Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[David Gilbert]

I was talking about logged QSO times.  Pretty sure you know what's what 
I meant, so I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be cute.


Dave   AB7E


On 10/19/2019 7:29 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else 
or ending it two minutes later.


John KK9A - W4AAA



David Gilbert AB7E wrote:


My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
tenths of a second of everyone else.

Dave   AB7E

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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[kevinr]

Good Evening,

   I was listening to the ALCS game 6 on 750 AM.  It was loud but I 
kept hearing tones.  I thought I was imagining CW from the noise.  It 
wasn't repeated often enough to catch more than a character or two once 
or twice an inning.  Then in the 4th I got K7??T.  I put that into 
https://www.wm7d.net/perl/ulsquery.pl but got too many hits.  Then a lot 
of repetitions with DE K7RAT a few times.  I put that into the database 
and I found an amateur radio club station south of Manning.  Put the 
address into Google maps and found their location.  Eight miles as the 
crow flies from me across a clear space between us.  I put K7RAT into 
http://reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0=K7RAT=dx and found 
their frequency of 1817.0 kHz.  I should have completed the loop by 
turning on my K3 and finding them there too.  I was able to copy a few 
other stations on my stereo's receiver but not as well as the club 
station.  From google maps I saw a large vertical antenna.  I should 
drive over for a QSL card :)


   I need to work on my antenna system so I can use 160 meters this 
season.  The ATU on my K3 can't match my antenna; I think it is too 
long.  But I can use it to copy a lot of folks on the low band.  Twenty 
and forty meters are not as quiet nor as productive.  I am hopeful the 
sun will be more active one day. Which day that may be in still in flux.



Please join us on (or near):

14050 kHz at 2200z Sunday (3 PM PDT Sunday)
  7047 kHz at z Monday (5 PM PDT Sunday)

   73,
  Kevin. KD5ONS


_

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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Bill Weaver]

  
  
Does the Mac need one? How gar off is your clock?
  

  
73,
  
Bill WE5P
  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
>   
> On Oct 19, 2019 at 23:50, Randy Heisewrote:
>   
>   
>  As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these 
> software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for 
> Macs? Randy, NB7E Sent from my iPhone  >  On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David 
> Gilbert wrote:  >   >    >  My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 
> 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to 
> sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for 
> contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for 
> best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a 
> second of everyone else.  >   >  Dave AB7E  >   >   >>  On 10/19/2019 12:32 
> PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:  >>  For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is 
> relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems 
> adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing.  >>   >>  Remember, 
> it's only a hobby.  >>   >>  Bob, K4TAX  >>   >>   >>  Sent from my iPhone  
> >>     On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote:  >>>   >>>  Typical NTP 
> implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see  >>>  if your 
> implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just  >>>  
> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of  >>>  
> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.  >>>   >>>  Good luck  >>> 
>   >>>  Scott  >>>  AD6YT  >>>   >>>  On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David 
> Gilbert  >>>  wrote:  >>>     I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does 
> everything by itself. For some    reason it just doesn't seem to do it on 
> startup ... it takes a few    minutes before it kicks in. So far I 
> haven't figured out why.       73,    Dave AB7E        
> >  On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:  >  There is something 
> wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer  >  every time that you 
> boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an  >  installer; the actual 
> software installed is the open source NTP  >  reference implementation, 
> currently owned by the University of  >  Delaware, and developed under 
> the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.  >   >  The reference version 
> means the version used to verify the  >  implementability of the 
> specification in the RFC document.  >     
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>   
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Walter Underwood]

Macs have NTP time synchronization built in. They’ve had that since the early 
days of MacOS X, so more than fifteen years.

Under the “Date & Time” panel in System Preferences, the “Set date and time 
automatically” checkbox enables NTP synchronization.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Randy Heise  wrote:
> 
> As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these 
> software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for 
> Macs?
> 
> Randy, NB7E
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's 
>> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I couldn't 
>> care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for 
>> FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results.  
>> Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of 
>> everyone else.
>> 
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant.  For 
>>> timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate.  I see on 
>>> reason to maintain microsecond timing.
>>> 
>>> Remember, it's only a hobby.
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox  wrote:
 
 Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
 if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
 suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
 event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
 
 Good luck
 
 Scott
 AD6YT
 
 On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert 
 wrote:
 
> I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some
> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
> minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>> every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an
>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>> 
>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Randy Heise]

As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these 
software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for 
Macs?

Randy, NB7E

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's 
> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I couldn't 
> care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for 
> FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results.  
> Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of 
> everyone else.
> 
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
>> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant.  For timed 
>> or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate.  I see on reason to 
>> maintain microsecond timing.
>> 
>> Remember, it's only a hobby.
>> 
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
>>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
>>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
>>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
>>> 
>>> Good luck
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> AD6YT
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some
 reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
 minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.
 
 73,
 Dave   AB7E
 
 
> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
> every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an
> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
> 
> The reference version means the version used to verify the
> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Jim Brown]

On 10/19/2019 7:42 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Two minutes early and stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP.  Get your head out of 
the sand.  There is no honor among thieves.


Timing errors like this would be exposed by log checking. I'm a member 
of one of the largest US contest clubs, and I've visited many of the 
bigger stations. Power cheating is NOT what WE do. It is, however, 
widely believed that there is significant power cheating in some 
countries.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Tony Estep]

I don't know Meinberg, but I use Dimension 4. It starts when my computer
boots. From pressing the On switch to full operation is about 1 minute, and
the computer time is set within 0.1 second. Anybody can do the same, no
problem.

Tony KT0NY
T

T
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

And you believe everyone else follows all the rules?   Two minutes early and 
stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP.  Get your head out of the sand.  There is no 
honor among thieves. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 9:29 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> 
> I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else or 
> ending it two minutes later.
> 
> John KK9A - W4AAA
> 
> 
> 
> David Gilbert AB7E wrote:
> 
> 
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I
> couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> tenths of a second of everyone else.
> 
> Dave   AB7E
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[john]

I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else  
or ending it two minutes later.


John KK9A - W4AAA



David Gilbert AB7E wrote:


My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
tenths of a second of everyone else.

Dave   AB7E

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[Elecraft] KX3 PA Temperature Limit

[Tony]

All:

Anyone know what the recommended maximum operating PA temperature is for 
the KX3? Or for that matter, the KX2?


73, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] [PX3] Waterfall

[Ingo Meyer, DK3RED]

Hello Grant,



The waterfall height range adjustment is from 20-139, with 100 as the default.  
With height set to 139, slightly more than 1/2 the display is waterfall — maybe 
60%

At that height it takes about 10-11 seconds for a signal to move to the bottom 
of the display


Thank you for the detailed information.


73/72 de Ingo, DK3RED - Don't forget: the fun is the power!
www.qrp4fun.de - dk3...@qrp4fun.de

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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Gwen Patton]

I use the same tool as Jim Brown. Nettime (from timesynctool.com) works
really well, and can be polled anytime to make sure the time is as close as
possible.

Gwen, NG3P

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 4:24 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature
> and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my
> Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has
> drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it.
>
> Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used
> http://www.timesynctool.com/  with the same result. I found it far
> easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to
> incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of
> internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> > unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I
> > couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> > contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> > for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> > tenths of a second of everyone else.
>
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-- 

-+-+-+-+-
Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
http://quarktime.net
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Re: [Elecraft] [PX3] Waterfall

[Grant Youngman]

The waterfall height range adjustment is from 20-139, with 100 as the default.  
With height set to 139, slightly more than 1/2 the display is waterfall — maybe 
60%

At that height it takes about 10-11 seconds for a signal to move to the bottom 
of the display

Grant NQ5T

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 4:31 PM, Ingo Meyer, DK3RED  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mike,
> 
> 
> > I too intend to buy the PX3. Did NOT see answer to your question.
> > I would be interested IF you got a direct reply with ANSWERS?
> 
> There was only one answer direct and no one via the mailing list.
> 
> > Ingo, your can adjust the height to only about 1/2 the size of the window.
> > There is a menu selection for it called Waterfall Height.
> 
> This statement surprises me, because the manual says for the menue 
> "Waterfall" the default is "100" to change the height of the waterfall window 
> when the display is in waterfall mode.
> 
> Does that mean 100% of the half display height?
> 
> And there was no answer to my second question:
> 
> > If the waterfall is increased to 100% height (if possible), how long does it
> > take for a signal on the waterfall to reach the bottom from the top?
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] [PX3] Waterfall

[Ingo Meyer, DK3RED]

Hello Mike,


> I too intend to buy the PX3. Did NOT see answer to your question.
> I would be interested IF you got a direct reply with ANSWERS?

There was only one answer direct and no one via the mailing list.

> Ingo, your can adjust the height to only about 1/2 the size of the window.
> There is a menu selection for it called Waterfall Height.

This statement surprises me, because the manual says for the menue "Waterfall" the default 
is "100" to change the height of the waterfall window when the display is in waterfall mode.


Does that mean 100% of the half display height?

And there was no answer to my second question:

> If the waterfall is increased to 100% height (if possible), how long does it
> take for a signal on the waterfall to reach the bottom from the top?


73/72 de Ingo, DK3RED - Don't forget: the fun is the power!
www.qrp4fun.de - dk3...@qrp4fun.de
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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[Jim Brown]

Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature 
and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my 
Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has 
drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it.


Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used 
http://www.timesynctool.com/  with the same result. I found it far 
easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to 
incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of 
internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose.


73, Jim K9YC

On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's 
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I 
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for 
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better 
for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two 
tenths of a second of everyone else.


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Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy

[David Gilbert]

My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's 
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it.  I 
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for 
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better 
for best results.  Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two 
tenths of a second of everyone else.


Dave   AB7E


On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant.  For timed or 
sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate.  I see on reason to maintain 
microsecond timing.

Remember, it's only a hobby.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox  wrote:

Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.

Good luck

Scott
AD6YT

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert 
wrote:


I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some
reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an
installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.

The reference version means the version used to verify the
implementability of the specification in the RFC document.


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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant.  For timed or 
sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate.  I see on reason to maintain 
microsecond timing. 

Remember, it's only a hobby. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox  wrote:
> 
> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Scott
> AD6YT
> 
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some
>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
>> minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>>> every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an
>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>>> 
>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Tox]

Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.

Good luck

Scott
AD6YT

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert 
wrote:

>
> I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some
> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
> minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.
>
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
> > There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
> > every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an
> > installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
> > reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
> > Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
> >
> > The reference version means the version used to verify the
> > implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Looking for volunteer to design a tiny CW transceiver for socially isolated kids/teens

[Fred Jensen]

It depends on a number of factors.  Here in the Colonies, our beloved 
version of OFCOM has defined three types of unlicensed radiators:  
Incidental, Unintentional, and Intentional.  Incidental are those that 
make RF as part of their operation but don't need to and it serves no 
purpose in their operation.  Basically noisemakers like PWM motor 
controls or arcing HV lines.  Unintentional are those that create RF as 
part of their operation but do not intend or need to radiate it. 
Computers are probably the best example, a one-tube regenerative RX is 
another.  Intentional are those that make and radiate RF as an integral 
part of their operation.  Remote sensing thermometers and weather 
stations are a good example ... so is Wayne's 1 mw TX.  They are all 
regulated by Part 15 of the FCC's regulations. 2.4 and 5.6 GHz Wi-Fi and 
Bluetooth devices are all covered by Part 15.  There are also duty cycle 
limits in some regions of the spectrum.


A big factor is the antenna, and one requirement of Part 15 is that the 
user be unable to modify it.  That's why I used the term "Part 15 
Engineering," one will have to test and certify that the device meets 
the Part 15 requirements including the field strength.  150 mW on 6 MHz 
with a 0 dBi antenna will produce a field strength of about 0.07 V/m at 
30 m which is way over the limit.  1 mW will be about 0.006 V/m or so.  
A very limited antenna with something like -15 to -20 dBi "gain" would 
probably bring the field strength down sufficiently, provided the user 
can't get to it to modify it.


I'd consider randomizing the TX frequencies within a very small [~5-10 
kHz?] "band" [like padding the xtals] and making the RX tuneable over 
that band so a group could have individual "conversations" such as at a 
Scout meeting or in a classroom.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/19/2019 12:29 AM, CUTTER DAVID wrote:

Wayne was looking for 1mW output.  How does that equate in regard to the regs?

David G3UNA


On 18 October 2019 at 22:58 Fred Jensen  wrote:


If they're unlicensed, they will be intentional radiators subject to
47CFR15 Subpart C [15.201 et seq] which imposes field strength limits
that vary with frequency. 15.201(b) may also require certification.
Depending on choice of frequency, 150 mW may be way too high since in
the 1.7 - 30 MHz range, the limit is 30 uV/m at 30 m.  I think Wayne has
hit on a great idea, it's just going to take some Part 15 engineering.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County




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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[David Gilbert]

I don't have to rerun Meinberg.  It does everything by itself.  For some 
reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few 
minutes before it kicks in.  So far I haven't figured out why.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer 
every time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an 
installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP 
reference implementation, currently owned by the University of 
Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.


The reference version means the version used to verify the 
implementability of the specification in the RFC document.




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Re: [Elecraft] Radio clocks, internet and security!

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

I follow those who counsel and implement "caution" with all the 
modern/current internet connections and digital wonders. Just because 
something is possible doesn't mean it's wise. I have had one - yes, one 
- virus infection in 34 years of being online with minimal firewall and 
virus protection. I attribute this to strict caution in opening, 
responding, and searching internet content of any and all kinds. There's 
a Supreme Court maxim about not taking any and all cases that I think 
applies here: "Resist the entering wedge."


...robert
   KE2WY

On 10/19/2019 00:08, Walter Underwood wrote:

A zillion years ago, I was maintaining some ???groupware??? for engineers at HP 
(Notesfiles). I was amazed to learn that some people used a different set of 
commands than I did. They found some bugs in those clearly superfluous 
commands. Despite their obviously mistaken approach to using the software, I 
fixed the bugs. :-)

So, be open to different uses of a product. Me, I keep Pacific time on my watch 
and UTC on my KX3. I log my SOTA activations in UTC. I reset the KX3 clock 
before each activation.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Oct 18, 2019, at 4:54 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Chuck and all,

How many actually use the clock in the K3, K3S, KX3 or KX2?
I certainly don't.  In the case of the KX3 it is used to time the charging of 
the internal batteries - good use.

I can see a ham without a watch or cell phone to want the rig to display the 
time for logging, but for me, my good old Timex on my wrist tells me what time 
to log.  The clock in my KX3 is more difficult to access than simply glancing 
at my wrist!

I have never even set the clock in my K3 or KX3!  Nor do I feel a need to do so.

As far as the K4 Linux software/firmware being internet connected, I have my 
reservations about that.  I have enough stuff connected to the internet, and 
someone will have to demonstrate the benefit of my ham radio being connected to 
the internet in addition to my computers.

If connection of the K4 to the internet is to be done, I have concerns about 
security and personal privacy.  Even Linux is subject to bad stuff from the 
internet - it is not entirely secure, it is just that the number of users is 
small compared to other OS versions and hackers just do not bother for most 
cases.

When my refrigerator or microwave begins to listen in to my conversations, I 
begin to worry about the BIG Brother consequences.

BTW, I do not have an Alexa or Siri device for those security reasons. I can 
easily use a switch on the wall to operate a light switch and it is secure. I 
can turn on my home theater or my computer AV application when I want to hear 
music or view videos.

Call me old-fashioned, but I like to have control of my environment. The 
Internet Of Things seems to be fraught with exposures and dangers that I am not 
willing to accept.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/18/2019 2:03 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

Is a more accurate clock possible? I imagine that depends on available chips 
but it???s a common topic.

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--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Tony CW transceiver for socially isolated kids

[K8TE]

While getting somethings on my shopping list at Wired Communications
yesterday, I found a $5.00 40m transmitter kit.  It is a through-hole kit
with a pair of transistors and a crystal on 7023.  The card on the box
indicated it runs 150 mW, reminding me of a similar transmitter I built with
two transistors for 80m.  This kit with similarly inexpensive receiver could
fill the bill as Wayne describes it.

Yes, kids, with the right Elmers, get a kick out of this kind of thing.  No,
I'm not writing about my experiences in the 1960's, but those with Scouts
and other kids in the last ten years.  I watched Eric spend a lot of time
yesterday demonstrating the K4 to what looked to me to be a 13-year-old who
is already licensed, probably thanks to his dad who also has a ticket.

The typical grumpy old ham who operates 75m each morning and evening (let
the flames begin) is not the one who will spark enthusiasm in anyone, but
especially kids, for ham radio.  Heck!  They're the same ones who ignore
visitors to their own club meetings.

We need ideas like Wayne's, but more importantly, enthusiastic, active,
engaged hams who are willing to share their time and love of our avocation
with others.  Most new hams today are middle-aged and come to us via EMCOMM. 
We need to share the mystery and excitement of HF with them and not belittle
them for purchasing their cheap HT’s but help program them and invite them
to visit our shacks to work some DX and enter a QSO party.

Time for a shower and maybe breakfast before the day begins at Pacificon. 
It looked busy yesterday and will likely be busier today.  Monday, we'll
stop by Watsonville to deliver a damaged KPA500 and K3 from my RV trip to
and from Dayton earlier this year.  Then, I'll get ready for next weekend's
CQ WW DX SSB Contest with a friend in Gallup NM.

Get active.  Get engaged.  Get on-the-air!  73, Bill, K8TE




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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[K8TE]

I saw the dual panadatpors yesterday--very, very cool!

I'll try to snap some pictures today.  BTW, my phone is connected to the
Internet, although the connection via Verizon is almost useless here in San
Ramon!  It does take pictures and provides a very accurate time.  I operate
my K3 and KX3 away from home a lot, frequently out of reach of the Internet. 
Accurate time is sometimes valuable to me.

I brought extra cash with me to entice anyone at the Elecraft booth for an
early K4 delivery.  It hasn't worked yet. I need a lower serial number than
my old friend Peter, N5YJ, formerly K5HAB. 

I did get Wayne and Eric to autograph the bottom cover of my K2 kit.  I'll
begin the kit's inventory soon and even assembly later this year.  I'm
hoping my K4 arrives before I finish the K2 since the latter's progress will
likely be very slow.

73, Bill, K8TE



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Re: [Elecraft] Group.io. Elecraft-KX

[Ian Kahn]

Thaire,

Go to groups.io. Search for "KX". Select the group that is the Elecraft KX
group (there are a couple of "KX" groups. Click the link/button to ask to
join the group. It's that easy. I did it last night and was approved and
joined within a couple of hours.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 8:43 AM Thaire Bryant  wrote:

> How does one join this group?
>
> Thanks!
> Thaire. W2APF
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[Elecraft] Group.io. Elecraft-KX

[Thaire Bryant]

How does one join this group?

Thanks!
Thaire. W2APF
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Re: [Elecraft] Radio clocks, internet and security!

[Tommy]

  I too agree with Don 100%! I also wouldn't buy a so called "smart" 
TV. And I'll trust my Linux machine far more than any Windows or Mac. 
Even Chromebooks (they are Linux based) are more secure than Windows and 
Macs. And "smart phones" are too smart for their own good too. I just 
bought my first one earlier this year. I like the internet but don't 
need to be connected to it every second of the day.


73! de Tom - KB2SMS


On 10/18/19 8:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Don,
Plus you actually get exercise when you walk to your devices rather than rely 
on some software that does in fact invade your privacy. I am with you on this 
100%.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 6:55 PM
To: hawley, charles j jr ; Wayne Burdick 

Cc: Elecraft Reflector ; elecraft...@groups.io
Subject: [Elecraft] Radio clocks, internet and security!

Chuck and all,

How many actually use the clock in the K3, K3S, KX3 or KX2?
I certainly don't.  In the case of the KX3 it is used to time the charging of 
the internal batteries - good use.

I can see a ham without a watch or cell phone to want the rig to display the 
time for logging, but for me, my good old Timex on my wrist tells me what time 
to log.  The clock in my KX3 is more difficult to access than simply glancing 
at my wrist!

I have never even set the clock in my K3 or KX3!  Nor do I feel a need to do so.

As far as the K4 Linux software/firmware being internet connected, I have my 
reservations about that.  I have enough stuff connected to the internet, and 
someone will have to demonstrate the benefit of my ham radio being connected to 
the internet in addition to my computers.

If connection of the K4 to the internet is to be done, I have concerns about 
security and personal privacy.  Even Linux is subject to bad stuff from the 
internet - it is not entirely secure, it is just that the number of users is 
small compared to other OS versions and hackers just do not bother for most 
cases.

When my refrigerator or microwave begins to listen in to my conversations, I 
begin to worry about the BIG Brother consequences.

BTW, I do not have an Alexa or Siri device for those security reasons.
I can easily use a switch on the wall to operate a light switch and it is 
secure. I can turn on my home theater or my computer AV application when I want 
to hear music or view videos.

Call me old-fashioned, but I like to have control of my environment.
The Internet Of Things seems to be fraught with exposures and dangers that I am 
not willing to accept.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/18/2019 2:03 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

Is a more accurate clock possible? I imagine that depends on available chips 
but it’s a common topic.


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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[David Woolley]

There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer every 
time that you boot Windows!  The Meinberg product is just an installer; 
the actual software installed is the open source NTP reference 
implementation, currently owned by the University of Delaware, and 
developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.


The reference version means the version used to verify the 
implementability of the specification in the RFC document.


--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123



On 18/10/2019 23:31, David Gilbert wrote:
Agree about Windows.  When I power on my Win10 laptop that I use for FT8 
the damn thing is about 2.5 seconds off until Meinberg decides to step 
in and fix things.  Pretty sad.





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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Doug Turnbull]

The internal clock in the K3 was just not good enough without resetting
regularly for even recording log times for CW QSOs on yes, believe it or not
paper.

  73 Doug EI2CN

PS I am not looking for FT8 clock accuracy though that would be nice.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Weaver
Sent: 18 October 2019 23:46
To: David Gilbert; elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

 
 
I agree about it's utility :-).
 

 
73,
 
Bill WE5P
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
>  
> On Oct 18, 2019 at 18:31, David Gilbert  
wrote:
>  
>  
>  Yeah, I understand that. If you're going to have a clock it might as well
be accurate. I just don't understand why anyone cares about the clock to
start with. At least not unless or until Elecraft enables some embedded app
in the K4 that needs it. I doubt anyone needs +/- a couple seconds accuracy
for anything that would involve manually transcribing the time from the rig.
Agree about Windows. When I power on my Win10 laptop that I use for FT8 the
damn thing is about 2.5 seconds off until Meinberg decides to step in and
fix things. Pretty sad. 73, Dave AB7E On 10/18/2019 2:59 PM, Bill Weaver
wrote:  >  The flip side of that is with ntp being around since the stone
age and  >  the K4 having that feature implicitly, why not have it dead on?
I have  >  to use a 3rd party program to keep windows close which is a joke
in  >  the 21st century.  >   >  73,  >  Bill WE5P  >   >   >>  On Oct 18,
2019 at 17:50, David Gilbert  >   >  wrote:  >>   >>  I've never understood
the obsess!
 ion with 
clocks and clock accuracy on  >>  the K3/K3s/K4 series of rigs, yet it keeps
popping up here from time to  >>  time. I would think that 98+% of the
operations with these rigs  >>  involves the use of computer logging
programs, almost all of which  >>  boldly, conspicuously, and accurately
display the time and autolog it.  >>  I could see the need for it on a KX2
or KX3, but why is it such a big  >>  deal on the base stations?  >>   >>
Just curious. I'm a long time K3 owner and I never use the internal clock.
>>   >>  73,  >>  Dave AB7E  >>   >>   >>  On 10/18/2019 1:18 PM, Doug
Turnbull wrote:  >>   >  Chuck,  >>   >  Do you mean a 24 hour clock? I too
would like this.  >>   >   >>   >  73 Doug EI2CN  >>   >>
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>  
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Nr4c]

If you want accurate time for logging, your still gonna need to keep Windows on 
time. The logger isn’t going to get time synch from the radio. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Oct 18, 2019, at 6:02 PM, Bill Weaver  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The flip side of that is with ntp being around since the stone age and the K4 
> having that feature implicitly, why not have it dead on? I have to use a 3rd 
> party program to keep windows close which is a joke in the 21st century.  
> 
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Bill WE5P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 18, 2019 at 17:50, David Gilbertwrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I've never understood the obsession with clocks and clock accuracy on the 
>> K3/K3s/K4 series of rigs, yet it keeps popping up here from time to time. I 
>> would think that 98+% of the operations with these rigs involves the use of 
>> computer logging programs, almost all of which boldly, conspicuously, and 
>> accurately display the time and autolog it. I could see the need for it on a 
>> KX2 or KX3, but why is it such a big deal on the base stations? Just 
>> curious. I'm a long time K3 owner and I never use the internal clock. 73, 
>> Dave AB7E On 10/18/2019 1:18 PM, Doug Turnbull wrote:  >  Chuck,  >  Do you 
>> mean a 24 hour clock? I too would like this.  >   >  73 Doug EI2CN 
>> __ Elecraft 
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>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: 
>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htm!
> l Message
> delivered to weave...@usermail.com 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Paul Gacek via Elecraft]

Wayne

Now that Pacificon is underway and for those unable to attend, can you (or 
anyone!!) share a snap or two of what was displayed in San Ramon?

Paul
W6PNG/M0SNA
www.nomadic.blog

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 11:19 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> One of many K4 features we're putting the finishing touches on is the dual 
> panadapter display, which will make its debut at Pacificon. Please stop by 
> our booth this weekend if you get a chance.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Tony CW transceiver for socially isolated kids

[CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft]

Eric 
I've watched kids use Morse practice oscillators of the simplest kind (we made 
a kit for <£3 including the key) and they are absolutely taken by it.  I don't 
think they compare their cell phones with this system at all. We do because we 
are aware of the technology, but kids see things differently. 
David G3UNA

> On 18 October 2019 at 22:37 EricJ  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wonder if kids today are going to be impressed with a commercial radio 
> that lets them talk 100' away. Most of them are packing a cellphone with 
> more power than even NASA envisioned when many of us were that age.  
> Radio was magic to us. Being able to talk to people in Russia was 
> unbelievable. These kids communicate worldwide almost every day. I think 
> they might be impressed with the simplicity of a more homebrew looking 
> (guts exposed) minimalist rig with an equally simple coded "language".
> 
> Eric KE6US
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Looking for volunteer to design a tiny CW transceiver for socially isolated kids/teens

[CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft]

Wayne was looking for 1mW output.  How does that equate in regard to the regs?

David G3UNA

> On 18 October 2019 at 22:58 Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> 
> If they're unlicensed, they will be intentional radiators subject to 
> 47CFR15 Subpart C [15.201 et seq] which imposes field strength limits 
> that vary with frequency. 15.201(b) may also require certification.  
> Depending on choice of frequency, 150 mW may be way too high since in 
> the 1.7 - 30 MHz range, the limit is 30 uV/m at 30 m.  I think Wayne has 
> hit on a great idea, it's just going to take some Part 15 engineering.
> 
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
> On 10/17/2019 4:07 PM, Jeff Kabel wrote:
> > 1) Wouldn't it be better to use one of the ISM bands? Then licensing is not
> > a problem. I'd feel uncomfortable giving radios that operate in the ham
> > bands to people without a license. There are bands 6.765-6.795MHz,
> > 13.553-13.567MHz, and 26.957-27.283 close to our 40, 20, and 12/10 meter
> > bands, and a number of bands in the VHF+ range. The 13MHz one is used by
> > the HiFER  experimenters already.
> > There are also the LowFER and MedFER bands.
> >
> > 2) Does the pixie not meet the requirements? They're cheap ($3-5 on eBay),
> > low power (~150mW), and have QSK. The kits you buy don't have a volume
> > control, but that is simple to add.
> >
> >
> > -- Jeff aa6xa
> >
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