Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[David Reagan]

>
> Worth thinking through, though I doubt we'll action this any time soon.
> We're doing our best to maintain good coverage in our IRC channels and
> folks would still prefer Elastic employees were around more often. Opening
> up yet another chat mechanism seems like a way to make sure even more
> people feel the same way. ;)
>
Yep, starting something like my suggestion would be a major project. Not
something to do lightly.

One idea, that might be easy to implement, would be to host your own IRC
webchat interface, and if possible, have it automatically open the
elasticsearch channels. Then users could go to elastic.co, hover over the
Community nav link, and just click "chat".


--David Reagan

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Leslie Hawthorn 
wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:36 PM, David Reagan  wrote:
>
>> > Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
>> like irccloud.com?
>> I use webchat.freenode.net.
>>
>> There's a big difference between, "Here's our live chat app." and "Learn
>> how to connect to IRC in order to use live chat." I actively avoided live
>> chat for years simply because I had no interest in learning anything about
>> IRC. For a new user, IRC is not friendly, especially if you are not a
>> developer or are new to it.
>>
>
> I hear you. I think those of us who have been using IRC for decades think
> it is easy. I know I find it more intuitive than HipChat.
>
>>
>> There's also the fact that you are told off if you post any code when
>> asking for help. I could see it if the code sample was really long, but
>> when people get told off when they post three or four lines of code, that's
>> not friendly at all. This has happened to me, and I've seen it happen to
>> others. (Not sure it if was in an ELK channel or not...)
>>
>
> I sure hope not - we pride ourselves on having a courteous and welcoming
> community presence. Each channel has its own culture, and some are brusque
> or downright rude. That's not how we play it. :)
>
>>
>> Plus, figuring out how to start a private conversation, or set your
>> status to away, or registering your username so others can't impersonate
>> you, and so on is not obvious. I still haven't taken the time to figure it
>> out.
>>
>
> Yes, and a pointer to an FAQ doc isn't interesting when you want something
> to just work(TM).
>
>>
>> Ideally, we'd have something that functions similar to HipChat. Nice UI,
>> and code snippets are automatically shortened unless you choose to show the
>> full snippet.
>>
>> Worth thinking through, though I doubt we'll action this any time soon.
> We're doing our best to maintain good coverage in our IRC channels and
> folks would still prefer Elastic employees were around more often. Opening
> up yet another chat mechanism seems like a way to make sure even more
> people feel the same way. ;)
>
> Really appreciate the feedback!
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>
>>
>> --David Reagan
>>
>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Leslie Hawthorn <
>> leslie.hawth...@elastic.co> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, David Reagan  wrote:
>>>
 Moving away from mailing lists for anything except announcements would
 be awesome. Forums are a much better way to have solid discussions with
 multiple people in. Email is fine, but when you add in more than a couple
 people, it gets confusing fast. Forums are also far more user friendly for
 people who haven't learned the various ways developers communicate.

 Thanks for your feedback!
>>>
>>>
 That said, if the forum idea is scrapped, please be sure to stick with
 Google Groups or something similar. Don't switch to something like the
 Debian user lists. Every time a search result pops up from a list like that
 when I am looking for help, I can never figure out if I've seen all the
 emails in the thread or not. The interface is just horrid. Google Groups at
 least has conversation view.

>>>
>>> Mailman is little painful, but with the latest release it's become a bit
>>> friendlier.
>>>

 On a similar subject, is there any chance we could get a real time chat
 app that is more user friendly than IRC? Does something exist that could
 sit on top of IRC and alleviate the IRC's user unfriendliness?

>>>
>>> Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
>>> like irccloud.com?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>


 On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:36:33 AM UTC-7, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” ki

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

Hi David,

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:36 PM, David Reagan  wrote:

> > Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
> like irccloud.com?
> I use webchat.freenode.net.
>
> There's a big difference between, "Here's our live chat app." and "Learn
> how to connect to IRC in order to use live chat." I actively avoided live
> chat for years simply because I had no interest in learning anything about
> IRC. For a new user, IRC is not friendly, especially if you are not a
> developer or are new to it.
>

I hear you. I think those of us who have been using IRC for decades think
it is easy. I know I find it more intuitive than HipChat.

>
> There's also the fact that you are told off if you post any code when
> asking for help. I could see it if the code sample was really long, but
> when people get told off when they post three or four lines of code, that's
> not friendly at all. This has happened to me, and I've seen it happen to
> others. (Not sure it if was in an ELK channel or not...)
>

I sure hope not - we pride ourselves on having a courteous and welcoming
community presence. Each channel has its own culture, and some are brusque
or downright rude. That's not how we play it. :)

>
> Plus, figuring out how to start a private conversation, or set your status
> to away, or registering your username so others can't impersonate you, and
> so on is not obvious. I still haven't taken the time to figure it out.
>

Yes, and a pointer to an FAQ doc isn't interesting when you want something
to just work(TM).

>
> Ideally, we'd have something that functions similar to HipChat. Nice UI,
> and code snippets are automatically shortened unless you choose to show the
> full snippet.
>
> Worth thinking through, though I doubt we'll action this any time soon.
We're doing our best to maintain good coverage in our IRC channels and
folks would still prefer Elastic employees were around more often. Opening
up yet another chat mechanism seems like a way to make sure even more
people feel the same way. ;)

Really appreciate the feedback!

Cheers,
LH


>
> --David Reagan
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Leslie Hawthorn <
> leslie.hawth...@elastic.co> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, David Reagan  wrote:
>>
>>> Moving away from mailing lists for anything except announcements would
>>> be awesome. Forums are a much better way to have solid discussions with
>>> multiple people in. Email is fine, but when you add in more than a couple
>>> people, it gets confusing fast. Forums are also far more user friendly for
>>> people who haven't learned the various ways developers communicate.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your feedback!
>>
>>
>>> That said, if the forum idea is scrapped, please be sure to stick with
>>> Google Groups or something similar. Don't switch to something like the
>>> Debian user lists. Every time a search result pops up from a list like that
>>> when I am looking for help, I can never figure out if I've seen all the
>>> emails in the thread or not. The interface is just horrid. Google Groups at
>>> least has conversation view.
>>>
>>
>> Mailman is little painful, but with the latest release it's become a bit
>> friendlier.
>>
>>>
>>> On a similar subject, is there any chance we could get a real time chat
>>> app that is more user friendly than IRC? Does something exist that could
>>> sit on top of IRC and alleviate the IRC's user unfriendliness?
>>>
>>
>> Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
>> like irccloud.com?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:36:33 AM UTC-7, leslie.hawthorn wrote:

 Hello everyone,

 As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
 projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
 with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
 lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
 where to go to ask a question.

 We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
 have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
 variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
 asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
 would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

 There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
 fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
 hooks and it is not available for users in China.

 We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
 shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
 of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
 http://www.discourse.org

 We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
 of our users for a few reasons:

 * More fine graine

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[David Reagan]

> Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
like irccloud.com?
I use webchat.freenode.net.

There's a big difference between, "Here's our live chat app." and "Learn
how to connect to IRC in order to use live chat." I actively avoided live
chat for years simply because I had no interest in learning anything about
IRC. For a new user, IRC is not friendly, especially if you are not a
developer or are new to it.

There's also the fact that you are told off if you post any code when
asking for help. I could see it if the code sample was really long, but
when people get told off when they post three or four lines of code, that's
not friendly at all. This has happened to me, and I've seen it happen to
others. (Not sure it if was in an ELK channel or not...)

Plus, figuring out how to start a private conversation, or set your status
to away, or registering your username so others can't impersonate you, and
so on is not obvious. I still haven't taken the time to figure it out.

Ideally, we'd have something that functions similar to HipChat. Nice UI,
and code snippets are automatically shortened unless you choose to show the
full snippet.


--David Reagan

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Leslie Hawthorn  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, David Reagan  wrote:
>
>> Moving away from mailing lists for anything except announcements would be
>> awesome. Forums are a much better way to have solid discussions with
>> multiple people in. Email is fine, but when you add in more than a couple
>> people, it gets confusing fast. Forums are also far more user friendly for
>> people who haven't learned the various ways developers communicate.
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback!
>
>
>> That said, if the forum idea is scrapped, please be sure to stick with
>> Google Groups or something similar. Don't switch to something like the
>> Debian user lists. Every time a search result pops up from a list like that
>> when I am looking for help, I can never figure out if I've seen all the
>> emails in the thread or not. The interface is just horrid. Google Groups at
>> least has conversation view.
>>
>
> Mailman is little painful, but with the latest release it's become a bit
> friendlier.
>
>>
>> On a similar subject, is there any chance we could get a real time chat
>> app that is more user friendly than IRC? Does something exist that could
>> sit on top of IRC and alleviate the IRC's user unfriendliness?
>>
>
> Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
> like irccloud.com?
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:36:33 AM UTC-7, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>>> where to go to ask a question.
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
>>> of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>>
>>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>>> production
>>>
>>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>>
>>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>>
>>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>>> We’re also still determining how Dis

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, David Reagan  wrote:

> Moving away from mailing lists for anything except announcements would be
> awesome. Forums are a much better way to have solid discussions with
> multiple people in. Email is fine, but when you add in more than a couple
> people, it gets confusing fast. Forums are also far more user friendly for
> people who haven't learned the various ways developers communicate.
>
> Thanks for your feedback!


> That said, if the forum idea is scrapped, please be sure to stick with
> Google Groups or something similar. Don't switch to something like the
> Debian user lists. Every time a search result pops up from a list like that
> when I am looking for help, I can never figure out if I've seen all the
> emails in the thread or not. The interface is just horrid. Google Groups at
> least has conversation view.
>

Mailman is little painful, but with the latest release it's become a bit
friendlier.

>
> On a similar subject, is there any chance we could get a real time chat
> app that is more user friendly than IRC? Does something exist that could
> sit on top of IRC and alleviate the IRC's user unfriendliness?
>

Why do you find IRC unfriendly? Have you tried using a web based client
like irccloud.com?

Cheers,
LH

>
>
> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:36:33 AM UTC-7, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>> where to go to ask a question.
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>> http://www.discourse.org
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
>> our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>> production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>
>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>
>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>
>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>
>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>
>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get
>> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>
>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>
>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>> on it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[David Reagan]

Moving away from mailing lists for anything except announcements would be 
awesome. Forums are a much better way to have solid discussions with 
multiple people in. Email is fine, but when you add in more than a couple 
people, it gets confusing fast. Forums are also far more user friendly for 
people who haven't learned the various ways developers communicate. 

That said, if the forum idea is scrapped, please be sure to stick with 
Google Groups or something similar. Don't switch to something like the 
Debian user lists. Every time a search result pops up from a list like that 
when I am looking for help, I can never figure out if I've seen all the 
emails in the thread or not. The interface is just horrid. Google Groups at 
least has conversation view.

On a similar subject, is there any chance we could get a real time chat app 
that is more user friendly than IRC? Does something exist that could sit on 
top of IRC and alleviate the IRC's user unfriendliness?

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 8:36:33 AM UTC-7, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing 
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
> where to go to ask a question. 
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide 
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the 
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API 
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering 
> the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a 
> Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of 
> our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted 
> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual 
> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, 
> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to 
> production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting 
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing 
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will 
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though 
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how 
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and 
> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions. 
>
> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously 
> that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing 
> this information to set expectations about time frame for making the 
> switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective 
> migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer 
> time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>
> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get 
> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>
> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We 
> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will 
> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>
> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and 
> be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on 
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Director of Developer Relations
> http://elastic.co
>
>
> Other Places to Find Me:
> Freenode: lh
> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiv

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Jack Park]

I've long wondered how it is that the ElasticSearch tribe could not build
something within its own community, a platform that uses ElasticSearch to
provide the UX being discussed here (a term occasionally used for that is
"eat your own dog food").  Just thinkin...

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Alfredo Serafini  wrote:

> Hi
> I agree with Jorge 100%: adopting a license which gives people the freedom
> to construct datasets would be great. As I already suggested too to leslie,
> I think one of the most interesting things coudl be indeed releasing the
> dataset of the conversations, and costruct over there some example :-)
> Obviously I hope there will be an ES plugin for discourse! (if it doesn't
> exist already)
>
> Il giorno lunedì 20 aprile 2015 14:42:32 UTC+2, Ivan Brusic ha scritto:
>>
>> I believe the best developers are cynics.  Never trust someone else's
>> code, that API, the OS, etc :)
>>
>> What bothers me about Discourse is that email is an afterthought. They
>> have not built out that feature yet?  For me, and apparently many others,
>> email is the first concern.
>>
>> The transition is understandable if you want to transition from a closed
>> system. The other reason, not enough fragmentation, is worrisome. If no one
>> uses the logstash list,  that is a problem with the site/documentation, not
>> the mailing list itself. I cringe at the thought of an Elasticsearch forum
>> with a dozen subforums.
>>
>> Ivan
>> On Apr 15, 2015 7:21 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>>
 I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as
 instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that
 I see no issues with the mailing lists.

>>> Understood.
>>>
 The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of
 our inputs.

>>> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's
>>> a line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I
>>> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen
>>> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason.
>>> :)
>>>
 I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an
 account.

>>> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your
>>> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
 Cheers,

 Ivan
 On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
 wrote:

> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>
> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information
> would always be archived there as well.
>
> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>
> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic 
> wrote:
>
>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical)
>> of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with
>> it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.
>>
>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
>> mailing list since everything is archived.
>>
>> Ivan
>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open
>>> source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution 
>>> for
>>> dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple
>>> mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to 
>>> figure
>>> out where to go to ask a question.
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem
>>> to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such 
>>> a
>>> wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of
>>> questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our 
>>> Python
>>> client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as
>>> the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it 
>>> provides no
>>> API hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
>>> favor
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for
>>> all of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better
>>> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for 

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Alfredo Serafini]

Hi
I agree with Jorge 100%: adopting a license which gives people the freedom 
to construct datasets would be great. As I already suggested too to leslie, 
I think one of the most interesting things coudl be indeed releasing the 
dataset of the conversations, and costruct over there some example :-)
Obviously I hope there will be an ES plugin for discourse! (if it doesn't 
exist already)

Il giorno lunedì 20 aprile 2015 14:42:32 UTC+2, Ivan Brusic ha scritto:
>
> I believe the best developers are cynics.  Never trust someone else's 
> code, that API, the OS, etc :)
>
> What bothers me about Discourse is that email is an afterthought. They 
> have not built out that feature yet?  For me, and apparently many others,  
> email is the first concern. 
>
> The transition is understandable if you want to transition from a closed 
> system. The other reason, not enough fragmentation, is worrisome. If no one 
> uses the logstash list,  that is a problem with the site/documentation, not 
> the mailing list itself. I cringe at the thought of an Elasticsearch forum 
> with a dozen subforums.
>
> Ivan
> On Apr 15, 2015 7:21 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn"  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic > > wrote:
>>
>>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as 
>>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that 
>>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>>
>> Understood. 
>>
>>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of 
>>> our inputs.
>>>
>> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a 
>> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I 
>> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen 
>> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. 
>> :)
>>
>>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an 
>>> account.
>>>
>> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your 
>> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" >> > wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

 There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would 
 always be archived there as well.

 Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

 Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

 Cheers,
 LH

 On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic >>> > wrote:

> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of 
> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. 
> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 
>
> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
> mailing list since everything is archived. 
>
> Ivan 
>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn"  > wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for 
>> dealing 
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
>> where to go to ask a question. 
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
>> wide 
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as 
>> the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides 
>> no 
>> API hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering 
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
>> favor 
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
>> http://www.discourse.org
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for 
>> all of our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better 
>> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language 
>> client, 
>> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, 
>> etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list 
>> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to 
>> development 
>> to production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to 
>> getting peer 

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Zhongxing Xu]

This is really important for us in China!!
Please switch to whatever service that is accessible in China.
Thank you.

在 2015年4月2日星期四 UTC+8下午11:36:33，leslie.hawthorn写道：
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing 
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
> where to go to ask a question. 
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide 
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the 
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API 
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering 
> the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a 
> Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of 
> our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted 
> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual 
> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, 
> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to 
> production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting 
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing 
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will 
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though 
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how 
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and 
> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions. 
>
> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously 
> that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing 
> this information to set expectations about time frame for making the 
> switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective 
> migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer 
> time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>
> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get 
> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>
> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We 
> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will 
> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>
> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and 
> be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on 
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Director of Developer Relations
> http://elastic.co
>
>
> Other Places to Find Me:
> Freenode: lh
> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/91ff6d92-4847-4e6c-9836-2908f06f3ba7%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Ivan Brusic]

I believe the best developers are cynics.  Never trust someone else's code,
that API, the OS, etc :)

What bothers me about Discourse is that email is an afterthought. They have
not built out that feature yet?  For me, and apparently many others,  email
is the first concern.

The transition is understandable if you want to transition from a closed
system. The other reason, not enough fragmentation, is worrisome. If no one
uses the logstash list,  that is a problem with the site/documentation, not
the mailing list itself. I cringe at the thought of an Elasticsearch forum
with a dozen subforums.

Ivan
On Apr 15, 2015 7:21 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>
>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as
>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that
>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>
> Understood.
>
>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of
>> our inputs.
>>
> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a
> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I
> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen
> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason.
> :)
>
>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an
>> account.
>>
> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your
> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ivan
>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>>
>>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
>>> always be archived there as well.
>>>
>>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>>
>>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>>
 As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
 the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
 It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

 For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
 mailing list since everything is archived.

 Ivan
  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
> wide
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no 
> API
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
> favor
> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
> of our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better
> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client,
> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings,
> etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list
> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development
> to production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise detail

Re: [logstash-users] Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Mingfai]

hi,

Just want to give an example of open source project that use Discourse:
https://discuss.aerospike.com/

NodeBB is probably the closely alternative to Discourse as a modern forum
software

regards,
mingfai


On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 4:16 PM, James Green 
wrote:

> What's the missing is a culture in which consumers put questions directly
> into documentation for answering by the next person who reads it and knows
> the answer.
>
> Note that it's not good enough to implement an append-only authorship for
> Q&As, the question and the answer need to feed back into a re-wording of
> the original documentation.
>
> Using plain text sources for documentation such as asciidoc within a
> simple editing suite (github is just about good enough) lowers the barriers.
>
>
> On 16 April 2015 at 09:28, Simon Lundström  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2015-04-14 at 09:15:25 +0100, James Green wrote:
>> […]
>> > It was never intended to document software use, which is what support
>> lists
>> > like this end up being used for. If I want to know how to do something
>> or
>> > what I might be doing wrong I'd prefer to place the question in
>> precisely
>> > the correct way and have it answered as part of the ongoing
>> documentation
>> > effort for others to read. This ongoing refinement of knowledge is what
>> > ultimately drives forward adoption. A mailing list of far too
>> fragmented to
>> > achieve this - wrong tool for the job.
>>
>> I don't think forums (and thus Discourse) is the solution for this
>> either. StackOverflow et.al. is OK but it's not really a good medium
>> IMO. The project should take ownership of their docs and discussions so
>> they can be correct and not just guessing.
>>
>> Official documentation which can be contributed to (via PRs is OK for
>> me) by the community is a better solution IMO. This demands a clear
>> structure from the project where things are supposed to be (i.e.
>> "reference documentation for plugin X" vs. "this is how I solved X" vs.
>> "What's best practice for LS/ES/plugin X") so we don't get yet another
>> messy place where noone can find anything and it's an exhausting and
>> daunting experience to find (or add) anything.
>>
>> > However many times have we asked Google a question and come back with a
>> > mailing list post four-five years old which appears to be on the money,
>> yet
>> > the answer no longer appears to apply?
>>
>> I agree and even worse is when noone has answered it all and it's the
>> only hit. Or my favourite: when your (generic and/or exact) search query
>> yields no hits at all.
>>
>> BR,
>> - Simon
>>
>> --
>> Remember: if a new user has a bad time, it's a bug in logstash.
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "logstash-users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to logstash-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "elasticsearch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAMH6%2Baz9e5duKcAMqCRuWy8ZhbhQW6q4QzNEdZXutrqUy22sJQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAMJPd-%3DCa9%2BKoj4ETXWepSmY6Y%3Dx%3DXh%2BNdgMXqJ0AytPN4Jv%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [logstash-users] Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[James Green]

What's the missing is a culture in which consumers put questions directly
into documentation for answering by the next person who reads it and knows
the answer.

Note that it's not good enough to implement an append-only authorship for
Q&As, the question and the answer need to feed back into a re-wording of
the original documentation.

Using plain text sources for documentation such as asciidoc within a simple
editing suite (github is just about good enough) lowers the barriers.


On 16 April 2015 at 09:28, Simon Lundström  wrote:

> On Tue, 2015-04-14 at 09:15:25 +0100, James Green wrote:
> […]
> > It was never intended to document software use, which is what support
> lists
> > like this end up being used for. If I want to know how to do something or
> > what I might be doing wrong I'd prefer to place the question in precisely
> > the correct way and have it answered as part of the ongoing documentation
> > effort for others to read. This ongoing refinement of knowledge is what
> > ultimately drives forward adoption. A mailing list of far too fragmented
> to
> > achieve this - wrong tool for the job.
>
> I don't think forums (and thus Discourse) is the solution for this
> either. StackOverflow et.al. is OK but it's not really a good medium
> IMO. The project should take ownership of their docs and discussions so
> they can be correct and not just guessing.
>
> Official documentation which can be contributed to (via PRs is OK for
> me) by the community is a better solution IMO. This demands a clear
> structure from the project where things are supposed to be (i.e.
> "reference documentation for plugin X" vs. "this is how I solved X" vs.
> "What's best practice for LS/ES/plugin X") so we don't get yet another
> messy place where noone can find anything and it's an exhausting and
> daunting experience to find (or add) anything.
>
> > However many times have we asked Google a question and come back with a
> > mailing list post four-five years old which appears to be on the money,
> yet
> > the answer no longer appears to apply?
>
> I agree and even worse is when noone has answered it all and it's the
> only hit. Or my favourite: when your (generic and/or exact) search query
> yields no hits at all.
>
> BR,
> - Simon
>
> --
> Remember: if a new user has a bad time, it's a bug in logstash.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "logstash-users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to logstash-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAMH6%2Baz9e5duKcAMqCRuWy8ZhbhQW6q4QzNEdZXutrqUy22sJQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Glen Smith]

Tyler-

Thanks. I hope it's 100% clear to everyone with that concern now.

Regards,
Glen

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 3:06:23 PM UTC-4, ty...@elastic.co wrote:
>
> Glen,
>
> We'll be setting up a dedicated instance of Discourse with the 
> functionality in question, which is still forthcoming. Once we have that, 
> we'll be able to provide the information necessary to subscribe to what 
> you're interested in and reply via email.
>
> We've been beating on Discourse for a while now to ensure everything works 
> as promised, and I can confirm that the features you're testing work - we 
> just haven't deployed the platform yet. We're approaching this skeptically 
> to ensure the features we want do what we expect. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Tyler
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:31:19 PM UTC-6, Glen Smith wrote:
>>
>> My experiment so far: 
>> Action: enabled email notification for all new posts
>> Outcome: Received a notification
>>
>> Action: post by replying to a notification email:
>> Outcome:
>>
>>
>> 
>> Guidance?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:21:07 PM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>>
 I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as 
 instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out 
 that 
 I see no issues with the mailing lists.

>>> Understood. 
>>>
 The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of 
 our inputs.

>>> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's 
>>> a line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I 
>>> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen 
>>> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. 
>>> :)
>>>
 I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an 
 account.

>>> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your 
>>> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
 Cheers,

 Ivan
 On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn"  
 wrote:

> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>
> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information 
> would always be archived there as well.
>
> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>
> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  
> wrote:
>
>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) 
>> of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with 
>> it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 
>>
>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
>> mailing list since everything is archived. 
>>
>> Ivan 
>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn"  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open 
>>> source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution 
>>> for 
>>> dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple 
>>> mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to 
>>> figure 
>>> out where to go to ask a question. 
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem 
>>> to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such 
>>> a 
>>> wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of 
>>> questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our 
>>> Python 
>>> client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as 
>>> the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it 
>>> provides no 
>>> API hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering 
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
>>> favor 
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for 
>>> all of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better 
>>> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language 
>>> client, 
>>> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group 
>>> meetings, 
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally ha

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[tyler]

Glen,

We'll be setting up a dedicated instance of Discourse with the 
functionality in question, which is still forthcoming. Once we have that, 
we'll be able to provide the information necessary to subscribe to what 
you're interested in and reply via email.

We've been beating on Discourse for a while now to ensure everything works 
as promised, and I can confirm that the features you're testing work - we 
just haven't deployed the platform yet. We're approaching this skeptically 
to ensure the features we want do what we expect. :)

Cheers,
Tyler

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:31:19 PM UTC-6, Glen Smith wrote:
>
> My experiment so far: 
> Action: enabled email notification for all new posts
> Outcome: Received a notification
>
> Action: post by replying to a notification email:
> Outcome:
>
>
> 
> Guidance?
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:21:07 PM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>
>>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as 
>>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that 
>>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>>
>> Understood. 
>>
>>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of 
>>> our inputs.
>>>
>> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a 
>> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I 
>> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen 
>> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. 
>> :)
>>
>>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an 
>>> account.
>>>
>> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your 
>> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn"  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

 There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would 
 always be archived there as well.

 Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

 Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

 Cheers,
 LH

 On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:

> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of 
> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. 
> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 
>
> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
> mailing list since everything is archived. 
>
> Ivan 
>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn"  
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for 
>> dealing 
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
>> where to go to ask a question. 
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
>> wide 
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as 
>> the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides 
>> no 
>> API hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering 
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
>> favor 
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
>> http://www.discourse.org
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for 
>> all of our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better 
>> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language 
>> client, 
>> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, 
>> etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list 
>> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to 
>> development 
>> to production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to 
>> getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>
>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exa

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Glen Smith]

My experiment so far: 
Action: enabled email notification for all new posts
Outcome: Received a notification

Action: post by replying to a notification email:
Outcome:


Guidance?


On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:21:07 PM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  > wrote:
>
>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as 
>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that 
>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>
> Understood. 
>
>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of 
>> our inputs.
>>
> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a 
> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I 
> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen 
> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. 
> :)
>
>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an 
>> account.
>>
> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your 
> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ivan
>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" > > wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>>
>>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would 
>>> always be archived there as well.
>>>
>>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>>
>>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic >> > wrote:
>>>
 As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of 
 the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. 
 It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 

 For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
 mailing list since everything is archived. 

 Ivan 
  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" >>> > wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for 
> dealing 
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
> where to go to ask a question. 
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
> wide 
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the 
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no 
> API 
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering 
> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
> favor 
> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all 
> of our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better 
> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, 
> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, 
> etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list 
> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to 
> development 
> to production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting 
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing 
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will 
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though 
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of 
> how 
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, 
> and cut over to Discourse co

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Nikolas Everett]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Itamar Syn-Hershko 
wrote:

> Right now if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read
> it and respond.
>

Me too.

I'm happy to try anything.  I'm invested enough in the community that I'd
actually go and setup the email on every post thing. The transition is
probably going to be rough but that is life.

Nik

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAPmjWd3ZXizkxhd4yZ%2BS5dE6pj%3Dp836JvcFzkvWEdBw5LsK3%3DA%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[tyler]

Itamar:

Correct - replying to topics via email is supported. We're trying very hard 
to ensure that people who rely primarily on email aren't left out, so we've 
double checked to ensure that if you want to interact primarily through 
email, you'll definitely be able to (receiving all new posts via email, 
replying to those via email, et cetera.)

Jörg:

Some of those reasons you've mentioned are motivating factors for the move 
to an open-source platform like Discourse. Some features like the ability 
to download your own posts are already built-in, such as the feature shown 
below:



In addition, unlike google groups, Discourse has a very comprehensive API 
that *anyone* would be able to leverage to export data however they would 
like. And again, if email is the preferred method, you could always 
subscribe to everything and just rely on email archives as well.

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:08:21 PM UTC-6, Jörg Prante wrote:
>
> I know I can not influence the decision for Discourse, so here are just my 
> 2 ¢.
>
> The move should also consider that users who register with the new forum 
> should have the right to export their own contributions to download them 
> similar to Google takeaway function for Gmail / G+ account. 
>
> Also, it would be a an advance to add a license note, compatible to the 
> Open Data Commons License http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/  to the 
> user contributions. This would ensure long term archiving / harvesting / 
> text-and-data-mining rights by the community. No one knows which system 
> comes after Discourse.
>
> If such licensing terms could be applied, I would find a file dump service 
> very useful. Discourse allows a Postgresql dump of a forum, and I would 
> appreciate regular data dumps that are made available to the public. Maybe 
> to the Internet Archive, like https://archive.org/details/stackexchange
>
> I support all suggestions which prefer forum access by email. I use emails 
> since 1989 and I can not make friends with systems that remind me of toys 
> and eyecandy like Google Wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave 
> and offer "likes" like Facebook. I don't need that crap.
>
> Best,
>
> Jörg
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Leslie Hawthorn  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic > > wrote:
>>
>>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as 
>>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that 
>>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>>
>> Understood. 
>>
>>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of 
>>> our inputs.
>>>
>> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a 
>> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I 
>> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen 
>> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. 
>> :)
>>
>>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an 
>>> account.
>>>
>> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your 
>> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" >> > wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

 There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would 
 always be archived there as well.

 Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

 Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

 Cheers,
 LH

 On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic >>> > wrote:

> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of 
> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. 
> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 
>
> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
> mailing list since everything is archived. 
>
> Ivan 
>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn"  > wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for 
>> dealing 
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
>> where to go to ask a question. 
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
>> wide 
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[joergpra...@gmail.com]

I know I can not influence the decision for Discourse, so here are just my
2 ¢.

The move should also consider that users who register with the new forum
should have the right to export their own contributions to download them
similar to Google takeaway function for Gmail / G+ account.

Also, it would be a an advance to add a license note, compatible to the
Open Data Commons License http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/  to the user
contributions. This would ensure long term archiving / harvesting /
text-and-data-mining rights by the community. No one knows which system
comes after Discourse.

If such licensing terms could be applied, I would find a file dump service
very useful. Discourse allows a Postgresql dump of a forum, and I would
appreciate regular data dumps that are made available to the public. Maybe
to the Internet Archive, like https://archive.org/details/stackexchange

I support all suggestions which prefer forum access by email. I use emails
since 1989 and I can not make friends with systems that remind me of toys
and eyecandy like Google Wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave and
offer "likes" like Facebook. I don't need that crap.

Best,

Jörg


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Leslie Hawthorn  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>
>> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as
>> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that
>> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>>
> Understood.
>
>> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of
>> our inputs.
>>
> Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a
> line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I
> respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen
> regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason.
> :)
>
>> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an
>> account.
>>
> You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your
> preferences and then read/interact solely via email.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ivan
>> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>>
>>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
>>> always be archived there as well.
>>>
>>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>>
>>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>>
 As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
 the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
 It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

 For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
 mailing list since everything is archived.

 Ivan
  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
> wide
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no 
> API
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
> favor
> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
> of our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better
> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client,
> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings,
> etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list
> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development
> to production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discours

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Itamar Syn-Hershko]

Fair play, will check that out, assuming you can reply to that email to
respond?

--

Itamar Syn-Hershko
http://code972.com | @synhershko 
Freelance Developer & Consultant
Lucene.NET committer and PMC member

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Glen Smith  wrote:

> * it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions*
>
>
> 
> That doesn't seem to be correct to me. Does "send me an email for every
> new post" not cover what you want?
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:42:50 PM UTC-4, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:
>>
>> I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness
>>
>> As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I
>> will probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply
>> because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now
>> if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and
>> respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one
>> relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum
>> responsiveness with it.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Itamar Syn-Hershko
>> http://code972.com | @synhershko 
>> Freelance Developer & Consultant
>> Lucene.NET committer and PMC member
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>>
>>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
>>> always be archived there as well.
>>>
>>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>>
>>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>>
 As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
 the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
 It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

 For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
 mailing list since everything is archived.

 Ivan
  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
 wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
> wide
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no 
> API
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
> favor
> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
> of our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better
> targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client,
> individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings,
> etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list
> now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development
> to production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Glen Smith]

* it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions*


That doesn't seem to be correct to me. Does "send me an email for every new 
post" not cover what you want?




On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:42:50 PM UTC-4, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:
>
> I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness
>
> As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I will 
> probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply 
> because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now 
> if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and 
> respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one 
> relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum 
> responsiveness with it.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> --
>
> Itamar Syn-Hershko
> http://code972.com | @synhershko 
> Freelance Developer & Consultant
> Lucene.NET committer and PMC member
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>
>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would 
>> always be archived there as well.
>>
>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>
>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic > > wrote:
>>
>>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of 
>>> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. 
>>> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy. 
>>>
>>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the 
>>> mailing list since everything is archived. 
>>>
>>> Ivan 
>>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" >> > wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
 projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing 
 with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
 lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
 where to go to ask a question. 

 We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
 have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a 
 wide 
 variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
 asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
 would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

 There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the 
 fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no 
 API 
 hooks and it is not available for users in China.

 We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering 
 shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in 
 favor 
 of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
 http://www.discourse.org

 We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all 
 of our users for a few reasons:

 * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better 
 targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, 
 individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, 
 etc.

 * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, 
 such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to 
 production

 * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting 
 peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

 Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing 
 list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will 
 continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though 
 there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

 We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
 transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
 We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
 user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how 
 that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

 The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, 
 and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions. 

 We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but 
 obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re 
 sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making 
 the switch. It’s not se

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Itamar Syn-Hershko]

I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness

As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I will
probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply
because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now
if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and
respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one
relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum
responsiveness with it.

Just my 2 cents.

--

Itamar Syn-Hershko
http://code972.com | @synhershko 
Freelance Developer & Consultant
Lucene.NET committer and PMC member

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn  wrote:

> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>
> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
> always be archived there as well.
>
> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>
> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>
>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
>> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
>> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.
>>
>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
>> mailing list since everything is archived.
>>
>> Ivan
>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>>> where to go to ask a question.
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
>>> of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>>
>>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>>> production
>>>
>>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>>
>>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>>
>>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>>
>>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>>
>>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and
>>> get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>>
>>> We’ll make regular updates to the l

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:

> I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as
> instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that
> I see no issues with the mailing lists.
>
Understood.

> The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of
> our inputs.
>
Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a
line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I
respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen
regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason.
:)

> I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an
> account.
>
You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your
preferences and then read/interact solely via email.

Cheers,
LH

> Cheers,
>
> Ivan
> On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>>
>> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
>> always be archived there as well.
>>
>> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>>
>> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>>
>>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
>>> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
>>> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.
>>>
>>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
>>> mailing list since everything is archived.
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
 projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
 with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
 lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
 where to go to ask a question.

 We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
 have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
 variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
 asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
 would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

 There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
 fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
 hooks and it is not available for users in China.

 We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
 shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
 of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
 http://www.discourse.org

 We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
 of our users for a few reasons:

 * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better
 targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client,
 individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings,
 etc.

 * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
 such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
 production

 * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
 peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

 Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
 list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
 continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
 there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

 We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
 transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
 We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
 user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
 that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

 The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives,
 and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

 We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
 obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
 sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
 the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
 effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
 longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

 In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and
 get your feedback. Would this change make y

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Ivan Brusic]

I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as
instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that
I see no issues with the mailing lists.

The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of our
inputs.

I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an
account.

Cheers,

Ivan
On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" 
wrote:

> Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.
>
> There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
> always be archived there as well.
>
> Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?
>
> Folks, please keep the feedback coming!
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:
>
>> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of
>> the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it.
>> It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.
>>
>> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
>> mailing list since everything is archived.
>>
>> Ivan
>>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>>> where to go to ask a question.
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
>>> of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>>
>>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>>> production
>>>
>>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>>
>>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>>
>>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>>
>>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>>
>>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and
>>> get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>>
>>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> Leslie Hawthorn
>>> Director of Developer Relations
>>> http://el

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would
always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic  wrote:

> As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the
> mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It
> works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.
>
> For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the
> mailing list since everything is archived.
>
> Ivan
>  On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>> where to go to ask a question.
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>> http://www.discourse.org
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
>> our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>> production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>
>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>
>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>
>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>
>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>
>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get
>> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>
>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>
>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>> on it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>> Leslie Hawthorn
>> Director of Developer Relations
>> http://elastic.co
>>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAHj2c4A6M4LfRUaEeTQbFx16%3D%2Bi5cvuzunB0f3rbQaeP312COQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Ivan Brusic]

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the
mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It
works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing
list since everything is archived.

Ivan
 On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering
> the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a
> Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
> our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
> production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>
> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously
> that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing
> this information to set expectations about time frame for making the
> switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective
> migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer
> time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>
> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get
> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>
> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>
> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and
> be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Director of Developer Relations
> http://elastic.co
>
>
> Other Places to Find Me:
> Freenode: lh
> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "elasticsearch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/a0c02cd4-231d-4ce5-adb7-7164de76a902%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on t

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Matt Weber]

+1 it looks really good.  Would the mailing list mode be enabled so we can
still get everything in our inbox if desired?

Thanks,
Matt Weber

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Leslie Hawthorn  wrote:

> Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the
> hosted platform.
>
> Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith  wrote:
>
>> +1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly
>> articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.
>>
>> Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you
>> stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody
>> is ever forever going
>> to invest anything in improving the user interface.
>>
>> I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL.
>> Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch
>> its own?
>>
>> In summary, +1.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>>> where to go to ask a question.
>>>
>>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>>
>>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>>
>>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>>> http://www.discourse.org
>>> 
>>>
>>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all
>>> of our users for a few reasons:
>>>
>>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>>
>>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>>> production
>>>
>>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>>
>>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>>
>>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>>
>>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>>
>>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and
>>> get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>>
>>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> LH
>>>
>>> Lesli

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the
hosted platform.

Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith  wrote:

> +1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly
> articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.
>
> Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you
> stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody
> is ever forever going
> to invest anything in improving the user interface.
>
> I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL.
> Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch
> its own?
>
> In summary, +1.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>> where to go to ask a question.
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>> http://www.discourse.org
>> 
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
>> our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>> production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>
>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>
>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>
>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>
>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>
>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get
>> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>
>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>
>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>> on it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>> Leslie Hawthorn
>> Director of Developer Relations
>> http://elastic.co
>>
>>
>> Other Places to Find Me:
>> Freenode: lh
>> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Jack Park]

+1 to Glen's reply.
I would build on Glen's comment "nobody is ever forever going to invest
anything in improving the user interface"
with this question (to the entire group):

What should a user interface for group collaboration be capable of
facilitating?

Cheers
Jack

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Glen Smith  wrote:

> +1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly
> articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.
>
> Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you
> stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody
> is ever forever going
> to invest anything in improving the user interface.
>
> I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL.
> Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch
> its own?
>
> In summary, +1.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>> where to go to ask a question.
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>> http://www.discourse.org
>> 
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
>> our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>>
>> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
>> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
>> production
>>
>> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
>> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>>
>> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
>> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
>> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
>> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>>
>> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this
>> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue.
>> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both
>> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how
>> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>>
>> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and
>> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.
>>
>> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but
>> obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re
>> sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making
>> the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure
>> effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a
>> longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>>
>> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get
>> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>>
>> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We
>> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will
>> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>>
>> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback
>> and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based
>> on it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> LH
>>
>> Leslie Hawthorn
>> Director of Developer Relations
>> http://elastic.co
>>
>>
>> Other Places to Find Me:
>> Freenode: lh
>> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to 

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Glen Smith]

+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly 
articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you 
stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody 
is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is 
the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its 
own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing 
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
> where to go to ask a question. 
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to 
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide 
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the 
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API 
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering 
> the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a 
> Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
> http://www.discourse.org 
> 
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of 
> our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted 
> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual 
> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, 
> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to 
> production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting 
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing 
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will 
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though 
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
> transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
> We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
> user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how 
> that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)
>
> The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and 
> cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions. 
>
> We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously 
> that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing 
> this information to set expectations about time frame for making the 
> switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective 
> migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer 
> time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.
>
> In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get 
> your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?
>
> Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We 
> don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will 
> impact your overall workflow and experience.
>
> We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and 
> be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on 
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> [0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695
>
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Director of Developer Relations
> http://elastic.co
>
>
> Other Places to Find Me:
> Freenode: lh
> Twitter: @lhawthorn
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/2f4de782-74d3-475b-a3a9-f8501a6ead41%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Leslie Hawthorn]

Thank you for sharing your feedback and experience with Discourse, Jack.
>From what I have seen, I agree that Discourse will allow our conversations
to be a bit more structured and we're putting a lot of thought into how to
structure the forum so that topic areas will be intuitive for our users to
find and explore.

Folks, all feedback on this proposal welcome, encouraged and needed. We
want to do what will work best for our community.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Jack Park  wrote:

> Leslie, this is a truly important conversation to have.
>
> To anticipate my thoughts, I have been working on evolving open source
> conversation platforms, using ElasticSearch. There are two aspects of my
> work (others are doing similar work):
>
> 1- conversation is structured. In fact it is not simply an indented
> outline conversation; each contribution (node) is akin to a tweet: a terse
> statement or question about a single subject. Thus, trees grow along
> subject lines. Each node is one of a question, a statement which can be an
> answer to a question or an amplification on another answer, or a statement
> which is a pro or con argument.
>
> 2- a topic map federates the topics in play, allows for relations among
> those topics. The same apparatus allows for crosslinking nodes in
> conversations simply because each conversation node is, in fact, its own
> topic in the topic map, but each node is *about* a different specific
> topic, say, "Yellow on startup". Thus, all that is knowable about "Yellow
> on startup", every conversation node, the manual pages, blog pages,
> whatever, is eventually captured by that specific node in the topic map
> (document in ES). I recently gave a talk which speaks to my views on topic
> maps in the context of using ElasticSearch in a much wider context [1].
>
> To respond to your question, I think that Discourse is a pretty amazing
> product. It might be that a topic map can be added to it to round out the
> platform.  A topic map helps to increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) in
> a sense similar to the way people jump to Wikipedia to do a quick check on
> what something is about. But more than that, a topic map behaves like a
> "geolocator" for all the topics in play in conversations.
>
> It would seem that email interaction is one of those required
> capabilities. Doing structured conversations in email has not yet been
> shown to be easy. My observation has been that users of the ElasticSearch
> email list have been very disciplined, staying on topic; that's nowhere
> near the case in many other lists. But, does that translate to
> implementation as a structured branching-tree conversation?  Hard to say.
>
> But, is email really required?  I notice that some people come to the
> email list first with a question about this or that exception; I've found
> it to be extremely useful to paste the exception in the search bar on my
> browser and get a great answer before coming to the list, though there have
> been (and still are) some sticky exceptions for which answers just are not
> available online.
>
> Nevertheless, this is an important conversation to have, and not just for
> the ElasticSearch community; it seems to me there is a huge demand to
> improve the SNR for many online communities; I see ElasticSearch in that
> solution space.
>
> Cheers
> Jack
> [1] http://www.slideshare.net/jackpark/jst-talk-final
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:36 AM, leslie.hawthorn <
> leslie.hawth...@elastic.co> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
>> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
>> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
>> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
>> where to go to ask a question.
>>
>> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
>> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
>> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
>> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
>> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>>
>> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
>> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
>> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>>
>> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering
>> shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor
>> of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
>> http://www.discourse.org
>>
>> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
>> our users for a few reasons:
>>
>> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
>> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
>> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group mee

Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[Jack Park]

Leslie, this is a truly important conversation to have.

To anticipate my thoughts, I have been working on evolving open source
conversation platforms, using ElasticSearch. There are two aspects of my
work (others are doing similar work):

1- conversation is structured. In fact it is not simply an indented outline
conversation; each contribution (node) is akin to a tweet: a terse
statement or question about a single subject. Thus, trees grow along
subject lines. Each node is one of a question, a statement which can be an
answer to a question or an amplification on another answer, or a statement
which is a pro or con argument.

2- a topic map federates the topics in play, allows for relations among
those topics. The same apparatus allows for crosslinking nodes in
conversations simply because each conversation node is, in fact, its own
topic in the topic map, but each node is *about* a different specific
topic, say, "Yellow on startup". Thus, all that is knowable about "Yellow
on startup", every conversation node, the manual pages, blog pages,
whatever, is eventually captured by that specific node in the topic map
(document in ES). I recently gave a talk which speaks to my views on topic
maps in the context of using ElasticSearch in a much wider context [1].

To respond to your question, I think that Discourse is a pretty amazing
product. It might be that a topic map can be added to it to round out the
platform.  A topic map helps to increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) in
a sense similar to the way people jump to Wikipedia to do a quick check on
what something is about. But more than that, a topic map behaves like a
"geolocator" for all the topics in play in conversations.

It would seem that email interaction is one of those required capabilities.
Doing structured conversations in email has not yet been shown to be easy.
My observation has been that users of the ElasticSearch email list have
been very disciplined, staying on topic; that's nowhere near the case in
many other lists. But, does that translate to implementation as a
structured branching-tree conversation?  Hard to say.

But, is email really required?  I notice that some people come to the email
list first with a question about this or that exception; I've found it to
be extremely useful to paste the exception in the search bar on my browser
and get a great answer before coming to the list, though there have been
(and still are) some sticky exceptions for which answers just are not
available online.

Nevertheless, this is an important conversation to have, and not just for
the ElasticSearch community; it seems to me there is a huge demand to
improve the SNR for many online communities; I see ElasticSearch in that
solution space.

Cheers
Jack
[1] http://www.slideshare.net/jackpark/jst-talk-final


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:36 AM, leslie.hawthorn 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source
> projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing
> with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing
> lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out
> where to go to ask a question.
>
> We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to
> have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide
> variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions
> asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client
> would rather not be distracted with emails about it.
>
> There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the
> fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API
> hooks and it is not available for users in China.
>
> We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering
> the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a
> Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at
> http://www.discourse.org
>
> We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of
> our users for a few reasons:
>
> * More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted
> discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual
> logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.
>
> * Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now,
> such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to
> production
>
> * Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting
> peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it
>
> Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing
> list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will
> continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though
> there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])
>
> We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluati

Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

[leslie.hawthorn]

Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source 
projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing 
with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing 
lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out 
where to go to ask a question. 

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” 
kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide 
variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions 
asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client 
would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact 
that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API 
hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering 
the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a 
Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at 
http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of 
our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted 
discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual 
logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, 
such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to 
production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer 
support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list 
- however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue 
to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are 
some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this 
transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. 
We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both 
user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how 
that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and 
cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions. 

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously 
that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing 
this information to set expectations about time frame for making the 
switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective 
migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer 
time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get 
your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We 
don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will 
impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and 
be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on 
it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"elasticsearch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to elasticsearch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/a0c02cd4-231d-4ce5-adb7-7164de76a902%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.