[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-30 06:28, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi all,

the documentation for LibreOffice and OOo is currently created via wiki and the
OOoAuthors.org site (a Plone CMS with a workflow). The finished documentations 
were
currently published on OOoAuthors.org, the wiki and on the OOo-Website.

I wonder, in which way we want to create documentation (howto, books etc.) for
LibreOffice. Should we do that on the wiki or should we set up a framework (a 
CMS
with a special workflow) at one of our resources.

If we want to create documentation inside our resources at LibreOffice.org, we 
need
to decide first two things:

Did we need a special framework for this work and should this framework be a 
wiki or
a CMS with a dedicated workflow.

Parallel to this we had to collect the features of the framework, that are 
essential
and nice to have.

Regards,
Andreas


Hi Andreas and documentation team:

The plan is to eventually migrate to a Drupal CMS. I have created a 
Drupal site with the Books module that could be used for documentation. 
Anyway have a look see and let me know if you would like some more 
functionality in any of the modules.


You can find the Drupal test-site at:  http://www.parEntreprise.ca

I have created 5 accounts:
Login/pswrds are the same words

LibO1
LibO2
LibO3
LibO4
LibO5

Cheers

Marc

NB. ... PLEASE BE KIND AND REPORT ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SITE OR UNUSUAL 
PROBLEMS.



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-31 16:50, Mark Morin a écrit :



On 10/31/2010 4:43 PM, Andreas Mantke wrote:

Hi Marc

Am Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010, 20:26:35 schrieb Marc Paré:
(...)



You can find the Drupal test-site at:  http://www.parEntreprise.ca



i found it.


I have created 5 accounts:
Login/pswrds are the same words

LibO1
LibO2
LibO3
LibO4
LibO5


I tried to get inside, but there was no success. Maybe i'm a bit sleepy. I 
tried with
user: libO1 and password = user name. The same with libO5.



Cut what he posted i.e. capital L, i,b, capital OH, 1 (LibO1) and paste
into username and password



Just in case anyone else has problems:

login/pswrd
LibO1 / LibO1
LibO2 / LibO2
LibO3 / LibO3
LibO4 / LibO4
LibO5 / LibO5

Just cut and paste as Mark suggested.

Let me know if you think there should be adjustments. This is just a 
test site as Ben Horst is working on the real site. You can let us know 
if you need anything else and I will try to pave the way.


BTW ... Drupal is new to me but I run other CMS sites with the Zikula 
CMS packages. I can still catch on to Drupal installation requirements. :-)


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-31 17:55, Sigrid Carrera a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Am Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:26:35 -0400
schrieb Marc Paré:


Le 2010-10-30 06:28, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi all,



[...]



Hi Andreas and documentation team:

The plan is to eventually migrate to a Drupal CMS. I have created a
Drupal site with the Books module that could be used for
documentation. Anyway have a look see and let me know if you would
like some more functionality in any of the modules.

You can find the Drupal test-site at:  http://www.parEntreprise.ca

I have created 5 accounts:
Login/pswrds are the same words

LibO1
LibO2
LibO3
LibO4
LibO5


I've tried to use your test site. I've tried to create one book page.
The content appears all in one paragraph, I can't get it to show more
than one. I was using the Editor, so there shouldn't be a need to
insert html-tags like  and the like.

Btw, after editing my page, I got the following error message:

warning: strtotime() [function.strtotime]: It is not safe to rely on
the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the
date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In
case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this
warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We
selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead
in /home/french/public_html/parentreprise.ca/modules/node/node.module
on line 854.

And, I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I wasn't able to see the
content, that was created by Andreas. (I used LibO1, and I guess, he
used LibO5).

Sigrid



Thanks Sigrid and Andreas, I'll check it out.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] LibO Test site tweaks

[Marc Paré]

Hi Andreas and Sigrid

I have tweaked the permissions. Could you have a look at these?

Leave me notes and I will try to tweak to exactly what you want.

Marc




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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-31 17:55, Sigrid Carrera a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Am Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:26:35 -0400
schrieb Marc Paré:


Le 2010-10-30 06:28, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi all,



[...]



Hi Andreas and documentation team:

The plan is to eventually migrate to a Drupal CMS. I have created a
Drupal site with the Books module that could be used for
documentation. Anyway have a look see and let me know if you would
like some more functionality in any of the modules.

You can find the Drupal test-site at:  http://www.parEntreprise.ca

I have created 5 accounts:
Login/pswrds are the same words

LibO1
LibO2
LibO3
LibO4
LibO5


I've tried to use your test site. I've tried to create one book page.
The content appears all in one paragraph, I can't get it to show more
than one. I was using the Editor, so there shouldn't be a need to
insert html-tags like  and the like.

Btw, after editing my page, I got the following error message:

warning: strtotime() [function.strtotime]: It is not safe to rely on
the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the
date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In
case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this
warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We
selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead
in /home/french/public_html/parentreprise.ca/modules/node/node.module
on line 854.

And, I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I wasn't able to see the
content, that was created by Andreas. (I used LibO1, and I guess, he
used LibO5).

Sigrid



Hi Sigrid:

I got the same warning as you did and will work it out. You can now see 
all other book submissions. It was a permission thingy.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-31 18:30, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Am Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010, 23:17:59 schrieb Marc Paré:

Le 2010-10-31 17:55, Sigrid Carrera a écrit :

Hi Marc,

(...)


I've tried to use your test site. I've tried to create one book page.
The content appears all in one paragraph, I can't get it to show more
than one. I was using the Editor, so there shouldn't be a need to
insert html-tags like   and the like.

Btw, after editing my page, I got the following error message:

warning: strtotime() [function.strtotime]: It is not safe to rely on
the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the
date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In
case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this
warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We
selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead
in /home/french/public_html/parentreprise.ca/modules/node/node.module
on line 854.

And, I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I wasn't able to see the
content, that was created by Andreas. (I used LibO1, and I guess, he
used LibO5).



that's right. I got the same error. Now i get another message. If i tried to 
work
again with my book, i was informed that another member worked on the document.



Hi, it can all be configured to this. The date warning if fixable ... 
you can just ignore for now. it is Halloween here at the moment and I am 
in the middle of handing out candies to the little monsters. I am not 
that familiar with the workflow, but another member of the Drupal team 
will help out. I will look into this in between "Trick or Treaters"



Sigrid


Hi Sigrid:

I got the same warning as you did and will work it out. You can now see
all other book submissions. It was a permission thingy.


I don't know Drupal well yet, but i think it doesn't work as we used to. The
documentation team need to upload ODT-Documents to the site and send them to a
workflow (from draft to published with some status between them; e.g for "first
review").



I will look into it and see about this. It can be configured to pretty 
well anything.



Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-10-31 18:50, Marc Paré a écrit :

Le 2010-10-31 18:30, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi Marc,

Am Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010, 23:17:59 schrieb Marc Paré:

Le 2010-10-31 17:55, Sigrid Carrera a écrit :

Hi Marc,

(...)


I've tried to use your test site. I've tried to create one book page.
The content appears all in one paragraph, I can't get it to show more
than one. I was using the Editor, so there shouldn't be a need to
insert html-tags like and the like.

Btw, after editing my page, I got the following error message:

warning: strtotime() [function.strtotime]: It is not safe to rely on
the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the
date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In
case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this
warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We
selected 'America/New_York' for 'EDT/-4.0/DST' instead
in /home/french/public_html/parentreprise.ca/modules/node/node.module
on line 854.

And, I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I wasn't able to see the
content, that was created by Andreas. (I used LibO1, and I guess, he
used LibO5).



that's right. I got the same error. Now i get another message. If i
tried to work
again with my book, i was informed that another member worked on the
document.



Hi, it can all be configured to this. The date warning if fixable ...
you can just ignore for now. it is Halloween here at the moment and I am
in the middle of handing out candies to the little monsters. I am not
that familiar with the workflow, but another member of the Drupal team
will help out. I will look into this in between "Trick or Treaters"


Sigrid


Hi Sigrid:

I got the same warning as you did and will work it out. You can now see
all other book submissions. It was a permission thingy.


I don't know Drupal well yet, but i think it doesn't work as we used
to. The
documentation team need to upload ODT-Documents to the site and send
them to a
workflow (from draft to published with some status between them; e.g
for "first
review").



I will look into it and see about this. It can be configured to pretty
well anything.


Marc




Hi Andrea and Sigrid:

Some of the Drupal Website team members will be taking a closer look 
into the IA and hopefully we will have a site for  you to test try and 
give comments on what features that you would like to add.


IMHO, it would be great if a documentation member were to join the 
Drupal team for direct input. We are just at the very start stages of 
organising and will have some ideas coming through soon.


BTW ... Michael Wheatland has just left a note on the website mailist 
re: and IA outline that had been proposed by Benjamin Horst a while ago. 
You could also comment on this as well.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 06:16, Gabriel Gurley a écrit :


IMHO, it would be great if a documentation member were to join the
Drupal team for direct input. We are just at the very start stages of
organising and will have some ideas coming through soon.



Marc,

I would be happy to provide input to the Drupal team, if needed.

- Gabriel



Great Gabriel! We are just at the start of planning out the Drupal site. 
It will be great to get some direction on the Drupal Website Team. So 
should I put you down as a member of the team?


We will have a Wiki up soon.

Thanks again.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 09:28, Gabriel Gurley a écrit :


Great Gabriel! We are just at the start of planning out the Drupal
site. It will be great to get some direction on the Drupal Website
Team. So should I put you down as a member of the team?

We will have a Wiki up soon.



Yes, feel free to do so. As soon as some of the infrastructure is ready,
I'll begin to make some documentation available and will be able to
provide the Drupal team some feedback accordingly.

- Gabriel



Thanks. I will get back to you with more information on the group.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 10:45, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi,

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 15:39:11 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
(...)


You can find the new Plone4.0.1-Instance here:
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:9080/LOTest/

I created a first user:
LOTest1
with the user as pswd.

If there is a need for another user, please give me a ping.


I opened up a selfregistration on the site.

Regards,
Andreas


Thanks Andreas

It will be nice to compare both. The Drupal team is just now organising. 
This has given it a little push to get organised and we should be able 
to get more concrete demos soon. Let us know if there are some 
functionalities that you would like to see on the Drupal site and then 
we can compare them to each other. The idea is to reach a consensus as 
to which CMS will do the best job as well as Website dev member support.


Cheers

Marc



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 11:18, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi Marc, *,

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 16:03:31 schrieb Marc Paré:

Le 2010-11-01 10:45, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi,

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 15:39:11 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
(...)


You can find the new Plone4.0.1-Instance here:
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:9080/LOTest/

I created a first user:
LOTest1
with the user as pswd.

If there is a need for another user, please give me a ping.


I opened up a selfregistration on the site.

Regards,
Andreas


Thanks Andreas

It will be nice to compare both. The Drupal team is just now organising.
This has given it a little push to get organised and we should be able
to get more concrete demos soon. Let us know if there are some
functionalities that you would like to see on the Drupal site and then
we can compare them to each other. The idea is to reach a consensus as
to which CMS will do the best job as well as Website dev member support.


i hope, we can get more of the members on this list, that are writing and 
editing
documentation, involved in this evaluation. We need more input about things, 
they
have been used to, and things, they like to see in their future documentation
framework. Maybe the answer is not valid for the documentation team and for the 
needs
of the "rest" documentationfoundation-members. Then we had to decide, if we 
should
propose the use of two CMS. It should be no issue to set a routing from
libreoffice.org to the documentation site, if we need that.

I hope, we get enough input to think about the best way.

Regards,
Andreas



Hi Andreas thanks for the note.

Yes, the communication to the website developers by the documentation 
members should be very open and frank. I think the people who are going 
to put up the Drupal site are very willing to cooperate and to build 
pretty well whatever you wish, if the capability is there.


I think it is too early to propose two cms's but we should take a look 
and be critical or each Plone and Drupal and see if both can match what 
they do and after this see if there is support offered by either one of 
the CMS's to tweak more for what is best to make your jobs easier. Let's 
take a look at both so that the best option/decision be made.


I'll encourage the Drupal developers to join the document mailist to 
make things easier.


BTW ... we are getting more offers for Drupal development help so the 
help will be there. We have a lot of Drupal development people who are 
eager to get to work on the Drupal site.


Would you know if there is a lot of Plone developer help? We should also 
keep this in mind too.




Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 13:25, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi Marc, *,

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 17:08:01 schrieb Marc Paré:
(...)

Hi Andreas thanks for the note.

Yes, the communication to the website developers by the documentation
members should be very open and frank. I think the people who are going
to put up the Drupal site are very willing to cooperate and to build
pretty well whatever you wish, if the capability is there.



that's fine.


I think it is too early to propose two cms's but we should take a look
and be critical or each Plone and Drupal and see if both can match what
they do and after this see if there is support offered by either one of
the CMS's to tweak more for what is best to make your jobs easier. Let's
take a look at both so that the best option/decision be made.

I'll encourage the Drupal developers to join the document mailist to
make things easier.



+1


BTW ... we are getting more offers for Drupal development help so the
help will be there. We have a lot of Drupal development people who are
eager to get to work on the Drupal site.

Would you know if there is a lot of Plone developer help? We should also
keep this in mind too.


I currently know another member from the German team. We managed the 
Authors-Website
together. But I had not asked on the website or other lists yet.

In the meantime I created some more demo-stuff. I build inside the same 
environment a
sub-instance (independent) and a second main instance:

http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:9080/LOTest/LODevelopment
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:9080/Authorstest

The first is with user selfregistration.

Regards,
Andreas


Thanks, I'll take a look. Is there anyway that someone on the 
documentation team to sketch out the workflow. You have developed this 
over a few years and we don't really have a workflow to work with. This 
would help to demistify workflow.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 15:12, Sigrid Carrera a écrit :

Hi Marc,

2010/11/1 Marc Paré:

Le 2010-11-01 13:25, Andreas Mantke a écrit :


Hi Marc, *,

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 17:08:01 schrieb Marc Paré:
(...)




[...]



Thanks, I'll take a look. Is there anyway that someone on the documentation
team to sketch out the workflow. You have developed this over a few years
and we don't really have a workflow to work with. This would help to
demistify workflow.


I'll try to write down our workflow once I'm back home and send the
message to the list. :)
Btw, if you want, you can add me to the development team as well. :)

Sigrid



Thanks Sigrid. It looks like the Drupal site development is about to go 
full-tilt. It would be great if documentation members would start a 
wishlist of features and we will see if these can be implemented.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Need of a documentation framework for LibreOffice?

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-01 15:54, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi Jeff,

first a wish from my side: please don't sent the complete email you are 
answering to
with your post. Because this is a mailinglist, you need only to resent the 
parts,
that are needed to understand your comments.

Am Montag, 1. November 2010, 20:28:30 schrieb Jeff Prater:

Will Drupal's book module be used for the user manuals? Or will they still
be edited in ODF then "uploaded" as the web-based documentation?



I think, we should use for the creation of user manuals the software we are
delivering to our users. We can then use our software to convert the documents 
to PDF
and publish them on the website. Most people don't need the odf-versions.

Regards,
Andreas


Hi Andreas et al:

I am a big proponent of ODF files and as a teacher promote these to my 
student (grades 4-8). It would still be nice to have he .odf versions 
here and there to show people that the creation of these were done on 
LibO in a serious work environment.


But sure, .pdf would be nice.

Jeff -- re: using the Book module for the user manuals, yes we were 
looking into this. You could suggest another module if you had one in mind.


The sky is the limit for everything on Drupal.

Marc
I am also on the Drupal Dev Team


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-02 09:35, Nino Novak a écrit :

On Monday 01 November 2010 18:34, Marc Paré wrote:


Thanks, I'll take a look. Is there anyway that someone on the
documentation team to sketch out the workflow. You have developed
this over a few years and we don't really have a workflow to work
with. This would help to demistify workflow.


Maybe the drawing I created some time ago[1] (according to the
description given from Jean resp. the oooauthors list) can be helpful
for discussion. Feel free to use or change it. Note, that it may be
inaccurate or outdated.

Verbal description (AFAIR):

There are 2 main workflow pathways: A simple one for internal documents
and another one leading to externally published documents.

The internal path only has 2 states: draft&  published internally.

The external path includes 3 different document states:
internal draft,
pending review (which means, submitted for publication),
published externally.

Transitions are, of course, submission, publication, and retraction (the
latter leading back to draft state[?])

L10N: Documents from any state might give rise to translation
activities, which again would open the same (or a similar) workflow for
the (now localized) document.

The main 2 problems in the (folder based) Plone system IMHO was to find
a document (where is the newest version?) and to get a quick overview
over the project state (how many documents are in which state, how many
untranslated documents, etc.). Hence, keeping track over the project
had to be done mainly by a human (i.e. Jean ;-) ).

Also missing are "minor" state informations e.g. "checked for software
version X.Y" or "indexed" or "branding updated" or similar (which is a
minor point but nice2have, and could be done e.g. by tagging).

Nino

[1]
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Nnino/Drafts/Oooauthors_Workflow



Thanks for the help Nino. We will also take a look at this.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-02 10:08, Gabriel Gurley a écrit :




Maybe the drawing I created some time ago[1] (according to the
description given from Jean resp. the oooauthors list) can be helpful
for discussion. Feel free to use or change it. Note, that it may be
inaccurate or outdated.



Nino, thanks for posting this. Not only does this illustrate the
challenges of creating / updating documentation (which others may or may
not be aware of), but it may also give us time to reflect on this
process and see if there are solutions available that could at least
help make it slightly less tedious.

- Gabriel



Yes, and if you leave your comments on this thread, we will look at this 
from the point of view of a Drupal website. We will tailor it to your 
needs. We can make it work the way that you want.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-02 16:23, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 13:03 -0700, Andy Brown wrote:

On Tue Nov 02 2010 11:30:21 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Michael Wheatland wrote:

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:


I really think we are going to need a Dashboard on the website so users
can accommodate their work or interest on their dashboard.

Cheers

Note/Question: Should I cross-list?


Another question that needs to be asked, should we have a document
checkout for the workflow to ensure that only one person is working on
any given document at once?


The current setup has a "flag" that is set for "retract" to show that
someone else is working on the document, though it does not prevent
someone else from downloading.


Also how is community consensus reached as to when a document is ready
for external publishing?
A democratic review system for proposed changes on final review
documents should be pretty easy to setup (Voting API). For an example
on this type of system have a look at Ubuntu Brainstorm, slightly
different concept but could work just as well.

Thanks for the info so far.


There is no community consensus on when a document it ready for external
publishing.  Right now, Jean Weber, the volunteer co-lead makes that
call.  I see no problem with this setup as Jean has the expertise to
make the call, and I have seen no complaints from any other members.  I
do not feel a vote would be in the best interest of the project.

Have a look at the www.oooauthors.org , on the entry page is a dcoument
called  Introducing OOoAuthors  it details how the project works.



Although people seem happy with me acting as "publisher" for the OOo
user guides, it really would be much better if each book had its own
coordinator/editor/publisher, both to spread the work around and so
people could cover for each other if someone is unavailable for more
than a few days (illness, travels, other work or family commitments).

The idea was to have an experienced technical editor (or similar) to act
in the role of coordinator/editor/publisher for each book, but the other
people who filled that role in the early days have moved on to other
things.

BTW, the OOo *developer* docs are not handled through OOoAuthors; those
docs are primarily wiki-based and the processes for review and approval
are different.

--Jean




Hi Jean

Thanks for your answers and all of the other documentation team answers. 
This is really a lot of good information. If only there were enough 
members to do all that we wanted. Let's hope that with LibO more people 
will come on-board for help with the documentation team. I am guessing 
the the US and Canadian have not really been tapped and I am also 
guessing the Mexico is probably the same. Once we organise and market we 
will hopefully get more people on board.


Could you tell me (I am also a the LibO Marketing Team member) how many 
more members you would need at this point, what type of qualifications 
they should have? Ideally, how many would the documentation team need?


Also do you know if the developer docs have a workflow page and could 
you point me to this page?


Thanks again for all of your help. As you can tell the Drupal team 
members are here to listen and to help out. Let us know if there are any 
missing features that the documentation team would like to have or if 
you would like a change in the workflow in the Drupal setup.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-02 23:14, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 20:56 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Jean

Thanks for your answers and all of the other documentation team answers.
This is really a lot of good information. If only there were enough
members to do all that we wanted. Let's hope that with LibO more people
will come on-board for help with the documentation team. I am guessing
the the US and Canadian have not really been tapped and I am also
guessing the Mexico is probably the same. Once we organise and market we
will hopefully get more people on board.


We actually have a lot of volunteers at OOoAuthors, but only 10 or so of
them do much of anything. Most of that 10 do excellent work (mainly
editing and reviewing, but also some writing) but they are not available
as much as is needed.


Could you tell me (I am also a the LibO Marketing Team member) how many
more members you would need at this point, what type of qualifications
they should have? Ideally, how many would the documentation team need?


Ideally, for the user guides we need 5 coordinator/ editor/ publishers
(I don't really know what to call them) -- 1 for each book -- and I
don't know how many doing the writing/ editing/ reviewing/ indexing/
graphics. I would like to see each chapter have someone taking
responsibility for keeping it up to date, though obviously one person
could take on several chapters, either in one book or a series of
related chapters in several books: for example, all the chapters on
customizing or all the chapters on printing&  PDF creation. That would
maximize consistency with the least effort. So... maybe 20 people? (And
I'm not considering other types of docs, such as FAQs, tutorials,
how-tos, etc.)

This page has more info than you want, but one relevant part is the list
of things we do when publishing a chapter or a book. There is a lot of
post-processing related to where the files are put, wikifying them, etc.
Even if much of this can be (semi-)automated, someone has to start the
process and verify that it has completed correctly.
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Producing_User_Guides

I don't care about qualifications as such, but volunteers really need
some basic skills that are often lacking but can be highly developed in
people with no formal quals.


Most volunteers say they will "proofread" but what we need most is
people to do research, write, and critically review/test what others
have written. Cleaning up the English when the facts are wrong isn't
much help.

Much of the work requires good analytical&  problem-solving skills or
else it's done too superficially and misses too many errors, omissions,
and important inconsistencies (such as, does the figure actually show
what the text says it shows? If not, which is wrong? Are the
instructions complete, correct, and written at an appropriate level for
the audience?), not nitpicking over fine points of grammar or word
choice.

Technical writing/ editing/ indexing/ graphics experience can be
valuable but IMO is not necessary. Also, many people with weak skills in
English make excellent reviewers/testers and often good writers (though
they need to be teamed with an editor) -- because they can do research,
organize the material, check facts, etc.




Also do you know if the developer docs have a workflow page and could
you point me to this page?


I don't know, sorry. Someone who has worked in that area might know.
Clayton (the other OOo Docs Co-Lead and an Oracle employee) oversees
that area. I do know the developer docs are wiki-based and are edited by
a variety of people. I have no idea how much updating is needed.

Oh, and there is the Installation Guide, which has sort of been taken
over by OOoAuthors so should probably be considered as another "user
guide" needing someone to be responsible for it.



Hi Jean:

Thanks for the answer. A lot of things to keep track of.

Maybe Carlos could take a close look at your response here and see if 
his list of Drupal modules complement your working needs. It sounds like 
the documentation could all fit in well on the Drupal site. There will 
obviously be a short learning curve and one of the Drupal dev may have 
to lend a hand for a while till the website team has tweaked the site to 
your needs.


I've already come back twice to this response and still can't imagine 
how well you and the documentation team have done with such a load. 
Congrats to all of you.


Marc



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-03 20:38, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 09:20 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

Le 2010-11-02 23:14, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Also do you know if the developer docs have a workflow page and could
you point me to this page?


I don't know, sorry. Someone who has worked in that area might know.
Clayton (the other OOo Docs Co-Lead and an Oracle employee) oversees
that area. I do know the developer docs are wiki-based and are edited by
a variety of people. I have no idea how much updating is needed.


Hi Jean:

Thanks for the answer. A lot of things to keep track of.

Maybe Carlos could take a close look at your response here and see if
his list of Drupal modules complement your working needs. It sounds like
the documentation could all fit in well on the Drupal site. There will
obviously be a short learning curve and one of the Drupal dev may have
to lend a hand for a while till the website team has tweaked the site to
your needs.

I've already come back twice to this response and still can't imagine
how well you and the documentation team have done with such a load.
Congrats to all of you.

Marc



Here is the info on how the developer docs are handled at OOo:

- Clayton monitors the Admin, Basic, and Dev guides for edits.
Depending on who made the edit, he will either just leave the edit as is
(if it's from a known contributor) or validate the edit (if it's from an
unknown contributor).

- With each release of OOo, he reviews the edits on the Basic and Admin
guide. The Dev guide will only get a cursory review due to its size.

- There currently is no publish cycle for the Dev Guide... mainly due
to its size (+/- 2000 A4 pages)

- With each _major_ release, Clayton packages up the Admin Guide and
Basic Guide in ODT and PDF formats - he generally doesn't do this for
point releases. The Admin Guide and Basic guide have, historically, been
translated by Sun (into about 6 other languages), so part of the
release process included preparation work so that the Sun translators
could extract the Wiki content and translate it.

  - The community contributions for the Dev Guide are different from
the contributions for the User Guides. The Dev Guide is more or less
a collection of concepts, not a book you want to read from cover to
cover. In the Dev guide, the contributions come almost 100% from
Sun/Oracle developers. External contributions are rare.

So, there's not much of a release process in place. The nature of the
development documentation is that it's a continuous evolution, and
not so fixed to each specific release of OOo.

--Jean





Thanks for the help with this Jean. We will take a close look at this as 
well. It is always nice to get this type of feedback/information by an 
obviously interested and well-informed individual.


Many thanks again for this information.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-03 20:18, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :



Some comments from my (limited) experience:
wiki ->  odt generally produces a poor result even when a good template
is applied IF the material includes a lot of graphics, as in the user
guides. Much manual tweaking is then required to end up with an
attractive, well laid out odt to convert to pdf.

Starting with odt and then outputting to other formats generally works
well, IF the odt is created using an appropriate template and layout
rules. However, some of the layout in the current OOo books does not
work when output to HTML and some is a bit messy when output to wiki
format. Post-processing may clean it up, but more manual intervention
may be necessary. I have not found time to rework the layout and
template to avoid (or at least minimise) these problems. I should have a
list somewhere of the specific problems I've noted; I'll try to find it.

This is something to consider --and test-- when deciding which output
formats and layouts are wanted.

--Jean




Thanks for the insight. From what I read on the documentation mailist is 
that, most are interested in keeping the ODT format central to the 
workflow format and output, which to me is great. I have seen some 
grumblings here and there who have suggested other methods, perhaps for 
the sake of expediency, dropping the ODT format in cases such as these.


Always important showcase the ODF in this way. Thank you for giving it 
the importance in your workflow that it deserves.


Would it be correct for us to point to the LibO documentation process as 
an example of the ODF being used in a real corporate-style endeavour? We 
could, for example use it this way, for marketing purposes, as a working 
example for individuals/corporations to examine for adoption/migration 
considerations.


I am looking at this from a marketing point of view.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-04 05:54, Carlos Jenkins a écrit :



And on the other way, I usually use http://drupal.org/project/imagebrowser for
just images or http://drupal.org/project/webfm (but this one is quite more
complex and sometimes these features tend to be overwhelming for the user,
so, if the first one work better).

I'll try to integrate all those together with the CKEditor and know how they
work. I'll need to test also the integration with the ODF Import module when
uploading files.

Cheers



Hi Carlos:

Would it be possible to tailor the CKEditor with a set of features for a 
particular user and another set for another. It seems to me that the 
documentation teams have been around for a while and would perhaps like 
the feature rick modules like webfm whereas others members may find it 
too overwhelming. Is it possible to offer the choice for users? Maybe a 
setting on the user side of the CKEditor could offer them a more feature 
rich set of buttons?


This could also be of interest to users who would have mastered the use 
of the main CKEditor features and would like to graduate to the more 
feature rich version of the editor.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-04 07:40, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

The font is Liberation Sans. Suitable Name, and one of the better GPL fonts.

It looks like Google translates the pages into image files.
You can find it here in ODT format:

www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockUp.odt
or
www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockup.pdf

I have embedded the font in the pdf version or you should have the
Liberation Fonts installed.




Liberation fonts are installed by default on most, if not all, Linux 
boxes. Not sure of Win boxes, and I suspect not by default as they are 
meant as replacement for the set of MS ariel etc. fonts.


Marc



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-04 07:40, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

BTW .. you may be interested in keeping an eye on a thread on the 
marketing mailist "Change icon?". I don't know if this affects you if 
the changes are adopted.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-04 21:09, Michael Wheatland a écrit :



I think we should be using open licence fonts and the following links
are what I believe are the best of the bunch GPL Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(font)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2B_Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Libertine



I believe that the Liberation font family is normally included in any 
Linux OS. The font was constructed by RedHat as direct replacement to MS 
primary fonts such as Ariel etc. They are also available for MSWin boxes 
as downloads.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts

Marc




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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 03:21, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi, :-)

General suggestion: would it be a good idea to specify somewhere that,
when drafting documentation in English that US spelling is the norm?

General question: since it's a wiki, doesn't it make more sense to
have the docs in wiki format rather than ODT?
I may have missed a decision and a reasoning about this, because of
the floods of threads there have been on the various lists over the
past weeks, so could you please excuse me if so and be kind enough to
briefly explain the adopted policies? Thanks if so...
I plan to work through the posted material and do some proofreading.

David Nelson



Hi David

I am lurking the documentation mailist to help pick aspects of the 
documentation process that may apply to the development of the 
TDF/Drupal Drupal site. I'm a member of the Drupal team.


However, I am also a member of the marketing team. If I could perhaps 
just add my opinion to this.


From the perspective of the "outside world" the public face of the LibO 
documents section, it would seem to make sense that documents be 
provided in the first place in our native ODT formats. This should be 
trumpeted as our success in document achievement. I think that this is 
an expectation that we all share.


Also, if we are going to keep advertising the virtues of the ODF files. 
It would seem to make sense that we find ways to make the ODF files 
system "play nice" with the internal document flow. What better occasion 
would we get than having the use of a corporate-like structure such as 
the "TDF/LibreOffice document team division" use the ODF files 
internally at developing documents from start to end. We have our devs 
on-side for the development of an Office Suite championing the use of 
ODF, would it not make sense that we would try to make the 
creation/editing of internal ODF documents part of the internal process? 
The devs could could help in making this work. We could then, without 
any doubt, suggest and prove that using the ODF in creating documents in 
a corporate structure, from start to end production, is entirely and 
assuredly possible.


If so, as a group of committed document editing professionals, as you 
all are, you could use this occasion to streamline the ODF documents to 
work in such a process.


This would certainly help in marketing our LibO Suite as a viable office 
suite for the corporate/enterprise world.


Just my thoughts.

Marc
Member of the TDF/LibO Marketing Team
Member of the TDF/LibO Drupal Website Development Team


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 09:12, Frank Esposito a écrit :



http://siteresources.worldbank.org/TRANSLATIONSERVICESEXT/Resources/Translation_Style_Guide_English.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/translation/writing/style_guides/english/style_guide_en.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=r1bdk0YcPVsC&dq=international+english+guide&source=gbs_navlinks_s



Thanks Frank for these links.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 07:28, Jeff Prater a écrit :

I just installed the Liberation fonts on my computer because they weren't
already installed. I think it would be nice if OpenOffice were to install
these fonts when the program itself was installed. This way everyone who
decided to look at the guides would have the correct fonts installed
automatically.



Hi Jeff:

In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to 
install rather than have a programme install it for you without your 
permission. The user should always be in charge.


Are you on a Windows box?

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 14:46, Jeff Prater a écrit :


In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to
install rather than have a programme install it for you without your
permission. The user should always be in charge.

Are you on a Windows box?



I don't understand the "permission" aspect of having LibreOffice install
fonts automatically. If a user is voluntarily installing the program, then
they should accept whatever modifications the program performs. If would be
one thing if LibreOffice was installing a virus--it's simply installing
fonts which provide for a better user experience. It seems like it would
make sense for it to install free, open source fonts, especially if the
documentation is going to use a font other users may not have. We use
OpenOffice exclusively in my organization, and I can honestly tell you not a
single computer (300 of them) has the Liberation fonts installed. If I
wanted to distribute the documentation guide to my coworkers, they would not
be able to view it in its entirety.

And yes, I use Windows exclusively.

Jeff



I guess it is OK if you have enough faith to let programmes install 
fonts on their own. It's just that not every computer is the same. Some 
people enjoy installing many fonts on their own, but I thought there was 
a maximum amount that you could install on a windows machine, maybe I am 
wrong. But what if there were and it caused your machine to fail?


IMO there should always be a warning window that will let a user accept 
or not accept installation of "extras" and that the software should not 
install any of these without user knowledge and permission.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 14:43, Nino Novak a écrit :

On Friday 05 November 2010 18:27, Marc Paré wrote:


Just my thoughts.


Marc,

you're certainly right but nevertheless I'd propose to stay pragmatic
and to leave it to people to write documents the way they like most and
to provide the infrastructure to transform documents (from ODT to web
or vice versa).

Nino



Thanks Nino.

That is exactly what I am proposing. If we can't use the ODF  in a 
pragmatic way with our suite, then, how can we advertise that it is so 
to others?


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 16:06, Nino Novak a écrit :

On Friday 05 November 2010 20:21, Marc Paré wrote:


That is exactly what I am proposing. If we can't use the ODF  in a
pragmatic way with our suite, then, how can we advertise that it is
so to others?


It's not only about being able to use ODF but in addition about what is
the most efficient/pragmatic workflow for delivering good quality
documentation in time. Therefore, we have to test all possibilities and
to choose what is most appropriate. And stay prepared to adapt/change
our workflow when needed.

Nino




Thanks Nino.

Yes, always best to use the right tool for the job. I was just trying to 
comment that we were actually the people building the tool and it would 
be quite the opportunity here to better fine tune our tool in this 
process while the document team had a direct feed to the devs. What 
better way to prove that your tool if built for complete document 
production from start to finish.


But I understand that there are time and schedule constraints to meet.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 16:12, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Fri, 2010-11-05, Marc Paré wrote:


 From the perspective of the "outside world" the public face of the LibO
documents section, it would seem to make sense that documents be
provided in the first place in our native ODT formats. This should be
trumpeted as our success in document achievement. I think that this is
an expectation that we all share.

Also, if we are going to keep advertising the virtues of the ODF files.
It would seem to make sense that we find ways to make the ODF files
system "play nice" with the internal document flow. What better occasion
would we get than having the use of a corporate-like structure such as
the "TDF/LibreOffice document team division" use the ODF files
internally at developing documents from start to end. We have our devs
on-side for the development of an Office Suite championing the use of
ODF, would it not make sense that we would try to make the
creation/editing of internal ODF documents part of the internal process?
The devs could could help in making this work. We could then, without
any doubt, suggest and prove that using the ODF in creating documents in
a corporate structure, from start to end production, is entirely and
assuredly possible.

If so, as a group of committed document editing professionals, as you
all are, you could use this occasion to streamline the ODF documents to
work in such a process.

This would certainly help in marketing our LibO Suite as a viable office
suite for the corporate/enterprise world.

Just my thoughts.

Marc


Marc, you have expressed my opinion on this subject better than I can.
Thank you.

--Jean





Sorry to the documentation team if this seemed a negative comment on 
your production process. I think that most members who have taken the 
time to read your posts have come to the same conclusion as I, in that 
you are very professional in your approach to documentation as well as 
in respecting the production flow.


In some ways I feel apprehensive to thank you because I don't think that 
any of you would be anything else than this in any other comparable 
tasks. Thank you and my respects.


But in the same breath ... I will still add my opinions when and where I 
can. :-)


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 17:07, Nino Novak a écrit :

On Friday 05 November 2010 21:43, Marc Paré wrote:

Le 2010-11-05 16:06, Nino Novak a écrit :

On Friday 05 November 2010 20:21, Marc Paré wrote:


[...] I was just trying
to comment that we were actually the people building the tool and it
would be quite the opportunity here to better fine tune our tool in
this process while the document team had a direct feed to the devs.


not sure what you mean by having "a direct feed to the devs" (I'm not a
native speaker so sometimes I have to ask for better understanding,
sorry)

I think we should roughly catch requirements, then ASAP pick and provide
appropriate tools and start working as soon as possible. Fine tuning
can be done successively, as all parties will be learning by doing.
Call it prototyping or similar, I'm not an expert here.


What better way to prove that your tool if built for complete
document production from start to finish.


The tool has to be adequate/appropriate. For Internet collaboration,
mere ODF is not (yet) good enough, wiki and web are far more
appropriate. But nonetheless, it's a challenge to set up appropriate
workflows and supportive tools (and BTW that's one of the reasons for
me to participate here).



But I understand that there are time and schedule constraints to
meet.


Don't forget that we are setting our constraints ourselves :-)

N.



Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 17:03, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 16:52 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

Le 2010-11-05 16:12, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Fri, 2010-11-05, Marc Paré wrote:


   From the perspective of the "outside world" the public face of the LibO
documents section, it would seem to make sense that documents be
provided in the first place in our native ODT formats. This should be
trumpeted as our success in document achievement. I think that this is
an expectation that we all share.

Also, if we are going to keep advertising the virtues of the ODF files.
It would seem to make sense that we find ways to make the ODF files
system "play nice" with the internal document flow. What better occasion
would we get than having the use of a corporate-like structure such as
the "TDF/LibreOffice document team division" use the ODF files
internally at developing documents from start to end. We have our devs
on-side for the development of an Office Suite championing the use of
ODF, would it not make sense that we would try to make the
creation/editing of internal ODF documents part of the internal process?
The devs could could help in making this work. We could then, without
any doubt, suggest and prove that using the ODF in creating documents in
a corporate structure, from start to end production, is entirely and
assuredly possible.

If so, as a group of committed document editing professionals, as you
all are, you could use this occasion to streamline the ODF documents to
work in such a process.

This would certainly help in marketing our LibO Suite as a viable office
suite for the corporate/enterprise world.

Just my thoughts.

Marc


Marc, you have expressed my opinion on this subject better than I can.
Thank you.

--Jean





Sorry to the documentation team if this seemed a negative comment on
your production process. I think that most members who have taken the
time to read your posts have come to the same conclusion as I, in that
you are very professional in your approach to documentation as well as
in respecting the production flow.

In some ways I feel apprehensive to thank you because I don't think that
any of you would be anything else than this in any other comparable
tasks. Thank you and my respects.

But in the same breath ... I will still add my opinions when and where I
can. :-)

Marc


Marc, please do! And I, at least, did not take your comments negatively.
I agree with all you said, and you said it well.

--Jean



Thanks.

Marc




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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 20:05, Graham Lauder a écrit :

If we are going to have LibreOffice install fonts, then we should have 
the user approve it through the installation process.


The Liberation fonts were created to replace the MS fonts on Linux 
boxes. I believe that these are normally installed on Linux so it's less 
of an issue there.  I am not sure if this would clash with the installer 
if there are different versions of the fonts. Devs would have to be 
involved obviously to make all of this work.


I don't think that MS would ever consider having the Liberation fonts 
appear on their installs.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: workflow on oooauthors

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 20:21, Carlos Jenkins a écrit :


Hi Carlos:

Would it be possible to tailor the CKEditor with a set of features for a
particular user and another set for another. It seems to me that the
documentation teams have been around for a while and would perhaps like the
feature rick modules like webfm whereas others members may find it too
overwhelming. Is it possible to offer the choice for users? Maybe a setting
on the user side of the CKEditor could offer them a more feature rich set of
buttons?


Yes, it is possible. So, we would need a stripped down version of CKEditor
and a most complete one. The WebFM can be administrated  with roles. So,
some roles could use it and others don't.

Checking this page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal/Roles I
think just administrator roles should be able to use it.

Cheers



Neat! Nice admin function to have.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-06 00:50, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

So I believe that with confirmation that you can install 200+ fonts
without problems, we could include 20 or so fonts with the LibreOffice
distribution.



BTW ... There have been on occasions where I have found that some files 
that I have helped with correcting font problems that the only solution 
was to install the Arial font. The files in question came from a friend 
of mine who does a lot of church community music work and receives files 
from all over the country. These file were on the whole either Impress 
or long convoluted write files first worked on Win machines. The 
formatting of the file was a mess even after I made sure that the 
compatible Liberation font was set to replace the Ariel font. It just 
didn't format correctly. After going over the file with various tries, I 
returned the original file and installed the public domain Arial font 
and the text realigned properly. For this person in particular, I now 
make sure that the public domain Arial font is always installed on her 
Linux box. In fact, I also do this for another contact who is also in 
the music field as composer and he had the same peculiar problems as 
well ... Linux box as well. All of my other linux contacts have never 
shown any indications of any such problems. I tried to find an example, 
but it looks like I've deleted them all.


I help manage approx. 40 Mandriva boxes in my local area.


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-05 23:17, jonathon a écrit :

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 11/05/2010 11:32 PM, Carlos Jenkins wrote:


When an OS blows up because of too many fonts, the effect is the same as if the 
OS had been hit by a virus.

This is possible?


I had to reinstall Win7 on my laptop, because I installed too many
fonts. (Literally, the only way to fix Windows was to wipe the drive,
and reinstall it.)


I do have several hundred of fonts, really, and I never had problems with it.


Whilst Win7 can handle more fonts than other versions of Windows, it is
very picky about those fonts.

The only figure that sticks in my mind, is 50K installed fonts for some
Linux distros, but majority can handle 100+K installed fonts.

jonathon
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkzUyNcACgkQaC1raifmCuHDAgCeJ5/wSFKqu0MLpopcC96aUo/A
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Years ago, this also happened to me on both Win and Linux boxes as a 
test. Grant you, I was on Win98. The fix was to boot into a Linux Cd and 
remove the newly added fonts. The problem on Linux is that I had added a 
.zip file of 1000 or so fonts and it looks like one of the fonts was one 
of the culprits. I removed the fonts one by one and finally gave up for 
lack of time and remove the whole set and the Linux box re-booted fine.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-06 12:44, Andrea Pescetti a écrit :

Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

I'll add that using the OOoAuthors website to produce LibO docs does NOT
mean that the LibO docs team is required to follow the procedures we use
for producing OOo docs. Indeed, I think some of the native-language
groups using the website follow slightly different processes from those
used by the English-docs team.


Well, the Italian team for instance only translates the published
English chapters, so it's expected that their processes are different.
In our case, the volunteers' choice was to base on the English ODT
version.

We thus have:
- English ODT ->  English Wiki (through the "Wiki Publisher" extension)
- English ODT ->  Italian ODT  (through OmegaT and translation memory)
- Italian ODT ->  Italian Wiki (through the "Wiki Publisher" extension)
- English Wiki ->  Italian Wiki is forbidden

This, thanks to translation memories, proved to be the best workflow
when updates are concerned; and, if someone is going to adapt the
OpenOffice.org documentation to LibreOffice, this might be a good
approach to minimize the volunteers' efforts.

Regards,
   Andrea Pescetti.




Thanks Andrea, we will make a note of it for the Drupal setup.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: General questions and suggestions

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-06 13:54, Marc Paré a écrit :

Le 2010-11-06 12:44, Andrea Pescetti a écrit :

Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

I'll add that using the OOoAuthors website to produce LibO docs does NOT
mean that the LibO docs team is required to follow the procedures we use
for producing OOo docs. Indeed, I think some of the native-language
groups using the website follow slightly different processes from those
used by the English-docs team.


Well, the Italian team for instance only translates the published
English chapters, so it's expected that their processes are different.
In our case, the volunteers' choice was to base on the English ODT
version.

We thus have:
- English ODT -> English Wiki (through the "Wiki Publisher" extension)
- English ODT -> Italian ODT (through OmegaT and translation memory)
- Italian ODT -> Italian Wiki (through the "Wiki Publisher" extension)
- English Wiki -> Italian Wiki is forbidden

This, thanks to translation memories, proved to be the best workflow
when updates are concerned; and, if someone is going to adapt the
OpenOffice.org documentation to LibreOffice, this might be a good
approach to minimize the volunteers' efforts.

Regards,
Andrea Pescetti.




Thanks Andrea, we will make a note of it for the Drupal setup.

Marc


BTW ... let us know if you need any other customizations and we will 
look into it as well.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Docvert 4.0 released

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-08 00:44, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

This looks interesting. I haven't tried it. I just sent Matthew a note
asking if it works with LibreOffice as well as OOo. :-)

--Jean

 Forwarded Message 
From: Matthew Holloway
Reply-to: ODF Discussion List
To: ODF Discussion List
Subject: [odf-discuss] Docvert 4.0 released (MS Word to OpenDocument to
DocBook to HTML)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 16:51:11 +1300

Hi folks, if you want a publishing system that deals with OpenDocument
or MS Word then I thought you might be interested in this open source
software that I've been writing for about 5 years now. It's a web
service that you can host yourself.

It now supports EMF/WMF files (it converts them to SVG/PNG) and it's
much faster because it uses OpenOffice in a server-mode, and it has
unit tests to assert things about document structure throughout the
conversion.

   http://docvert.org/

(if you're on Debian/Ubuntu the easiest install will be to apt-get
install docvert-openoffice.org and then overwrite /usr/share/docvert
with the tar.gz download)

Cheers  :)



Thanks Jean. Looks interesting. The FAQ are a good read. I don't have a 
debian or a Ubuntu box, otherwise I would give it a try.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Docvert 4.0 released

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-08 03:45, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :


Here is the reply I got when I asked about LibO. :-)
I pointed him to the location of the .debs (which, though mentioned on
the LibO download page, are not immediately obvious to someone in a
hurry).

--Jean

 Forwarded Message 
From: Matthew Holloway
Reply-to: ODF Discussion List
To: ODF Discussion List
Subject: Re: [odf-discuss] Docvert 4.0 released (MS Word to OpenDocument
to DocBook to HTML)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:47:48 +1300

Hi Jean,

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Jean Hollis Weber
wrote:

Thanks for the pointer, Matthew. I notice that the download page says
one needs OpenOffice.org installed. Would it work with one of the OOo
derivatives such as LibreOffice? Might be worth checking in your spare
time (joke). LibreOffice Beta2 is here:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/download/


Heh, yeah I haven't got around to updating the docs yet but I'm fully
intending to support LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice.org. From a
programming standpoint I think they're still identical (it still uses
uno right?) and as soon as it's in Debian or Ubuntu I'll move over to
it :)



Great work Jean. Thanks for doing this.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Feedback and testing on Rich Editor on the Drupal site -- note from Carlos Jenkins

[Marc Paré]

I am just posting this note on the documentation mailist so that 
everyone is aware of this. Many thanks to Carlos for working on this.


Feel free to give it a good workout and thanks for the help in ironing 
out the bugs.


*PLEASE LEAVE IMPRESSIONS/FEEDBACK ON THE WEBSITE MAILIST THREAD 
HERE  http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/msg00932.html  **


Marc

===

Hi everyone,

We think the editor of the Drupal site is ready, please could this kind
community
give a try and give us feedback :D

The main page is here:

http://libreofficeaustralia.org/richeditortest/rich-editor-test-book

Please leave all the formats so we can continue testing on this page.

So can create as many you want childs for testing here:

http://libreofficeaustralia.org/node/add/re-test?parent=1275

Things to consider:

- Full HTML is not allowed, the tags, attributes and even inline CSS styles
were
configured, so, if you observe that the filter is taking out a generated
style
please let us know.
- I've selected and grouped buttons on what I think is a good balance
between
website security and usability of the editor. Please, if you need some other
functionality
let us know.
- The caption and upload image feature (se below) are javascript , so not
avalaible
on configurations with javascript disabled.
 - The CSS of the images blocks and the little magnifying glass was a quick
thing,
I know it's not perfect.

Features of the editor:

- Well most of you can see. Everything should work.
- You can resize the image (changing width and height), and a filter
 actually resizes the image and, if resized, the image links to the
original.
- If you put a title to and image a caption below of the image will appear.
 - If you don't want a caption to appear you can remove the title of the
image
or remove the "caption" class of that image. Double click >> Advanced >>
Classes
 - The link button now has the abilitty to link easilly to internal 
content.


Known bugs:

- Inserting an image in Firefox shows a broken image. If you preview or
 disable/enable the editor the image appears. This is a bug in CKEditor:
http://dev.ckeditor.com/ticket/5218 (Upstream bug)
 http://drupal.org/node/725154 (Drupal bug)
- The option "Cleanup styles on standard paste" is enabled, but it's not
 working for some reason. I'll check that later, until now, you will have
to use the "Remove format" button when copying for another web to remove
 the formmating or use the button "Paste as text".
- In-editor live image resize doesn't work on Chromium, but works on
 Firefox. You can resize an image on Chromium by double clicking on it
and changing the values of heigth/width. Ironically, you can not resize
 an image in the live resizer on Firefox because of bug 1.

Pending:

- A more user friendly link to files. Right now you can upload files and
 create a link, but is not so user friendly.
- I haven't defined a criteria for the search of internal linking, so
everything
 shows up. Try typing "Libre" to see it work.
- Lightbox on click on a image?

Notes on implementation:

- I've tested a lot of modules for image handling in Drupal:

Image Assist http://drupal.org/project/img_assist
Image browser http://drupal.org/project/imagebrowser
WYSIWYG Image Upload http://drupal.org/project/wysiwyg_imageupload
IMCE http://drupal.org/project/imce

And discarted all of them. At the end, I implemented a custom image upload
as explained here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLB9-1t_mrE

That includes the modules:
cck, imagefield, transliteration, image_resize_filter, insert, image_caption
and lightbox

I've updated this page to reflect the current state:
 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal_Modules#User_interface

Now, some sleep.

Cheers

-- http://www.cjenkins.net/ http://csl-tec.softwarelibrecr.org/

==


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Feedback and testing on Rich Editor on the Drupal site -- note from Carlos Jenkins

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-08 14:09, Marc Paré a écrit :

I am just posting this note on the documentation mailist so that
everyone is aware of this. Many thanks to Carlos for working on this.

Feel free to give it a good workout and thanks for the help in ironing
out the bugs.

*PLEASE LEAVE IMPRESSIONS/FEEDBACK ON THE WEBSITE MAILIST THREAD
HERE http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/msg00932.html **

Marc


Sorry, I thought that you could add comments to the thread by using the 
link ... but you can't. Please leave your comments on the website 
mailist thread.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: State of a document on Drupal site

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-09 12:39, Sophie Gautier a écrit :

Hi all,

Reading the workflow on the wiki for Documentation [1], I have a
question concerning the state of a Document. This is something that is
very important in the workflow of our group (FR) hence my question :)
Where do I see if a document is reserved, by whom, for what and for
how long ? May be I should ask for a testing account to see if our
usual way of work is here and don't bother anybody here ;)

[1]http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal/Workflows
Thanks in advance
Kind regards
Sophie



Bonjour Sophie:

Someone here will most likely help you with the workflow. As for Drupal,

You can also try out the site:

Test username: User
Test password: user

If you need more permissions, leave a note on the website mailist and 
Michael or Carlos will help you out.


Re: workflow. If the French Doumentation Team need any particular help 
from the Drupal Web. Dev. Team, we will help you out and tailor it to 
what you want. Once you have your workflow worked out for Drupal, you 
should perhaps plan on having your team members  test it before we go 
live in 3-6 months.


Salut!

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] [Drupal Documentation Needs] Documentation Team needs and Drupal site development

[Marc Paré]

As Michael Wheatland posted on the website mailist, the Drupal site is 
coming along quite well. We are just working on the Drupal site needs 
for various groups.


Let us know on this thread what your anticipated needs are and/or any 
wishes that you may have to make your section work better. Michael or I 
will then update the Drupal Website Development wiki page with your 
suggestions. 
(http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal/Documentation) with 
the data (unless you wish to update it yourself).


Try to be as complete as possible. We can still add more wishes later, 
after the site goes live, but it will probably be busy with other 
demands on the Drupal Website Devs.


Needed:  Please feel free to add any individual team requirements for 
the final Drupal based website. All requirements should be non-specific. 
ie. Instead of "a wiki to upload documents to" try "a web based document 
control system". We care about detailed requirements here rather than 
proposed solutions.


Your requirements
==

* Ideas: (add any ideas that you may have; ideas that would allow better 
work conditions for the design team etc.)


* File formats: (Should the Drupal team take into consideration any file 
formats for your team? These are mostly for uploading/downloading concerns.)


* Workflows / Procedures:


Cheers

Marc
Drupal Web. Dev. Team member




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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation conference call

[Marc Paré]

Hi David et al

Thanks for the message. In fact many of the aspects that you speak of 
are of interest to the Drupal team. We have tried as best as we can to 
question and lurk in different group mailists and we still need some 
information to really round out our preparation for the Drupal website 
with regards to the Documentation, Marketing and Dev teams. Which 
explains the post of the thread yesterday: [Drupal Documentation Needs] 
Documentation Team needs and Drupal site development.


The Drupal Web Dev Team is at the point where it is looking at the 
information to try to complete these 3 sections so that the transfer in 
the early 2011 months is as painless and seemless as possible.


It would be nice if that thread were filled out so that we can continue 
our work to prepare the Drupal "Documentation site" which will also 
allow time for testing by the Documentation members.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation conference call

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-22 05:46, David Nelson a écrit :



I'm also asking Florian if it will be possible to use the Talkyoo
channel. (If so, I'll post details about how to use it. If not, we
could also use a Skype conference.)

I have made myself a promise to keep reminding people that using a Skype 
conference meeting is not an option for those with dial-up or cellphone 
hook-up. We should at least try to find options where the possibility of 
participation is greatest for our membership, even those who are really 
only interested in "listening in" on the meeting.


We should avoid marginalising those with slower speeds of connection.

Marc




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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation conference call

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-22 18:59, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi all, :-)

I've created a wiki page [1] with more information about the planned
conference call.

Notably, you can add suggested agenda items there, or you can discuss
them in this thread beforehand.

If you're interested in taking part, please add your available time
slots to the poll at:

http://doodle.com/qq8hiysi36fhkwy4

All currently-contributing and prospective documentation workers are
enthusiastically invited!

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/ConfCalls

David Nelson



Thanks David.

Will there be an mp3 and text version available afterwards just like the 
Marketing confcalls?


I may sit on the sidelines if I can make it. The Drupal team will be 
interested on any decisions made on infrastructure for our site 
development team.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation conference call

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-23 04:19, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi Marc, :-)

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 17:05, Marc Paré  wrote:

Will there be an mp3 and text version available afterwards just like the
Marketing confcalls?


That's uncertain and will depend on participants' express agreement.



As we have made a commitment to be a transparent organisation, I think 
it would be in our interest to plan for this. This allows all of the 
membership the opportunity to hear/read (also in translated form by some 
groups) the proceedings of the meeting. If I am unable to attend, it 
would be nice to have this.


All of the marketing proceedings are posted this way.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Suggestion from a user on the "user mailist"

[Marc Paré]

I was just on the user mailist and one the users was mentioning this:



I have said this in the OOo discuss list, and I think it bears repeating
here. One of the biggest problems causing the need for users especially
new ones to need help is the lack of a good users manual. The OOo
documentation site is very confusing, there are too many manuals to
choose from and nothing says anything like "If you are a new user, this
is the one you want". I could be wrong in this, but I don't think that I
am. The only module I ever use with any regularity is Writer. If I can
figure out how to use it, I might use Calc for a personal check
register, likewise I might use Base for a list of all my DVD collection,
but it's Writer that I use daily. I suspect that I am fairly typical in
this, and that perhaps 50% or more of OOo, and now LO users use Writer
far more than they use the other applications. A survey might tell us if
that is so.


Assuming that it is, I think the primary users manual should focus on
Writer, with just one chapter on each of the other modules, and a
pointer to where to download a more extensive manual on each. Where I
disagree with most who write in, is that I think that a basic manual
like I describe *should be in the download package*. In order to keep it
small for that reason, it should be in ODF format not PDF, and it should
be formatted for an 8.5x11 page rather than the usual 5x7 so that it
would be practical for the user to print out without the horrendous
paper waste of the 5x7 format. (Remember all printer paper comes in
8.5x11 or similar) Also keeping it to 100 pages or less will both keep
the download size down, and encourage users to actually print a hard
copy. (a hard copy is very useful because you can read in the manual
while using the software) I find help often less than helpful simply
because it can be difficult to both read how to do a thing and
simultaneously do it. I recognize that a much longer and more detailed
manual is required to completely cover subjects like Styles, but for all
beginners, and most other users a manual like I just described is what's
needed. Probably organized with an introduction to the most used
commands, then a tutorial, then a reference section.

This could be one thing that would set LO apart from other packages that
offer good word processors, Even expensive MS basically sucks in the
area of manuals and user support. Years ago they used to be much better
in this area. Good user support seems to be the first thing that for
profit companies give up when they think they can get away with it.



I was just wondering how large was the Writer documentation and in what 
format is it available? Of course the Writer module would be made 
downloadable for LibreOffice users if this were possible rather than his 
suggestion of including it in the package.


How logical does his suggestion sound?

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Suggestion from a user on the "user mailist"

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-11-23 17:40, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Marc,
I forgot to say at the end of my previous (long) note on this topic,
that you are welcome to resend it to the user list if you want to.

--Jean


Thanks for the excellent detailed information. I'll send it off to the 
user site. I think this will satisfy it. Who knows, maybe Christmas will 
bring along more happy and willing writers to help out with the project. :-)


Thanks again.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Embedded parts and wikihelp/HC2

[Marc Paré]

Le 2010-12-16 10:07, Sophie Gautier a écrit :


Also, I think our marketing guys will be happy to make some buzz around
this important feature when it will be ready and it may be even better
if it's not at the same time of 3.3, what do you think?



Kind regards
Sophie



Definitely. I am waiting to see it and give it a good workout and appraisal.

Marc
Marketing Team Member


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Embedded parts and wikihelp/HC2

[Marc Paré]

Hi Kendy:

Re: Open Questions on this particular page.

I agree that the editing rights should be open to only certain groups. 
As Wikihelp is destined to be an integral part of the LibreOffice suite, 
it should be held in protective mode from possible wrong-doers. Keeping 
it open would be the same as keeping any of the development code open 
for anyone to modify. We would not want any unwanted script to appear in 
code nor our help files.


I would feel better if there were some kind of workflow attached to the 
Wikihelp approval process whereby it would be treated just as any other 
document just as in the process used with the documentation team.


I think that it is fine to have it open for now but once it has been 
included in the final version on LibreOffice, it should be protected 
from outside manipulation.


Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Printed copy of Getting Started with LibreOffice 3.3

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-02 20:45, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Friends of OpenDocument, Inc is delighted to announce the publication of
the printed edition of "Getting Started with LibreOffice 3.3", which is
now available from Lulu.com through this link:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-libreoffice-33/14423050

All profits from the sale of this book will go to The Document
Foundation.

Huge thanks to Hal Parker for doing the work of compiling the book ready
for publication.

The interior PDF of this book can be replaced with a new one whenever
the book itself is revised. Similarly, the cover artwork can be replaced
if/when someone creates a better design.

David or someone who is on one of the other lists (Marketing, perhaps?)
might like to pass this info on.

--Jean



Thanks Jean. Others and myself from the marketing team are lurking on 
the list. Thanks to the Friends of OpenDocument for doing this.


Cheers

Marc



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-04 23:05, Ron Faile a écrit :

I've just uploaded an early example of a quick reference card for
keyboard shortcuts that I've been working on to the docs dev page (in
resources). I think that quick reference cards would be beneficial to
many people in getting started with the program. I plan on them being
two pages (printed front and back on a single sheet). And can be
laminated if desired. Will let you know when I get a working copy to
upload to the wiki.

Ron



Hi Ron. This will be very appreciated. I can see marketing using this at 
conference booths.


I was also thinking that we could also have a reference card that could 
sit on a desktop shaped similarly to a "Toblerne" chocolate bar 
package.[1] There would be 3 faces with corresponding or affiliated menu 
items on each side. We could also have different renditions made up to 
suit different people's needs or interests (for new users; 
wordprocessing users; calc users; business oriented users; database 
users etc. )


If we could categorise these and advertise them on our site it may prove 
to be of help to some.


I will leave a copy of this post on the marketing list and see if anyone 
would be interested in picking up the idea. I will also make a note of 
this in the "ideas" section of marketing.[2] In this case, I don't think 
we could call this a promotional idea but more of a tool to the distro.


Could you also inform the marketing team when your reference card is 
completed?


Cheers

Marc

[1] 
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/attachments/88205d1229482450-toblerone.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t173239/&h=368&w=540&sz=25&tbnid=EDlYJ4IKGfvS7M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtoblerone%2Bchocolate&zoom=1&q=toblerone+chocolate&usg=__GpxeUvkYv_H5tfgiyGfuWONBafA=&sa=X&ei=jfYjTf7WLofInAfj-8nLDg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBA


[2] 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#LibreOffice_Desktop_Reference_Cards



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Contributing

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-04 15:25, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Hi Jean


Related info: OOoAuthors will soon be changing its name to ODFAuthors
and moving to a server run by the German organisation that is hosting
The Document Foundation. ODFAuthors will be available as a resource to
OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice, or other community groups producing
documentation for open source programs.

--Jean


All of the very best of wishes on your move and congrats on the new 
name. I hope this does not mean that we will be seeing less of you. Your 
help is most appreciated.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-05 08:26, Ron Faile a écrit :

I will. Here is the link for the reference card (see the resources
section).
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development



Thanks for the link. Great resource to have.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-08 22:08, Ron Faile a écrit :

On 1/4/2011 11:26 PM, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Ron. This will be very appreciated. I can see marketing using this
at conference booths.

I was also thinking that we could also have a reference card that
could sit on a desktop shaped similarly to a "Toblerne" chocolate bar
package.[1] There would be 3 faces with corresponding or affiliated
menu items on each side. We could also have different renditions made
up to suit different people's needs or interests (for new users;
wordprocessing users; calc users; business oriented users; database
users etc. )

Marc


I will. Here is the link for the reference card (see the resources
section).
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development


Hi Marc,
I've created a reference card from your idea with three sides and
featuring three components: Writer, Calc and Impress. Instructions are
on page 2. See LibreOffice_Tri-fold_Reference.pdf in the Reference Cards
section. Comments are welcome.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

Ron



That is perfect! Thank you. Now, all we need is for a set of modified 
tri-fold reference cards, following your model, specifically made for 
groups focussed on different tasks. We could make a list on the wiki 
page and just add "done" once categories are completed.


We should also have samples at conference booths for people to either 
take home with them or just as booth samples. The booth samples should 
be made out of card stock and in colour.


Thanks a lot for the help.

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-09 03:19, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit :


Le 05/01/2011 05:05, Ron Faile a écrit :


I've just uploaded an early example of a quick reference card for
keyboard shortcuts that I've been working on to the docs dev page (in
resources). I think that quick reference cards would be beneficial to
many people in getting started with the program. I plan on them being
two pages (printed front and back on a single sheet). And can be
laminated if desired. Will let you know when I get a working copy to
upload to the wiki.

Ron



In 2006 I had proposed to the FR group a quick ref card proof of
concept. As an example, I had devised two such documents about Mailmerge.

You can find the QR2 here:
http://fr.openoffice.org/files/documents/67/3641/PublipostageRefCard2.odt

This QR card is planned as a three-pane folding document for A4 paper
format.


Just my 2 (euro)cents,


Bonjour Jean-François

This looks great as well. Would you be interested in working this up 
again for LibreOffice3.3?


I have printed a copy on US lettre and of course it doesn't fit 
properly, but, it looks like p.1 could be squeezed a bit to make that 
side p. 5,6,1 work both in A4 and US letter. T


Side 2 looks more problematic, I don't know if all 3 pages could be 
squeezed enough to fit a US letter size properly. It may have to be 
reworked.


If your proof of concept could be printed out on both A4/US letter, this 
would also be a clear winner.


If you work this out in Français, I could test it out here on US letter 
(Canada). IMO, we should all switch to A4 the world over. (sigh)


Let me know what you think.

Salut

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-01-09 06:41, Marc Paré a écrit :

Le 2011-01-08 22:08, Ron Faile a écrit :

On 1/4/2011 11:26 PM, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Ron. This will be very appreciated. I can see marketing using this
at conference booths.

I was also thinking that we could also have a reference card that
could sit on a desktop shaped similarly to a "Toblerne" chocolate bar
package.[1] There would be 3 faces with corresponding or affiliated
menu items on each side. We could also have different renditions made
up to suit different people's needs or interests (for new users;
wordprocessing users; calc users; business oriented users; database
users etc. )

Marc


I will. Here is the link for the reference card (see the resources
section).
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development


Hi Marc,
I've created a reference card from your idea with three sides and
featuring three components: Writer, Calc and Impress. Instructions are
on page 2. See LibreOffice_Tri-fold_Reference.pdf in the Reference Cards
section. Comments are welcome.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

Ron



That is perfect! Thank you. Now, all we need is for a set of modified
tri-fold reference cards, following your model, specifically made for
groups focussed on different tasks. We could make a list on the wiki
page and just add "done" once categories are completed.

We should also have samples at conference booths for people to either
take home with them or just as booth samples. The booth samples should
be made out of card stock and in colour.

Thanks a lot for the help.

Marc




Sorry, I am just leaving a note here for the marketing team to keep them 
up to date. Conferences are looming at this point and some of the 
members are organising their materials.


Marketing team, have a try and leave your comments.

You will also find the wiki page for the idea here: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#LibreOffice_Desktop_Reference_Cards


I have added some sample "types" of users for whom we could tailor the card.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Hi Jean-François:

Le 2011-01-09 15:25, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit :


If you work this out in Français, I could test it out here on US letter
(Canada).


OK. Where should I upload the drafts? At this moment, I can't give any
timeframe but I'll do my best to be as fast as possible :)

IMO, we should all switch to A4 the world over. (sigh)

A4 rulez! ;-)

Cheers,


Yes, it does rulez! We are almost there (Canada) but our closest 
neighbour will have to be convinced to move to A4.


Anyway, you could upload it to a Document Foundation wiki page or just 
email me a copy when you have one done. I'll give it a try on my US 
letter printer.


Thanks for this.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started With LibreOffice 3.3

[Marc Paré]

Hi everyone:

I just received my copy of "Getting Started With LibreOffice 3.3" from 
Lulu today and wanted to extend my congratulations to the doc team for 
this great publication. It looks great and reads quite well.


Congrats on a job well done. Your work is most appreciated. Looking 
forward to more of your fine work.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice in the Press (wiki page)

[Marc Paré]

There is now a wiki page tracking LibreOffice in the press for marketing 
purposes and for your interest.[1] If you happen to read an article on 
LibreOffice in a magazine/blog we would be most grateful if you could 
mention it on this thread. Whether positive or negative in tone does not 
matter. Any language (magazine/blog) as well.


Tom Davies and I will take care of updating the international site. If 
you are interested in maintaining any particular NL "LibreOffice in the 
Press" wiki page, feel free to jump in. We should try to promote 
LibreOffice with all related magazines and blogs to create more buzz 
about our project and product.


If you are interested in maintaining any NL page, just announce it 
somewhere on this thread so that we are aware of your participation.


Even if you are not interested in maintaining one of the NL wiki pages, 
feel free to drop by to read up on what people are saying about our 
great office suite.


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_In_The_Press

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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Hi everyone:

Le 2011-01-05 08:26, Ron Faile a écrit :

On 1/4/2011 11:26 PM, Marc Paré wrote:

Le 2011-01-04 23:05, Ron Faile a écrit :

I've just uploaded an early example of a quick reference card for
keyboard shortcuts that I've been working on to the docs dev page (in
resources). I think that quick reference cards would be beneficial to
many people in getting started with the program. I plan on them being
two pages (printed front and back on a single sheet). And can be
laminated if desired. Will let you know when I get a working copy to
upload to the wiki.

Ron



Hi Ron. This will be very appreciated. I can see marketing using this
at conference booths.

I was also thinking that we could also have a reference card that
could sit on a desktop shaped similarly to a "Toblerne" chocolate bar
package.[1] There would be 3 faces with corresponding or affiliated
menu items on each side. We could also have different renditions made
up to suit different people's needs or interests (for new users;
wordprocessing users; calc users; business oriented users; database
users etc. )

If we could categorise these and advertise them on our site it may
prove to be of help to some.

I will leave a copy of this post on the marketing list and see if
anyone would be interested in picking up the idea. I will also make a
note of this in the "ideas" section of marketing.[2] In this case, I
don't think we could call this a promotional idea but more of a tool
to the distro.

Could you also inform the marketing team when your reference card is
completed?

Cheers

Marc

[1]
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/attachments/88205d1229482450-toblerone.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t173239/&h=368&w=540&sz=25&tbnid=EDlYJ4IKGfvS7M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtoblerone%2Bchocolate&zoom=1&q=toblerone+chocolate&usg=__GpxeUvkYv_H5tfgiyGfuWONBafA=&sa=X&ei=jfYjTf7WLofInAfj-8nLDg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBA


[2]
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#LibreOffice_Desktop_Reference_Cards




I will. Here is the link for the reference card (see the resources
section).
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development



Yikes! This page has changed and the marketing team was linking the 
reference card on its conference kit wiki page. Can anyone point me to 
the new location? Is there anyway to avoid this in the future? Some of 
us are planning on having some made up for conferences.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-12 00:39, Jeremy Cartwright a écrit :

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:05:22 -0500
Marc Paré  wrote:


Yikes! This page has changed and the marketing team was linking the
reference card on its conference kit wiki page. Can anyone point me
to the new location? Is there anyway to avoid this in the future?
Some of us are planning on having some made up for conferences.


Mea Culpa. Ron had them uploaded to the wiki, and I promised to put
them on Alfresco. They are there now, under `LibreOffice
Documentation/en/Reference/Working/Drafts`.


-- jdc



Thanks for doing this. Should we be doing anything about this? Does this 
mean that there are now 2 copies, one of which could be updated and the 
other could be left behind? There should only be 1 copy for people to 
point to.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-12 00:40, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi Marc, :-)

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Tri-fold_Reference.odt

I guess it would be better to link directly to the content rather than
a specific page?

David Nelson



Yup, although I was hoping more reference cards would be developed too. 
Which is why I was referring to the page. Oh well.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-12 01:40, Hal Parker a écrit :

On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:


Le 2011-02-12 00:39, Jeremy Cartwright a écrit :


On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:05:22 -0500
Marc Paré   wrote:

  Yikes! This page has changed and the marketing team was linking the

reference card on its conference kit wiki page. Can anyone point me
to the new location? Is there anyway to avoid this in the future?
Some of us are planning on having some made up for conferences.



Mea Culpa. Ron had them uploaded to the wiki, and I promised to put
them on Alfresco. They are there now, under `LibreOffice
Documentation/en/Reference/Working/Drafts`.



Thanks for doing this. Should we be doing anything about this? Does this
mean that there are now 2 copies, one of which could be updated and the
other could be left behind? There should only be 1 copy for people to point
to.



My understanding is the wiki is where people get published copies; Alfresco
is where the WORKING files (for updates, etc) are kept. So any external
"pointing" should be to the wiki.

Hal



I have it pointing to the file now. Thanks for clarifying this.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Quick reference cards

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-12 01:43, Hal Parker a écrit :

On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:


Le 2011-02-12 00:40, David Nelson a écrit :

  Hi Marc, :-)


http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Tri-fold_Reference.odt

I guess it would be better to link directly to the content rather than
a specific page?

David Nelson



Yup, although I was hoping more reference cards would be developed too.
Which is why I was referring to the page. Oh well.




I agree with Marc. These should be listed on a wiki page, either the same
one as the user guides or a separate page. Then people can point to the wiki
page for "quick reference cards" in general or to a specific file if that is
more relevant.

Hal



Everything is OK now. I am happy! :-)

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Some of us on the marketing and USmarketing teams are having a 
discussion on usage and I thought that perhaps someone on the 
documentation team could help us.


1. Use of "Euro". It was pointed out that the European Community had 
issued its verdict saying that "Euro" should not be pluralized (i.e. 
"Euros") in any situation. So, should we then standardize our use of 
"Euro" to this for all documentation, website and marketing materials?


There was also a discussion, with no decision about the treatment of the 
word "Euro". Would we write: 50 000 euro or 50 000 Euro or should we 
rather write Euro 50 000 or euro 50 000  or EU50 000 ?


2. The setting of the the thousand separator and the decimal point. 
There seems to be multiple acceptable usages. For example all of the 
following seem to be correct:


50 000.05
50,000.05
50.000,05
50 000.05
50.000,05

Is there an already "agreed to" use of the thousand separator and 
decimal point for the LibreOffice documentation team?


We could coordinate this throughout our documentation, website and 
marketing teams.


References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Decimal_separator 
(this is Wikipedia's style manual -- do we have a LibreOffice style 
manual that the documentation team follows?)


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 06:45, Luuk a écrit :





The ' European Commission'-website
has an article about it
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/cash/symbol/index_en.htm



Thanks.

So, judging by this page: 
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication6336_en.pdf 
, the only case where the treatment of "euro" is capitalized is in 
German. In all other cases, all other countries use the lower-case 
"euro". Could we then standardize our documentation, website and 
marketing materials to "euro" for international use? Unless of course 
the material is for German audience. There is NO plural on "euro" as 
directed by the EU Commission.


50 000 euro

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 06:47, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit :





2. The setting of the the thousand separator and the decimal point.
There seems to be multiple acceptable usages. For example all of the
following seem to be correct:

50 000.05
50,000.05


EN


50.000,05


FR


50 000.05
50.000,05


FR again


Just my two (Euro-)cents


This does not give any answer. If we are writing international material, 
could we come up with a LibreOffice style? Which one should we adopt for 
documentation, website, marketing materials that are international?


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Hi Sophie:

Le 2011-02-19 07:14, Sophie Gautier a écrit :


The place of the punctuation in numbers depends on the countries and the
system used, so you won't have a standard here. There is countries using
arabic numerals with decimal point, other using arabic numerals with
decimal coma and some other systems too. Also the currency name can be
used as a suffix or prefix depending on the country.

Kind regards
Sophie



Thanks for the reply. My question is whether we decide on a format for 
our international related material or do we let the author of these 
materials decide?


For example, if I were to put together a French flyer for the funding 
drive, if this is the case then the flyer would have "50,000.05 euro" 
(this is just a number for the sake of this discussion).


I think if we were to settle on a standard "LibreOffice international 
style" then we could develop material that would not have to be 
re-edited. Would we then use the "50,000.05 euro" in France or would it 
be "50 000,05" euro?


Would it not make sense to standardise to a style that would be applied 
to all three groups: documentation, website and marketing? I think the 
documentation group should have the official decision on this as you are 
the experts on style and format.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 06:34, Marc Paré a écrit :

Some of us on the marketing and USmarketing teams are having a
discussion on usage and I thought that perhaps someone on the
documentation team could help us.

1. Use of "Euro". It was pointed out that the European Community had
issued its verdict saying that "Euro" should not be pluralized (i.e.
"Euros") in any situation. So, should we then standardize our use of
"Euro" to this for all documentation, website and marketing materials?

There was also a discussion, with no decision about the treatment of the
word "Euro". Would we write: 50 000 euro or 50 000 Euro or should we
rather write Euro 50 000 or euro 50 000 or EU50 000 ?

2. The setting of the the thousand separator and the decimal point.
There seems to be multiple acceptable usages. For example all of the
following seem to be correct:

50 000.05
50,000.05
50.000,05
50 000.05
50.000,05

Is there an already "agreed to" use of the thousand separator and
decimal point for the LibreOffice documentation team?

We could coordinate this throughout our documentation, website and
marketing teams.

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Decimal_separator
(this is Wikipedia's style manual -- do we have a LibreOffice style
manual that the documentation team follows?)

Cheers

Marc




Thanks to all for your advice.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 09:18, Alexander Thurgood a écrit :

Le 19/02/11 13:25, Marc Paré a écrit :

Hi Marc,


I think if we were to settle on a standard "LibreOffice international
style" then we could develop material that would not have to be
re-edited. Would we then use the "50,000.05 euro" in France or would it
be "50 000,05" euro?

Would it not make sense to standardise to a style that would be applied
to all three groups: documentation, website and marketing? I think the
documentation group should have the official decision on this as you are
the experts on style and format.


I don't think you will get "standardisation" along the lines you are
thinking because each person who will be translating for their target
audience will adapt the presentation to the needs of that country /
language. This has always been the way, and I don't know of any
translator who does it any other way.

If the documentation is in English, then let the English presentation
preside, ie, a comma for the thousands separator, and a dot/fullstop for
the decimals - as for space as a thousands separator, personally, I'm
not a fan, but that's just MHO.

As for Euro, the shortened form I see the most often is the standardised
banking form, i.e. EUR, much like GBP, USD, AUD, CDN, etc.

If I have to translate something from English to French I will correct
the presentation accordingly for that target and vice-versa.


Alex






Thanks Alex. The question was taken from the point of view of the 
international site or documentation, marketing materials for general 
use. But yes, tailor for groups is fine.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "Euro" "Euros" "euro" "euros" and thousand separator and decimal point

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 17:25, JDługosz a écrit :


Note that there are better characters than a plain space for separating
groups of digits!

Use "figure space" (U+2007) to make columns line up.
123456  vs  123456
12 456  vs  12 456
123 56  vs  123 45

Use "punctuation space" (U+2008) normally when using a space instead of a
comma/dot separator.  It is supposed to be the same width as one of those.
12,348,987   12 348 987  vs  12 348 987.

Or, use "thin space" (U+2009): 12 345 678  vs  12 345 678.  This usually
looks right in any font.



Ah! Good point on this. I'll try to remember this.

Thanks.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Terminology: "selecting" is not enough!

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-19 22:05, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi, :-)

Yes, we had the discussion about what variety of Engish to use a while
back. The consensus at the time was US spelling and terminology.

IMHO, one of the biggest aids to comprehensibility is careful and
thoughtful punctation.

But I also try not to be lazy in my English and to be careful about
relative pronouns [1] and subordinating conjunctions [2].

One good idea, as suggested by Barbara or Hal, is to build-up a
separate and brief glossary of terminology explaining our conventions.
It could be useful to end users but it would especially be an aid for
translators.

As I mentioned previously, "activate" and "deactivate" are terms I use
a lot, but I do tend to vary my vocabulary so that the style isn't too
stilted and wooden. I generally attribute two ha'porth of common sense
to the reader.

My 2 cents...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_pronoun
[2] http://englishplus.com/grammar/0377.htm

David Nelson



Hi David et al:

This is somewhat what I was wondering today. I thought that it would be 
useful if instead there were a "LibreOffice Style Manual" that we could 
all share between documentation, website, design and marketing. Such an 
example is the Google style manual pages[1]. All of the different NL 
groups could develop their own and these would be a point of reference 
for users and members when in search of usage, formatting or styling 
questions.


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Terminology: "selecting" is not enough!

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-20 01:30, Sophie Gautier a écrit :


The l10n teams have already style guides, glossaries, terminology and
TMX files. I can send you the French ones if you like (l10nFR section is
not up so not available for LO currently, only for OOo).
They are available to the Documentation and Marketing teams but not used
from what I've seen in the FR community, mostly because this is all
oriented for localization when they create their own material.
There is also the fact that the more you bind people to rules or
constraints, the less they are going to participate. The most important
is the respect of the UI labels, if the rest is different it's not very
important. Several communities have a lot of documentations,
developed/written in very different ways and users seems to find what
they need with that any way.

Kind regards
Sophie


Thanks Sophie for this information.

So, the point here it that there is no central location where we can 
find this information on our wiki. When people were with OOo, was this 
information posted publicly on the OOo wiki? Or is it just files that 
people pass on from one person to the next?


It would be interesting to have all that information (from all groups) 
just available on the wiki for public viewing and reference.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Terminology: "selecting" is not enough!

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-02-20 03:40, Sophie Gautier a écrit :

Hi Marc,
On 20/02/2011 11:31, Marc Paré wrote:
[...]


Thanks Sophie for this information.

So, the point here it that there is no central location where we can
find this information on our wiki. When people were with OOo, was this
information posted publicly on the OOo wiki? Or is it just files that
people pass on from one person to the next?

It would be interesting to have all that information (from all groups)
just available on the wiki for public viewing and reference.


It is on the OOo FR site and will be on the LibO FR wiki. The l1on
process was not organized yet so I didn't settle this part on the wiki
(most of the time I'm alone to work on it, so the need is not under
pressure ;-)
The central location for native language groups is their site and their
wiki, the international things most of the time have no interest for
them, this is not where they feel "at home".

Kind regards
Sophie


Ah. OK. So it will eventually be migrated onto our site. Thanks for all 
the work you do. We know that it takes a lot of time and that we are 
often a little impatient for the things we would like to have at our 
disposal. I can relate as I am trying to keep the Marketing section 
organized and it can often get really busy.


Maybe I'll check in on this later and if there is a need for any help in 
migrating the files from the OOo site I could help out.


Cheers and thanks

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation Team Leader?

[Marc Paré]

Hi Jean et al:

Le 2011-04-22 23:30, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Recently, several people have mentioned the need for a Docs team leader.
Some time ago, David Nelson urged me to take on that role. I declined,
choosing to stay in my role of Co-Lead at OpenOffice.org. Now, with
Oracle's recent announcement about turning OOo over to the community, I
am reconsidering my choices.

A question to you, the members of the LibreOffice Docs team (and other
interested people): in the hypothetical situation that I stick up my
hand for the Docs team leader role, would you consider me suitable?



+1



I'm also 100% in favour of maintaining the source docs for the user
guides in ODT format, which enables us to publish them in numerous
formats relatively quickly and easily. This is what we're doing now. (An
additional benefit is that using ODT files enables people to work on the
user guides without needing to have Internet access while doing the
work.) And lastly, writing documentation for an office suite using any
method other than the office suite itself strikes me as a very bad
advertisement for one's product.



I find it most important that we prove that LibreOffice may be used as a 
serious tool. Use the ODT format by the docs team in particular, 
presumably, entails the use of LibreOffice as the tool to create, 
design, modify and distribute. This also makes for a very strong and 
convincing argument when we (members of the marketing team) promote the 
suite.


I fully support your offer of help and lead(ership) proposal.

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Wiki pages missing

[Marc Paré]

Le 29/04/11 06:17 AM, C a écrit :

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:58, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

This page comes up completely blank,
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation

and several others don't show on the Category:Documentation list.

I assume this is related to the work David says he's doing to reorganise
that part of the wiki. If so, I hope they return soon, even if in an
abbreviated interim form.



A completely blank page can be triggered by a broken extension, a
badly coded Template, or something in the page content that triggers a
PHP error.  I'd bet that if whoever has access to the Wiki server goes
in and pokes the server logs - specifically the PHP and apache error
logs - they will see a segfault generated when someone tries to load
the page.

If I had to guess... it's a badly coded Template (eg infinite
recursion in a template will trigger this)

Subpages within the Documentation section are working... eg:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/ReferenceSystem

C



I posted about this problem yesterday on the website list[1]. Christian 
is looking into this. Jean, could you also add your name to the thread 
on the website list?


Cheers

Marc

[1] 
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.website/4580



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Printed copy of Writer Guide now available

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-05-01 10:19, Nino Novak a écrit :

Hi Jean,

On Sunday 01 May 2011 12:34, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

The printed edition of the LibreOffice Writer Guide is now available
from Friends of OpenDocument, Inc. The direct link is


http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/libreoffice-3-writer-guide/15593313

Shouldn't this be forwarded to the marketing list? They should know how
to propagate it best.

Just my 2¢

Nino

BTW: is there a documentation blog?



Hi Nino, Tom and Jean

I have added a link to a new wiki page "LibreOffice in Print" on the 
marketing pages. I have added this list to the main marketing wiki 
page.[1] Let me know if there should be more LibreOffice printed books 
added to the list.


BTW ... I had originally thought of linking to the Documentation wiki 
pages[2] but these do not itemize items in print version available at Lulu.


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
[2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation


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[libreoffice-documentation] Documentation wiki page -- Available_User_Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Thanks to whoever updated this page on the Documentation wiki page.

Once comment however, the fact that the individual chapters are 
available in .odt file format is not evident for those who visit this 
section. The website page[1] has a more descriptive-user-friendly format 
but has not updated the fact that these 2 volumes are available at Lulu's.


I would like to propose that the Documentation team adopt the same 
format as the Website page. If you agree could you then update the 
Documentation wiki page?[2]


Could the website page then be updated to the Documentation links of the 
print version sold at Lulu's?


I have also created a marketing wiki page[3] with a table and have 
updated it with the appropriate links.


[1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/
[2] 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Available_User_Documentation

[3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_In_Print


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation wiki page -- Available_User_Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Hi Jean

Le 2011-05-05 01:23, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :


I have also created a marketing wiki page[3] with a table and have
updated it with the appropriate links.


That was also on my to do list, but I'm glad you got to it first. :-)



Thanks for the help Jean. I can take care of the marketing page is its 
OK with you. I monitor the Documentation and Website lists and try to 
keep up with any newly published docs announcements.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Updating Documentation/Development page on wiki

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-05-05 01:03, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

I started updating this page, but ran into layout problems. The new
headings won't go beneath the tables, but instead end up beside them.
I've studied the Wiki Help and can't see what I'm doing wrong, so I
don't know if it's me or a bug or what.

In addition, it's all turned into HTML and the [[Media:]] links have
turned into a hrefs, which don't work for reaching an ODT file on the
wiki (which hasn't been uploaded yet).

I hope someone can sort this out, or tell me how to sort it out. I've
never encountered this problem before, and I'm far from a wiki expert.

--Jean




Hi Jean:

How does this look on my test wiki page[1]. If it look OK just choose 
"Source" on the WYSIWYG editor and copy/paste the code into your wiki 
page. It looks like the problem is that your tables were set to "left" 
and I just changed them to "not set" in the WYSIWYG editor.


Hope this helps.

Cheers

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/DeleteMeLater


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation wiki page -- Available_User_Documentation

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-05-05 02:17, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 01:59 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Jean

Le 2011-05-05 01:23, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :


I have also created a marketing wiki page[3] with a table and have
updated it with the appropriate links.


That was also on my to do list, but I'm glad you got to it first. :-)



Thanks for the help Jean. I can take care of the marketing page is its
OK with you. I monitor the Documentation and Website lists and try to
keep up with any newly published docs announcements.



Oh, I'm very happy to let you or anyone one take care of any pages!

I may tidy up your links to the printed books, though, because they are
much too convoluted, having come from a search results page... unless
you have a reason for preferring to include the search information in
the link?

Jean





Go ahead. Thanks!

Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Calc Guide chapters published to wiki

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-05-06 05:52, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

The Calc Guide chapters (ODT and PDF) are now on the wiki. I plan to
update the website get-help/documentation page tomorrow, if someone
doesn't get to it first.

Many thanks to Simon Brydon for his work on the Calc Guide, catching
lots of items that Barbara and I missed, and redoing a bunch of
screenshots.

Anyone who wants to, please feel free to do more reviewing/editing of
the Calc Guide chapters; those changes will be incorporated into the
next iteration. I've already got some info from Martin Fox to include in
Ch 13 for next time.

Moving on now to Draw (thanks, Martin Fox!), Impress (anyone?), and
Math...

--Jean




I have updated the marketing page[1] with the calc guide. Let me know 
once it makes it to the Lulu pages.


Thanks to all the documentation team for the excellent work!

Cheers

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_In_Print


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[libreoffice-documentation] Marketing Team now has a blog.

[Marc Paré]

I just thought I would leave a copy of this post that I wrote on the 
marketing list. Thanks to the Documentation team for inspiring us to 
setting up the blog on Wordpress. I also copied the introductory 
paragraph, theme and right column widgets from your blog as I thought it 
would add familiarity to the blogs for our visitors. Thanks 
Documentation team!


=== snip ==

During the last confcall, we discussed having a monthly [marketing] 
newsletter highlighting our accomplishments and news items related to 
LibreOffice marketing activities. Drew has graciously agreed to help out 
with this.


Following the lead from the Documentation Team, there was also an 
attempt on my part to see if there was any interest in creating a blog 
site for our team. If there is an interest in maintaining a blog could 
we have a show of hands as to how many would be willing to help 
contribute to the blog? Always best if there are many contributors as 
this creates buzz around our product.


In the meantime, I have created a blog site on the Wordpress site[1] 
where the Documentation Foundation and the new LibreOffice Documentation 
Team blogs are located.


=== snip ==

Cheers

Marc

[1] http://libomarketing.wordpress.com/



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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Categorising posts on the Docs blog

[Marc Paré]

Hi Jean et al:

Le 2011-05-13 21:59, Jean Weber a écrit :

On 14/05/2011, at 11:50, planas  wrote:


On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:20 -0400, John Shabanowitz wrote:


Are we going to use version 2.0 or 3.0? Is it good enough to cover the whole
blog? We can put the link in a text box in the sidebar with the posts are
solely the opinions of the authors and do not express official policy of The
Document Foundation nor LibreOffice.
*John Shabanowitz
http://libodocs.wordpress.com
We're recruiting, come join us.*
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Jean Weber  wrote:


We also need a copyright statement (the CC-BY-SA, I think it is) and a
statement that posts by individuals don't necessarily reflect official
policy. Not sure of wording of the latter and don't have time right now to
look it up.

--Jean




Should we all use a common copyright and disclaimer? You can see the 
copyright and disclaimer used on the main TDF blog site.[1] It's on the 
right hand side block. I'm working on the 
http://libomarketing.wordpress.com blog setup.


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://blog.documentfoundation.org/


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Apache OpenOffice.org

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-09 17:38, Jean Weber a écrit :

Rob Weir reports that there are 75 proposed committers signed up for
the Apache OpenOffice project.
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal

I don't know what this will mean for us in the OOo and LibO docs
groups, but I am concerned about the potential for further
fragmentation of a small group of docs people into working on several
projects.

We really need to work on better ways to reuse material without time
consuming rebranding -- by automating everything we can and choosing
not to do some non-essential things that can't be automated. I have a
paper mostly written on this topic, which I'll make available when I
get home late next week.

Jean



The list of committers include: "It is perfectly all right to have your 
name on this list if you contribute in another way than to commit 
program code (please maintain alphabetical ordering)". So, the list 
includes non-dev people. There is no breakdown in committer categories 
as it is most likely to their advantage to not do so. It gives people 
the impression that all on the list will advance the code ... or in our 
case, for the documentation team, that they may have a large 
documentation contingent or for the marketing team ... etc.


It is reasonable to expect that whoever had not moved to the 
TDF/LibreOffice would be interested in joining the new OpenOffice project.


The fact remains that, LibreOffice has now transplanted itself as the 
new codebase of choice and that the "Legacy of OpenOffice.org" chart on 
the ASF page has been rewritten and LibreOffice is now the new base from 
which adaptations will now be made of.


I wouldn't worry too much about the 75 or more committers. We are 
definitely on the right path and I have to say that it is a pleasure to 
contribute to LibreOffice and that, this, by itself, is one of the 
greatest reason why people will continue to join the TDF/LibreOffice 
project. The cooperation across the different teams as well as the 
quality of work and friendly exchange of ideas are the attractive 
elements that keep people interested in LibreOffice.


A big thanks to all contributors and to your future contributions to 
LibreOffice.


Cheers

Marc


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Apache OpenOffice.org

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-10 06:04, toki a écrit :


Existing OOo derivatives/variants are:
# FLOSS:
* GO-Oo; *** have joined Libreoffice
* BrOffice; *** have joined Libreoffice
* LibreOffice;
* OOo4Kids;
* OOoLight;
* OpenOffice.org;
* OxygenOffice;

# Proprietary:
* 602Office;
* Co-Create Office;
* EuroOffice;
* KaiOffice;
* MagyarOffice;
* MyOffice 2007;
* NeoOffice;
* NextOffice;
* OfficeOne;
* OpenOffice Pro;
* OpenOffice UX PL;
* OpenOffice PL;
* RedOffice;
* StarOffice/Oracle OpenOffice;
* Symphony;
* ThizOffice;
* UPOffice;
* WPOffice;

I put that list together, based on various pages on the web.  Not all of
those programs are still distributed.


jonathon
- --


Just thought I would add the two comments to the list. The comments are 
taken from their websites.


Cheers

Marc


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshot quality, Impress Chapter 3

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-16 06:47, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi Song Chuan,

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 18:26, ~*Low Song Chuan*~  wrote:

Hi all,

I've just updated Figure 4 to 10 with Clearlooks theme. I've also updated
Figure 22 with smaller font and thinner arrow. I've just installed
Ubuntu xp silver theme and work on other chapter with XP theme.

That's great. Thanks very much for your work on this.

We should try to coordinate the documentation team's  and website team's 
screenshot theme if we could. Could you point me to an example of a 
screenshot using the Clearlooks theme? For screenshots, the website team 
is using the following advice on our wikipage screenshots section[1]. 
You can see the results on the webiste pages 3.4 Features pages.[2] It 
would be nice if we could share the same "recommended method of taking a 
screenshot". We could maybe point to the same wiki page "advice on 
taking screenshots" section where these recommendations would be posted.


Cheers,

Marc


[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#Contribution_and_Support
[2] http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshots (Was: Screenshot quality, Impress Chapter 3

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-16 17:43, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 09:24 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:


We should try to coordinate the documentation team's  and website team's
screenshot theme if we could. Could you point me to an example of a
screenshot using the Clearlooks theme? For screenshots, the website team
is using the following advice on our wikipage screenshots section[1].
You can see the results on the webiste pages 3.4 Features pages.[2] It
would be nice if we could share the same "recommended method of taking a
screenshot". We could maybe point to the same wiki page "advice on
taking screenshots" section where these recommendations would be posted.

Cheers,

Marc


[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#Contribution_and_Support
[2] http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/


Marc,
Please see here for samples:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots

IMO the Clearlooks looks better for website display, but XP-Silver is
better for the user guides.

I haven't had time to review your links, and I have to go out now for
several hours. I'll get back to this when I can.

--Jean


Thanks for the sample. I'll see if I can find an equivalent for my 
Mageia Kde 4.6.3.


We should work of the same standards to add conformity to our 
screenshots. It would be great if we could work off the same wiki page 
describing the agreed to standards for screenshots. Maybe the link I 
sent you could be this wiki site where we could coordinate these 
standards as the design team also access these pages.


Cheers

Marc

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshots

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-17 16:58, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Thanks for the sample. I'll see if I can find an equivalent for my
Mageia Kde 4.6.3.

We should work of the same standards to add conformity to our
screenshots. It would be great if we could work off the same wiki page
describing the agreed to standards for screenshots. Maybe the link I
sent you could be this wiki site where we could coordinate these
standards as the design team also access these pages.


I'll look at that when I can, Marc, but to be honest I don't think there
is much if any overlap between the screenshots necessary/appropriate for
the website and marketing efforts, and the screenshots necessary for the
user guides. I have no objection to using the same standards if they
work for both situations, but I don't see any real reason or need for
conformity beween the two. Of course, I may be missing something.

And, also of course, it's not my decision. I'm only an opinionated,
outspoken advisor. :-)

--Jean



Thanks for the reply. I'll keep an eye on the choice of theme colours 
that you use. In the meantime, I'll give the Clearlooks theme a closer 
look and will not suggest a change to the theme that we (website 
members) are following at this time unless the advantages are worth the 
change. Maybe later we could revisit this and talk it over if this is 
thought of as being worthwhile.


Cheers

Marc

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http://www.parEntreprise.com


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshots

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-17 17:43, Marc Paré a écrit :

Le 2011-06-17 16:58, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Thanks for the sample. I'll see if I can find an equivalent for my
Mageia Kde 4.6.3.

We should work of the same standards to add conformity to our
screenshots. It would be great if we could work off the same wiki page
describing the agreed to standards for screenshots. Maybe the link I
sent you could be this wiki site where we could coordinate these
standards as the design team also access these pages.


I'll look at that when I can, Marc, but to be honest I don't think there
is much if any overlap between the screenshots necessary/appropriate for
the website and marketing efforts, and the screenshots necessary for the
user guides. I have no objection to using the same standards if they
work for both situations, but I don't see any real reason or need for
conformity beween the two. Of course, I may be missing something.

And, also of course, it's not my decision. I'm only an opinionated,
outspoken advisor. :-)

--Jean



Thanks for the reply. I'll keep an eye on the choice of theme colours 
that you use. In the meantime, I'll give the Clearlooks theme a closer 
look and will not suggest a change to the theme that we (website 
members) are following at this time unless the advantages are worth 
the change. Maybe later we could revisit this and talk it over if this 
is thought of as being worthwhile.


Cheers

Marc

BTW ... is there a download page where I can find the XP-Silver theme 
from Michele Zarri?


Cheers,

Marc

--
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http://www.parEntreprise.com


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshots

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-18 00:30, ~*Low Song Chuan*~ a écrit :

Hi Marc,

The XP silver theme can be found at Alfresco. Located at English 
Doumentation>Resource section

Regards
Song Chuan


Thanks, I got it. :-)

Cheers

Marc

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Screenshots

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-18 17:07, David B Teague sr a écrit :

On 6/18/2011 12:30 AM, ~*Low Song Chuan*~ wrote:

Hi Marc,

The XP silver theme can be found at Alfresco. Located at English 
Doumentation>Resource section


Regards
Song Chuan


Can you supply a URL?
David

It is also found on the Production wiki page here: 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots


Cheers

Marc

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[libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Magazine International is organizing with sign-up sheet

[Marc Paré]

With the help of the *Brazilian team*, an effort to organize an 
international version of LibreOffice Magazine has been created.


If you are interested in participating, on a regular basis, to the 
production of the "LibreOffice Magazine International" (the 
international EN version) please feel free to sign-up on this page[1]. 
As there are many different posts to fill, it would greatly help if you 
could let us know of any skills that you wish to bring to the project. 
Feel free to view the "LibreOffice Magazine Brasil -- Collaborators 
<http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/PT-BR/Colaboradores>" page for an 
example of some of the tasks that you may be able to fill. We should 
also acknowledge the Brazilian team who has offered its help and 
expertise with the production/structure of the magazine.


You must be willing to use the LibreOffice suite as the tool of choice 
for the full production -- Writer and Draw are the modules most used in 
the production of the magazine. The LibreOffice suite is the tool by 
which the magazine will showcase its abilities to serve as a 
professional tool.


Cheers,

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/MagazineInternational

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[libreoffice-documentation] Apologies for multiple messages

[Marc Paré]

My apologies to the list. I don't know how, but there seems to have been 
multiple messages re: LibreOffice Magazine International sent to the 
list. Sorry for the diruption.


Cheers

Marc

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Magazine International is organizing with sign-up sheet

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-20 17:31, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 09:06 -0400, Marc Paré wrote:

With the help of the *Brazilian team*, an effort to organize an
international version of LibreOffice Magazine has been created.

If you are interested in participating, on a regular basis, to the
production of the "LibreOffice Magazine International" (the
international EN version) please feel free to sign-up on this page[1].
As there are many different posts to fill, it would greatly help if you
could let us know of any skills that you wish to bring to the project.
Feel free to view the "LibreOffice Magazine Brasil -- Collaborators
<http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/PT-BR/Colaboradores>" page for an
example of some of the tasks that you may be able to fill. We should
also acknowledge the Brazilian team who has offered its help and
expertise with the production/structure of the magazine.

You must be willing to use the LibreOffice suite as the tool of choice
for the full production -- Writer and Draw are the modules most used in
the production of the magazine. The LibreOffice suite is the tool by
which the magazine will showcase its abilities to serve as a
professional tool.

Cheers,

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/MagazineInternational

--
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http://www.parEntreprise.com



OMG! Something else I would very much like to be involved in. ;-)

--Jean


Well, if you wanna have sum fun! join up! Tea and crumpets on Sundays, 
exotic coffees and herbal tea breaks during weekdays and strawberry 
parfaits on Saturdays! Oh and we will be doing some articling and 
designing too! :-)


Cheers

Marc

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Update on Calc Guide: printed version published

[Marc Paré]

Le 2011-06-20 20:49, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit :

Thanks to the work by John Cleland in compiling the book, the ODT and
PDF versions of the compiled Calc Guide went on the wiki (with links
from the website) yesterday. And of course they were first in Alfresco.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/

Friends of OpenDocument Inc has now published the for-sale printed
version:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/libreoffice-3-calc-guide/16075944

I'll mention this book's availability on the LiboDocs blog today.

I'll also add links from the website to the Math Guide ODT and PDF on
the wiki and publish a printed version, possibly later today.

--Jean



Thanks to all for this.

FYI, I have now changed the "LibreOffice in Print" link on the Marketing 
wiki page[1] to point to the Documentation page[2].


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
[2] 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Available_User_Documentation


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