Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports.. (David Willmore)
Howzit? I see that there is a very active development community and three big projects in the works (radeon, radeon TL, and mach64). Yes I've slowly realise that this is what goes on in the DRI project, a thought has been rattling around in my head of late of a simple list of who is working on what project and more specifically what they are doing eg fixing bug xyz, adding feature abc, etc. That might make it easier for new developers who come along and say I want to help on xyz / abc and he can be referred to some one relevant. Might be a good idea to keep the list private, to prevent developers being swamped by email, bug reports, etc. Hey Jens? g The re-write of the web pages should help, as well. The recent discussion on what the data/call flow charts should look like--if captured on the web site--would be an invaluable resource to get more 'power users' bootstrapped. That's the plan it is progressing, although the guy doing the website itself is a little busy at the moment. Update the web site. Having an almost undocumented web page with nightly tarballs or anon CVS access is pretty user hostile. This is all part of the plan. Oh, and I have an nVidia Riva ZX that nVidia doesn't care to support. Anyone want it? Nice little 8M AGP card looking for a loving developer... ;) A loving developer - that defnitely counts me out. g Liam it depends ___ Don't miss the 2002 Sprint PCS Application Developer's Conference August 25-28 in Las Vegas - http://devcon.sprintpcs.com/adp/index.cfm?source=osdntextlink ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
[Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Secondly, does anyone regularly go through the bug reports on sourceforge? There are a huge number of bug reports, some from over two years ago, that should probably be closed :-) Adam ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:57:37PM -0400, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Keith fixed a problem with line loops that was causing crashes. It now works for me (more importantly for the 3yo who actually wants to play ita) It still crashes for Keith (at least as of Monday). -- Michael. ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On 2002.06.12 17:57 Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Secondly, does anyone regularly go through the bug reports on sourceforge? There are a huge number of bug reports, some from over two years ago, that should probably be closed :-) Adam I offered myself to do this on my spare time sometime ago, but so far I just handled a handfull of bugs (more recent ones). I think that there are two things that we must address to really solve this situation: - First, and more important, the current DRI developers must commit themselves to give answers to the bug reports. This applies not only to the SF bug report pages, but also to those made via the dri-users mailing list (where many questions are left unanswered..). - Second, we must agree on policy to clear old reports so that we can make a fresh start from now. Without these two items fullfiled any thing that we may do now regarding this will be doomed to failure, IMHO. José Fonseca ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
José Fonseca wrote: On 2002.06.12 17:57 Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Secondly, does anyone regularly go through the bug reports on sourceforge? There are a huge number of bug reports, some from over two years ago, that should probably be closed :-) Adam I offered myself to do this on my spare time sometime ago, but so far I just handled a handfull of bugs (more recent ones). I think that there are two things that we must address to really solve this situation: - First, and more important, the current DRI developers must commit themselves to give answers to the bug reports. This applies not only to the SF bug report pages, but also to those made via the dri-users mailing list (where many questions are left unanswered..). - Second, we must agree on policy to clear old reports so that we can make a fresh start from now. Without these two items fullfiled any thing that we may do now regarding this will be doomed to failure, IMHO. I'm just in general not a big fan of the bug tracker. I've got a bunch of bugs that I can choose from at any time without having to go through some web form that requires me to log in and wait for slow queries. It doesn't give *me* anything. It is in some ways counter-productive. People expect putting a report in there to have an effect, but it's actually less interactive than email, harder to get correct details (like half the reports are from Nobody, for instance), harder to find out the real problem. I actually think it should be disabled, destroyed, dismembered. Keith ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
José Fonseca wrote: On 2002.06.12 17:57 Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Secondly, does anyone regularly go through the bug reports on sourceforge? There are a huge number of bug reports, some from over two years ago, that should probably be closed :-) Adam I offered myself to do this on my spare time sometime ago, but so far I just handled a handfull of bugs (more recent ones). I think that there are two things that we must address to really solve this situation: - First, and more important, the current DRI developers must commit themselves to give answers to the bug reports. This applies not only to the SF bug report pages, but also to those made via the dri-users mailing list (where many questions are left unanswered..). The dri-users list was founded on the idea that there might be a class of 'power users' out there who would altruistically help newbies get their setup working so that 'real developers' could concentrate on loftier ideas. That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. Again - I think the people on dri-users would be better off just posting to dri-devel. As it looks like we've got to monitor both lists, why bother having a second list? I know I give less attention to posts with [dri-users] than [dri-devel] -- perhaps I think that people posting there will never do any development, so I won't be repayed by spending my time on them. Shut it down, let them post on dri-devel. Keith ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On 2002.06.12 18:42 Keith Whitwell wrote: ... I'm just in general not a big fan of the bug tracker. I've got a bunch of bugs that I can choose from at any time without having to go through some web form that requires me to log in and wait for slow queries. It doesn't give *me* anything. The SF bug tracker is not as pratical as, e.g., bugzilla, not even close... The main advantages of having a bug tracking system is that users can search for duplicate problems, and that developers can know which bugs are still unsolved. But with the current state of affairs neither actually verifies! It is in some ways counter-productive. People expect putting a report in there to have an effect, but it's actually less interactive than email, harder to get correct details (like half the reports are from Nobody, for instance), harder to find out the real problem. I also felt the same when I tried to answer to some bug reports. It does get in the way... I actually think it should be disabled, destroyed, dismembered. If nobody else is paying attention to the SF bugtrack system, then we should really close it. (Personally, I think that it even may be the best to do.) But then more developers should equally subscribe to the dri-users mailing list and give answers to the user's problems there... José Fonseca ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On 2002.06.12 18:49 Keith Whitwell wrote: ... I totally disagree here... The dri-users list was founded on the idea that there might be a class of 'power users' out there who would altruistically help newbies get their setup working so that 'real developers' could concentrate on loftier ideas. That would be indeed nice, but when that doesn't happen I think we should give them a help. If the developers were the only consumers of the the DRI drivers, then why bothering having a webpage, user FAQs, user manuals, users installation guides, etc.? (Unless that's only to catch more developers..) That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. I noticed several times that users do answer to other users when they know the answer. It seems that most of that class of power users has migrated to dri-devel, by force of the circunstances, i.e., because it was there where all developers where... Again - I think the people on dri-users would be better off just posting to dri-devel. As it looks like we've got to monitor both lists, why bother having a second list? I know I give less attention to posts with To separate the development issues from, .e.g, installation problems. I personally wouldn't like to have my dri-devel mbox full with cryies for help - if that happened I effectively would make my procmail seperate those into another mbox. In theory, dri-devel should be mainly for communication between all developers and beta-testers. The dri-users should be for everybody else. This is what I see in many other projects and it works quite well. [dri-users] than [dri-devel] -- perhaps I think that people posting there will never do any development, so I won't be repayed by spending my time on them. So if they post to dri-devel then somehow they are qualified as developers and will actually do anything!? Shut it down, let them post on dri-devel. Yeah! Let's burn Rome! ;o) Keith I personally think we shouldn't do this, but I'll go for what the majority decides - after all it's what's the majority will do in the end that will really matter. So, speak up now, or forever remain quiet... José Fonseca ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On 2002.06.12 19:31 Keith Whitwell wrote: José Fonseca wrote: ... To separate the development issues from, .e.g, installation problems. I personally wouldn't like to have my dri-devel mbox full with cryies for help - if that happened I effectively would make my procmail seperate those into another mbox. Yes, like all that mach64 stuff... (big smilie) Hey! :o That's really insensitive of you... it hit right on the heart! :-) I also put up with all that radeon stuff! (I even read some of it.. what a heresy!:) ... José Fonseca ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 07:31:29 +0100, Keith Whitwell wrote: Yeah! Let's burn Rome! ;o) OK, maybe I'm getting carried away. But as I see it, there aren't many people in total on dri_devel+dri_users. The only people who can really answer dri_users questions are on dri_devel anyway. Why have two lists? I agree with Keith here (speaking as the list administrator too :) ) We also have dri-announce which doesn't get used at all. We always make announcements by posting to dri-users/dri-devel. So we might as well delete that one too. Alan. ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
I personally think we shouldn't do this, but I'll go for what the majority decides - after all it's what's the majority will do in the end that will really matter. So, speak up now, or forever remain quiet... I think if someone posts a good bug report, maybe even 1/2 a fix and is willing to play around and most important of all tests the fixes that are done and reports back, then it probably doesn't matter where they post or who/what they are. The rest deserve redhat and bugzilla ;o) -- Michael. ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On Wednesday 12 June 2002 19:49, Keith Whitwell wrote: The dri-users list was founded on the idea that there might be a class of 'power users' out there who would altruistically help newbies get their setup working so that 'real developers' could concentrate on loftier ideas. That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. Again - I think the people on dri-users would be better off just posting to dri-devel. As it looks like we've got to monitor both lists, why bother having a second list? I know I give less attention to posts with [dri-users] than [dri-devel] -- perhaps I think that people posting there will never do any development, so I won't be repayed by spending my time on them. Please also look it from the other side : do the dri users want to get the dri devel mails ? That could just be a bit to much mail pouring into their mailboxes that doesn't help them anyway. If you want my opinion, I vote for users devel and damn close that bugtracking system. Look at what the KDE people use for bug tracking, now that's what i call neat (together with the nice KCrash backtracer). http://bugs.kde.org/ Peter Shut it down, let them post on dri-devel. Keith ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
Peter Soetens (Kaltan) wrote: On Wednesday 12 June 2002 19:49, Keith Whitwell wrote: The dri-users list was founded on the idea that there might be a class of 'power users' out there who would altruistically help newbies get their setup working so that 'real developers' could concentrate on loftier ideas. That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. Again - I think the people on dri-users would be better off just posting to dri-devel. As it looks like we've got to monitor both lists, why bother having a second list? I know I give less attention to posts with [dri-users] than [dri-devel] -- perhaps I think that people posting there will never do any development, so I won't be repayed by spending my time on them. Please also look it from the other side : do the dri users want to get the dri devel mails ? That could just be a bit to much mail pouring into their mailboxes that doesn't help them anyway. If you want my opinion, I vote for users devel Peter has a point, here. Besides, what's the difference between tracking 20 e-mails on one list and 5 e-mails on a second list; vs 25 e-mails on a common list? Perhaps I'm showing my lack of sophisticaed e-mail prowess :-) and damn close that bugtracking system. Look at what the KDE people use for bug tracking, now that's what i call neat (together with the nice KCrash backtracer). http://bugs.kde.org/ I'm certainly as guilty as anyone for letting the cruft build up in the SF bug tracker. However, from a TG commercial perspective, I will need to closely track all bugs specifically related for certain DRI projects. I can track those on a private internal database, or I can do it on an open DRI database. Either will work for me. However, I do think tracking on an open DRI database would be better for the DRI project; and I would prefer to use the slow SF bug database then take on the much larger task of setting up a new system. -- /\ Jens Owen/ \/\ _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ \ \ Steamboat Springs, Colorado ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 02:28:45 -0600, Jens Owen wrote: Peter Soetens (Kaltan) wrote: On Wednesday 12 June 2002 19:49, Keith Whitwell wrote: The dri-users list was founded on the idea that there might be a class of 'power users' out there who would altruistically help newbies get their setup working so that 'real developers' could concentrate on loftier ideas. That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. Again - I think the people on dri-users would be better off just posting to dri-devel. As it looks like we've got to monitor both lists, why bother having a second list? I know I give less attention to posts with [dri-users] than [dri-devel] -- perhaps I think that people posting there will never do any development, so I won't be repayed by spending my time on them. Please also look it from the other side : do the dri users want to get the dri devel mails ? That could just be a bit to much mail pouring into their mailboxes that doesn't help them anyway. If you want my opinion, I vote for users devel Peter has a point, here. Besides, what's the difference between tracking 20 e-mails on one list and 5 e-mails on a second list; vs 25 e-mails on a common list? Perhaps I'm showing my lack of sophisticaed e-mail prowess :-) I'm wondering what dri-users actually serves at the moment. What proportion of the people there are actually compiling up the DRI trunk and actively testing it ? Or are using stock XFree86 4.2.0 and asking questions there instead ? I suspect that it may be better for those people not using the DRI trunk to post to the xpert list at XFree86 to answer questions like that. That way they get a broader audience. Most(?) of the dri developers are on xpert too. Yes ? I bet most dri developers get a ton of email already. I certainly do. :) And if people are really compiling the DRI trunk, I would appreciate any feedback - bad or good on dri-devel. and damn close that bugtracking system. Look at what the KDE people use for bug tracking, now that's what i call neat (together with the nice KCrash backtracer). http://bugs.kde.org/ I'm certainly as guilty as anyone for letting the cruft build up in the SF bug tracker. However, from a TG commercial perspective, I will need to closely track all bugs specifically related for certain DRI projects. I can track those on a private internal database, or I can do it on an open DRI database. Either will work for me. However, I do think tracking on an open DRI database would be better for the DRI project; and I would prefer to use the slow SF bug database then take on the much larger task of setting up a new system. We really need to clean up the stuff on SF now. Probably about 90% don't even apply now, or should at least be re-tested. Alan. ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
For what it's worth, it runs great now here. I've actually finished a game or two without any lockups. Adam On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Michael wrote: On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:57:37PM -0400, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: Two quick questions :-) First, can anyone tell me if the issues with tuxkart and the Radeon driver from the TCL branch (well, now the trunk) have been fixed? Keith fixed a problem with line loops that was causing crashes. It now works for me (more importantly for the 3yo who actually wants to play ita) It still crashes for Keith (at least as of Monday). -- Michael. ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
On 2002.06.12 21:53 Alan Hourihane wrote: On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 02:28:45 -0600, Jens Owen wrote: ... I'm certainly as guilty as anyone for letting the cruft build up in the SF bug tracker. However, from a TG commercial perspective, I will need to closely track all bugs specifically related for certain DRI projects. I can track those on a private internal database, or I can do it on an open DRI database. Either will work for me. However, I do think tracking on an open DRI database would be better for the DRI project; and I would prefer to use the slow SF bug database then take on the much larger task of setting up a new system. Jens, although I understand that TG needs to track bugs, this by itself isn't enough to guarantee that the SF bug database is adequate. Even if we do clean it as Alan suggests, unless everyone agrees to give it the proper use [and acts accordingly after] then it's just a matter of time to everything happens again, and everyone will loose: - users have 3 places to post bugs, and it's not clear which is ideal (it's not the first time I read on dri-devel I already posted this on dri-users but got no answer...) - developers have three places to monitor where at least of them [SF bug database] doesn't appeal to them, so it will be ignored most of the time. - TG doesn't have a real bug database as most of the bugs eventually get reported on dri-devel [where they are most likely answered], and most of those which are reported on SF probably aren't valid or close since no one really looks at them. What TG gets it's a endless list of problems reports which requires annual maintainance [in other words, removal...] I really hoped from this discussion that this wouldn't happen, i.e., making the same mistakes 2nd time... We really need to clean up the stuff on SF now. Probably about 90% don't even apply now, or should at least be re-tested. If the SF bug database goes on, then I may ask: Who here plans to plans to answer and follow the bug reports? I'd prefer that we _truly_ agree on a viable solution rather than just appearently agree on an assumed impossible solution... Well, just my 2c... José Fonseca ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
Keith Whitwell wrote: OK, maybe I'm getting carried away. But as I see it, there aren't many people in total on dri_devel+dri_users. The only people who can really answer dri_users questions are on dri_devel anyway. Why have two lists? There aren't a great number of dri_users questions anyway and a good percentage of them probably should be on dri_devel as it stands now (they're proper bugs, or whatever). So, I guess I still think the second list: - doesn't serve it's intended audience well - doesn't save us any time (except by making it easier to ignore users). But, I don't feel anywhere near as strongly about this as about the sourceforge bug tracker. I can live with either outcome. I started on dri-users. There was very little traffic. What traffic there was seemed to be questions that sometimes got answered. The FAQ was out of date, the web site was out of date, looking at the downloads for the project only served to confuse people... So, I lurked for a few months. After getting dri working on a few of my machines, and seeing that there was actual motion on the mach64 driver, I joined dri-devel to see what was happening. That helped a lot. I initally wanted to disagree with Keith that the lists should be merged, but it might solve the problem I had--that there is just too little information available to the dri-users and there is no indication that anything is happening. I was quite dissapoinited with dri-users for that. Since I sub'd to dri-devel, I see that there is a very active development community and three big projects in the works (radeon, radeon TL, and mach64). There's no hint of this in the dri-users world. Since I own a Radeon QD and a Mach64 (Rage LT Pro), I was delighted to see the work that is going on and have already run some beta testing on the mach64. I guess what I'd like to say is that there is reason to have dri-users and dri-devel seperate as they have different uses. dri-users is more for startup and newbie questions. dri-devel is for developers to converse. And, yes, there should be a crowd of 'power users' spanning the bridge, but that takes time to develop. I'm starting to feel comfortable enough with the DRI to be able to help out over there and I only expect that to increase. The re-write of the web pages should help, as well. The recent discussion on what the data/call flow charts should look like--if captured on the web site--would be an invaluable resource to get more 'power users' bootstrapped. The problem with this subject is the same as it's always been in graphics--there are those who know a bunch and get *real work* done and the rest who are within one step (above or below) clueless. There isn't much middle ground. It took the better part of a decade for linux-kernel to build up that middle ground of power users. I wouldn't expect it to happen over night for DRI. So, I'd recommend that things keep on like they have been. Keep the lists as they are. Update the web site. Distribute some point release betas of code (not just nightly tar balls or CVS--those are almost useless to the would be power user). Announce the code releases. Having an almost un- documented web page with nightly tarballs or anon CVS access is pretty user- hostile. Now that TL is merged, how about a point beta? Shake up the dri-users. Sounds like the Mach64 code hand grenade just got the pin put back in-- how about a point beta? Oh, and I have an nVidia Riva ZX that nVidia doesn't care to support. Anyone want it? Nice little 8M AGP card looking for a loving developer... ;) Cheers, David ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
There aren't a great number of dri_users questions anyway and a good=20 percentage of them probably should be on dri_devel as it stands now (they= 're=20 proper bugs, or whatever). So, I guess I still think the second list: - doesn't serve it's intended audience well - doesn't save us any time (except by making it easier to ignore users). But, I don't feel anywhere near as strongly about this as about the=20 sourceforge bug tracker. I can live with either outcome. One thing that you might want to explore is closing off dri-devel from the average user and trying to shift a majority of the traffic to dri-users and keep dri-devel strictly on the development side of dri instead of having it double as a help mailing list. Just my $.02. -- John Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; AOL IM: ogre7929 http://ogre.rocky-road.net http://ogre.rocky-road.net/cdr.shtml ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
--- José Fonseca [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2002.06.12 18:49 Keith Whitwell wrote: ... I totally disagree here... That class of power users haven't really emerged, if anything it is the power users who are crying for help in the blackness of dri-users, as everyone else just sucks whatever comes with their distro. I had several problems with Debian and the TCL branch, whitch I worked ought. I noticed several times that users do answer to other users when they know the answer. It seems that most of that class of power users has migrated to dri-devel, by force of the circunstances, i.e., because it was there where all developers where... Agreed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
Re: [Dri-devel] tuxkart, and bug reports..
--- David Willmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith Whitwell wrote: OK, maybe I'm getting carried away. But as I see it, there aren't many people in total on dri_devel+dri_users. The only people who can really answer dri_users questions are on dri_devel anyway. Why have two lists? There aren't a great number of dri_users questions anyway and a good percentage of them probably should be on dri_devel as it stands now (they're proper bugs, or whatever). So, I guess I still think the second list: - doesn't serve it's intended audience well - doesn't save us any time (except by making it easier to ignore users). But, I don't feel anywhere near as strongly about this as about the sourceforge bug tracker. I can live with either outcome. I guess what I'd like to say is that there is reason to have dri-users and dri-devel seperate as they have different uses. dri-users is more for startup and newbie questions. dri-devel is for developers to converse. And, yes, there should be a crowd of 'power users' spanning the bridge, but that takes time to develop. I'm starting to feel comfortable enough with the DRI to be able to help out over there and I only expect that to increase. The re-write of the web pages should help, as well. The recent discussion on what the data/call flow charts should look like--if captured on the web site--would be an invaluable resource to get more 'power users' bootstrapped. So, I'd recommend that things keep on like they have been. Keep the lists as they are. Update the web site. Distribute some point release betas of code (not just nightly tar balls or CVS--those are almost useless to the would be power user). Announce the code releases. Having an almost un- documented web page with nightly tarballs or anon CVS access is pretty user- hostile. Now that TL is merged, how about a point beta? Shake up the dri-users. Sounds like the Mach64 code hand grenade just got the pin put back in-- how about a point beta? Oh, and I have an nVidia Riva ZX that nVidia doesn't care to support. Anyone want it? Nice little 8M AGP card looking for a loving developer... ;) Cheers, David I'd like to see some point releases as it sits now I just take a weekly snapshot whenever I get the chance. It would be nice to know if there is some new feature just added that I should test, dri-devel gives me this. As for dri-users I like having them both. I however can't see having both dri-users and SFBT. I can start answering questions posted to dri-users, should I also keep an eye on the SFBT? __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ___ Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ ___ Dri-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dri-devel
