date:20151110

Jer,

Perceived audio is just that.  Perception.  And to the individual, it is
*everything*.

Op skill does come into play, no doubt.

Types of noise come into play, no doubt.

The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
to "work" under different noise condx.

The K3 is an excellent radio.  I bought one after using a friends at
Sweepstakes CW two years ago.  The only time I looked back was when I had to

hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.

BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
fully CCW.  Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised they
compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer.  I
also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
would induce this hiss.  Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.

The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.

Jim
W6AIM

P.S.  I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable  ;>)



.

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jim,
  Here's a non-KookAid question for you.

Just like in school..
Show your work. 

You say that radio  has better  than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
Please provide the data upon which you base this. 
What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill comes
into play. 
I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of
it's NR is in finding the balance of settings to pull the desired signal out
of the noise. 

Any system that only has a button for NR and lacks granular control of the
parameters can't possibly pull signals out under all circumstances when
compared to a system that allows for granular control.

Opinions aside.. please provide the data upon which your claims are based. 

Claims without data are just opinion based on several factors; many of which
are out of the operators control and change over time. 

No KoolAid, just facts. I don't know that the K3S is better. On paper a
receiver system is dealing with component noise, board noise, power noise,
dynamic range, overhead, sensitivity, gain..etc..

On my K3S when digging out signals I'm playing with RF gain, Roofing
filters, IF DSP Filtering, AGC Slope, AGC Threshold, AGC Time, and finally
NR DSP algorithm (of which the K3S has LOTS). 
I have 2 main NR settings: One when I expect to have strong local signals
(e.g... contests) and one for normal use. When chasing weak signal DX I'll
play with settings to see what I can do. 

You're lucky to have never had to send your Kenwood radio in for repair. You
typically end up sending it to a third party repair shop with the hopes they
know what they are doing and do more good than harm.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 9:14 PM
To: 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Kenwood (even the "cheap" TS-480) has superior NR.  Even with just two
different, fixed, settings.

Jim
W6AIM




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[Elecraft] K3(s)- anyone have experience with PigRemote with K3 K3S?

2015-11-10 Thread Nr4c

I'm looking to try this and am looking for help. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

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[Elecraft] APF

2015-11-10 Thread Roger D Johnson


Whatever happened to the plan to provide adjustable or stepped values of
selectivity for the APF function? I rigged up a kluge consisting of an old
Autek QF-1A but would much rather have it's function built-in.

73 Roger

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread ae4pb

I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
the thread.
1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range, and
gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both receive
and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
your tastes then you're missing out.

I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to adjust
left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the sub
installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals on
my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
more sensitive than my left.

Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's ample
signal. When working weak signal it's all about balance and working the
edges. If you operate with all knobs cranked to the right I'd humbly and
respectfully suggest that you review your operating procedures regardless of
the radio you use. 

Kenwood makes a good radio, however, I've NEVER had good luck with service
from them or Yaesu. Based on my experiences in forums, reflector, and
talking with other hams; Elecraft is rabidly good about support. 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:23 AM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jer,

Perceived audio is just that.  Perception.  And to the individual, it is
*everything*.

Op skill does come into play, no doubt.

Types of noise come into play, no doubt.

The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
to "work" under different noise condx.

The K3 is an excellent radio.  I bought one after using a friends at
Sweepstakes CW two years ago.  The only time I looked back was when I had to

hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.

BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
fully CCW.  Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised they
compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer.  I
also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
would induce this hiss.  Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.

The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.

Jim
W6AIM

P.S.  I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable  ;>)



.

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jim,
  Here's a non-KookAid question for you.

Just like in school..
Show your work. 

You say that radio  has better  than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
Please provide the data upon which you base this. 
What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill comes
into play. 
I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of
it's NR is in finding the balance of settings to pull the desired signal out
of the noise. 

Any system that only has a button for NR and lacks granular control of the
parameters can't possibly pull signals out under all circumstances when
compared to a system that allows for granular control.

Opinions aside.. please provide the data upon which your claims are based. 

Claims without data are just opinion based on several factors; many of which
are out of the operators control and change over time. 

No KoolAid, just facts. I don't know that the K3S is better. On paper a
receiver system is dealing with component noise, board noise, power noise,
dynamic range, overhead, sensitivity, gain..etc..

On my K3S when digging out signals I'm playing with RF gain, Roofing
filters, IF DSP Filtering, AGC Slope, AGC Threshold, AGC Time, and finally
NR DSP algorithm (of which the K3S has LOTS). 
I have 2 main NR settings: One when I expect to have strong local signals
(e.g... contests) and one for normal use. When chasing weak signal DX I'll
play with settings to see what I can do. 

You're lucky to have never

Re: [Elecraft] K3(s)- anyone have experience with PigRemote with K3 K3S?

2015-11-10 Thread Michael Blake

Not exactly the answer you asked for but I do use my KX3 with PigRemote on a 
daily basis.  The audio is great and radio control via Nick’s (N3WG) software 
is very stable.  I use an Apple Mac mini and/or an iPad as the remote devices 
and also find that RumLog talks directly to the PigRemote via Serial over IP 
from either the local network or from any remote location via the Internet.

I am under the impression that there are few differences between the the K3, 
K3s or KX3 as regards the PigRemote.

Michael Blake - K9JRI

> On Nov 10, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> I'm looking to try this and am looking for help. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Sticky NTCH and Auto SPOT failure

Petr,

Sticky notch is not available and yes it is something I would like to see
and to my knowledge it has always been the same.

No I did not realise Spot did not work when manual notch is used.

73

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 03:16, ok1rp  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> it looks like I am the only one who is interesting in the sticky NTCH
> setting... :)
> Also no one realized that Auto SPOT is failing when NTCH is ON?
>
> Thanks for comments,
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Sticky-NTCH-and-Auto-SPOT-failure-tp7609607p7610179.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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> Message delivered to vk1zzg...@gmail.com
>



-- 



*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
Motorhome Portable*
*Miss Behavin'*


*Elecraft K3KPA500FT  #18KAT500FT  #007*
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft

Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is poor 
and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making it more 
adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love Elecraft 
products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr implementation 
in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in KX3). Regarding 
warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down #1 in this area. 
However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590 free of charge after 4 
years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old (early production) KX3 to 
Elecraft to get all the latest corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise) 
free of charge. After all, I paid about the same amount of money that someone 
is paying today for a better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist 
drinking the Kool aid in order to encourage competition.
Robert-KP4Y    


 On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae...@carolinaheli.com" 
 wrote:
   

 I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
the thread.
1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range, and
gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both receive
and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
your tastes then you're missing out.

I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to adjust
left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the sub
installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals on
my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
more sensitive than my left.

Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's ample
signal. When working weak signal it's all about balance and working the
edges. If you operate with all knobs cranked to the right I'd humbly and
respectfully suggest that you review your operating procedures regardless of
the radio you use. 

Kenwood makes a good radio, however, I've NEVER had good luck with service
from them or Yaesu. Based on my experiences in forums, reflector, and
talking with other hams; Elecraft is rabidly good about support. 

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:23 AM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jer,

Perceived audio is just that.  Perception.  And to the individual, it is
*everything*.

Op skill does come into play, no doubt.

Types of noise come into play, no doubt.

The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
to "work" under different noise condx.

The K3 is an excellent radio.  I bought one after using a friends at
Sweepstakes CW two years ago.  The only time I looked back was when I had to

hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.

BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
fully CCW.  Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised they
compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer.  I
also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
would induce this hiss.  Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.

The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.

Jim
W6AIM

P.S.  I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable  ;>)



.

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Jim,
  Here's a non-KookAid question for you.

Just like in school..
Show your work. 

You say that radio  has better  than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
Please provide the data upon which you base this. 
What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill comes
into play. 
I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of

Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

I agree with Jerry, I have found several instances when i need to adjust RF
Gain, slope, athr etc, example, early mornings here I can pull a couple
VK2's, some 2500 kilometers away on 40M. When there are storms around, I
can take away most if not all of the static crashes and they are a clear
copy and easily understood. In the afternoons, again on 40M, with stations
no more thank 600 kilometers away, I change a couple of my settings BUT
still use NR at 5.1 or 5.2 and I have TX EQ set up diferently on TX ESSB
(set at 3Kz wide) and I have an armchair copy.

I had the "hiss" appear but over time I seem to have been able to fine tune
the receive so that I am not noticing it like it was. Is this after mods
done by Elecraft recently and the new Synth board?, maybe, but I have
learned to operate the K3 better since I went over many of the posts on the
reflector and noted what öthers"had tried. The end result, I now listen to
the K3 on speaker without grinding my teeth and the CM500 headphones are
perfect for my fractured hearing.

This was not always the case, recently Elecraft conducted surgery on my K3
(#679) and I have a totally different wireless (intentionally used TIC)
today to the one I purchased in 2007.

I had a TS-480S and found the DSP was mostly ineffective (to my ears) and I
had other issues with it so I sold it. As an ex-dealer for Yaesu and
Kenwood, I can say with some certainty here that their service regimen is
quite different to Elecraft and size of the companies does play a role
here. I am not going to slam any company, nor am I heaping unwarranted
praise, I know from my experience, Elecraft not only back up their products
well, they show keen interest in each customer who reports an issue and
work very hard to resolve the problem. I don't know that we can expect
more.

I think Jerry Moore is on the right track here, there are many things that
can be adjusted on a K3 and I have been shown a K3 some time ago that the
operator had lost interest in. I had a listen, made it sound like mine and
the smile on his face was great to see. I have to admit, just abut every
setting was changed, I wrote down what I had done and he is now back on air
with his K3.

The reason I won't be rushing to a K3S is simple, My K3 is too good to
sell, and I have never owned a Ham rig for this long, no need to continue
the search, I found the right tool for the job I want it to do.
73

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 03:28, Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
> I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is
> poor and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making
> it more adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love
> Elecraft products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr
> implementation in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in
> KX3). Regarding warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down
> #1 in this area. However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590
> free of charge after 4 years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old
> (early production) KX3 to Elecraft to get all the latest
> corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise) free of charge. After all, I
> paid about the same amount of money that someone is paying today for a
> better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist drinking the Kool
> aid in order to encourage competition.
> Robert-KP4Y
>
>
>  On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae...@carolinaheli.com" <
> ae...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:
>
>
>  I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
> the thread.
> 1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
> traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
> well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range,
> and
> gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
> gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
> work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
> 2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
> dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both
> receive
> and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
> your tastes then you're missing out.
>
> I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to
> adjust
> left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the
> sub
> installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals
> on
> my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
> more sensitive than my left.
>
> Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
> level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's
> ample
> signal. When working weak signal it's all

[Elecraft] Details of K3 amplifiers

2015-11-10 Thread Phil Hystad

My K3 has two power amplifiers: 10w and 100w.

Question:  does the 10w feed the 100w in that the signal is amplified prior to 
input into 100w PA?  Or, is the input of the 10w amp the SAME as the 100w amp 
such that the 10 w is Bypassed for power > 10w.

Thanks,

73, phil, K7PEH


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Jim Lowman


Wow, I didn't think anyone coded in assembly language any longer.
Live and learn!

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 11/9/2015 6:46 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The K3's DSP code is written in very efficient assembly language. It executes 
quickly, because it doesn't need the lengthy library-routine calls typical of 
the C or C++ code written for GHz-clock DSPs. The code is also extremely 
compact.

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Edward R Cole


Topic has digressed to NR:

Simple question.  Is all this feedback on how good or how bad NR 
works about reception of CW (or does it apply to SSB?).  Only time I 
really need NR is when local noise overwhelms normally strong SSB 
(e.g. signal is running S8-S9 and noise rises up to S8-S9.  I find NR 
will lower the s-meter to about S6-S7 under those conditions but the 
audio is distorted by NR such that intelligibility is lowered - ergo 
no help to copy the signal.  I've tried several NR settings with some 
being better but none helping me understand speech better than 
running without NR.  Often NB works better than NR, but NB also tends 
to distort audio.


Using NR with normal noise conditions it is never helpful for 
improving intelligibility (for me).  I will admit that I have extreme 
hearing issues that make ordinary speech a challenge.  So any 
processing that imparts distortion reduces my ability to understand speech.


It seems to me that NR appears to experience IMD with the noise frequencies.

To be fair I have not had success using NR with other brand radios, 
either.  The only NR that works for me is in my expensive Bose 
airline headset.  That is working on different nature of noise (probably).


To be fair I represent 0.2% of the population that NR probably is 
ineffective.  I have it selectable in my hearing aids and often find 
it is not helpful, either; rejects noise from behind me but clarity 
of sound is impacted.  In a crowded room full of babble of the 
multitude, I select the TV/music mode which provides wide-frequency 
response and I turn vol up to max. 


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread george fritkin via Elecraft

I have my hearing checked every year.  My hearing is good.  I have 2)K3 and 
1)K3S.  I have never had a hiss problem with any.
George, W6GF
PS Having worked with TMS320 processors, the only way to go is assembly. 

 On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 10:39 AM, Gary Gregory  
wrote:

 I agree with Jerry, I have found several instances when i need to adjust RF
Gain, slope, athr etc, example, early mornings here I can pull a couple
VK2's, some 2500 kilometers away on 40M. When there are storms around, I
can take away most if not all of the static crashes and they are a clear
copy and easily understood. In the afternoons, again on 40M, with stations
no more thank 600 kilometers away, I change a couple of my settings BUT
still use NR at 5.1 or 5.2 and I have TX EQ set up diferently on TX ESSB
(set at 3Kz wide) and I have an armchair copy.

I had the "hiss" appear but over time I seem to have been able to fine tune
the receive so that I am not noticing it like it was. Is this after mods
done by Elecraft recently and the new Synth board?, maybe, but I have
learned to operate the K3 better since I went over many of the posts on the
reflector and noted what öthers"had tried. The end result, I now listen to
the K3 on speaker without grinding my teeth and the CM500 headphones are
perfect for my fractured hearing.

This was not always the case, recently Elecraft conducted surgery on my K3
(#679) and I have a totally different wireless (intentionally used TIC)
today to the one I purchased in 2007.

I had a TS-480S and found the DSP was mostly ineffective (to my ears) and I
had other issues with it so I sold it. As an ex-dealer for Yaesu and
Kenwood, I can say with some certainty here that their service regimen is
quite different to Elecraft and size of the companies does play a role
here. I am not going to slam any company, nor am I heaping unwarranted
praise, I know from my experience, Elecraft not only back up their products
well, they show keen interest in each customer who reports an issue and
work very hard to resolve the problem. I don't know that we can expect
more.

I think Jerry Moore is on the right track here, there are many things that
can be adjusted on a K3 and I have been shown a K3 some time ago that the
operator had lost interest in. I had a listen, made it sound like mine and
the smile on his face was great to see. I have to admit, just abut every
setting was changed, I wrote down what I had done and he is now back on air
with his K3.

The reason I won't be rushing to a K3S is simple, My K3 is too good to
sell, and I have never owned a Ham rig for this long, no need to continue
the search, I found the right tool for the job I want it to do.
73

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 03:28, Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
> I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is
> poor and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making
> it more adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love
> Elecraft products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr
> implementation in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in
> KX3). Regarding warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down
> #1 in this area. However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590
> free of charge after 4 years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old
> (early production) KX3 to Elecraft to get all the latest
> corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise) free of charge. After all, I
> paid about the same amount of money that someone is paying today for a
> better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist drinking the Kool
> aid in order to encourage competition.
> Robert-KP4Y
>
>
>      On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae...@carolinaheli.com" <
> ae...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:
>
>
>  I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
> the thread.
> 1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
> traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
> well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range,
> and
> gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
> gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
> work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
> 2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
> dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both
> receive
> and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
> your tastes then you're missing out.
>
> I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to
> adjust
> left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the
> sub
> installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear

[Elecraft] IMA boards?

2015-11-10 Thread Reuben Popp

Hey all,

In light of my recent question regarding MAB boards, does anyone have an
extra IMA pcb?  All I need is the pcb as I can source the parts here.

Thanks in advance and 73
Reuben
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Everybody stop, I hit the send button to soon.

I know what it stands for.

Jim
W6AIM



-Original Message-
From: jim [mailto:jbol...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:01 AM
To: 'Edward R Cole'; 'Elecraft@mailman.qth.net'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

What is SSB an acronym for???

Jim
W6AIM


.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Topic has digressed to NR:

Simple question.  Is all this feedback on how good or how bad NR works about
reception of CW (or does it apply to SSB?).  Only time I really need NR is
when local noise overwhelms normally strong SSB (e.g. signal is running
S8-S9 and noise rises up to S8-S9.  I find NR will lower the s-meter to
about S6-S7 under those conditions but the audio is distorted by NR such
that intelligibility is lowered - ergo no help to copy the signal.  I've
tried several NR settings with some being better but none helping me
understand speech better than running without NR.  Often NB works better
than NR, but NB also tends to distort audio.

Using NR with normal noise conditions it is never helpful for improving
intelligibility (for me).  I will admit that I have extreme hearing issues
that make ordinary speech a challenge.  So any processing that imparts
distortion reduces my ability to understand speech.

It seems to me that NR appears to experience IMD with the noise frequencies.

To be fair I have not had success using NR with other brand radios, either.
The only NR that works for me is in my expensive Bose airline headset.  That
is working on different nature of noise (probably).

To be fair I represent 0.2% of the population that NR probably is
ineffective.  I have it selectable in my hearing aids and often find it is
not helpful, either; rejects noise from behind me but clarity of sound is
impacted.  In a crowded room full of babble of the multitude, I select the
TV/music mode which provides wide-frequency response and I turn vol up to
max. 

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

What is SSB an acronym for???

Jim
W6AIM


.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Edward
R Cole
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Topic has digressed to NR:

Simple question.  Is all this feedback on how good or how bad NR works about
reception of CW (or does it apply to SSB?).  Only time I really need NR is
when local noise overwhelms normally strong SSB (e.g. signal is running
S8-S9 and noise rises up to S8-S9.  I find NR will lower the s-meter to
about S6-S7 under those conditions but the audio is distorted by NR such
that intelligibility is lowered - ergo no help to copy the signal.  I've
tried several NR settings with some being better but none helping me
understand speech better than running without NR.  Often NB works better
than NR, but NB also tends to distort audio.

Using NR with normal noise conditions it is never helpful for improving
intelligibility (for me).  I will admit that I have extreme hearing issues
that make ordinary speech a challenge.  So any processing that imparts
distortion reduces my ability to understand speech.

It seems to me that NR appears to experience IMD with the noise frequencies.

To be fair I have not had success using NR with other brand radios, either.
The only NR that works for me is in my expensive Bose airline headset.  That
is working on different nature of noise (probably).

To be fair I represent 0.2% of the population that NR probably is
ineffective.  I have it selectable in my hearing aids and often find it is
not helpful, either; rejects noise from behind me but clarity of sound is
impacted.  In a crowded room full of babble of the multitude, I select the
TV/music mode which provides wide-frequency response and I turn vol up to
max. 

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] FS or Trade: Classic microphone for K3

2015-11-10 Thread andrew vavra

Hello to all on the reflector:
I have a classic Shire model 55S set-up for use with a K3 / K3S that is surplus 
to my needs.
Includes desk stand and cable wired for K3 (no PTT / must use with foot switch)

Asking $140 + shipping or trade for a recent model 2 meter or dual band 2M/440 
rig.
Photos can be seen at this link:  
http://andyvavra.wix.com/classic-microphones#!shure-55s-/cjg9

Inquire off list to my call @ ARRL.net 

Andy Vavra, KD3RF
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Sticky NTCH and Auto SPOT failure

2015-11-10 Thread ok1rp

Hi,

it looks like I am the only one who is interesting in the sticky NTCH
setting... :)
Also no one realized that Auto SPOT is failing when NTCH is ON?

Thanks for comments,
73 - Petr, OK1RP





-
http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Sticky-NTCH-and-Auto-SPOT-failure-tp7609607p7610179.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] Fwd: RE: K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Edward R Cole


Silly Syllabic Babble


At 10:00 AM 11/10/2015, you wrote:

What is SSB an acronym for???

Jim
W6AIM


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: RE: K3 DSP processor speed

Does that mean CW = Communication Wizard?

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 05:21, Edward R Cole  wrote:

> Silly Syllabic Babble
>
> At 10:00 AM 11/10/2015, you wrote:
>>
>>> What is SSB an acronym for???
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> W6AIM
>>>
>>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> "Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
> dubus...@gmail.com
>
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> Message delivered to vk1zzg...@gmail.com
>



-- 



*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
Motorhome Portable*
*Miss Behavin'*


*Elecraft K3KPA500FT  #18KAT500FT  #007*
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread GRANT YOUNGMAN

It seems to me that “drowning in Kool Aid” is no worse than what are little 
more than anecdotal comments about how one radio is better than another one in 
regards to noise reduction.  Especially because essentially the same “leaky 
LMS”  algorithm is used by most if not all of them.  And it doesn’t have very 
much to do with how many Tera-hertz the DSP chips run or how much the radio 
weighs.

On another list, at another time, for a for a very good radio made by another 
American manufacturer, we had all the same never ending arguments.  I’m sure if 
we took those posts and changed the name of the radio, you couldn't tell them 
from the current crop.   Someone always thought their IC-xxx or TS- was 
so much better.  Anyone saying anything positive about the radio in 
question (on just about any topic) was immediately accused of being a fan of 
Kool Aid and having gone to the dark side.  It took actual measurements of 
(S+N)/N to make the point that — oh, by the way — NR on that radio did what it 
was supposed to do — raise (S+N)/N on the signal of interest — quite well, 
regardless of how much or how little it sounded your favorite “other” radio.

Perhaps someone would like to offer up one or more actual facts,  or make some 
actual confirmable measurements.  It isn’t that hard to do.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342


> 
> 
> They were drowning in Kool Aide.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: RE: K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft

OK folks - we're weaving too far OT. Let's close this thread at this time in the 
interest of reducing email overload for the majority of our list subscribers.


73

Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 11/10/2015 11:29 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:

Does that mean CW = Communication Wizard?


On 11 November 2015 at 05:21, Edward R Cole  wrote:

Silly Syllabic Babble

At 10:00 AM 11/10/2015, you wrote:

What is SSB an acronym for???


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Re: [Elecraft] Details of K3 amplifiers

2015-11-10 Thread Don Wilhelm


Phil,

The 10w PA transistors are always in the circuit - their output feeds 
the KPA3 input.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/10/2015 2:26 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

My K3 has two power amplifiers: 10w and 100w.

Question:  does the 10w feed the 100w in that the signal is amplified prior to 
input into 100w PA?  Or, is the input of the 10w amp the SAME as the 100w amp such 
that the 10 w is Bypassed for power > 10w.




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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: RE: K3 DSP processor speed

Hi Eric,

Three upercuts duly applied

:-)

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 05:35, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
e...@elecraft.com> wrote:

> OK folks - we're weaving too far OT. Let's close this thread at this time
> in the interest of reducing email overload for the majority of our list
> subscribers.
>
> 73
>
> Eric
> Moderator
> *elecraft.com *
>
> On 11/10/2015 11:29 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
> Does that mean CW = Communication Wizard?
>
>
> On 11 November 2015 at 05:21, Edward R Cole  
>  wrote:
>
> Silly Syllabic Babble
>
> At 10:00 AM 11/10/2015, you wrote:
>
> What is SSB an acronym for???
>
>
>


-- 



*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
Motorhome Portable*
*Miss Behavin'*


*Elecraft K3KPA500FT  #18KAT500FT  #007*
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[Elecraft] K3S Man NTCH and SPOT

2015-11-10 Thread Nr4c

Mine works. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

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[Elecraft] NB Question.....It says off but there is a difference..............

When I set the NB level to "IF Off" and then turn the NB on and off, there
is a 

Distinct difference in the audio between NB on or NB off (again with the
level set at IF Off)

 

Comments

 

Tnx

 

Jim

W6AIM

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] NB Question.....It says off but there is a difference..............

2015-11-10 Thread Oliver Dröse

Might it be you still have the DSP NB on, Jim? There are 2 different 
settings for the IF (hardware) and DSP NB ...


73, Olli

Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de


Am 10.11.2015 um 22:31 schrieb jim:

When I set the NB level to "IF Off" and then turn the NB on and off, there
is a

Distinct difference in the audio between NB on or NB off (again with the
level set at IF Off)

  


Comments

  


Tnx

  


Jim

W6AIM

  

  


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft


Folks, we closed this thread earlier today.

73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 11/10/2015 12:06 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

It seems to me that “drowning in Kool Aid” is no worse than what are little 
more than anecdotal comments about how one radio is better than another one in 
regards to noise reduction.  Especially because essentially the same “leaky 
LMS”  algorithm is used by most if not all of them.  And it doesn’t have very 
much to do with how many Tera-hertz the DSP chips run or how much the radio 
weighs.

On another list, at another time, for a for a very good radio made by another 
American manufacturer, we had all the same never ending arguments.  I’m sure if 
we took those posts and changed the name of the radio, you couldn't tell them 
from the current crop.   Someone always thought their IC-xxx or TS- was 
so much better.  Anyone saying anything positive about the radio in 
question (on just about any topic) was immediately accused of being a fan of 
Kool Aid and having gone to the dark side.  It took actual measurements of 
(S+N)/N to make the point that — oh, by the way — NR on that radio did what it 
was supposed to do — raise (S+N)/N on the signal of interest — quite well, 
regardless of how much or how little it sounded your favorite “other” radio.

Perhaps someone would like to offer up one or more actual facts,  or make some 
actual confirmable measurements.  It isn’t that hard to do.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342




They were drowning in Kool Aide.


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Re: [Elecraft] OT External EQ/Compressors

2015-11-10 Thread Jim Brown


On Tue,11/10/2015 2:06 PM, David Ahrendts wrote:

If you use an external EQ and compression device/s, curious what you use and/or 
recommend.


Nothing -- what's built into the K3 and KX3 are first rate. As to 
external devices -- they can be helpful for other rigs where these 
functions are poorly developed, but for K3 and KX3, they are a waste of 
money.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."

Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Bill Breeden 
wrote:

>
> Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.
>
> 73,
>
> Bill - NA5DX
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



Of note - the K3S and K3 with new synthesizers were essentially +/-
1 dB of each other and swapping the advantage from test to test.
This is good news for owners of the original K3 - the synthesizer
upgrade will provide every bit of the performance "upgrade" in the
K3S.


Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved
2DB higher due to:

>

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling
receiver."


Yes, the Flex-67000 should be dropped significantly because it can not
produce the both claimed dynamic range and noise floor (weak signal
sensitivity) at the same time.  Multiple -30 dBm (105 dB DR referenced
to -135 dBm MDS) signals will cause ADC overflow with noticeable
clicking and popping (distortion) with the preamplifier enabled.  Turn
off the preamplifier to prevent ADC overflow and the MDS degrades to
-118 dB (nearly 20 dB less sensitive) and completely unsatisfactory
above 20 MHz or so.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/10/2015 6:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:

Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."

Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Bill Breeden 
wrote:



Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.

73,

Bill - NA5DX

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Re: [Elecraft] OT External EQ/Compressors

2015-11-10 Thread Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I agree with Jim, K9YC.  The internal systems are specific for the radio 
and ham applications.  The external devices usually cause more issues 
than they actually resolve.  If you believe you need external signal 
processing, then you best examine other parts of the system to address 
the deficiency correctly.


I do not use any external EQ or signal processing devices, other than a 
good mike, a  good power amplifier and a good antenna.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S  s/n 10163


On 11/10/2015 4:17 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
If you use an external EQ and compression device/s, curious what you 
use and/or recommend.


Nothing -- what's built into the K3 and KX3 are first rate. As to 
external devices -- they can be helpful for other rigs where these 
functions are poorly developed, but for K3 and KX3, they are a waste 
of money.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Charlie T, K3ICH

Simple Slop Bucket.

Something Seems Broken.

Sure Sounds Bad.

Start Sending Better.


73, Charlie k3ICH




What is SSB an acronym for???

Jim
W6AIM


.

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On
Behalf Of Edward R Cole
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 10:44 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Topic has digressed to NR:

Simple question.  Is all this feedback on how good
or how bad NR works about reception of CW (or does
it apply to SSB?).  Only time I really need NR is
when local noise overwhelms normally strong SSB
(e.g. signal is running
S8-S9 and noise rises up to S8-S9.  I find NR will
lower the s-meter to about S6-S7 under those
conditions but the audio is distorted by NR such
that intelligibility is lowered - ergo no help to
copy the signal.  I've tried several NR settings
with some being better but none helping me
understand speech better than running without NR.
Often NB works better than NR, but NB also tends
to distort audio.

Using NR with normal noise conditions it is never
helpful for improving intelligibility (for me).  I
will admit that I have extreme hearing issues that
make ordinary speech a challenge.  So any
processing that imparts distortion reduces my
ability to understand speech.

It seems to me that NR appears to experience IMD
with the noise frequencies.

To be fair I have not had success using NR with
other brand radios, either.
The only NR that works for me is in my expensive
Bose airline headset.  That is working on
different nature of noise (probably).

To be fair I represent 0.2% of the population that
NR probably is ineffective.  I have it selectable
in my hearing aids and often find it is not
helpful, either; rejects noise from behind me but
clarity of sound is impacted.  In a crowded room
full of babble of the multitude, I select the
TV/music mode which provides wide-frequency
response and I turn vol up to max. 

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
 "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
 dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread David Gilbert



What on earth would cause you to make a statement like that?   A large 
number of rigs still on the market have fundamental and inexcusably bad 
key clicks and phase noise that pollute the bands, not to mention the 
ones with wide front ends that pound the bejeezus out of the AGC from 10 
KHz away.


Dave   AB7E



On Tue,11/10/2015 2:35 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
There are no bad radios currently on the market. 




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[Elecraft] For Sale: KAT3 Auto Tuner Module for K3

2015-11-10 Thread Terry Posey

I upgraded my K3 to a KAT3A to realize the marginally lower insertion loss
on 6M.  The original KAT3 is fully functional, but it is now surplus to my
needs.

 

For Sale:  Elecraft KAT3 automatic antenna tuner module, $150.00, free
delivery to USA only.

 

Contact me via:  tpo...@nettally.com  

 

73,

Terry K4RX

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Jim Brown


On Tue,11/10/2015 2:35 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
There are no bad radios currently on the market. 


Obviously you've never operated a contest with a neighbor running an 
FTDX5000, IC7600, IC706, or others in that class. All occupy a lot more 
than their fair share of CW bandwidth and TX lots of phase noise. I 
would call them bad radios.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread George via Elecraft

Hello All 
Im playing around with the macros and trying to see if i could control the VFO 
with the keyboard 
(left right arrows maybe) 
Anyone successful with this using the PX3 Keyboard?

George NE2I


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Bob McGraw - K4TAX

There are no bad radios currently on the market.  Some are better 
radios, but better is in the eyes {ears} of the beholder.  However, 
those radios of yesteryear, as compared to the current breed of radios 
from Elecraft, Kenwood, Yaesu, ICOM, Flex and Tentec and ? are 
really in the back seat in terms of overall  performance. Yes we do have 
our favorite because of our operation preferences, our QTH, our antenna 
farm restricted or not, our personal type of noise and a host of other 
variables.


I agree with Rob Sherwood...If it fits your needs and budget and 
you enjoy using it, then it is a good radio.  Look no further. However, 
as technology moves forward at present at lightning speed, I believe if 
a radio is approaching 10 years old or more, one should consider 
replacing it.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163

 


On 11/10/2015 2:06 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:

It seems to me that “drowning in Kool Aid” is no worse than what are little 
more than anecdotal comments about how one radio is better than another one in 
regards to noise reduction.  Especially because essentially the same “leaky 
LMS”  algorithm is used by most if not all of them.  And it doesn’t have very 
much to do with how many Tera-hertz the DSP chips run or how much the radio 
weighs.

On another list, at another time, for a for a very good radio made by another 
American manufacturer, we had all the same never ending arguments.  I’m sure if 
we took those posts and changed the name of the radio, you couldn't tell them 
from the current crop.   Someone always thought their IC-xxx or TS- was 
so much better.  Anyone saying anything positive about the radio in 
question (on just about any topic) was immediately accused of being a fan of 
Kool Aid and having gone to the dark side.  It took actual measurements of 
(S+N)/N to make the point that — oh, by the way — NR on that radio did what it 
was supposed to do — raise (S+N)/N on the signal of interest — quite well, 
regardless of how much or how little it sounded your favorite “other” radio.

Perhaps someone would like to offer up one or more actual facts,  or make some 
actual confirmable measurements.  It isn’t that hard to do.



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[Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Bill Breeden



Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.

73,

Bill - NA5DX

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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread Ken Alexander


Hi George,

They have a piece of sample code to do what I think you want to do at 
the bottom of page 6 of the K2s & K3 & KX3 Programmers Reference 
document.  You can download the PDF file from the Elecraft website:

http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#KX3

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS


On 2015-11-10 6:53 PM, George via Elecraft wrote:

Hello All
Im playing around with the macros and trying to see if i could control the VFO 
with the keyboard
(left right arrows maybe)
Anyone successful with this using the PX3 Keyboard?

George NE2I


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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Fred
Well for the Flex 6000 series you keep one hand on the so called AGC-T
control. Since there is no hardware AGC you're doomed to constantly
juggling the input level.
I had one here and used the Flex Control knob to perform that function.
Using it this way brings back memories of Pre-AGC days and frequent
adjustment of the RF gain knob.
Steve N4LQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:

> Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:
>
> In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to the
> ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at the ADC?
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
>
>> Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
>> higher due to:
>>
>> Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."
>>
>> Congratulations K3S
>> Steve N4LQ
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Barry LaZar


Fred,
When you have a 24 bit A/D and not looking at the entire spectrum, 
this should not be as big a problem as you imply, if gain distribution 
is correct.  24 bits should yield a great enough dynamic range to cover 
greater than ~ 95% of time; that last ~5% covers your friend next door 
with a KW or that thunderstorm over head. 24 bits also allows for some 
amplification to overcome the down stream noise figure that may be 
greater than ambient.
On the other hand, the Flex uses a really high speed A/D, but it is 
only 16 bits, if memory serves. That architecture is far more sensitive 
to gain distribution. Those who have suggested that the Flex may have a 
problem with all the bits going to 1 in a stress environment may be very 
correct. IMHO: With the state of the A/D art as it is, I believe 
Elecraft has the better practical architecture. As soon as low noise, 
high speed A/Ds become available with greater than 16 bits, my opinion 
may change.


73,
Barry
K3NDM


-- Original Message --
From: "Fred Jensen" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 11/10/2015 7:32:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a 
EE]:


In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to 
the ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at 
the ADC?


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 
2DB

higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling 
receiver."


Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ


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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Fred Jensen

Not heavy enough, minimum specs for boatanchor is 75 lbs.  SX-28 and 
DX-100 were boatanchors.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org


On 11/10/2015 4:34 PM, Gary wrote:


Glad I upgraded my K3 (2007) vintage, guess now mine can be termed a
boat anchor?

73

Gary

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

2015-11-10 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft


Guys - This thread is closed.

Eric
Moderator - really!
/elecraft.com/

On 11/10/2015 3:00 PM, David Gilbert wrote:


What on earth would cause you to make a statement like that?   A large number 
of rigs still on the market have fundamental and inexcusably bad key clicks 
and phase noise that pollute the bands, not to mention the ones with wide 
front ends that pound the bejeezus out of the AGC from 10 KHz away.

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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Barry LaZar


Steve,
Not having the schematic of the Flex isn't as important as knowing 
they are using a 16 bit A/D. In a perfect world, the rule of thumb is 
6db/bit, 96 db may be accounted for. However, an A/D that can cover all 
the way to 2 meters has to be very fast > 296 msp, if you believe 
Nyquist. If you apply hardware AGC in any form, it is reflected across 
the entire spectrum. And to add further insult, high speed A/Ds have 
noise figures great enough to mask ambient noise at mid and above HF. 
That means you need to add a low noise amplifier ahead of the A/D with 
enough gain to overcome system noise, and that will start to bite into 
those 16 bits by a function of the gain of the amplifier. You can do 
some creative things like use tapered gain amplifiers that have a 
reverse taper so that max gain is at the high end of the spectrum; 
Typically signals and noise are greater at the lower end of HF even if 
SNR appear to be greater at the high end.


The use of a 24 bit A/D allows for using a simpler approach and yet 
maintain a high dynamic range.  It also disallows using A/Ds that can 
cover the entire spectrum as they don't yet exist.


Unlike math and physics, EEs are more artists than scientists. I 
suspect the discussions at Elecraft over the architectures would have 
been very interesting. There are advantages and disadvantages to direct 
sampling and to the hetrodyne SDR's. Which is better? It's a function of 
how you want to handle the requirement set which may impact price. Why 
do I call engineers artists? The sciences are absolute and engineers 
have to craft a solution that accounts for the compromises, and few 
engineers always agree on the very same solution. One may like red and 
another may like blue so the creation comes out as a work of art. The 
bottom line is that the chosen implementations of Elecraft radios are 
Gee Whiz and exceed what the casual user needs and appears to be the 
best for contesting. That last bit is my opinion and I'm sticking with 
it.


Just for the record, I use a KX3. It is lower on Sherwood's 
rankings, but I think it is the best overall radio out there. It 
satisfies a greater number of my requirements. And, that is how I 
colored my solution.  ;-)



73,
Barry
K3NDM


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Ellington" 
To: k6...@foothill.net
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: 11/10/2015 8:51:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Part of the problem here is that Flex won't release the schematic to 
the

6000 series so who knows?
I suspect that the AGC-T (Agc  threshold) control actually adjust the 
input

level to the ADCsomehow.
This control is manual and must be fiddled with per-band as conditions
change. Strong signals will sound distorted and you must manually
compensate often.
N4LQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Fred Jensen  
wrote:


 OK.  Remembering that I'm the one who disappointed Mom and Dad when I 
got
 A's in Math and B's and C's in EE, and finally transferred to the 
Math Dept

 ...

 I didn't want to imply it was a problem, it was just a question.  
First
 off, I believe a direct-sampling SDR is one that essentially does 
nothing
 to the entire RF envelope being received except maybe bandpass limit 
it to
 the ham band of interest.  No guarantee that's correct, and if it 
isn't,

 you might as well delete this now.

 But if it is what direct-sample means, and since the RF envelope is 
both +

 and -, in an 8-bit ADC, 127 would be zero, 255 [all 1's] would be the
 maximum along with all 0's for the negative parts.  If the RF 
envelope is
 allowed to go above the value that digitizes to all 1's, it will 
still

 digitize to all 1's and it's excursions above all 1's are lost [i.e.
 clipped].  In my experience as a ham, this is rarely if ever a good 
thing.


 OTOH, you want as much dynamic range as possible, so you want the
 strongest input to the ADC be at the all-1's level so the parts of 
the
 envelope below that level will digitize to something other than zero 
[127
 in my 8-bit example].  Any signals below that level will digitize to 
127

 and you'll never hear them.

 If the gain of the RF stage(s), and I'm assuming there is at least 
one RF
 stage, is such that the maximum of the RF envelope is below the 
clipping
 point, then it seems to me that signals you might have heard won't be 
heard

 because they never got digitized.

 My question was [and is], do direct sampling receivers employ some 
sort of
 AGC to keep the max RF envelope at the clipping point?  If the answer 
is

 "yes", I have a second question in the wings waiting to be asked.

 Mom and Dad never recovered from their mathematician's defection from 
EE,

 despite having been a wireless addict since age 12.

 73,

 Fred K6DGW
 - Northern California Contest Club
 - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
 - www.cqp.org


 On 11/10/2015 5:06 PM, Barry

Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread Paul Saffren N6HZ

Hi George, 

You bet you can control the VFO with the PX3 keyboard.  Here's what I have
set up on my PX3: 

I use the UP/Down, Ctrl-Up/Down, Left/Right and Ctrl-Left/Right.   I have
the up/down keys adjust the frequency by 1 Hz, Ctrl-up/down by 10 Hz,
Right/Left arrow by 100 Hz and Ctrl-Right/Left arrow by 1 kHz: 


Up Arrow: UP1;
Down Arrow: DN1;

Ctrl-Up Arrow: UP;
Ctrl-Down Arrow: DN;

Right Arrow: UP8;
Left Arrow: DN8;

Ctrl-Right Arrow: UP4;
Ctrl-Left Arrow: DN4;

If you have a numeric keypad on your keyboard, you can use those keypad keys
as band buttons.  For example, you can map KP0 (keypad 0) to BN0; KP1 to
BN1;  and so on.  Those 10 keys get you from 160 to 10 meters.  Some day
when I have some extra time here at Elecraft I'll put together some tips on
macros. :-)



Kind regards, 

Paul




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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Don Wilhelm


Gary,

By definition, a boat anchor has vacuum tubes that glow, and have to be 
more than 40 years old (my definition).
Ohhh, and they need to include a power transformer which gives them 
enough weight to allow them to sink to the bottom of the lake.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/10/2015 7:34 PM, Gary wrote:

Glad I upgraded my K3 (2007) vintage, guess now mine can be termed a boat 
anchor?




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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread Paul Saffren N6HZ

I made a mistake, to adjust by 1 Hz it's UP0; and DN0;

-Paul




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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Gary

Dang!

Gee whizz I'm too young, I don't glow in the dark, I'm too skinny and I can 
swim.

Anything else wrong with me Don.

The nice young man in the white coat hasn't been to see me lately either, 
another problem maybe?

Chuckle

Gaey

-Original Message-
From: "Don Wilhelm" 
Sent: ‎11/‎11/‎2015 10:43 AM
To: "Gary" ; "Joe Subich, W4TV" ; 
"elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Gary,

By definition, a boat anchor has vacuum tubes that glow, and have to be 
more than 40 years old (my definition).
Ohhh, and they need to include a power transformer which gives them 
enough weight to allow them to sink to the bottom of the lake.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/10/2015 7:34 PM, Gary wrote:
> Glad I upgraded my K3 (2007) vintage, guess now mine can be termed a boat 
> anchor?
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Don Wilhelm


Fred,

Isn't that what the RF Gain control or input attenuator is used for?
The ADC does not simply clip, when it overloads, the ADC output becomes 
total garbage.


In other words, I don't know of any reasonable answer.  To my mind, the 
ADC determines the maximum usable dynamic range.  If the strong signals 
overwhelm the ADC maximum signal levels, no signals can be successfully 
demodulated.


Mathematically, the overload situation might not be considered, but with 
practical devices (ADC), overload is quite possible.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/10/2015 7:32 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:

In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to 
the ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at 
the ADC?




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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread Hajo Dezelski

Hello Paul,

just let everything drop and write a "Px3 Macros for Dummies". I know that
you can do it and it would be a great help for the rest of the folks who
try but do not succeed.

73 de
Hajo (DL1SDZ)

---
Cela est bien dit, ...,mais il fault cultiver notre jardin.
Am 11.11.2015 01:57 schrieb "Paul Saffren N6HZ" :

> And the BN commands must be 2 digits.  (I just added those) So 160 meters
> is
> BN00; and so on.
>
> Also, you can set up a macro to turn both the KX3 and PX3 off with one
> button push on the PX3 front panel.  First program a macro using one of the
> first 8 memory locations with the following:
> PS0;#PS0;   Map it to a front panel FN key using the Text Menu sub-menu,
> (see manual).
>
> Here's another trick a customer came up with.  Let's say you're working a
> pileup with the PX3, you have it set up for split on CW and you want to
> inject your call sign very quickly.  This can be done by setting up a
> keyboard macro to execute on a FN keypress:
> 1) Create a macro in one of the first 8 locations so it can be mapped to a
> FN key.
> 2) We'll use your call sign as an example. For the message body enter:  KY
> NE1I;
> 3) Now using the Text Menu sub-menu, program that macro to a FN key.
>
> Now it's just a matter of using the PX3 VFO Marker to choose a position in
> the pileup, push the encoder to QSY, followed by FN key to quickly send
> your
> call.
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/feature-request-PX3-keyboard-VFO-control-tp7610210p7610221.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

Part of the problem here is that Flex won't release the schematic to the
6000 series so who knows?
I suspect that the AGC-T (Agc  threshold) control actually adjust the input
level to the ADCsomehow.
This control is manual and must be fiddled with per-band as conditions
change. Strong signals will sound distorted and you must manually
compensate often.
N4LQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:

> OK.  Remembering that I'm the one who disappointed Mom and Dad when I got
> A's in Math and B's and C's in EE, and finally transferred to the Math Dept
> ...
>
> I didn't want to imply it was a problem, it was just a question.  First
> off, I believe a direct-sampling SDR is one that essentially does nothing
> to the entire RF envelope being received except maybe bandpass limit it to
> the ham band of interest.  No guarantee that's correct, and if it isn't,
> you might as well delete this now.
>
> But if it is what direct-sample means, and since the RF envelope is both +
> and -, in an 8-bit ADC, 127 would be zero, 255 [all 1's] would be the
> maximum along with all 0's for the negative parts.  If the RF envelope is
> allowed to go above the value that digitizes to all 1's, it will still
> digitize to all 1's and it's excursions above all 1's are lost [i.e.
> clipped].  In my experience as a ham, this is rarely if ever a good thing.
>
> OTOH, you want as much dynamic range as possible, so you want the
> strongest input to the ADC be at the all-1's level so the parts of the
> envelope below that level will digitize to something other than zero [127
> in my 8-bit example].  Any signals below that level will digitize to 127
> and you'll never hear them.
>
> If the gain of the RF stage(s), and I'm assuming there is at least one RF
> stage, is such that the maximum of the RF envelope is below the clipping
> point, then it seems to me that signals you might have heard won't be heard
> because they never got digitized.
>
> My question was [and is], do direct sampling receivers employ some sort of
> AGC to keep the max RF envelope at the clipping point?  If the answer is
> "yes", I have a second question in the wings waiting to be asked.
>
> Mom and Dad never recovered from their mathematician's defection from EE,
> despite having been a wireless addict since age 12.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
> - www.cqp.org
>
>
> On 11/10/2015 5:06 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>  When you have a 24 bit A/D and not looking at the entire spectrum,
>> this should not be as big a problem as you imply, if gain distribution
>> is correct.  24 bits should yield a great enough dynamic range to cover
>> greater than ~ 95% of time; that last ~5% covers your friend next door
>> with a KW or that thunderstorm over head. 24 bits also allows for some
>> amplification to overcome the down stream noise figure that may be
>> greater than ambient.
>>  On the other hand, the Flex uses a really high speed A/D, but it is
>> only 16 bits, if memory serves. That architecture is far more sensitive
>> to gain distribution. Those who have suggested that the Flex may have a
>> problem with all the bits going to 1 in a stress environment may be very
>> correct. IMHO: With the state of the A/D art as it is, I believe
>> Elecraft has the better practical architecture. As soon as low noise,
>> high speed A/Ds become available with greater than 16 bits, my opinion
>> may change.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Fred Jensen" 
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Sent: 11/10/2015 7:32:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today
>>
>> Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:
>>>
>>> In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to
>>> the ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at
>>> the ADC?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Fred K6DGW
>>> - Northern California Contest Club
>>> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
>>> - www.cqp.org
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
>>>
 Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved
 2DB
 higher due to:

 Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling
 receiver."

 Congratulations K3S
 Steve N4LQ

>>>
>>> __
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>>> Message delivered to k3...@comcast.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4460/10976 - Release Date:

Re: [Elecraft] IMA boards?

2015-11-10 Thread Brian Denley

Looked but I only have a couple of spare Rework Eliminator card sets if anyone 
needs one.

Brian Denley
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 10, 2015, at 12:36 PM, Reuben Popp  wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> In light of my recent question regarding MAB boards, does anyone have an
> extra IMA pcb?  All I need is the pcb as I can source the parts here.
> 
> Thanks in advance and 73
> Reuben
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread George Fritkin via Elecraft

Yes, I saw that -145 truly outstanding. Now, if it could only creat some sun 
spots and open 10 meters.

73
de
George, W6GF

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 10, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Bill Breeden  wrote:
> 
>> Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.
> 
> 
> Yes. We're pleased to see some excellent test results, including 106 dB of 
> IMDDR3 at 2 kHz for both the 200- and 400-Hz filters. (The K3 came in at 104 
> dB for the 400-Hz filter. The 107-dB reading is within the usual +/- 1 dB 
> lab/tech repeatability figure.)
> 
> Also worthy of note: sensitivity of -145 dBm for the new Preamp 2 on 10 
> meters. This preamp is also used on 12 and 6 meters. 
> 
> I checked with Rob, and that blocking dynamic range number (>154 dB) is *not* 
> a typo. He said he saw less than 3 dB phase noise degradation at 100 kHz with 
> +19 dBm fed into the radio, and stopped at that point. I guess there's no 
> point in melting the signal combiner :)
> 
> (By the way, Rob's K3S BDR test level of +19 dBm is exactly 10 dB *higher* 
> than the preamp-OFF ADC clipping level of the 6700. With preamp ON, it would 
> clip at an estimated -11 dBm.)
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Fred Jensen


Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:

In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to the 
ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at the ADC?


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:

Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."

Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ


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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Gary

Joe,

Pity this distinct difference is not advertised widely for those folks not well 
versed in the importance of receiver specs.

But I have to add that lurking on this reflector is certainly a good way to 
learn what is important when evaluating a transceiver.

I place great emphasis on receiver specs and antenna selection. These to me are 
the most important.

You gotta here them to work them.

Glad I upgraded my K3 (2007) vintage, guess now mine can be termed a boat 
anchor?

73

Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
Sent: ‎11/‎11/‎2015 10:25 AM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today


Of note - the K3S and K3 with new synthesizers were essentially +/-
1 dB of each other and swapping the advantage from test to test.
This is good news for owners of the original K3 - the synthesizer
upgrade will provide every bit of the performance "upgrade" in the
K3S.

> Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved
> 2DB higher due to:
 >
> Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling
> receiver."

Yes, the Flex-67000 should be dropped significantly because it can not
produce the both claimed dynamic range and noise floor (weak signal
sensitivity) at the same time.  Multiple -30 dBm (105 dB DR referenced
to -135 dBm MDS) signals will cause ADC overflow with noticeable
clicking and popping (distortion) with the preamplifier enabled.  Turn
off the preamplifier to prevent ADC overflow and the MDS degrades to
-118 dB (nearly 20 dB less sensitive) and completely unsatisfactory
above 20 MHz or so.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 11/10/2015 6:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
> Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
> higher due to:
>
> Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."
>
> Congratulations K3S
> Steve N4LQ
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Bill Breeden 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill - NA5DX
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

2015-11-10 Thread Paul Saffren N6HZ

And the BN commands must be 2 digits. (I just added those) So 160 meters is
BN00; and so on.

Also, you can set up a macro to turn both the KX3 and PX3 off with one
button push on the PX3 front panel. First program a macro using one of the
first 8 memory locations with the following:
PS0;#PS0; Map it to a front panel FN key using the Text Menu sub-menu,
(see manual).

Here's another trick a customer came up with. Let's say you're working a
pileup with the PX3, you have it set up for split on CW and you want to
inject your call sign very quickly. This can be done by setting up a
keyboard macro to execute on a FN keypress:
1) Create a macro in one of the first 8 locations so it can be mapped to a
FN key.
2) We'll use your call sign as an example. For the message body enter: KY
NE1I;
3) Now using the Text Menu sub-menu, program that macro to a FN key.

Now it's just a matter of using the PX3 VFO Marker to choose a position in
the pileup, push the encoder to QSY, followed by FN key to quickly send your
call.

-Paul

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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread George Fritkin via Elecraft

Great results Guys.  But my K3S still won't slice bread!

73
de
George, W6GF

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 10, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:
> 
> In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to the ADC 
> to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at the ADC?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
> - www.cqp.org
> 
>> On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
>> Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
>> higher due to:
>> 
>> Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."
>> 
>> Congratulations K3S
>> Steve N4LQ
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Wayne Burdick

Bill Breeden  wrote:

> Rob Sherwood added the K3S to his Receiver Test Data page today.


Yes. We're pleased to see some excellent test results, including 106 dB of 
IMDDR3 at 2 kHz for both the 200- and 400-Hz filters. (The K3 came in at 104 dB 
for the 400-Hz filter. The 107-dB reading is within the usual +/- 1 dB lab/tech 
repeatability figure.)

Also worthy of note: sensitivity of -145 dBm for the new Preamp 2 on 10 meters. 
This preamp is also used on 12 and 6 meters. 

I checked with Rob, and that blocking dynamic range number (>154 dB) is *not* a 
typo. He said he saw less than 3 dB phase noise degradation at 100 kHz with +19 
dBm fed into the radio, and stopped at that point. I guess there's no point in 
melting the signal combiner :)

(By the way, Rob's K3S BDR test level of +19 dBm is exactly 10 dB *higher* than 
the preamp-OFF ADC clipping level of the 6700. With preamp ON, it would clip at 
an estimated -11 dBm.)

73,
Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV




In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to
the ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping
at theADC?


It's a matter of gain/attenuation before the ADC.  If, for example,
one looks at the Flex-6700 they have four steps of preamplifier gain:
0, 10, 20 and 30 dB.  The best MDS and dynamic range is with 30 dB of
gain as long as one keeps the *total input signal* below the ADC
crapping threshold.  If the total input signal exceeds the ADC crap
threshold one needs to reduce the front end gain to bring total signal
levels below the overload point but that drops the weak signals below
the noise floor (typically on a dB for dB basis as preamp gain is
reduced).

Digital processing gain (decimation) helps with the dynamic range to
some degree - e.g. dynamic range is better than the simple number of
bits - but it can't do a thing when the ADC overflows and generates
garbage data.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/10/2015 7:32 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:

In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to the
ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at the ADC?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:

Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved 2DB
higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling receiver."

Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ


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Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today

2015-11-10 Thread Fred Jensen

OK.  Remembering that I'm the one who disappointed Mom and Dad when I 
got A's in Math and B's and C's in EE, and finally transferred to the 
Math Dept ...


I didn't want to imply it was a problem, it was just a question.  First 
off, I believe a direct-sampling SDR is one that essentially does 
nothing to the entire RF envelope being received except maybe bandpass 
limit it to the ham band of interest.  No guarantee that's correct, and 
if it isn't, you might as well delete this now.


But if it is what direct-sample means, and since the RF envelope is both 
+ and -, in an 8-bit ADC, 127 would be zero, 255 [all 1's] would be the 
maximum along with all 0's for the negative parts.  If the RF envelope 
is allowed to go above the value that digitizes to all 1's, it will 
still digitize to all 1's and it's excursions above all 1's are lost 
[i.e. clipped].  In my experience as a ham, this is rarely if ever a 
good thing.


OTOH, you want as much dynamic range as possible, so you want the 
strongest input to the ADC be at the all-1's level so the parts of the 
envelope below that level will digitize to something other than zero 
[127 in my 8-bit example].  Any signals below that level will digitize 
to 127 and you'll never hear them.


If the gain of the RF stage(s), and I'm assuming there is at least one 
RF stage, is such that the maximum of the RF envelope is below the 
clipping point, then it seems to me that signals you might have heard 
won't be heard because they never got digitized.


My question was [and is], do direct sampling receivers employ some sort 
of AGC to keep the max RF envelope at the clipping point?  If the answer 
is "yes", I have a second question in the wings waiting to be asked.


Mom and Dad never recovered from their mathematician's defection from 
EE, despite having been a wireless addict since age 12.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org


On 11/10/2015 5:06 PM, Barry LaZar wrote:

Fred,
 When you have a 24 bit A/D and not looking at the entire spectrum,
this should not be as big a problem as you imply, if gain distribution
is correct.  24 bits should yield a great enough dynamic range to cover
greater than ~ 95% of time; that last ~5% covers your friend next door
with a KW or that thunderstorm over head. 24 bits also allows for some
amplification to overcome the down stream noise figure that may be
greater than ambient.
 On the other hand, the Flex uses a really high speed A/D, but it is
only 16 bits, if memory serves. That architecture is far more sensitive
to gain distribution. Those who have suggested that the Flex may have a
problem with all the bits going to 1 in a stress environment may be very
correct. IMHO: With the state of the A/D art as it is, I believe
Elecraft has the better practical architecture. As soon as low noise,
high speed A/Ds become available with greater than 16 bits, my opinion
may change.

73,
Barry
K3NDM


-- Original Message --
From: "Fred Jensen" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 11/10/2015 7:32:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Sherwood Receiver Test Data - K3S Added Today


Question from a mathematics major [whose parents wanted him to be a EE]:

In a direct-sampling receiver, how do you control the input level to
the ADC to achieve maximum available dynamic range without clipping at
the ADC?

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 11/10/2015 3:58 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:

Looks like the K3S should be above the Flex because the Flex achieved
2DB
higher due to:

Footnote Y --- "This is a testing anomaly of a direct-sampling
receiver."

Congratulations K3S
Steve N4LQ


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