Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Great ideas except for number 2. A single, 1, then 2, then 3, etc. would just be more frustrating. If you don't get through on that one call, then you must wait through nine more qso's before calling again. I would prefer to wait for the 3's, then get a number of tries at it. 73, Tim - N3XX - Original Message - From: "Charles Harpole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:54 AM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The answer to this question is MAKE BETTER DXPEDITION OPERATORS. The main reason ordinarily placid people become "caller mad men" is simple FRUSTRATION ! How to reduce frustration? 1. The DX op must be a general, establish a calling pattern and never never vary. 2. The DX op should call by numbers in this way call one one and then one two and then one three, and so on. This method has many benefits the largest of which is it reduces the FRUSTRATION level of the callers 90% of the bad callers are just regular people who have been driven temporarily crazy by a bad DX operator's methods. The other 10% are just crazy, probably at birth. Results of "call by numbers" are: -Makes absolutely clear when one should call no ambiguity which leads to FRUSTRATION. -Allows callers to break away from the rig for a few minutes to get coffee or something without losing any calling time. A break reduces FRUSTRATION. -This method eliminates the gripes that "he is favoring JA or he is only working the East Coast when my area is really in the best propagation now." All "ones" are equal this way yielding lowered FRUSTRATION. -The DX op can slightly vary from this pattern if there are vastly more of one number than all others. 3. DX op must establish a reasonable split (10 kc?) and must MOVE FREQ AFTER EVERY QSO and move in the same direction. This is a pain for the DX op, but it REDUCES FRUSTRATION because callers can select a freq and STAY THERE instead of doing the guessing game and moving around a lot. This eliminates tail-enders --which, when taken, increases other callers' FRUSTRATION. It also eliminates the extra deep pile on the freq. where a good QSO was just completed. (The time lost in moving freq. is made up by a more orderly pile up.) 4. The DX op should give QSL info and state his op method every half hour. Anyone can wait a half hour and knowing the info is on sked reduces FRUSTRATION. 5. The DX op must NEVER call a partial and then go back to someone else with none of the first letters nor numbers Bad Example is "QRZ the W3" and then "G7XXX ur 59" . The op must stick with his "partial" forever if it takes that, otherwise there is no reason to stand by if the DX is just going to take anyone regardless of his "directed QRZ." 6 and a pet complaint do not claim u r at a DX location "to do propagation experiments" and then send only 5-9 sig reports. Oh, well. Hams who live near frequent offenders must take it on themselves to take the bad guy to lunch (ideally in a group) and gently get to the point of his bad ops. Suggest alternatives, be helpful, but pass the message that we hear u and do not like it IN PERSON. 73, Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
This is the best I´ve read so far! So true, so true! Thank´s 73 Jim SM2EKM -- Pete D'Elia wrote: 98% of the operators going to rare & semi-rare entities are very good at what they do. 99% of the problems with these operations are caused by us, the callers, by not following DXpedition's instructions & requests, callers not knowing there own call signs, call area, country or continent, 20 people screaming up, lid, or 59 to some guy that forget to check which VFO he was on, etc.. That's what really slows the rate down. It's like a child saying they didn't get good grades, because it was the teacher fault. They won't admit that they didn't pay attention, follow instructions or study. Most of us, including myself forget that these ops are typically in extremely hot or cold climates, sleeping in tents, constant generator noises, running to filling generators, using temporary stations/antennas, physically and mentally drained from hauling, setting up and anticipating breakdown, sleep deprived, constant buzz saw noise of thousands constantly calling and fitting off insects and rodents. With all that, they must be thrilled to hear, what about 2s you skipped over us, why are working JAs instead of NA, is this an SSB operation only - why, you worked eight 1s and only six 2s, your splits to wide, can you go to 12 CW right now I need you there, listen for my friend he's going to call you next, are you going to use LoTW, etc. by of a bunch of guys sitting in their comfortable shacks. Whoever is going or pay the bills should have the final word on how they want to run THEIR operation. All we should say to them is; thank you for being there, I appreciate your sacrifice, expense and what you're doing for us. 73 Pete N2LM - Original Message - From: Dan Zimmerman N3OX<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org<mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The US call districts are still mostly populated by the right numbers, though this is a good point, especially when taken worldwide. Calling one 1 and then one 2 and one 3 and so forth has the advantage of NOT taking into account propagation (you're not trying to get only 1's, 2's, 3's before the band closes) What it does do if done correctly is slashes the pileup size on average by a factor of TEN and makes the other 9 numbers very patient because they know that in a few QSO's they get their chance. They can, as Charlie said, go get some coffee, or they can spend the next nine QSO's listening and coming up with a calling strategy. It takes the pressure off. It's less stressful than taking ten or twenty from each district as propagation fades out. Having worked DXpeditions that are using this method, I think it's a great way to thin a pileup. Since a lot of successful pileup breaking is listening and thinking, this gives you 9 out of every 10 QSO's to work on that instead of yelling into the microphone. 73, Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat<http://njdxa.org/dx-chat> To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org<mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org<http://njdxa.org/> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
98% of the operators going to rare & semi-rare entities are very good at what they do. 99% of the problems with these operations are caused by us, the callers, by not following DXpeditions instructions & requests, callers not knowing there own call signs, call area, country or continent, 20 people screaming up, lid, or 59 to some guy that forget to check which VFO he was on, etc.. Thats what really slows the rate down. Its like a child saying they didnt get good grades, because it was the teacher fault. They wont admit that they didnt pay attention, follow instructions or study. Most of us, including myself forget that these ops are typically in extremely hot or cold climates, sleeping in tents, constant generator noises, running to filling generators, using temporary stations/antennas, physically and mentally drained from hauling, setting up and anticipating breakdown, sleep deprived, constant buzz saw noise of thousands constantly calling and fitting off insects and rodents. With all that, they must be thrilled to hear, what about 2s you skipped over us, why are working JAs instead of NA, is this an SSB operation only - why, you worked eight 1s and only six 2s, your splits to wide, can you go to 12 CW right now I need you there, listen for my friend he's going to call you next, are you going to use LoTW, etc. by of a bunch of guys sitting in their comfortable shacks. Whoever is going or pay the bills should have the final word on how they want to run THEIR operation. All we should say to them is; thank you for being there, I appreciate your sacrifice, expense and what you're doing for us. 73 Pete N2LM - Original Message - From: Dan Zimmerman N3OX To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The US call districts are still mostly populated by the right numbers,though this is a good point, especially when taken worldwide.Calling one 1 and then one 2 and one 3 and so forth has the advantageof NOT taking into account propagation (you're not trying to get only1's, 2's, 3's before the band closes)What it does do if done correctly is slashes the pileup size onaverage by a factor of TEN and makes the other 9 numbers very patientbecause they know that in a few QSO's they get their chance.They can, as Charlie said, go get some coffee, or they can spend thenext nine QSO's listening and coming up with a calling strategy. Ittakes the pressure off. It's less stressful than taking ten or twentyfrom each district as propagation fades out. Having workedDXpeditions that are using this method, I think it's a great way tothin a pileup. Since a lot of successful pileup breaking is listeningand thinking, this gives you 9 out of every 10 QSO's to work on thatinstead of yelling into the microphone.73,DanSubscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chatTo post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.orgThis is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Peter, you make a good point. Regarding 3Y0X, I think it probably goes to show that the raw skill of the operators at pileup handling is much more important than any subtle variations in technique. I certainly had a lot easier time getting through to them (3 bands) than to KH8SI (zero bands). Actually, I felt a little silly later on in the 3Y0X operation, because I duped them on 30m (as per their request when the log wasn't working) because the first contact was a bit questionable, and so in the first few days of the operation I fought through the 30m pileup twice with my little invisible doublet and 100W, only to have them begging for contacts by the end of the operation. Even when the pileup was enormous, though, I knew there would be some way to get through. The rate was good, the ops were predictable and in control. I *think* they were working by numbers on 40M SSB when I got them but I don't remember for sure. I feel like I just happened to tune to them to see how their SSB sig compared to CW and they were on 2's so I figured I'd dump my call in when the 3's came around. I almost fell off my seat when they came back, I usually don't even consider 40M SSB a useful DX band-mode given my antenna and power, but after the contact was over I listened on my TX frequency and only a handful were calling. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Actually, working by call area is NOT a bad idea. It gives the operator (DX) an opportunity to get a picture of current propagation. Use of propagation programs, and the propagation commands on your cluster are only good for a start, but theory and practice are two different things. 73, Jay/AF2C At 07:59 AM 8/3/2006 -0700, you wrote: --- Dan Zimmerman N3OX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Calling one 1 and then one 2 and one 3 and so forth has the advantage > of NOT taking into account propagation (you're not trying to get only > 1's, 2's, 3's before the band closes) > > What it does do if done correctly is slashes the pileup size on > average by a factor of TEN and makes the other 9 numbers very patient > because they know that in a few QSO's they get their chance. That is, if you've been listening a while. If just happen on the frequency, and you hear him work a 1 then a 2, you might think he was not listening by numbers at all, and dump your call in. That's why I think it's better to work at least a few from each call area. 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
I think you're right, except that a distinct minority of callers just happen upon the frequency these days. If you're just tuning across the band and find the DX, one of three things come to mind: 1) If you're looking at spots, the DX hasn't been spotted and the pileup will be small 2) If you're not looking at spots and the DX is so loud that no one could miss it, then the DX is loud enough for you to clearly hear "KH3OX QRZed? Fives" then on the very next contact "KH3OX QRZed? Sixes" . 3) If you're not looking at spots and the DX is very weak and you find them anyway then you can at least hear them well enough to occasionally get the call, and if you're finding weak DX without the cluster, then you're probably fairly skilled in the DX game, or will at least have to spend some time listening to figure out where the pileup is and the pattern that the DX is using. The regular cluster-users (most of the pileup) will have received instructions from the cluster spots on how to work the pile by the time they get there. By the time you've ruled out the cluster users and the people who just happen upon the DX and don't figure the pattern out in one of the three above scenarios, the number of callers just dumping their calls in blindly is very, very small. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Peter, I'm never more frustrated than when I'm losing propagation and the DX takes 15 4's then 15 5's then 15 6's then 15 7's then ***permanent fade*** ... I would have had 4 other shots to work them if they were only taking 1 per district. Guess it's a matter of personal preference. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
--- Dan Zimmerman N3OX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Calling one 1 and then one 2 and one 3 and so forth has the advantage > of NOT taking into account propagation (you're not trying to get only > 1's, 2's, 3's before the band closes) > > What it does do if done correctly is slashes the pileup size on > average by a factor of TEN and makes the other 9 numbers very patient > because they know that in a few QSO's they get their chance. That is, if you've been listening a while. If just happen on the frequency, and you hear him work a 1 then a 2, you might think he was not listening by numbers at all, and dump your call in. That's why I think it's better to work at least a few from each call area. 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
The US call districts are still mostly populated by the right numbers, though this is a good point, especially when taken worldwide. Calling one 1 and then one 2 and one 3 and so forth has the advantage of NOT taking into account propagation (you're not trying to get only 1's, 2's, 3's before the band closes) What it does do if done correctly is slashes the pileup size on average by a factor of TEN and makes the other 9 numbers very patient because they know that in a few QSO's they get their chance. They can, as Charlie said, go get some coffee, or they can spend the next nine QSO's listening and coming up with a calling strategy. It takes the pressure off. It's less stressful than taking ten or twenty from each district as propagation fades out. Having worked DXpeditions that are using this method, I think it's a great way to thin a pileup. Since a lot of successful pileup breaking is listening and thinking, this gives you 9 out of every 10 QSO's to work on that instead of yelling into the microphone. 73, Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Charlie, Good work. Going by the numbers (1-0) don't take into consideration propagation. Numbers are no longer connected to geographical location. You know W1,2 and 3 have different propagations as W4s. Where do I belong? My call is W1 but located in W4 land. Yes I can try KE1F/4 when 4s are called. ( that is another story, I had been yelled at doing that many years ago) 73s Lou KE1F in Florida Charles Harpole wrote: The answer to this question is MAKE BETTER DXPEDITION OPERATORS. The main reason ordinarily placid people become "caller mad men" is simple FRUSTRATION ! How to reduce frustration? 1. The DX op must be a general, establish a calling pattern and never never vary. 2. The DX op should call by numbers in this way call one one and then one two and then one three, and so on. This method has many benefits the largest of which is it reduces the FRUSTRATION level of the callers 90% of the bad callers are just regular people who have been driven temporarily crazy by a bad DX operator's methods. The other 10% are just crazy, probably at birth. Results of "call by numbers" are: -Makes absolutely clear when one should call no ambiguity which leads to FRUSTRATION. -Allows callers to break away from the rig for a few minutes to get coffee or something without losing any calling time. A break reduces FRUSTRATION. -This method eliminates the gripes that "he is favoring JA or he is only working the East Coast when my area is really in the best propagation now." All "ones" are equal this way yielding lowered FRUSTRATION. -The DX op can slightly vary from this pattern if there are vastly more of one number than all others. 3. DX op must establish a reasonable split (10 kc?) and must MOVE FREQ AFTER EVERY QSO and move in the same direction. This is a pain for the DX op, but it REDUCES FRUSTRATION because callers can select a freq and STAY THERE instead of doing the guessing game and moving around a lot. This eliminates tail-enders --which, when taken, increases other callers' FRUSTRATION. It also eliminates the extra deep pile on the freq. where a good QSO was just completed. (The time lost in moving freq. is made up by a more orderly pile up.) 4. The DX op should give QSL info and state his op method every half hour. Anyone can wait a half hour and knowing the info is on sked reduces FRUSTRATION. 5. The DX op must NEVER call a partial and then go back to someone else with none of the first letters nor numbers Bad Example is "QRZ the W3" and then "G7XXX ur 59" . The op must stick with his "partial" forever if it takes that, otherwise there is no reason to stand by if the DX is just going to take anyone regardless of his "directed QRZ." 6 and a pet complaint do not claim u r at a DX location "to do propagation experiments" and then send only 5-9 sig reports. Oh, well. Hams who live near frequent offenders must take it on themselves to take the bad guy to lunch (ideally in a group) and gently get to the point of his bad ops. Suggest alternatives, be helpful, but pass the message that we hear u and do not like it IN PERSON. 73, Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
You forgot to mention that the DX shoudl ID frequently so there is never any doubt who he is !! I am not so sure about the " numbers". Area can be more effective. F ex we high up in the North always are at a handicap and may have considerable shorter openings than down in Central and Southern Europe. For that reason, I would love it, if a rare one said : now Scandinavia ( i.e. realy JW, LA,SM ) , and evens suggested QSX a certain bandsegment. 73 " RAG " Ragnar Otterstad LA5HE JW5HE OZ8RO Located in Telemark - Home of skiing. For more information about Telemark take a look at : www.telemarksnett.no/en/index.html -Original Message- From: Charles Harpole [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3. august 2006 10:54 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The answer to this question is MAKE BETTER DXPEDITION OPERATORS. The main reason ordinarily placid people become "caller mad men" is simple FRUSTRATION ! How to reduce frustration? 1. The DX op must be a general, establish a calling pattern and never never vary. 2. The DX op should call by numbers in this way call one one and then one two and then one three, and so on. This method has many benefits the largest of which is it reduces the FRUSTRATION level of the callers 90% of the bad callers are just regular people who have been driven temporarily crazy by a bad DX operator's methods. The other 10% are just crazy, probably at birth. Results of "call by numbers" are: -Makes absolutely clear when one should call no ambiguity which leads to FRUSTRATION. -Allows callers to break away from the rig for a few minutes to get coffee or something without losing any calling time. A break reduces FRUSTRATION. -This method eliminates the gripes that "he is favoring JA or he is only working the East Coast when my area is really in the best propagation now." All "ones" are equal this way yielding lowered FRUSTRATION. -The DX op can slightly vary from this pattern if there are vastly more of one number than all others. 3. DX op must establish a reasonable split (10 kc?) and must MOVE FREQ AFTER EVERY QSO and move in the same direction. This is a pain for the DX op, but it REDUCES FRUSTRATION because callers can select a freq and STAY THERE instead of doing the guessing game and moving around a lot. This eliminates tail-enders --which, when taken, increases other callers' FRUSTRATION. It also eliminates the extra deep pile on the freq. where a good QSO was just completed. (The time lost in moving freq. is made up by a more orderly pile up.) 4. The DX op should give QSL info and state his op method every half hour. Anyone can wait a half hour and knowing the info is on sked reduces FRUSTRATION. 5. The DX op must NEVER call a partial and then go back to someone else with none of the first letters nor numbers Bad Example is "QRZ the W3" and then "G7XXX ur 59" . The op must stick with his "partial" forever if it takes that, otherwise there is no reason to stand by if the DX is just going to take anyone regardless of his "directed QRZ." 6 and a pet complaint do not claim u r at a DX location "to do propagation experiments" and then send only 5-9 sig reports. Oh, well. Hams who live near frequent offenders must take it on themselves to take the bad guy to lunch (ideally in a group) and gently get to the point of his bad ops. Suggest alternatives, be helpful, but pass the message that we hear u and do not like it IN PERSON. 73, Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
The answer to this question is MAKE BETTER DXPEDITION OPERATORS. The main reason ordinarily placid people become "caller mad men" is simple FRUSTRATION ! How to reduce frustration? 1. The DX op must be a general, establish a calling pattern and never never vary. 2. The DX op should call by numbers in this way call one one and then one two and then one three, and so on. This method has many benefits the largest of which is it reduces the FRUSTRATION level of the callers 90% of the bad callers are just regular people who have been driven temporarily crazy by a bad DX operator's methods. The other 10% are just crazy, probably at birth. Results of "call by numbers" are: -Makes absolutely clear when one should call no ambiguity which leads to FRUSTRATION. -Allows callers to break away from the rig for a few minutes to get coffee or something without losing any calling time. A break reduces FRUSTRATION. -This method eliminates the gripes that "he is favoring JA or he is only working the East Coast when my area is really in the best propagation now." All "ones" are equal this way yielding lowered FRUSTRATION. -The DX op can slightly vary from this pattern if there are vastly more of one number than all others. 3. DX op must establish a reasonable split (10 kc?) and must MOVE FREQ AFTER EVERY QSO and move in the same direction. This is a pain for the DX op, but it REDUCES FRUSTRATION because callers can select a freq and STAY THERE instead of doing the guessing game and moving around a lot. This eliminates tail-enders --which, when taken, increases other callers' FRUSTRATION. It also eliminates the extra deep pile on the freq. where a good QSO was just completed. (The time lost in moving freq. is made up by a more orderly pile up.) 4. The DX op should give QSL info and state his op method every half hour. Anyone can wait a half hour and knowing the info is on sked reduces FRUSTRATION. 5. The DX op must NEVER call a partial and then go back to someone else with none of the first letters nor numbers Bad Example is "QRZ the W3" and then "G7XXX ur 59" . The op must stick with his "partial" forever if it takes that, otherwise there is no reason to stand by if the DX is just going to take anyone regardless of his "directed QRZ." 6 and a pet complaint do not claim u r at a DX location "to do propagation experiments" and then send only 5-9 sig reports. Oh, well. Hams who live near frequent offenders must take it on themselves to take the bad guy to lunch (ideally in a group) and gently get to the point of his bad ops. Suggest alternatives, be helpful, but pass the message that we hear u and do not like it IN PERSON. 73, Charles Harpole, HS0ZCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
And I thought this to be a European ( Southern ! ) problem ! The entry level for ham radio must be too low these days. 73 " RAG " Ragnar Otterstad LA5HE JW5HE OZ8RO Located in Telemark - Home of skiing. For more information about Telemark take a look at : www.telemarksnett.no/en/index.html I heartily second all the observations and sentiments. I worked the KH8 on two bands. That was never an issue for me luckily. But what amazes me was that there were people not only calling and calling with nothing resembling the call fragment from the DX station but they were all over the band. Not even close to where the DX station would even be listening. I would love to here the mindset or philosophy of these folks as to how they think the DX will come back to them, when their call bears no resemblance to what the DX asked for nor are they even calling where the guy is even listening. I worked him because I spent 99% of the time LISTENING and for a long time by the way. gd luck and gd DX 73 DE Todd WB2ZAB On Jul 30, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Jim Reisert AD1C wrote: > It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups > this weekend (mostly SSB). > > When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in > Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to > call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the > pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It > makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked > because so many others are still calling. > > The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn > callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX > station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. > > It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 > meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call > (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE > possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. > > OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR > THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! > > 73 - Jim AD1C > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Excellent SSB OP this morning on 3798/3804) --- he heard AC7 and kept beating back the pileup until he heard AC7Z, then AC7ZG, then kept beating back the pileup until he completed the QSO. Many Many times "Standby Standby Standby...AC7 ONLY AC7 ONLY". After this, lots of JA's and 6's calling over the 7's (he was calling 7's only) (and the op on CW 30m last night was superb -- he had a high runrate, and was worked quickly. Wish he would move to 20m tonight to give that pileup a chance). 73 Don AC7ZG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Reisert AD1C Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:57 PM To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? A few made a good point, it is up to the DX station to control the pileup. I didn't want to go down that path. But a couple of points to keep in mind: - We (the callers) are the many, they (the DXpedition operators) are the few. They are the ones who have invested the time and money in getting there and operating. We should be responsible enough to behave ourselves. Ease the burden on the few. - Frustration is caused by the belief that you will not work the DX station. Frustration breeds desperation. Imagine how much less frustration there would be if the out-of-turn callers just kept quiet and let the DX operator work someone "in the clear". The rate will go up, as will the hope of everyone else in the pileup. Just because WX9QRO calls overtop of everyone, and in frustration and/or desperation, the DX operator works him to "get him out of the way" does NOT make it right, and does NOT mean that we have to follow that example. 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Joe, Didn't mean to single out your prefix! I did a qrz.com search on KQ3XX just in case ;-) My favorite (and this happened a bit on 6m today when it was open to the Carribean) is this, and I'll be the lid this time... that's safe. DX: 6 Yankee One Victor QRZed? DX: Kilo Quebec Three Foxt***NOVEMBER THREE OCEAN X-RAY*** and 9 in FK18. KQ3F (who can luckily hear over me) thanks you're five and 9" DX: Thanks this is Six Yan***NOVEMBER THREE OCEAN X-RAY*** QRZed? Gotta love it. I'm working on "worked all currently transmitting stations" by the way. The situation in the big unruly pileups seems exactly analogous to capital area traffic, by the way. There are times around here, if everyone just let one single person in from the merge lane and just left a little, tiny bit of space for traffic to move around, the Beltway would move at 60MPH. Since everyone's being skittish and selfish and watching out only for themselves, traffic moves at 23MPH. The selfishness, of course, is totally misplaced. The best thing for the DC metro drivers and the callers trying to break the pileup to do to get through is calm down and be orderly. Things will happen much more smoothly, you'll get your to the end of the commute faster or get your contact sooner. Oh well, don't think KH8/S is going to happen for me this time, but I did work 2 new 6m band-countries today so I've had a good one. 73, Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
BINGO, cast my vote in stone or charcoal ... I am for that. Rod WC7N - Original Message - From: "Peter Dougherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? At 05:56 PM 07/30/2006, Jim Reisert AD1C wrote: Just because WX9QRO calls overtop of everyone, and in frustration and/or desperation, the DX operator works him to "get him out of the way" does NOT make it right, and does NOT mean that we have to follow that example. To that end it would be nice if the big-name operations (and operators) all got together and decided that Alpha-Hotels like WX9QRO in your example will get a proverbial Lump Of Coal in their QSL return envelope (and the donation kept). Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
At 05:56 PM 07/30/2006, Jim Reisert AD1C wrote: Just because WX9QRO calls overtop of everyone, and in frustration and/or desperation, the DX operator works him to "get him out of the way" does NOT make it right, and does NOT mean that we have to follow that example. To that end it would be nice if the big-name operations (and operators) all got together and decided that Alpha-Hotels like WX9QRO in your example will get a proverbial Lump Of Coal in their QSL return envelope (and the donation kept). Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
At 12:26 PM 7/30/2006 -0400, Dan Zimmerman N3OX wrote: I'm OK with short-term blacklisting though. A quick "KQ3XX come back tomorrow, no contact today" is likely fairly effective. As a "KQ3" type, I'm going to assume (with good humor) that wasn't directed toward me. HI!! But it's not all (or even partially) the DX station's fault. I listened on various frequencies throughout the 20m listening range and was somewhat appalled by what I heard. There was a 5-land station (not picking on 5s, it's just I could hear them well) who called no matter who KH8SI came back to. I can understand that sometimes we can overlap with the DX, but this seemed to go beyond that. "The NE7 station" "WA5 blah-blah"..."N9QL 59" "WA5 blah-blah""Who's the 4PA?" "WA5 blah-blah". And on and on and on. When my turn came up it went like this (1) "The Foxtrot"(2) "The station ending Foxtrot"...(3) "The station with Foxtrot"...(4) "The Kilo Quebec"(5) "The Kilo Quebec with Foxtrot"...finally (6) "OK, I have it now, Kilo Quebec Three Foxtrot 59". Now if he heard the Foxtrot, then he should have been able to hear the rest of it on the second or maybe third try. Why did it take SIX takes until he got it? Obviously, others were transmitting. 73, Joe KQ3F Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
A few made a good point, it is up to the DX station to control the pileup. I didn't want to go down that path. But a couple of points to keep in mind: - We (the callers) are the many, they (the DXpedition operators) are the few. They are the ones who have invested the time and money in getting there and operating. We should be responsible enough to behave ourselves. Ease the burden on the few. - Frustration is caused by the belief that you will not work the DX station. Frustration breeds desperation. Imagine how much less frustration there would be if the out-of-turn callers just kept quiet and let the DX operator work someone "in the clear". The rate will go up, as will the hope of everyone else in the pileup. Just because WX9QRO calls overtop of everyone, and in frustration and/or desperation, the DX operator works him to "get him out of the way" does NOT make it right, and does NOT mean that we have to follow that example. 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
So sad that we see this thread come up with every major top-ten DXpedition. I *am* in favour of blacklisting but only for a day. "WZ4ZZZ you've been calling out of turn for 20 minutes now, tail-ending and covering up the guys I'm trying to work. You're not going in the log today. Try back tomorrow when I'm calling for 4's; OK" that kind of thing. To unabashedly paraphrase Martti Laine's analogy, DXing is a performance of sorts, and both the players on the stage (the DX) and the audience (us) have a role to play if the performance is to be a success. I'm sure the DXers who spend thousands or tens of thousands or in some cases hundreds-of-thousands to give The Deserving (!!!) a new one don't go into their trips with the objective to only work a few thousand and that's it -- I'd bet they want the highest Q rates and give out the most "new ones" as they can. It behooves them to take along a lot of serious experienced operators, and for the newbies out there with them, put them on the least-demanding shifts at first until they prove their mettle - noth thrust them onto 40 CW or 20 SSB on a Friday night. Small operations to ultra-rare locations (i.e. not holiday "let's-have-some-fun-on-the-air" operations) are doing themselves no favours by taking along large numbers of inexperienced operators for the reasons stated earlier in this thread. In other words, the question posed by the subject line of this thread of "How do we make better DXers" is answered by "By the organizers of major DXpeditions putting the best operators they can find behind the mic or key or keyboard when it counts, setting rules and keeping to those rules no matter how surly the pile becomes." The carrot is the QSL card, but the stick should be a NIL, and I'm afraid far too few operators are willing to use the stick once in a while. A little public shaming of the WORST offenders, at JUST the right point can sometimes be the tonic needed, I feel. Also, I suspect those who subscribe to and participate in these forums are not the problem-children anyway. It's the rogues who don't give a hoot what anybody else thinks who ruins it for everybody. The operators who see "me me me me me me" above everything else; the guys who WILL work DXpeditions 10 times on one band-mode just "cuz they can," etc. These varlets just don't listen to anybody so all the words written here, sadly, will probably have no effect. - Original Message - To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The DX just has to be strict about who gets to get through. The pileup should be held up until WK7 gets to get through, or the DX says "the whiskey kilo seven please" and is met with silence. Yeah, QSO rate may plummet, but that's just what has to happen to keep the pileup in line. Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
If the DX announces he's listening in a range of frequencies, I think in many instances those who can't find the frequency the DX is listening on "right now" simply announce their callsign over and over, listening briefly in between to see if the DX has heard it. After all, the DX is supposedly tuning around in the announced range, so if one cannot "tail-end" by finding the station being worked, maybe one can "get lucky". The result is what we all hear... bedlam. It's still a pile-up; it's just spread out more. I'm not sufficiently expert to presume to know how to fix this, but it seems to me that announcing a specific frequency is often better than a range. Sure everyone will call together, but often DXers will figure out that if they move off center a bit they stand a better chance of being heard by the DX. The DX can then work the edges of the pileup, the upper edge then the lower edge, switching at intervals as the pileup realizes where he's listening and flows in that direction. It's really the same thing on a much narrower scale, but it seems to me announcing a single listening frequency often works better than announcing a 5 or 10 KHz range. 73, Jerry K3BZ - Original Message - From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Why do they do it? Two reasons: (1) Some don't know better. They were never shown the ropes, or they've learned by observing, and unfortunately, they've observed bad examples. (2) It works. I've been in too many pileups, over the years, where the DX has said "the Alpha Whiskey" or "the W N 3 only," several totally unrelated calls have come back, and he WORKED them instead of trying for me (or whomever) again. So the learned behavior is to call on any partial call, even unrelated, because too many DX will work the loudest signal coming back. Oh yes, there's a third reason. It has to do with the inherent nature of certain DX hogs themselves, but in order to accurately describe this type, I'd have to use language that isn't permitted on this reflector. 73, ron w3wn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jim Reisert AD1C Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:21 AM To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Upon reflection, I think one of the causes of this behavior, at least on CW, is because the DX station thinks he must go 45 WPM. Now if that station is horribly weak, one has difficulty in copying one's call. This promotes calling out of turn in my opinion. There is a rush to log as many stations as possible, I know. However why it is that when the DX is dirt water weak, they insist on working stations at max CW speed. I don't get it and I don't think a lot of others do either. 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
I totally agree with what Dan says BUT it just doesn't work that way. I have made plenty of DXpeditions, none to a place I had to stay in a tent in 100+degree weather or wear a jacket so heavy I could barely move. When you say the CV station only, many guys still call. OK, you say again, the CV only. Now a few less call but they still are QRMing the QRG. You say again the CV only. Now a few less call. Finally you get the station, F2CV or N0CV or whoever, but it wasn't because guys quit calling. It was because a few savvy DXers understood you were coming back to one station only and finally stood by. I personally will never leave a call if I get a partial. Rate be damned! I have seen this behavior time after time. I don't think there is anything one can do to get this across to the masses. As the DX, I just keep at it and never vary. If your call is CV, you are going to get in the log! Now, that being said, when working a JA pileup, it can be a thing of beauty but sometimes this even bites you. You come back to a weak weak ABJ and give a report and you hear ABJ come back, weak as water but hearable because the other JA's stood by. However, to get ABJ to send his call twice or three times is like pulling dragon's teeth. The JA stations are so polite that JA9ABJ doesn't want to run the risk of QRMing JA1ABJ. None of this will stop me from going out again. Look for me from VK9C in October/November this year. That's how it goes! 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> - Original Message - From: "Dan Zimmerman N3OX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? The DX just has to be strict about who gets to get through. The pileup should be held up until WK7 gets to get through, or the DX says "the whiskey kilo seven please" and is met with silence. Yeah, QSO rate may plummet, but that's just what has to happen to keep the pileup in line. I'm in favor of the DX giving specific instructions to keep the pileup in line. I've worked some hard ones on 30m because the DX sent "UP 17" instead of just "UP" and three-quarters of the pile didn't follow. The more the DX can reward the good, skilled, and polite DXer with the contact at the expense of the brute-force jerks, the better the pileups will get. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
I am not for blacklisting but it perhaps has its place. That being said, I would love to discover what really works as nothing I have tried so far seems to diminish that activity of calling incessantly regardless of who the DX is coming back to. I have heard of folks who work a station, then just not log it but I don't want to go there. I find no matter how frustrated I get at the moment, I work another ten or fifteen stations and the specifics are forgotten even though the general memory lingers. I prefer it that way. Over the course of two or three DXpeditions, one comes to grips with this and lives with it. After all, if the station came back to N0YG and I didn't hear, because of whatever reason, the N0, especially with my call being W0, I hope I won't be blacklisted or not logged. That's my two cents worth. Again, I just live with it and do my thing my way, never leave a partial call. 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
I think long-term blacklisting is too harsh. I don't think that the people who are calling out of turn are necessarily doing it because they're bad people. I think it's because they know it increases, rather than decreases their chance of getting through. I'm OK with short-term blacklisting though. A quick "KQ3XX come back tomorrow, no contact today" is likely fairly effective. It should just be for a single band-mode-day though. It'd give the bad apples many chances to modify their behavior. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Perhaps a little extreme, but I believe the only solution is for the DX peds to start blacklisting the offenders. Post them on the 'net and when they send for their card, send a little note saying "sorry." 73, Barry Charlie, W0YG wrote: Maybe they started there with the advent of clusters but it has been going on for ages over here. Some just seem to want to call all the time regardless. 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> - Original Message - From: "Osten B Magnusson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? Jim! >>from all over the country Not exactly... "from all over the world" would be more correct. This problem started (or should I say got worse) when the DX-clusters started to show up on Internet. 73/DX de Osten SM5DQC - Original Message - From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org -- Barry Kutner, W2UP Newtown, PA Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
The DX just has to be strict about who gets to get through. The pileup should be held up until WK7 gets to get through, or the DX says "the whiskey kilo seven please" and is met with silence. Yeah, QSO rate may plummet, but that's just what has to happen to keep the pileup in line. I'm in favor of the DX giving specific instructions to keep the pileup in line. I've worked some hard ones on 30m because the DX sent "UP 17" instead of just "UP" and three-quarters of the pile didn't follow. The more the DX can reward the good, skilled, and polite DXer with the contact at the expense of the brute-force jerks, the better the pileups will get. Dan Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Well I agree, but! The operator on the DX end is the pack leader. If he permits the bad behavior, then it multiplies. If you're running a pile, and ask for 1s don't take others. If you ask for AD1C, don't take others. If tht doesn't have the desired effect, then pick an out of turner and "blacklist" him for expedition QSLs. Sooner or later, we'll follow the intructions. Some times we're such bad dogs we need our nose rubbed in it. Of course that's just my opinion from only half a dozen minor expeditions. But there ae alot of major expedition ops that do control their piles most w/o such drastic measures. 73 Ed KE3D- Original Message - From: Jim Reisert AD1C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:26 pm Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? To: dx-chat@njdxa.org > It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups > this weekend (mostly SSB). > > When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in > Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to > call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the > pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It > makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked > because so many others are still calling. > > The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn > callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX > station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. > > It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 > meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call > (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE > possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. > > OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR > THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! > > 73 - Jim AD1C > > -- > Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 > USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems > http://njdxa.org/dx-chat > > To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org > > This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA > http://njdxa.org >
RE: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
May be it is time to open BLACK LIST,anounce it and put it to Internet. Then recommend to DX expedition to use it ? But need to think about how to fill out the list. I'm sure that only memebers of DX pedition could fill the black list and one call sign go to black list if it appear in more than 2 DX pedition. 73! Larry RW4WZ > > The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn > callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX > station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. > > It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 > meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call > (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE > possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. > > OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR > THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! > > 73 - Jim AD1C Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
I will tell you why Jim.. This morning on 30 meters the op would get a partial call, say WK7 and would sent that back and then come back to a completely different call, like JA1ABC or something like that. People now know that so they just keep calling on top of the other station. It appears to work for a lot of them. Also yesterday on 20 SSB the KH8 said ok I am standing by for Africa on 14215 Africa only, and then he went back to a stateside station... Just not good DX procedure. Rod WC7N - Original Message - From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:21 AM Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Jim: I and the other ops in C9 earlier this month and part of June had the same problem, its nothing particular to KH8SI. If I was calling for say USA or by the numbers only, ops in one country especially would keep coming back, no matter what I said. If I asked the offending station if they were a say 6 and they were a 1 or if they were in the USA and they were in Europe, they just gave me the signal report like they never heard me calling by the numbers or anything else. Often I had to work them because they were so strong they would blot out my entire listening range of 5-10 khz. up and they wouldn't give up no matter what I said. One of our ops, NE5EE/C91EE Dave, had a novel reply back to them. First he said he was blacklisting their call in his log, then if they persisted he said he was blacklisting their entire COUNTRY and would tell everyone who was the offending operator. He actually did it a few times, but I'm not sure how effective it was hi hi. 73 de Tom, WW5L/C91TL PS: All C91TL cards received direct so far have been answered.. Jim Reisert AD1C wrote: It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Maybe they started there with the advent of clusters but it has been going on for ages over here. Some just seem to want to call all the time regardless. 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> - Original Message - From: "Osten B Magnusson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? Jim! >>from all over the country Not exactly... "from all over the world" would be more correct. This problem started (or should I say got worse) when the DX-clusters started to show up on Internet. 73/DX de Osten SM5DQC - Original Message - From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers?
Jim! >>from all over the country Not exactly... "from all over the world" would be more correct. This problem started (or should I say got worse) when the DX-clusters started to show up on Internet. 73/DX de Osten SM5DQC - Original Message - From: "Jim Reisert AD1C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: [DX-CHAT] How do we make better DXers? It was frustrating and sad to listen to the KH8SI and 4O3T pileups this weekend (mostly SSB). When the DX station says, "The station with 7 in the call, ending in Germany" why do unrelated calls from all over the country continue to call? When the DX station comes back to a full callsign, why does the pileup size diminish only by half, rather than "all but one"? It makes it impossible for a better DXer to find the station being worked because so many others are still calling. The rate of these DX stations is being hindered by out-of-turn callers. When the rate is hindered, fewer people can work the DX station. Especially limited-time operations like KH8SI. It made me sad to be a DXer this weekend. My QSO with KH8SI on 17 meters took THREE go-arounds because they could not get my call (presumably because of all the people still calling). That's TWO MORE possible QSOs that were wasted by the out-of-turn callers. OUT-OF-TURN CALLERS ARE SETTING A BAD EXAMPLE, RUINING IT FOR THEMSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE! 73 - Jim AD1C -- Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863 USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
