[Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

[Rick Ross]

In Yahoo groups have set Mail Subscription to NO EMAILS and even UnSubscribed 
to KX3 Yahoo Group but continue to get EMails.

Rick Ross
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 programming question

[Jindřich Vavruška]

Hello Ed,

funny, I was not aware of your solution :) it seems to be somewhat
invisible to Google Search.

I will have a look (just received and read your email).  My app has no link
yet and is not hosted on any source repo yet as it is really in the very
initial phase.

What it does as of now - it makes a list of available COM ports and has
some buttons to establish the connection, receive callback handlers, etc.

Then I have a small area where I can enter any test and send it to KX3.
The receive handler will automatically take care of the response.  Recently
I added a small decoder and few controls, so when, for instance
FA3575012; is received, the VFO A display is updated automatically,
same for all other codes (except that I don't have a GUI "receiver" for
every code, just a few basic ones). Everything is wrapped in Angularjs, so
I don't have to program data binding.

I would like to have at least a practical control panel (main controls for
casual operation) and some basic logging functionality because I really
love KX3's decoding capability, no need for additional setup of external
sound card, less cables, etc.

73 Jindra
OK4RM

2015-09-27 23:33 GMT+02:00 Edouard Lafargue :

>Jindra,
>
>Very happy to see yet another chrome packaged app coming up! You can
> check how it is done on my existing KX3 rig controller (Chrome packaged app
> too ) at http://wizkers.io/ or https://goo.gl/DgLqXH . No need to reinvent
> the wheel, it's all already implemented, and all open source (AGPL)  ;-)
>
> The code you probably want to see is there:
>
> https://github.com/wizkers/wizkers/blob/release/server/www/js/app/instruments/elecraft/display_live.js
> where I manage a proper transmission buffer that makes sure you will
> transmit and receive everything with no loss. Be careful that since Wizkers
> is open source under the AGPL, your own app will automatically become open
> source if you reuse any of this code... Do you have a link for your app?
>
> If you like this existing project, you are more than welcome to
> contribute! Wizkers already supports cool features like rigctld support,
> Piglet support, etc...
>
> 73 de Ed, W6ELA
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Jindra,
> > yes, just keep us posted when your done!
> > 73
> > Gernot
> >
> > PS: I guess you wanted to reply to the list.. you have to be careful most
> > email programs reply to the sender by default.
> >
> >
> > Hi Gernot,
> >
> > That could be it...  I am afraid I was expecting something like 40 chars
> > and did not bother reading full details :-)
> >
> > It seems the correct approach is to split exchange into chunks of 24
> chars
> > max and instead of dumb chaining follow each chunk by KY; and wait for
> KY2;
> > response, and only then continue.
> >
> > I was hoping to manage it without making the control program too busy,
> > obviously KX3 needs a little bit more attention.
> >
> > Anyway, it is doing quite nice things in my Chrome packaged app.  I can
> > manually switch everything and especially receive all responses with 100%
> > reliability.
> >
> > Hopefully it will be usable for comfortable work in PSK-D and FSK-D modes
> > (that is my main motivation), maybe for some CW contesting.
> >
> > Would you be interested when it is done?
> >
> > 73 Jindra
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 27.09.2015 um 00:31 schrieb g...@gmx.net:
> >
> >> Jindra,
> >> check the KYn; response for error / success. See manual re. the KY
> >> command. Might be a buffer overrun ? The buffer is limited to 24 chars
> >> according to the specs.
> >> 73
> >> Gernot, DF5RF
> >>
> >> Am 26.09.2015 um 20:18 schrieb Jindřich Vavruška:
> >>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I am programming yet another utility to control KX3 and I encountered a
> >>> strange (inconsistent) behavior.
> >>>
> >>> In digital mode contest traffic it is necessary to switch to RX
> >>> immediately
> >>> after exchange has been sent. I learned that the way to do this is to
> >>> send KYW >>> to send>;RX; to the serial interface.  The RX; after KY will ensure
> >>> immediate switch to receive and the W in KYW will ensure that the RX;
> >>> will
> >>> be interpreted after text sending is finished, i.e. will not interrupt
> >>> ongoing transmission.
> >>>
> >>> What surprised me is that when I send something like:
> >>> KYWCQ CQ CQ DE OK4RM;KYW DE OK4RM OK4RM PSE K;RX;
> >>> i.e. split a long text in shorter chunks.  In such case I believe all
> the
> >>> texts are sent (I have to verify that yet, though) but the effect of
> the
> >>> final RX; disappears.
> >>>
> >>> Is this a mistake in my program workflow or could that be a firmware
> >>> peculiarity? (I hesitate to call it a bug as everything else seems to
> >>> work
> >>> perfectly.)
> >>>
> >>> I think there will be no problem for a contest but if I wanted to use
> the
> >>> same pattern for longer exchanges in casual digi QSOs that would make
> >>> things a little bit more complicated.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any advice,
> >>>
> >>

Re: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

[David Pratt]

In a recent message, Rick Ross  writes
In Yahoo groups have set Mail Subscription to NO EMAILS and even 
UnSubscribed to KX3 Yahoo Group but continue to get EMails.


But the Elecraft reflector is NOT a Yahoo Group, Rick.  To remove 
yourself from it you need to follow the links at the bottom of this 
message.


73

David G4DMP


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[Elecraft] Using KXV3B preamp with K144XV

[David G4DMP]

I note that the preamp feature within the KXV3B is effective on the 24,
28 and 50MHz bands (6, 10 & 12 meters).  But, is it possible to
configure it for use with the K144XV internal 2m transverter which uses
an IF of 28MHz?   I thought this might be possible.

73 de David G4DMP

-- 
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
 | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds.   |
 | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Re: [Elecraft] Using KXV3B preamp with K144XV

[Ian White]

G4DMP wrote:
>I note that the preamp feature within the KXV3B is effective on the 24,
>28 and 50MHz bands (6, 10 & 12 meters).  But, is it possible to
>configure it for use with the K144XV internal 2m transverter which uses
>an IF of 28MHz?   I thought this might be possible.
>

More gain at the 28MHz IF would be the worst possible option from the
viewpoint of dynamic range on 144MHz.

If your K144XV meets the specification in the data sheet (system MDS
-144dBm, and assuming a 500Hz bandwidth) then you should be hearing 2m
antenna noise quite clearly in your suburban location.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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[Elecraft] {Elecraft} SSB Net for Sunday, September 27th

[James Wilson]

The SSB net meets each Sunday at 18:00 UCT (13:00 CDT)
on 14,303.5 MHz plus or minus QRM.

Most participants have some variety of Elecraft equuipment
but anyone interested is invited to check in and ANY RADIO
is welcome.

Please join us.

Jim - W4RKS


>Dennis Teal 
3:03 AM (4 hours ago)
>What is the time and freq of net
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Don't forget eclipse

[Matt Zilmer]

Hi David,

During the ecliipse, I was on 40m using a KX3 / KXPA100 mobile in
western Colorado.  I was operating below 7.2 MHz, SSB.  Honestly, I
didn't notice any difference in noise or propagation.  Part of the
time, I was in contact with stations in Missouri, Virginia, and
Wyoming.

It was early evening, from around 7:30 to 9 PM, here.  Because I was
driving, I could only observe the eclipse visually for a few minutes
before heading away from it.  Visually, it was quite a sight.

I *wish* I could fit the K3 into mobile ops, but the car is a Honda
Civic with severe space limitations.

73,
matt
W6NIA

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:02:40 +0100, you wrote:

>
>On 28 Sep 2015 05:52, Matt Zilmer  wrote:
>>
>> The blood moon was pretty fantastic from Montrose, CO. 
>>
>How did it affect radio conditions, Matt, particularly as regards noise and on 
>which bands? Were you using the new Synth boards?
>
>73 de David G4DMP
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Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
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[Elecraft] K3 Issues since Synthezer Upgrade

[Dennis Egan]

I did the Synthesizer on my K3 a couple of weeks ago.  After putting in the
synthesizers, I also upgraded to Firmware 5.33, which was the latest at the
time (I see that 5.35 was released the day after I did the upgrade).  The
SYNTH OK messages were seen on the menu, and the configuration was redone
as specified in the instructions.  I also took care not to lose any washers
inside the radio, and to not disturb anything within the radio.  Since
then, I have had a number of issues with my K3.

#1- DVK doesn't work via N1MM command.  VFO B says "DVK Not installed", but
I do have one installed.  I can also play the messages by pressing the
Message key.  I checked the config menu, and it says it is installed.
#2- I have heard a number of loud audio "pops" since the above changes.
#3- I have actually lost audio several times with no VFO B errors- audio
just stops in the middle of a QSO.
#4- During CQWW RTTY, if I was transmitting and pushed a key- say A/B, or
Rev- transmitting stops, I get an "Error PTT" followed by an "Error Key" in
the VFO B window for a few seconds each, then the radio clears itself.  I
can then resume transmitting.  No audio loss while this is happening.
#5- During the contest, N1MM would show the Radio Mode as PSK.  The program
would keep on transmitting RTTY, and what went into the log was indicated
as RTTY, the K3 was working properly in RTTY and indicated it was in Mode D
FSK correctly.
#6- When I tried to use Diversity reception, the K3 would switch into
Diversity mode correctly.  After a while, I would get a sudden total audio
loss and one of several DSE errors: E01, E00,  00C2C2, 003030.
#7- Turning the diversity OFF seemed to decrease the severity of
In all cases, power cycling the radio would clear the error and the audio
would be restored.

I've tried reloading firmware, and it reloaded without a problem.  Yes, I
power cycled the radio immediately after the firmware update was done.  I
haven't tried downloading the firmware a second time from the web site, and
then reloading it into the radio but I suspect that may be the next thing
that I try.

At this point, I'm open to suggestions.  Thanks for input!

Dennis W1UE
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[Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[Bill Conwell]

I'd like to do some quick and dirty comparing of antenna output signals
using my K3 (and/or P3).

 

(I've got two antennas I'd like to compare using different received carrier
signals - e.g., from a neighbor's TX, W1AW RTTY bulletins, etc.)

 

I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
dbV to display.  (How long is the stabilization period?  Does the display
sample and hold a single value, or is it averaged and continuously updated?
It seems like the former.)

 

Is this the way to go, or is there something I can do with the P3 that will
give a readout in dBm?  (I guess I could make a rough graphical measurement
by setting the P3 display threshold to match the weaker signal, then
switching to the stronger signal, and seeing how far above that threshold it
rises - with Scaling maximized.)

 

I know there's also W8WWW's S-Meter Lite, with which I've also dabbled -
presenting a digital S-meter, or relative dB, output.  (Or I could do a step
attenuator approach, but then I couldn't compare by simply flicking the
antenna switch, and QSB would be a problem.)

 

Thoughts?

 

Tnx,

 

/Bill, K2PO

Portland, OR

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Re: [Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[David Cole]

Interesting question just popped into my head as I read this...  

Does the P3 follow which RX is selected?  

-- 
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net

For MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
For Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
For MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info


On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:39 -0700, Bill Conwell wrote:
> I'd like to do some quick and dirty comparing of antenna output signals
> using my K3 (and/or P3).
> 
>  
> 
> (I've got two antennas I'd like to compare using different received carrier
> signals - e.g., from a neighbor's TX, W1AW RTTY bulletins, etc.)
> 
>  
> 
> I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
> unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
> dbV to display.  (How long is the stabilization period?  Does the display
> sample and hold a single value, or is it averaged and continuously updated?
> It seems like the former.)
> 
>  
> 
> Is this the way to go, or is there something I can do with the P3 that will
> give a readout in dBm?  (I guess I could make a rough graphical measurement
> by setting the P3 display threshold to match the weaker signal, then
> switching to the stronger signal, and seeing how far above that threshold it
> rises - with Scaling maximized.)
> 
>  
> 
> I know there's also W8WWW's S-Meter Lite, with which I've also dabbled -
> presenting a digital S-meter, or relative dB, output.  (Or I could do a step
> attenuator approach, but then I couldn't compare by simply flicking the
> antenna switch, and QSB would be a problem.)
> 
>  
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>  
> 
> Tnx,
> 
>  
> 
> /Bill, K2PO
> 
> Portland, OR
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[Chris Hallinan]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Bill Conwell  wrote:

> I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
> unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
> dbV to display.


How do you do that?

-Chris
K1AY
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Don't forget eclipse

[Phil Wheeler]

Don't give up too easily, Matt. Saw a Prius a 
month ago with five antennas mounted. Since I have 
a Prius, I was pretty amazed!


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/28/15 6:21 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

I *wish* I could fit the K3 into mobile ops, but the car is a Honda
Civic with severe space limitations.

73,
matt
W6NIA


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[Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[dw]

Hello gang,
Just ordered my first K3.
I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
Want to wait and see what I really will need.

I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
CW.
What filter do you find you use the most and why?
I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
occasional rag-chews.
Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.

Many thanks in advance
N1BBR :-]

-- 
 bw...@fastmail.net

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Re: [Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[Lyle Johnson]

Regarding the K3, select an antenna, be sure RF gain is at max and turn 
AGC OFF.  Set the display to AFV for a couple seconds.  This provides a 
baseline value against which the DBV display is calculated.  (This means 
dB in terms of voltage, not the traditional, standard dBv.  Thus 2x the 
voltage is shown as a 6 dB increase.)


The measurement time is either 0.5 seconds or 1.0 seconds in the DSP 
code.  The AFV TIME config menu item is either 500 (for 500 
milliseconds, or 0.5 seconds) or 1000 (for 1.0 seconds).  You'll want to 
dwell on a signal for twice that period to be sure the reading is 
accurate, then jot it down.  Now switch antennas, wait again and then 
jot it down.


The calculations in the DSP are true RMS calculations over the time 
period.  The previous results are not averaged.  Each measurement time 
is independent.


73,

Lyle KK7P

On 9/28/15 7:39 AM, Bill Conwell wrote:

I'd like to do some quick and dirty comparing of antenna output signals
using my K3 (and/or P3).

  


(I've got two antennas I'd like to compare using different received carrier
signals - e.g., from a neighbor's TX, W1AW RTTY bulletins, etc.)

  


I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
dbV to display.  (How long is the stabilization period?  Does the display
sample and hold a single value, or is it averaged and continuously updated?
It seems like the former.)

  


Is this the way to go, or is there something I can do with the P3 that will
give a readout in dBm?  (I guess I could make a rough graphical measurement
by setting the P3 display threshold to match the weaker signal, then
switching to the stronger signal, and seeing how far above that threshold it
rises - with Scaling maximized.)

  


I know there's also W8WWW's S-Meter Lite, with which I've also dabbled -
presenting a digital S-meter, or relative dB, output.  (Or I could do a step
attenuator approach, but then I couldn't compare by simply flicking the
antenna switch, and QSB would be a problem.)

  


Thoughts?

  


Tnx,

  


/Bill, K2PO

Portland, OR

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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[David Cole]

Hi,
I use the 400 Hz filter for CW, and would enjoy a 1 KHz filter I
believe...  The 400 is just a touch to narrow for my tastes.  It works
well in crowded conditions, and I would not want to get rid of it, but a
1 KHz might get more use...
-- 
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net

For MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
For Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
For MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info


On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:57 -0700, dw wrote:
> Hello gang,
> Just ordered my first K3.
> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
> 
> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
> CW.
> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
> occasional rag-chews.
> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
> 
> Many thanks in advance
> N1BBR :-]
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Kenneth Christiansen]

Hi to the gang

My vote would be for the 400 hz filter. I ordered one for my K3s and like it.

73

Ken  W0CZ w0cz at i29 dot net

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 9:57 AM, dw  wrote:
> 
> Hello gang,
> Just ordered my first K3.
> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
> 
> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
> CW.
> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
> occasional rag-chews.
> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
> 
> Many thanks in advance
> N1BBR :-]
> 
> -- 
> bw...@fastmail.net
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[Kenneth Christiansen]

Hi Bill

The P3 does follow the antenna you have selected. I just verified it again but 
I have a beam and a vertical and have compared them that way for years.

The AFV function is set by the follow steps
TAP   DISP/METER
Turn the B VFO nob to select AFV and wait several seconds for it to stablaize.
Turn the VFO B to dBV

I just tried that again and my vertical measures +.05 dBV and my beam measures 
-2.6 dBV both looking at 20 meter noise and the ATT and PRE set the same for 
both the REG and RX ANT.

I hope that helps you

73 and good luck

Ken  W0CZ   w0cz at i29 dot net


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 9:47 AM, David Cole  wrote:
> 
> Interesting question just popped into my head as I read this...  
> 
> Does the P3 follow which RX is selected?  
> 
> -- 
> Thanks and 73's,
> For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
> www.nk7z.net
> 
> For MixW support see;
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> For Dopplergram information see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> For MM-SSTV see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:39 -0700, Bill Conwell wrote:
>> I'd like to do some quick and dirty comparing of antenna output signals
>> using my K3 (and/or P3).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> (I've got two antennas I'd like to compare using different received carrier
>> signals - e.g., from a neighbor's TX, W1AW RTTY bulletins, etc.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
>> unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
>> dbV to display.  (How long is the stabilization period?  Does the display
>> sample and hold a single value, or is it averaged and continuously updated?
>> It seems like the former.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Is this the way to go, or is there something I can do with the P3 that will
>> give a readout in dBm?  (I guess I could make a rough graphical measurement
>> by setting the P3 display threshold to match the weaker signal, then
>> switching to the stronger signal, and seeing how far above that threshold it
>> rises - with Scaling maximized.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I know there's also W8WWW's S-Meter Lite, with which I've also dabbled -
>> presenting a digital S-meter, or relative dB, output.  (Or I could do a step
>> attenuator approach, but then I couldn't compare by simply flicking the
>> antenna switch, and QSB would be a problem.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tnx,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> /Bill, K2PO
>> 
>> Portland, OR
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Don't forget eclipse

[Matt Zilmer]

Heh.  Nice mental image, Phil.  The Prius must've looked like a
porcupine, but one that works all bands / all modes.

The Civic does well with one VHF FM xcvr for APRS / voice and a KX3.
My XYL won't allow "full use" of the passenger seating area for added
radios, but I suppose some of these could be trunk-mounted like the
KXPA100.

On the road to Cedar City, UT.

73,
matt
w6NIA

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:53:22 -0700, you wrote:

>Don't give up too easily, Matt. Saw a Prius a 
>month ago with five antennas mounted. Since I have 
>a Prius, I was pretty amazed!
>
>73, Phil W7OX
>
>On 9/28/15 6:21 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
>> I *wish* I could fit the K3 into mobile ops, but the car is a Honda
>> Civic with severe space limitations.
>>
>> 73,
>> matt
>> W6NIA
>
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Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
"Always store beer in a dark place."  -R. Heinlein

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[Elecraft] Grounding

[P.J.Hicks]

Yesterday, Jim K9YC posted a link to a .pdf file dealing with shack grounding. 
It is obviously a slide presentation suitable for a group lecture. Is there a 
more "printer friendly" copy of that information? I like to print out and study 
things of that sort on paper and the slide style precludes doing that easily. 
  
Thanks, 
  
PJH, N7PXY 
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Kenneth Christiansen]

Hi to the Gang

This is a subjective question but after using a 500 hz and 200 hz filter for 7 
years I ordered a 400 filter for my K3s. The main reason is it works well for 
both CW and RTTY and of course the DSP does all the rest. I also ordered a 2.1 
khz filter so if I go past 400 hz I get that one. It works well for me but this 
is just my opinion.

Ken W0CZw0cz at i29 dot net

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 10:18 AM, David Cole  wrote:
> 
> For MixW support see;
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> For Dopplergram information see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> For MM-SSTV see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:57 -0700, dw wrote:
>> Hello gang,
>> Just ordered my first K3.
>> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
>> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
>> 
>> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
>> CW.
>> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
>> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
>> occasional rag-chews.
>> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
>> 
>> Many thanks in advance
>> N1BBR :-]
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

[jim]

.

Welcome to Hotel California

.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick Ross
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:58 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

In Yahoo groups have set Mail Subscription to NO EMAILS and even
UnSubscribed to KX3 Yahoo Group but continue to get EMails.

Rick Ross
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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/28/2015 8:49 AM, P.J.Hicks wrote:

Is there a more "printer friendly" copy of that information?


Sorry, no. Perhaps when I have time I'll do it.

Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Phil Anderson]

Hey DW etal,

I noticed that you like to get on 40 and 30 at sunrise..I may try 
that if I can get up early enough! Have you read the article in the last 
QST about the 3 myths about propagation, notably on ionization at 
sunrise? It may be of benefit.


73, Phil, W0XI, Lawrence, KS.


dw 
Monday, September 28, 2015 9:57 AM
Hello gang,
Just ordered my first K3.
I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
Want to wait and see what I really will need.

I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
CW.
What filter do you find you use the most and why?
I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
occasional rag-chews.
Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.

Many thanks in advance
N1BBR :-]




---
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Mike Reublin NF4L]

The filters you guys are discussing are roofing filters. The filtering you're 
thinking about is done digitally, and is continuously variable. The K3s  isn't 
your Dad's analog rig.  

Here's an Elecraft article explaining roofing filters. 
http://www.elecraft.com/K3/Roofing_Filters.htm

73, Mike NF4L


> On Sep 28, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Kenneth Christiansen  wrote:
> 
> Hi to the Gang
> 
> This is a subjective question but after using a 500 hz and 200 hz filter for 
> 7 years I ordered a 400 filter for my K3s. The main reason is it works well 
> for both CW and RTTY and of course the DSP does all the rest. I also ordered 
> a 2.1 khz filter so if I go past 400 hz I get that one. It works well for me 
> but this is just my opinion.
> 
> Ken W0CZw0cz at i29 dot net
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2015, at 10:18 AM, David Cole  wrote:
>> 
>> For MixW support see;
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
>> For Dopplergram information see:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
>> For MM-SSTV see:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:57 -0700, dw wrote:
>>> Hello gang,
>>> Just ordered my first K3.
>>> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
>>> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
>>> 
>>> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
>>> CW.
>>> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
>>> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
>>> occasional rag-chews.
>>> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
>>> 
>>> Many thanks in advance
>>> N1BBR :-]
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

[Dan Boardman]

FUNNY!!! He can never leave

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 11:57 AM
To: 'Rick Ross'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

.

Welcome to Hotel California

.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick Ross
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:58 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

In Yahoo groups have set Mail Subscription to NO EMAILS and even UnSubscribed 
to KX3 Yahoo Group but continue to get EMails.

Rick Ross
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Re: [Elecraft] REMOVE ME FROM YOUR EMAIL LIST!!!

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Rick,

I apologize for the confusion on this. The KX3 Yahoo list was set up 
independently by KX3 enthusiasts and is not one of our official lists. We do not 
administer it.


Your best bet is to send a note to the KX3 Yahoo administrator via the link on 
the KX3 Yahoo page.


73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 9/27/2015 11:58 PM, Rick Ross wrote:

In Yahoo groups have set Mail Subscription to NO EMAILS and even UnSubscribed 
to KX3 Yahoo Group but continue to get EMails.

Rick Ross



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[Elecraft] K3S Proper Grounding

[dw]

I'm wondering if the RFI is primarily due to the condition of the coax?
If a tuner is located at the rig-side of the coax, and the coax is at
high SWR, it could possibly be a cause for coax radiation.
A test might confirm that.
Perhaps you could find a spot on 40m where the SWR is null, and no tuner
is needed.
If, at that point your RFI is significantly reduced, I would try feeding
the antenna with twin-lead to a matching network located on the roof.
That way, the coax would always be functioning as designed.
In that case, a common mode choke at the load-end of the coax might also
help to further reduce coax shield radiation.
Something to consider.
Hope you find the fix!! :-]
N1BBR




-- 
 bw...@fastmail.net

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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Walter Underwood]

Adobe Reader can print PDF with multiple pages on one sheet of paper. Try 3 per 
sheet or 6 per sheet.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 9:10 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Mon,9/28/2015 8:49 AM, P.J.Hicks wrote:
>> Is there a more "printer friendly" copy of that information?
> 
> Sorry, no. Perhaps when I have time I'll do it.
> 
> Thanks and 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Ken makes a pertinent comment;  "the DSP does all the rest". Suggested 
filters are roofing filters and serve a function of signal path and how 
signals outside of the DSP bandwidth can affect the receive 
performance.  Receiver selectivity is actually accomplished by the DSP 
engine.  Regarding the function of roofing filters, I suggest reading 
material such as: 
http://www.sherweng.com/documents/NC0B-Contest-U-2008-9.pdf Although a 
slide presentation, the information is clearly definable and explains 
the use and the application of roofing filters.


If one is not anticipating CW contest operation nor has a station nearby 
physically that would be on the same band at the same time, then it is a 
good likelihood that no additional filter is required. As some have 
pointed out, understand that operationally the roofing filter is 
selected based on the DSP bandwidth selection.  If one chooses to 
operate CW with a 500 Hz DSP BW, the 400 Hz roofing filter would not be 
in the signal path.  Changing the DSP BW to 400 Hz or less will switch 
the 400 Hz roofing filter into the signal path.  This would then make it 
more understandable why a very narrow roofing filter might not be 
advisable unless the need actually exists.


Every one has their personal preferences based on their specific 
operation, physical location and proximity to other stations operating 
on the same band and a host of other effects.   In my case, I choose the 
6.0 kHz filter because I do operate some AM, the standard 2.7 kHz 
filter, the optional 1.8 kHz filter for SSB and the 500 Hz filter for 
digital modes and CW. In another of my radios I do have a 300 Hz 
roofing filter.  I find reducing the DSP bandwidth to 300 Hz to allow 
this filter to be selected is typically too tight for my operating 
preferences.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/28/2015 10:53 AM, Kenneth Christiansen wrote:

Hi to the Gang

This is a subjective question but after using a 500 hz and 200 hz filter for 7 
years I ordered a 400 filter for my K3s. The main reason is it works well for 
both CW and RTTY and of course the DSP does all the rest. I also ordered a 2.1 
khz filter so if I go past 400 hz I get that one. It works well for me but this 
is just my opinion.

Ken W0CZw0cz at i29 dot net



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Don't forget eclipse

[Phil Wheeler]

I have an Yaesu FT-857(?) with a remotable head. 
Rig can go elsewhere, only the head needs to be up 
front.


Hmm .. not sure how to do that with a K3, and the 
Yaesu is still in our CR-V. HF antenna on the 
Prius is more of a challenge than rig mounting.


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/28/15 8:47 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

Heh.  Nice mental image, Phil.  The Prius must've looked like a
porcupine, but one that works all bands / all modes.

The Civic does well with one VHF FM xcvr for APRS / voice and a KX3.
My XYL won't allow "full use" of the passenger seating area for added
radios, but I suppose some of these could be trunk-mounted like the
KXPA100.

On the road to Cedar City, UT.

73,
matt
w6NIA

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:53:22 -0700, you wrote:


Don't give up too easily, Matt. Saw a Prius a
month ago with five antennas mounted. Since I have
a Prius, I was pretty amazed!

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/28/15 6:21 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:

I *wish* I could fit the K3 into mobile ops, but the car is a Honda
Civic with severe space limitations.

73,
matt
W6NIA


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[Elecraft] Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,9/27/2015 10:37 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:



  > Often the requirements of one system will be at odds with other >
grounding requirements. For instance you generally want a high > 
impedance for RFI issues and a very low impedance for lightning > 
grounds. One system defeats the other so they really need to be 
separate systems.



NO, NO, NO, NO!

   [Fred Townsend] Well yes maybe. How do you bond a ferrite choke? 
Are not all chokes high impedance at their intended useful frequency? 
I said 'system' not 'ground'.


[K9YC]

Huh? Chokes are used on SIGNAL lines, NOT on bonding conductors. A
fundamental requirement of bonding is that it be LOW IMPEDANCE, so, in 
general, bonding conductors should not be choked. Further, lightning 
is NOT a DC event, it is an RF event. It's an impulse, with broad 
energy peak around 1 MHz.


[Fred Townsend] Correct on all scores
Jim I think you have tunnel vision on bonding. Jim as others suggested 
this was really an EMI issue and I was addressing this as a system or 
EMI issue.


The bonding methods I have outlined in my tutorial are specifically 
designed to satisfy both EMI and lightning protection. Proper bonding 
for NEC is NOT in conflict with noise free operation of ANY system, 
whether it be audio, video, or radio.


In this case chokes are appropriate for signal AND power cords 
containing neutral. I don't believe anyone suggested chokes on bonding 
conductors. However you suggested everything should be bonded and I 
merely asked how you bond a choke.


I said that ALL GROUNDS and GROUNDED equipment must be bonded together. 
A choke is neither.


Signal cables and power cables are NOT bonding conductors.  Bonding 
refers to those conductors that provide a dedicated, robust, low 
impedance connection between all grounded elements of premises wiring. 
Bonding conductors are those which connect together all equipment in a 
station, all earth electrodes in a premises. This includes but is not 
limited to the EARTH connections for CATV, Telco, satellite dishes, 
mains power. It also includes those used for antennas where they enter a 
premises.  In simple terms, NEC (and the laws of physics) allow as many 
earth electrodes as we want, but they MUST all be bonded together.


Also the NEC as well as other codes prohibit tying neutral and safety 
(green wire) together.


Not quite!  NEC REQUIRES that neutral and green be bonded together at 
one, and ONLY one point in every SYSTEM, and, in general, requires that 
the bond be very close to the point where the system is established.  
[The word "system" here specifically refers to the wiring that 
distributes power in a facility, and to equipment connected to it.]  A 
"system" is established when the power enters a premises, and a bond is 
required there. In most premises, that's the only system. A system is 
also established by a transformer, as might be used in large buildings 
to run large loads, and by equipment like a UPS. In both examples, this 
does NOT require a new earth electrode, but rather a bond between 
neutral and green at that point.


The correct part of your statement is that NEC prohibits tying neutral 
and safety (green) together any place OTHER than where the system is 
established.


Two cases I called out in my four different parts of the system. So no 
you do not tie all grounds together.


You misunderstand the concepts. See the above.  All grounds MUST be 
bonded together.


Another important distinction -- a cable shield is not "grounded," and 
there is no virtue in doing so EXCEPT for lightning protection. The 
shield is properly connected to the shielding enclosure at each simply 
to make SHIELDING continuous, and thus make it effective. This is not a 
GROUND, it is a SHIELD connection. And in an unbalanced circuit (where 
the shield is the signal return), it is also signal return.


When we add a common mode choke to an antenna downlead, we are 
preventing common mode current on the cable shield. We bond the antenna 
shield to ground at the point of entry, and we bond that point of entry 
to a the building ground, but that is to protect the premises, NOT the 
antenna.  That cable shield is NOT a ground, it is a shield, and it is a 
signal return. That would work with a coax feedthrough, but it would not 
protect a rig connected to the antenna. To do that, we replace the 
feedthrough with a Polyphaser, which shorts the center conductor to the 
shield in the event of a strike.


Again, I strongly urge you and others who want to understand these 
concepts to study the links on my website, previously cited. Members of 
the AES Standards Committee Working Group on EMC spent YEARS in 
discussions that ultimately led to the understandings I've articulated. 
The members of the WG are all engineers, most with very broad background 
in everything from power systems to broadcasting to recording to live 
sound to RF systems. They included engineers from the BBC, ABC-TV, sound 
system consultants, equi

Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Mike Reublin NF4L]

Jim -

The discussions are not a burden at all. I enjoy them immensely, and consider 
them a valuable resource for my education. Please dont be annoyed.

73, Mike NF4L
> On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> And this question remains. When I spend MONTHS writing a tutorial on stuff 
> like this, and post a link to it in response to someone who obviously needs 
> to study it, why is it that the person won't take the time to read what I 
> have taken pains to write for their benefit? Instead, we burden the thousand 
> or so readers of this list with a long response that should not be necessary.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ___
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[Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Chuck Guenther]

This is an interesting discussion.

Before I purchased my K3 in 2008, I had become addicted to narrow 
selectivity with my previous rigs, and was routinely tuning the bands 
with cascaded 250 Hz filters.  Since I'm nearly 100 pct. CW, I purchased 
a range of crystal roofing filters to try out in my K3.  I have the 700 
Hz (special order), 400, 250 and 200 Hz filters.  I'm primarily a low 
band DX'er and like the flexibility of all these filters ahead of the 
K3's marvelous IF DSP variable filter in order to deal with varying band 
conditions.


Lately, though, I've been using the 700 Hz and 400 Hz roofing filters 
almost exclusively.   The K-3's DSP APF does a great job in peaking up 
stations near the noise level.


I also employ the DXE NCC-1 noise cancelling unit with optional matched 
receive bandpass filters installed for my favorite DX bands.  This unit 
provides additional attenuation and really helps augment the K3's 
already super dynamic range.


73,
Chuck  NI0C
KX1, K2-10, K-3, P-3

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[Elecraft] [K1] Want K1 Tilt Stand

[William Redfearn]

Looking for a K1 Tilt Stand.
Looks like Elecraft no longer sells this option.
Anyone have one to let go?
 73, 
Dave Redfearn
ARS N4ELM  Lafayette, LAQRL? de N4ELM/qrp 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S Proper Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/28/2015 9:35 AM, dw wrote:

If a tuner is located at the rig-side of the coax, and the coax is at
high SWR, it could possibly be a cause for coax radiation.


It doesn't work that way.

Radiation from coax is the result of IMBALANCE in the antenna. A ferrite 
common mode choke at the feedpoint can fix that.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Again and again, we all encounter signal conditions where a very weak
wanted signal is close to a very loud unwanted signal. For this the
best filter setup is where BOTH the roofing and the DSP filters are at the
desired operating bandwidth.

That is why for CW contesting, in pure self-defense, the 400 and 250 8 pole
roofing filters are defined as 450 and 350 respectively. 450 is a "running"
bandwidth for 500 Hz separation that recognizes that many answerers to our
CQ's do not have the ears for getting close to frequency.

When up and down loud signals get too close, dropping to 350 Hz width and
using shift will help enormously without losing too much of the space
for up and down callers.

Additionally, I make sure that the filter offsets are set so the minus 30
dB points of the two filters coincide.  The desired effect is that when you
tune away from an unwanted signal, at the passband edge it falls off like a
ball slowly rolled off a table.

This procedure finally made the K3 selectivity as sharp as my MP with the
Inrad 8 and 455 filters.

One does NOT have to treat the roofing filter as if it is not involved in
selectivity. Quite the contrary, as when a certain 40m Italian station is
35 over 9 up 350 Hz and I am being called by a QRP station using a wet
noodle antenna on his basement floor, who is well down in the S2 noise, who
also insists on adding /QRP to the end of his call.

This becomes more and more important as these RX improvements keep
shrinking what we thought was incoming noise and we hear ever weaker
signals. Turning the edge of roofer plus DSP into a knife is VERY useful.

73, Guy K2AV

On Monday, September 28, 2015, Bob McGraw - K4TAX 
wrote:

> Ken makes a pertinent comment;  "the DSP does all the rest". Suggested
> filters are roofing filters and serve a function of signal path and how
> signals outside of the DSP bandwidth can affect the receive performance.
> Receiver selectivity is actually accomplished by the DSP engine.
>


-- 
Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Want K1 Tilt Stand

[Jessie Oberreuter]

 If you're looking for something that will raise the front of your K1, 
but you don't need something that tilts it more than 45 degrees vertical, 
I've been extremely happy with 'Laptop Legs' from LapWorks.  The grey 
color is a perfect match!



On Mon, 28 Sep 2015, William Redfearn wrote:


Looking for a K1 Tilt Stand.
Looks like Elecraft no longer sells this option.
Anyone have one to let go?
 73, 
Dave Redfearn
ARS N4ELM  Lafayette, LAQRL? de N4ELM/qrp 
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[David Cole]

Hi Mike,
I understand it is a roofing filter...  I have a number of hams, (5),
all within 1.5 miles of me, I need the roofing filter to remove them
during contests...  :)
-- 
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net

For MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
For Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
For MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info


On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 12:13 -0400, Mike Reublin NF4L wrote:
> The filters you guys are discussing are roofing filters. The filtering you're 
> thinking about is done digitally, and is continuously variable. The K3s  
> isn't your Dad's analog rig.  
> 
> Here's an Elecraft article explaining roofing filters. 
> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/Roofing_Filters.htm
> 
> 73, Mike NF4L
> 
> 
> > On Sep 28, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Kenneth Christiansen  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi to the Gang
> > 
> > This is a subjective question but after using a 500 hz and 200 hz filter 
> > for 7 years I ordered a 400 filter for my K3s. The main reason is it works 
> > well for both CW and RTTY and of course the DSP does all the rest. I also 
> > ordered a 2.1 khz filter so if I go past 400 hz I get that one. It works 
> > well for me but this is just my opinion.
> > 
> > Ken W0CZw0cz at i29 dot net
> > 
> > Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >> On Sep 28, 2015, at 10:18 AM, David Cole  wrote:
> >> 
> >> For MixW support see;
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> >> For Dopplergram information see:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> >> For MM-SSTV see:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 07:57 -0700, dw wrote:
> >>> Hello gang,
> >>> Just ordered my first K3.
> >>> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
> >>> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
> >>> 
> >>> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
> >>> CW.
> >>> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
> >>> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
> >>> occasional rag-chews.
> >>> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
> >>> 
> >>> Many thanks in advance
> >>> N1BBR :-]
> >> 
> >> __
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> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to w...@i29.net
> >> 
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
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> > Message delivered to n...@comcast.net
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Kenneth Talbott]

Tried direct response but Mr. Brown doesn't accept email from just anyone.

Several years ago the NEC relaxed the requirement that safety ground and
neutral be connected at only one place.  Now you may leave the bonding screw
in place in remote panels.

Ken - ke4rg

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 12:37 PM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] Grounding

On Sun,9/27/2015 10:37 PM, Fred Townsend wrote:
>
>
>   > Often the requirements of one system will be at odds with other > 
> grounding requirements. For instance you generally want a high > 
> impedance for RFI issues and a very low impedance for lightning > 
> grounds. One system defeats the other so they really need to be 
> separate systems.

> NO, NO, NO, NO!
>
>[Fred Townsend] Well yes maybe. How do you bond a ferrite choke? 
> Are not all chokes high impedance at their intended useful frequency? 
> I said 'system' not 'ground'.
>
> [K9YC]
>
> Huh? Chokes are used on SIGNAL lines, NOT on bonding conductors. A 
> fundamental requirement of bonding is that it be LOW IMPEDANCE, so, in 
> general, bonding conductors should not be choked. Further, lightning 
> is NOT a DC event, it is an RF event. It's an impulse, with broad 
> energy peak around 1 MHz.
>
> [Fred Townsend] Correct on all scores
> Jim I think you have tunnel vision on bonding. Jim as others suggested 
> this was really an EMI issue and I was addressing this as a system or 
> EMI issue.

The bonding methods I have outlined in my tutorial are specifically designed
to satisfy both EMI and lightning protection. Proper bonding for NEC is NOT
in conflict with noise free operation of ANY system, whether it be audio,
video, or radio.

> In this case chokes are appropriate for signal AND power cords 
> containing neutral. I don't believe anyone suggested chokes on bonding 
> conductors. However you suggested everything should be bonded and I 
> merely asked how you bond a choke.

I said that ALL GROUNDS and GROUNDED equipment must be bonded together. 
A choke is neither.

Signal cables and power cables are NOT bonding conductors.  Bonding refers
to those conductors that provide a dedicated, robust, low impedance
connection between all grounded elements of premises wiring. 
Bonding conductors are those which connect together all equipment in a
station, all earth electrodes in a premises. This includes but is not
limited to the EARTH connections for CATV, Telco, satellite dishes, mains
power. It also includes those used for antennas where they enter a premises.
In simple terms, NEC (and the laws of physics) allow as many earth
electrodes as we want, but they MUST all be bonded together.

> Also the NEC as well as other codes prohibit tying neutral and safety 
> (green wire) together.

Not quite!  NEC REQUIRES that neutral and green be bonded together at one,
and ONLY one point in every SYSTEM, and, in general, requires that the bond
be very close to the point where the system is established.  
[The word "system" here specifically refers to the wiring that distributes
power in a facility, and to equipment connected to it.]  A "system" is
established when the power enters a premises, and a bond is required there.
In most premises, that's the only system. A system is also established by a
transformer, as might be used in large buildings to run large loads, and by
equipment like a UPS. In both examples, this does NOT require a new earth
electrode, but rather a bond between neutral and green at that point.

The correct part of your statement is that NEC prohibits tying neutral and
safety (green) together any place OTHER than where the system is
established.

> Two cases I called out in my four different parts of the system. So no 
> you do not tie all grounds together.

You misunderstand the concepts. See the above.  All grounds MUST be bonded
together.

Another important distinction -- a cable shield is not "grounded," and there
is no virtue in doing so EXCEPT for lightning protection. The shield is
properly connected to the shielding enclosure at each simply to make
SHIELDING continuous, and thus make it effective. This is not a GROUND, it
is a SHIELD connection. And in an unbalanced circuit (where the shield is
the signal return), it is also signal return.

When we add a common mode choke to an antenna downlead, we are preventing
common mode current on the cable shield. We bond the antenna shield to
ground at the point of entry, and we bond that point of entry to a the
building ground, but that is to protect the premises, NOT the antenna.  That
cable shield is NOT a ground, it is a shield, and it is a signal return.
That would work with a coax feedthrough, but it would not protect a rig
connected to the antenna. To do that, we replace the feedthrough with a
Polyphaser, which shorts the center conductor to the shield in the event of
a strike.

Again, I strongly ur

Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

I would think it best to get the K3S and see how it performs before 
throwing money at a problem that may not actually exist.  Adding filters 
if and as needed is rather simple.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/28/2015 1:15 PM, David Cole wrote:

Hi Mike,
I understand it is a roofing filter...  I have a number of hams, (5),
all within 1.5 miles of me, I need the roofing filter to remove them
during contests...:)



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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> What filter do you find you use the most and why?

The 400 Hz filter as it works well for both CW and RTTY.

If I were not so concerned about RTTY, I would consider the
*INRAD* 500 Hz (8 pole) filter for CW along with the 200 Hz
(5 pole) Elecraft filter for times when adjacent signals are
just too strong (I already have the 200 Hz filters).

For SSB, I believe the stock 2700 Hz is more than satisfactory.
The improvement from the 2800 Hz [8 pole] filter does not justify
the "exchange price" - the savings from sticking to the stock
2700 Hz filter can be used for the 400 Hz CW filter or to *add*
either an 1800 Hz or 2100 Hz "narrow" SSB filter if needed.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/28/2015 10:57 AM, dw wrote:

Hello gang,
Just ordered my first K3.
I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
Want to wait and see what I really will need.

I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
CW.
What filter do you find you use the most and why?
I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
occasional rag-chews.
Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.

Many thanks in advance
N1BBR :-]


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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Ian - Ham]

PJ,

PowerPoint (or its open source equivalent) should allow you to print a 
"handout-style" document that puts 4-6 slides on a page. That could at least 
allow for a starting point, as you research and obtain more information.

73 de,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624, North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3# 281, P3 #688, KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of P.J.Hicks
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 11:49 AM
To: ELECRAFT 
Subject: [Elecraft] Grounding


Yesterday, Jim K9YC posted a link to a .pdf file dealing with shack grounding. 
It is obviously a slide presentation suitable for a group lecture. Is there a 
more "printer friendly" copy of that information? I like to print out and study 
things of that sort on paper and the slide style precludes doing that easily. 
  
Thanks, 
  
PJH, N7PXY
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---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Dan Atchison]

I'm with W4TV on the 5-pole 200 Hz  filter as my overall go to on close 
in CW sigs.  The 8-pole 250 Hz filter, which I also have, is actually 
about 350 Hz in width and way too wide for me.  That said, I use either 
a 500 Hz or 400 Hz filter most of the time on CW/RTTY


It is unfortunate that Elecraft no longer makes the 200 Hz filter.  Shame.

If I was going to get only one CW filter, it would probably be the 400 
Hz jobber.


73,
Dan

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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/28/2015 11:26 AM, Kenneth Talbott wrote:

Several years ago the NEC relaxed the requirement that safety ground and
neutral be connected at only one place.  Now you may leave the bonding screw
in place in remote panels.


NO! NO! NO!

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/28/2015 11:35 AM, Ian - Ham wrote:

PowerPoint (or its open source equivalent) should allow you to print a 
"handout-style" document that puts 4-6 slides on a page.


Thanks Ian. I don't have a full copy of Acrobat that I can put on this 
computer, so I use Libre Office or Open Office to generate pdf files. 
Those programs only generate pdf files with slides, one to a page. When 
I was still in biz, I bought full Acrobat and put it on my working 
computer. That did allow me to print multiple slides per page, and I 
used it a lot.


There's another issue with printing -- the background color for the 
slides, which burns a lot of ink. The roots of this Power Point are 
quite old, before I realized the printing issue, and it's a LOT of work 
to change because many of the slides are complex, with lots of labels 
inserted to make them visible at the back of the room.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Best way to make comparative antenna signal strength measurements using K3 (and P3)

[drewko]

Well, this is not quick and dirty, but FWIW...

WSPRnet is great for antenna comparisons. Write a script to switch your 
K3 between the two antennas at frequent known intervals. Run it over the 
course of days or weeks and you will have literally thousands of signal 
reports which, if you know what times each antenna was switched in, you 
can compare as you like in a spreadsheet. Compare signals strengths; 
number of stations worked with each antenna; geographics areas, band 
performance, etc.


I did this when switching from an outdoor antenna that I would soon have 
to take down to a multi-band indoor antenna, wondering what deficit the 
indoor ant might have on various bands and how much increase in power I 
might need to overcome it. (I had a K3/10 at the time and was 
considering the 100 watt PA).


Anyhow, you can't beat WSPR for antenna comparisons.

73,
Drew
AF2Z




On 09/28/15 10:39, Bill Conwell wrote:

I'd like to do some quick and dirty comparing of antenna output signals
using my K3 (and/or P3).



(I've got two antennas I'd like to compare using different received carrier
signals - e.g., from a neighbor's TX, W1AW RTTY bulletins, etc.)



I see that the K3 can display the RMS value of receiver AF output (mVp-p),
unaffected by AF GAIN control.  And after that stabilizes, I can also get
dbV to display.  (How long is the stabilization period?  Does the display
sample and hold a single value, or is it averaged and continuously updated?
It seems like the former.)



Is this the way to go, or is there something I can do with the P3 that will
give a readout in dBm?  (I guess I could make a rough graphical measurement
by setting the P3 display threshold to match the weaker signal, then
switching to the stronger signal, and seeing how far above that threshold it
rises - with Scaling maximized.)



I know there's also W8WWW's S-Meter Lite, with which I've also dabbled -
presenting a digital S-meter, or relative dB, output.  (Or I could do a step
attenuator approach, but then I couldn't compare by simply flicking the
antenna switch, and QSB would be a problem.)



Thoughts?



Tnx,



/Bill, K2PO

Portland, OR


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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Alan]

On 09/28/2015 01:19 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Mon,9/28/2015 11:26 AM, Kenneth Talbott wrote:

Several years ago the NEC relaxed the requirement that safety ground and
neutral be connected at only one place.  Now you may leave the bonding
screw
in place in remote panels.


NO! NO! NO!


Literally as we speak, there is an electrician outside in the middle of 
a major re-wiring job at my house.  So I asked him and he said that 
under certain conditions the NEC does allow grounding the neutral wire 
in an outbuilding.


In my case, he is not doing that in my outbuilding.  He says it is 
always better to tie neutral and ground only at the service entrance if 
possible.


Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,9/28/2015 11:26 AM, Kenneth Talbott wrote:

Several years ago the NEC relaxed the requirement that safety ground and
neutral be connected at only one place.  Now you may leave the bonding screw
in place in remote panels.


http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/grounding-and-bonding-part-2-3

The link above is from Mike Holt, widely considered an authority on 
electrical codes. He makes his living teaching and writing about the 
topic. This is part of his review of revisions to Article 250, Grounding 
and Bonding, that appeared in the 2011 code. In the very last paragraph, 
are these words:


"As a rule, the neutral should never be connected to the enclosure or 
equipment grounding conductor anywhere except in the service disconnects 
and the secondary side of separately derived systems. Objectionable 
neutral current presents a real danger and can damage equipment as well 
as cause fires and electric shock or electrocution."


For all practical purposes, the 2011 code is the most recent, because it 
usually takes 5-6 years for local authorities to adopt a revision.  Upon 
reading your email, I reviewed a draft of the 2014 code, and the 
requirement for one, and only one, neutral to ground bond is still part 
of it.


The only "remote panel" in which a bond would be permitted between 
neutral and ground is one in a second building where ground is not 
carried between buildings, or when the remote panel is for a "separately 
derived system." A system is separately derived when fed by a 
transformer. The practice of not carrying ground between buildings no 
longer permitted, but is grandfathered in existing installations from 
earlier versions of NEC.


73, Jim K9YC

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[Elecraft] Announcing New Editions of the KE7X KX3 Books:

[Cady, Fred]

As the Elecraft products have expanded and diversified, so have the KE7X books. 
 Here is what is now available for the KX-Line.  See 
www.ke7x.com for lots more information.

1.  “The Elecraft KX-Line, The Complete Station, The KX3, KXPA100, PX3 and 
KX3-2M/4M”
This is the second edition of the 8.5”x11” coil-bound version that adds 
coverage of the KXPA100 amplifier and antenna tuner, the PX3 panadapter, and 
the KX3-2M/4M VHF transverter.  All information is updated to KX3 firmware 
2.34, PX3 firmware 1.25, and KPA100 firmware 1.35.  This book is available as a 
spiral bound, printed copy from www.elecraft.com (part 
number E740241).  It is available in pdf form from 
www.ke7x.com and www.lulu.com.  For 
more information and to view the table of contents, see 
www.ke7x.com.

2.   “The Portable Elecraft KX3, Second Edition, Going for the Summit with the 
KX3 and KX3-2M/4M”
This updated Second Edition of the 6”x9” portable version includes the 
KX3-2M/4M VHF Transverter.  This edition supports the traveler/backpacker and 
fits into a Rose’s Covers KX3 case for travelling.  All information is updated 
to KX3 firmware 2.34.  This book is available as a spiral bound, printed copy 
from www.elecraft.com (part number E740242). For more 
information and to view the table of contents, see 
www.ke7x.com.

 3.  “The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverter – Assembling the KX3-Line 
Station”
This covers the KXPA100 amplifier and tuner, the PX3 panadapter, and the 2M/4M 
transverter. It is aimed at those who purchase “The Portable Elecraft KX3” for 
backpacking and travelling and who have the amplifier and panadapter at home.  
For a description and table of contents, see www.ke7x.com. 
   This book is available as a spiral bound, printed copy only at 
www.lulu.com (search for Elecraft).  It is available in 
pdf form from www.ke7x.com and 
www.lulu.com.

(Note that the combination of “The Portable Elecraft KX3” plus “The Elecraft 
KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M” is equivalent to “The Elecraft KX-Line.”)

4.  PDF electronic versions are available for “The Elecraft KX-Line” and “The 
Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverter.  The PDF versions have all the 
material the printed versions have but do not have the comprehensive index 
because electronic readers can use their search function easier than looking 
things up in an index.  Purchasers of the electronic version may make a backup 
and hard copy for themselves.

Which books should I buy?
“I travel a lot with my KX3 and use it with the KX-Line components when I am at 
home.”  Consider “The Elecraft KX-Line” for use at home and the PDF version for 
on-the-road.  Or if you would like a printed manual on-the-road, consider “The 
Portable Elecraft KX3” plus “The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverter” 
for use at home.
“I don’t do any travelling and just have a QRP KX3 station at home.”   Your 
best bet is “The Elecraft KX-Line” book in case you ever want to upgrade to any 
of the KX-Line components (especially the PX3).
“I have a full KX-Line station in my motorhome.”  Choose “The Elecraft KX-Line” 
in printed or PDF form.
“I have the first edition of “The Elecraft KX3 – Going for the Summit.  What is 
the best way for me to update my information.”  “The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 
2M/4M” is designed to do just that.  The other changes from the first edition 
that the new books cover are, for the most part, minor editing and 
documentation of firmware changes.

Where can I purchase these book?
“The Elecraft KX-Line, The Complete Station”:  Printed copy:  
www.elecraft.com PN E740242, PDF: 
www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com
“The Portable Elecraft KX3, Second Edition”:  Printed copy: 
www.elecraft.com PN E740242
“The Elecraft KXPA100, PX3 and 2M/4M Transverter”:  Printed copy: 
www.lulu.com, PDF: www.ke7x.com or 
www.lulu.com

Many thanks to all of you who currently have a KE7X book.

73,
Fred KE7X



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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Kenneth Talbott]

Yes NEC 2008 250.32B EXCEPTION is that to which I refer

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.   Socrates


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 5:30 PM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

On Mon,9/28/2015 11:26 AM, Kenneth Talbott wrote:
> Several years ago the NEC relaxed the requirement that safety ground 
> and neutral be connected at only one place.  Now you may leave the 
> bonding screw in place in remote panels.

http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/grounding-and-bonding-part-2-3

The link above is from Mike Holt, widely considered an authority on
electrical codes. He makes his living teaching and writing about the topic.
This is part of his review of revisions to Article 250, Grounding and
Bonding, that appeared in the 2011 code. In the very last paragraph, are
these words:

"As a rule, the neutral should never be connected to the enclosure or
equipment grounding conductor anywhere except in the service disconnects and
the secondary side of separately derived systems. Objectionable neutral
current presents a real danger and can damage equipment as well as cause
fires and electric shock or electrocution."

For all practical purposes, the 2011 code is the most recent, because it
usually takes 5-6 years for local authorities to adopt a revision.  Upon
reading your email, I reviewed a draft of the 2014 code, and the requirement
for one, and only one, neutral to ground bond is still part of it.

The only "remote panel" in which a bond would be permitted between neutral
and ground is one in a second building where ground is not carried between
buildings, or when the remote panel is for a "separately derived system." A
system is separately derived when fed by a transformer. The practice of not
carrying ground between buildings no longer permitted, but is grandfathered
in existing installations from earlier versions of NEC.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Grounding

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - This is now treading into more personal comments. We're also past the 
limit for single, slightly off-topic, postings. Thread closed.


Please keep it polite and respectful, as if having a pleasant get together with 
friends in your living room face to face.


73,
Eric
List Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 9/28/2015 2:45 PM, Kenneth Talbott wrote:

Yes NEC 2008 250.32B EXCEPTION is that to which I refer

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.   Socrates



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Don't forget eclipse

[Al Gulseth]

PorcuPrius?

73, Al

On Mon September 28 2015 10:47:57 am Matt Zilmer wrote:
> Heh.  Nice mental image, Phil.  The Prius must've looked like a
> porcupine, but one that works all bands / all modes.
>
> The Civic does well with one VHF FM xcvr for APRS / voice and a KX3.
> My XYL won't allow "full use" of the passenger seating area for added
> radios, but I suppose some of these could be trunk-mounted like the
> KXPA100.
>
> On the road to Cedar City, UT.
>
> 73,
> matt
> w6NIA
>
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:53:22 -0700, you wrote:
> >Don't give up too easily, Matt. Saw a Prius a
> >month ago with five antennas mounted. Since I have
> >a Prius, I was pretty amazed!
> >
> >73, Phil W7OX
> >
> >On 9/28/15 6:21 AM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> >> I *wish* I could fit the K3 into mobile ops, but the car is a Honda
> >> Civic with severe space limitations.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> matt
> >> W6NIA
> >
> >__
> >Elecraft mailing list
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> >Message delivered to mzil...@roadrunner.com
>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> --
> "Always store beer in a dark place."  -R. Heinlein
>
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[Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Douglas Hagerman]

Does anybody have a “worked example” of how to use the L and C values reported 
by the K1 internal antenna tuner to analyze an antenna? I feel pretty guilty 
asking this, because it’s sort of a “please help me do my homework” question. 
And I am supposed to know how to do this homework.  :-)

I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 tuner 
will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or no 
balun, at the antenna.

If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight reading 
suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide so 
little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could 
240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?

Next, I need to figure out the circuit. If the tuner reports nt 2, I think that 
means that the coil is next to the tuner’s antenna connector, and the 
capacitance is in parallel with the radio connector. I guess that is designed 
to be 50 ohms of pure resistance, so I have a nice little circuit with one of 
each part. I can figure out the various reactances, etc., and combine them, but 
am not sure I’m doing it right. That should give me the reactance at the 
tuner’s antenna connector.

Then I have about 12 feet of RG-8x coax, so I can use a Smith chart to work out 
how the reactance at the tuners’s antenna connector is transformed to the 
antenna connection, but there is always the confusion about which way to go 
around the outside of the chart. And then take into account the 4:1 balun 
that’s on there. In theory, all of this should tell me the antenna's impedance 
at the point where the balun connects, which should suggest whether it would be 
better to use a 1:1 balun instead.

Does anybody have an example of this sort of calculation? I have looked in the 
Antenna Handbook and other sources and they all dance around it; I’m looking 
for something practical and cookbook-like.

Or I could spring for a 1:1 balun and try it.  :-)

Thanks!

Doug, W0UHU.


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[Elecraft] Re [K1] Want K1 Tilt Stand

[Douglas Hagerman]

I made a stand using some aluminum fencing wire. It’s pretty large gauge, about 
1/8” in diameter. It bends in about 1/8” at each end (very short so as to not 
touch anything inside) and depends on the springiness of the wire to stay in 
the holes. Then it angles down, then forward, then across to the other side. 
The whole thing rotates backwards and fits flush against the bottom of the 
radio when not in use, and it raises the front by about 2” when it’s lowered 
for use. Works great, cheap, essentially zero weight.  :-)

Doug, w0uhu.



Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:25:21 + (UTC)
From: William Redfearn mailto:n4...@bellsouth.net>>
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net " 
mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>>
Subject: [Elecraft] [K1] Want K1 Tilt Stand
Message-ID:
<1609975716.1673894.1443461121479.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com 
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Looking for a K1 Tilt Stand.
Looks like Elecraft no longer sells this option.
Anyone have one to let go?
?73,?
Dave Redfearn
ARS?N4ELM? Lafayette, LAQRL? de N4ELM/qrp?
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Don Wilhelm]

Doug,

I think you are "doing it the hard way", but what you have proposed 
along with some math will result in the correct information to give you 
the impedance at the shack end of your feedline.  That is if and only if 
the KAT1 tuner has tuned to an SWR=1.


To figure the impedance at your antenna feedpoint, you will have to know 
the type of feedline as well as its length and feed that information 
into the formulas or an application such as TLW - (transmission line for 
windows).


The easier way is to beg, borrow or steal an antenna analyzer and 
measure the impedance at the shack end of the feedline.  You will still 
need to apply the feedline parameters to determine the antenna 
impedance, and the feedline will act as an impedance transformer.


BTW, 24x10 is 240pF.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/28/2015 7:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman wrote:

Does anybody have a “worked example” of how to use the L and C values reported 
by the K1 internal antenna tuner to analyze an antenna? I feel pretty guilty 
asking this, because it’s sort of a “please help me do my homework” question. 
And I am supposed to know how to do this homework.  :-)

I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 tuner 
will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or no 
balun, at the antenna.

If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight reading 
suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide so 
little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could 
240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?

Next, I need to figure out the circuit. If the tuner reports nt 2, I think that 
means that the coil is next to the tuner’s antenna connector, and the 
capacitance is in parallel with the radio connector. I guess that is designed 
to be 50 ohms of pure resistance, so I have a nice little circuit with one of 
each part. I can figure out the various reactances, etc., and combine them, but 
am not sure I’m doing it right. That should give me the reactance at the 
tuner’s antenna connector.

Then I have about 12 feet of RG-8x coax, so I can use a Smith chart to work out 
how the reactance at the tuners’s antenna connector is transformed to the 
antenna connection, but there is always the confusion about which way to go 
around the outside of the chart. And then take into account the 4:1 balun 
that’s on there. In theory, all of this should tell me the antenna's impedance 
at the point where the balun connects, which should suggest whether it would be 
better to use a 1:1 balun instead.

Does anybody have an example of this sort of calculation? I have looked in the 
Antenna Handbook and other sources and they all dance around it; I’m looking 
for something practical and cookbook-like.

Or I could spring for a 1:1 balun and try it.  :-)

Thanks!

Doug, W0UHU.


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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Byron Servies]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
 wrote:

>
> I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 
> tuner
> will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or no 
> balun,
> at the antenna.
>

Are you feeding the antenna with coax or ladder line?

Even a low dipole will have a feed point impedance of roughly 75 ohm,
so 1:1 would be fine with coax.  You may want to consider a current
choke at the feed point, but that's up to you.

With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.

> If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight reading
> suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide 
> so
> little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could
> 240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?

Xc = 1/(2 * pi * 14 x 10^6 * 240 x 10^-12) ~~ 47.

So, the tuner thinks it is seeing roughly 50 + j47 and needs -47 of
capacitance to balance it out, right?  I'd go with the 1:1.

73, Byron N6NUL
-- 
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Douglas Hagerman]

Unfortunately, the other part of my compromised situation is the shack 
location, which is at the other end of the apartment from the balcony. So I’m 
going to need 100 feet of coax to get to the radio. (Wife does not approve of 
radios in the living room!) That’s why I want to try to get the feedpoint 
impedance as close to correct as possible.

On the other hand, I’m on the 7th floor, with a reasonably clear view of the 
Atlantic ocean looking to the south. New Bedford, Massachusetts.  :-)

Doug.




> On 28Sep, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Byron Servies  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
>  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 
>> tuner
>> will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or 
>> no balun,
>> at the antenna.
>> 
> 
> Are you feeding the antenna with coax or ladder line?
> 
> Even a low dipole will have a feed point impedance of roughly 75 ohm,
> so 1:1 would be fine with coax.  You may want to consider a current
> choke at the feed point, but that's up to you.
> 
> With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
> match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.
> 
>> If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight 
>> reading
>> suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide 
>> so
>> little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could
>> 240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?
> 
> Xc = 1/(2 * pi * 14 x 10^6 * 240 x 10^-12) ~~ 47.
> 
> So, the tuner thinks it is seeing roughly 50 + j47 and needs -47 of
> capacitance to balance it out, right?  I'd go with the 1:1.
> 
> 73, Byron N6NUL
> -- 
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org

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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Don Wilhelm]

On 9/28/2015 8:02 PM, Byron Servies wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
 wrote:

With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to 
match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.


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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Byron Servies]

Sorry, I should have said "none" instead of "1:1".  You don't appear to need it.

I also have a very compromised installation, but better now than a
dipole. And, yes, a tidy installation does us a shocking amount of
coax!

Good luck,

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Byron Servies  wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
>  wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 
>> tuner
>> will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or 
>> no balun,
>> at the antenna.
>>
>
> Are you feeding the antenna with coax or ladder line?
>
> Even a low dipole will have a feed point impedance of roughly 75 ohm,
> so 1:1 would be fine with coax.  You may want to consider a current
> choke at the feed point, but that's up to you.
>
> With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
> match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.
>
>> If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight 
>> reading
>> suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide 
>> so
>> little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could
>> 240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?
>
> Xc = 1/(2 * pi * 14 x 10^6 * 240 x 10^-12) ~~ 47.
>
> So, the tuner thinks it is seeing roughly 50 + j47 and needs -47 of
> capacitance to balance it out, right?  I'd go with the 1:1.

-- 
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Doug Person]

Sounds like a great use for a remote tuner. (sure wish Elecraft would 
develop one).  I have an LDG Remote Tuner for tuning a 44' doublet in 
the attic of my town home.  Works great. 40 through 10 with acceptable 
SWR.  (unfortunately for me the noise floor isn't a floor - it's a 
skyscraper).


Doug -- K0DXV

On 9/28/2015 6:24 PM, Byron Servies wrote:

Sorry, I should have said "none" instead of "1:1".  You don't appear to need it.

I also have a very compromised installation, but better now than a
dipole. And, yes, a tidy installation does us a shocking amount of
coax!

Good luck,

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Byron Servies  wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
 wrote:


I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 tuner
will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or no 
balun,
at the antenna.


Are you feeding the antenna with coax or ladder line?

Even a low dipole will have a feed point impedance of roughly 75 ohm,
so 1:1 would be fine with coax.  You may want to consider a current
choke at the feed point, but that's up to you.

With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.


If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight reading
suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can provide so
little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could
240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?

Xc = 1/(2 * pi * 14 x 10^6 * 240 x 10^-12) ~~ 47.

So, the tuner thinks it is seeing roughly 50 + j47 and needs -47 of
capacitance to balance it out, right?  I'd go with the 1:1.


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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Don Wilhelm]

Sorry for the blank response.  Blame it on late night 'fumble fingers'.

While 'common logic' will say to match the antenna to the line 
impedance, that 'common logic' is flawed.


It certainly will be that a good common mode choke is all that is needed 
at the antenna feedpoint, and that is a 1:1 impedance transformation.
Its purpose is to keep common mode currents off the feedline and to keep 
the real radiation confined to the antenna.  That aspect is unchanged no 
matter whether the feedline is 50 ohms or 600 ohms.


The feedline will act as an impedance transformer no matter what (unless 
the feedline is exactly matched to the antenna feedpoint impedance).
Keep in mind that open wire transmission lines are low loss (that is 
important).


If you connect a 600 ohm open wire transmission line to a 'resonant' 
dipole having a nominal impedance between 50 and 75 ohms, that 
transmission line (even thought it has an SWR between 8 and 12) will 
have extremely low loss.  450 ohm ladder line and 300 ohm ladder line 
are similar, but will have higher loss than open wire line.


The real problem is to match the impedance of the shack end of the 
feedline to 50 ohms.  The transmission line will act as an impedance 
transformer, and depending on the length of the feedline and the 
frequency, the shack end may be vary between a very low impedance and a 
very high impedance.


In other words, attempting to use a 4:1 balun or a 1:1 balun (or any 
other ratio) at the antenna feedpoint may be an exercise in futility.  
It all depends on the feedline impedance transformation at the frequency 
of interest.  And that depends on the feedline length and the frequency.


One would use a 4:1 balun to match coax to an antenna feedpoint 
impedance of 200 to 300 ohms (folded dipole) or to a properly tuned OCF 
antenna, but for all other conditions, all bets are off unless you know 
the antenna feedpoint impedance of the antenna at all frequencies where 
you want to use it.


A study of the ARRL Handbook or ARRL Antenna Book section on 
transmission lines should provide you with more information.


73,
Don W3FPR

73,
Don W3FPR


On 9/28/2015 8:02 PM, Byron Servies wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
 wrote:

With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to 
match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.


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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Walter Underwood]

A 1:1 current balun could be very useful at rejecting nearby common-mode 
interference. At my house, that dropped the noise floor by about 6dB.

This is a good quality balun at a fair price. It says “QRP”, but it will handle 
300W at HF, 200W above 35MHz.

http://www.balundesigns.com/qrp-model-1110-1-1-isolation-choke-balun-1-54-mhz/ 


wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Byron Servies  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I should have said "none" instead of "1:1".  You don't appear to need 
> it.
> 
> I also have a very compromised installation, but better now than a
> dipole. And, yes, a tidy installation does us a shocking amount of
> coax!
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> 73, Byron N6NUL
> 
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Byron Servies  wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I have a space-limited dipole for 20 meters with drooping ends. The KAT-1 
>>> tuner
>>> will tune it. What I want to know is whether to use a 4:1 or 1:1 balun, or 
>>> no balun,
>>> at the antenna.
>>> 
>> 
>> Are you feeding the antenna with coax or ladder line?
>> 
>> Even a low dipole will have a feed point impedance of roughly 75 ohm,
>> so 1:1 would be fine with coax.  You may want to consider a current
>> choke at the feed point, but that's up to you.
>> 
>> With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
>> match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.
>> 
>>> If the tuner reports 24 “x10” pF, is that 240 pF or 2.4 pF? A straight 
>>> reading
>>> suggests that it’s 2.4 pF, but I don’t see how the tuner circuit can 
>>> provide so
>>> little capacitance. But C4 (82 pF) plus C5 (150 pF) gives 232 pF which could
>>> 240 pF if you include some parasitic capacitance, maybe?
>> 
>> Xc = 1/(2 * pi * 14 x 10^6 * 240 x 10^-12) ~~ 47.
>> 
>> So, the tuner thinks it is seeing roughly 50 + j47 and needs -47 of
>> capacitance to balance it out, right?  I'd go with the 1:1.
> 
> -- 
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Brian Hunt]

Another way to approach this problem is from the other end. I've had pretty 
good success using antenna simulation software, EZNEC, to estimate the feed 
point impedance of an antenna and then use TLW to simulate the rest of the 
chain to see what's going on. The key is to do as faithful simulation of the 
antenna as you can. 

EZNEC (a limited version) is on the ARRL Antenna Book CD.  

73,
Brian, K0DTJ
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Douglas Hagerman]

Hi Don.

Thanks for the comments!

There is a good article about all this in the June 2015 issue of QST. My 
problem is that I can’t use open line because I have to go 100 feet, threaded 
through apartment rooms, to get from the antenna to the radio. So it has to be 
coax, and as you say, the ideal situation would be to have a balanced signal at 
50 ohms at the antenna, connected to the coax, which would not be acting as a 
transformer because of the good match at the antenna end, and then feeding into 
the tuner which would say “good, it’s 50 ohms of resistive impedance at this 
end!” and not do anything.

Or I could throw a piece of wire off the balcony and hope that the pot-smoking 
hippie downstairs doesn’t freak out when he sees it.  :-)

Doug, W0UHU.




> On 28Sep, 2015, at 8:38 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the blank response.  Blame it on late night 'fumble fingers'.
> 
> While 'common logic' will say to match the antenna to the line impedance, 
> that 'common logic' is flawed.
> 
> It certainly will be that a good common mode choke is all that is needed at 
> the antenna feedpoint, and that is a 1:1 impedance transformation.
> Its purpose is to keep common mode currents off the feedline and to keep the 
> real radiation confined to the antenna.  That aspect is unchanged no matter 
> whether the feedline is 50 ohms or 600 ohms.
> 
> The feedline will act as an impedance transformer no matter what (unless the 
> feedline is exactly matched to the antenna feedpoint impedance).
> Keep in mind that open wire transmission lines are low loss (that is 
> important).
> 
> If you connect a 600 ohm open wire transmission line to a 'resonant' dipole 
> having a nominal impedance between 50 and 75 ohms, that transmission line 
> (even thought it has an SWR between 8 and 12) will have extremely low loss.  
> 450 ohm ladder line and 300 ohm ladder line are similar, but will have higher 
> loss than open wire line.
> 
> The real problem is to match the impedance of the shack end of the feedline 
> to 50 ohms.  The transmission line will act as an impedance transformer, and 
> depending on the length of the feedline and the frequency, the shack end may 
> be vary between a very low impedance and a very high impedance.
> 
> In other words, attempting to use a 4:1 balun or a 1:1 balun (or any other 
> ratio) at the antenna feedpoint may be an exercise in futility.  It all 
> depends on the feedline impedance transformation at the frequency of 
> interest.  And that depends on the feedline length and the frequency.
> 
> One would use a 4:1 balun to match coax to an antenna feedpoint impedance of 
> 200 to 300 ohms (folded dipole) or to a properly tuned OCF antenna, but for 
> all other conditions, all bets are off unless you know the antenna feedpoint 
> impedance of the antenna at all frequencies where you want to use it.
> 
> A study of the ARRL Handbook or ARRL Antenna Book section on transmission 
> lines should provide you with more information.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
> On 9/28/2015 8:02 PM, Byron Servies wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to match 
>> the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[John Pierce]

​Doug,

You might consider using a remote antenna tuner, like the SGC-230.  I 've
used them for several all band antenna's, horizontal and vertical, and they
have worked quite well for me.  Here is a link to some interesting and
thorough explanations and suggestions from SGC about various types and
considerations regarding all band antenna's incorporating a remote tuner at
the antenna feed point.

http://www.sgcworld.com/technicalInfoPage.html

A somewhat less expensive remote tuner is the GC-3000.  (I read somewhere
that this is the same as the MFJ remote tuner, but I'm not sure about
that.)  I own one of those and it works almost as well as the SGC tuner.
It just doesn't seem to have quite the matching range as the SGC tuner.
This means you might have more band segments with a 1.5:1 or 1.7:1 match
instead of a 1.1:1.

John K7KEY



On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Douglas Hagerman 
wrote:

> Hi Don.
>
> Thanks for the comments!
>
> There is a good article about all this in the June 2015 issue of QST. My
> problem is that I can’t use open line because I have to go 100 feet,
> threaded through apartment rooms, to get from the antenna to the radio. So
> it has to be coax, and as you say, the ideal situation would be to have a
> balanced signal at 50 ohms at the antenna, connected to the coax, which
> would not be acting as a transformer because of the good match at the
> antenna end, and then feeding into the tuner which would say “good, it’s 50
> ohms of resistive impedance at this end!” and not do anything.
>
> Or I could throw a piece of wire off the balcony and hope that the
> pot-smoking hippie downstairs doesn’t freak out when he sees it.  :-)
>
> Doug, W0UHU.
>
>
>
>
> > On 28Sep, 2015, at 8:38 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for the blank response.  Blame it on late night 'fumble fingers'.
> >
> > While 'common logic' will say to match the antenna to the line
> impedance, that 'common logic' is flawed.
> >
> > It certainly will be that a good common mode choke is all that is needed
> at the antenna feedpoint, and that is a 1:1 impedance transformation.
> > Its purpose is to keep common mode currents off the feedline and to keep
> the real radiation confined to the antenna.  That aspect is unchanged no
> matter whether the feedline is 50 ohms or 600 ohms.
> >
> > The feedline will act as an impedance transformer no matter what (unless
> the feedline is exactly matched to the antenna feedpoint impedance).
> > Keep in mind that open wire transmission lines are low loss (that is
> important).
> >
> > If you connect a 600 ohm open wire transmission line to a 'resonant'
> dipole having a nominal impedance between 50 and 75 ohms, that transmission
> line (even thought it has an SWR between 8 and 12) will have extremely low
> loss.  450 ohm ladder line and 300 ohm ladder line are similar, but will
> have higher loss than open wire line.
> >
> > The real problem is to match the impedance of the shack end of the
> feedline to 50 ohms.  The transmission line will act as an impedance
> transformer, and depending on the length of the feedline and the frequency,
> the shack end may be vary between a very low impedance and a very high
> impedance.
> >
> > In other words, attempting to use a 4:1 balun or a 1:1 balun (or any
> other ratio) at the antenna feedpoint may be an exercise in futility.  It
> all depends on the feedline impedance transformation at the frequency of
> interest.  And that depends on the feedline length and the frequency.
> >
> > One would use a 4:1 balun to match coax to an antenna feedpoint
> impedance of 200 to 300 ohms (folded dipole) or to a properly tuned OCF
> antenna, but for all other conditions, all bets are off unless you know the
> antenna feedpoint impedance of the antenna at all frequencies where you
> want to use it.
> >
> > A study of the ARRL Handbook or ARRL Antenna Book section on
> transmission lines should provide you with more information.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> >
> > On 9/28/2015 8:02 PM, Byron Servies wrote:
> >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Douglas Hagerman
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> With 450 or 300 ohm ladder line, a 4:1 would be more appropriate to
> match the feedline to the expected impedance of the K1 input.
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

I would agree that a 1:1 balun is preferable in as much as a center fed 
dipole appears to have a balanced feed point while a coax feed line is 
unbalanced.  In addition, a common mode choke at the feed point is 
suggested.For 100 ft of RG-8x at 14 MHz the loss is ~ 1.25 dB when 
matched.  Other than using a balanced feed system, which will much more 
complex to install, RG-8x is about the best way to go.  You may also 
find that a 2nd common mode choke at the radio will also be helpful as 
well.


The Balun Designs products work very well in this regard.  For Common 
Mode Chokes, in several applications I use a product from The Wireman 
being model #8232.  This is a 3' coax jumper with beads and is good for 
160M - 10M at near legal limit power.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/28/2015 7:40 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

A 1:1 current balun could be very useful at rejecting nearby common-mode 
interference. At my house, that dropped the noise floor by about 6dB.



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[Elecraft] [K3] Test Mode TX and TX Monitor?

[Phil Hystad]

I did something tonight I have not done before since having my P3 TX Monitor in 
place.  I was testing the adjustment on my paddle in TX Test Mode and I noticed 
that the P3 acted as normal — that is, no signal — with the exception of the 
bar graph for SWR.  The bar graph registered an SWR of 3:1 (normally about 
1.1:1) in response to key down while in Test Mode.  Yet, the bar graph acts 
normally showing the correct SWR in TX mode (not test).

I would expect that the P3 would not register anything while in Test Mode TX — 
just like before hooking up the TX Monitor.

So, this is a little anomaly that others see and is this normal behavior?

Thanks,
73, phil, K7PEH

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Re: [Elecraft] [K1] Question about antenna tuners that I should not have to ask but do.

[Walter Underwood]

Oops, thanks for the clarification. I should have added “at the antenna”. After 
reading K9YC’s encyclopedic work (http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf 
) four times, it has seeped into the 
lower neurons.

Maybe I should read it again.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> I would agree that a 1:1 balun is preferable in as much as a center fed 
> dipole appears to have a balanced feed point while a coax feed line is 
> unbalanced.  In addition, a common mode choke at the feed point is suggested. 
>For 100 ft of RG-8x at 14 MHz the loss is ~ 1.25 dB when matched.  Other 
> than using a balanced feed system, which will much more complex to install, 
> RG-8x is about the best way to go.  You may also find that a 2nd common mode 
> choke at the radio will also be helpful as well.
> 
> The Balun Designs products work very well in this regard.  For Common Mode 
> Chokes, in several applications I use a product from The Wireman being model 
> #8232.  This is a 3' coax jumper with beads and is good for 160M - 10M at 
> near legal limit power.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S s/n 10,163
> 
> On 9/28/2015 7:40 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> A 1:1 current balun could be very useful at rejecting nearby common-mode 
>> interference. At my house, that dropped the noise floor by about 6dB.
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] Roofing filters

[William Levy]

As mentioned here a few days/weeks ago Collins is no longer making their
crystal filters.

So it seems to me there will be a time that the roofing filter idea will be
another digital filter on top of the lower digital filter.

I have played with a K3 with no roofing filters, I live in a bullet proof
area with few hams, so my preferernce on CW is to go as narrow as I can if
the other guy is stable, and SSB as narrow as need be but the K3 is so
bullet proof that unless a station is on top of the other I can certainly
remove the interference by bandwidth adjustments or passband adjustments.
If the guy is on the same frequency and lower in power then the RF gain
does away with him. If he is more powerful then I simply tell him he is
interfering and he goes away or I have to go away.

I must say that the K3 is an exceptional receiver and transmit exceptional
audio that other people report to me so I can say after 54 years a ham that
I have NEVER
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[Elecraft] more

[William Levy]

Never had a better radio.

Bill N2WL
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[Elecraft] K3 - S-meter zero

[Fred Jensen]

For the first time in years, I have no antenna connected to my K3 in our 
new digs, and the S-Meter sits at S3.  What's going on and how do I get 
it to zero with no input?


I'd research this in the manual and Fred's book, if I knew where they 
were, we're still finding stuff in boxes that haven't been unpacked.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- NEXT WEEKEND!!
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - S-meter zero

[KD7PY]

1st thing is to set the RF gain to max,
check in:

  Config SMTR OF 024
SMTR SC 014
SMTR MD  NOR  when pre amp or attn is used it will effect the S
meter,
if you don't want it to change set to
ABS 

  Ed   KD7PY  ex K7WIA  



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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[WILLIS COOKE]

I am not DW but I think I qualify as etal!.  I have been doing CW since I was a 
pup and I am older than Hector.  I started with a BC455 with no crystal filter 
and the bandwidth of the receiver was about half the novice band.  I now have a 
K3 with 500 and 200 CW filters.  I sometimes use the 200 for rare DX that is in 
the noise with lots of QRM, but most of the time I set the bandwidth to about 
500 hertz.  The 500 hertz filter suits me fine.  When I use an older rig 
without digital bandwidth and with a 500 hertz filter I am real happy.  With 
the K3 I am happy with about 500 hertz band width for rag chew contacts.  It 
does not mother me to hear three or four signals unless they are about the same 
strength and about the same tone (frequency).  My K3 has standard 2700 hertz 
SSB, standard 500 hertz CW plus an additional 200 hertz filter.  I think I 
wasted money for the 200 hertz filter that I seldom use and I can't document 
any QSO that I required the 200 hertz filter to make the contact.But I am easy 
to please and was quite happy with the BC455 and a couple of crystals in 1956.  
 Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,TDXS Contest Chairman K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS
  From: Phil Anderson 
 To: dw  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 11:10 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?
   
Hey DW etal,

I noticed that you like to get on 40 and 30 at sunrise..I may try 
that if I can get up early enough! Have you read the article in the last 
QST about the 3 myths about propagation, notably on ionization at 
sunrise? It may be of benefit.

73, Phil, W0XI, Lawrence, KS.

> dw 
> Monday, September 28, 2015 9:57 AM
> Hello gang,
> Just ordered my first K3.
> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
>
> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
> CW.
> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
> occasional rag-chews.
> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
>
> Many thanks in advance
> N1BBR :-]
>


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Test Mode TX and TX Monitor?

[Merv Schweigert]

Mine registers anything it wants in non transmit mode,  many times pegs 
the swr chart, other

times 2 or 3 to 1..  normal from what I see.

Merv K9FD/KH6   WH2XCR

I did something tonight I have not done before since having my P3 TX Monitor in 
place.  I was testing the adjustment on my paddle in TX Test Mode and I noticed 
that the P3 acted as normal — that is, no signal — with the exception of the 
bar graph for SWR.  The bar graph registered an SWR of 3:1 (normally about 
1.1:1) in response to key down while in Test Mode.  Yet, the bar graph acts 
normally showing the correct SWR in TX mode (not test).

I would expect that the P3 would not register anything while in Test Mode TX — 
just like before hooking up the TX Monitor.

So, this is a little anomaly that others see and is this normal behavior?

Thanks,
73, phil, K7PEH

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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Keith Onishi]

I have 3 roofing filters, 400Hz for CW and digital, 2.8kHz for SSB and 13kHz 
for listening to broadcast stations. But I should have selected 500Hz 5-pole 
and 2.7kHz 5-pole instead of 400Hz and 2.8kHz. I have very strong local power 
line noise, often S3 to S5 level. Steep filter like 8-pole filters sometimes 
internally worsen the noise level and cause less S/N to weak signals. When I 
need to use GRITTY for very weak DX RTTY signal, I have to widen the passband 
to more than 500Hz for better S/N.

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

> 2015/09/28 23:57、dw  のメール：
> 
> Hello gang,
> Just ordered my first K3.
> I haven't ordered any filters or accessories yet.
> Want to wait and see what I really will need.
> 
> I'd like to illicit your experience with the use of crystal filters for
> CW.
> What filter do you find you use the most and why?
> I won't be using the K3 for contestingjust casual CW-only DXing and
> occasional rag-chews.
> Of late, I've really enjoyed getting on 40m and 30m at sunrise.
> 
> Many thanks in advance
> N1BBR :-]
> 
> -- 
> bw...@fastmail.net
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Benny Aumala]

Being 95% CW and only sometimes on SSB
I use almost all the time 500Hz 5-pole filter.
I have 200Hz but use it very rarely.

This is just my experience since beginning of K3 history.
235 countries in QRP in 2 years, all States, all Oblasts.

BennyOH9NB

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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Phil Wheeler]

Here 400 Hz on CW, 2800 Hz mostly on CW -- though 
I have the 1000 Hz filter for tuning on CW and one 
tighter one (2100 Hz) for more crowded SSB situations.


If budget had been a concern, I'd have gone with 
400 Hz and the stock 2700 Hz pair.


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/28/15 12:35 PM, Dan Atchison wrote:
I'm with W4TV on the 5-pole 200 Hz  filter as my 
overall go to on close in CW sigs.  The 8-pole 
250 Hz filter, which I also have, is actually 
about 350 Hz in width and way too wide for me.  
That said, I use either a 500 Hz or 400 Hz 
filter most of the time on CW/RTTY


It is unfortunate that Elecraft no longer makes 
the 200 Hz filter.  Shame.


If I was going to get only one CW filter, it 
would probably be the 400 Hz jobber.


73,
Dan


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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Edward R Cole]

Bob,

Good comments.  I think those of us who have been in ham radio for 
many years still think of physical filters as doing the job of 
specifying the radio bandwidth and forget that today's radio often is 
digital or partially digital where DSP does the job and filters are 
only used supplementary to help reject off frequency interference.


I have the 13-KHz filter for FM and can be used for AM which I only 
would use for sw bc where the KBPF3 operates.  the 2.8-KHz filter 
serves 95% of my use even for CW.  The exception is working CW-eme 
where I typically operate the DSP at 100-Hz.  There the 400-Hz 
roofing filter helps improve overall noise rejection and maybe helps 
sensitivity by deepening  the off freq skirts (a guess).  I have no 
local QRM on eme.


I typically tune eme in wide bw until a signal is detected by digital 
waterfall display which I then tune in and reduce bw to hear the 
signal.  My sub-Rx only has the 2.8-KHz filter because I only use it 
for diversity using digital modes or SSB.


But it took me awhile to get my mind to accept that Rx bw is done by 
the DSP and not the filters.


PS:  my new SYN3A and KBPF3 mod kit arrived in the mail today.  Going 
to be interested to see if I see any improvement in Rx sensitivity on 
eme.  Moving below 490-KHz is the other plus as most activity is now 
472-479 KHz.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] What crystal filter do you use the most?

[Phil Wheeler]

Oops -- Here 400 Hz on CW, 2800 Hz mostly on SSB :-)

Phil W7OX

On 9/28/15 11:35 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
Here 400 Hz on CW, 2800 Hz mostly on CW -- 
though I have the 1000 Hz filter for tuning on 
CW and one tighter one (2100 Hz) for more 
crowded SSB situations.


If budget had been a concern, I'd have gone with 
400 Hz and the stock 2700 Hz pair.


73, Phil W7OX


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