[e-gold-list] The Security Patch Treadmill
From Bruce Schneier's CRYPTO-GRAM: ** *** * *** *** * The Security Patch Treadmill "Well, in our country," said Alice, panting a little, "you'd generally get somewhere else -- if you ran very fast for a long time, as we've been doing." "A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place." --Through the Looking Glass, by Lewis Carroll. Last week, the FBI announced that over the past year, several groups of Eastern European hackers had broken into at least 40 companies' websites, stolen credit card numbers, and in some cases tried to extort money from theeir victims. The network vulnerabilities exploited by these criminals were known, and patches that closed them were available -- but none of the companies had installed them. In January 2001, the Ramen worm targeted known vulnerabilities in several versions of Red Hat Linux. None of the thousands of infected systems had their patches up to date. In October 2000, Microsoft was molested by unknown hackers who wandered unchallenged through their network, accessing intellectual property, for weeks or months. According to reports, the attackers would not have been able to break in if Microsoft patches had been up to date. The series of high-profile credit card thefts in January 2000, including the CD Universe incident, were also the result of uninstalled patches. A patch issued eighteen months previously would have protected these companies. What's going on here? Isn't anyone installing security patches anymore? Doesn't anyone care? What's going on is that there are just too damn many patches. It's simply impossible to keep up. I get weekly summaries of new vulnerabilities and patches. One alert service listed 19 new patches in a variety of products in the first week of March 2001. That was an average week. Some of the listings affected my network, and many of them did not. Microsoft Outlook had over a dozen security patches in the year 2000. I don't know how the average user can possibly install them all; he'd never get anything else done. Security professionals are quick to blame system administrators who don't install every patch. "They should have updated their systems; it's their own fault when they get hacked." This is beginning to feel a lot like blaming the victim. "He should have known not to walk down that deserted street; it's his own fault he was mugged." "She should never have dressed that provocatively; it's her own fault she was attacked." Perhaps such precautions should have been taken, but the real blame lies elsewhere. Those who manage computer networks are people too, and people don't always do the smartest thing. They know they're supposed to install all patches. But sometimes they can't take critical systems off-line. Sometimes they don't have the staffing available to patch every system on their network. Sometimes applying a patch breaks something else on their network. I think it's time the industry realized that expecting the patch process to improve network security just doesn't work. Security based on patches is inherently fragile. Any large network is going to have hundreds of vulnerabilities. If there's a vulnerability in your system, you can be attacked successfully and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if you manage to install every patch you know about, what about the vulnerabilities that haven't been patched yet? (That same alert service listed 10 new vulnerabilities for which there is no defense.) Or the vulnerabilities discovered but not reported yet? Or the ones still undiscovered? Good security is resilient. It's resilient to user errors. It's resilient to network changes. And it's resilient to administrators not installing every patch. For the past two years I have been championing monitoring as a way to provide this resilient security. If there are enough motion sensors, electric eyes, and pressure plates in your house, you'll catch the burglar regardless of how he got in. If you are monitoring your network carefully enough, you'll catch a hacker regardless of what vulnerability he exploited to gain access. Monitoring makes a network less dependent on keeping patches up to date; it's a process that provides security even in the face of ever-present vulnerabilities, uninstalled patches, and imperfect products. In a perfect world, systems would rarely need security patches. The few patches they did need would automatically download, be easy to install, and always work. But we don't live in a perfect world. Network administrators are busy people, and networks are constantly changing. Vigilant monitoring does not "solve" computer security, but it is a much more realistic way of providing resilient security. The Ramen worm:
[e-gold-list] Insurance and the Future of Network Security
In the long run, the OS you choose for your business should make a difference in it's operating costs and in how some of your customers view the technical reliability of your business. Bob From Bruce Schneier's CRYPTO-GRAM: ** *** * *** *** * Insurance and the Future of Network Security Eventually, the insurance industry will subsume the computer security industry. Not that insurance companies will start marketing security products, but rather that the kind of firewall you use -- along with the kind of authentication scheme you use, the kind of operating system you use, and the kind of network monitoring scheme you use -- will be strongly influenced by the constraints of insurance. Consider security, and safety, in the real world. Businesses don't install building alarms because it makes them feel safer; they do it because they get a reduction in their insurance rates. Building-owners don't install sprinkler systems out of affection for their tenants, but because building codes and insurance policies demand it. Deciding what kind of theft and fire prevention equipment to install are risk management decisions, and the risk taker of last resort is the insurance industry. This is sometimes hard for computer techies to understand, because the security industry has trained them to expect technology to solve their problems. Remember when all you needed was a firewall, and then you were safe? Remember when it was an intrusion detection product? Or a PKI? I think the current wisdom is that all you need is biometrics, or maybe smart cards. The real world doesn't work this way. Businesses achieve security through insurance. They take the risks they are not willing to accept themselves, bundle them up, and pay someone else to make them go away. If a warehouse is insured properly, the owner really doesn't care if it burns down or not. If he does care, he's underinsured. Similarly, if a network is insured properly, the owner won't care whether it is hacked or not. This is worth repeating: a properly insured network is immune to the effects of hacking. Concerned about denial-of-service attacks? Get bandwidth interruption insurance. Concerned about data corruption? Get data integrity insurance. (I'm making these policy names up, here.) Concerned about negative publicity due to a widely publicized network attack? Get a rider on your good name insurance that covers that sort of event. The insurance industry isn't offering all of these policies yet, but it is coming. When I talk about this future at conferences, a common objection I hear is that premium calculation is impossible. Again, this is a technical mentality talking. Sure, insurance companies like well-understood risk profiles and carefully calculated premiums. But they also insure satellite launches and the palate of wine critic Robert Parker. If an insurance company can protect Tylenol against some lunatic putting a poisoned bottle on a supermarket shelf, anti-hacking insurance will be a snap. Imagine the future Every business has network security insurance, just as every business has insurance against fire, theft, and any other reasonable threat. To do otherwise would be to behave recklessly and be open to lawsuits. Details of network security become check boxes when it comes time to calculate the premium. Do you have a firewall? Which brand? Your rate may be one price if you have this brand, and a different price if you have another brand. Do you have a service monitoring your network? If you do, your rate goes down this much. This process changes everything. What will happen when the CFO looks at his premium and realizes that it will go down 50% if he gets rid of all his insecure Windows operating systems and replaces them with a secure version of Linux? The choice of which operating system to use will no longer be 100% technical. Microsoft, and other companies with shoddy security, will start losing sales because companies don't want to pay the insurance premiums. In this vision of the future, how secure a product is becomes a real, measurable, feature that companies are willing to pay for...because it saves them money in the long run. Other systems will be affected, too. Online merchants and brick-and-mortar merchants will have different insurance premiums, because the risks are different. Businesses can add authentication mechanisms -- public-key certificates, biometrics, smart cards -- and either save or lose money depending on their effectiveness. Computer security "snake-oil" peddlers who make outlandish claims and sell ridiculous products will find no buyers as long as the insurance industry doesn't recognize their value. In fact, the whole point of buying a security product or hiring a security service will not be based on threat avoidance; it will be based on risk management. And it will be about
[e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds?
No I am afraid they would not send a squad car. When I say "Tax Protester" I am not referring to people who walk around federal court houses with signs. At least those are not the people the IRS is targetting. I am talking about people who participate in schemes that the IRS identifies as criminal conspiracies to defraud the US govt of tax dollars. When they hit they hit hard because they don't want to give you time to destroy the evidence: wipe a hard drive, destroy backup etc. Examples of such criminar conspiracies that the IRS views with disdain are the "America Pure Trusts" folks. There are several of them sitting in jail right now and the IRS is looking for more. Any tax reduction/avoidance plan that involves kooky legal theories about the illegality of the tax code, and is based inside the US is unlikely to get you anything else than a one way ticket to the big house. If he was just raided for being a "Tax Protester" I think a simple squad car would have been sent to pick him up, possibly an IRS Agent or pair of FBI G-men. I do not claim to be an expert on Law Enforcement raiding strategy, but it appears to me that if "heaps of men" DID in fact participate in this raid they were looking for something specific. I have lived in this country all my life and find our justice system to be a bit whacked at times, but all in all, it has managed to turn this country into one of the world's most desirable places to live. NO DOUBT MANY FEEL THAT WAY. UNFORTUNATELY MANY FEEL THAT THEY CAN DISREGARD THE LAW AND NOT GO TO JAIL. VERY UNFORTUNATE SINCE THE TAX LAWS ARE SO EASY TO AVOID WITHOUT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Glencannon Group Ltd. http://www.glencannongroup.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for a more secure email) fax: 419-710-4339 _*_*_*_*_ If you found the contents of this email useful to you, and you have an e-gold account, please feel free to follow this link: http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107685[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds?
I am indeed making an assumption, and you know what that means. But... This does not sound like a credit card fraud operation unless they suspected he was involved in stealing peoples cards, etc. It sounds to me like IRS-Treasury tactics that's all. On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:03:11 -0600, GoldDirectory.com wrote: Sounds to me that they are treating him like a "Tax Protester." Although I wish him and his family the best, it should be taken as a lesson on how not to handle tax issues. I don't know if he was a Tax Protester or even linked with them in any way, but if the IRS thinks you are, you will have problems. Arguing about arcane issues of the law with men with guns is not a good situation to be in if you care about your family's lives and your property. Why do you assume this? If the rumor is true, then the issue is most likely credit card fraud. From Parker's own words, he processed over $200,000 in fraudulent credit card charges. If this is true, then I would think that 'someone' would want to investigate this. Of course, I am confident that Parker is innocent of any wrong-doing, but that's an awful lot of fraud. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Glencannon Group Ltd. http://www.glencannongroup.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for a more secure email) fax: 419-710-4339 _*_*_*_*_ If you found the contents of this email useful to you, and you have an e-gold account, please feel free to follow this link: http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107685[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Value of Aussie Dollar
"Eric J. Gaither" wrote: Gary, Well, perhaps I should have you (and your wife?) for dinner. Emeril has taught me well! :0) E flippant sarcasm I had no idea Emeril cooks people for dinner, must be pretty filling, please let us know when that show is on :- /sarcaism FYI no press on Bradleys yet. Mark S. Ohberg If my 2 cents was worth it, than make it real Cyber-metallic, Global gold currency: http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107245 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Value of Aussie Dollar
Mark, Well...open my mouth and insert my foot! You are right about that...I meant to say I should have them OVER for dinner...jalapeno hushpuppies or fried green tomatoes with crabmeat for an appetizer, a nice dish of caramelized salmon accompanied by cilantro potato salad, and nice baked Alaska to top the night off right. My best guess is that Emeril has no interest in following Hannibal Lecter's footsteps with his talentswhat do you say, Clarice ;0) Eric - Original Message - From: Mark S. Ohberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Value of Aussie Dollar "Eric J. Gaither" wrote: Gary, Well, perhaps I should have you (and your wife?) for dinner. Emeril has taught me well! :0) E flippant sarcasm I had no idea Emeril cooks people for dinner, must be pretty filling, please let us know when that show is on :- /sarcaism FYI no press on Bradleys yet. Mark S. Ohberg If my 2 cents was worth it, than make it real Cyber-metallic, Global gold currency: http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107245 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gary vs. eric
Forrest, Well, I am saddned by your decision to base your transactional needs on the outcome of a tasty debate. You seeI am not cheerleading for the state, I am just appreciative of the luxuries afforded by residing in this great country. Please, by all means, try one of my competitors that holds similar views to your own. You will find a complete listing of the "recognized" Market Makers located on the e-gold Directory page. I happen to know of several other "un-recognized" MM's that may be of interest to you as well. I can forward you the links to their sites if you would care to have them. That is what this Economy is all about, yes? Choices, choices, choices... Have a great weekend, Forrest! Eric - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 10:36 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] gary vs. eric gary, you should use the two cents worth link on your posts.you'd be up at least a dime right now from just me! eric, i'll not soon be using your service based on your unabashed cheerleading for the predatory and enslaving state under which we find ourselves in the modern era"for evil to triumph, a good man need only do nothing" best, . forrest --Worth 2 cents??-- http://2cw.org/103300 Find my e-gold (freedom oriented) directory linked to my home page at: http://members.tripod.com/~lowell_potter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] eric's offer
Eric, No thanksI generally buy my e-gold from other private account holders at spot. best, .. forrest --Worth 2 cents??-- http://2cw.org/103300 Find my e-gold (freedom oriented) directory linked to my home page at: http://members.tripod.com/~lowell_potter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds?
I don't understand why they kidnapped his wife/family? I don't believe that USA is a free/liberal country. The FBI and other 'Authortarian groups' make no distinction. They will act upon a rumour get a court order and send heaps of people to raid an innocent family with no regard for the consewquences when it is 'belatedly found' the person is innocent. I still say we need to find out what is happening and offer our support...not sit on our bums. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] MetalSavings update
MetalSavings users have probably noticed by now that the host which serves metalsavings, www.sidereal.kz, has been off the net for a couple of days. You're probably wondering what happened. sidereal.kz was hosted by an ISP called Alameda Networks (www.alameda.net). Alameda Networks ceased operations abruptly, leaving our host off the net. You can verify that www.sidereal.kz (209.0.55.58) is in Alameda Network's ASN block, and further you can verify that Level3 is no longer routing that block, and the www.alameda.net server is also no longer on that block. Right now we have a couple of options. First, we could pick up the server from Alameda (Oakland, CA) and install it into another hosting facility somewhere in the Bay Area. This would get us on-line perhaps on Monday. The advantage of this is that it's fast. However, that particular machine is getting old, both the software and the hardware, and also some of our customers may perceive that there is an advantage to the host being outside the United States. From this perspective, the optimal solution would be to install the software on new, faster hardware, with a current OS, and put it in a rack in a non-US facility. The disadvantage of this is that it will take longer. The new hardware is almost ready to go (we're having trouble with the Intel ether card, and will probably buy a 3com, and just be done with it), and we have selected a non-US hosting facility, and we're hoping to ship the new machine either tomorrow (Saturday) or Monday. It should arrive perhaps on Wednesday, and we would restore service at about that time. It is unfortunate that we are having an outage, and it's even more unfortunate that it needs to be prolonged, but we think that our customers would be best served by waiting a couple of extra days for us to get the right hardware and the right OS into the right hosting facility. We appologize for these difficulties. Please bear in mind that MetalSavings is still in "beta testing". We're hoping to soon be able to launch new software with a much-improved user interface and look, but this situation has set us back by about a week. The new hardware is much faster than the old, and it will provide us plenty of room to grow. It's also more stable, and uses hardware RAID, for optimal reliability. You can always check our public balance, to see that we do in fact have reasonable gold reserves, and we are not doing this because of insolvency. Please feel free to email me any questions you might have. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re:Parker Bradley Raided By The Feds
Last time I researched it, terror tactics, torture chambers and thumb
screws are still considered excess force here in the States.
Au contrare, mon ami...or, as they say here in SoCal..."Not so fast, dude!"
By any measure, the United States legal/law enforcement system is as
draconian as they come, employing "terror tactics," "torture chambers" and
"thumb screws" with regularity.
"Terror Tactics" in the form of threatssimply put, "Comply or we'll crush
you."
What makes this attitude a 'terror tactic' is it's employed against
ANYONE...guilty or innocent..with the emphasis on the "CRUSH" part. (First
they deprive you of the ability to defend yourself by seizing everything they
can get their hands on, then they offer you "Plea Bargaining" in which there
isn't much choice given the target...)
"Terror Tactics" in the form of random stops at mobile roadblocks, ostensibly
to check for "drunk drivers," but which invariably result in arrests for
everything BUT drunk driving. ("Papers" not in order? Watch out!)
"Terror Tactics" in the form of a massive body of laws (many of which are
conflicting) which make compliance almost impossible and result in the United
States jailing THE HIGHEST PER-CAPITA RATE OF IT'S CITIZENS THAN ANY OTHER
COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
"Torture Chambers"? Ever been in prison? Or worse yet, a county or
municipal jail where the inmates rape, assault and murder at will?
"Torture Chambers"? Ever sit in a room for twelve hours straight, no food,
no drink no phone calls, while a steady stream of detectives grill you
incessantly? Hardly a walk in the parkand that's what they do to
witnesses who aren't exactly "recalling" the details of the alleged crime in
exactly the way the authorities want them to..never mind what they do to the
actual suspect...
"Thumb Screws"? Much more sophisticated now...they're called handcuffs.
Ever have some REALLY "clamped on" by a cop? Within a few minutes you're
praying for some thumbscrews.they know it, and they do it on purpose.
Recently, in Los Angeles, 11,000 (yep, that's right, Eleven with three
zeroes) criminal cases were dismissed because it was proven that the
arresting officers planted evidence, gave false testimony, lied to
prosecutors (and judges alike) or engaged in other activities designed to
clearly entrap innocent victims. The problem is all this was "discovered"
(and I use the term euphemistically...community residents and defense
attorneys had been complaining about such tactics for years) well after the
fact, and many of these 11,000+ people were already in jail, many for six
years or more!
The cases of government/law enforcement abuse are well recorded. The well
known Ruby Ridge, Rodney King, Waco, "Hurricane" Carter or Abati cases (the
one where the six New York detectives shot at an unarmed man more than 46
times, hitting him 19 times and killing him), there are literally thousands
of similar incidents which occur with alarming regularity but that don't
receive the same publicity. It's reaching epidemic proportions and becoming
the "norm" rather than the "exception."
It's easy to adopt the attitude, "Well, they must have done SOMETHING to
deserve it!" It's a "logical" and "comforting" conclusion that lulls one into
the false sense that the authorities "know what they're doing" and "I'm O.K.
because I'm not doing anything wrong."
Think again...you could be next.
Regards,
Michael
---
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[e-gold-list] Re: Original Message
Well,, this is rather open ended? How do we know that the Raid had nothing to do with e-gold and instead the Raid was over being a Redemption center for NorFed?? JB From: "GoldDirectory.com" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Original Message Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:21:03 -0600 Maybe we're not on the same page here, because the message seems to have been skewed. Here is the original message, as reported by Vince Callaway and Steve Foerster. Since Bernard is a rather respectable source, (in my opinion), then the primary question I have is, is the message from Bernard, as stated? --- ALERT: FEDS RAID A FRIEND I regret to alert you that Parker Bradley, an Exchange Provider for e-gold, a Redemption Center and a friend was raided by approximately 25 Federal Gestapos on Monday, March 12, 2001. Under the deception of investigating credit card fraud, Parker and his wife were kidnapped and treated to the usual gross intimidating tactics of our increasingly tyrannical government. The raid seems to have been aimed at Parker's past acceptance of credit cards for e-gold - a practice that had cost him dearly as the credit card industry is so easy to rip off which then blames the merchant. Please forward this alert to your list and report any raid or unusual police activity with anyone associated with NORFED. We all must stay well informed and ready to investigate any pattern of the government's tyranny. Bernard von NotHaus Monetary Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] MetalSavings update
[This is my second attempt to send this; my appologies if this is going through twice. Yahoo mail isn't our normal email system.] As MetalSavings users are probably aware, the MetalSavings site, which is hosted on the www.sidereal.kz server, has been down for two days now. What happened is that our colocation ISP has abruptly ceased being in business. The first we found out about their going out of business was when our website went off the air. The ISP was Alameda Networks (www.alameda.net). You can see that sidereal.kz's address, 209.0.55.58, should be routed to Alameda Networks' ASN, which is hosted behind Level3, and you can see that Level3 is no longer routing it. The solution is for us to pick another ISP, preferably one which will be in business for the long-term. We have two options on this. The first is to pick up the machine from Oakland, CA, and install it at another colocation facility in the Bay Area (there are dozens of them). This would allow us to get back on-line this weekend. The second option is to configure a new machine, with upgraded hardware and software, and install it in a colocation facility outside the United States. Many of our customers would feel more comfortable if their data were kept outside the US. Also, the hardware and operating system of the current server are due for major upgrades or replacement. The drawback for this second option is that it will take more time. We have been planning new hardware and a new colocation facility for some time now, so we do have a new machine which is almost ready to ship (it only needs a new Ethernet card), and we have, with the help of one of the members of e-gold's highly international community, identified a suitable colocation facility outside the US. If we take the second option, we'll be able to restore service probably on Wednesday. We realize that this delay is inconvenient for our customers, but we think that additional benefits of doing this right (improved hardware, software, and jurisdiction) outweigh the drawbacks (two extra days of downtime). We hope that our customers understand that MetalSavings is still in the testing stages. When we finally have our official launch, we will have all necessary redundancy and backup, so that outages can be minimized. We'll also be using some exciting new software with some amazing new security and other features. You'll be impressed. Again, we are relying on our customers' understanding as we solve this problem. Bear with us, and be ready for an amazing new website in the next couple of weeks (unfortunately this outage has set our launch back by about a week). Please feel free to email if you have any questions. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds?
Hmm, Isn't this "Raid" also about the same time the metal savings server went off the air?? VR JB From: "Glencannon Group Ltd." [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds? Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 06:02:35 -0800 (PST) No I am afraid they would not send a squad car. When I say "Tax Protester" I am not referring to people who walk around federal court houses with signs. At least those are not the people the IRS is targetting. I am talking about people who participate in schemes that the IRS identifies as criminal conspiracies to defraud the US govt of tax dollars. When they hit they hit hard because they don't want to give you time to destroy the evidence: wipe a hard drive, destroy backup etc. Examples of such criminar conspiracies that the IRS views with disdain are the "America Pure Trusts" folks. There are several of them sitting in jail right now and the IRS is looking for more. Any tax reduction/avoidance plan that involves kooky legal theories about the illegality of the tax code, and is based inside the US is unlikely to get you anything else than a one way ticket to the big house. If he was just raided for being a "Tax Protester" I think a simple squad car would have been sent to pick him up, possibly an IRS Agent or pair of FBI G-men. I do not claim to be an expert on Law Enforcement raiding strategy, but it appears to me that if "heaps of men" DID in fact participate in this raid they were looking for something specific. I have lived in this country all my life and find our justice system to be a bit whacked at times, but all in all, it has managed to turn this country into one of the world's most desirable places to live. NO DOUBT MANY FEEL THAT WAY. UNFORTUNATELY MANY FEEL THAT THEY CAN DISREGARD THE LAW AND NOT GO TO JAIL. VERY UNFORTUNATE SINCE THE TAX LAWS ARE SO EASY TO AVOID WITHOUT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Glencannon Group Ltd. http://www.glencannongroup.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for a more secure email) fax: 419-710-4339 _*_*_*_*_ If you found the contents of this email useful to you, and you have an e-gold account, please feel free to follow this link: http://www.two-cents-worth.com/?107685[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Perl programmer - Pay by egold
--- Mariman Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am looking for a Perl programmer for a customized script. Fees will be paid by egold. Thanks, Joel -- Mariman Center www.mariman.net WebHosting - WebDesign --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gary vs. eric
Forrest, Well, I am saddned by your decision to base your transactional needs on the outcome of a tasty debate. You seeI am not cheerleading for the state, I am just appreciative of the luxuries afforded by residing in this great country. Eric, Please take no offense, as I'm merely pointing out the difference between some men. Some men would prefer luxury over principle. Some men would prefer delusional safety over freedom. And there are those men that do not trade their principles for anything in the world, because it's simply wrong. Tristan "The evil of the world is made possible only by the sanction you give it; withdraw your support; withdraw your sanction" - Ayn Rand --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: gary vs. eric
Tristan, Once again, I agree with your statements. "Delusional safety over freedom" is a rather subjective declaration, however, as both words have far more reaching implications than a simple comparative statement can appreciate. And there are those men that do not trade their principles for anything in the world, because it's simply wrong. Yes, and there are also many a man who simply live lives void of principal. My principal belief is that life is short and the Earth has pre-existing boundaries. In order for our short lives to be filled with as much meaning as possible, we must strive to better ourselves and the world in which we live. How can we do that? I like the saying of "Think Global, Act Local" Do what you can to promote mankind's well-being. (But be careful not to take your eye off your fellow man because you really just do not know who you can trust!) Now, does that make me a bad guy? I like to think not. By the way..how did this turn into Gary vs. Eric? I was under the impression Gary and I (and a few others) were simply practicing the long lost art of debate. Gary has his views. I have mine. You have yours. Are each of us individually wrong because we do not share the exact sentiments of the other? Are we not allowed to hold (and then discuss) different views of this grand world in which we live? I think Gary knows (I hope you do, Gary!) that I am simply asking questions and expounding upon the thoughts I have. I am not battling Gary to the death in a steel cage match in front of televised cameras. If I were, we would probably be charging admission and selling overpriced beer in paper cups with salted peanuts. Rather, we are simply engaging in simple diatribe to better understand how to function in this Gold Economy. (At least, that is my intention.) Debate is good, it stimulates gray matter, stimulated gray matter becomes engorged in blood resulting in a (mild) hyperoxygenated state. This is when mankind is at his best! Thinking...challenging the accepted...masticating thoughts to dream up new visions To Gary, Bob, Tristian, Forrest and the other vocal "fingertips" on this list I say "Right on!" and keep it coming! I learn a little more with every e-mail I read. To those of you out there that simply sit back and hit the delete key every time you read these messages...stand up, speak up, and make yourself heard! Challenge the manner in which the world operates. Show us how to overthrow the "coercive state" and become a society of efficient, cost effective, privately run companies with little to no overhead! ;0) "Everyone has the power to inspire others. In doing so, you will be inspired in return"---The Universal Law of Reciprocation---B. Phillips Eric - Original Message - From: Tristan Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eric J. Gaither [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [e-gold-list] Re: gary vs. eric Forrest, Well, I am saddned by your decision to base your transactional needs on the outcome of a tasty debate. You seeI am not cheerleading for the state, I am just appreciative of the luxuries afforded by residing in this great country. Eric, Please take no offense, as I'm merely pointing out the difference between some men. Some men would prefer luxury over principle. Some men would prefer delusional safety over freedom. And there are those men that do not trade their principles for anything in the world, because it's simply wrong. Tristan "The evil of the world is made possible only by the sanction you give it; withdraw your support; withdraw your sanction" - Ayn Rand --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: MetalSavings update
Well I hope you get things sorted out ok and a good Host. You can try Affordable Hosting Services http://affordable-hosting-services.com/ They are excellent, not expensive and my site is up 99.9% of the time. Their service is fantastic and they operate a 24 hour service. Whenever I have called with a problem they have jumped to it and sorted it out within a couple of hours at the most and minutes usually. I highly recommend them as a Host. Ask for Frank Masotti. Tell him I recommended you. (no I don't get any commission - they are just very good) You will find them under links on www.gold-today.com also Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gold-today.com Sign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here. https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=129542 subscribe to the gold-today discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldtoday - Original Message - From: "joe blob" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] MetalSavings update MetalSavings users have probably noticed by now that the host which serves metalsavings, www.sidereal.kz, has been off the net for a couple of days. You're probably wondering what happened. sidereal.kz was hosted by an ISP called Alameda Networks (www.alameda.net). Alameda Networks ceased operations abruptly, leaving our host off the net. You can verify that www.sidereal.kz (209.0.55.58) is in Alameda Network's ASN block, and further you can verify that Level3 is no longer routing that block, and the www.alameda.net server is also no longer on that block. Right now we have a couple of options. First, we could pick up the server from Alameda (Oakland, CA) and install it into another hosting facility somewhere in the Bay Area. This would get us on-line perhaps on Monday. The advantage of this is that it's fast. However, that particular machine is getting old, both the software and the hardware, and also some of our customers may perceive that there is an advantage to the host being outside the United States. From this perspective, the optimal solution would be to install the software on new, faster hardware, with a current OS, and put it in a rack in a non-US facility. The disadvantage of this is that it will take longer. The new hardware is almost ready to go (we're having trouble with the Intel ether card, and will probably buy a 3com, and just be done with it), and we have selected a non-US hosting facility, and we're hoping to ship the new machine either tomorrow (Saturday) or Monday. It should arrive perhaps on Wednesday, and we would restore service at about that time. It is unfortunate that we are having an outage, and it's even more unfortunate that it needs to be prolonged, but we think that our customers would be best served by waiting a couple of extra days for us to get the right hardware and the right OS into the right hosting facility. We appologize for these difficulties. Please bear in mind that MetalSavings is still in "beta testing". We're hoping to soon be able to launch new software with a much-improved user interface and look, but this situation has set us back by about a week. The new hardware is much faster than the old, and it will provide us plenty of room to grow. It's also more stable, and uses hardware RAID, for optimal reliability. You can always check our public balance, to see that we do in fact have reasonable gold reserves, and we are not doing this because of insolvency. Please feel free to email me any questions you might have. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Value of Aussie Dollar
Just curious, what restaurants in NY or London would be $1000-2000? Hate to say it but, there isn't anywhere in the world where the food is THAT good. Gary Oh, there'd be a dozen .. maybe 20 .. maybe 30 in NY where you can easily pay USD1000 for dinner for two with wine. Bouley, Chanterelle, Lespinasse, Guastavinos (my favorite), etc etc.. In London? Too many to name! All good food is expensive.. :O Anyway the point is, Sydney and Australia is incredibly cheap for a holiday just now! I just used high end restruants as an example. MCDONALDS is actually much much cheaper, dollar for dollar, in Aussie than in the USA just now. Enjoy! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Value of Aussie Dollar
I have never been to "ADNY" personally but have had the fortunate experience of dining at Philippe Mouchel's Liberte in Sydney, Australia. The food and service is certainly second to none. It would almost be impossible to describe how good the food is actually! One of the people I was with stated after our meal without hesitation: "That was the best meal I have ever had in my life." I would have to agree. Of course the company was second to none as well! I would have to say that I imagine your company made the event what it was, Mike McNamara! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Gary vs. Eric
Today we have seen some interesting statements, back and forth, between these two fine folks ... It has pretty much died down now, and HAS gone far enough. I would like to COPY here, for everyones enjoyment, a CURRENT report on how some folks lives are here in the "good 'ol U.S. of A.". This report is NOT about me, nor does it INVOLVE me .. but it does reflect, quite clearly, that EVERYone in this country does NOT have the benefits of "the land of the free" ... it COULD happen to any one of us. You may get a good laugh at the end but, be forewarned, I did NOT post this for its HUMOR ... it is to make QUITE clear that all is NOT quite right ... and it is NOT the PROTESTORS that are causing the trouble. read on: from http://www.williamcooper.com/ QUOTE .. The Attack of the Teenage Ninja Owls by William Cooper Veritas News Service - Exclusive, March 14, 2001 -- Ever have an experience that defies description? A happening that is a story you know will be with you for the rest of your life? Something that is beyond funny, that is absolutely histerically hilarious. I'm talking way down deep so gut funny that it really hurts bad, but you just can't stop laughing? I had one of those... last night. Before I can tell you what happened you need a little background. It all started in 1988 when I discovered that there is no law passed by Congress requiring me to file or pay the income tax. I couldn't believe it. I called the IRS and asked them to quote me the law passed by Congress that required me to file and pay the income tax. Imagine my surprise when the IRS couldn't do it. I did a lot of research in law libraries in southern California but could not find any law requiring me to file or pay income tax. I asked a couple of CPA's who specialized in income tax for their clients but they couldn't tell me either. I called my Senator's and Representative's offices but they couldn't tell me. I talked to lawyers, judges, and even made a few more calls to the IRS... no one knew the answer, or at least if they did they sure were not going to tell me. I made up my mind that unless the government could show me a law that required me to file and pay the income tax I wasn't going to do it. My stand was, and still is, solidly upon the law. If there is a law that requires me to do it why can't anyone produce it? Over the years I have found that the answer is very simple... there is no such law. I am not a tax protestor, and I have never made any attempt to cheat on any tax that I am Constitutionally and lawfully required to pay. I have never run, never hid, never ever made any secret about what I am doing. I have challenged the IRS in letters, on the phone, and over the airwaves to simply produce the proof that I am required to file and pay the income tax. I have submitted reams of FOIA requests in an attempt to force them to produce any documentation that would, or could, legitimize their position. I began broadcasting the results of the FOIA's on my international radio broadcast, The Hour Of The Time, in conjunction with other research that proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that the federal government has gone way beyond its limitations and, indeed, has become despotic. Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building added a lot of fuel to this fire. Our investigation into the OKC bombing which resulted in Michele Marie Moore's encyclopedic work, entitled Oklahoma City: Day One, proved that the government not only knew in advance the bombing was going to take place, but at least two agencies were implicated as accomplices. It became clear that Timothy McVeigh was a patsy just like Lee Harvey Oswald, and I told the world. It wasn't long before the Hour Of The Time became the most listened-to international shortwave broadcast on earth, maybe even in history. When I began to unravel the cover-up surrounding the OKC bombing a lot of people in Washington DC got really scared. I identified the man the FBI claimed did not exist as Michael Brescia, a government informant known to you as John Doe #2 who is currently serving a prison term for bank robbery. The White House leaked a memo to Rush Limbaugh who read it on the air during his radio show. In the memo President Clinton named me, William Cooper, as the, "...most dangerous radio host in America." After that Radio Shack couldn't keep a shortwave radio on the shelf for 5 minutes. My phone didn't stop ringing for months. I discovered that my FBI file was included in those in possession of the White House comprising the scandal known as "filegate". I also discovered that I had been targeted. President Clinton had directed every agency of government to investigate me with the intent to shut me up. People began to call and ask me why the FBI, Secret Service, BATF, and IRS had been to their homes asking questions about me. Long time friends disassociated themselves proving that most Americans are miserable cowards.
[e-gold-list] pure gold lottery
The http://www.pure gold lottery.com/ still rocks, but as the rules state, they can be changed anytimeand they are being changed ,the oddds are tightening considerably even as we speak..if you want to slay the dragon, you best be quick.. http://www.puregoldlottery.com/ best, ... forrest --Worth 2 cents??-- http://2cw.org/103300 see the new and improved e-gold related directory--click the fish at: http://members.tripod.com/~lowell_potter/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Parker Bradley raided by the feds?
I do not know you or this Parker but based on the information I have thus far gleaned matched against my knowledge of other such things, I can deduce what has gone down Hi Barb, Right now we know no more that what has been posted on the Discussion Board. Keep your eyes peeled and hopefully we will find out soon what the story is. Thanks for your support. I'm sure Parker will appreciate it considering what he must be going through. Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gold-today.com Sign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here. https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=129542 subscribe to the gold-today discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldtoday --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Gary vs. Eric
The question of taxation is a fascinating one and there are many sites you can visit which claim to have the answer with regard to the none payment of tax in the US. There is even a site in Australia relating to the suspect nature of the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) legislation under which Australia operates. I believe it is quite possibly legally to step outside the taxation system, perhaps in both countries. You have to be prepared for a battle however and to be very vigilent for the rest of your life and I believe the only true weapon against taxation or any other form of control is to be SO WEALTHY IT DOES NOT MATTER! So that's the method I have chosen. Beside it has other benefits as well. If anyone wishes to contribute to my cause... feel free. I accept all currencies in any quantities. Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gold-today.com Sign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here. https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=129542 subscribe to the gold-today discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldtoday - Original Message - From: "LaMarr Dell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 12:00 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Gary vs. Eric Today we have seen some interesting statements, back and forth, between these two fine folks ... It has pretty much died down now, and HAS gone far enough. I would like to COPY here, for everyones enjoyment, a CURRENT report on how some folks lives are here in the "good 'ol U.S. of A.". This report is NOT about me, nor does it INVOLVE me .. but it does reflect, quite clearly, that EVERYone in this country does NOT have the benefits of "the land of the free" ... it COULD happen to any one of us. You may get a good laugh at the end but, be forewarned, I did NOT post this for its HUMOR ... it is to make QUITE clear that all is NOT quite right ... and it is NOT the PROTESTORS that are causing the trouble. read on: from http://www.williamcooper.com/ QUOTE .. The Attack of the Teenage Ninja Owls by William Cooper Veritas News Service - Exclusive, March 14, 2001 -- Ever have an experience that defies description? A happening that is a story you know will be with you for the rest of your life? Something that is beyond funny, that is absolutely histerically hilarious. I'm talking way down deep so gut funny that it really hurts bad, but you just can't stop laughing? I had one of those... last night. Before I can tell you what happened you need a little background. It all started in 1988 when I discovered that there is no law passed by Congress requiring me to file or pay the income tax. I couldn't believe it. I called the IRS and asked them to quote me the law passed by Congress that required me to file and pay the income tax. Imagine my surprise when the IRS couldn't do it. I did a lot of research in law libraries in southern California but could not find any law requiring me to file or pay income tax. I asked a couple of CPA's who specialized in income tax for their clients but they couldn't tell me either. I called my Senator's and Representative's offices but they couldn't tell me. I talked to lawyers, judges, and even made a few more calls to the IRS... no one knew the answer, or at least if they did they sure were not going to tell me. I made up my mind that unless the government could show me a law that required me to file and pay the income tax I wasn't going to do it. My stand was, and still is, solidly upon the law. If there is a law that requires me to do it why can't anyone produce it? Over the years I have found that the answer is very simple... there is no such law. I am not a tax protestor, and I have never made any attempt to cheat on any tax that I am Constitutionally and lawfully required to pay. I have never run, never hid, never ever made any secret about what I am doing. I have challenged the IRS in letters, on the phone, and over the airwaves to simply produce the proof that I am required to file and pay the income tax. I have submitted reams of FOIA requests in an attempt to force them to produce any documentation that would, or could, legitimize their position. I began broadcasting the results of the FOIA's on my international radio broadcast, The Hour Of The Time, in conjunction with other research that proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that the federal government has gone way beyond its limitations and, indeed, has become despotic. Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building added a lot of fuel to this fire. Our investigation into the OKC bombing which resulted in Michele Marie Moore's encyclopedic work, entitled Oklahoma City: Day One, proved that the government not only knew in advance the bombing was going to take place, but at least two agencies were implicated as accomplices. It became clear that Timothy
[e-gold-list] Curious.. Calling all guru's!
Guys, Recently, I have received 5 credit card orders from different countries, all with the same IP address. Now, these are verified customers, not shonky... how can this happen? Cheers! Graham Kelly CEO GoldNow Corporation http://www.GoldNow.St Phone/Fax +44 (0)709-233-7612 Fax +1(312)777-4270 Want a debit card linked to your e-gold account? Apply below! https://www.standardreserve.com/acct/instant_anywhere_application.asp?CID=10 https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=103346 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
