > >> device is offline; > >> 3) making harder to someone who can access your > >> offline HD understand which partition is /, or /usr or /home, so > >> that the attacker will have to try to decrypt them all; > >> 4) you put stuff in /usr/local that might contain > >> keys/passwords/sensitive information that would better be kept > >> protected. > > > > ..if you wanna protect /usr/local, chop that off /usr and > > encrypt, mount etc them all as you damned please. > > /usr/local was standardized for a reason. You might do as you like > on your personal PC, maybe you're not as free to do the same on your > company's server/workstation. ..a corner case might be company centralized maintenance on hardware where you mount your handy encrypted /usr/local, /opt, /home/arnt etc while keeping the company un-encrypted hardware accessible for e.g. airport etc 'Securitate.' > You might have /opt bind-mounted > on /usr/local, and have lots of stuff there you don't want to peruse > to see if any of it would better be kept away from prying eyes (like > VM images). What specific reasons do you have *not* to encrypt /usr > in a machine that has / and /home encrypted? What do you gain by > that? ..not much, all valid reasons to encrypt. On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 02:20:22 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170703022022.2e7ff012@ayu>: > I forgot to mention: leaking your collection of installed software > is sometimes itself leaking personal and possibly sensitive > information about yourself and your business, for the same reasons > TCP/IP traffic metadata is important in it's own right. ..precisely, can easily be done by e.g. airport etc 'Securitate' or by your own network traffic. > Plus, if you travel extensively, you might not know if the place > you're traveling into has enacted some restrictions on the kind of > software you are allowed to own and run. ..precisely, is why you research upfront and plan ahead, even for tin foil kinda stuff ... oh wait, who's #45? ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A problem with a license
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:10:34 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170705121034.0040505a@pulvis.localnet>: > On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 at 10:56:45 +0100 > KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> wrote: > > [...] > > > Please, please, please: let's avoid to tranform this in a flame. The > > thing is that Devuan/main should include only free-software, and > > that clause makes the package non-compliant with the basic freedom > > 0. We would like suggestions as of whether the clause should be > > removed or the package should go in Devuan/non-free (I can't see > > any other5B alternative). > > The best thing that could happen is, of course, that the software > authors changed the licence terms or at least that we received > special permission to redistribute the software in Devuan under > different terms. Let's try, hopefully they are reasonable people and > will prefer having their software more widely circulated and used. ..this can be done (3) 2 ways, toss it into non-free (for now), and get a compatible dual license for Devuan and other non-systemd distros. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd: Once again the "not-a-bug" attitude, this time regarding a security issue
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:16:16 +0200, Jaromil wrote in message <20170706091616.tpkpampjaxc5ni64@reflex>: > On Thu, 06 Jul 2017, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:36:51 +0200, Martin wrote in message > > > > I read in german Linux-Magazin that KDE Plasma basically works in > > > Devuan Jessie… > > > > ...aand, I run it with vdev-0.1.2. ;o) > > > I am impressed. ..at my stupid luck? ;o) ..all I did, was add experimental to my jessie lines in /etc/apt/sources.list and ran aptitude to install vdev-0.1.2, kde and plasma I installed several weeks ago. No ascii nor ceres lines. ..then I added the TDE lines and installed "all" TDE packages, and had _no_ errors AFAIR. Still running kde+plasma because I haven't gotten around to reboot to try the new kernel nor TDE I installed one or 2 weeks ago... stability even on chromium-browser-on-tor is totally in the stupid luck class. ;oD > do you think we can build an ASCII image with vdev? ..yes. Without some hard work? Now _that_ is _another_ question. ;o) I dunno, all I can say, is Try it. ;o) > can you brief us about any blockers you see for its adoption? ..only Debian's hidden-away traps in their .debs, which I only _guess_ would be there, based on my experience with banana republic politics. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Six weeks of Devuan Popularity Contest
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:19:01 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170706121901.gr15...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > DR D1Rs, > > just a quick report on the activity of http://popcon.devuan.org six > weeks after it was put online. > > At the moment, it seems like we have just below 1300 active > submissions, and the number increases on average by about 20/30 new > submissions per day. > > If we consider that the popularity contest is *disabled* by default, > and that it is normally not enabled by admins on server installations, > then we can probably assume that those 1300 units represent between 5% > and 20% of the overall number of Devuan installations, which would > correspond to an estimate between 6K-25K Devuan machines in total. > > To put things in perspective: > > 1) the current popcon numbers for Debian (jessie + stretch) are in the > region of 150K, so a first rough conclusion is that Devuan has about > 1% of the use-base of Debian. > > 2) The total Debian user-base has remained almost stable in the last > four years. To grow at the same pace of Devuan, Debian should count > something like 2K-3K new installations per day, which would be about > one order of magnitude larger than the observed growth in Debian > popcon. > > In conclusion: these numbers have overall little significance > _per_se_. As with any statistics, we can speculate over them as > much or little as we want, but they clearly suggest that the Devuan > community is growing at a steady pace. This is yet another reason why > Devuan cannot afford to fail ;) ..we only have amd64, i386, arm64 and "armhf", what happens if we add x32, hurd-i386, kfreebsd-i386 and kfreebsd-amd64 etc "in progress" architectures? (Other than me keeping hurd-i386 and converting my debian lan mirror to a devuan mirror) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:09:49 +, Miroslav wrote in message <20170627120949.wyhvph3uxrrpxhtr@gdOv>: > On 170627-11:06+0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:56:24 -0400, zap wrote in message > > <505f058b-0fe3-16b2-157d-352d4d56b...@posteo.de>: > > > > > how does one remove that package without removing anything else? > > > > > > > > > I mean how do you remove it from being depended on by nearly > > > every bit of software... > > > > > > > > > I want to install openrc so that is why I ask... > > > > ..there's hope, it would take holding the systemd fanbois > > to the same standards as the 'clowns' at grsecurity... > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/26/linus_torvalds_slams_pure_garbage_from_clowns_at_grsecurity/ > > > > Comparing grsecurity to systemd? That's like valuing true gold the > same as cellophane. > > Heads, which is one of the marvelous thing that happened in FOSS > lately, and it happened in the Devuan realm of OSes, remains, on top > of completely free, secured with grsecurity, and not via the Schmoog > underhanded ripoff of grsecurity code... > > Paid access to test patches > https://forums.grsecurity.net/viewtopic.php?f=3=4699#p17127 > ( > the recent post by Bradley Spengler, spender, the inventor of > grsecurity; who is truthful, and together with his anonymous friend > who goes by the pseudonym PaX Team, but I strongly believe, judging > by communication with them, that he is just one person... actually I > also read what spender wrote somewhere to that effect... > ...[and together with] PaX Team, they kept fixing the kernel, fixing > all the security holes that Mr Linux wouldn't care about, because of > his "all bugs are just bugs", security and other, attitude, and > worse... In that recent post Bradley Spengler, a developer whom I > trust, openly states, and all facts, all that has happened with the > code, on that KSPP, serves as confirmation to his words... He openly > states: > > Google made the choice to engage in underhanded competition against > > us with our own code. > ) > > ...[Heads remains secured with grsecurity and not via the Schmoog's > underhanded ripoff of grsecurity code] which they pay people to, > essentially, steal from grsecurity, precisely by means of the KSPP > (Kernal Self Protection Project or so)... > > But [Heads remains secured with grsecurity] via the > baton-passed-and-firmly-held and grsecurity code honestly > maintained... > > On grsec and status of heads > https://heads.dyne.org/news/2017/04/on-grsec.html > > which page should be updated with a link to minipli github page... > just as the more up-to-date Heads 0.3 announcement says: > > https://heads.dyne.org/news/2017/06/release-03.html > which points at: > https://github.com/minipli/linux-unofficial_grsec/ > > ...and so Heads remains secured with grsecurity that appears to me > well maintained for kernel 4.9 (but although I may work thoroughly, I > work very slowly as well... haven't checked the latest there yet). > > And Heads is gold, as well as the gold: grsecurity (along with purely > free software) that it uses. Systemd is a very-bad ware, it is some > spyware-enabler, and other bad things it is, as all poetterware is. > > Just as Linux governed by the Schmoog, it that is what the future > holds for us, will become as intrusion-enabler as the Schmoog's own > Chrome is... Secure, yes: secure, but for the stinking Google to be > the sole one intruder to whoever uses Chrome/Chromium. Little hacker > fish pretty much out, only the shark Schmoog controling you! > > Danger greater than we think! > > Linus, the kernel should be taken away from you! > > You've already tried to give it over to NSA, back when you > accomodated for SELinux... > ( > Developer Raps Linux Security > http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/39565.html > ) > ...but grsecurity saved us back then! And SELinux is little if any > worth by this day... > > And now you've been giving it over to the Scmoog! Who is going to > save us this time when the stinking Google itself has, as, and I'm > citing spender again, when the stinking Google has engaged: > > in underhanded competition against us with our own code > "us" being spender and PaX Team and their few helpers. > > The kernel should be taken away from under the couple Linus-Schmoog! > Great danger there! For your own freedom, tuxian! > > Not the first time that I'm calling for kernel to be taken away from > Linus. See: > > Why is Gentoo not switching to systemd? > https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-998108-postdays-0-po
Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 10:57:33 -0700, Bruce wrote in message <CAK2MWOvRYPJGy6O5qRBrhGx7bmTjjrFWLVwFtNxZx+9gB=w=f...@mail.gmail.com>: > Steve, > > Well, I've fought bigger dragons than this and won. ..ok, link to your list of Microsoft's alleged 235 patents they said we infringed upon in Utah 'n Delaware? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd: Once again the "not-a-bug" attitude, this time regarding a security issue
On Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:36:51 +0200, Martin wrote in message <13758100.4C07cDyKXy@merkaba>: > Hello. > > I am more and more considering finally switching to Devuan for all of > my systems. > > The "not-a-bug" attitude upstream developers, especially Lennart, > show in > > systemd can't handle the process previlege that belongs to user name > startswith number, such as 0day #6237 > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 > > and > > [systemd-devel] Github systemd issue 6237 > https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-July/039154.html > > *again* IMHO is inacceptable for security issues like this. > > I read in german Linux-Magazin that KDE Plasma basically works in > Devuan Jessie… ...aand, I run it with vdev-0.1.2. ;o) > but I am on Debian Unstable with my laptop. And there > seem to be issues with automounting… On my Jessie-Server VM I could > just cross-grade to Devuan Jessie, it was running with sysvinit for a > long time anyway. My VM for the backup is Debian Stretch already. > > Well… maybe I finally arrive at the point where I say goodbye to > Debian and hello to Devuan, at least for the time being. > > Thanks, -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:50:50 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627165050.gu28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > > Heads, which is one of the marvelous thing that happened in FOSS > > lately, and it happened in the Devuan realm of OSes, remains, on top > > of completely free, secured with grsecurity, and not via the Schmoog > > underhanded ripoff of grsecurity code... > > Point of information: Wind River (now a subsidiary of Intel) was also > guilty of the same thing, shipping an old release of grsecurity with > backported patches applied to an old kernel, calling the resulting > commercial product 'Carrier Grade Profile for Wind River Linux' > https://web.archive.org/web/20140521162030/http://www.windriver.com:80/announces/security_carrier_grade_profile/ > (without even acknowledging grsecurity's trademark). > And also VeriFone (according to spender) > https://forums.grsecurity.net/viewtopic.php?f=3=3938=13940#p13940 > > Also the Intel/ARM alliance took grsecurity code without credit. > http://openwall.com/lists/kernel-hardening/2017/05/03/1 ..the GPLs does not require showing BSD-style cred fly-by screens, they (v2, v2-and-later, v3 etc) merely require source code offering etc compliance, or-I-pick-up-my-toys-and-go-home, leaving any and all culprits in criminal violation of copyright law, which may be just why Microsoft spent around US $4Billion over 11 years on proxy litigation in Utah and Delaware courts to try (get away from failing to) defeat the GPLv2, if I can believe my own estimate from my http://groklaw.net experience. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:19:50 +0200, metux IT consult wrote in message <a37858a2-d3c5-c206-763e-2f0acc07b...@gr13.net>: > On 27.06.2017 11:06, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > ..there's hope, it would take holding the systemd fanbois > > to the same standards as the 'clowns' at grsecurity... > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/26/linus_torvalds_slams_pure_garbage_from_clowns_at_grsecurity/ > > wait a second - these grsecurity folks are *selling* kernel patches ? > how is that compatible w/ the gpl ? ..selling=distribution, perfectly legal under the GPLs, provided you comply to all terms of the relevant GPLs. ..if you own copyright, you can even dual license it. ..now, if you e.g. add extra contractual conditions that deny anyone rights they should enjoy under copyright law or under any GPL version, you may find yourself in trouble. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] reverse-engineering systemd is fighting strategic incompetence.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:26:46 -0700, Bruce wrote in message
Re: [DNG] grsecurity ripoff by Google, with Linus' approval WAS: I have a question about libsystemd0 in devuan ascii,
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:43:29 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170627204329.gw28...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > > > ..the GPLs does not require showing BSD-style cred fly-by screens, > > FWIW, the grsecurity/PaX people had no such aspirations. You seem to > have misstated their complaint. ..nope, I stated my understanding of the GPLs and my understanding of their complaint. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Amprolla Network Outage
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:42:09 +0200, Evilham wrote in message <c7c0e84b-d50a-4b75-763a-e0f29dc5b...@evilham.com>: > Dear Linux, > > Am 04/07/2017 um 21:41 schrieb Linux O'Beardly: > > We are currently experiencing a network outage that has left > > amprolla.devuan.org <http://amprolla.devuan.org> unreachable. I've > > spoken to the ISP and they stated the issue should be resolved > > within the next 30 minutes, by 16:08 US EDT. Please feel free to > > reach out if the issue persists past this time. > > As of now (19.30 UTC) Amprolla is reachable from a network level (e.g. > ping works) but not from a protocol one. > That means: > - apt-get update fails when trying to reach amprolla.devuan.org > - HTTP on amprolla.devuan.org times out > - its SSH service does not reply for auth on port 22 (may be by > design) > > One possible reason is that the software does not handle well network > outages and is in an unkown state since yesterday (therefore needing a > restart). > > Could someone take a look at it? ..I have amprolla.devuan.org up right now at 50-240-103-34-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. and mirror.ntmm.org up at 89.253.70.139, but packages.devuan.org is down for aptitude, it does respond to ping at 46.105.191.77 and responds fine to web browsers. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..vdev input in X, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:08:48 +1000, Ralph wrote in message <2fab2208-e0dc-27f5-dd3d-f9d7156bb...@gmail.com>: > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 11:18: > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:49:06 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > > <be1216c5-c463-a069-b1e4-f405ee658...@gmail.com>: > > > >> > >> Arnt Karlsen wrote on 24/04/17 09:13: > >>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:54:07 +0200, Arnt wrote in message > >>> <20170419185407.228cd...@nb6.lan>: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:21:53 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > >>>> <d3a264ce-a767-dffc-845d-d1eb26027...@gmail.com>: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Arnt Karlsen wrote on 19/04/17 23:17: > >>>>> [cut] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ...wiped udev off my box and wound up with a box that boots oh > >>>>>> soo fine until it tries to load my new vdev > >>>>>> initrd.img-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64 ...am I the first one here to try > >>>>>> this on a rt kernel? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..recovery ideas? Do we have any vdev live-cd? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..last time I did this stunt, I chrooted in off a Knoppix? iso, > >>>>>> I have memdisk and a few iso links handy in /boot, and Debian's > >>>>>> Sid vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-amd64, vmlinuz-4.8.0-2-rt-amd64 and > >>>>>> vmlinuz-4.9.0-1-rt-amd64 with systemd-udev initrd's, but they > >>>>>> all depend on a working install of udev AFAIK, and I'd prefer > >>>>>> pushing thru with vdev rather than going back to udev. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..has anyone here tried downgrading to Debian Wheezy era udev? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..looking for recovery live-cd idea starting points, I came > >>>>>> across 32-bit > >>>>>> https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/zz02debiandogwheezy.html > >>>>>> which could work both as a starting point for a live-cd and as > >>>>>> a starting point for an upgrade path for stuck Debian Wheezy > >>>>>> people via "Devuan-0.x Wheezy" to current Devuan-1.x Jessie. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..according to https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/ "DebianDog > >>>>>> is very small Debian Live CD shaped to look and act like Puppy > >>>>>> Linux. Debian structure and Debian behaviour are untouched and > >>>>>> Debian documentation is 100% valid for DebianDog. You have > >>>>>> access to all debian repositories using apt-get or synaptic.", > >>>>>> creating "Devuan-0.x Wheezy Live-CD" etc is trivial, toss their > >>>>>> repos for ours, update, upgrade and remaster, the 64-bit > >>>>>> version likely needs to be built off deb-src lines. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ..but first comes the classic chicken-and-egg 64 bit recovery > >>>>>> I need now. ;o) > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not sure it helps you, but I've made a vdev variant of most > >>>>> recent devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live.iso (time stamped > >>>>> 2017-Mar-27 20:57) that I got from the official mirror > >>>>> http://mirror.sfo12.us.leaseweb.net/devuan/ > >>>>> > >>>>> I purged a couple of things from it, then added and installed > >>>>> "my" vdev_0.1.1_amd64.deb, and made a refractasnapshot of this, > >>>>> into devuan_jessie_RC_amd64_minimal_live_vdev.iso, which is > >>>>> downloadable at https://www.uk.realsam.co.uk/files/devuan/ > >>>>> > >>>>> It boots with vdev rather than udev, and udev remains installed, > >>>>> though with all its "competing" files tucked away. As you might > >>>>> know, this vdev packaging is different from aitor's packaging > >>>>> for gnuinos by not declaring a udev competition, but rather > >>>>> attempting to manage a dynamic choice of which one is in use. > >>>>> The software is otherwise the same, I believe. > >>>> > >>>> ..thanks, we shall find out. ;o) > >>> > >>> ..no
Re: [DNG] ..vdev input in X, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:52:58 +1000, Ralph wrote in message <d67b7404-6f6b-0cff-bca3-a4582ab9d...@gmail.com>: > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 17:26: > > On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:08:48 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > > <2fab2208-e0dc-27f5-dd3d-f9d7156bb...@gmail.com>: > > > >> > >> > >> Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 11:18: > >>> [cut] > >> > >> I believe keyboard and mouse needs the "evdev" module to be loaded > >> before something; certainly before starting X. > > > > ..aye: root@box:~# lsmod |grep evdev > > evdev 24576 26 > > root@box:~# lsmod |grep vdev |grep -v evdev > > root@box:~# lsmod |grep dev |grep -v evdev > > input_polldev 16384 1 lis3lv02d > > ipmi_devintf 20480 0 > > ipmi_msghandler49152 3 > > ipmi_devintf,ipmi_poweroff,ipmi_watchdog ppdev > > 20480 0 parport49152 3 lp,parport_pc,ppdev > > videodev 180224 3 > > uvcvideo,videobuf2_core,videobuf2_v4l2 media > > 40960 2 uvcvideo,videodev joydev 20480 0 > > root@box:~# > > Yeah, you would do "lsmod | grep -w evdev" only, and apparently it's > loaded, so probably not the issue. You can check inside initrd image > that "evdev" is mentioned in the "conf/modules" file to ensure/verify > that it happens early enough. > > Note that "vdev" itself is not a module, but is present in a number > of pre-pivot init scripts, the vdevd daemon, and its configuration > files. The vdevd daemon is run twice: once pre-pivot, then that one > is killed and another is started via the /etc/init.d/vdev script. > > >> [cut] > > Perhaps /var/log/Xorg.0.log tells something. ..3 of them here: https://pastebin.com/qsNGW8G0 > And I have this vague > memory of being in that same situation, but I can't remember the > resolution. > > Ralph. ..aye, had I remembered what I did last time around... ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..vdev input in X, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 23:06:53 +1000, Ralph wrote in message <039e14e4-8f63-878a-5878-0e01bcb57...@gmail.com>: > > > Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 22:01: > > On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:52:58 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > > <d67b7404-6f6b-0cff-bca3-a4582ab9d...@gmail.com>: > > > >> > >> > >> Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 17:26: > >>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:08:48 +1000, Ralph wrote in message > >>> <2fab2208-e0dc-27f5-dd3d-f9d7156bb...@gmail.com>: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Arnt Karlsen wrote on 26/04/17 11:18: > >>>>> [cut] > >>>> > >>>> I believe keyboard and mouse needs the "evdev" module to be > >>>> loaded before something; certainly before starting X. > >>> > >>> ..aye: root@box:~# lsmod |grep evdev > >>> evdev 24576 26 > >>> root@box:~# lsmod |grep vdev |grep -v evdev > >>> root@box:~# lsmod |grep dev |grep -v evdev > >>> input_polldev 16384 1 lis3lv02d > >>> ipmi_devintf 20480 0 > >>> ipmi_msghandler49152 3 > >>> ipmi_devintf,ipmi_poweroff,ipmi_watchdog ppdev > >>> 20480 0 parport49152 3 lp,parport_pc,ppdev > >>> videodev 180224 3 > >>> uvcvideo,videobuf2_core,videobuf2_v4l2 media > >>> 40960 2 uvcvideo,videodev joydev 20480 0 > >>> root@box:~# > >> > >> Yeah, you would do "lsmod | grep -w evdev" only, and apparently > >> it's loaded, so probably not the issue. You can check inside > >> initrd image that "evdev" is mentioned in the "conf/modules" file > >> to ensure/verify that it happens early enough. > >> > >> Note that "vdev" itself is not a module, but is present in a number > >> of pre-pivot init scripts, the vdevd daemon, and its configuration > >> files. The vdevd daemon is run twice: once pre-pivot, then that one > >> is killed and another is started via the /etc/init.d/vdev script. > >> > >>>> [cut] > >> > >> Perhaps /var/log/Xorg.0.log tells something. > > > > ..3 of them here: https://pastebin.com/qsNGW8G0 > > > >> And I have this vague > >> memory of being in that same situation, but I can't remember the > >> resolution. > >> > >> Ralph. > > > > ..aye, had I remembered what I did last time around... ;oD > > > > Right. My guess from those is in fact that evdev is not loaded early > enough, because your logs don't mention it at all. I think the story > is that evdev needs to be loaded to handle "device events" from vdev > when it populates /dev/input, which it does at its pre-pivot run. > Loading it later (perhaps automatically by the start of X) is of > little help, because there are no new device events. > > You can test that theory manually by the following sequence: > # kill $(cat /run/vdev/vdevd.pif) > # rm -r /dev/input && /etc/init.d/vdev start > > NOTE THOUGH that "rm -r /dev/input" may well kill your console input > instead, and you might need to power-toggle to recover. ..we'll see about that, I have a ssh session handy. ;o) > BUT, it's also believable (to me) that the restart of vdev after > having removed all /dev/input/* entries will cause it to re-populate > /dev/input, and now (since evdev has been loaded) it should also > tickle evdev usefully. By that idea it should recover any lost > console input as well as setting up evdev for the X input. > > In either case, you need to make sure that evdev is indeed in the > "conf/modules" list in the initrd image, which is how it's loaded. ..no mention of it down my /etc/initramfs-tools/ tree, and, it should have been in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/modules or in e.g. /usr/share/initramfs-tools/modules.d/modules.vdev ? ..aaand, my initrd.img-4.9.0-2-rt-amd64 played tough, so more torture ideas were needed, Osamu Aoki's getinitramfs script from Debian's #790095 squeezed out my trashed cpio archive, which contains evdev and vdev and a suspect "/conf/modules" with no mention of neither vdev nor evdev. But it works and I wanna know how and why. ;oD > If > it's not already in there, your initrd is likely to be a remnant > from your Gnuinos' vdev experiments, or at least, not an initrd > including the Devuan's vdev scripting. In that case, a --reinstall > could do wonders. > > Ralph. ..could, indeed. ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..setnet.sh, wicd and heads-0.2 scorn, was:..vdev box recovery ideas?
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:24:19 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170424152419.gu14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 05:10:35PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > ..we don't warn them before we drop them online on wired networks > > with heads-0.2. > > The vdev iso does this right though, it stays offline until you > > e.g. run setnet.sh. > > > > ..I agree this is a policy issue, and we should set it so at least > > clueless heads-0.2 etc people stay offline until they change their > > passwords away from the default ones. > > > > So this should be implemented by the distro policy, e.g. in heads, not > in setnet or wicd... ..will that distro policy survive when clueless people install non-distro .debs or tarballs? > [cut] > > > > > ..I have the Knowledge, but still found myself Automagically Online > > with heads-0.2's Default Passwords, Because I Forgot I still had the > > network wire plugged in on boot-up. I'm just a human who err. ;o) > > In my case, this endpoint security breach was no problem. > > But that same blunder could kill any needy heads user. > > > > It would be sufficient to deny ssh login with password, which I > believe is already the default in heads. Or to disable sshd by > default, which is unnecessary if the former holds. ..there are many other ways to attack a box online, and most bad guys go after the weakest point they can find, usually in front of the screen. ;o) > Or maybe I have completely misunderstood what is the "endpoint > security breach" you are referring to. ..the biggest problem for me was getting annoyed by the awesome clunkyness with awesome and zsh, which had me do stupid mistakes by accident. _That_ is an endpoint security problem, just like we believe systemd is an endpoint security problem. ..in both cases we end users get tricked into bad things, the only real difference is, systemd endpoint security is intentional and controlled by _somebody_, while zsh+awesome endpoint security is _accidential_, just because those 2 happen to work ever so great for the heads developers, does not mean those 2 will work as great for me and other whistleblowers. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
