Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Chester Alderman]

I guess you are way ahead of me Cookie because nothing you said in response
to my statement, is related.

 

73,

Tom - W4BQF - USS Forrestal - USS Saratoga - USS Enterprise - etc.

 

 

 

From: WILLIS COOKE [mailto:wrco...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:20 PM
To: Chester Alderman; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

 

Most Engineers including me like lots of meters and we have the voltage and
current instantaneous meters on our power supplies.  The metering on the K3
is redundant with the meters on the power supply.  A 50% duty cycle on
transmit is way too much current.  Holding your key down 50% of the time
will not make you very popular and will not yield a good fist.  About 30 to
35 % duty is a pretty good fist but you need to listen almost half the time
if you are an excellent CW operator sending CQ and not getting any pile ups,
so your duty cycle will vary from the hunt and pounce operator with less
than 5% to the contest operator who holds a frequency and has a good answer
rate which will have a duty cycle of maybe 15%.  A good contest operator
will need several rotors and a 1500 watt (or more) amp which are hardly
candidates for battery power.  So if you assume no rotary antenna and low
power, you are good for a 48 hour contest with a good deep cycle battery
starting at full charge.  Do you have a good battery with full charge?  That
is entirely a different matter!

 

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman

K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

 

  _  

From: Chester Alderman mailto:alderm...@windstream.net> >
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net   
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:47 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid


Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most simple
method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by pressing the
K3's METER button

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
 ] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
WB6UUT
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net  
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
receive.

I'd assume 50% duty cycle.  You can skip a lot of math by either ignoring
the receive power draw (if it's low enough) and dividing by two, or adding
them together and dividing by two (averaging them together).

Multiply that number by the number of hours you need to be able to operate
-- and that's your target capacity in amp-hours.

That should over estimate the battery, so if that size wasn't economical,
I'd buy one slightly smaller.

That should insure that the battery does the job for years, even when it's
starting to fail.  It should also make sure you can keep operating if the
emergency was longer than initially planned.

Yes, there are a lot of factors, like operating mode that this appears to
ignore.  I'm simply assuming things like full power or nothing when the
operator might be running SSB or PSK-31 at 20 watts.

I'm also ignoring portability, which I would not do if I was operating for
fun.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 1:15 PM, Steve Baum wrote:
> There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery 
> requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to 
> accurately predict how long a given battery will last?

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Re: [Elecraft] Help - Elecraft Shutting Down

[Gary Smith]

And I have the same power supply and have done exactly the same with 
my foot, with the exact same results. I now have the knob locked in 
position by a wedge...

Gary
KA1J

> Ron,
> 
> If your power supply happens to have a knob to set current-limiting, check
> it to be sure that it hasn't accidentally been lowered. I have an Astron
> VS-35M sitting beneath the operating desk, and have managed to
> unintentionally  'adjust' (downward) the current-limiting with my knee
> more times than I would like to admit. It caused exactly the issue that
> you describe.
> 
> 73, Dale
> WA8SRA
> 
> > Elecraft K3 âEUR" The radio just started turning off and shutting down
> > during
> > this weekends contest.  No changes have been made to the station in over 6
> > months so nothing was done that may be suspect.  Radio has both 10 and 100
> > W
> > output, and typically run 40 watts out into an Alpha 8410 for drive.
> > Troubleshooting,  I throttled the output back to 10 watts, I can operate
> > no
> > problem and increased it in 5 watt increments. It start shutting the radio
> > down at around 25 watts.  Is there something I should try or does it need
> > a
> > trip back into the factory??
> >
> > Tx
> >
> > Ron
> > N6SC
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Help-Elecraft-Shutting-Down-tp7585057.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > __
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> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 / NaP3 Display Images

[Kenneth A Christiansen]

Hi Jim

You should check your AUDIO CARD
Right click on the speaker icon
Left click Recording devices
Left click on the Device you are using to for the NNaP3
Left click PROPERTIES
Left click Advanced
Choose 2 tone 16 bit at the highest rate of your SOUND CARD Mine is 48000
Check Allow applications to take control of the device
Check Give exclusive mode applications priority

Do the DSP Calibrate test with a strong signal.

I hope that fixes it for you as it sure works well for me.

73

Ken W0CZ w0cz at i29 dot net

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 5, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Jim Bennett  wrote:
> 
> Over the course of the past several weeks I've been messing around getting my 
> KX3 to work with the free panadapter display program NaP3. I enjoy using the 
> P3 with my K3 and wanted something similar for the KX3. NaP3 seems to fit 
> that wish pretty well, and it's free!
> 
> However, there is one issue that I am not able to resolve, and I'm not the 
> only one seeing it. At least two other KX3 owners that I know about have 
> experienced this issue and I'm wondering if there is a fix, or is it just the 
> way it is. Also, what causes it - KX3 design or something out of whack in 
> NaP3? Here's what the issue is:
> 
> When I look at the Panadapter view of a band segment, there are almost always 
> TWO places where a signal is seen. One is usually a tad stronger (peaking 
> higher) than the other. As I turn the dial on the KX3, they move in opposite 
> directions. Only ONE is the "real" signal - the other is a mirror. It isn't a 
> huge problem, but does cause me to tune to dead space if I've selected the 
> wrong one. :-(
> 
> Is there a way to eliminate this mirror image situation? 
> 
> Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[WILLIS COOKE]

Most Engineers including me like lots of meters and we have the voltage and 
current instantaneous meters on our power supplies.  The metering on the K3 is 
redundant with the meters on the power supply.  A 50% duty cycle on transmit is 
way too much current.  Holding your key down 50% of the time will not make you 
very popular and will not yield a good fist.  About 30 to 35 % duty is a pretty 
good fist but you need to listen almost half the time if you are an excellent 
CW operator sending CQ and not getting any pile ups, so your duty cycle will 
vary from the hunt and pounce operator with less than 5% to the contest 
operator who holds a frequency and has a good answer rate which will have a 
duty cycle of maybe 15%.  A good contest operator will need several rotors and 
a 1500 watt (or more) amp which are hardly candidates for battery power.  So if 
you assume no rotary antenna and low power, you are good for a 48 hour contest 
with a good deep cycle
 battery starting at full charge.  Do you have a good battery with full charge? 
 That is entirely a different matter!
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Chester Alderman 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:47 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] FW:  [K3] K3 Off Grid
 

Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most simple
method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by pressing the
K3's METER button

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
WB6UUT
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
receive.

I'd assume 50% duty cycle.  You can skip a lot of math by either ignoring
the receive power draw (if it's low enough) and dividing by two, or adding
them together and dividing by two (averaging them together).

Multiply that number by the number of hours you need to be able to operate
-- and that's your target capacity in amp-hours.

That should over estimate the battery, so if that size wasn't economical,
I'd buy one slightly smaller.

That should insure that the battery does the job for years, even when it's
starting to fail.  It should also make sure you can keep operating if the
emergency was longer than initially planned.

Yes, there are a lot of factors, like operating mode that this appears to
ignore.  I'm simply assuming things like full power or nothing when the
operator might be running SSB or PSK-31 at 20 watts.

I'm also ignoring portability, which I would not do if I was operating for
fun.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 1:15 PM, Steve Baum wrote:
> There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery 
> requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to 
> accurately predict how long a given battery will last?

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Re: [Elecraft] Help - Elecraft Shutting Down

[Bill W2BLC]

Early on I had problems with my K3 and sudden death. A little history: 
When I bought the K3, I modernized the radio desk with Anderson Power 
Poles. Everything was done with Power Poles. A week or so after I got my 
K3, it quit in the middle of a QSO. I pushed the POWER switch and it 
came right back to life. It continued to work for a day or so, then I 
had a similar incident with my 2-meter rig. I came into the shack and it 
was off. I am not a believer in coincidences, so I pulled the desk from 
the wall. While the desk was moving from the wall, the K3 died again. I 
had my answer - something physical, such as wire movement was 
interrupting the power to my equipment. I spent an afternoon replacing 
the Power Poles with soldered/crimped spade lugs and a proper DC power 
panel with threaded posts and nuts etc.


I know how to put the Power Poles on, even have the proper crimping 
tool. However, nothing works as well as old fashioned methods. Sure, it 
isn't quick - but, I rarely have a need to disconnect anything on my 
main radio desk. I still have a few Power Poles in the system - that 
came factory produced (not my handy-work) - and they do give me trouble 
with the instant on back-up DC system. This weekend they will also get 
replaced - then I will toss the rest of that stuff in the trash. I know 
there are some wanting to argue the point - so be it - use them in your 
station. I choose not to.


Bill W2BLC K-Line
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Re: [Elecraft] Help - Elecraft Shutting Down

[Martin Rath]

Hi Don,

thanks for your always helpfull advise. let me please review the powerpoles
tonight and I will try to follow-up on this topic.

best 73's Martin 9V1RM / F8UKP


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Martin,
>
> One thing to check is the blades in the Anderson PowerPole connector at
> the end of the cable.
> Peer into the end of the cable - if you see the ends of two metal blades
> in either side of the connector, the contact blade has not been fully
> seated behind the securing spring - give it a hard push with a screwdriver.
>
> The other thing to check is the tightness of the terminals on the power
> supply.
>
> The burned connector inside the K3 will usually only affect power to the
> KPA3, and it will usually produce an ERR 12V condition rather than a
> shutdown.  That problem has been cured some long time ago when the pins
> were changed to gold plated type - if you do not have an early K3, that
> condition is not likely.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 3/5/2014 8:17 PM, Martin Rath wrote:
>
>> Hi Ron,
>>
>> I'm glad I found your email as my K3 (#5426) has been experiencing the
>> same
>> issues for a couple of days. I did not dismantle it for now to see if it's
>> related to the burned connector issue as I would like to try it with
>> another power supply first (and i need to borrow one first from another
>> ham).
>>
>> This K3 was used extensively on Reunion Island during 10 days lately as
>> part of the TO7CC DX Expedition, maybe this has made the issue to appear
>> now. First I thought that it was related to the power supply but then it
>> happened at least once when the K3 was on RX. I upgraded the MCU and
>> DSP1/DSP2 to the latest softwares but that did not resolve the issue.
>>
>> Let me know if you manage to track your issue down !
>>
>> Best 73's Martin 9V1RM
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Help - Elecraft Shutting Down

[Don Wilhelm]

Martin,

One thing to check is the blades in the Anderson PowerPole connector at 
the end of the cable.
Peer into the end of the cable - if you see the ends of two metal blades 
in either side of the connector, the contact blade has not been fully 
seated behind the securing spring - give it a hard push with a screwdriver.


The other thing to check is the tightness of the terminals on the power 
supply.


The burned connector inside the K3 will usually only affect power to the 
KPA3, and it will usually produce an ERR 12V condition rather than a 
shutdown.  That problem has been cured some long time ago when the pins 
were changed to gold plated type - if you do not have an early K3, that 
condition is not likely.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 8:17 PM, Martin Rath wrote:

Hi Ron,

I'm glad I found your email as my K3 (#5426) has been experiencing the same
issues for a couple of days. I did not dismantle it for now to see if it's
related to the burned connector issue as I would like to try it with
another power supply first (and i need to borrow one first from another
ham).

This K3 was used extensively on Reunion Island during 10 days lately as
part of the TO7CC DX Expedition, maybe this has made the issue to appear
now. First I thought that it was related to the power supply but then it
happened at least once when the K3 was on RX. I upgraded the MCU and
DSP1/DSP2 to the latest softwares but that did not resolve the issue.

Let me know if you manage to track your issue down !

Best 73's Martin 9V1RM




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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - we're way exceeding the single topic posting limit on this thread. Lets 
close it at this time.


73,

Eric
elecraft.com


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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Fred Jensen]

On 3/5/2014 4:02 PM, Gerald Manthey wrote:


I have seen people say solar and are wind turbine are not worth it. Well
when you have nothing it is. Also knowing that my system is rated for 25
years, I can afford to put some away for new system and new technology. And
I must say it is great not having utility bills.


It's all economics and accounting.  Your cost of energy from those 
sources is replacement cost ["stuff" and labor] plus whatever debt cost 
you are currently carrying.  You can choose to either include or exclude 
your own labor costs


But, I have enjoyed following this thread and learning how others have and
would do it.


I have too!!  Living a life totally "off-the-grid" is very hard, and I 
admire you.  Running just your radio off-the-grid is a whole lot easier. 
 I can "sort of" do that, LP but not necessarily QRP.  We still pay our 
electricity, telephone, propane, grocery, gasoline, medical, and DirecTV 
bills.  At our ages, that's not going to change.  Our I'net is free, I 
host the wireless provider for our neighborhood on my tower. :-)




And home made steam engine that runs a 48 volt alternator.


OK, surely you have photos and an explanation!! :-)))  I'd really like 
to see it.  What turns the water to steam?  Frequency of the alternator? 
 Why 48VAC?


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org


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Re: [Elecraft] Help - Elecraft Shutting Down

[Martin Rath]

Hi Ron,

I'm glad I found your email as my K3 (#5426) has been experiencing the same
issues for a couple of days. I did not dismantle it for now to see if it's
related to the burned connector issue as I would like to try it with
another power supply first (and i need to borrow one first from another
ham).

This K3 was used extensively on Reunion Island during 10 days lately as
part of the TO7CC DX Expedition, maybe this has made the issue to appear
now. First I thought that it was related to the power supply but then it
happened at least once when the K3 was on RX. I upgraded the MCU and
DSP1/DSP2 to the latest softwares but that did not resolve the issue.

Let me know if you manage to track your issue down !

Best 73's Martin 9V1RM


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:43 AM, N6SC  wrote:

> Elecraft K3 – The radio just started turning off and shutting down during
> this weekends contest.  No changes have been made to the station in over 6
> months so nothing was done that may be suspect.  Radio has both 10 and 100
> W
> output, and typically run 40 watts out into an Alpha 8410 for drive.
> Troubleshooting,  I throttled the output back to 10 watts, I can operate no
> problem and increased it in 5 watt increments. It start shutting the radio
> down at around 25 watts.  Is there something I should try or does it need a
> trip back into the factory??
>
> Tx
>
> Ron
> N6SC
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Help-Elecraft-Shutting-Down-tp7585057.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - WinkeyUSB Keying Issue

[Ted Bryant]

The WinKey is in standalone mode?  How is it powered?  If it's self-powered,
have you checked the battery?  Does it do this on BOTH keying outputs?

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jed Petrovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 7:09 PM
To: Elecraft Email List
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - WinkeyUSB Keying Issue

Hello all:

For the past several months, there are times when my Winkey won't key my K3.
At first, it was after I'd change from SSB to CW. The WK sidetone is still
audible, but the rig won't key. Lately, I've had it quit in the middle of a
QSO as I'm sending. This morning, it happened when I tried to reply about
midway through the QSO. It seems to be happening with more frequency.

On Monday night, I did perform a reset/restore of the K3 configuration.

I've been able to get things going again by disconnecting the RCA end (K3 to
WK cable) from the back of the WK and shorting out the tip/ground. I can
then plug it back into the WK and continue. Also, it happens even with only
5 watts output.

I realize this is a odd issue, but hope someone may have had a similar
experience or can offer some tips for diagnosing the problem.

73,

Jed
AD7KG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - WinkeyUSB Keying Issue

[Don Wilhelm]

Jed,

If shorting the RCA plug that goes into the WinKeyer 'fixes' the 
problem, I would suggest that the problem is in the WinKeyer.  The 
optoisolator (U1 or U3) that 'closes' the key contact may have enough 
resistance to keep the K3 from keying reliably.  It would be informative 
to hang a DC coupled 'scope probe across that WK output to see if the 
voltage is really going to zero during keydown periods.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 7:09 PM, Jed Petrovich wrote:

Hello all:

For the past several months, there are times when my Winkey won't key my
K3. At first, it was after I'd change from SSB to CW. The WK sidetone is
still audible, but the rig won't key. Lately, I've had it quit in the
middle of a QSO as I'm sending. This morning, it happened when I tried to
reply about midway through the QSO. It seems to be happening with more
frequency.

On Monday night, I did perform a reset/restore of the K3 configuration.

I've been able to get things going again by disconnecting the RCA end (K3
to WK cable) from the back of the WK and shorting out the tip/ground. I can
then plug it back into the WK and continue. Also, it happens even with only
5 watts output.

I realize this is a odd issue, but hope someone may have had a similar
experience or can offer some tips for diagnosing the problem.




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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Don Wilhelm]

Lynn,

The K3 or KX3 measures the total current draw with quite reasonable 
accuracy.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 7:17 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

We were talking sizing a battery for emergency ops.

I'd expect the internal meter to read current into the finals, which 
probably dates me pretty thoroughly to a time when "finals" was nearly 
always preceded by the word "tube."


I can't check the K3 manual to see what it actually measures because I 
don't have one.  I have a KX3, and a huge 7a power supply to run it.


-- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 2:47 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most 
simple
method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by 
pressing the

K3's METER button

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
WB6UUT
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
receive.

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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

We were talking sizing a battery for emergency ops.

I'd expect the internal meter to read current into the finals, which 
probably dates me pretty thoroughly to a time when "finals" was nearly 
always preceded by the word "tube."


I can't check the K3 manual to see what it actually measures because I 
don't have one.  I have a KX3, and a huge 7a power supply to run it.


-- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 2:47 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:

Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most simple
method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by pressing the
K3's METER button

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
WB6UUT
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
receive.

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[Elecraft] K3 - WinkeyUSB Keying Issue

[Jed Petrovich]

Hello all:

For the past several months, there are times when my Winkey won't key my
K3. At first, it was after I'd change from SSB to CW. The WK sidetone is
still audible, but the rig won't key. Lately, I've had it quit in the
middle of a QSO as I'm sending. This morning, it happened when I tried to
reply about midway through the QSO. It seems to be happening with more
frequency.

On Monday night, I did perform a reset/restore of the K3 configuration.

I've been able to get things going again by disconnecting the RCA end (K3
to WK cable) from the back of the WK and shorting out the tip/ground. I can
then plug it back into the WK and continue. Also, it happens even with only
5 watts output.

I realize this is a odd issue, but hope someone may have had a similar
experience or can offer some tips for diagnosing the problem.

73,

Jed
AD7KG
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Re: [Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Gerald Manthey]

That was suggested Chester.
It works too. You can kick around numbers and theory all day. Real world is
the best way and you have to remember, temp plays a major part too.
I have lived off grid for two years. My experience has been through trial
and error.
Mind you I don't run just ham equipment, I run a whole house.

Type of battery, method of charge , temp and age of battery bank all play
into how long you can run before you reach 50 percent battery power rating.

He was given many good examples of what would work and how to charge them.
And he also made the choice to get a good quiet generator so that not only
ham stuff and be run but also needed things in a disaster or emergency.

I have seen people say solar and are wind turbine are not worth it. Well
when you have nothing it is. Also knowing that my system is rated for 25
years, I can afford to put some away for new system and new technology. And
I must say it is great not having utility bills.

But, I have enjoyed following this thread and learning how others have and
would do it.

Oh and if any one is curious
1 - 12 volt system for led lights and ham stuff.
600 amp hours.
Solar and wind turbine to charge.

1 - 48 volt system to run all my A/C needs. 800 amp hours. Solar / propane
generator with self start and stop.  And home made steam engine that runs a
48 volt alternator .

Fun stuff.
73's
Gerald - KC6CNN
 On Mar 5, 2014 4:47 PM, "Chester Alderman" 
wrote:

> Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most simple
> method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by pressing the
> K3's METER button
>
> 73,
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
> WB6UUT
> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid
>
> Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.
>
> I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
> receive.
>
> I'd assume 50% duty cycle.  You can skip a lot of math by either ignoring
> the receive power draw (if it's low enough) and dividing by two, or adding
> them together and dividing by two (averaging them together).
>
> Multiply that number by the number of hours you need to be able to operate
> -- and that's your target capacity in amp-hours.
>
> That should over estimate the battery, so if that size wasn't economical,
> I'd buy one slightly smaller.
>
> That should insure that the battery does the job for years, even when it's
> starting to fail.  It should also make sure you can keep operating if the
> emergency was longer than initially planned.
>
> Yes, there are a lot of factors, like operating mode that this appears to
> ignore.  I'm simply assuming things like full power or nothing when the
> operator might be running SSB or PSK-31 at 20 watts.
>
> I'm also ignoring portability, which I would not do if I was operating for
> fun.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 3/5/2014 1:15 PM, Steve Baum wrote:
> > There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery
> > requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to
> > accurately predict how long a given battery will last?
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 / NaP3 Display Images

[Tony Estep]

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> ..Tune to an S-9 or greater signal and wait a bit to allow it to work  The
> stronger the signal, the faster it will be corrected.  An XG3...

=
What Don said. I keep my XG3 connected to the RX Ant input. When my NaP3
loses its mind, I flip to the RX ant, put a loud signal in, and wait. If
the signal is S9+30 or so, it fixes the image problem instantly. With an
actual signal coming in over the air, it is not so reliable. However, the
image correction algorithm in NaP3 works perfectly if used correctly with a
strong injected signal.

Tony KT0NY
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[Elecraft] FW: [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Chester Alderman]

Gosh Engineers...why not just suggest to Paul that he use the most simple
method of finding out the voltage and current the K3 draws by pressing the
K3's METER button

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor,
WB6UUT
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:23 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for
receive.

I'd assume 50% duty cycle.  You can skip a lot of math by either ignoring
the receive power draw (if it's low enough) and dividing by two, or adding
them together and dividing by two (averaging them together).

Multiply that number by the number of hours you need to be able to operate
-- and that's your target capacity in amp-hours.

That should over estimate the battery, so if that size wasn't economical,
I'd buy one slightly smaller.

That should insure that the battery does the job for years, even when it's
starting to fail.  It should also make sure you can keep operating if the
emergency was longer than initially planned.

Yes, there are a lot of factors, like operating mode that this appears to
ignore.  I'm simply assuming things like full power or nothing when the
operator might be running SSB or PSK-31 at 20 watts.

I'm also ignoring portability, which I would not do if I was operating for
fun.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 1:15 PM, Steve Baum wrote:
> There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery 
> requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to 
> accurately predict how long a given battery will last?

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Here is how I'd do it, your mileage may vary.

I'd measure the power draw at 100 watts key-down, and the power draw for 
receive.


I'd assume 50% duty cycle.  You can skip a lot of math by either 
ignoring the receive power draw (if it's low enough) and dividing by 
two, or adding them together and dividing by two (averaging them together).


Multiply that number by the number of hours you need to be able to 
operate -- and that's your target capacity in amp-hours.


That should over estimate the battery, so if that size wasn't 
economical, I'd buy one slightly smaller.


That should insure that the battery does the job for years, even when 
it's starting to fail.  It should also make sure you can keep operating 
if the emergency was longer than initially planned.


Yes, there are a lot of factors, like operating mode that this appears 
to ignore.  I'm simply assuming things like full power or nothing when 
the operator might be running SSB or PSK-31 at 20 watts.


I'm also ignoring portability, which I would not do if I was operating 
for fun.


73 -- Lynn

On 3/5/2014 1:15 PM, Steve Baum wrote:

There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery
requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to accurately
predict how long a given battery will last?


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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 / NaP3 Display Images

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

NaP3 has a mirror image rejection algorithm.  Tune to an S-9 or greater 
signal and wait a bit to allow it to work  The stronger the signal, the 
faster it will be corrected.  An XG3 set to -33 dBm will work quite nicely.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 4:35 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:

Over the course of the past several weeks I've been messing around getting my 
KX3 to work with the free panadapter display program NaP3. I enjoy using the P3 
with my K3 and wanted something similar for the KX3. NaP3 seems to fit that 
wish pretty well, and it's free!

However, there is one issue that I am not able to resolve, and I'm not the only 
one seeing it. At least two other KX3 owners that I know about have experienced 
this issue and I'm wondering if there is a fix, or is it just the way it is. 
Also, what causes it - KX3 design or something out of whack in NaP3? Here's 
what the issue is:

When I look at the Panadapter view of a band segment, there are almost always TWO places 
where a signal is seen. One is usually a tad stronger (peaking higher) than the other. As 
I turn the dial on the KX3, they move in opposite directions. Only ONE is the 
"real" signal - the other is a mirror. It isn't a huge problem, but does cause 
me to tune to dead space if I've selected the wrong one. :-(

Is there a way to eliminate this mirror image situation?




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Don Wilhelm]

Paul,

It looks like you are ignoring the fact that your power supply is less 
than 100% efficient.

Power into the supply does not equal power out of it.

The readings from your Astron current meter are more realistic for the 
DC Current requirement.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 3:16 PM, Paul Grigorieff wrote:

OK, here are some new readings, taken with a Kill-A-Watt power consumption
meter.  The readings in transmit mode were taken by keying down in CW for a
few seconds and waiting until the meter reading stabilized.

I have an Astron 70A power supply powering a Rigrunner that then supplies a
K3, a KAT500, and a PigKnob.  The P3 is plugged into the K3.  There is a
set of speakers, which draw .06A AC as well.

K3 in RCV mode   .92A AC, or 84W   6 DC  at  14v
K3 in XMIT, 15W out  2.7A AC, or 240W17A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 50W out  3.7A AC, or 342W24A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 100W out4.7A AC, or 438W31A DC"

How do these look to everyone?  I'd like to get them close to right so that
I can calculate my battery needs for emergency operation.

Something else I don't understand is the ammeter on the front of the
Astron.  When the K3 is turned on,  the Astron's meter jumps up about 1A
DC.  When the K3 is transmitting at 15W, the Astron's meter reads about 7A
DC.  At 50W transmitted power, it reads 11A DC. And at 100W out, it reads
15A DC.  Quite a difference from the measured and computed DC amps listed
above.  What is going on here?  Simply an innaccurate Astron meter?




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Re: [Elecraft] NaP3 MACROS

[Kenneth A Christiansen]

Hi to the group

I had a nice response to my question from Matt VK2RQ. We exchanged information 
for a couple of days and got NaP3 working the way I wanted. We think the 
problem was the edit memory would get messed up and not copy to the config file 
properly when the program was shut down. If we edit one command even if it is 
long and immediately close the EDIT MACROS then the N3P3 program the macro is 
saved properly to the config file. I was able to save this long macro 
KY :;KY now is the time ;KY for all good men ;KY to come to the aid ;KY of 
their country;
by using the above procedure and it works just fine. I have also saved a macro 
SWT16; to simulate pressing the XMIT button and a macro SWT11;SWT19; to send 
the contents of memory one.

I plan to use these macros in contests as similar macros in the KX3 Utility 
have worked well for me.

I found I had to go into the Windows 8.1 record devices for the iMic USB sound 
device and set it for 2 channel 16 bit 48000hz (DVD Quality) to get the program 
to work properly. 

Having NaP3 working is almost like getting a new fancy radio as it adds several 
great features to the KX3 such as the panadapter with mouse frequency control, 
a SUB RECEIVER that will play at the same time as the regular receiver, Data 
Text and an analog S meter that is quite pleasing.

I am looking forward to using NaP3 as it solves several things that I have 
wanted to do for years.

73 and I do recommend this program although I am sure there are other programs 
that do similar things.

KEN  W0CZ w0cz at i29 dot net
Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 2, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Kenneth A Christiansen  wrote:
> 
> Hi to the group
> 
> I set up my KX3, iMic, and a Windows 8.1 laptop this week end with the NaP3 
> panadaptor program. Everything works well and I am impressed with all the 
> features this program adds to the KX3. I do have one problem though. I want 
> to set up some MACROS to send messages on CW or RTTY using the KX3. I think I 
> had it working at one point this afternoon but I can't get it to work again. 
> Does anyone have any macros set up that will send a message via CW or RTTY to 
> the KX3 and be willing to share them with me.
> 
> Thanks guys. You have come through several times for me and I appreciate that.
> 
> 73
> 
> Ken W0CZ w0cz at i29 dot net
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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[Elecraft] KX3 / NaP3 Display Images

[Jim Bennett]

Over the course of the past several weeks I've been messing around getting my 
KX3 to work with the free panadapter display program NaP3. I enjoy using the P3 
with my K3 and wanted something similar for the KX3. NaP3 seems to fit that 
wish pretty well, and it's free!

However, there is one issue that I am not able to resolve, and I'm not the only 
one seeing it. At least two other KX3 owners that I know about have experienced 
this issue and I'm wondering if there is a fix, or is it just the way it is. 
Also, what causes it - KX3 design or something out of whack in NaP3? Here's 
what the issue is:

When I look at the Panadapter view of a band segment, there are almost always 
TWO places where a signal is seen. One is usually a tad stronger (peaking 
higher) than the other. As I turn the dial on the KX3, they move in opposite 
directions. Only ONE is the "real" signal - the other is a mirror. It isn't a 
huge problem, but does cause me to tune to dead space if I've selected the 
wrong one. :-(

Is there a way to eliminate this mirror image situation? 

Tnx, Jim / W6JHB
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[WILLIS COOKE]

The reference to ground comes from the knob and tube days and telegraph before 
that when a single wire was strung on poles and the return path was through the 
earth ground.  Needless to say, that caused a lot of problems which were cured 
by running a return wire, but the safety ground is still needed to compensate 
for the resistance of the return wire (neutral) and prevent shock..  Ideally 
there should be very little current through the ground path.  I believe the 
Brits use the term Ground for Neutral and Earth for the actual ground.  
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Dale Putnam 
To: Bill Turner ; "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery
 


Ground is not necessarily dirt. Ground is what ever medium allows current flow 
in the return circuit, be it rf.. ac.. dc.. or spikes. However.. each type of 
current flow.. REQUIRES not only a ground.. but a different ground as in 
different capabilities, skin or surface flow, multipoint flow,very high current 
flow are some examples.   A single ground, will not generally provide all that 
is needed. Yet,  generally, many grounds eventually wind up in dirt. 
Have a great day, 


--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy




> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:17:43 -0800
> From: dezrat1...@wildblue.net
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery
> 
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:          (may be snipped)
> 
> On 3/5/2014 11:42 AM, Dale Putnam wrote:
> > The rf needs a ground.. yes...
> 
> REPLY:
> 
> I disagree. RF does not need to flow through dirt. Dirt is a poor 
> conductor for RF so why would you want to send it there?
> 
> RF energy is expensive to generate. Keep it up in the air where it belongs.
> 
> 73, Bill W6WRT
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Steve Baum]

There are so many things to consider when you try to calculate battery
requirements for emergency operation, is it really possible to accurately
predict how long a given battery will last? Here are a few of the variables
I'm aware of -

- battery type & amp/hour rating
- starting charge state of battery
- age & condition of battery
- environmental conditions - temperature
- loads other than K3 on battery, and whether constant or intermittant
- mode(s) of transmission, i.e., PSK, CW, SSB
- transmit power used for each mode
- percentage of time for each mode vs. receive time
- total operating time desired

For me, a subjective approach makes the most sense. I would make some rough
calculations but really pay attention to suggestions of those who have real
world experience. One or two of deep cycle golf cart batteries would
probably be all I ever would need. Then remember to keep them charged!

Oh, and don't assume you need 100W to make contacts! :)

Steve
AA6VO
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Dale Putnam]

Ground is not necessarily dirt. Ground is what ever medium allows current flow 
in the return circuit, be it rf.. ac.. dc.. or spikes. However.. each type of 
current flow.. REQUIRES not only a ground.. but a different ground as in 
different capabilities, skin or surface flow, multipoint flow,very high current 
flow are some examples.   A single ground, will not generally provide all that 
is needed. Yet,  generally, many grounds eventually wind up in dirt. 
Have a great day, 
 
 
--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy
 
 


> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:17:43 -0800
> From: dezrat1...@wildblue.net
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery
> 
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:  (may be snipped)
> 
> On 3/5/2014 11:42 AM, Dale Putnam wrote:
> > The rf needs a ground.. yes...
> 
> REPLY:
> 
> I disagree. RF does not need to flow through dirt. Dirt is a poor 
> conductor for RF so why would you want to send it there?
> 
> RF energy is expensive to generate. Keep it up in the air where it belongs.
> 
> 73, Bill W6WRT
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Jim Brown]

On 3/5/2014 11:30 AM, Clint wrote:

All the talk about "off grid" operation has me wondering: Would it be wise,
or helpful, to ground the negitive side of the battery to the shack/house
ground system (if the charging system is isolated)?


There is no advantage to grounding the negative power lead, and it is 
can be the cause of noise problems.


Good (safe) engineering practice, as well as virtually all electrical 
building codes in the developed world, require that all grounds in a 
premises be bonded together by short, fat copper. That includes, but is 
not limited to, the power system ground, grounds for CATV, telephone, 
any building steel, the entry point for all antennas, and the radio 
operating desk. This bonding is primarily for safety, but it also 
minimizes hum, buzz, and RF interference.


When operating in the field on batteries, it's still important to ground 
the station for lightning protection. But a connection to earth does NOT 
make an antenna work better. Indeed, when we add radials or a 
counterpoise to an end-fed antenna, we are diverting antenna current 
AWAY from the earth.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Bill Frantz]

I think measurements using this protocol will include the losses 
in the Mains Voltage to 12 Volt power supply. If you are running 
off batteries, then you have 12 volts already and don't suffer 
any conversion losses.


Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 3/5/14 at 6:43 AM, n1helra...@gmail.com (Paul (N1HEL)) wrote:

Hmmm.  Thanks for the comments. It may be that the amperage 
indicator on my new main line surge protector is faulty.  I 
will try again, this time using a Kill-A-Watt power consumption 
meter on my various power strips and adding up the readings of 
power drawn.  More news as it happens...

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[dmoes]

The current readings on the Killowat are showing AC into the power supply. 
losses in the Astron there and with additional  loads it will be drawing more 
power than the K3 alone. The other question is the Killowatt reading peak 
currents or RMS.In a perfect world with a 100 percent efficient power 
supply connected to a K3 drawing 15A at 13.8V. The power supply will draw 
1.7A. At 120 V ac.But even the best power supplies especially analogue  are 
far from 100 percent efficient.  So your readings are reasonable   onto that, 
and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, the K3 will draw somewhat 
more than 15A. Key down at 100W  so the am meter on the Astron may be reading a 
little low. 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

-Original Message-
From: Paul Grigorieff 
Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:16:23 
To: Frank R. Oppedijk
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

OK, here are some new readings, taken with a Kill-A-Watt power consumption
meter.  The readings in transmit mode were taken by keying down in CW for a
few seconds and waiting until the meter reading stabilized.

I have an Astron 70A power supply powering a Rigrunner that then supplies a
K3, a KAT500, and a PigKnob.  The P3 is plugged into the K3.  There is a
set of speakers, which draw .06A AC as well.

K3 in RCV mode   .92A AC, or 84W   6 DC  at  14v
K3 in XMIT, 15W out  2.7A AC, or 240W17A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 50W out  3.7A AC, or 342W24A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 100W out4.7A AC, or 438W31A DC"

How do these look to everyone?  I'd like to get them close to right so that
I can calculate my battery needs for emergency operation.

Something else I don't understand is the ammeter on the front of the
Astron.  When the K3 is turned on,  the Astron's meter jumps up about 1A
DC.  When the K3 is transmitting at 15W, the Astron's meter reads about 7A
DC.  At 50W transmitted power, it reads 11A DC. And at 100W out, it reads
15A DC.  Quite a difference from the measured and computed DC amps listed
above.  What is going on here?  Simply an innaccurate Astron meter?

Thanks,
   -Paul, N1HEL




On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Frank R. Oppedijk  wrote:

> > My K3, on receive, with the KAT500 in-line, the P3, and my massive 70A
> Astron p.s. powering the K3, drew about 20A DC.  Putting the K3 in transmit
> mode, with just under 12W drive (so as not to kick in the 100w amp)
> required about 30A DC.  Boosting the output to 50W drew about 70A DC.
>  Running it "wide open," at 100W out, required about 80A DC.  And finally,
> turning on the KPA-500, with 15W drive to yield 300W out, required 150A DC.
>
> I haven't made any measurements myself, but I do believe there must be
> some error in your numbers. If RX draws 20A and TX at 100W draws 80A, that
> means 60A x 12V = 720W input power to create 100W RF output. The other 620W
> must be dissipated into heat, which, I guess, would melt the K3 over time
> :) There clearly must be an error somewhere.
>
> Also, 20A on RX seems way too high for me. The K3 by itself draws 2A on
> RX, IIRC. Add an extra 1A for the P3 and the KAT500 maybe, and we're still
> missing 17A.
>
> Was your measurement device faulty, or do you have an error in your maths?
>
> 73 de Frank PA4N
>
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-- 
Paul
N1HEL
Half Moon Bay, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Bill Turner]

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:  (may be snipped)

On 3/5/2014 11:42 AM, Dale Putnam wrote:

The rf needs a ground.. yes...


REPLY:

I disagree. RF does not need to flow through dirt. Dirt is a poor 
conductor for RF so why would you want to send it there?


RF energy is expensive to generate. Keep it up in the air where it belongs.

73, Bill W6WRT

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Paul Grigorieff]

OK, here are some new readings, taken with a Kill-A-Watt power consumption
meter.  The readings in transmit mode were taken by keying down in CW for a
few seconds and waiting until the meter reading stabilized.

I have an Astron 70A power supply powering a Rigrunner that then supplies a
K3, a KAT500, and a PigKnob.  The P3 is plugged into the K3.  There is a
set of speakers, which draw .06A AC as well.

K3 in RCV mode   .92A AC, or 84W   6 DC  at  14v
K3 in XMIT, 15W out  2.7A AC, or 240W17A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 50W out  3.7A AC, or 342W24A DC"
K3 in XMIT, 100W out4.7A AC, or 438W31A DC"

How do these look to everyone?  I'd like to get them close to right so that
I can calculate my battery needs for emergency operation.

Something else I don't understand is the ammeter on the front of the
Astron.  When the K3 is turned on,  the Astron's meter jumps up about 1A
DC.  When the K3 is transmitting at 15W, the Astron's meter reads about 7A
DC.  At 50W transmitted power, it reads 11A DC. And at 100W out, it reads
15A DC.  Quite a difference from the measured and computed DC amps listed
above.  What is going on here?  Simply an innaccurate Astron meter?

Thanks,
   -Paul, N1HEL




On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Frank R. Oppedijk  wrote:

> > My K3, on receive, with the KAT500 in-line, the P3, and my massive 70A
> Astron p.s. powering the K3, drew about 20A DC.  Putting the K3 in transmit
> mode, with just under 12W drive (so as not to kick in the 100w amp)
> required about 30A DC.  Boosting the output to 50W drew about 70A DC.
>  Running it "wide open," at 100W out, required about 80A DC.  And finally,
> turning on the KPA-500, with 15W drive to yield 300W out, required 150A DC.
>
> I haven't made any measurements myself, but I do believe there must be
> some error in your numbers. If RX draws 20A and TX at 100W draws 80A, that
> means 60A x 12V = 720W input power to create 100W RF output. The other 620W
> must be dissipated into heat, which, I guess, would melt the K3 over time
> :) There clearly must be an error somewhere.
>
> Also, 20A on RX seems way too high for me. The K3 by itself draws 2A on
> RX, IIRC. Add an extra 1A for the P3 and the KAT500 maybe, and we're still
> missing 17A.
>
> Was your measurement device faulty, or do you have an error in your maths?
>
> 73 de Frank PA4N
>
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-- 
Paul
N1HEL
Half Moon Bay, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Bill Turner]

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:  (may be snipped)

On 3/5/2014 11:30 AM, Clint wrote:

Would it be wise,
or helpful, to ground the negitive side of the battery to the shack/house
ground system (if the charging system is isolated)?


REPLY:

I wold not do it. The only ground you need it the safety ground provided 
by the third wire on your AC plug.


Adding a separate ground wire does two things, both of which are bad:

1.  It provides an additional path for lightning strikes which hit 
nearby power lines, travel through your house AC wiring, through your 
rig and into ground. Don't try to ground lightning via your rig. Keep it 
away in the first place.


2.  It provides a path for your transmitted RF to flow into the earth. 
Dirt is lossy at RF. Keep your RF up ion the air where it belongs. If 
you have RF on the chassis of your rig, you don't have a grounding 
problem, you have an antenna problem, most likely unbalance in the feed 
line, which can be cured by a choke balun in the feedline.


73, Bill W6WRT

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[Elecraft] Looking for used K3 100 wattversion

[Sherman Leifer]

If you have a K3 you would like to sell. just give me a call.

Sherman
W2FLA
561-244-5400
Boynton Beach, Florida.

Thanks and best 73
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Mono or stereo speaker

[dmoes]

Actually.  If the speaker is set to one it will still send signal to the ring 
connection. Just mono.   Even if there is nothing going to the ring.  By using 
a mono plug that will short ring to sleve.  Just with the power on thump you 
could create a problem.  Change the connector. Leave the ring open. 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

-Original Message-
From: bill conkling 
Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 14:52:52 
To: Edward F. Steinfeld
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Mono or stereo speaker

If, and only if you have Speakers set to "1", you can use a mono plug.  DONOT 
set speakers to "2" with it inserted however.  Smoke will escape and you will 
be faced with a repair.

My rule is: NEVER plug a mono plug in the Speaker jack, EVER!

bill nr4c

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

"Edward F. Steinfeld"  wrote:

>I have an external speaker with a monaural plug. If I set Speakers to 1 can
>I use the mono plug? The write-up is slightly confusing to me.
>
>73,
>KB1ZJK - Ed
>
>Edward F. Steinfeld  KB1ZJK
>25 Arbor Glen Drive
>Stow, MA 01775-1258
>Home: (978)897-3127
>Cell: (978)376-3146
>mailto::edw...@go-embedded.com
>http://www.go-embedded.com  
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Steinfeld 
>
> 
>
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[WILLIS COOKE]

Paul, I have been wondering where you got your information.  It now sounds like 
you have been using peak currents that are designed to prove to you that you 
need the surge protector equipment rather than any kind of metering to predict 
battery life or any other type of average current or electric meter charges.  
Such surges are common with power supplies with large capacitance that are 
turned off then on and the capacitors charge.  These have to do only with the 
internal resistance in the power supply and the resistance of the electrical 
lines and nothing to do with your battery requirements.  Your battery capacity, 
I would estimate to be the receive current x the required operation time x the 
average power x 2 x transmit duty.  Receive current should be about 0.5 amps 
for the K2, 1.0 for the K3 with one receiver and 2.0 with two receivers.  The 
average power should be about 0.3 X peak power for CW and a bit less for SB.  
The duty cycle should be
 about 0.7 for a contest station calling CQ down to almost nothing for a 
station mostly listening to a net.  The efficiency for a battery would be best 
predicted by manufacturer's data, but should be high for a reasonable sized 
battery.  A 60 amp-hour battery is fairly small.  My station battery is rated 
at 122 amp hours.  A contest station calling CQ for 48 hours with a K3 using 
two receivers and transmitting at 100 watts should require a battery capable of 
48 hours x 2 amps +48 X (100 watts/12v) x 0.7 x 0.3 = 180 amp hours or two 
fully charged batteries.  Of course, you would want a big amplifier, a 
computer, some lights and a refrigerator for food and drink, so the K3 will be 
the least of your worry.  If you use an ice chest and an LED light and hunt and 
pounce a single well charged battery should handle a CQ WW unless you want a 
rotary beam or an amp.  You will note that you can cut your battery requirement 
in half with only one receiver in
 your K3.  This estimate makes a lot of reasonable assumptions, so it would 
require some empirical data to be very accurate, but it shows that operating on 
a weekend camping trip is very reasonable because you are unlikely to call CQ 
all night, particularly if your XYL is along to dictate some of your activity.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Paul (N1HEL) 
To: Frank R. Oppedijk ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid
 

Hmmm.  Thanks for the comments. It may be that the amperage indicator on my new 
main line surge protector is faulty.  I will try again, this time using a 
Kill-A-Watt power consumption meter on my various power strips and adding up 
the readings of power drawn.  More news as it happens...
-Paul, N1HEL
_

- Original Message - From: "Frank R. Oppedijk" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Mono or stereo speaker

[bill conkling]

If, and only if you have Speakers set to "1", you can use a mono plug.  DONOT 
set speakers to "2" with it inserted however.  Smoke will escape and you will 
be faced with a repair.

My rule is: NEVER plug a mono plug in the Speaker jack, EVER!

...bill nr4c

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

"Edward F. Steinfeld"  wrote:

>I have an external speaker with a monaural plug. If I set Speakers to 1 can
>I use the mono plug? The write-up is slightly confusing to me.
>
>73,
>KB1ZJK - Ed
>
>Edward F. Steinfeld  KB1ZJK
>25 Arbor Glen Drive
>Stow, MA 01775-1258
>Home: (978)897-3127
>Cell: (978)376-3146
>mailto::edw...@go-embedded.com
>http://www.go-embedded.com  
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Steinfeld 
>
> 
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 KXPA100

[G7KXZ]

I think I may have found the problem, although not tested

My dummy load has gone open circuit ( at QRP Power it matches 1:1 anything over 
10w and it goes to 6:1 !!
Its now in the bin.

The losses are obviously reflected

I will post again when tested with a 'functional' dummy load


Cheers
Kevin


On 4 Mar 2014, at 18:21, Matt VK2RQ  wrote:

> First check the supply voltage to the amp -- if you're not giving it at least 
> 13,8V you may find it winds back the max output power.
> 
> 73, Matt VK2RQ
> 
>> On 5 Mar 2014, at 4:36 am, "Cady, Fred"  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> There is a power calibration that you can do.  This is from the KX3 firmware 
>> notes for KX3 firmware 1.76.  Maybe you can try that.
>> 
>> MCU 1.76 / DSP 1.27, 11-20-2013
>> 
>> * MENU:PA MODE NOW HAS POWER-OUT CAL (P out CAL) SETTING:  This enables 75-W 
>> power calibration in TUNE mode. When PWR is adjusted, and "P out CAL" mode 
>> is in effect, setting power to 75 watts shows "CAL 75W" on VFO B.
>> 
>> * KXPA100 DRIVE POWER CAL DATA UTILIZED: If the KXPA100's per-band 75-W 
>> drive power has been saved at the factory, the KX3 will use it.  If not, the 
>> KX3's own per-band amplifier drive data is used (if available). This data is 
>> created by setting PA MODE to Pout CAL (see above), then doing a TUNE on 
>> each band at 75 W.
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Fred KE7X
>> 
>> "The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed"
>> "The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit"
>> www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com 
>> KPA500 and KAT500 Quick Set Up Guide
>> http://www.ke7x.com/home/k-line-introduction-and-set-up-guide 
>> (Coming soon: "The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station")
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of G7KXZ
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 10:14 AM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 KXPA100
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have had my KX3 for some time, just completed a kit KXPA100 with Tuner.
>> 
>> Testing all works well, ATU tunes very well. Audio reports on TX good.
>> 
>> My issue is with the Power out LED's and the Utility program monitoring the 
>> power. I do not have an accurate Power Meter Output appears as indicated not 
>> to exceed 70W
>> 
>> The LEDs follow the Utility program (makes sense) Can an adjustments be 
>> made? 
>> I am off to EA8 land on Monday. and would like to run 100w and not 
>> 12w !!!
>> 
>> Att On
>> SWR 1:1
>> KX3 Dial= 25W
>> Utility Input= 0.4
>> Utility Forward= 7
>> Dissipated= 52
>> Relected= 0.0
>> 
>> SWR 1:1
>> KX3 Dial= 50W
>> Utility Input= 1.2
>> Utility Forward= 20
>> Dissipated= 74
>> Relected= 0.1
>> 
>> SWR 1:1
>> KX3 Dial= 75W
>> Utility Input= 2.1
>> Utility Forward= 36.5
>> Dissipated= 87
>> Relected= 0.3
>> 
>> SWR 1:1
>> KX3 Dial= 100W
>> Utility Input= 4
>> Utility Forward= 64
>> Dissipated= 96
>> Relected= 0.4
>> 
>> SWR 1:1
>> KX3 Dial= 110W
>> Utility Input= 5
>> Utility Forward= 75
>> Dissipated= 96.5
>> Relected= 0.4
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Dale Putnam]

HI Clint,   Wouldn't that be in parallel with the station ground? IF the radio 
puts the battery  negative ground... if not.. then it would provide another 
path for noise to enter the radio... and.. it would also provide another path.. 
not desired - for lightning to follow. I'd be real hesitant to do that, unless 
someone else can justify it.  The station needs a ground.. yes. The rf needs a 
ground.. yes... battery.. no
In the field or in an RV.. same thing.. the station needs an rf ground.. and a 
dc ground.. as in one stake.. if you are staying put long enough.. or ground to 
the vehicle. But not necessarily reground the vehicle battery.. that could be a 
bad thing... that, under certain failures cause an excessive amount of current 
through the radio ground... and that would not be a good thing at all. 


Have a great day, 
 
 
--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy
 
 


> From: clint.st...@sbcglobal.net
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 11:30:54 -0800
> Subject: [Elecraft] 12 volt battery
> 
>  
> 
> All the talk about "off grid" operation has me wondering: Would it be wise,
> or helpful, to ground the negitive side of the battery to the shack/house
> ground system (if the charging system is isolated)?
> 
> How about while operating in the field/RV?
> 
>  
> 
> Clint Stark
> 
> KI6SSN
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our
> children. 
> 
> ~ Native American Proverb
> 
>  
> 
> __
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[Elecraft] 12 volt battery

[Clint]

 

All the talk about "off grid" operation has me wondering: Would it be wise,
or helpful, to ground the negitive side of the battery to the shack/house
ground system (if the charging system is isolated)?

How about while operating in the field/RV?

 

Clint Stark

KI6SSN

 

 

We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our
children. 

~ Native American Proverb

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Sidetone Pitch

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

You can't.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/5/2014 1:54 PM, ra...@eblllsharp.com wrote:

How can I adjust the sidetone pitch to the nearest 0.1 Hertz rather than having 
the default adjustment steps in 10 Hz increments ?

Thanks,

Bill
w8hi
Delaware, OH



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[Elecraft] K3 Sidetone Pitch

[ra...@eblllsharp.com]

How can I adjust the sidetone pitch to the nearest 0.1 Hertz rather than having 
the default adjustment steps in 10 Hz increments ?

Thanks, 

Bill
w8hi
Delaware, OH



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Re: [Elecraft] Connecting P3 to a K3

[Alan Bloom]

An RS-232 Y cable is needed for a device like a SteppIR antenna, which 
receives but does not transmit data on the RS-232.  The Y goes in the 
connection between the P3 and the computer.


Alan N1AL


On 03/05/2014 06:11 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Rich:

The picture you seek is on page 13 of the P3 owners manual, available from our 
manuals page.

http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#p3

There is an RS232 (serial) connection from Host PC to P3, then P3 to K3.  Also 
a coaxial BNC cable from K3 IF out to P3, and the P3 needs power, which can be 
obtained from the K3.  The P3 comes from Elecraft with a short serial cable, 
coax IF cable, and power cable for the K3 back panel RCA 12V connector.

A Y is typically used for the 15 pin ACC cable.  The P3 is not connected to a 
15 pin ACC cable.

73 de Dick, K6KR



On Mar 5, 2014, at 5:37, Richard Thorne  wrote:

I just ordered a P3.

I believe I need to order the y cable as well but I'm not sure.

I've down loaded the manual and I can't find the wiring diagram between the P3 
and K3, specifically the nice picture of the back of the units showing how 
everything is connected.

I am already using one y cable so my Microham keyer and KAT-500 can share the 
accessory jack.  I'm also already using the RS-232 port for my Microham keyer.

Do I need another Y cable?

Thanks in advance.

Rich - N5ZC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Mono or stereo speaker

[Don Wilhelm]

Ed,
Ed,

The answer is NO.
Even with speakers set to 1, one channel of the speaker jack is still 
connected to the output of the audio amplifier.  The menu only activates 
one channel, it does not change the physical connection.
Replace the plug with a stereo plug wired only to the tip and sleeve.  
That will work in both a mono jack and a stereo jack.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2014 12:06 PM, Edward F. Steinfeld wrote:

I have an external speaker with a monaural plug. If I set Speakers to 1 can
I use the mono plug? The write-up is slightly confusing to me.

73,
KB1ZJK - Ed



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[Elecraft] K3 - Mono or stereo speaker

[Edward F. Steinfeld]

I have an external speaker with a monaural plug. If I set Speakers to 1 can
I use the mono plug? The write-up is slightly confusing to me.

73,
KB1ZJK - Ed

Edward F. Steinfeld  KB1ZJK
25 Arbor Glen Drive
Stow, MA 01775-1258
Home: (978)897-3127
Cell: (978)376-3146
mailto::edw...@go-embedded.com
http://www.go-embedded.com  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Steinfeld 

 

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[Elecraft] KX3 Travel Stand

[Richard Newstead]

Hi Elecrafters

I have just made a video about the latest version of our popular KX3 Travel
Stand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPny-121AfI

I hope that you like it!

73 Richard G3CWI
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Paul (N1HEL)]

Hmmm.  Thanks for the comments. It may be that the amperage indicator on my 
new main line surge protector is faulty.  I will try again, this time using 
a Kill-A-Watt power consumption meter on my various power strips and adding 
up the readings of power drawn.  More news as it happens...

 -Paul, N1HEL
_

- Original Message - 
From: "Frank R. Oppedijk" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid


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Re: [Elecraft] Connecting P3 to a K3

[Dick Dievendorff]

Rich:

The picture you seek is on page 13 of the P3 owners manual, available from our 
manuals page.

http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#p3

There is an RS232 (serial) connection from Host PC to P3, then P3 to K3.  Also 
a coaxial BNC cable from K3 IF out to P3, and the P3 needs power, which can be 
obtained from the K3.  The P3 comes from Elecraft with a short serial cable, 
coax IF cable, and power cable for the K3 back panel RCA 12V connector.

A Y is typically used for the 15 pin ACC cable.  The P3 is not connected to a 
15 pin ACC cable.

73 de Dick, K6KR


> On Mar 5, 2014, at 5:37, Richard Thorne  wrote:
> 
> I just ordered a P3.
> 
> I believe I need to order the y cable as well but I'm not sure.
> 
> I've down loaded the manual and I can't find the wiring diagram between the 
> P3 and K3, specifically the nice picture of the back of the units showing how 
> everything is connected.
> 
> I am already using one y cable so my Microham keyer and KAT-500 can share the 
> accessory jack.  I'm also already using the RS-232 port for my Microham keyer.
> 
> Do I need another Y cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Rich - N5ZC
> 
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Connecting P3 to a K3

[Tom]

Hi
No you do not need a Y cable to connect the P3. You connect to a serial cable 
between them and the p3 then connects to the MicroHam. 
73s Tom 




 Original message 
From: Richard Thorne  
Date: 05/03/2014  08:37  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Elecraft Reflector  
Subject: [Elecraft] Connecting  P3 to a K3 
 
I just ordered a P3.

I believe I need to order the y cable as well but I'm not sure.

I've down loaded the manual and I can't find the wiring diagram between 
the P3 and K3, specifically the nice picture of the back of the units 
showing how everything is connected.

I am already using one y cable so my Microham keyer and KAT-500 can 
share the accessory jack.  I'm also already using the RS-232 port for my 
Microham keyer.

Do I need another Y cable?

Thanks in advance.

Rich - N5ZC



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[Elecraft] Connecting P3 to a K3

[Richard Thorne]

I just ordered a P3.

I believe I need to order the y cable as well but I'm not sure.

I've down loaded the manual and I can't find the wiring diagram between 
the P3 and K3, specifically the nice picture of the back of the units 
showing how everything is connected.


I am already using one y cable so my Microham keyer and KAT-500 can 
share the accessory jack.  I'm also already using the RS-232 port for my 
Microham keyer.


Do I need another Y cable?

Thanks in advance.

Rich - N5ZC



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic and headphone

[Don Wilhelm]

The complexity may involve sorting out the headphone connection from the 
mic while keeping feedback away.  Telephone uses only a single pair wire 
in all installations I am familiar with.  Yes, there are 4 wires in the 
typical phone jack and cable, but that will handle 2 lines.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/4/2014 10:37 PM, N5AG wrote:

Thanks Don.  I probably am worried about nothing.  I know some others using 
this setup on Kenwood and Flex.  Their's seemed a little more complex.  That is 
the reason for the question.

Allen Griffith



On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 7:33 PM, Don Wilhelm-4 [via Elecraft] 
 wrote:
  
Allen,


Most modern audio output stages are low impedance sources, and there is
no need to "match impedances".
Do you think about matching impedances when you plug something into a
power mains wall receptacle?  Likely not, because the AC mains is a low
impedance source and will deliver whatever the device needs. Your
headphones are similar - with a low source impedance driver, you don't
have to worry about it, just adjust the AF gain to a comfortable level.
More power will be delivered to a low impedance device, but headphones
do not require much power.

The microphone is similar.  It is a relatively low impedance source, and
it is operating into a relatively high impedance device (1k to 10k for
modern transceivers) and the voltage produced is the important
parameter.  Yes, high impedance microphones may not give the proper
frequency response curve, but other than that, no impedance matching is
normally required.  Modern microphones are in the range of 200 to 600
ohms driving impedance.  I suspect yours is also in that range.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/4/2014 7:12 PM, N5AG wrote:


Has anyone wired up a Plantronics CS50 Telephone headset system to the K3?
The Plantronics CS50 system is composed of a base unit that transmits and
receives in full duplex to a small headset that is worn and gives the
capability to transmit and receive up to 300 feet.  The system uses 900 mhz
to communicate between the base and the headset.

The base unit normally would plug in to a land line base telephone using the
standard four wire (two pair) found in most home telephone installs. I need
recommendations on wiring the Plantronics CS50 base unit to the back panel
mic and phone connections with the standard four wire line from the
Plantronics base.

Does the K3 have the ability via menu selection to match impedances for the
mic and audio hook up stated above or must the matching be done in the
interface between the Plantronics base and the K3?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 VFO encoder replacement

[dro...@necg.de]

 
Hi Tony,
 
you can certainly take an excerpt from the Assembly Manual of the kit form from 
Elecraft's website.
 
73, Olli - DH8BQA
 
 

> "N2TK, Tony"  hat am 5. März 2014 um 03:37 geschrieben:
>
>
> Is there an instruction file with pictures I can send to someone who needs
> to replace a defective encoder for VFOB?
>
> Tnx
>
> N2TK, tony
>
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3 Off Grid

[Frank R. Oppedijk]

> My K3, on receive, with the KAT500 in-line, the P3, and my massive 70A Astron 
> p.s. powering the K3, drew about 20A DC.  Putting the K3 in transmit mode, 
> with just under 12W drive (so as not to kick in the 100w amp) required about 
> 30A DC.  Boosting the output to 50W drew about 70A DC.  Running it "wide 
> open," at 100W out, required about 80A DC.  And finally, turning on the 
> KPA-500, with 15W drive to yield 300W out, required 150A DC.

I haven't made any measurements myself, but I do believe there must be some 
error in your numbers. If RX draws 20A and TX at 100W draws 80A, that means 60A 
x 12V = 720W input power to create 100W RF output. The other 620W must be 
dissipated into heat, which, I guess, would melt the K3 over time :) There 
clearly must be an error somewhere. 

Also, 20A on RX seems way too high for me. The K3 by itself draws 2A on RX, 
IIRC. Add an extra 1A for the P3 and the KAT500 maybe, and we're still missing 
17A.

Was your measurement device faulty, or do you have an error in your maths?

73 de Frank PA4N

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[Elecraft] Re KX3 KPA100

[Philip Godbold]

I have just run a quick test on my setup here.

Using a Bird 43P meter

All is OK, carrier power at 100W when measured on 40m was better than 5% 
accuracy and that is all you will get on this test setup

Also checked PEP power output on SSB, same result all OK

Have you run the test with the supply voltage indication turned on the KX3 ?  
Do you have full supply volts when turned up to 100W ?  There is a fair chance 
the power supply and/or leads are causing a voltage drop

Phil G4UDU



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