[Elecraft] AUX RF Input
What exactly is the benefit of using AUX RF input over that of the alternate KAT3 ATU port. I think that perhaps it may be what I want but there is a little bit of a cost... I see that the C.O.R. looks like its in the Sub RX and so you're not going to get around that. When at FD last year the other station TXing (or when we TXed) you could hear that C.O.R. operating and the RX audio would blank for a short bit whenever it switched. I've ordered an RF Limiter (ICE Radio Products Model 196) with BNC connectors. This unit is setup to limit the input to 300mV RMS or about 2.6dBm (if my math is right). This unit CANNOT be transmitted through. So I was thinking about using it in the RX_ANT path. However it appears that you can't get the SUB_RX onto the RX Ant unless the MAIN_RX is on that same antenna input. So I guess my preference would be to be allowed to have 3 antennas connected to the radio. Ant1, Ant2, and RX_ANT. I'd like to then be able to do diversity receive with either Ant1 or Ant2 on the MAIN_RX and the RX_ANT on the SUB_RX. It appears that the only way for me to do this would be to switch my K3 from the second KAT3 port to using the AUX_RF cable. Thankfully I ran that cable while I was in there and then just taped up the TMP connector so its an easy swap. But it seems that once I make that change the SUB_RX can only be the same ANT as the MAIN_RX or the AUX_RF there is then no way to monitor the other TX antenna (the one not connected to MAIN_RX). This may perhaps be the lesser of all evils being that I can't get the SUB_RX on the RX_ANT unless the MAIN RX is there. It also has the benefit of putting my RF Limiter on a port that is not possible to TX through. Am I understanding the antenna routing documentation properly here or do I have a misunderstanding? Or am I simply missing a possible option that would work better for myself... As far as the FD goes I have to be careful about guys transmitting on band with me. Last time I was there I got blown away by a guy and quickly disconnected antennas and then went to chew the other station out. When I asked him what he was doing on 20 meters when we agreed that the other tent was on 20; he replied... We're not... We're working 14 meters in here! Needless to say I was handing him a band plan shortly thereafter! ~Brett __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
I think you are wrong that this is not related to AGC Threshold. However, if THR = 8 is not enough to raise the level of the threshold above the noise you probably won't see a difference. The noise will still modulate the AGC which makes the radio seem noisier, and weak signals will be reduced by the AGC to the same loudness as the noise. There seems to be a growing body of evidence including the figures quoted by W4TV that the K3's AGC Threshold cannot be set high enough at least for some radios / some user situations. If others think it is fine, that may just be due to gain variations or people being blessed with living in quiet locations. If you cannot lift the AGC threshold above the noise then perhaps you can try reducing the noise below the threshold by turning the preamp off and using the attenuator. I don't think the RF Gain will help with this as I seem to recall reading that it is really an IF gain control. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-and-Apparent-Noise-and-Signal-Distortion-tp4504951p4506367.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Hello folks Just to follow up on this thread...listening to quite strong CW sigs with Slow AGC setting is not too flash. I would guess sigs over 75 uV or so which is well into the 9+ region. It is hard to exactly describe but sounds like the Hardware AGC loop is pumping. It is fine on SSB or weak CW. Not a big deal, I would prefer a longer hardware AGC Hang time, but thats personal preference. I have an aversion to riding RF gain controls, reminds me of the bad old days of rubbish receivers without product detectors :-] cheers Paul zl1ajy 3051 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-and-Apparent-Noise-and-Signal-Distortion-tp4504951p4506421.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Hello Paul, Do you hear any raspy sound when listening to quite strong CW sigs - not the sound of real band or thermal noise, but more like the sound of paper being torn? I should not be asking as I do not own a K3, but curiousity is killing this cat! 73, Geoff GM4ESD paulb xtr348...@xtra.co.nz wrote on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 at 10:27 AM Hello folks Just to follow up on this thread...listening to quite strong CW sigs with Slow AGC setting is not too flash. I would guess sigs over 75 uV or so which is well into the 9+ region. It is hard to exactly describe but sounds like the Hardware AGC loop is pumping. It is fine on SSB or weak CW. Not a big deal, I would prefer a longer hardware AGC Hang time, but thats personal preference. I have an aversion to riding RF gain controls, reminds me of the bad old days of rubbish receivers without product detectors :-] cheers Paul zl1ajy 3051 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] (no subject)
I have a funny story to share with the group. I had a senior moment a few months back and sold my K3 to generate cash to buy a PW-1 amplifier. Well it took about a month to realize that I had really made a mistake and I finally decided that the K3 had to be replaced in my station. A friend near me decided that he was going to sell his K3 that he had bought used and we worked out a deal. I brought the K3 home and put it back in its slot in the station console. I leafed through the documentation and the handwriting on the assembly manual sure looked familiar. I had just bought back MY K3. I checked the serial number and sure enough the K3 I assembled found its way home. What are the chances of that happening? Wayne and Eric I promise to not sin again in the future or until you release the K4. Jerry K8RA ( www.k8ra.com ) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Number 3903 is rising from the bags of bolts and boards
Well I got up at 3:00am and got it calibrated, and after hooking up an antenna, can't seem to get away from the receiver. I don't understand all the talk of the receiver being noisy. This thing is quiet. CW receive is excellent. Maybe some ops don't understand how to use the pre/att/rf gain, because this receiver is quiet. The AGC may need some adjusting, but for CW I have always turned it off on the Ten-Tecs, so I am used to riding the RF gain, which is pretty easy, and gives the best results for me. I guess I better stop playing and get the 100w PA installed. :) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Number-3903-is-rising-from-the-bags-of-bolts-and-boards-tp4498960p4507300.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Julian, You could be right and I did not express myself well in my post. When I said that the AGC threshold was ineffectual I did mean between THR = 2 and 8. Perhaps a solution would be to do as you suggest (with a few others) and simply raise the available threshold settings in the CONFIG menu of the K3. Indeed, activating the attenuator does improve the situation quite a bit but as I operate 20M and above for the most part I do not want to operate the K3 with ATT on all of the time. One other characteristic of my K3 is that although varying the AGC threshold does change the audio (and consequently the noise also) level the S-meter stays at the high S6 to S7 levels. The metering circuit seems to be independent of this setting. That in itself is not a huge issue but it seems that something else is involved here. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-and-Apparent-Noise-and-Signal-Distortion-tp4504951p4507355.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO not oscillating
Does your counter probe report a frequency reading when plugged into
TP1? If so, the probe is working, if not, then your problem is with
either the probe itself or the Q9 and Q10 circuits on the Control Board.
The frequency probe is fine.
TP3 shows 12099.11
when I switch to TP2, I read zero.
Turn your manual to Appendix E page 11 and do the 4 test steps indicated
at the top of the 1st column. Then compare the DC voltages during CAL
FCTR at the leads of Q24 and U11. If that does not reveal the problem
for you, tell us what those measurements are an we may be able to help.
From Appendix E, the BFO fails to oscillate.
BFO Output : Vrms = 0.001
BFO buffer output : Vrms = 0.008
[measurments done with Fluke 77, AC voltage]
U11 DC voltages appear nominal
pin 1 : 1.403 manual 1.4
2 : 1.4031.4
3 : 00
4 : 4.75 5.0
5 : 4.76 5.0
6 : 5.86 6.1
7 : 5.44 5.6
8 : 5.92 6.1
Q24 DC voltages are abnormal
S : 0 manual 0.0
G : 01.2
D : 01.3
Looking at the circuit diagram, nothing is soldered to the other side of
R98, V_{alc}. Could this be the problem?
I am unable to find where in the circuit diagram V_{alc} is hiding.
On the circuit board, it appears that jumpers are supposed to be there. I
am also unable to find in the construction instructions I was supposed
to (or not) place what appears to be jumpers in the area.
tnx.
Conway Yee, N2JWQ
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] (no subject)
What comes around goes around? ;o) - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/no-subject-tp4507072p4507602.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 BFO not oscillating
Conway,
The DC Voltages are OK - even for Q24. Recall that I asked you to
measure while in CAL FCTR. That places a voltage on the VALC signal
line. It normally is used for power control and is developed on the
Control Board at Q8.
So the problem is that the BFO is not oscillating. First steps are to
check soldering of the BFO components X3, X4, C174, C173, D38 and D39.
Examine L33 carefully to be certain the very fine wires are soldered to
the leads of the 1/8 watt resistor.
Measure the resistance between the solder pads that L33 and its mounting
resistor are soldered to - if the resistance is in the megohm range,
then L33 either has an unsoldered lead or has a broken wire.
Check the orientation of D38 and D37.
The other components in the BFO circuit help control the frequency, but
your problem is that it is not oscillating.
Jumpers are not the problem, but you should have installed W1 through W6
during the Assembly Part II
73,
Don W3FPR
Conway Yee wrote:
Does your counter probe report a frequency reading when plugged into
TP1? If so, the probe is working, if not, then your problem is with
either the probe itself or the Q9 and Q10 circuits on the Control Board.
The frequency probe is fine.
TP3 shows 12099.11
when I switch to TP2, I read zero.
Turn your manual to Appendix E page 11 and do the 4 test steps indicated
at the top of the 1st column. Then compare the DC voltages during CAL
FCTR at the leads of Q24 and U11. If that does not reveal the problem
for you, tell us what those measurements are an we may be able to help.
From Appendix E, the BFO fails to oscillate.
BFO Output : Vrms = 0.001
BFO buffer output : Vrms = 0.008
[measurments done with Fluke 77, AC voltage]
U11 DC voltages appear nominal
pin 1 : 1.403 manual 1.4
2 : 1.4031.4
3 : 00
4 : 4.75 5.0
5 : 4.76 5.0
6 : 5.86 6.1
7 : 5.44 5.6
8 : 5.92 6.1
Q24 DC voltages are abnormal
S : 0 manual 0.0
G : 01.2
D : 01.3
Looking at the circuit diagram, nothing is soldered to the other side of
R98, V_{alc}. Could this be the problem?
I am unable to find where in the circuit diagram V_{alc} is hiding.
On the circuit board, it appears that jumpers are supposed to be there. I
am also unable to find in the construction instructions I was supposed
to (or not) place what appears to be jumpers in the area.
tnx.
Conway Yee, N2JWQ
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and N1MM setup problem (Operator Error I suspect)
Please help me if you have time. I have a K3 with the digital voice recorder (DVR) and wish to use voice files from N1MM this weekend in the Delaware QSO Party. I would prefer to use N1MM for the voice files and not the K3 DVR. The voice files were previously used with my Kenwood TS-570D and a RigBlaster Pro interface. I have the K3 connected to my computer via RS-232 cable for rig control (works fine DX4Win logging and N1MM). I have two audio cables from the K3 to the computer sound card, which work fine for rtty, PSK, etc. K3 PTT-KEY is set to rts-dtr. When I click on the N1MM function key to transmit a voice file, the rig goes into transmit mode BUT the voice file is not transmitted or if it is, I cannot hear it in my headphones or via K3 speaker. The RF meter on the K3 does not indicate any outgoing power. Can you determine from this information what I am missing? Thank you for your consideration. - Tony, N3ME - 118 Ashwood Street Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699 Grid: FM28lm http://www.n3me.net Elecraft K3 # 2462 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 noise
With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and N1MM setup problem (Operator Error I suspect)
Tony, Do you have the main menu for MIC+LIN to ON? Have you set the Line IN gain for those voice files? See the menu listing on page 52 of the manual to understand how to set the Line IN gain. 73, Don W3FPR Tony McClenny wrote: I have the K3 connected to my computer via RS-232 cable for rig control (works fine DX4Win logging and N1MM). I have two audio cables from the K3 to the computer sound card, which work fine for rtty, PSK, etc. K3 PTT-KEY is set to rts-dtr. When I click on the N1MM function key to transmit a voice file, the rig goes into transmit mode BUT the voice file is not transmitted or if it is, I cannot hear it in my headphones or via K3 speaker. The RF meter on the K3 does not indicate any outgoing power. Can you determine from this information what I am missing? Thank you for your consideration. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise
Dick, That is probably normal - you are hearing the internal receiver noise. It should be at a fairly low level - you said it was, but I can't relate to your perception of just how low or loud that may be. If you are using very sensitive headphones, it will be apparent at a lower setting of the AF Gain than would be heard with less sensitive headphones. All I can say for certain is that when I am working on a K2, I normally plug my computer Line-in cable into the headphone jack (mainly so I can see the trace on Spectrogram), and as a result I hear the K2 audio in the computer speakers - I can usually hear the internal receiver white noise 'hiss' with the AF Gain set somewhere near the 8 o'clock position - but I can change that point easily by adjusting the gain control on th epowered computer speakers. You said you had AGC off - and yes AGC can influence how loud the internal noise appears to be. In the K2 (after SN 3000), there is an AGC Threshold pot on the Control Board, and the most sensitive setting for that control is at the point where activating the AGC does not *substantially* reduce that internal receiver noise. It will reduce the internal noise a bit, and that exact threshold setting will vary from K2 to K2 - the initial 3.80 volt setting is not a one size fits all setting - the manual alludes to the fact that it could be refined by saying but it can be adjusted later to suite the operator. The manual does not further explain how to determine that setting. Be AWARE - the AGC Threshold must be set before adjusting the S-meter, and the S-meter must be calibrated after changing the Threshold. A Threshold setting below about 3.65 volts may not allow one to adjust the S-meter properly. 73, Don W3FPR richard gilley wrote: With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2665 - Release Date: 02/03/10 03:09:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - sub balance and LOUD audio crashes
I've been liking the feel of the Ab - Ab setting for the Main/Sub balance setting lately; having AFX operating simultaneously on A and B with SPKRS=2 while mixing with the balance control sounded excellent. But I'm sure this afternoon was the first time I used it in transmit with sub/split when I tried calling P49V on 17m. So I was alarmed to be assaulted by random and LOOUD audio crashes as soon as I started keying; seemed to chop up the keying too. Sounded serious but at least no smoke and in fact it was the same with the power wound down to zero. Seems there is a problem with the Ab-Ab/SPKRS=2 combo. Changing SPKRS to 1 cures it as does setting the balance to A-Ab or Ab-A so presumably it's a software issue. Running f/w 3.68 here and I was using the internal keyer. Wonder if anyone can reproduce thisbut watch your ears if you try! 73, Stewart, GW0ETF (K3 #145) Happy ending 'cos once I sussed out what was going on I worked P49V on A-Ab.. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise
Hi Dick, The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: richard gilley gille...@verizon.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise
You did not say whether the PREamp was engaged. Without it, the internal noise is very low, and SHOULD be there to a mild degree. WITHOUT the preamp, AGC off, it takes to about noon for moderate noise audio. WITH the preamp, AGC off it takes to about 9 oclock for moderate noise audio. What I hear I call hiss, not hash. If you engage the preamp you will normally hear significantly more noise. This significantly more noise SHOULD be there. It's a preamp, and a quiet preamp is the holy grail. A good preamp will increase the noise as you hear it, but it will increase the signal more. People use widely varying words to describe noise. Here I would ask whether you are hearing hash versus hiss. Hiss sounds smooth but is noise. Hash as a noise has edgy or gritty components to it that are typically related to 60 Hz, 120 hz, or sometimes odd switching power supply. But on battery, as you describe, I hear only a hiss. At one point replacing the battery, I did something to the speaker (twisted it) where something was making contact as the cone vibrated, which added a hash-sounding element to speaker audio that was not in phones audio. I was able to twist it out. I have gotten hash off of a couple power supplies. Still the best and quietest is my ancient (20 years?) 3 amp Rak Shak 22-120A which powers the K2 with a trickle charge float voltage that keeps the battery topped off when K2 is off and will power 15 watts without complaint. 73, Guy On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:06 AM, richard gilley gille...@verizon.net wrote: With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: enhancement request
OK...I have not shared any ideas...until now. I want this! No, this is not a joke, so please review. Just imagine the possibilities! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Gl1DnMVco http://www.designfax.net/enews/20100202/feature-6.asp I have no vested interest. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - sub balance and LOUD audio crashes
Stewart, I had this problem a while ago and thought it had been cleared up, but it's ba-ack, perhaps because I started using Ab-Ab with Sub and split again recently. Doesn't matter if I use CW or SSB. I'm running the latest beta FW. -- 73 -- Brian -- K1LI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Number 3903 is rising from the bags of bolts and boards
Doesn't the mandatory cooling off period after the box arrives build the anticipation even more than just waiting for the UPS truck! I gotta admit I really like kit radios... That apprehension when you first power it up is a blast for me! ~Brett On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 6:06 AM, Bob - W0GI b...@gotoloveland.com wrote: Well I got up at 3:00am and got it calibrated, and after hooking up an antenna, can't seem to get away from the receiver. I don't understand all the talk of the receiver being noisy. This thing is quiet. CW receive is excellent. Maybe some ops don't understand how to use the pre/att/rf gain, because this receiver is quiet. The AGC may need some adjusting, but for CW I have always turned it off on the Ten-Tecs, so I am used to riding the RF gain, which is pretty easy, and gives the best results for me. I guess I better stop playing and get the 100w PA installed. :) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Number-3903-is-rising-from-the-bags-of-bolts-and-boards-tp4498960p4507300.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and N1MM setup problem (Operator Error I suspect)
At 2/3/2010 10:52 AM, Tony McClenny wrote: Please help me if you have time. I have the K3 connected to my computer via RS-232 cable for rig control (works fine DX4Win logging and N1MM). I have two audio cables from the K3 to the computer sound card, which work fine for rtty, PSK, etc. K3 PTT-KEY is set to rts-dtr. You do not state where these two cables go. When I use my K3 with the N1MM logger DVR, all I need is one audio cable. I connect my microphone to the microphone input on my computer and the speaker out from the computer to the line in on the K3. I set the mic input on the K3 to line in. I can record and play back messages using the F keys, as well as use VOX (or PTT if you prefer) for talking live. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Signal Generator
Gang: After doing some research, I think the BK E-200D MIGHT be the unit I'm looking for. There are lots of them available and seem to go pretty quick where ever there advertised. Before I get my feet wet, wondered if any of you have had experience with this unit ?? Could you tell me the pro's and con's Thanks and have a great day: 73 Jerry N0JRN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Rose's Covers Cases
I just received a dust cover from Rose for my K3: black with the Elecraft logo and name and my callsign embroidered in red. The cover is well done, if lighter in weight than some other covers I've had in the past. I requested, and Rose provided, a nice cutout on the lower left for the mic and headphone cables. A good product, well made, fairly priced, and promptly supplied. I would recommend Rose's work to anyone looking for a dust cover for their Elecraft baby. Rose can be reached at elecraftcov...@rfwave.net. She has a website where you can see her products at http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5. (Disclosure: I have NO business connection with Rose -- I'm just a customer.) --Jeff, K6JW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] TX3A DXpedition
This is somewhat old news, but I was looking at the TX3A web site for their double half-delta loop receiving antenna when I noticed their choice of transceivers: http://www.tx3a.com/equipment.html Oliver W6ODJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Elecraft K3 / N1MM Setup
Thank each of you for your prompt reply to my question. I was half wrong... I did not have the MIC-SEL set correctly. Perhaps I may work you this weekend in the Delaware QSO Party. - Tony, N3ME - 118 Ashwood Street Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699 Grid: FM28lm http://www.n3me.net Elecraft K3 # 2462 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Extreme
Here's a demo of a K3 iPhone/iPod Touch app. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYhWivg9Inwfmt=22 73, Nick N3WG/6 On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.comwrote: Nice skins but a K3 IPOD app would be cooler. Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Extreme
Yes I'd be interested in a logging/control/contest program for iPhone - or even better iPad - need a BT to serial adapter or a WiFi to Serial adapter 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- For all our conceits about being the center of the universe, we live in a routine planet of a humdrum star stuck away in an obscure corner ... on an unexceptional galaxy which is one of about 100 billion galaxies. ... That is the fundamental fact of the universe we inhabit, and it is very good for us to understand that. -Carl Sagan, astronomer and writer (1934-1996) On 3 Feb 2010, at 18:46, Nick Garner wrote: Nice skins but a K3 IPOD app would be cooler. Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K2] Follow-Up to Rework Eliminator(TM) Headers Kit End-of-Life Announcement
to: The K2 Community de: Gary Hvizdak, KI4GGX [K2] Follow-Up to Rework Eliminator(TM) Headers Kit End-of-Life Announcement Elaborating on my recent post ... Unless sales increase dramatically, our Option Bypass Headers kit will be discontinued after the next production run of boards has sold out. We can not say when this will happen because sales are inconsistent, as well as seasonal. Our best guess is that it will occur sometime in 2011 or 2012. (We plan to discontinue our Duplicate K2 PCB Parts kits at the same time.) Yet another production run is possible if we underestimate demand, although that might entail a significant price increase. On the flipside, should we over estimate demand, then these kits might be available well beyond 2012. To learn more, please visit our website at http://www.unpcbs.com/ tnx 73 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Grant Youngman N5QT wrote: Oh, good lord. This is ridiculous. The noise was so bad on my K3 i had to go back to my S-38C with external Q-multiplier just to work the contest ... and on and on. With no personal affronts intended, perhaps just learning to use the radio would help. Spot on Grant...doesn't this remind you of Orion a few years ago? FYI here's a note I got from Rob Sherwood NC0B regarding his experience with the K3 in the CQ 160 last weekend. I believe everyone knows Rob is one of the most objective critics around when it comes to evaluating radios. My point in posting this is that we need to consider the source before taking many complaints at face value. In most cases, these are reflecting lack of knowledge of some of the posters more than performance of the K3. Said another way, always use some caution when reading comments here or on eHam (especially if they're from folks who use screen names only and don't have the guts to post their calls). ## Hi Bill, I did post a comment on how the K3 performed. Using 40 ohm per channel stereo headphones, I was not bothered by any audio distortion issues. I ran the AGC the whole time, and noted no problems. I am not into the RF gain back and the audio up method. I have the AGC setting on SOFT, an option that came out last summer I believe. Due to the QRN on Saturday, I ran the attenuator most of the time. No use having the band noise reading up scale a few S units. I only spent about 10 to 12 hours on the contest, as I was not feeling well on Friday or Saturday. Worked 15 different countries and 8 JAs. Russia was a struggle for me, as I only worked one, and a few western Europe. No VKs this time like in W1BB contest. Used the K3 about 80% of the time. Semi-breaking with the Alpha 89 was flawless. Didn't have some setting right to make it full QSK, not that I normally run that way. Will sort that out next weekend. I had to drop down to 150 Hz BW several times due to adjacent QRM. The roofing filter switches in at 400 Hz, but I did not notice any problem with the DSP between 300 Hz and 150 Hz, not that I expected that to be an issue. Key clicks were a problem at times, but nothing fixes that, and I did hear one station in Idaho that I could copy from his phase noise 1 kHz away on either side. 73, Rob ### Regarding Grant's S-38C in the CQ 160 comment, below are the current Top Ten claimed scores (Multiop and Single op) for the CQ 160 CW (IMHO the world's toughest environment for any receiver). I've indicated (***before the call) stations that I know for a fact were using K3s...there could be others in the list, but I'm sure of these: http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/3830/2010-February/191049.html Call QSOs StPrvDX hr Score Club USA Multi-Op HP ***KC1XX 1870598040 1,154,256 YCCC K1TTT 1672597740967,096 YCCC ***W2FU 1756587738936,765 Rochester (NY) DX As NQ4I 15735982 39.5829,362 SECC K1LT 1559587539776,587 MRRC N7DD 1410598333752,032 Arizona Outlaws Cont K0RF 1494597433707,693 AK9F(@WB9Z) 1542597540700,418 SMC ***N1LN 15525870 41.5679,936 PVRC ***W8RT(@W8TOP) 13545774 35.5622,381 USA Single Op HP K1DG(@N1LI) 1741598230 1,292,265 YCCC K8PO 1702587630 1,185,900 YCCC ***K3ZM 1627578130 1,095,582 ***K1UO 1441587730941,895 ***W4ZV 1542586830829,332 PVRC KU1CW(@N0NI) 1473597530803,062 ***AA1K 1405586730735,750 FRC ***K5NA 1397587130653,901 CTDXCC W1MK 12855555 18.5637,560 YCCC NR5M(NM5M)1359586532595,074 CTDXCC I seriously doubt many of these folks considered swapping their K3 for an S-38C! My point is, when you see ridiculous comments like Grant quoted above, always consider the source before taking them at face value. As to learning the radio, the **current online** manual and errata should be your first stop: http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#K3 The following links are also good learning resources with multiple links/pages in each: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_operating_tips.htm http://n1eu.com/ (click K3 link to the left) http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_Wiki_at_ZeroBeat.NET In most cases, Elecraft's default settings are a good starting point. The K3 is sort of like having a sports car with automatic everything. However, when
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Bill W4ZV wrote: The following links are also good learning resources with multiple links/pages in each: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_operating_tips.htm http://n1eu.com/ (click K3 link to the left) http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_Wiki_at_ZeroBeat.NET I should have also included K8ZOA's excellent webpage: http://cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k2_and_k3_transceivers.htm Use some caution because some of Jack's comments/measurements were made prior to some of the latest hardware/firmware revisions. The K3 is a moving target because Elecraft keeps improving it...and that's a good thing! :-)) 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-and-Apparent-Noise-and-Signal-Distortion-tp4504951p4510115.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Hi Lance, Indeed, activating the attenuator does improve the situation quite a bit but as I operate 20M and above for the most part I do not want to operate the K3 with ATT on all of the time. I was going to ask. Assuming that no ATT is not a religious thing, and engaging ATT works, why NOT use it, if the performance of the AGC is the end-all kill-all aspect of the K3 for you? All that we are talking about is how much system gain is in use between the antenna and the analog to digital converter. 20m ambient noise here on my C31XR at 76 feet is around 1 uV here for SSB bandwidths, which IS engaging the AGC because it is S3. Use ATT before you reduce RF gain, as it provides the best headroom in the overall circuit. RF gain is applied in the IF amp at Q1, as can be determined by reading the schematics on the Elecraft web site. The other thing, have you tried setting CONFIG:AGC DCY to SoFt? Soapbox mode on: I think part of the reason for the continued reemergence of this subject is the p**s-poor performance of earlier receivers and that fact that their AGC and S meters typically did not engage until what was really S5 and reported it as S1. In other words we are expecting our new K3 to behave just as garbage on low signals as the old stuff, just because we're used to it. And when the K3 reports 1 uV as S3 and turns on the AGC, we think it's busted and noisy. In olden telephone days, the accumulated noise of strung together circuits created quite a bit of noise, and someone describing the other person on the end of a long distance call as distant was really a euphemism for noise. People complained a lot about noise. When the new N carrier systems came out and were being deployed, the engineers were proud that they had created a quiet system (they had) and would ease customer complaints about noise on the line. The telephone company was deluged with customer complaints that the lines sometimes sounded dead. Telco was forced to spend a lot of money to retrofit a noise injector which was set to a minor level of noise. One of the maintenance tasks I had when routining N carrier was to calibrate the noise injection pot. They paid me real money to do that. To this day I think that was one of the silliest things going. Do we REALLY want to morph the K3 back to bad old days analog just so it sounds familiar? Can't we just figure out how this bright new digital radio is different, adjust and move on? I won't even mention RTFM for fear of having to dodge bricks. mode off. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 17:41 -0500, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: ... When the new N carrier systems came out and were being deployed, the engineers were proud that they had created a quiet system (they had) and would ease customer complaints about noise on the line. The telephone company was deluged with customer complaints that the lines sometimes sounded dead. Telco was forced to spend a lot of money to retrofit a noise injector which was set to a minor level of noise. ... They do the same thing with cellular phone systems. Some systems go completely silent when the other person is not talking, which made people think they were disconnected. So they had to add a little comfort noise to let people know everything is still working. Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Re： K2 noise
Hi Mike, I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP rigs (e.g. K3). I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter function. I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in the second hand market). 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC - 郵件原件 寄件人﹕ Mike Harris mike.har...@cwimail.fk 收件人﹕ elecraft@mailman.qth.net; richard gilley gille...@verizon.net 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise Hi Dick, The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: richard gilley gille...@verizon.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Number 3903 is rising from the bags of bolts and boards
It was a blast to build it, and even though it wasn't as much fun as the K1 or K2, it was still nice to put it together, as I now have a feel for where everything is. So now it is done, and I get to have some real fun getting to know the controls. So far, most of the controls I use a lot, are easy to get to. But there is a lot of stuff to learn. Next up is hooking it to the soundcard. :) Fun. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Number-3903-is-rising-from-the-bags-of-bolts-and-boards-tp4498960p4510549.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
The same thing was done during the transition from mechanical analog switching to electronic analog matrix and digital switching. All the clunks and thunks that marked the progress of call connection largely disappeared with electronic analog and digital switches. So the switch vendors added artificial progress tones/noises just to give the caller that comfort factor that a connection was still in progress ... it's kind of silly when you think about it, but turns out to be pretty important in the overall user interface .. :-) Grant/NQ5T On Feb 3, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Alan Bloom wrote: people think they were disconnected. So they had to add a little comfort noise to let people know everything is still working. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
I think you just did:-) 73, Rick K7MW I won't even mention RTFM for fear of having to dodge bricks. mode off. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise
Thank you all for your candid response. I think I am going to forget about it. Best regards Dick On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hi Mike, I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP rigs (e.g. K3). I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter function. I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in the second hand market). 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC - 郵件原件 寄件人﹕ Mike Harris mike.har...@cwimail.fk 收件人﹕ elecraft@mailman.qth.net; richard gilley gille...@verizon.net 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise Hi Dick, The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: richard gilley gille...@verizon.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑 客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
20m ambient noise here on my C31XR at 76 feet is around 1 uV here for SSB bandwidths, which IS engaging the AGC because it is S3. Use ATT before you reduce RF gain, as it provides the best headroom in the overall circuit. With an MDS around -136 dBm and 1 uV being -107 dBm, the noise is about 30 dB over MDS. Adding even 20 dB of input attenuation wouldn't harm weak signal reception and would provide 20 dB more headroom for nearby strong signals before they started to bother you. The K3 has a 10 dB input attenuator. However, you can use a trick to get a 10/20/30 dB input attenuator if you have a KXV3 or KXV3A and aren't using a separate Rx antenna. Just insert a 20 dB attenuator between the RX ANT IN and RX ANT OUT jacks on the KXV3/A panel. If you need 10 db ATT, use the ATT button. If you need 20 dB, remove the 10 dB ATT and select RX ANT. For 30 dB select both RX ANT and ATT. You still can use PRE to get +10 dB, so you now have 40 dB of front end gain control in 10 dB steps to allow you to match the front end sensitivity of the K3 to current band/noise conditions. The downside is that the S Meter will read 20 dB lower when you have RX ANT engaged since the DSP doesn't know about the attenuator. Enjoy! 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
All I can say is that I love my K3 but maybe that's because I use it to operate on the bands instead of performing all kinds of nit picking tests on noise, AGC, NB and whatever else I can think of. But maybe that's just me. 73 Bill NZ0T -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AGC-and-Apparent-Noise-and-Signal-Distortion-tp4504951p4510722.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Lance, The ATTenuator and Preamp settings are remembered per band. So you can have it on for one band and off for another - no constant button pushing. 73, Don W3FPR Lance Wilson wrote: Indeed, activating the attenuator does improve the situation quite a bit but as I operate 20M and above for the most part I do not want to operate the K3 with ATT on all of the time. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Minor problem
Tonite when I entered the CONFIG MENU, the display reads,Auto and KAT3 and I can not change it with the B vfo knob... in the MAIN MENU, it reads Auto and some funny marks in the b vfo displayhelp !!! Paul VanOveren __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC and Apparent Noise and Signal Distortion
Rob and I are in agreement on the AGC thing. I believe Wayne has said much the same. When high-end receivers had two pentode -r-f stages driving a pentagrid mixer and barn door selectivity, it made sense to reduce the r-f gain. IMHO, riding the r-f gain control (really i-f gain in the K3) in a properly designed receiver should be totally unnecessary. If it necessary, then the properly-designed nomenclature doesn't apply, except in the rarest of circumstances. Furthermore, unless you've done the r-f gain calibration in your K3, reducing the r-f (i-f) gain with AGC on might severely degrade the SNR. Fire at will. Wes N7WS --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Bill W4ZV btipp...@alum.mit.edu wrote: FYI here's a note I got from Rob Sherwood NC0B regarding his experience with the K3 in the CQ 160 last weekend. I did post a comment on how the K3 performed. Using 40 ohm per channel stereo headphones, I was not bothered by any audio distortion issues. I ran the AGC the whole time, and noted no problems. I am not into the RF gain back and the audio up method. I have the AGC setting on SOFT, an option that came out last summer I believe. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - CW Decode w/Noise Reduction
Has anyone else noticed that the CW decoder doesn't work very well when the NR is turned on? This seems to be the case with even F1-1 on my rig. Firmware is 3.68. Jim W6VAR -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-CW-Decode-w-Noise-Reduction-tp4510962p4510962.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical
This is slightly off topic but I was using my K3, so it is close. I was trying to set up a 2 element Vertical array in the back yard today (actually for the last couple of days). A couple of 17 foot aluminum tubing elements spaced 1/4 wavelength apart. With the bottoms of the verticals about 6 feet high so I could run elevated radials to the top of the surrounding back yard fence. (My wife loves the new view out the back window, but, I digress). I could not get the verticals to play with each other, I think the elevated radials were detuning each other or something. So I gave up and decided to take down one vertical and just run a single regular vertical with elevated radials.After I set up the single vertical I went in the house and found the K3 had come alive with lots of signals on the band and even some DX. I found a pileup working a gent in Senegal on the CW part of the band and after ten minutes of trying I worked him. So I was pretty happy with my project. I just went out to put a plastic bag over the feed point because I haven't waterproofed it yet and don't moisture in the open coax end. I noticed that I had hooked up the shield of the coax to the vertical element and the center conductor to the radials. (I was experimenting with running 180 deg out of phase for end fire and forgot to change it back). I am not sure what that proves except that he radials really are half the antenna. Working Africa from here on the west coast with only 100 watts is pretty rare these days, so the backwards hookup is obviously working. I guess it makes sense that it shouldn't matter. What do you guys think? Bob K6GGO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Auto Tuners Revisited
You might look at: n4xm.myiglou.com Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:29:54 -0800 From: Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net Subject: [Elecraft] Auto Tuners Revisited To: Elecraft Discussion List Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: b4da3d62-67b5-43e5-8375-64aeec9ac...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am thinking that there is a potential new product to be developed. An auto-tuner that can fill the gaps that the other great products miss (e.g. Palstar AT-AUTO). Or, maybe Elecraft is thinking along these lines. For a full legal limit antenna coupler, I submit the following wish-list new features or enhancements to the existing state of the art: (1) Separate the controls and displays into a control head desk top type unit and leave the actual tuning hardware with all of its bulk in another box to be hidden away somewhere (maybe even outside in the weather). Connection cable should be high-speed serial (e.g. USB). Comment: legal limit tuners can sometimes be huge things and they would take up a lot of valuable space on a desktop. Surely we can separate them. (2) Provide for multiple input/output ports. Ideally something like at least two radio+amplifier inputs and possibly even 4. And, multiple antenna outputs, probably 4. I would not include a balanced line output since a good current balun should be an independent choice for a particular antenna and not something built into the tuner. Also, the location for the current balun is not necessarily the same location as the tuner (i.e. the separate box as per item 1 above). (3) Given the multiple radio-amplifier input and antenna output ports, the logic and memory choices for a match are port dependent and that information should be in the memory storage. Program logic in the tuner should allow for the unique attributes of each radio. I am suggesting that once a radio and amplifier combination is associated with a given input port that their may be some software configuration necessary so this is not a dynamic (during operation) changeable setup. (4) Interface cables may be needed to be connected to the radio (tuner control) and to amplifier for amp bypass. Ideally it would seem that such cables can be daisy-chained to minimize cable complexity with the tuner logic properly blocking out radios that are not selected. Only one input port can be selected at a time. Of course, there may be even better and simpler ways to do this. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Extreme
I keep a pair of OMNI VI+ and a pair of K3's, can't think of anything else in the world that I would use for frontline HF. I take the audio out of the VI+ before the DSP gets it per N1EU's suggestion and have Inrad 2.8 and 400's fitted in there. Puts tha vast majority of DSP rigs to shame. ;-) Sounds like The Sirens that's why I can never leave the shack. http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_EXTREME W0GI wrote: A TT Omni panel??? Blaspemy I just sold my Ten-Tecs to help pay for the K3, and that panel would weird me out. :) Actualy it's pretty cool. -- [Elecraft] K3 Extreme Bob - W0GI bob at gotoloveland.com Tue Feb 2 18:51:49 EST 2010 Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 Extreme Next message: [Elecraft] K3 Extreme Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] A TT Omni panel??? Blaspemy I just sold my Ten-Tecs to help pay for the K3, and that panel would weird me out. :) Actualy it's pretty cool. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Extreme-tp4504550p4504581.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical
Bob, Indeed elevated radials *are* a part of the antenna (actually radials in the ground are too). Elevated radials must be tuned (while buried radials do not need to be). To do that properly, connect each one - one at a time - and resonate it with the vertical element. When all have been tuned, then they can be connected together. To cancel the horizontal radiation component, the radials should be oriented in opposing directions - any pair should be in a straight line. 4 radials arranged 90 degrees apart is normally sufficient, and in a pinch, 2 placed 180 degrees apart are sufficient. It matters not whether the vertical part is fed from the center conductor or the shield. The currents on the inside of the coax are balanced (equal and opposite currents). The magic is to keep the current off the outside of the coax shield, and that is what common mode chokes (current baluns) should accomplish. 73, Don W3FPR Robert Fish wrote: I noticed that I had hooked up the shield of the coax to the vertical element and the center conductor to the radials. (I was experimenting with running 180 deg out of phase for end fire and forgot to change it back). I am not sure what that proves except that he radials really are half the antenna. Working Africa from here on the west coast with only 100 watts is pretty rare these days, so the backwards hookup is obviously working. I guess it makes sense that it shouldn't matter. What do you guys think? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise
I have both. Each has different results. The DSP unit has many settings and it takes a bit of time to set your personal setttings. I use both, sometimes together or one or the other. The best thing about the DSP is you have an infinite amount of settings. This, of course, can be undaunting without alot of patience. Bill K9YEQ KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx From: gille...@verizon.net Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:18 -0500 To: vr2...@yahoo.com.hk CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise Thank you all for your candid response. I think I am going to forget about it. Best regards Dick On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hi Mike, I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP rigs (e.g. K3). I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter function. I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in the second hand market). 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC - 郵件原件 寄件人﹕ Mike Harris mike.har...@cwimail.fk 收件人﹕ elecraft@mailman.qth.net; richard gilley gille...@verizon.net 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:38:07 AM 主題： Re: [Elecraft] K2 noise Hi Dick, The KAF2 removes a lot of hf hash from the audio and makes listening to SSB much nicer. An essential module I would say and many prefer it over the more fancy and expensive KDSP2. Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: richard gilley gille...@verizon.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K2 noise With so much talk on the K3 noise, AGC etc I thought I would ask if the following is normal on a K2. Or do I have an issue with my build 6732. This K2 has the KSUB SSB and KPA100 additions. With only battery power and ear phone connected; AGC off: AF fully clockwise; RF gain fully ccw; cw mode; fltr settings 200,400, or 700. any band, I hear a definite constant, fairly low level, hash. With RF gail fully clockwise and AF gain fully ccw, no hash is heard until AF gain is advanced from 7 o'clock to about 8 o'clock. Would this be considered normal or do I have another issue to look into? Best regards Dick AD1G Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑 客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical
I think the original question was.Can you feed the vertical section with the braid and radials with center conductor? I guess technically you could since neither one is grounded. It's weird to think about. Also I'm not too sure about all that radial tuning and canceling of horizontal radiation if the radial system is only a few feet from the dirt. It's interesting to think about how radiation is canceled. Where's it go? Think I'll go to bed and dream about this. 73 Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com To: Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical Bob, Indeed elevated radials *are* a part of the antenna (actually radials in the ground are too). Elevated radials must be tuned (while buried radials do not need to be). To do that properly, connect each one - one at a time - and resonate it with the vertical element. When all have been tuned, then they can be connected together. To cancel the horizontal radiation component, the radials should be oriented in opposing directions - any pair should be in a straight line. 4 radials arranged 90 degrees apart is normally sufficient, and in a pinch, 2 placed 180 degrees apart are sufficient. It matters not whether the vertical part is fed from the center conductor or the shield. The currents on the inside of the coax are balanced (equal and opposite currents). The magic is to keep the current off the outside of the coax shield, and that is what common mode chokes (current baluns) should accomplish. 73, Don W3FPR Robert Fish wrote: I noticed that I had hooked up the shield of the coax to the vertical element and the center conductor to the radials. (I was experimenting with running 180 deg out of phase for end fire and forgot to change it back). I am not sure what that proves except that he radials really are half the antenna. Working Africa from here on the west coast with only 100 watts is pretty rare these days, so the backwards hookup is obviously working. I guess it makes sense that it shouldn't matter. What do you guys think? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2666 - Release Date: 02/03/10 14:35:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical
It probably depends on how low the impedance of the radials and of the vertical section are compared to the impedance of the outside of the coax. Dunc, W5DC Steve Ellington wrote: I think the original question was.Can you feed the vertical section with the braid and radials with center conductor? I guess technically you could since neither one is grounded. It's weird to think about. Also I'm not too sure about all that radial tuning and canceling of horizontal radiation if the radial system is only a few feet from the dirt. It's interesting to think about how radiation is canceled. Where's it go? Think I'll go to bed and dream about this. 73 Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com To: Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT - Interesting Accident with Homebrew Vertical Bob, Indeed elevated radials *are* a part of the antenna (actually radials in the ground are too). Elevated radials must be tuned (while buried radials do not need to be). To do that properly, connect each one - one at a time - and resonate it with the vertical element. When all have been tuned, then they can be connected together. To cancel the horizontal radiation component, the radials should be oriented in opposing directions - any pair should be in a straight line. 4 radials arranged 90 degrees apart is normally sufficient, and in a pinch, 2 placed 180 degrees apart are sufficient. It matters not whether the vertical part is fed from the center conductor or the shield. The currents on the inside of the coax are balanced (equal and opposite currents). The magic is to keep the current off the outside of the coax shield, and that is what common mode chokes (current baluns) should accomplish. 73, Don W3FPR Robert Fish wrote: I noticed that I had hooked up the shield of the coax to the vertical element and the center conductor to the radials. (I was experimenting with running 180 deg out of phase for end fire and forgot to change it back). I am not sure what that proves except that he radials really are half the antenna. Working Africa from here on the west coast with only 100 watts is pretty rare these days, so the backwards hookup is obviously working. I guess it makes sense that it shouldn't matter. What do you guys think? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2666 - Release Date: 02/03/10 14:35:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KAF2 / KDSP2 (was : K2 noise)
Hello Bill, To my knowledge, K2 can either use KAF2 or KDSP2 but not both at a time. Did you do any modification to K2 so that both units can be used at the same time? 73 Johnny Siu 寄件人﹕ Bill Johnson k9...@live.com 收件人﹕ gille...@verizon.net; vr2...@yahoo.com.hk 副本(CC) elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期﹕ 2010/2/4 (四) 12:26:06 PM 主題： RE: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise I have both. Each has different results. The DSP unit has many settings and it takes a bit of time to set your personal setttings. I use both, sometimes together or one or the other. The best thing about the DSP is you have an infinite amount of settings. This, of course, can be undaunting without alot of patience. Bill K9YEQ KX1, K2, K3, THP HL2.5Kfx From: gille...@verizon.net Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:18 -0500 To: vr2...@yahoo.com.hk CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re： K2 noise Thank you all for your candid response. I think I am going to forget about it. Best regards Dick On Feb 3, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hi Mike, I agree with you. I sold my KDSP2 in return for a KAF2. The DSP functions in KDSP2 are just primitive when compared with modern DSP rigs (e.g. K3). I got my KAF2 in the second hand market at a much lower price. Of course, KAF2 is even more primitive but it is real cheap. You just pay the price for an internal clock but with additional filter function. I played around the KDSP2 with different settings (including the default one) but the results were nothing encouraging. Yes, it did function as it was advertised but the artifact was annoying. I am now happy with my KAF2 (just a fraction of the price of KDSP2 in the second hand market). 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC protection. Sign up now. Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
