[Elecraft] Test message (2) de AE6RR
Please excuse the test message, I just signed up for the reflector. Craig, AE6RR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 exposition
Dyi: Download the web manual. Figure out how to search it. GOTO Menu Functions Exercise the functions, AFX . . . . XVxADR Make notes with one of those pdf creator freebies. When you botch it up, attempt recovery without asking how here. There's always the Vulcan nerve pinch. Ymmv biggrin Brgds, Dave Windisch, N3HE -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-exposition-tp5818630p5818630.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] new firmware release
After shutting everything down and letting it set over night, I downloaded v 4.22 from my macbook pro to the k3 without incident and the radio works perfectly. This same thing happened when I tried to install the beta version. Only after shutting down overnight was I able to reinstall v 4.14. My filter configuration looks fine. So now could it be a hookup issue between the macbook pro and the K3? I'm using Prolific driver V1.4.0, K3 utility for mac and I also use MacLoggerDx. The problems downloading firmware were limited to the dsp load. My radio is grounded but the mac was on ac adapter. Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/new-firmware-release-tp5813395p5818668.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] AGC threshold
Are there engineering reasons why the AGC threshold level can be set no higher than 8? KE7X suggests that this value, if increased, would lead to better performance in receiving pileups, without having to turn off the AGC altogether. -- 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Cady, Fred wrote: I made some measurements and have posted the results for your perusal and information at www.ke7x.com. Very interested findings - Fred has a graph of AGC action with AGC THR=8 labeled figure 3 on http://www.ke7x.com/home/the-k3-agc-story : So I ask this group: is it possible to raise the AGC Threshold from s3 to s6 or s9 by simply reducing the RF Gain control? Can anybody estimate what settings of the RF Gain control would accomplish that? Barry N1EU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/An-AGC-story-tp5817486p5818820.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Barry, Without doing any measurements it may be difficult to say precisely, and I would think there would be a bit of difference from one K3 to another. However, there is a quick and easy way to accomplish that - note that the S-meter increases as the RF gain is reduced. So if you want to increase the AGC Threshold by (say) 3 S-units, disconnect the antenna, and reduce the RF Gain until you move the no-signal S-meter up by 3 S-units. That should be close to your goal. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 9:07 AM, Barry N1EU wrote: Cady, Fred wrote: I made some measurements and have posted the results for your perusal and information at www.ke7x.com. Very interested findings - Fred has a graph of AGC action with AGC THR=8 labeled figure 3 on http://www.ke7x.com/home/the-k3-agc-story : So I ask this group: is it possible to raise the AGC Threshold from s3 to s6 or s9 by simply reducing the RF Gain control? Can anybody estimate what settings of the RF Gain control would accomplish that? Barry N1EU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] AGC threshold
Need threshold higher than 8, and Slope with a number less than zero, which translates to a steeper curve. With such settings, AGC would be used for hardware protection and hearing protection only. The linear part of the curve would be maximized. Dave Hachadorian, K6LL Yuma, AZ -Original Message- From: Pete Smith Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:01 AM To: Elecraft List Subject: [Elecraft] AGC threshold Are there engineering reasons why the AGC threshold level can be set no higher than 8? KE7X suggests that this value, if increased, would lead to better performance in receiving pileups, without having to turn off the AGC altogether. -- 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? Thanks for any hint 73 - Richard - HB9ANM -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Using-the-P3-with-the-SteppIR-in-tracking-mode-tp5818874p5818874.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Thanks Don. I just realized that I can do some quick experiments to get my answer using an XG2's s3/s9 capability and noting audio level increase with AGC Off and then with AGC On and reducing RF Gain until same audio increase is accomplished. An aside to KE7X and W4TV: I too wish we could try experimental firmware that significantly raised the max AGC THR value. And to K6LL: Yes, I too fear loss of weaker signals 73, Barry N1EU On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Barry, Without doing any measurements it may be difficult to say precisely, and I would think there would be a bit of difference from one K3 to another. However, there is a quick and easy way to accomplish that - note that the S-meter increases as the RF gain is reduced. So if you want to increase the AGC Threshold by (say) 3 S-units, disconnect the antenna, and reduce the RF Gain until you move the no-signal S-meter up by 3 S-units. That should be close to your goal. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 9:07 AM, Barry N1EU wrote: Cady, Fred wrote: I made some measurements and have posted the results for your perusal and information at www.ke7x.com. Very interested findings - Fred has a graph of AGC action with AGC THR=8 labeled figure 3 on http://www.ke7x.com/home/the-k3-agc-story : So I ask this group: is it possible to raise the AGC Threshold from s3 to s6 or s9 by simply reducing the RF Gain control? Can anybody estimate what settings of the RF Gain control would accomplish that? Barry N1EU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor the first time in
That's a shame, since that is exactly how I want to use it, once I've installed it and built the XV144. Elecraft - can you make a mod that in some way displays VFOB freq while DVR is playing - perhaps by a config param or if one changes VFOB freq while it's playing, it shows the freq. instead? 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 -- No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be. -Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-1992) On 9 Dec 2010, at 15:06, stewart_bakeruk wrote: Used it a VHF contest last weekend to call CQ on one frequency while using the sub RX for SP. It worked well except if you use the REPEAT DVR function VFOB frequency is not displayed - you have to guess it... 73 Stewart G3RXQ --- In elecraft...@yahoogroups.com, Mike Rodgers mikerodgerske5...@... wrote: Does anyone use the dvr for transmitting cq? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Parting shot
Precisely!!! I'm trying to diagnose a K2 fault at the moment. I'm largely acting as a robot directed by Don Wilhelm, thank goodness for Don Gary. I would be even more at sea, out to lunch, if I were trying to cope with a fault in the far more complex K3. I've read the K3 manual carefully [fb user manual!] and I still don't have a clue as to circuit level function, sufficient to infer fault from malfunction. [I did my PhD thesis on electronic fault diagnosis co-wrote the first book on the subject . . .] ERIC VA7DZ [PhD in EE, F.IEEE, FEIC, P.Eng., etc etc] I'd like to see a K3 service manual, or at least a comprehensive circuit description. Without some explanation, the downloaded schematics are pretty worthless to somebody trying to understand the radio. In particular, the published K3 block diagram is an exercise in obscurity. In my opinion, it's nearly impossible for someone even to follow the receive or transmit signal path. 73, Jim W8ZR -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] P3 VFO markers
I have noticed that the U shaped VFO marker will shift left or right (sometimes) without having moved the K3's VFO when the K3 comes out of transmit and the P3's screen becomes active. Press and hold the SHIFT-LO (NORM) knob on the K3 puts it back into proper position. I would have noticed this sooner but the VFO's marker can be hard to see buried under the yellow signal pattern. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/P3-VFO-markers-tp5818914p5818914.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
FWIW, the user manual is fine. What you are describing, is a service manual. Mel, From: eric manning eric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca To: Jim Garland 4cx2...@muohio.edu Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 7:42:08 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Parting shot Precisely!!! I'm trying to diagnose a K2 fault at the moment. I'm largely acting as a robot directed by Don Wilhelm, thank goodness for Don Gary. I would be even more at sea, out to lunch, if I were trying to cope with a fault in the far more complex K3. I've read the K3 manual carefully [fb user manual!] and I still don't have a clue as to circuit level function, sufficient to infer fault from malfunction. [I did my PhD thesis on electronic fault diagnosis co-wrote the first book on the subject . . .] ERIC VA7DZ [PhD in EE, F.IEEE, FEIC, P.Eng., etc etc] I'd like to see a K3 service manual, or at least a comprehensive circuit description. Without some explanation, the downloaded schematics are pretty worthless to somebody trying to understand the radio. In particular, the published K3 block diagram is an exercise in obscurity. In my opinion, it's nearly impossible for someone even to follow the receive or transmit signal path. 73, Jim W8ZR -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Thanks Barry for the suggestion to run some curves while changing the RF gain position. I've done that and I'm not sure I understand what is going on yet. Need to think about it a bit. I'll post the curves up on ke7x.com in a while. Fred Fred Cady fcady at ieee dot org -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:11 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story Thanks Don. I just realized that I can do some quick experiments to get my answer using an XG2's s3/s9 capability and noting audio level increase with AGC Off and then with AGC On and reducing RF Gain until same audio increase is accomplished. An aside to KE7X and W4TV: I too wish we could try experimental firmware that significantly raised the max AGC THR value. And to K6LL: Yes, I too fear loss of weaker signals 73, Barry N1EU On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Barry, Without doing any measurements it may be difficult to say precisely, and I would think there would be a bit of difference from one K3 to another. However, there is a quick and easy way to accomplish that - note that the S-meter increases as the RF gain is reduced. So if you want to increase the AGC Threshold by (say) 3 S-units, disconnect the antenna, and reduce the RF Gain until you move the no-signal S-meter up by 3 S-units. That should be close to your goal. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 9:07 AM, Barry N1EU wrote: Cady, Fred wrote: I made some measurements and have posted the results for your perusal and information at www.ke7x.com. Very interested findings - Fred has a graph of AGC action with AGC THR=8 labeled figure 3 on http://www.ke7x.com/home/the-k3-agc-story : So I ask this group: is it possible to raise the AGC Threshold from s3 to s6 or s9 by simply reducing the RF Gain control? Can anybody estimate what settings of the RF Gain control would accomplish that? Barry N1EU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
I'm right there with you. I find the schematics to be of more use for the fine elements of the HARDWARE aspects of the K3. But the real meat of the K3 is in the firmware, which is not going to be published in any way to allow, for example, to tweak the APF code to suit ourselves. So for those of us who have always done our own prying in the hardware and maintained a degree of independence back in the old world, SMD, high degrees of functional integration on SMDs, and Software Derived Radio have made us dependent on the radio manufacturers to a degree with which we are getting INcreasingly UNcomfortable. It's kind of like having a fine topographical/photographic map of everywhere around Area 51, with of course fences and security at the boundary, heavy penalties for trespassing, and also of course, having Area 51 itself blanked out on the map. It's regretfully, necessarily a non-negotiable boundary between insatiable public curiosity, and an armed need for government security. And, while I know Eric is trying to shut down this long, long, long, long multi-paralleled thread for procedural reasons and has been fairly forgiving of it, I hope Elecraft has noticed some things about THIS thread that sets it starkly apart from the likes of true north and other famous endless, everybody-weighs-in thread. 1) It is NOT being advanced by a NARROW slice of the user base (as in CW contesters or 2M digital moonbounce operators). 2) The usual futzglop of it's-never-good-enough'ers does NOT dominate the cast of posters. 3) ALL aspects of the documentation have been questioned, not focused on one thing. 4) Those with professional documentation training or involvement are questioning the state of affairs of documentation in general, and regretfully see the K3 in the same state as documentation in general. It seems to be what the Klingon Ruler called the undiscovered country in one of the Star Trek movies. Despite all kinds of good faith effort by Elecraft and their most-excellent volunteer cast, there is clearly an unmet need that current state of documentation art does not meet. Sort of like radio front ends before TenTec, huh? Oh, yeah... 5) A serious documentation methodology breakthrough certainly IS a patentable offering. 73, and I'll try to pay attention to Eric's end-of-thread. Guy. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Mel Farrer farrerfo...@yahoo.com wrote: FWIW, the user manual is fine. What you are describing, is a service manual. Mel, From: eric manning eric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca To: Jim Garland 4cx2...@muohio.edu Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 7:42:08 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Parting shot Precisely!!! I'm trying to diagnose a K2 fault at the moment. I'm largely acting as a robot directed by Don Wilhelm, thank goodness for Don Gary. I would be even more at sea, out to lunch, if I were trying to cope with a fault in the far more complex K3. I've read the K3 manual carefully [fb user manual!] and I still don't have a clue as to circuit level function, sufficient to infer fault from malfunction. [I did my PhD thesis on electronic fault diagnosis co-wrote the first book on the subject . . .] ERIC VA7DZ [PhD in EE, F.IEEE, FEIC, P.Eng., etc etc] I'd like to see a K3 service manual, or at least a comprehensive circuit description. Without some explanation, the downloaded schematics are pretty worthless to somebody trying to understand the radio. In particular, the published K3 block diagram is an exercise in obscurity. In my opinion, it's nearly impossible for someone even to follow the receive or transmit signal path. 73, Jim W8ZR -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
As I understand the graphs and operation: AGC Threshold is the point at which AGC action starts. The higher the AGC THR number, the higher point at which AGC starts. The highest AGC THR (8) starts AGC action at S3. That is a pretty low level but any setting less than THR 8 starts the AGC action with even less signal. AGC SLP is how aggressive the AGC action is as signals rise. A highest AGC SLP number means the AGC flattens everyone. AT SLP = 15 all signals above S3 are brought to roughly the same level. Heard one at a time, two signals - one at S3 and one at S9 will sound the same level. But, since AGC works on every signal in the passband, if there are two signals - one S9 and the other S3 appearing at the same time, the S3 signal will disappear because the AGC is knocking down the S9 signal to an S3 level and thereby also reducing the S3 signal to the noise. Using a less aggressive (lower) slope number will help but the dynamic range between and S3 and S9 signal is compressed. The core problem is the AGC starts at such a low level. Background noise alone on 80 - 40 is almost always more than S3. The suggestion is an AGC THR setting to allow higher than an S3 level before AGC action starts. That makes sense but does it start to degrade the high-end dynamic range of the radio? Are we in danger of overloading the intermediate amplifiers/mixers generating IMD and other unwanted issues? Seems like there is a balancing act here. Another way to accomplish this is to use the Attenuator and/or reduce the RF gain to reset our starting point so that the S5 signal at the antenna becomes an S3 signal at the AGC level and our AGC action doesn't really begin until S5. I would like the ability to switch in even more attenuation for high noise conditions. Can that be done through the software? Still I would like to try a higher AGC THR setting and see how it plays. The beauty of this radio is its ability to adjust to different conditions - one size does not fit all. Unfortunately, its also complicated. It has taken me three years to figure this little bit out. Comments? Do I understand it right? Buck k4ia K3 #101 In a message dated 12/9/2010 10:11:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, barry.n...@gmail.com writes: Thanks Don. I just realized that I can do some quick experiments to get my answer using an XG2's s3/s9 capability and noting audio level increase with AGC Off and then with AGC On and reducing RF Gain until same audio increase is accomplished. An aside to KE7X and W4TV: I too wish we could try experimental firmware that significantly raised the max AGC THR value. And to K6LL: Yes, I too fear loss of weaker signals 73, Barry N1EU On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Barry, Without doing any measurements it may be difficult to say precisely, and I would think there would be a bit of difference from one K3 to another. However, there is a quick and easy way to accomplish that - note that the S-meter increases as the RF gain is reduced. So if you want to increase the AGC Threshold by (say) 3 S-units, disconnect the antenna, and reduce the RF Gain until you move the no-signal S-meter up by 3 S-units. That should be close to your goal. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 9:07 AM, Barry N1EU wrote: Cady, Fred wrote: I made some measurements and have posted the results for your perusal and information at www.ke7x.com. Very interested findings - Fred has a graph of AGC action with AGC THR=8 labeled figure 3 on http://www.ke7x.com/home/the-k3-agc-story : So I ask this group: is it possible to raise the AGC Threshold from s3 to s6 or s9 by simply reducing the RF Gain control? Can anybody estimate what settings of the RF Gain control would accomplish that? Barry N1EU __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:35:10 + From: David Ferrington, M0XDF m0...@alphadene.co.uk Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor the first time in To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 32f7c12b-78cc-4bde-b2a7-1e4844fba...@alphadene.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If this is in a contest, could you use the contesting software to trigger the repeated CQs? From your comment, this would bypass the REPEAT DVR function and allow the VFO B display, right? I have not tried it but that is how I would attempt it if I was setting up for a contest. Bob K5WA That's a shame, since that is exactly how I want to use it, once I've installed it and built the XV144. Elecraft - can you make a mod that in some way displays VFOB freq while DVR is playing - perhaps by a config param or if one changes VFOB freq while it's playing, it shows the freq. instead? 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 -- No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be. -Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-1992) On 9 Dec 2010, at 15:06, stewart_bakeruk wrote: Used it a VHF contest last weekend to call CQ on one frequency while using the sub RX for SP. It worked well except if you use the REPEAT DVR function VFOB frequency is not displayed - you have to guess it... 73 Stewart G3RXQ --- In elecraft...@yahoogroups.com, Mike Rodgers mikerodgerske5...@... wrote: Does anyone use the dvr for transmitting cq? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor
I'm using contest software that does not interface to any rigs (long story). So I want to use the DVR to call, while I SP. -- Don't say you don't have enough time. You have exactly the same number of hours per day that were given to Helen Keller, Pasteur, Michaelangelo, Mother Teresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Albert Einstein. -H. Jackson Brown, Jr., writer On 9 Dec 2010, at 17:33, K5WA wrote: Message: 1 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:35:10 + From: David Ferrington, M0XDF m0...@alphadene.co.uk Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor the first time in To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 32f7c12b-78cc-4bde-b2a7-1e4844fba...@alphadene.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If this is in a contest, could you use the contesting software to trigger the repeated CQs? From your comment, this would bypass the REPEAT DVR function and allow the VFO B display, right? I have not tried it but that is how I would attempt it if I was setting up for a contest. Bob K5WA That's a shame, since that is exactly how I want to use it, once I've installed it and built the XV144. Elecraft - can you make a mod that in some way displays VFOB freq while DVR is playing - perhaps by a config param or if one changes VFOB freq while it's playing, it shows the freq. instead? 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108 -- No sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not only the world as it is, but the world as it will be. -Isaac Asimov, scientist and writer (1920-1992) On 9 Dec 2010, at 15:06, stewart_bakeruk wrote: Used it a VHF contest last weekend to call CQ on one frequency while using the sub RX for SP. It worked well except if you use the REPEAT DVR function VFOB frequency is not displayed - you have to guess it... 73 Stewart G3RXQ --- In elecraft...@yahoogroups.com, Mike Rodgers mikerodgerske5...@... wrote: Does anyone use the dvr for transmitting cq? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Is this the kind of documentation you would like to see
Sure Fred, bring it on! I'd be first in line to pick up a copy 73 Bill K3UJ -Original Message- From: Cady, Fred fc...@ece.montana.edu To: elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wed, Dec 8, 2010 8:16 pm Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] Is this the kind of documentation you would like to see Shortly after I got my K3 I started on a project to write the K3 osetta Stone, a textbook-like document. I have posted an outline and a ample chapter on operating the K3 at www.ke7x.com. I'd be interested to ear if folks think this would be a project worth continuing. 3, red, KE7X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Service Manual and old time experience
I would like a K3 service manual (as a 30-year veteran repair-tech). I bought the service manual for my old diesel scout and my Toyota Tundra; for the FT-847 and several test equipment. It gets expensive to ship it to the factory from Alaska. I started out ham radio as a teenager, pretty much self-taught via the ARRL publications. In other words dumb as a doornail. But reading, over and over and building kits got me more knowledge about real electronics than 80% of my fellow EE majors had. There were a few with military training that had hands-on. My knowledge came with the years, and still learning. Every time I troubleshoot a circuit there is learning. Often it is to not do that again! My latest fiasco is re-building a HVPS for my 2m-8877 amp. It is now working better than when it was manufactured. the 8877 is home-built as is a lot of my station. But some things are better left to factory making...I not going to build a car or a TV. I cut my teeth as a repair tech in a marine radio shop where lots of stuff had no manual. So I really value a manual for making servicing less of a chore. The HVPS only had an incorrect schematic. I reverse-engineered it so now I have both the schematic and a pictorial diagram (and a couple photos). Way too much time for something with those few components. Starting out in ham radio? Its an adventure in learning. Its a journey, so stop asking when are we getting there, and enjoy the ride! I was licensed in 1958 at age 14 as a Novice. That was awhile ago. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-800*w, 432-100w, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == *temp not in service __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
I don't have a P#, so this is pure conjecture. How about a cable from the SteppIR controller DATA OUT to the P3? 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 10:08 AM, Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote: I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? Thanks for any hint 73 - Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
SteppIR makes (and describes for home brew) a splitter cable designed just for this, don't they? http://www.steppir.com/files/Y%20-%20Cable.pdf I don't own a SteppIR antenna, so I don't have any personal experience with this... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:16 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode I don't have a P#, so this is pure conjecture. How about a cable from the SteppIR controller DATA OUT to the P3? 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 10:08 AM, Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote: I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? Thanks for any hint 73 - Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
I don't have a P3 but I use the SteppIR Y-cable to connect my K3, SteppIR controller, and computer. The computer is running DXLab's Commander rig control program that polls the radio, and the SteppIR eavesdrops to get the frequency. It works fine. Jim N7US -Original Message- SteppIR makes (and describes for home brew) a splitter cable designed just for this, don't they? http://www.steppir.com/files/Y%20-%20Cable.pdf I don't own a SteppIR antenna, so I don't have any personal experience with this... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- I don't have a P3, so this is pure conjecture. How about a cable from the SteppIR controller DATA OUT to the P3? 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 10:08 AM, Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote: I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? - Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
Doesn't the RS-232 bus daisy chain through the P3? K3 to P3 XCVR in, P3 out to PC or the Steppir controller or what ever 73 Elliott WA6TLA - Original Message - From: Dick Dievendorff die...@comcast.net To: n...@nf4l.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode SteppIR makes (and describes for home brew) a splitter cable designed just for this, don't they? http://www.steppir.com/files/Y%20-%20Cable.pdf I don't own a SteppIR antenna, so I don't have any personal experience with this... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:16 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode I don't have a P#, so this is pure conjecture. How about a cable from the SteppIR controller DATA OUT to the P3? 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 10:08 AM, Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote: I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? Thanks for any hint 73 - Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
On Dec 9, 2010, at 12/99:17 AM, k...@aol.com wrote: But, since AGC works on every signal in the passband, if there are two signals - one S9 and the other S3 appearing at the same time, the S3 signal will disappear because the AGC is knocking down the S9 signal to an S3 level and thereby also reducing the S3 signal to the noise. My impression from reading what has transpired is that some people are more concerned that when the S9 signal is *not* there, that the S3 appears to be too loud? We know that the S9+ signals have to be kept from saturating the A/D converter (or even kept in check so the large signal doesn't do naughty things to the IF amplifier and the SA612 second mixer -- I don't know which of these three is the wimpiest in the chain). So some AGC is neccessary. Perhaps people will be happier if the AGC response is not as linear (in the log-log scale) as the one in the K3 once you have past the AGC threshold. I.e., perhaps people would care less if an S7 signal sound as loud as an S9 signal, but they do want the S3 signal to sound less loud as the S7 signal. A non-linear transfer function like that is certainly easy to implement (as long as I don't have to be the one to implement it :-), but will this make more people happy? Who knows? Basically, this is what I am simple-mindedly visualizing: currently, there are only two parameters to control a piecewise linear curve. Imagine that there are three parameters, the current two, plus a upper threshold, after which the slope becomes 15 (i.e. flat at S0 to THR, then constant SLOPE until upper threshold and then flat from there until the front end starts to smoke),. You then smooth out the piecewise linear curve using a pair of homotopy between those three partitions. You will end up with (1) a smooth curve instead of the piecewise linear one currently, and (2) a way to say I care more about distinguishing an S3 from an S9 signal than I do an S7 and S9 signal. Notice that if a simple homotopy is applied to smooth the AGC transfer function, and even if upper threshold is set to S7, you will still hear a difference between S7 and S9 -- just much less than between S3 and S9. Also, if the AGC curve is no longer piecewise linear you will still hear the S3 signal even if the lower threshold is set to an S3. I still think the only way to satisfy everybody is if everyone would homebrew their own rig, or sell an open commercial rig where you are allowed to make any mods -- hardware, firmware, or software. See first option :-) :-). 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode
They do make a 'Y' cable, and I have one. It connects to the computer's RS232 output, and the K3's RS232 input. There is a 2 conductor offshoot that carries the TXD and ground to the SteppIR controller. If the P3 needed more than that, then I don't think it would work. Or maybe route it from the computer to the P3, and then a cable from the P3 to the K3. Fun to figure out. I'll put in a few hours if someone will send me a free P3.:-) 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 1:29 PM, Dick Dievendorff wrote: SteppIR makes (and describes for home brew) a splitter cable designed just for this, don't they? http://www.steppir.com/files/Y%20-%20Cable.pdf I don't own a SteppIR antenna, so I don't have any personal experience with this... Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:16 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Using the P3 with the SteppIR in tracking mode I don't have a P#, so this is pure conjecture. How about a cable from the SteppIR controller DATA OUT to the P3? 73, Mike NF4L On 12/9/2010 10:08 AM, Richard Squire - HB9ANM wrote: I'm currently using the serial port on the K3 for the SteppIR Yagi to track the VFO. Works fine. Is anyone using the P3 together with the SteppIR in tracking mode? Maybe using a Y-cable? Thanks for any hint 73 - Richard - HB9ANM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
There is an important philosophical point here. While it IS true that I have 52 years of slogging and suffering through electronic misconceptions and outright falsehoods enroute to what pitifully little I know, and can definitely say that I came by a lot (most?) of what I know the hard way, we have schools because we value the idea that it's BETTER that something, which caused ME half-a-life's grief to discern, can be taught to a fifth grader out of the box. That IS at some level deflating for the oldies, but we DO hope our children can use our learning as FOUNDATIONAL, and take it on to a higher level. To wish that advantage for our fellow hams is, in a word, civilization. I buy your excellent Microham stuff (and recommend it to others) because it gives me a jump ahead, and I can take my pleasant, sweet, sipping-a-mint-julip time learning all the cute things you guys put in it. To fuzzily extend your documentation thinking, the only worthy proper distribution format of a Microham box would be as a box of parts, to insure that the purchaser suffered enough to be an acceptable recipient of the Microham mojo. 73, Guy. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: 5) A serious documentation methodology breakthrough certainly IS a patentable offering. What you are seeking falls in the category of expert systems. Too many of the posters here are simply demanding documentation that tells them what to do in every possible situation - no matter how unlikely the situation or whether the operation/usage is even within the design parameters of the K3. In essence, those who are complaining about the documentation are demanding that the learning curve be made flat. They believe they are *owed* the same operating experience as others have gained through decades/years/months of experience. This is but one more facet of the fairness mantra that has become so prevalent in western societies. I, for one, would be upset at underwriting the overhead of developing and implementing these expert systems when they only serve those who think the world owes them and refuse to accept responsibility for their own results. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/9/2010 12:04 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: I'm right there with you. I find the schematics to be of more use for the fine elements of the HARDWARE aspects of the K3. But the real meat of the K3 is in the firmware, which is not going to be published in any way to allow, for example, to tweak the APF code to suit ourselves. So for those of us who have always done our own prying in the hardware and maintained a degree of independence back in the old world, SMD, high degrees of functional integration on SMDs, and Software Derived Radio have made us dependent on the radio manufacturers to a degree with which we are getting INcreasingly UNcomfortable. It's kind of like having a fine topographical/photographic map of everywhere around Area 51, with of course fences and security at the boundary, heavy penalties for trespassing, and also of course, having Area 51 itself blanked out on the map. It's regretfully, necessarily a non-negotiable boundary between insatiable public curiosity, and an armed need for government security. And, while I know Eric is trying to shut down this long, long, long, long multi-paralleled thread for procedural reasons and has been fairly forgiving of it, I hope Elecraft has noticed some things about THIS thread that sets it starkly apart from the likes of true north and other famous endless, everybody-weighs-in thread. 1) It is NOT being advanced by a NARROW slice of the user base (as in CW contesters or 2M digital moonbounce operators). 2) The usual futzglop of it's-never-good-enough'ers does NOT dominate the cast of posters. 3) ALL aspects of the documentation have been questioned, not focused on one thing. 4) Those with professional documentation training or involvement are questioning the state of affairs of documentation in general, and regretfully see the K3 in the same state as documentation in general. It seems to be what the Klingon Ruler called the undiscovered country in one of the Star Trek movies. Despite all kinds of good faith effort by Elecraft and their most-excellent volunteer cast, there is clearly an unmet need that current state of documentation art does not meet. Sort of like radio front ends before TenTec, huh? Oh, yeah... 5) A serious documentation methodology breakthrough certainly IS a patentable offering. 73, and I'll try to pay attention to Eric's end-of-thread. Guy. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Mel Farrerfarrerfo...@yahoo.com wrote: FWIW, the user manual is fine. What you are describing, is a service manual. Mel, From: eric manningeric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca To: Jim Garland4cx2...@muohio.edu Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Re: [Elecraft] Service Manual and old time experience
On Dec 9, 2010, at 12/910:04 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: But reading, over and over and building kits got me more knowledge about real electronics than 80% of my fellow EE majors had. There were a few with military training that had hands-on. My knowledge came with the years, and still learning. This reminds me of two computing systems at the Stanford Graduate School of Business back in the 1970s. One of them, used by the Masters' students, was named HOW. The other, used by the Ph.D students, was named WHY. (Generally, the graduates from the former became rich and the graduates from the latter became professors.) 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
I have no doubt that AGC adjustments are largely a matter of personal preference, and I congratulate Elecraft on making the K3 as adjustable as it is without overwhelming us with so many variations that we'd go crazy trying to figure it out. As an example of individual adjustments, I used the K3 as my run radio in CQWW CW from P49Y in 2009. Because I wanted help thinning out the pileup, I found that setting the SLP to 1, but leaving the AGC on worked well, and allowed me to ride the RF gain control to help distinguish signals while still offering some AGC protection against very strong signals. OTOH, in this years CQWW CW, where I was just doing some SP DXing from my home station, I set the SLP to 6, to allow me to turn the gain up higher to detect weak signals while still having protection against very strong ones. Using SLP 1 in that scenario with the RF gain all the way up was just too close to not having AGC at all. So I encourage everyone to experiment within the existing framework. 73, Andy ae6y - Original Message - From: Kok Chen c...@mac.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: k...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story On Dec 9, 2010, at 12/99:17 AM, k...@aol.com wrote: But, since AGC works on every signal in the passband, if there are two signals - one S9 and the other S3 appearing at the same time, the S3 signal will disappear because the AGC is knocking down the S9 signal to an S3 level and thereby also reducing the S3 signal to the noise. My impression from reading what has transpired is that some people are more concerned that when the S9 signal is *not* there, that the S3 appears to be too loud? We know that the S9+ signals have to be kept from saturating the A/D converter (or even kept in check so the large signal doesn't do naughty things to the IF amplifier and the SA612 second mixer -- I don't know which of these three is the wimpiest in the chain). So some AGC is neccessary. Perhaps people will be happier if the AGC response is not as linear (in the log-log scale) as the one in the K3 once you have past the AGC threshold. I.e., perhaps people would care less if an S7 signal sound as loud as an S9 signal, but they do want the S3 signal to sound less loud as the S7 signal. A non-linear transfer function like that is certainly easy to implement (as long as I don't have to be the one to implement it :-), but will this make more people happy? Who knows? Basically, this is what I am simple-mindedly visualizing: currently, there are only two parameters to control a piecewise linear curve. Imagine that there are three parameters, the current two, plus a upper threshold, after which the slope becomes 15 (i.e. flat at S0 to THR, then constant SLOPE until upper threshold and then flat from there until the front end starts to smoke),. You then smooth out the piecewise linear curve using a pair of homotopy between those three partitions. You will end up with (1) a smooth curve instead of the piecewise linear one currently, and (2) a way to say I care more about distinguishing an S3 from an S9 signal than I do an S7 and S9 signal. Notice that if a simple homotopy is applied to smooth the AGC transfer function, and even if upper threshold is set to S7, you will still hear a difference between S7 and S9 -- just much less than between S3 and S9. Also, if the AGC curve is no longer piecewise linear you will still hear the S3 signal even if the lower threshold is set to an S3. I still think the only way to satisfy everybody is if everyone would homebrew their own rig, or sell an open commercial rig where you are allowed to make any mods -- hardware, firmware, or software. See first option :-) :-). 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [OT] Long Delayed Echoes
I'm aware of the phenomenon of Long Delayed Echoes in amateur radio. What I wasn't aware of was that they could extend to mail reflectors. 73, Dick - KA5KKT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
That is why it would be highly desirable to be able to quickly change AGC settings on the fly, especially when you consider the additional effect that different band noise has on the optimum AGC profile. I can understand Elecraft's reluctance to let users mess with the DSP code via macros, but I don't understand why it should not be possible to use macros to select from a few different AGC settings that have been preset using the CONFIG menu. It doesn't seem rational to me to build all that versatility into the AGC system so that it can be tailored to deal with all sorts of operating conditions ... different levels and types of band noise, different degrees of QRM, different levels of signal strengths, etc ... and then force you to choose only one setting for everything, especially during a contest. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/9/2010 12:20 PM, Andrew Faber wrote: I have no doubt that AGC adjustments are largely a matter of personal preference, and I congratulate Elecraft on making the K3 as adjustable as it is without overwhelming us with so many variations that we'd go crazy trying to figure it out. As an example of individual adjustments, I used the K3 as my run radio in CQWW CW from P49Y in 2009. Because I wanted help thinning out the pileup, I found that setting the SLP to 1, but leaving the AGC on worked well, and allowed me to ride the RF gain control to help distinguish signals while still offering some AGC protection against very strong signals. OTOH, in this years CQWW CW, where I was just doing some SP DXing from my home station, I set the SLP to 6, to allow me to turn the gain up higher to detect weak signals while still having protection against very strong ones. Using SLP 1 in that scenario with the RF gain all the way up was just too close to not having AGC at all. So I encourage everyone to experiment within the existing framework. 73, Andy ae6y __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Dave, You can *effectively* increase the AGC threshold by 10 dB very quickly - just turn on the attenuator. Actually, that is more effective than reducing the RF Gain because it happens at the receiver input rather than at the IF. Yes, you can turn the attenuator of the K3 on whether or not the Preamp is on. And, if you have the S-meter set for abs (absolute) mode, it will not change with the attenuator or preamp. If you have signals high enough to produce greater than an S-3 level, you will still hear them when you turn the attenuator on, and the dynamic range of the K3 is retained. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 3:02 PM, David Gilbert wrote: That is why it would be highly desirable to be able to quickly change AGC settings on the fly, especially when you consider the additional effect that different band noise has on the optimum AGC profile. I can understand Elecraft's reluctance to let users mess with the DSP code via macros, but I don't understand why it should not be possible to use macros to select from a few different AGC settings that have been preset using the CONFIG menu. It doesn't seem rational to me to build all that versatility into the AGC system so that it can be tailored to deal with all sorts of operating conditions ... different levels and types of band noise, different degrees of QRM, different levels of signal strengths, etc ... and then force you to choose only one setting for everything, especially during a contest. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] Ameritron RCS-12
Is anyone using an Ameritron RCS-12 antenna switch controller? If so, would you share the details? FWIW, my switch is a WX0B RatPack. 73, Mike NF4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 for sale
FOR SALE ElecCraft K3-/10 Transeiver - Serial #2552 With KBPF 3 General coverage MH2R Mike KUSB adapter Power cord Manual Sent to APTOS for upgrade and checkout in February 2009. Has never been on the air. Mint condition. Just too much radio for an old fogey like me (George Luhr W9ZZA 73’s Price $1400 + shipping. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] AGC threshold
I have suggested an AGC setting where the response is linear until a maximum audio level is reached, where the AGC cuts in flat with with a slow decay that converts to fast decay over one second. To set up for this, turn your audio to your normal audio. Then tune in a very strong carrier. Adjust the audio limiter in config to the loudest tone you want to hear. Use the RF gain/PRE/ATT to get the band ambient noise at a comfortable level. For this contest AGC, light both the S and F on the display. I believe this will give the results of riding RF gain with no AGC, without the blasts. For myself, the above should be what you should get with AGC in the off position, but that is another discussion. 73, Guy. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Dave Hachadorian k...@arrl.net wrote: Need threshold higher than 8, and Slope with a number less than zero, which translates to a steeper curve. With such settings, AGC would be used for hardware protection and hearing protection only. The linear part of the curve would be maximized. Dave Hachadorian, K6LL Yuma, AZ -Original Message- From: Pete Smith Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:01 AM To: Elecraft List Subject: [Elecraft] AGC threshold Are there engineering reasons why the AGC threshold level can be set no higher than 8? KE7X suggests that this value, if increased, would lead to better performance in receiving pileups, without having to turn off the AGC altogether. -- 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
This is exactly what I found useful during the CQ WW CW contest. I did some 500+ QSOs and found that it is easier to listen to the K3 with the Attenuator on in the 20 m band. In this band this is something I rarely do with the K2. This discussion on AGC threshold has perhaps told me the reason why this is so. Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: You can *effectively* increase the AGC threshold by 10 dB very quickly - just turn on the attenuator. - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391 http://www.qslnet.de/member/la3za/K2/mod.html LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/An-AGC-story-tp5817486p5821194.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor
Yep. I did it in ARRL SS Phone with N1MM. You just have to set a repeat interval long enough for the CQ plus your desired listening time. N1MM doesn't know anything about the DVK, it just sends the Mx tap emulation command, so it has no idea when your CQ is finished. I think this is true for most loggers. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org On 12/9/2010 9:33 AM, K5WA wrote: If this is in a contest, could you use the contesting software to trigger the repeated CQs? From your comment, this would bypass the REPEAT DVR function and allow the VFO B display, right? I have not tried it but that is how I would attempt it if I was setting up for a contest. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor
Fred, In CQPWIN, I did work out a way to measure the precise length of each message so you can have accurate repeat intervals for each message, even if they are of differing lengths. If any logging software types are curious, I'll be happy to share the approach taken. 73,andy, ae6y - Original Message - From: Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor Yep. I did it in ARRL SS Phone with N1MM. You just have to set a repeat interval long enough for the CQ plus your desired listening time. N1MM doesn't know anything about the DVK, it just sends the Mx tap emulation command, so it has no idea when your CQ is finished. I think this is true for most loggers. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org On 12/9/2010 9:33 AM, K5WA wrote: If this is in a contest, could you use the contesting software to trigger the repeated CQs? From your comment, this would bypass the REPEAT DVR function and allow the VFO B display, right? I have not tried it but that is how I would attempt it if I was setting up for a contest. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] What Better Advertisement?
Hi all, Just received my 5V7TT QSL card in the mail. It's one of those nice folded ones. A pic of what rig adorns the rear cover? A K3, of course! You just can't buy advertising like this... It simply must be earned. As always, take care es... Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] What Better Advertisement?
A K3 + P3. Nice card, got mine a couple of days ago. Rob NV5E Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 20:58:30 -0500 From: wa...@arrl.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] What Better Advertisement? Hi all, Just received my 5V7TT QSL card in the mail. It's one of those nice folded ones. A pic of what rig adorns the rear cover? A K3, of course! You just can't buy advertising like this... It simply must be earned. As always, take care es... Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Apple MacBook Pro Audio for PSK-31 with K2?
Hello, The MacBook Pro has a single 1/8 audio connection for both mic in and external-speaker output. Unfortunately, that disables the internal speakers, preventing their use for monitoring. Also, the single special plug needs a homebrew Y-cable to get the input and output on separate connectors. Before I over-complicate what should be a simple interface to the K2, does anyone have a success story with the MacBook Pro? Cheers, Alan Alan D. Wilcox, W3DVX 570-321-1516 http://WilcoxEngineering.com https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/28062 Williamsport, PA 17701 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] L-C Meter IIB
I just finished building an L-C meter, offered by Almost All Digital Electronics (aade.com). I've been playing with it all evening, and it's a very cool piece of gear that could be a good thing to have if you're building an Elecraft transceiver or ATU, or really any piece of ham gear. Its measurement accuracy is excellent, it's a fun and easy build, and Neil offers quick and helpful support. FWIW 73, Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Digital voice recorderfor
Hello Gentleman, If possible, it is always convenient to have the ability to record longer message say 20-30 secconds in one of the M1 - M4. Perhaps, Elecraft may wish to search for newer components to upgrade the existing KDVR3. Icom and Yaesu radio or even the MFJ Voice Keyer can record a much longer message in at least one of the memories. Of course, I have no knowledge of the cost of production for a new KDVR3 with the ability to record longer messages. If the cost increase in only marginal, this feasibility in message length will be an operation convenience to operator and hence better marketability of KDVR3. In the firmware level, I don't know whether it is possible for the operator to re-allocate the recording time among the M1-M4 and AF recording. For example, M1-max 30 sec, M2-max 20 sec, M3 to M4 - max 10 sec. The remaining recording time will be left for AF recording which will then be shorten to less than the current 90 seconds. The latest version of KDVR3 only gives 10 sec per M1-M4 which is too short. It is not quite enough to record a proper standard CQ calling such as 'cq cq cq vr2xmc vr2xmc vr2xmc (phonetics) calling and standing by' cheers, Johnny VR2XMC - 郵件原件 寄件人﹕ Andrew Faber andrewfa...@ymail.com 收件人﹕ k6...@foothill.net; Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期﹕ 2010/12/10 (五) 9:23:28 AM 主題： Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor Fred, In CQPWIN, I did work out a way to measure the precise length of each message so you can have accurate repeat intervals for each message, even if they are of differing lengths. If any logging software types are curious, I'll be happy to share the approach taken. 73,andy, ae6y - Original Message - From: Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Re: Digital voice recorderfor Yep. I did it in ARRL SS Phone with N1MM. You just have to set a repeat interval long enough for the CQ plus your desired listening time. N1MM doesn't know anything about the DVK, it just sends the Mx tap emulation command, so it has no idea when your CQ is finished. I think this is true for most loggers. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org On 12/9/2010 9:33 AM, K5WA wrote: If this is in a contest, could you use the contesting software to trigger the repeated CQs? From your comment, this would bypass the REPEAT DVR function and allow the VFO B display, right? I have not tried it but that is how I would attempt it if I was setting up for a contest. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
OK, but that still doesn't address decay or slope ... parameters I might want to quickly change dependent upon the amount and type of band noise (such as when changing to the low bands or when thunderstorms are active) or the number (not only the level) of signals (pileup or QRM). I still say a few re-callable combinations of AGC settings would make sense, even if they had to be initially configured only through the CONFIG menu. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/9/2010 1:17 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Dave, You can *effectively* increase the AGC threshold by 10 dB very quickly - just turn on the attenuator. Actually, that is more effective than reducing the RF Gain because it happens at the receiver input rather than at the IF. Yes, you can turn the attenuator of the K3 on whether or not the Preamp is on. And, if you have the S-meter set for abs (absolute) mode, it will not change with the attenuator or preamp. If you have signals high enough to produce greater than an S-3 level, you will still hear them when you turn the attenuator on, and the dynamic range of the K3 is retained. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/9/2010 3:02 PM, David Gilbert wrote: That is why it would be highly desirable to be able to quickly change AGC settings on the fly, especially when you consider the additional effect that different band noise has on the optimum AGC profile. I can understand Elecraft's reluctance to let users mess with the DSP code via macros, but I don't understand why it should not be possible to use macros to select from a few different AGC settings that have been preset using the CONFIG menu. It doesn't seem rational to me to build all that versatility into the AGC system so that it can be tailored to deal with all sorts of operating conditions ... different levels and types of band noise, different degrees of QRM, different levels of signal strengths, etc ... and then force you to choose only one setting for everything, especially during a contest. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
check out K3_EZ http://home.roadrunner.com/~n2bc/SW.htm then connect and check out the AGC Setup page GB 73 K5OAI Sam Morgan On 12/9/2010 8:49 PM, David Gilbert wrote: OK, but that still doesn't address decay or slope ... parameters I might want to quickly change dependent upon the amount and type of band noise (such as when changing to the low bands or when thunderstorms are active) or the number (not only the level) of signals (pileup or QRM). I still say a few re-callable combinations of AGC settings would make sense, even if they had to be initially configured only through the CONFIG menu. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Apple MacBook Pro Audio for PSK-31 with K2?
Alan, What flavor of MBP do you have that has only a single audio connection? Rick K6LE On 12/9/2010, at 6:27 , Alan D. Wilcox wrote: Hello, The MacBook Pro has a single 1/8 audio connection for both mic in and external-speaker output. Unfortunately, that disables the internal speakers, preventing their use for monitoring. Also, the single special plug needs a homebrew Y-cable to get the input and output on separate connectors. Before I over-complicate what should be a simple interface to the K2, does anyone have a success story with the MacBook Pro? Cheers, Alan Alan D. Wilcox, W3DVX 570-321-1516 http://WilcoxEngineering.com https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/28062 Williamsport, PA 17701 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
Nice program, but it doesn't run with LP-Bridge if I want to have more than one application (N1MM, CW Skimmer, K3_EZ, etc) interfacing with my K3. It is fine for simplifying the changing of AGC settings, but not on the fly during a contest. Dave AB7E On 12/9/2010 8:18 PM, Sam Morgan wrote: check out K3_EZ http://home.roadrunner.com/~n2bc/SW.htm then connect and check out the AGC Setup page GB 73 K5OAI Sam Morgan On 12/9/2010 8:49 PM, David Gilbert wrote: OK, but that still doesn't address decay or slope ... parameters I might want to quickly change dependent upon the amount and type of band noise (such as when changing to the low bands or when thunderstorms are active) or the number (not only the level) of signals (pileup or QRM). I still say a few re-callable combinations of AGC settings would make sense, even if they had to be initially configured only through the CONFIG menu. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
I'm not arguing this on behalf of the gimme, gimme negative post crowd. There will always be some of those around. But as I stated earlier, this thread has not been dominated by those voices. When I was testing new GUI's and task setups we always brought in a random sample of future users to be, and carefully observed them attempting the revised clerical tasks with the new GUI interface. We did the same for certain kinds of documentation. I remember one woman tester who became extremely angry. She was so angry she was shaking and had tears in her eyes. When asked she pointed to a couple of items in the instructions and on the screen. She said, I work hard and I do my job, and this thing is making me feel stupid. I can't figure it out. A little bit of conversation and it became clear how the doc and the screen could confuse a user. Both screen and doc were revised based on her input. She's good people. Years later she was a well-respected, industrious third-line manager. THAT'S who we're writing doc for. Calling everyone lazy who reads and does not understand is really harsh. While at SAS, to be fair, there were calls from some customers that I would just as soon put out a hit contract on. But the bottom line was that SAS' pro-customer take on customer support was a vital element in growing SAS into a 3 billion dollar a year international company. And yes, in some cases they DID send a CE out to do it for them, but these were very, very expensive turnkey systems that HAD to perform. This technical stuff we do is just plain hard to learn, and when some improvement to doc CAN be made, it SHOULD be made. It's good for the business. It's good for the business when they figure it out faster and better with our stuff and doc than with their stuff and doc. 73, Guy. On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: While it IS true that I have 52 years of slogging and suffering through electronic misconceptions and outright falsehoods enroute to what pitifully little I know, and can definitely say that I came by a lot (most?) of what I know the hard way, we have schools because we value the idea that it's BETTER that something, which caused ME half-a-life's grief to discern, can be taught to a fifth grader out of the box. While schools (and books, etc.) can certainly teach *facts*, I know of no book or school in which students set quietly in rank and file and learn skills without practice. Even in mathematics and science courses the teaching method requires *practice to develop skills - experimentation if you would call it that. No student worth a plugged nickel pays tuition to University and expects to graduate the next day with the accumulated knowledge and skills of the entire faculty without attending a day of classes or spending hundreds of hours in the laboratory. Yet it is this sense of entitlement I see in the I want a manual that does ... refrain. To wish that advantage for our fellow hams is, in a word, civilization. It's quite the opposite of civilization ... it's anarchy or despotism. It is the expectation that someone else will do for the entitled individual what he is too lazy (the nicest description I can think of) to do for himself. To fuzzily extend your documentation thinking, the only worthy proper distribution format of a Microham box would be as a box of parts, to insure that the purchaser suffered enough to be an acceptable recipient of the Microham mojo. Not quite ... to extend your documentation thinking you would have me deliver each microHAM interface personally, connect it to the purchaser's radio and custom configure the hardware/software to work *exactly* as the purchaser expects, whether the interface or transceiver is designed to operate that way or not. Not only that, you would expect that I would appear instantly (day, night or holiday) whenever a user wanted to add or modify an application. I other words, I would be responsible for all outcomes rather than the user (purchaser) ... or in economic terms, the purchaser is entitled to infinite value for comparatively little consideration and someone else should bear the cost. When taken to its logical end, the view of documentation expressed here is that the outcome (understanding) is never the responsibility of the user. If the user can not understand the documentation or can not make the hardware perform the way he wants (even if that is beyond the design parameters of the hardware), the fault is entirely due to deficiencies in the documentation. This is like blaming the school because Johnny can't read even if Johnny did not attend a single class. People can debate forever what constitutes good or bad, sufficient or insufficient documentation. However, it is not possible for any manual (or documentation writer) to anticipate every possible use scenario and provide specific how to details for each scenario. 73, ...
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
Sorry, Joe, but that entitlement comment is just garbage. This thread originated with a comment from somebody that the K3 manual does such a poor job of being a manual (even Wayne refers to it as a reference, not a manual) that it most likely costs Elecraft sales ... and that by definition refers to people who don't have the K3 sitting in front of them. The manual also is organized so poorly (and it is clumsy enough to find stuff in it that you don't often use) that people need to resort to keyword searches through the pdf version to find their answer. That certainly doesn't help dispel the perception out there that the K3 is an overly complex rig to learn. The complaints about the K3 manual aren't coming from people who are too lazy to search a library for the book they need. It's coming from people who are tired of finding the books scattered all over the floor. Dave AB7E On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVli...@subich.com wrote: While schools (and books, etc.) can certainly teach *facts*, I know of no book or school in which students set quietly in rank and file and learn skills without practice. Even in mathematics and science courses the teaching method requires *practice to develop skills - experimentation if you would call it that. No student worth a plugged nickel pays tuition to University and expects to graduate the next day with the accumulated knowledge and skills of the entire faculty without attending a day of classes or spending hundreds of hours in the laboratory. Yet it is this sense of entitlement I see in the I want a manual that does ... refrain. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Parting shot
The difference of opinion in this thread is mostly about different perceptions of the K3 manual. Is it a compact, easy to access, reference? Or, is it a training course? Or, something in between or both? People are different and have different needs in a manual. While some people may be looking for a different format K3 manual, the current structure is exactly what I want. What's right or wrong about the K3 manual is largely personal preference. Some people want a training manual on radio usability. Others know how radios work and simply need to know the specific K3 details. No matter how long or how heated this thread becomes, there is no single answer as to what the K3 manual should be for everyone. Ed - W0YK Dave, AB7E, wrote: Sorry, Joe, but that entitlement comment is just garbage. This thread originated with a comment from somebody that the K3 manual does such a poor job of being a manual (even Wayne refers to it as a reference, not a manual) that it most likely costs Elecraft sales ... and that by definition refers to people who don't have the K3 sitting in front of them. The manual also is organized so poorly (and it is clumsy enough to find stuff in it that you don't often use) that people need to resort to keyword searches through the pdf version to find their answer. That certainly doesn't help dispel the perception out there that the K3 is an overly complex rig to learn. The complaints about the K3 manual aren't coming from people who are too lazy to search a library for the book they need. It's coming from people who are tired of finding the books scattered all over the floor. Dave AB7E On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVli...@subich.com wrote: While schools (and books, etc.) can certainly teach *facts*, I know of no book or school in which students set quietly in rank and file and learn skills without practice. Even in mathematics and science courses the teaching method requires *practice to develop skills - experimentation if you would call it that. No student worth a plugged nickel pays tuition to University and expects to graduate the next day with the accumulated knowledge and skills of the entire faculty without attending a day of classes or spending hundreds of hours in the laboratory. Yet it is this sense of entitlement I see in the I want a manual that does ... refrain. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Apple MacBook Pro Audio for PSK-31 with K2?
Alan I know it further complicates things, but what about a iMic USB outboard soundcard? 73 Stephen G4SJP On 10/12/2010 02:27, Alan D. Wilcox a...@wilcoxengineering.com wrote: Hello, The MacBook Pro has a single 1/8 audio connection for both mic in and external-speaker output. Unfortunately, that disables the internal speakers, preventing their use for monitoring. Also, the single special plug needs a homebrew Y-cable to get the input and output on separate connectors. Before I over-complicate what should be a simple interface to the K2, does anyone have a success story with the MacBook Pro? Cheers, Alan Alan D. Wilcox, W3DVX 570-321-1516 http://WilcoxEngineering.com https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/28062 Williamsport, PA 17701 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] An AGC story
David Gilbert wrote: OK, but that still doesn't address decay or slope ... parameters I might want to quickly change dependent upon the amount and type of band noise (such as when changing to the low bands or when thunderstorms are active) or the number (not only the level) of signals (pileup or QRM). I still say a few re-callable combinations of AGC settings would make sense, even if they had to be initially configured only through the CONFIG menu. It might be more helpful to store the AGC threshold and slope per-band. The underlying problem is that many people will see a 30-40dB variation in antenna noise levels between 30MHz and 1.8MHz, and the K3 has only limited facilities to pre-set its front end gain (the one-step 10dB attenuator, the +12dB preamp and the manual IF gain control). After that, it's all down to the AGC. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
