[Elecraft] Elecraft K2 CW key shaping

[dl2ki]

Hi,

since someone told me that there is a small "chirp" in my K2-CW signal, I
would like to check the signal visually.

How can I display the CW Key envelope as shown in the document "Elecraft K2
Keying Modification Instructions", page 1.

An oscilloscope "Tektronix 2465A" is at my disposal, but I have little
experience with measuring instruments, since I only use them occasionally.

Thank you and 73
Wolfgang
DL2KI




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Re: [Elecraft] "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

[Doug Turnbull]

Dear Friends,
  Nor are SSB, RTTY and PSK the same as CW but they all serve a purpose.
Any technology which allows one to work weaker signals with lower power is
going to make DXCC easier.Even using CW it is infinitely easier to work
DXCC on multiple bands these days than back in the fifties, well maybe I
will make an exception for the 1958 era.There are so many aids and
radios are better.This is a technological hobby and now the guy with the
apartment and balcony might actually work DXCC.   Viva engineering.
  73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Monday 13 July 2020 15:39
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
Subject: [Elecraft] "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

I agree fully with Victor; though the difference may be even simpler:  

Making a QSO using CW is a ham doing something with a radio.  Making a QSO
with FT8 is a radio doing something for a ham.

Neither is better or worse; but they are different.

Ted, KN1CBR

--

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:41:41 +0300
From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"
Message-ID: <3ac27805-0645-14c9-582f-601efd94c...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

For me, it's simple.

When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am
connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the
military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the operators
on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, and to all the
hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.

I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling to
capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound of the
code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at the other end
with his or her hand on a key.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young age and
developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as my mother
tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at middle age or
older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/__;!!NCZxaNi9jForCP_SxB
KJCA!F4lkQrp7vnWsJyPT-T7iUPs1Sk1a79YI92FbY7WOC4FPuQvWxE1lsChUamJuUgiP$
.
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[Elecraft] K3 very slow to reach dialed rf output

[John]

When I dial up, or down rf output, it takes in excess of 30 seconds

to reach the output level, which is much lower than requested.

3 "bars" on the rf meter.  That looks to be 20 to 25 watts.

If I readjust the level, up or down, it takes another 30+

seconds and it will not go over 3 "bars".

Anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks.

73.

John.

ve7day.



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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re[2]: K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Keith Hamilton]

OK Dave -

I will check the relays as you suggest. In troubleshooting capacitors I
messed up
C74. I pulled it off the board and sent a request to Elecraft for a
replacement.
That may solve the problem. In the meantime I will check the coils on the
K13 to K15
relays and let you know what I find.

I did not see Don's post. I will check it out. So I will be waiting a bit
to fix this problem,

73 and thanks!
Keith N8CEP

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:36 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:

> Keith,
>
> I saw Don respond to this and he is right that K15 would be the common
> denominator if not for 15m. You can check to see if the coils are intact
> if you measure the resistance between pins 1 and 10 for each. It should
> be around 230 ohms or so. If you find one open or well away from that
> resistance, then it would indicate a bad coil on that relay.
>
> You can also measure the intended path through the relays for each band
> and make sure there are no unintended paths. If you can read the
> schematic, it shows the path with each relay in it's reset state. You
> would need to consult the table in Appendix B to see which relay(s) are
> active for a respective band and you can then measure the continuity of
> the intended path. You should also check any unintended paths which
> could indicate a problem.
>
> As Don stated, this is not a fun problem to find and will take some good
> debugging skills. So far, everything you've indicated seems to suggest
> the PLL oscillator and VCO circuits are working properly, but the range
> selection area is not producing the proper capacitance to allow the VCO
> to produce the proper frequency on those bands you indicated.
>
> If reading the schematic is a problem, let us know and I am sure between
> Don and myself, we can give you some step by step instructions for
> tracing through this problem.
>
> 73,
> Dave W8FGU
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Keith Hamilton" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 7/13/2020 9:34:03 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re[2]: K2 7747 VCO alignment problem
>
> >-- Forwarded message -
> >From: Keith Hamilton 
> >Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:19 PM
> >Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem
> >To: Dave Van Wallaghen 
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >Yes the frequency changes when turning the VFO knob when measuring with
> CAL
> >FCTR on TP1.
> >
> >I have checked the markings on C71, C72, C73, and C74 (C75 is not
> installed
> >yet). They are
> >all correct and I resoldered them to be sure.
> >
> >I am beginning to think I might have a bad relay K13, K14 or K15. My good
> >bands are 80,40 and
> >15 meters. My bad bands are 30,20,17,12 and 10 meters. Looking at the
> relay
> >table in appendix B
> >I am not sure which relay could be bad. How can I test them? Should I try
> >to replace them?
> >73,
> >Keith N8CEP
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:58 PM Dave Van Wallaghen 
> wrote:
> >
> >>  Ok Keith, just to make sure things are where we want on the bands that
> >>  seem to work, does the frequency change when turning the VFO knob when
> >>  measuring with CAL FCTR on TP1? If they do, then things are working ok.
> >>
> >>  For the bands that are locked at 8.28v, that is the max output from the
> >>  integrator circuit (U6B). This means that there is no lock between the
> PLL
> >>  Oscillator and the VCO circuit and the PLL chip (U4) is trying to
> drive the
> >>  varactors to provide more capacitance to the VCO circuit. The most
> likely
> >>  cause will be a misplaced capacitor in the VCO range selector (C71 -
> C75)
> >>  or a problem in the VCO circuit itself. But because this may be band
> >>  dependent, I would look first in that range selection circuit. Verify
> that
> >>  those caps are the proper values. They are easily misread and will
> cause
> >>  the type of thing you are seeing.
> >>
> >>  Also verify those varactor diodes are the proper type and in the right
> >>  places. Soldering issues are typically the leading cause of problems,
> so
> >>  check that also. If all looks right to you, you may want to signal
> trace
> >>  through that selection circuit to verify the proper relays and active
> for
> >>  the bands not working. There is a relay table in Appendix B that shows
> you
> >>  which relays are active for each band.
> >>
> >>  This is a brand new build, correct?
> >>
> >>  73,
> >>  Dave, W8FGU
> >>
> >>
> >>  On 7/13/2020 4:41:07 PM, "Keith Hamilton" 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  Thanks for your help Dave!
> >>
> >>  Yes. I was able to get 6 volts on R30 by turning L30. At first the
> voltage
> >>  was too high
> >>  so I adjusted the turns on T5 by spreading the red windings further
> apart.
> >>  Then I
> >>  was able to get to 6 volts.
> >>
> >>  I did a CAL FCTR with the probe on TP1 and the frequency set to 4000,
> >>  The reading is 8912.22
> >>
> >>  73 Keith N8CEP
> >>
> >>
> >>  On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Dave Van Wallaghen 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  Hi Keith,
> >>>
> >>>  Were you able to get 6

Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Wayne: Would you mind if I forwarded this to our ham newsletter editor 
for reprint? Thanks! k WB9FMC


On 7/12/2020 10:07 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

I have a friend about my age who got into amateur radio only a few years ago. 
Like many of us, he was enthusiastic about the technology. Intrigued with DX.

I showed him my station; we talked endlessly about gear. Later, I helped him 
put up a simple wire antenna.

Then, when his license arrived, he dove straight into FT8 and didn't look back. 
Within days, he'd worked all states, then DXCC. He'd bag a few rare ones over a 
light lunch, then pat his laptop on the back and congratulate his software app 
for its near-mythical ability to extract weak signals out of noise.

Within weeks, he'd mastered everything there was to know about this glorious 
new hobby.

Point. Click.

In this new world order, those of us who took the longer, slower path to 
ionospheric enlightenment -- and who still occasionally enjoy making waves by 
hand -- often fail to explain why.

I had failed to explain it to my friend. Even as hints of his boredom crept in, 
creating an opening, the best argument I'd made for trying CW was that he could 
do it without a computer. Coming in a weak second was the notion that CW was 
the original digital mode. For obvious reasons, I didn't bother with the 
classic argument about CW's signal-to-noise advantage over SSB.

I had all but given up.

Then, in a moment of delayed clarity, I decided on a different approach. I 
invited him to a weekday brunch. A bit of an escape. He willingly took the bait.

On the appointed day, arriving at his workplace, I bypassed the lobby's 
glistening elevators and climbed the four flights of stairs to his office. I 
insisted we take the stairs down, too.

"Why?" he asked. "And how'd you get up here so fast?"

I pointed out that I always chose stairs, when possible. That's why I wasn't 
out of breath. We hustled down, jockeying for position, and emerged on the 
ground floor invigorated by the effort.

"So, where are we going?" he asked. We'd been to every overrated twenty-dollar 
burger venue at least twice.

I replied that we'd be going someplace we'd never tried. My kitchen.

When we arrived, I put him to work chopping onions and broccoli and squeezing 
oranges while I whipped eggs into a froth and grated Swiss cheese. We ate our 
omelettes outside, in full sun and a cool breeze.

"What's for desert?" he asked. "Isn't there a frozen yogurt place a two-minute drive 
from here?"

I had something else in mind. Back in the kitchen, I handed him a water bottle, 
then strapped on a small pack I'd prepared earlier.

We walked a mile or so through my neighborhood, admiring the houses' varied 
architecture, ending up (as planned) at a local park festooned with blackberry 
bushes. The most accessible branches had been picked clean, but with teamwork 
and persistence we were able to gather several large handfuls of fat, ripe 
berries, which we devoured on the spot.

We'd been poked and scratched but didn't care.

"Doesn't brunch usually end with champagne?" he wondered aloud, admiring his 
wounds.

Not this time. I pulled out two bottles of craft beer that I'd obtained from a 
neighbor in trade for repairing his ancient home stereo. Carlos had spent years 
crafting an American pilsner to die for, sweating every detail, including 
iconic, hand-painted labels.

My friend accepted the bottle, then tried in vain to remove the cap. Not a 
twist-off.

"Opener?" he said.

I handed him a small pocket knife, an antique without specialty blades. He soon 
discovered it could not be used to remove the cap directly. He looked at me 
with a bemused expression, no doubt wondering what I had up my sleeve this time.

I pointed out that we were surrounded by white oaks, a species known for its 
hard wood. He got the message, smiled, and began hunting. Within seconds he'd 
collected a small fallen branch. I watched as he used the knife to fashion a 
few inches of it into a passable bottle opener. We popped the caps, toasted his 
new-found skill, and traded stories of our misspent youths.

"Oh, one more thing," I said.

I pulled a KX2 out of my pack, along with two lengths of wire. Of course he 
knew everything there was to know about Elecraft, and me, so he wasn't 
surprised when I also pulled out the rig's attachable keyer paddle. We threw 
one wire in the closest tree and laid the other on the ground.

He didn't have to ask whether I'd brought a laptop.

We listened to CW signals up and down 20 meters, which was open to Europe at 
the time. As he tuned in each station, I copied for him using pencil and paper. 
He'd learned Morse code, but only at very slow speeds.

After making a contact, I set the internal keyer speed to 10 words per minute 
and dialed power output to zero, for practice purposes, then showed him how to 
use the paddle. He smiled as he got the hang of it. Sending the full alphabet 
was a challenge, but he got there. The KX2 dec

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re[2]: K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Dave Van Wallaghen]

Keith,

I saw Don respond to this and he is right that K15 would be the common 
denominator if not for 15m. You can check to see if the coils are intact 
if you measure the resistance between pins 1 and 10 for each. It should 
be around 230 ohms or so. If you find one open or well away from that 
resistance, then it would indicate a bad coil on that relay.


You can also measure the intended path through the relays for each band 
and make sure there are no unintended paths. If you can read the 
schematic, it shows the path with each relay in it's reset state. You 
would need to consult the table in Appendix B to see which relay(s) are 
active for a respective band and you can then measure the continuity of 
the intended path. You should also check any unintended paths which 
could indicate a problem.


As Don stated, this is not a fun problem to find and will take some good 
debugging skills. So far, everything you've indicated seems to suggest 
the PLL oscillator and VCO circuits are working properly, but the range 
selection area is not producing the proper capacitance to allow the VCO 
to produce the proper frequency on those bands you indicated.


If reading the schematic is a problem, let us know and I am sure between 
Don and myself, we can give you some step by step instructions for 
tracing through this problem.


73,
Dave W8FGU

-- Original Message --
From: "Keith Hamilton" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 7/13/2020 9:34:03 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re[2]: K2 7747 VCO alignment problem


-- Forwarded message -
From: Keith Hamilton 
Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem
To: Dave Van Wallaghen 


Dave

Yes the frequency changes when turning the VFO knob when measuring with CAL
FCTR on TP1.

I have checked the markings on C71, C72, C73, and C74 (C75 is not installed
yet). They are
all correct and I resoldered them to be sure.

I am beginning to think I might have a bad relay K13, K14 or K15. My good
bands are 80,40 and
15 meters. My bad bands are 30,20,17,12 and 10 meters. Looking at the relay
table in appendix B
I am not sure which relay could be bad. How can I test them? Should I try
to replace them?
73,
Keith N8CEP


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:58 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:


 Ok Keith, just to make sure things are where we want on the bands that
 seem to work, does the frequency change when turning the VFO knob when
 measuring with CAL FCTR on TP1? If they do, then things are working ok.

 For the bands that are locked at 8.28v, that is the max output from the
 integrator circuit (U6B). This means that there is no lock between the PLL
 Oscillator and the VCO circuit and the PLL chip (U4) is trying to drive the
 varactors to provide more capacitance to the VCO circuit. The most likely
 cause will be a misplaced capacitor in the VCO range selector (C71 - C75)
 or a problem in the VCO circuit itself. But because this may be band
 dependent, I would look first in that range selection circuit. Verify that
 those caps are the proper values. They are easily misread and will cause
 the type of thing you are seeing.

 Also verify those varactor diodes are the proper type and in the right
 places. Soldering issues are typically the leading cause of problems, so
 check that also. If all looks right to you, you may want to signal trace
 through that selection circuit to verify the proper relays and active for
 the bands not working. There is a relay table in Appendix B that shows you
 which relays are active for each band.

 This is a brand new build, correct?

 73,
 Dave, W8FGU


 On 7/13/2020 4:41:07 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:

 Thanks for your help Dave!

 Yes. I was able to get 6 volts on R30 by turning L30. At first the voltage
 was too high
 so I adjusted the turns on T5 by spreading the red windings further apart.
 Then I
 was able to get to 6 volts.

 I did a CAL FCTR with the probe on TP1 and the frequency set to 4000,
 The reading is 8912.22

 73 Keith N8CEP


 On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:


 Hi Keith,

 Were you able to get 6v on R30 by tuning L30? Did you have to bring the
 voltage down or up by moving the windings on T5?

 If you would, set the VFO to 4 MHz and do a CAL FCTR on TP1 and let me
 know what the reading is. I'm just looking for a couple of clues before
 we proceed.

 73,
 Dave, W8FGU


 On 7/13/2020 2:52:11 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:

 >I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5
 windings
 >and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
 >(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My
 readings
 >are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
 >,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.
 >
 >I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271).
 The
 >diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
 >over

Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Robert Hand]

I still say, “appliance operator “

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP  
> wrote:
> 
> I didn't notice myself "denigrating" anything or "talking down" to anyone. I 
> explained why I like CW, even though other modes have their own advantages.
> 
> Regarding "increasing knowledge" and "innovating," I suspect that 90% of the 
> guys pointing and clicking their way to DXCC with K1JT's code couldn't 
> explain how it works.
> 
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> .
>> On 13/07/2020 23:11, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> Connecting to history and making history are not the same thing. Doing 
>> things the same way they were done a hundred years ago may make a 
>> "connection" for you. But hams are supposed to innovate,  invent and 
>> increase the knowledge. So you buy or build equipment with way more ability 
>> than to send simple CW, so you can do simple CW? Yes, CW is great stuff, but 
>> it sure isn't innovative, nor does in increase the knowledge of 
>> communication. As a group we should encourage others to explore new 
>> communications systems, not denigrate them as "not REAL HAM RADIO". Some of 
>> you people should be ashamed of yourselves for your attitudes. We do not 
>> want Amateur Radio to die with our generation, so we should encourage new 
>> folks to do new things, not talk down to them because they don't choose to 
>> spend 99% of their operating time pounding brass. They don't give you static 
>> about taking up bandwidth with your ancient operating mode, why hassle them 
>> because they can make Qs below the noise level. Oh yes, my DXCC certificate 
>> says "Mixed" on it. I quit counting when I got that.
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 03:25 Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP > > wrote:
>>Actually, I'm building a regenerative receiver now. I have to use JFETs
>>because I got rid of all my tube stuff due to lack of room. But of
>>course I will continue to benefit from the DSP in my K3, and its keyer
>>(although I have a bug that I use once in a while).
>>But those things don't take away the connection to history, they
>>make it
>>better. The point for me isn't to use the same gear as they did in
>>1912,
>>but to enter the Morse space as they did. If I can do it with equipment
>>that is more stable and effective, so much the better.
>>After all, a modern sailboat is very much more sophisticated than an
>>old
>>one, but sailing is still sailing.
>>73,
>>Victor, 4X6GP
>>Rehovot, Israel
>>Formerly K2VCO
>>CWops no. 5
>>http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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[Elecraft] Fwd: Re[2]: K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Keith Hamilton]

-- Forwarded message -
From: Keith Hamilton 
Date: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem
To: Dave Van Wallaghen 


Dave

Yes the frequency changes when turning the VFO knob when measuring with CAL
FCTR on TP1.

I have checked the markings on C71, C72, C73, and C74 (C75 is not installed
yet). They are
all correct and I resoldered them to be sure.

I am beginning to think I might have a bad relay K13, K14 or K15. My good
bands are 80,40 and
15 meters. My bad bands are 30,20,17,12 and 10 meters. Looking at the relay
table in appendix B
I am not sure which relay could be bad. How can I test them? Should I try
to replace them?
73,
Keith N8CEP


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:58 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:

> Ok Keith, just to make sure things are where we want on the bands that
> seem to work, does the frequency change when turning the VFO knob when
> measuring with CAL FCTR on TP1? If they do, then things are working ok.
>
> For the bands that are locked at 8.28v, that is the max output from the
> integrator circuit (U6B). This means that there is no lock between the PLL
> Oscillator and the VCO circuit and the PLL chip (U4) is trying to drive the
> varactors to provide more capacitance to the VCO circuit. The most likely
> cause will be a misplaced capacitor in the VCO range selector (C71 - C75)
> or a problem in the VCO circuit itself. But because this may be band
> dependent, I would look first in that range selection circuit. Verify that
> those caps are the proper values. They are easily misread and will cause
> the type of thing you are seeing.
>
> Also verify those varactor diodes are the proper type and in the right
> places. Soldering issues are typically the leading cause of problems, so
> check that also. If all looks right to you, you may want to signal trace
> through that selection circuit to verify the proper relays and active for
> the bands not working. There is a relay table in Appendix B that shows you
> which relays are active for each band.
>
> This is a brand new build, correct?
>
> 73,
> Dave, W8FGU
>
>
> On 7/13/2020 4:41:07 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:
>
> Thanks for your help Dave!
>
> Yes. I was able to get 6 volts on R30 by turning L30. At first the voltage
> was too high
> so I adjusted the turns on T5 by spreading the red windings further apart.
> Then I
> was able to get to 6 volts.
>
> I did a CAL FCTR with the probe on TP1 and the frequency set to 4000,
> The reading is 8912.22
>
> 73 Keith N8CEP
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:
>
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> Were you able to get 6v on R30 by tuning L30? Did you have to bring the
>> voltage down or up by moving the windings on T5?
>>
>> If you would, set the VFO to 4 MHz and do a CAL FCTR on TP1 and let me
>> know what the reading is. I'm just looking for a couple of clues before
>> we proceed.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave, W8FGU
>>
>>
>> On 7/13/2020 2:52:11 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:
>>
>> >I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5
>> windings
>> >and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
>> >(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My
>> readings
>> >are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
>> >,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.
>> >
>> >I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271).
>> The
>> >diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
>> >over the solder connections of K13, K14 and K15.
>> >
>> >Now I'm stuck. Any help will be appreciated.
>> >
>> >Keioth Hamilton N8CEP
>> >__
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>>
>>
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[Elecraft] Very pleased with KV5J Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Macy monkeys]

I just finished hooking up the remote KV5J DDU for my KPA500. It arrived today 
via USPS extremely well packed. Hook up was a snap. The unit does exactly what 
Keith says it does. And it looks terrific! The display is not too bright, not 
too dim. Perfect! It is very professional looking in a stout metal housing. 
Keith was quick to answer my emails. 

Very pleased! I have no connection to Keith or his products other than being a 
satisfied customer.

John K7FD


> On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:04 PM, Macy monkeys  wrote:
> 
> I purchased it exactly for those reasons; my KPA500 is on a shelf under my 
> operating desk. The DDU will enable me to see what I can't easily see now. 
> Perfect solution.
> 
> And yes, my DDU arrived today and I will soon give it a shakedown cruise...
> 
> John K7FD
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Keith Ennis via Elecraft 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Andy,
>> 
>> It's design was not to replace the KPA500 utility if that is what you want
>> to use.  It was designed to show the 5 most often used readings from the
>> front panel that can only be seen one at a time.
>> 
>> Plus it does not use any PC resources.  Monitor space is limited to most
>> operators.  Same with com ports.
>> 
>> Place the KPA500 wherever you want and place the DDU next to your radio.
>> Saves on heat, noise and desktop space.
>> 
>> Thanks for your input.73
>> 
>> Keith,KV5J
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Macy monkeys]

I purchased it exactly for those reasons; my KPA500 is on a shelf under my 
operating desk. The DDU will enable me to see what I can't easily see now. 
Perfect solution.

And yes, my DDU arrived today and I will soon give it a shakedown cruise...

John K7FD

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Keith Ennis via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andy,
> 
> It's design was not to replace the KPA500 utility if that is what you want
> to use.  It was designed to show the 5 most often used readings from the
> front panel that can only be seen one at a time.
> 
> Plus it does not use any PC resources.  Monitor space is limited to most
> operators.  Same with com ports.
> 
> Place the KPA500 wherever you want and place the DDU next to your radio.
> Saves on heat, noise and desktop space.
> 
> Thanks for your input.73
> 
> Keith,KV5J
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 encoders

[Don Wilhelm]

Jerry,

If some of the PC trace is left, just scrape that down to the copper, 
tin it and solder a wire to the PC trace and the encoder pin.
Look for any evidence of a PC trace running on the other side of the 
board to that same pin.  If there is, hopefully simply soldering on that 
side of the board may be OK, but if not, a wire on that side of the 
board may be necessary as well.


The board uses thru-plated holes which carry signals from one side of 
the board to the other, some of which have components mounted in them. 
If you lifted a trace, you likely also destroyed the thru-plating, so be 
aware that you may have to do some repair on both sides of the board.


This is all just general information, I do not have the particulars of 
the signal line in question.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/13/2020 5:17 PM, Jerry Ford wrote:

Good afternoon all:

Gang:   I need some advise from anyone familiar with the KX3
control board.

I replaced the encoder for  AF/RF on my radio and while doing that,
I managed to lift the trace that runs under that encoder.

Can anyone tell me where that trace goes ???

It run's under the encoder and the capacitors that are between Z2 and Z3.

I pulled up the schematic and that trace should be the SWCOM.  If that's
correct,  Then it's in series with pin 2 of all 4 encoders.  That being the
case,
it becomes an easy fix below the board.

Before I do anything like that,  I wanted to check with you guys and make
sure I'm correct.

Any advise would certainly be appreciated

73  Jerry   N0JRN
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Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Charlie T]

Mine DXCC certificate says "50 MHZ"
Actually up to about 160 by now, all on SSB or CW.

73, Charlie k3ICH




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Jim McDonald
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 3:17 PM
To: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

And I have one that says "RTTY" but it's now a Digital DXCC.  I had to
resort to FT8 to work Monaco to get on the Digital Honor Roll, with the
other 330 having been on RTTY.

Jim N7US

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 11:37 AM Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
wrote:

> I wouldn't bother. My DXCC certificate says "CW" on it.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 13/07/2020 18:39, Andy Durbin wrote:
> > "Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as 
> > watching grass grow !"
> >
> > Each to his own of course but, for me, the pleasure of making a 
> > contact has almost nothing to do with the mode used and almost 
> > everything to do with how much I wanted to contact that station.  I 
> > say "almost" because I still enjoy CW more than other modes.
> >
> > How many would refuse to work Bouvet if FT8 is the only mode they 
> > choose to use when/if it is activated?
> >
> > Andy, k3wyc
>
>
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[Elecraft] KX3 encoders

[Jerry Ford]

Good afternoon all:

Gang:   I need some advise from anyone familiar with the KX3
control board.

I replaced the encoder for  AF/RF on my radio and while doing that,
I managed to lift the trace that runs under that encoder.

Can anyone tell me where that trace goes ???

It run's under the encoder and the capacitors that are between Z2 and Z3.

I pulled up the schematic and that trace should be the SWCOM.  If that's
correct,  Then it's in series with pin 2 of all 4 encoders.  That being the
case,
it becomes an easy fix below the board.

Before I do anything like that,  I wanted to check with you guys and make
sure I'm correct.

Any advise would certainly be appreciated

73  Jerry   N0JRN
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[Elecraft] Radio modes - pluses and minuses

[Bill Frantz]

I hear a lot about the various modes, so I guess I'll put my oar 
in the pond. Before I start, I'll say that each mode has it's 
advantages, and so I am glad to have QSOs from all the ones I 
mention below in my log.


There are a number of measures of "goodness" for modes. They 
include: Bandwidth, ease of tuning, complexity of equipment, 
noise suppression, signal awareness, features, etc.


While some of these are obvious, others deserve some explanation.

Noise suppression measures how easy it is to understand a 
message. FM is really good here.


Signal awareness is a measure of how easy it is to notice other 
signals on your frequency. These signals can be your QSO partner 
trying to get your attention, or other stations. Full break-in 
CW is about as good as it gets while FT4/8 with its rigid time 
slots is about as bad as it gets.


I think that bandwidth used is an important factor. When 
operators complain that people using a mode with 50 or 100 Hz 
bandwidth are using up "their" spectrum, I'm not very 
sympathetic. In amateur radio, it's our spectrum. If we don't 
use spectrum, it may become BigCommCorp's spectrum. (I AM in 
favor of following well thought out band plans.)


There are the wide band modes: AM, FM, digital voice, SSB -- 
arbitrarily any thing over 250 Hz -- the width of my narrow 
filter. AM is a classic mode, and goes well with your Collins or 
Drake equipment. It is easy to tune and does a nice job of 
producing the heterodynes or yore. With 6 or more KHz of 
bandwidth it is quite wide.


FM is very popular on VHF and above, but is even more of a 
spectrum hog than AM. It is easy to tune, and tends to have very 
low noise. Receivers tend to lock on to the strongest signal on 
the frequency, which can be an advantage or a disadvantage. The 
FAA went to AM for airplane radios to be able to hear a weak 
station as well as a strong one on the same frequency. 
Particularly on 2M, we are running out of bandwidth. Converting 
to a more bandwidth efficient mode would be an option, but 
consider all those then useless Baofengs, Yaesus, iComs, etc. 
The change over wouldn't be pretty.


SSB is our workhorse for HF voice. We can understand 
communications in a 2 KHz bandwidth, although 2.7 KHz is easier 
on the ears. It is noisy and hard to tune.


Digital voice - Doesn't yet have critical mass on HF. Might be 
nice, but probably won't work well at ESP signal levels. Can be 
slightly narrower bandwidth than SSB. Can have features like 
automatic message forwarding, digital streams at the same time 
as a voice stream etc. Just look at what the proprietary Yaesu 
and iCom modes do on VHF/UHF. They are not simple to set up or 
use, but they are loaded with features.


Amateur TV etc. are proof that amateur radio is a very big tent.


So now we have the narrow bandwidth modes. I'm only going to 
mention a few of them -- there are so many.


CW is the classic. I'm glad people don't still use spark gap 
transmitters to enjoy the full retro-experience. It has the 
great advantage of needing very little in the way of equipment. 
A Rockmite is a large complex radio compared with the minimum of 
a simple transmitter with a regen receiver. It has the 
disadvantage of requiring a lot of operator skill. Those 
operators who have the skill are rightfully proud of their abilities.


When you apply modern technology to the problem you can get 
something like a KX2 which can send/receive CW, tune your 
antenna, and log your QSOs == all in a package which will fit in 
a coat pocket.


Another advantage of CW, with a modern radio, is that you can 
switch between receive and transmit quickly enough to determine 
if someone is trying to transmit on your frequency while you are 
still sending.


RTTY is the classic digital mode. It needs a computer or a 
Teletype machine to decode and encode the signals. It is error 
prone, so in a contest you frequently have to send calls twice 
for redundancy. It is also quite wide for a narrow mode. You can 
have some interesting fun with RTTY. It is possible to 
interleave stations where the mark frequency of one station is 
between the mark and space frequencies of another, which goes to 
show that 170 Hz is wider than needed. Since transmissions 
aren't synchronized, it is possible to notice someone else 
transmitting on the same frequency as you, but noticing them is 
nowhere as likely as with CW.


An amusing story: In a contest I heard 2 stations interleaving 
RTTY CQs on 20M. They were on exactly the same frequency and 
their mutual sync was perfect. I think they were in each other's 
skip zone. I managed to work both of them.


The PSK modes were designed for rag chewing and require a 
computer. That computer is built into some radios, e.g. K3, KX3, 
KX2. PSK31 uses 31 Hz of bandwidth. Like the FT modes, they like 
to have a number of users in a 2000 to 4000 Hz chunk of 
spectrum. You might be able to cram 13 or so stations in a 1K 
bandwidth. There are some error de

Re: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Don Wilhelm]

Keith,

Not a nice problem to address.  I can give you some troubleshooting 
information if you are willing to hang in there with me.
Eliminate the "[Elecraft]" from the subject line and reply to me 
directly (not to the list).


Relay K15 is common on all those bands, but not on 80 and 40m, but that 
does not explain why 15 meters is OK.
Check the resistance between pins 1 and 10 of all 3 relays - that is the 
coil resistance, and if I recall, it is about 235 ohms.


Check that C73 and C74 are the correct values.

If that does not reveal the problem, you will have to measure the 
open/closed state of the relays for the next step.  Can you find those 
relays on the schematic?  They are all shown in the reset state.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/13/2020 2:52 PM, Keith Hamilton wrote:

I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5 windings
and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My readings
are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.

I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271). The
diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
over the solder connections of K13, K14 and K15.


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Keith Hamilton]

Thanks for your help Dave!

Yes. I was able to get 6 volts on R30 by turning L30. At first the voltage
was too high
so I adjusted the turns on T5 by spreading the red windings further apart.
Then I
was able to get to 6 volts.

I did a CAL FCTR with the probe on TP1 and the frequency set to 4000,
The reading is 8912.22

73 Keith N8CEP


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:59 PM Dave Van Wallaghen  wrote:

> Hi Keith,
>
> Were you able to get 6v on R30 by tuning L30? Did you have to bring the
> voltage down or up by moving the windings on T5?
>
> If you would, set the VFO to 4 MHz and do a CAL FCTR on TP1 and let me
> know what the reading is. I'm just looking for a couple of clues before
> we proceed.
>
> 73,
> Dave, W8FGU
>
>
> On 7/13/2020 2:52:11 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:
>
> >I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5
> windings
> >and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
> >(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My readings
> >are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
> >,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.
> >
> >I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271).
> The
> >diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
> >over the solder connections of K13, K14 and K15.
> >
> >Now I'm stuck. Any help will be appreciated.
> >
> >Keioth Hamilton N8CEP
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I didn't notice myself "denigrating" anything or "talking down" to 
anyone. I explained why I like CW, even though other modes have their 
own advantages.


Regarding "increasing knowledge" and "innovating," I suspect that 90% of 
the guys pointing and clicking their way to DXCC with K1JT's code 
couldn't explain how it works.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 13/07/2020 23:11, Jim Rhodes wrote:
Connecting to history and making history are not the same thing. Doing 
things the same way they were done a hundred years ago may make a 
"connection" for you. But hams are supposed to innovate,  invent and 
increase the knowledge. So you buy or build equipment with way more 
ability than to send simple CW, so you can do simple CW? Yes, CW is 
great stuff, but it sure isn't innovative, nor does in increase the 
knowledge of communication. As a group we should encourage others to 
explore new communications systems, not denigrate them as "not REAL HAM 
RADIO". Some of you people should be ashamed of yourselves for your 
attitudes. We do not want Amateur Radio to die with our generation, so 
we should encourage new folks to do new things, not talk down to them 
because they don't choose to spend 99% of their operating time pounding 
brass. They don't give you static about taking up bandwidth with your 
ancient operating mode, why hassle them because they can make Qs below 
the noise level. Oh yes, my DXCC certificate says "Mixed" on it. I quit 
counting when I got that.


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 03:25 Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP > wrote:


Actually, I'm building a regenerative receiver now. I have to use JFETs
because I got rid of all my tube stuff due to lack of room. But of
course I will continue to benefit from the DSP in my K3, and its keyer
(although I have a bug that I use once in a while).

But those things don't take away the connection to history, they
make it
better. The point for me isn't to use the same gear as they did in
1912,
but to enter the Morse space as they did. If I can do it with equipment
that is more stable and effective, so much the better.

After all, a modern sailboat is very much more sophisticated than an
old
one, but sailing is still sailing.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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Re: [Elecraft] On Second thought ,,,,,,

[Donald Schliesser]

Thanks to Peter, W0LLN, who let me know why my message was getting 
stripped.  Because I was sending HTML.  It has been so long since I have 
posted anything on the Reflector that I forgot about that.


Wayne,

Who said you were only a technical guy? Great Story!  If you ever need a 
second career, I know where you can go!


Thanks for making the Elecraft Reflector more interesting and raising 
the bar for the future!


73, Donald K6RV

Longtime K3 Owner.

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Jim Rhodes]

Connecting to history and making history are not the same thing. Doing
things the same way they were done a hundred years ago may make a
"connection" for you. But hams are supposed to innovate,  invent and
increase the knowledge. So you buy or build equipment with way more ability
than to send simple CW, so you can do simple CW? Yes, CW is great stuff,
but it sure isn't innovative, nor does in increase the knowledge of
communication. As a group we should encourage others to explore new
communications systems, not denigrate them as "not REAL HAM RADIO". Some of
you people should be ashamed of yourselves for your attitudes. We do not
want Amateur Radio to die with our generation, so we should encourage new
folks to do new things, not talk down to them because they don't choose to
spend 99% of their operating time pounding brass. They don't give you
static about taking up bandwidth with your ancient operating mode, why
hassle them because they can make Qs below the noise level. Oh yes, my DXCC
certificate says "Mixed" on it. I quit counting when I got that.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 03:25 Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
wrote:

> Actually, I'm building a regenerative receiver now. I have to use JFETs
> because I got rid of all my tube stuff due to lack of room. But of
> course I will continue to benefit from the DSP in my K3, and its keyer
> (although I have a bug that I use once in a while).
>
> But those things don't take away the connection to history, they make it
> better. The point for me isn't to use the same gear as they did in 1912,
> but to enter the Morse space as they did. If I can do it with equipment
> that is more stable and effective, so much the better.
>
> After all, a modern sailboat is very much more sophisticated than an old
> one, but sailing is still sailing.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> .
> On 13/07/2020 10:59, David Gilbert wrote:
> >
> > Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as
> > easily go back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and
> > regenerative receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't.  The gear
> > you operate compares little in form, fit or function to anything those
> > folks used back then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot of
> > digital signal processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer instead
> > of a hand key.  Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine somebody at
> > his keyboard on the other end as I could if he was operating a paddle.
> > Most DXing and almost all contesting is already somebody simply pounding
> > on a function key on a keyboard.
> >
> > And like I said before, it is entirely possible to preserve the bulk of
> > everything you mention and still use modern signal processing to make
> > human connections more achievable.  WSJT-X just doesn't happen to be
> > that at this point, but that doesn't mean something else couldn't be.
> >
> > Dave   AB7E
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/13/2020 12:41 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> >> For me, it's simple.
> >>
> >> When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am
> >> connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the
> >> military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the
> >> operators on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes,
> >> and to all the hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.
> >>
> >> I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling
> >> to capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound
> >> of the code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at
> >> the other end with his or her hand on a key.
> >>
> >> I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young
> >> age and developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as
> >> my mother tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at
> >> middle age or older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Victor, 4X6GP
> >> Rehovot, Israel
> >> Formerly K2VCO
> >> CWops no. 5
> >> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> >> .
> >> On 13/07/2020 5:06, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> >>>
>  On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode,
>  DXing mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well
>  configured digital signal processing scheme like that which is
>  under FT8, except with a different user interface than either
>  WSJT-X or JS8,  could be equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db
>  better S/N ... possibly by an even greater margin if the decoding
>  allowed errors instead of being all or nothing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Except that (a) you don't have to know CW, and (b) you don't need a
> >>> key. There goes 73% of its charm :)
> >>>
> >>> Wayne N6KR
> >> __
> >> Elecraft m

Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: On Second thought ,,,,,,

[Jim Brown]

Blank posts. This reflector does not reproduce formatted text

73, Jim K9YC

On 7/13/2020 9:48 AM, Donald Schliesser wrote:


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Dave Van Wallaghen]

Hi Keith,

Were you able to get 6v on R30 by tuning L30? Did you have to bring the 
voltage down or up by moving the windings on T5?


If you would, set the VFO to 4 MHz and do a CAL FCTR on TP1 and let me 
know what the reading is. I'm just looking for a couple of clues before 
we proceed.


73,
Dave, W8FGU


On 7/13/2020 2:52:11 PM, "Keith Hamilton"  wrote:


I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5 windings
and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My readings
are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.

I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271). The
diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
over the solder connections of K13, K14 and K15.

Now I'm stuck. Any help will be appreciated.

Keioth Hamilton N8CEP
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[Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

Andy,

It's design was not to replace the KPA500 utility if that is what you want
to use.  It was designed to show the 5 most often used readings from the
front panel that can only be seen one at a time.

Plus it does not use any PC resources.  Monitor space is limited to most
operators.  Same with com ports.

Place the KPA500 wherever you want and place the DDU next to your radio.
Saves on heat, noise and desktop space.

Thanks for your input.73

Keith,KV5J

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Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Jim McDonald]

And I have one that says "RTTY" but it's now a Digital DXCC.  I had to
resort to FT8 to work Monaco to get on the Digital Honor Roll, with the
other 330 having been on RTTY.

Jim N7US

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 11:37 AM Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
wrote:

> I wouldn't bother. My DXCC certificate says "CW" on it.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 13/07/2020 18:39, Andy Durbin wrote:
> > "Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as
> > watching grass grow !"
> >
> > Each to his own of course but, for me, the pleasure of making a
> > contact has almost nothing to do with the mode used and almost
> > everything to do with how much I wanted to contact that station.  I
> > say "almost" because I still enjoy CW more than other modes.
> >
> > How many would refuse to work Bouvet if FT8 is the only mode they
> > choose to use when/if it is activated?
> >
> > Andy, k3wyc
>
>
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[Elecraft] K2 7747 VCO alignment problem

[Keith Hamilton]

I am having trouble with the K2 VCO alignment. I have moved the T5 windings
and obtained 6 volts at the left end of R30. I then went on to the chart
(table 6-1) to measure the voltages at the listed frequencies. My readings
are ok on 80 40 and 15 meters (between 1.5 to 7.5 volts) but on 30,20,17
,12 and 10 meters the voltage is 8.29 volts and does not change.

I have checked the solder connections of T5 and the value of C72 (271). The
diodes D21,D22,D23, D24, D25 and D26 are correctly installed. I also went
over the solder connections of K13, K14 and K15.

Now I'm stuck. Any help will be appreciated.

Keioth Hamilton N8CEP
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Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Lou W0FK]

I've used both Teamviewer and TightVNC, using my laptop to log onto my main
PC. I prefer Teamviewer because the screen real estate is larger, and I can
easily switch between my 2 monitors on the PC I log into. I've not used it
off my house's network. 

The only issue I've found is that I need to make sure I don't play with the
audio settings on the laptop after I've logged in, as it also affects the
audio settings on the main PC. I mute the laptop audio first and then log
on. Otherwise, I have to open the sound control (Windows 10) and change the
speaker setting to get reset transmit drive levels.

Also remember to set a personal password under options and allow "easy
access" to your main PC. Otherwise you'll need to enter the main PC's
randomly generated password, which is kinda hard if you're not in front of
it. 

73, Lou W0FK



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[David Gilbert]

Oh give me a break.  On any given day or night the CW frequencies are 
dead as a wombat except for FT8.


And I never proposed "saving" CW anyway.  Just the opposite ... I 
proposed modifying FT8 so that it had the flexibility of CW.


Dave  AB7E




On 7/13/2020 7:57 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.


73,
Drew
AF2Z



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Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Lyn Norstad]

Brian -

I use a combination of Teamviewer and Zoom when I am "Elmering" some of our
local group on the various digital modes.

It's a great combination!

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bht...@juno.com
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 11:24 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"


Has anyone tried TeamViewer using the mode FT8? Was in QST a couple
months ago. Just another facet of this great hobby. 

73,
Brian K1DIH


That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally
something for everyone.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:
> 
> 
> Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
> still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't
as 
> basic as I think would be desirable.
> 
> Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
> mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
> digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
> with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
> equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
> even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all

> or nothing.
> 
> I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern

> digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.
> 
> People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
> WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
> chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
> utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
> processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
>> Enter JS8Call.
>>
>> All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, 
>> RTTY and SSB rolled into one.
>>
>> If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan 
>> Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to 
>> have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.
>>
>> http://js8call.com/
>>
>> 73
>> Lyn, W0LEN
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"
>>
>>
>> Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
>> doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
>> requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and
those
>> time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
>> rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
>> possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
>> increase the number of characters for the same time frame.
>>
>> It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
>> the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
>> transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
>> performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
>> single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
>> needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
>> format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and
we
>> could spread out like we do for every other mode.
>>
>> I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
>> checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
>> CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
>> would reduce the character count, though, all other things being
equal.
>>
>> The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is
extremely
>> powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
>> flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out
of
>> hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of
it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> Yeah, great, reliable at or below the nois

[Elecraft] Rack-mount K4

[Thomas Warren]

Will it be possible to 'fully' control a rack-mounted K4 via Mouse and/or K-Pod 
through a PC Monitor located a foot or so from each other? 

Thanks, Tom W4TMW
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[Elecraft] Remote station ops

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

Not to allow thread hijacking (now renamed at least);

One of my goals is to allow each component of the station to be 
manageable by a computer, in part for the purposes of operation when I 
travel.  Once that goal has been met (99% successful, a couple things 
are 'better' with eyes on), using TeamViewer (and Skype for phone modes) 
is simple.


I've done this for years, successfully but it requires solid 3G or 
better at the remote end, which is often a far greater challenge.


Rick NK7I


On 7/13/2020 9:24 AM, bht...@juno.com wrote:

Has anyone tried TeamViewer using the mode FT8? Was in QST a couple
months ago. Just another facet of this great hobby.

73,
Brian K1DIH


That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally
something for everyone.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:


Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it
still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't

as

basic as I think would be desirable.

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing
mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured
digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except
with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be
equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an
even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all
or nothing.

I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern
digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.

People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer
WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag
chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still
utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal
processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.

73,
Dave   AB7E


On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Enter JS8Call.

All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW,
RTTY and SSB rolled into one.

If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan
Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to
have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.

http://js8call.com/

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The

Stairs"


Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and

those

time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
increase the number of characters for the same time frame.

It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and

we

could spread out like we do for every other mode.

I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
would reduce the character count, though, all other things being

equal.

The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is

extremely

powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out

of

hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of

it.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
what's the point?

I mean seriously

Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

Just as one can go from an electric or petroleum powered vehicle back to 
cart and horse (the common factor being wheels), doesn't mean that the 
history to get from there to here must be ignored (or honored).


It doesn't matter the mode, ties into history will still exist and can 
be honored (or ignored), even if elements are destroyed (statues or old 
unused modes).  And ham radio excels at exploring modes and methods.  
FT8 (and RTTY before that) is merely a stopping point on the line of 
history, something 'better' will come along (always has, always will, a 
constant) to fill the (momentary) needs.


The primary advantage (to some) of CW or phone is that it's human brain 
effort and skill, via the radio technology, that gives a sense of 
accomplishment (pride) while for some including the ties to history, the 
paths taken to get here.  For others, a complete technological contact 
with minimal effort, is what they seek and the world of ham radio allows 
that too.


All modes are valid and equal; just as casual, contest or rapid fire DX 
appeals to some, it suits the needs and purpose of the operator; to 
ENJOY what is available.


My satisfaction comes from using different modes (lately FT8 while it's 
popular AND CW and phone) to prove access to all parts of the planet 
(DXing) with a station that I assembled and built from what I could 
afford or manage to do the best (sometimes easiest) I can manage.  My 
'competition' is me, my motivation is always to do better.  I confine it 
with other limits too (budget, space used) because I don't want numerous 
towers or a super station and because that would affect my other 
enjoyable concerns (the view for one).


My preference is for a complete, simple station but that also means a 
group of single point failures exists (one of my choices).


If another has different ideals, there is room for that too, it's a 
personal set of choices.


Rick NK7I


On 7/13/2020 12:59 AM, David Gilbert wrote:


Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as 
easily go back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and 
regenerative receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't. The gear 
you operate compares little in form, fit or function to anything those 
folks used back then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot 
of digital signal processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer 
instead of a hand key.  Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine 
somebody at his keyboard on the other end as I could if he was 
operating a paddle.  Most DXing and almost all contesting is already 
somebody simply pounding on a function key on a keyboard.

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Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Wes]

Although I have little use for FT8 I did try it early on and from time to time I 
try it again.  I have learned that to work DX with a modest station such as I 
have, some skill in signal placement and timing is important.  Unfortunately, 
FT8 removes the timing trick, but signal placement does make a difference.


My gripes with the mode is that it's too easy for DX stations to plop down on an 
FT8 freq and never check propagation or operate on traditional modes.  Another 
is that ARRL hasn't seen fit to create a separate DXCC award for these modes, 
but has lumped it in with RTTY (which has been downgraded to "Digital").  My 
DXCC certificate says, "RTTY" and I want to keep it that way.


Wes  N7WS


On 7/13/2020 8:48 AM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

My two cents: FT8 is a bit more than using a computer to make contacts. Believe 
it or not, there is skill involved. Just try working a DX station when a load 
of others are trying. Can you say “pile up”? It ain’t simple.


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Grant Youngman]

That’s definitely true.  Although I do have a gripe (is it FT4?) with the 
software that has arbitrarily plopped its users down in what was just a few 
months ago the home of mostly CW QRP activity on some bands.  There does seem 
to be a need for coordination.

Of course, I’m also old enough to remember, when SSB was beginning its surge 
because of the growing availability of good commercial gear.   At the time, SSB 
was mostly relegated to the lower 25 KHz of most phone bands.  AM ops would 
jump on anyone branching out from the then “SSB ghetto”.  Times change and 
nothing changes .. it just morphs into new groups co-opting spectrum from 
someone else :-)   Still … 

Grant NQ5T

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:40 AM, Lyn Norstad  wrote:
> 
> That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally 
> something for everyone.
> 
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Josh Fiden]

I use TeamViewer to run FT8 but over a local network. Works great for that. 

73
Josh W6XU 

Sent from my mobile device

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 9:26 AM, bht...@juno.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried TeamViewer using the mode FT8? Was in QST a couple
> months ago. Just another facet of this great hobby. 
> 
> 73,
> Brian K1DIH
> 
> 
> That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally
> something for everyone.
> 
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
> Stairs"
> 
> Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
> SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
> assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
> perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.
> 
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
> 
> 
> 
>> On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
>> still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't
> as 
>> basic as I think would be desirable.
>> 
>> Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
>> mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
>> digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
>> with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
>> equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
>> even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all
> 
>> or nothing.
>> 
>> I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern
> 
>> digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.
>> 
>> People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
>> WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
>> chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
>> utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
>> processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
>>> Enter JS8Call.
>>> 
>>> All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, 
>>> RTTY and SSB rolled into one.
>>> 
>>> If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan 
>>> Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to 
>>> have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.
>>> 
>>> http://js8call.com/
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> Lyn, W0LEN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
> Stairs"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
>>> doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
>>> requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and
> those
>>> time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
>>> rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
>>> possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
>>> increase the number of characters for the same time frame.
>>> 
>>> It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
>>> the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
>>> transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
>>> performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
>>> single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
>>> needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
>>> format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and
> we
>>> could spread out like we do for every other mode.
>>> 
>>> I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
>>> checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
>>> CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
>>> would reduce the character count, though, all other things being
> equal.
>>> 
>>> The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is
> extremely
>>> powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
>>> flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out
> of
>>> hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of
> it.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Dave   AB7E
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
 Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
 doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that

[Elecraft] Fwd: Re: On Second thought ,,,,,,

[Donald Schliesser]

[Elecraft] : Re: On Second thought ,,,,,,

[Donald Schliesser]

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Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I wouldn't bother. My DXCC certificate says "CW" on it.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 13/07/2020 18:39, Andy Durbin wrote:

"Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as
watching grass grow !"

Each to his own of course but, for me, the pleasure of making a
contact has almost nothing to do with the mode used and almost
everything to do with how much I wanted to contact that station.  I
say "almost" because I still enjoy CW more than other modes.

How many would refuse to work Bouvet if FT8 is the only mode they
choose to use when/if it is activated?

Andy, k3wyc 

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Re: [Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[DC]

I used to use it but it was a bit of a pain and they send you span 
everyday.  I now use Chrome Remote which works great for FT8. Very stable.


Richard

K6VV


On 7/13/2020 9:24 AM, bht...@juno.com wrote:

Has anyone tried TeamViewer using the mode FT8? Was in QST a couple
months ago. Just another facet of this great hobby.

73,
Brian K1DIH


That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally
something for everyone.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:


Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it
still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't

as

basic as I think would be desirable.

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing
mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured
digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except
with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be
equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an
even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all
or nothing.

I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern
digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.

People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer
WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag
chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still
utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal
processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.

73,
Dave   AB7E


On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Enter JS8Call.

All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW,
RTTY and SSB rolled into one.

If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan
Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to
have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.

http://js8call.com/

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The

Stairs"


Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and

those

time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
increase the number of characters for the same time frame.

It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and

we

could spread out like we do for every other mode.

I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
would reduce the character count, though, all other things being

equal.

The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is

extremely

powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out

of

hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of

it.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
what's the point?

I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"

Meh.

I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and
if we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at
or below the noise floor, ma

Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[David Herring]

This is correct...there is skill and strategy involved with FT8. 

Sure, on a relatively empty band you can set and forget and let the software do 
all the work. Blindly call CQ and let others come find you. Yes, that could be 
construed as watching paint dry or grass growing.

How often does an empty band happen? For me, and the times I’m on, never.

Our little segment of FT8 is usually jammed from side to side with stations. At 
times it’s hard to get a word in edgewise. ;-)  (And don’t get me started on 
the ops who grossly over modulate, spill out and take up half of our space…)

If there’s a specific station you want to work, there is strategy and timing 
involved to increase your chances of making it into their decode window as a 
red line. It’s not rocket science, but it’s not Ronco Ron Popeil (“set it and 
forget it”) either. One can experiment with which window to start calling in, 
and moving the transmit point around, often to good effect.

I have only gradually become aware of the strategy and timing aspects of FT8 by 
using it a lot. Seeing what works and what doesn’t. And I’m still learning by 
doing.

I offer this only as point of consideration for those who may not have thought 
about it in this way. I’m not necessarily an FT8 evangelist. I love other 
aspects of the hobby as much or more. 

The beauty of this hobby is that you can take what you like and leave the rest 
for someone else.

73,
David - N5DCH



> On Jul 13, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Carl Yaffey  wrote:
> 
> My two cents: FT8 is a bit more than using a computer to make contacts. 
> Believe it or not, there is skill involved. Just try working a DX station 
> when a load of others are trying. Can you say “pile up”? It ain’t simple. 
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
>> 
>> "Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as watching 
>> grass grow !"
>> 
>> 
> 
> Carl Yaffey  K8NU
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
> Https://www.columbusfolkmusicsociety.org
> http://www.timbrewolves.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.folkramblers.carl-yaffey.com
> Http:www.clintonvillegrass.com
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] Fw: Re: FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[bhtoub]

Has anyone tried TeamViewer using the mode FT8? Was in QST a couple
months ago. Just another facet of this great hobby. 

73,
Brian K1DIH


That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally
something for everyone.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:
> 
> 
> Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
> still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't
as 
> basic as I think would be desirable.
> 
> Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
> mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
> digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
> with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
> equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
> even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all

> or nothing.
> 
> I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern

> digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.
> 
> People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
> WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
> chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
> utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
> processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
>> Enter JS8Call.
>>
>> All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, 
>> RTTY and SSB rolled into one.
>>
>> If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan 
>> Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to 
>> have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.
>>
>> http://js8call.com/
>>
>> 73
>> Lyn, W0LEN
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"
>>
>>
>> Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
>> doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
>> requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and
those
>> time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
>> rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
>> possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
>> increase the number of characters for the same time frame.
>>
>> It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
>> the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
>> transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
>> performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
>> single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
>> needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
>> format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and
we
>> could spread out like we do for every other mode.
>>
>> I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
>> checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
>> CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
>> would reduce the character count, though, all other things being
equal.
>>
>> The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is
extremely
>> powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
>> flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out
of
>> hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of
it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
>>> doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
>>> what's the point?
>>>
>>> I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"
>>>
>>> Meh.
>>>
>>> I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and
>>> if we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.
>>>
>>> 73 -- Lynn
>>>
>>> On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
 The argument for digital modes 

Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out

[hawley, charles j jr]

I believe the calibration is under the label on top of the slug. I would guess 
if you had knowledge of a source of RF that would deflect the meter accurately 
mid scale given the slug you were calibrating, then that would be the best you 
could do. 

Not it matters for most ham radio use...fairly accurate repeatability is 
probably a much more valuable test result.

Chuck KE9UW
c-haw...@illinois.edu

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dave B via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I would not trust a Bird 43 or similar meter for any "Measurements"
> whatsoever.
> 
> Especially if you cannot prove that the slugs and meter body were
> calibrated together.
> 
> They are notoriously inaccurate, but are good for quick "power presence"
> indications, and "ball bark" VSWR checks.
> 
> I honestly do not know why Bird 43's etc, are so coveted by the ham
> community, they are awful things for making measurements..
> 
> Note that the difference between 8W and 15W, is a bit less than 3dB.
> (2.73dB, or less than half an 'S' point!)
> 
> And for 3 and 2.5W it's 0.79dB  (Less than 1dB is not bad.)
> 
> Also, how good is the MFJ load at VHF, VSWR wise.  The spec says 1.5:1
> above 30MHz.  What did the radio say about that?
> 
> 73.
> 
> Dave G0WBX (Who's spent the last 30+ years working with QRO RF for a
> living.  kHz to 10's of GHz, and many 10's of kW's.)
> 
> 
>> On 11/07/2020 20:40, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>> From: Frank O'Donnell 
>> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
>> Message-ID: <07eb80bf-c36b-e2f8-b4f8-52144e84b...@inkbox.net>
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working 
>> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check 
>> the power out.
>> 
>> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a 
>> Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put 
>> the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to 
>> each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button.
>> 
>> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird 
>> showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w.
>> 
>> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio 
>> set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out.
>> 
>> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check?
>> 
>> Thanks and 73,
>> 
>> Frank K6FOD
> 
> -- 
> Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open 
> source software:
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Carl Yaffey]

My two cents: FT8 is a bit more than using a computer to make contacts. Believe 
it or not, there is skill involved. Just try working a DX station when a load 
of others are trying. Can you say “pile up”? It ain’t simple. 

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
> 
> "Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as watching 
> grass grow !"
> 
> 

Carl Yaffey  K8NU
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com
Https://www.columbusfolkmusicsociety.org
http://www.timbrewolves.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.folkramblers.carl-yaffey.com
Http:www.clintonvillegrass.com


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Lyn Norstad]

That's one of the great things about Amateur Radio.  There is literally 
something for everyone.

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 9:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:
> 
> 
> Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
> still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't as 
> basic as I think would be desirable.
> 
> Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
> mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
> digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
> with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
> equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
> even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all 
> or nothing.
> 
> I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern 
> digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.
> 
> People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
> WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
> chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
> utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
> processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.
> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
>> Enter JS8Call.
>>
>> All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, 
>> RTTY and SSB rolled into one.
>>
>> If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan 
>> Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to 
>> have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.
>>
>> http://js8call.com/
>>
>> 73
>> Lyn, W0LEN
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"
>>
>>
>> Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
>> doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
>> requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and those
>> time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
>> rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
>> possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
>> increase the number of characters for the same time frame.
>>
>> It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
>> the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
>> transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
>> performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
>> single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
>> needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
>> format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and we
>> could spread out like we do for every other mode.
>>
>> I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
>> checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
>> CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
>> would reduce the character count, though, all other things being equal.
>>
>> The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is extremely
>> powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
>> flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out of
>> hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
>>> doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
>>> what's the point?
>>>
>>> I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"
>>>
>>> Meh.
>>>
>>> I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and
>>> if we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.
>>>
>>> 73 -- Lynn
>>>
>>> On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
 The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at
 or below the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even
 if solar conditions are 

[Elecraft] "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Andy Durbin]

"Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. It was about as much fun as watching grass 
grow !"

Each to his own of course but, for me, the pleasure of making a contact has 
almost nothing to do with the mode used and almost everything to do with how 
much I wanted to contact that station.  I say "almost" because I still enjoy CW 
more than other modes.

How many would refuse to work Bouvet if FT8 is the only mode they choose to use 
when/if it is activated?

Andy, k3wyc
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[Elecraft] "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs

[Dauer, Edward]

I agree fully with Victor; though the difference may be even simpler:  

Making a QSO using CW is a ham doing something with a radio.  Making a QSO with 
FT8 is a radio doing something for a ham.

Neither is better or worse; but they are different.

Ted, KN1CBR

--

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:41:41 +0300
From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The
Stairs"
Message-ID: <3ac27805-0645-14c9-582f-601efd94c...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

For me, it's simple.

When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am 
connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the 
military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the 
operators on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, 
and to all the hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.

I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling to 
capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound of 
the code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at the 
other end with his or her hand on a key.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young age 
and developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as my 
mother tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at 
middle age or older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/__;!!NCZxaNi9jForCP_SxBKJCA!F4lkQrp7vnWsJyPT-T7iUPs1Sk1a79YI92FbY7WOC4FPuQvWxE1lsChUamJuUgiP$
 
.
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[Elecraft] FW: "On second thought, I'll take the stairs."

[Charlie T]

Yep, I've made some FT-8 contacts. 
It was about as much fun as watching grass grow !
No thanks.
I'm NOT a big CW guy either, but I can do it if I need to.

73, Charlie k3ICH

 

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 power out

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Hi.

I would not trust a Bird 43 or similar meter for any "Measurements"
whatsoever.

Especially if you cannot prove that the slugs and meter body were
calibrated together.

They are notoriously inaccurate, but are good for quick "power presence"
indications, and "ball bark" VSWR checks.

I honestly do not know why Bird 43's etc, are so coveted by the ham
community, they are awful things for making measurements..

Note that the difference between 8W and 15W, is a bit less than 3dB.
(2.73dB, or less than half an 'S' point!)

And for 3 and 2.5W it's 0.79dB  (Less than 1dB is not bad.)

Also, how good is the MFJ load at VHF, VSWR wise.  The spec says 1.5:1
above 30MHz.  What did the radio say about that?

73.

Dave G0WBX (Who's spent the last 30+ years working with QRO RF for a
living.  kHz to 10's of GHz, and many 10's of kW's.)


On 11/07/2020 20:40, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> From: Frank O'Donnell 
> To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 power out
> Message-ID: <07eb80bf-c36b-e2f8-b4f8-52144e84b...@inkbox.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> After a fair time of non-use, today I got out my KX3 and started working 
> through configuration checklists. Among other things I thought I'd check 
> the power out.
>
> For this test I used a Bird 43 and MFJ-260C dummy load. For HF I used a 
> Bird 2-30 MHz 25w element, and for 2m a 100-250 MHz 10w element. I put 
> the KX3 in CW mode and keyed with the KXPD3 paddle. When changing to 
> each HF band I hit the ATU Tune button.
>
> On 40m and 20m I found that with the Pwr knob set to 15w, the Bird 
> showed about 8w out. With the Pwr knob set to 5w, the power out is about 3w.
>
> After changing the antenna port and Bird element, on 2m with the radio 
> set to 3w the Bird shows about 2.5w out.
>
> Any thoughts on these results, or suggestions on other things to check?
>
> Thanks and 73,
>
> Frank K6FOD

-- 
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source 
software:

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[Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Andy Durbin]

"It would be handy if it repeated the rs232 so you could leave the computer 
hooked up for the utility."

I doubt any design change would be required.  The display device would simply 
have its TX line disconnected and it would listen to KPA500 responses to 
utility polling.   In my system that's done with a multiplexing relay so it can 
be used with or without the utility with no cable re-configuration.

In my opinion the parameters that are useful when monitoring a KPA500 are PA 
dissipation and PA efficiency.  This device displays neither.

Andy, k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[hawley, charles j jr]

It would be handy if it repeated the rs232 so you could leave the computer 
hooked up for the utility.

Chuck Jack Hawley 
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack 

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Macy monkeys  wrote:
> 
> 
> With any USPS luck I will be taking delivery of mine today unless delayed. 
> Will report to the forum how I like it...
> 
> John K7FD
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2020, at 5:58 AM, Keith Ennis via Elecraft 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure why my formatting got stripped out. I will try again. Keith 
>> Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital Display 
>> Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the Elecraft 
>> KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit (DDU). 
>> It allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same time. 1. 
>> Power amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high voltage 
>> supply voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output 
>> power5. SWR that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 
>> with an easy to read 2 line display that can be located at the operating 
>> position and the KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is designed with 
>> the following features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or serial cable to 
>> computerNo com port in Windows to manageNo computer neededPlug and 
>> PlaySimply connect the supplied DC power cable to power supply and PC data 
>> jumper cable to the KPA500
> Retains all functions of the KPA500 front panelAll displayed info obtained 
> directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA voltage 
> and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add watts, SWR 
> and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep the watts 
> and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the amp. For more 
> information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM
>> 
>> 
>> Keith,KV5J
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   On Monday, July 13, 2020, 07:11:19 AM CDT, Keith Ennis  
>> wrote:  
>> 
>> Keith Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital 
>> Display Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the 
>> Elecraft KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit 
>> (DDU). It allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same 
>> time. 1. Power amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high 
>> voltage supply voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's 
>> output power5. SWR that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 
>> 4X4X2 with an easy to read 2 line display that can be located at the 
>> operating position and the KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is 
>> designed with the following features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or 
>> serial cable to computerNo com port in Windows to manageNo computer 
>> neededPlug and PlaySimply connect the supplied DC power cable to power 
>> supply and PC data jumper cable to the KPA500Retains all functions of the 
>> KPA500 front panelAll displayed info ob
> tained directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA 
> voltage and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add 
> watts, SWR and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep 
> the watts and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the 
> amp. For more information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM
>> 
>> 
>> Keith,KV5J  
>> __
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>> Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Drew AF2Z]

Please- *nobody* is asking JT to save CW by giving us an extra 6-8 dB 
SNR. I hope that is not the next Goldilocks mode in the pipeline. I 
assume proponents of such a cobbled up "user interface" would feel 
perfectly justified in "sharing" even more CW frequency space? No thanks.


73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 07/12/20 20:57, David Gilbert wrote:



Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't as 
basic as I think would be desirable.


Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all 
or nothing.


I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern 
digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.


People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Enter JS8Call.

All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, 
RTTY and SSB rolled into one.


If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan 
Sherer (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to 
have been a part of the beta team almost since day one.


http://js8call.com/

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert

Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"


Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and those
time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
increase the number of characters for the same time frame.

It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and we
could spread out like we do for every other mode.

I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
would reduce the character count, though, all other things being equal.

The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is extremely
powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out of
hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of it.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
what's the point?

I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"

Meh.

I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and
if we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at
or below the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even
if solar conditions are very poor. Simplicity of protocol is a side
effect of this design.

_


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Post: mailto:Elecraf

Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Lyn Norstad]

Dave -

The current release of JS8Call (v. 2.2.0) bears little resemblance to versions 
a year or more back.  I think the many changes since then have made it much 
less "rigid" and much more useful.

In addition to plain old everyday ragchewing for example, it has the capability 
to auto-relay messages, store and forward messages, send to designated groups, 
interface with APRS and SMS messaging, etc.  All functions that are not even 
remotely possible with FT8 or CW, for that matter.  And do so at multiple speed 
levels that extend up into the 20+ wpm realm.  All this can be done normally at 
very low power levels.

73
Lyn, W0LEN
 

-Original Message-
From: David Gilbert [mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 8:57 PM
To: l...@lnainc.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"



Not quite.  I'm aware of JS8 and tried it more than a year ago, but it 
still has much of the rigidity of the WSJT-X user interface and isn't as 
basic as I think would be desirable.

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode, DXing 
mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well configured 
digital signal processing scheme like that which is under FT8, except 
with a different user interface than either WSJT-X or JS8,  could be 
equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db better S/N ... possibly by an 
even greater margin if the decoding allowed errors instead of being all 
or nothing.

I'm not saying text-to-CW is the only way to reap the benefit of modern 
digital signal processing ... only using it as an example.

People only interested in a contact will probably always prefer 
WSJT-X/FT8 because it does that very well, but both contesting and rag 
chewing could really use a different (simpler) structure while still 
utilizing the superior weak signal peformance of modern digital signal 
processing.  I guarantee that it is possible to do so.

73,
Dave   AB7E


On 7/12/2020 6:18 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:
> Enter JS8Call.
>
> All the technology of FT8, plus all of the conversationality of CW, RTTY and 
> SSB rolled into one.
>
> If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's developer, Jordan Sherer 
> (KN4CRD) has done a terrific job with it and I am honored to have been a part 
> of the beta team almost since day one.
>
> http://js8call.com/
>
> 73
> Lyn, W0LEN
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"
>
>
> Well, the fact is that the coding and processing behind modes like FT8
> doesn't have to be as rigid as is implemented in WSJT-X.  It only
> requires that information be sent and received in time frames, and those
> time frames are simply a function of three variables ... bandwidth,
> rate, and number of characters in the message frame.  It would be
> possible to change any of those, such as widening the bandwidth to
> increase the number of characters for the same time frame.
>
> It would also be possible to send text but have it converted to CW on
> the other end.  Or even to key CW that gets converted to text before
> transmission ... i.e., CW to CW except with significantly better S/N
> performance.  If the user was willing to live with a narrow bandwidth
> single conversation format, clock synchronization isn't even really
> needed.   And if we were willing to live with a single conversation
> format, there would be no point in cramming everyone into 2.4 KHz and we
> could spread out like we do for every other mode.
>
> I'm no expert, but I think that the coding could have enough error
> checking to allow busted message frames to be printed (or converted to
> CW) ... although of course with errors.  The extra error processing
> would reduce the character count, though, all other things being equal.
>
> The point is that the digital signal processing behind FT8 is extremely
> powerful and could be adapted to other user formats with a lot more
> flexibility than we have with FT8.  The hams who just dismiss FT8 out of
> hand really don't understand the broader weak signal applicability of it.
>
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
>
> On 7/12/2020 4:53 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> Yeah, great, reliable at or below the noise floor, but if all you're
>> doing is meeting the somewhat arbitrary minimum that defines a QSO,
>> what's the point?
>>
>> I mean seriously, can you even ask about the weather?  Just say "hi?"
>>
>> Meh.
>>
>> I'm fine with typing, but I want a real live person typing back, and
>> if we can type back and forth for an hour, that's great.
>>
>> 73 -- Lynn
>>
>> On 7/12/20 2:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> The argument for digital modes like FT8 is that they're reliable at
>>> or below the noise floor, making it possible to work lots of DX even
>>> if s

Re: [Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Macy monkeys]

With any USPS luck I will be taking delivery of mine today unless delayed. Will 
report to the forum how I like it...

John K7FD

> On Jul 13, 2020, at 5:58 AM, Keith Ennis via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am not sure why my formatting got stripped out. I will try again. Keith 
> Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital Display 
> Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the Elecraft 
> KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit (DDU). It 
> allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same time. 1. Power 
> amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high voltage supply 
> voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output power5. SWR 
> that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 with an easy 
> to read 2 line display that can be located at the operating position and the 
> KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is designed with the following 
> features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or serial cable to computerNo com 
> port in Windows to manageNo computer neededPlug and PlaySimply connect the 
> supplied DC power cable to power supply and PC data jumper cable to the KPA500
 Retains all functions of the KPA500 front panelAll displayed info obtained 
directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA voltage 
and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add watts, SWR 
and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep the watts 
and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the amp. For more 
information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM
> 
> 
> Keith,KV5J
> 
> 
> 
>On Monday, July 13, 2020, 07:11:19 AM CDT, Keith Ennis  
> wrote:  
> 
> Keith Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital 
> Display Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the 
> Elecraft KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit 
> (DDU). It allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same 
> time. 1. Power amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high 
> voltage supply voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output 
> power5. SWR that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 
> with an easy to read 2 line display that can be located at the operating 
> position and the KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is designed with 
> the following features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or serial cable to 
> computerNo com port in Windows to manageNo computer neededPlug and PlaySimply 
> connect the supplied DC power cable to power supply and PC data jumper cable 
> to the KPA500Retains all functions of the KPA500 front panelAll displayed 
> info ob
 tained directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA 
voltage and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add 
watts, SWR and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep 
the watts and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the amp. 
For more information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM
> 
> 
> Keith,KV5J  
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

I am not sure why my formatting got stripped out. I will try again. Keith Ennis 
(KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital Display Units.  
The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the Elecraft KPA500 I have 
designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit (DDU). It allows the 
monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same time. 1. Power amplifier's 
heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high voltage supply voltage3. Power 
amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output power5. SWR that the KPA500 sees 
at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 with an easy to read 2 line display 
that can be located at the operating position and the KPA500 located up to 10 
feet away. The DDU is designed with the following features: Easy to read 2 line 
displayNo USB or serial cable to computerNo com port in Windows to manageNo 
computer neededPlug and PlaySimply connect the supplied DC power cable to power 
supply and PC data jumper cable to the KPA500Retains all functions of the 
KPA500 front panelAll displayed info obtained directly from the KPA500 The DDU 
will poll the KPA500 and display PA voltage and PA temperature during receive 
and transmit cycles. It will add watts, SWR and current during transmit. There 
is a built in hold time to keep the watts and SWR displayed for a short amount 
of time after unkeying the amp. For more information about the DDU visit:   
WWW.KV5J.COM


Keith,KV5J

 

On Monday, July 13, 2020, 07:11:19 AM CDT, Keith Ennis  
wrote:  
 
 Keith Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital 
Display Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the 
Elecraft KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit 
(DDU). It allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same time. 
1. Power amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high voltage 
supply voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output power5. 
SWR that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 with an 
easy to read 2 line display that can be located at the operating position and 
the KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is designed with the following 
features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or serial cable to computerNo com 
port in Windows to manageNo computer neededPlug and PlaySimply connect the 
supplied DC power cable to power supply and PC data jumper cable to the 
KPA500Retains all functions of the KPA500 front panelAll displayed info 
obtained directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA 
voltage and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add 
watts, SWR and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep 
the watts and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the amp. 
For more information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM


Keith,KV5J  
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2020 13 Jul 02:47 -0500, David Gilbert wrote:
> 
> No, those other posts didn't say that.

Perhaps not directly.  Preferences can always be strongly implied.

I think it is inarguable that years back ARRL publications had a bias
toward antennas that favored DX.  DX is fine and perhaps that did keep
more Novices in the ranks than would have otherwise stayed due to poor
antennas.  However, a low dipole antenna for the low bands was often
derided as a "cloud warmer" without mention of why such an antenna might
be useful.

Perhaps it was the steady diet of Kurt N. Sterba in the now discontinued
World Radio magazine as a Novice and Tech in the mid-80s that taught me
that a low antenna on the low HF bands had a valuable use.  I proved
this to myself right at 35 years ago when I became active on the Novice
bands and wanted to work the Kansas Slow Speed CW Net (QKS-SS).  The
vertical I had due to previously being convinced that I needed a DX
antenna worked miserably for such close-in work as checking into a
section net.  I strung up a dipole that was almost too low and I was
rewarded with very strong signals from within a few hundred miles on
80m.  Working the section net was easy with that antenna.

It wasn't until the quasi-military term Near Vertical Incident Skywave
(NVIS) entered the amateur radio vernacular in the early '90s that
"cloud warmers" became acceptable in literature printed in Newington.
Denizens of low band section nets knew the secret decades before.

Why do I use a K3 when over 90% of my operating time is spent on 75m
nets these days?  The QRM fighting features such as high and low cut
with appropriate filtering and something about its receiver where I
don't experience the fading other operators using other radios mention
frequently.  Perhaps it is my low doublet antenna that is overall a 3/4
wave on 75/80m that helps.

> I don't know why some hams insist on fabricating controversy where there is
> none.  It seems like the bulk of our American society is determined to be as
> tribal as possible.  Sorry times we live in.

There is a reason for that which is not apropos for this list.  Suffice
it to say that this has been the case for nearly the entirety of the
existence of amateur radio and likely in other endeavors for centuries.
A look at QST from the earliest decades show a bias toward traffic
handling and as the shortwave spectrum was discovered slowly turned
toward DXing.  In later decades Emmcomm has assumed a greater stature
while paradoxically traffic handling has almost been forgotten.

Fact is that people will always have a bias toward their own interests.

73, Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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[Elecraft] Digital Display Unit for the Elecraft KPA500

[Keith Ennis via Elecraft]

Keith Ennis (KV5J) is proud to introduce the second in his line of Digital 
Display Units.  The Digital Display Unit for Elecraft's KPA500. For the 
Elecraft KPA500 I have designed a compact, easy to read Digital Display Unit 
(DDU). It allows the monitoring of five crucial readings all at the same time. 
1. Power amplifier's heat sink temperature2. Power amplifier's high voltage 
supply voltage3. Power amplifier's current4. Power amplifier's output power5. 
SWR that the KPA500 sees at its output  The DDU measures only 4X4X2 with an 
easy to read 2 line display that can be located at the operating position and 
the KPA500 located up to 10 feet away. The DDU is designed with the following 
features: Easy to read 2 line displayNo USB or serial cable to computerNo com 
port in Windows to manageNo computer neededPlug and PlaySimply connect the 
supplied DC power cable to power supply and PC data jumper cable to the 
KPA500Retains all functions of the KPA500 front panelAll displayed info 
obtained directly from the KPA500 The DDU will poll the KPA500 and display PA 
voltage and PA temperature during receive and transmit cycles. It will add 
watts, SWR and current during transmit. There is a built in hold time to keep 
the watts and SWR displayed for a short amount of time after unkeying the amp. 
For more information about the DDU visit:   WWW.KV5J.COM


Keith,KV5J
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Jim Brown]

Two great posts, Dave.  Thanks!

73 Jim K9YC

On 7/13/2020 12:59 AM, David Gilbert wrote:
Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as 
easily go back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and 
regenerative receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't.  The gear 
you operate compares little in form, fit or function to anything those 
folks used back then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot of 
digital signal processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer instead 
of a hand key.  Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine somebody at 
his keyboard on the other end as I could if he was operating a paddle. 
Most DXing and almost all contesting is already somebody simply pounding 
on a function key on a keyboard.


And like I said before, it is entirely possible to preserve the bulk of 
everything you mention and still use modern signal processing to make 
human connections more achievable.  WSJT-X just doesn't happen to be 
that at this point, but that doesn't mean something else couldn't be.


Dave   AB7E





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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Actually, I'm building a regenerative receiver now. I have to use JFETs 
because I got rid of all my tube stuff due to lack of room. But of 
course I will continue to benefit from the DSP in my K3, and its keyer 
(although I have a bug that I use once in a while).


But those things don't take away the connection to history, they make it 
better. The point for me isn't to use the same gear as they did in 1912, 
but to enter the Morse space as they did. If I can do it with equipment 
that is more stable and effective, so much the better.


After all, a modern sailboat is very much more sophisticated than an old 
one, but sailing is still sailing.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 13/07/2020 10:59, David Gilbert wrote:


Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as 
easily go back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and 
regenerative receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't.  The gear 
you operate compares little in form, fit or function to anything those 
folks used back then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot of 
digital signal processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer instead 
of a hand key.  Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine somebody at 
his keyboard on the other end as I could if he was operating a paddle. 
Most DXing and almost all contesting is already somebody simply pounding 
on a function key on a keyboard.


And like I said before, it is entirely possible to preserve the bulk of 
everything you mention and still use modern signal processing to make 
human connections more achievable.  WSJT-X just doesn't happen to be 
that at this point, but that doesn't mean something else couldn't be.


Dave   AB7E




On 7/13/2020 12:41 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

For me, it's simple.

When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am 
connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the 
military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the 
operators on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, 
and to all the hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.


I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling 
to capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound 
of the code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at 
the other end with his or her hand on a key.


I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young 
age and developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as 
my mother tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at 
middle age or older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 13/07/2020 5:06, Wayne Burdick wrote:



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert 
wrote:

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode,
DXing mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well
configured digital signal processing scheme like that which is
under FT8, except with a different user interface than either
WSJT-X or JS8,  could be equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db
better S/N ... possibly by an even greater margin if the decoding
allowed errors instead of being all or nothing.



Except that (a) you don't have to know CW, and (b) you don't need a
key. There goes 73% of its charm :)

Wayne N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Nr4c]

I believe that half of US hams are Technician Class, so mostly VHF/UHF FM 
operators.  Not a lot of DX or contesting there. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 13, 2020, at 4:03 AM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as easily go 
> back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and regenerative 
> receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't.  The gear you operate 
> compares little in form, fit or function to anything those folks used back 
> then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot of digital signal 
> processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer instead of a hand key.  
> Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine somebody at his keyboard on the 
> other end as I could if he was operating a paddle.  Most DXing and almost all 
> contesting is already somebody simply pounding on a function key on a 
> keyboard.
> 
> And like I said before, it is entirely possible to preserve the bulk of 
> everything you mention and still use modern signal processing to make human 
> connections more achievable.  WSJT-X just doesn't happen to be that at this 
> point, but that doesn't mean something else couldn't be.
> 
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/13/2020 12:41 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
>> For me, it's simple.
>> 
>> When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am 
>> connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the 
>> military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the operators 
>> on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, and to all the 
>> hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.
>> 
>> I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling to 
>> capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound of the 
>> code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at the other end 
>> with his or her hand on a key.
>> 
>> I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young age and 
>> developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as my mother 
>> tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at middle age or 
>> older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> CWops no. 5
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> .
>>> On 13/07/2020 5:06, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> 
 On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert 
 wrote:
 
 Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode,
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[David Gilbert]

Fine, but that demarcation is pretty arbitrary.  You could just as 
easily go back to tube gear with crystal controlled transmitters and 
regenerative receivers., but I'd be a lot of money you don't.  The gear 
you operate compares little in form, fit or function to anything those 
folks used back then.  Your current radio almost certainly has a lot of 
digital signal processing already, and I'll bet you use a keyer instead 
of a hand key.  Quite frankly, I can just as easily imagine somebody at 
his keyboard on the other end as I could if he was operating a paddle.  
Most DXing and almost all contesting is already somebody simply pounding 
on a function key on a keyboard.


And like I said before, it is entirely possible to preserve the bulk of 
everything you mention and still use modern signal processing to make 
human connections more achievable.  WSJT-X just doesn't happen to be 
that at this point, but that doesn't mean something else couldn't be.


Dave   AB7E




On 7/13/2020 12:41 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

For me, it's simple.

When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am 
connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the 
military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the 
operators on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, 
and to all the hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.


I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling 
to capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound 
of the code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at 
the other end with his or her hand on a key.


I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young 
age and developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as 
my mother tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at 
middle age or older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 13/07/2020 5:06, Wayne Burdick wrote:



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert 
wrote:

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode,
DXing mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well
configured digital signal processing scheme like that which is
under FT8, except with a different user interface than either
WSJT-X or JS8,  could be equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db
better S/N ... possibly by an even greater margin if the decoding
allowed errors instead of being all or nothing.



Except that (a) you don't have to know CW, and (b) you don't need a
key. There goes 73% of its charm :)

Wayne N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[David Gilbert]

No, those other posts didn't say that.

I don't know why some hams insist on fabricating controversy where there 
is none.  It seems like the bulk of our American society is determined 
to be as tribal as possible.  Sorry times we live in.


Dave   AB7E



On 7/12/2020 9:09 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
But apparently, according to other posts on this list, DXing and CW is 
Amateur Radio, and if you don't have fun doing that, you aren't really 
a ham.


Oh well.

73 -- Lynn


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

For me, it's simple.

When I make a CW contact, even if its total content is "ENN TU", I am 
connected to history, to Jack Phillips on the Titanic, to all of the 
military traffic men and airborne radio operators of WWII, to the 
operators on the merchant ships on the high seas and the Great Lakes, 
and to all the hams of the past, even Mr. Marconi, the first ham.


I like hearing the propagation change with my own ears and struggling to 
capture an ESP-level call. I like the feel of the key and the sound of 
the code. I like the idea that there is another person like me at the 
other end with his or her hand on a key.


I consider myself extremely lucky to have caught the bug at a young age 
and developed the skill needed to make CW as transparent to me as my 
mother tongue. I see how hard it is for those who begin to learn at 
middle age or older. They shouldn't give up -- it's worth it.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
.
On 13/07/2020 5:06, Wayne Burdick wrote:



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:57 PM, David Gilbert 
wrote:

Think of it this way ... CW works fine as both a contest mode,
DXing mode, and conversational mode.  Underlaying CW with a well
configured digital signal processing scheme like that which is
under FT8, except with a different user interface than either
WSJT-X or JS8,  could be equally versatile but with maybe 6-8 db
better S/N ... possibly by an even greater margin if the decoding
allowed errors instead of being all or nothing.



Except that (a) you don't have to know CW, and (b) you don't need a
key. There goes 73% of its charm :)

Wayne N6KR

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