FW: FW: FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett, I agree with Tom - that you should re-peak the bandpass filters at low power (1 to 2 watts) It is easier to discern the peak at low power and there is lesser chance that the K2 power adjustment mechanism will try to compensate and confuse the response. I tried that. I did it at 1 watt, no real change. Be certain to observe the correct band order for doing the bandpass filter alignment - for any band pair, you must adjust the inductors first and then the trimmer caps. Do 80 and 40 meters in any order, but align 30 before 20, 15 before 17, 10 before 12. If you have the K60XV installed, 40 must be aligned before 60 meters. 160 and 80 share the same inductors, so you may have to compromise a bit between them, but that filter is broad and there is plenty of reserve drive on those bands. On 10 meters, you may find better coverage across the 28.0 to 28.8 MHz band if you do the alignment at 28400 kHz rather than the 28200 mentioned in the manual. But if your main 10 meter interest is CW, use the 28.2 point. I have been doing it that way (by the book). I have no idea what is on what band, and when they are open. I have been stuck on 80 and 40 meters weekend mornings for the last 15 years or so, I have checked out 20 and 15 meters at night with the K2 and there is nothing there, so I suppose they are more daytime bands? Since you said you have a 'scope, you will find it easier to watch for the peak on the scope trace than to wait until the digital display settles down. Just connect your 'scope's 10X probe across the dummy load. Connect directly to the dummy load with a short connection for the best results. You will be able to see the RF voltage peak on the 'scope easily. You are not trying for any specific voltage, just for the point of the peak. If you do not use the 'scope, make the adjustments slowly to give the digital display time to respond. After peaking the bandpass at low power, you can re-check the max power output if you have any real doubts about it. I think I am real close to maximum I am going to get out of the rig without changes, and I am fine with 10 watts or more on most bands, 10 meters is about 8 watts, I might try removing one turn from L21 and L22 as a test. Thanks, Brett N2DTS 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived
I think I did them right, you know it WOULD help if the drawings in the manual reflected the actual turns, like the drawing on page 53, figure 6-15 shows 13 turns, no? Looking on the next page, I now see they say its 14 turns. Guess I will unwind a turn off each coil! I must say, most of the adjustments did not require much turning of coils or caps, nothing is close to the limit of adjustment. Brett N2DTS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:45 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Kit arrived Hi, I don't suppose Bretts problem could be as simple as having 1 turn too many on the LP filter toroids? I fixed a K2 for a chap who had done that, and the higher band outputs especially, were rotten. It is a common problem for new kit builders to add an extra turn when winding toroids by not realizing that as soon as the wire passes through the hole, that is turn #1 .. Cheers.Ron ZL1TW ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Tom, I hooked up the dummy load and the 0-20 watt meter. 3.5 MHz 12.5 watts out, 2.7 amps 7 MHz 14 watts out, 4.3 amps 10 MHz 10 watts out, 2.4 amps 14 MHz 8 watts out,2.3 amps 18 MHz 9 watts out 1.8 amps 21 MHz 9 watts out,1.8 amps 24 MHz 6 watts out,1.5 amps 28 MHz 5 watts out,1.8 amps Were these values obtained with POWER set to a 'requested' 15.0 watts? Power knob all the way up. 13.8 volts per my DMM. Measured where? At the output of the P/S? Or at the back of the K2? At diode D10, the big protection diode on the side of the board. I have fat wires running to the 35 amp supply. When tuning C21 in the 30 meter bandpass, the output power would take off and go to 20 watts till I turned the power down then back up, then it acted normal. This is normal function WHEN YOU ARE TUNING UP THE RIG. When this happens, don't turn the POWER control back, just exit from TUNE mode and return to TUNE mode, then continue your alignment tweaking. Repeat the EXIT / TUNE sequence as often as necessary during your alignment. This allows the ALC to again take over the (at least) start you out at the desired power level... Once you get the rig aligned this increasing of power won't occur. I was using the key to transmit, not the tune button, is there a difference (besides the sidetone)? I checked the voltage at the RF output detector and its ok. Checked it with what? And what value were you looking for? DMM, just that it read the correct range, and went up with more power output. Its in the 3 to 4 volt range. Looking at things on the spec an, after the power knob is up past 1/2 to 3/4 the harmonics go way up, but I might be picking signal up before the filters. Spec an connected to the ANT jack? No, just picking up the signal while probing T1 and T2, I was trying to see if the drive level falls off with the power. Past 1/2 to 3/4 power, some harmonics are higher than the fundamental frequency, but below that all looks normal, harmonics 30 or 40 DB down or more. I know this is not really a valid test. On what bands... all? Most if not all. One other thing I noticed, the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, it's still pegged. This tends to imply a Hi-Z condition at the ANT jack? OR that you have a LO-Z condition on 80/40. Probably the former. This occurs what a known-good dummy load connected at the ANT jack? I have and tried 2, a bird kilowatt, and the heath cantenna, and checked the swr on both, its low. I also tried two coax cables between the rig and the watt meter, which also agrees when I hook up the antenna and tune it for a low swr, the power outputs on the heath antenna tuner agree with the other watt meter. I don't need lots of power out, but dislike when something does not work up to spec. Agreed... the K2 should put out 12W-15W on all bands, though it will probably be closer to the 12W level on 12M and 10M. 73, Tom HammondN0SS Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
I am not certain what you mean by the phrase the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, its still pegged. What do you mean by pegged? The watt meter in the rig indicates 10 plus watts out even though the power out is 5 watts at full power. The RF sense circuit does reflect the lower power, with say 2 point something volts out of the RF pickup instead of the 4 plus volts when the rig puts out 12 watts. Below about 2 volts the RF sense voltage falls off like it should and the watt meter on the front panel starts going down. Is the internal RF meter indicating a high RF voltage? If so, you should believe that the RF voltage is really high and something is wrong with your test setup. The detector used in the basic K2 is a simple diode detector and does accurately reflect the RF voltage, and the microprocessor calculates that value to watts with the assumption that the load is 50 ohms resistive. The voltage reads something like 4 point something volts on 80 and 40 at 12 to 14 watts out, and as I go up in bands and the power falls off, the output voltage drops to something like 2 volts (from memory). I tried an experiment by loading this voltage down with a 10k to ground at the DMM leads and did not see any change except on the watt meter reading on the rig, which went down a bit. I do not suspect a problem with the RF sense circuit. Is your load at the time of these measurements a good 50 ohm resistive dummy load? Yes. If you do have a good 50 ohm dummy load on the K2, then I would strongly suggest that you check your connecting coax link before doing anything else. I tried 2 cables, both are likely 75 ohm as I don't have any rg8x to bnc cables, but the cables are short, like 2 feet long. I will try some rg8x into bnc to 259 adaptors just to be sure. What kind of power meter are you using? How has its accuracy been verified? 2 different ones, and yes, they are in the ballpark. We need to know exactly what your setup is before we can provide informed answers to your questions. How are you measuring the current draw? Is this the indication on the K2 or are you using some other measuring device? Only by the K2 readout. I suppose its just a rough reading. All in all, what I can say at the moment is that the base K2 will control its power output according to the RF voltage indicated at the internal diode detector. That detector is not a wattmeter and needs a good 50 ohm resistive load in order for the K2 to control the power output. This does not seem to work past 80 and 40 meters, it does seem to be close on 80 and 40 meters, set the rig for 2 watts out and I get close to 2 watts out and the bar graph power meter indicates 2 watts out. Above 40 meters, the power out is low, the rf sense voltage is lower, but the power is lower then the bar graph indicates. As far as adjusting C21 - adjust any of the bandpass filter elements at a power of 2 watts or lower. Attempting to adjust them at higher power levels can lead to incorrect alignment due to several other factors. I tried it both ways, at 2 watts and full power, and at as low a power I could read on the watt meter, does the same thing, but I think its just some sort of resonance... How are you determining that the harmonic content goes way up? That is unusual and indicates that you have a problem with soldering or incorrect components somewhere. While I was probing T1, T2, and T3. Its not a valid test of the output of the rig, but under say half power, the signals look clean and normal, as you turn the power up, the harmonics go WAY up past the fundamental frequency. The reason I noticed this is because my O scope was doing a poor job at measuring the signal levels at the various transformer ins and outs. I don't know if this is valid at all, as even at the 2 watt level, power is down on the bands above 40 meters. The usual cause of high current draw coupled with low power output is the Low Pass Filters and/or the T4 circuitry. Do you have T4 properly wound? I think so. It looks like figure 6-30 on page69 of the book. 2 turns of green wire, 3 turns of white wire, and the two bare wire links, all pulled tight to the board. 73, Don W3FPR Thanks, Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett, All that sounds like you have a significant amount of reactance connected to the K2s antenna jack. If you have an antenna analyzer, remove the coax from the K2 and check the entire load that your dummy load, wattmeter and coax combination is presenting to the K2. Since you have a 'scope there - put on a 10X probe and measure the RF voltage directly at the BNC antenna connector on the K2 while feeding your load. Read the peak to peak voltage and calculate the power directly from the peak to peak voltage as V^2/400 and you should find it agrees with the internal indicated power - if it does not, there is a problem with the internal detector. If it does agree, you have a problem with the setup that you have connected to the K2. Again, the K2 will control power according to the RF voltage it measures with the RF Detector. If you have the amount of RF voltage that calculates to the requested power output, then the K2 is controlling the power output as designed. Yes, the basic K2 is very sensitive to loads that are reactive or not exactly 50 ohms due to the simple diode detector used. That changes when the KAT2 or KPA100 or KAT100 is installed because those units include a real wattmeter which reports power rather than RF voltage to the microprocessor. On the 'harmonic' situation - yes, what you observe is true if you are probing with a spectrum analyzer inside the K2 circuits. The Low Pass Filter will reduce the harmonics significantly before they reach the output jack. To properly use a Spectrum Analyzer to measure internal stages, the transmitter circuit must be opened, transformed to 50 ohms and then fed to the spectrum analyzer. A spectrum analyzer has a 50 ohm input impedance and cannot be properly used for in-situ measurements like a high impedance oscilloscope can be used. 73, Don W3FPR Brett gazdzinski wrote: I am not certain what you mean by the phrase the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, its still pegged. What do you mean by pegged? The watt meter in the rig indicates 10 plus watts out even though the power out is 5 watts at full power. The RF sense circuit does reflect the lower power, with say 2 point something volts out of the RF pickup instead of the 4 plus volts when the rig puts out 12 watts. Below about 2 volts the RF sense voltage falls off like it should and the watt meter on the front panel starts going down. Is the internal RF meter indicating a high RF voltage? If so, you should believe that the RF voltage is really high and something is wrong with your test setup. The detector used in the basic K2 is a simple diode detector and does accurately reflect the RF voltage, and the microprocessor calculates that value to watts with the assumption that the load is 50 ohms resistive. The voltage reads something like 4 point something volts on 80 and 40 at 12 to 14 watts out, and as I go up in bands and the power falls off, the output voltage drops to something like 2 volts (from memory). I tried an experiment by loading this voltage down with a 10k to ground at the DMM leads and did not see any change except on the watt meter reading on the rig, which went down a bit. I do not suspect a problem with the RF sense circuit. Is your load at the time of these measurements a good 50 ohm resistive dummy load? Yes. If you do have a good 50 ohm dummy load on the K2, then I would strongly suggest that you check your connecting coax link before doing anything else. I tried 2 cables, both are likely 75 ohm as I don't have any rg8x to bnc cables, but the cables are short, like 2 feet long. I will try some rg8x into bnc to 259 adaptors just to be sure. What kind of power meter are you using? How has its accuracy been verified? 2 different ones, and yes, they are in the ballpark. We need to know exactly what your setup is before we can provide informed answers to your questions. How are you measuring the current draw? Is this the indication on the K2 or are you using some other measuring device? Only by the K2 readout. I suppose its just a rough reading. All in all, what I can say at the moment is that the base K2 will control its power output according to the RF voltage indicated at the internal diode detector. That detector is not a wattmeter and needs a good 50 ohm resistive load in order for the K2 to control the power output. This does not seem to work past 80 and 40 meters, it does seem to be close on 80 and 40 meters, set the rig for 2 watts out and I get close to 2 watts out and the bar graph power meter indicates 2 watts out. Above 40 meters, the power out is low, the rf sense voltage is lower, but the power is lower then the bar graph indicates. As far as adjusting C21 - adjust any of the bandpass filter elements at a power of 2 watts or lower. Attempting to adjust them at higher power
FW: FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
At lunch I did some more tests. I made a dummy load using 4 200 ohm 2 watt resistors, measured the resistance at 50 ohms, and plugged that right into the watt meter. The other end of the wattmeter plugged into the K2 antenna jack using adaptors. I did the tx setup per the book, and now have at least 10 watts out on all bands, but it does roll off on the higher bands. 10 meters might be below 10 watts, I don't remember. 80 and 40 meters do about 13 or 14 watts. What the 'tune' button seems to do is measure the rf out per a set power (2 watts), display it, and when out of the tune mode, corrects the power so its right. You can really see it work on 80 and 40 meters, set the power knob to 2 watts, hi the tune button and the meters read 3 watts. Exit the tune mode with the power still set at 2 watts and hit the cw key and I get 2 watts out on the bar graph and my meter. This works a treat on 80, 40, and 30 meters, the power output matches the knob set point and the bar graph very closely AFTER you do the tune setup, at least up past 10 or 12 watts. Above about 30 meters, the bar graph and the tune position start showing more power then the 3 watt meters I have do, I have some diwa little thing, a Kenwood average/pep meter, and the heathkit antenna tuner meter. All read the same. The higher you go above 30 meters, the more the rig says its doing more power out then my meters do. The RF sense circuit is after all the stages, its at the antenna output basically.. I checked all the components in the rf output sense circuit and they are the correct values and measure correctly. I did not mess with the diode (D9 1N5711), nor can I verify its number without unsoldering it. Maybe I should order a few 1N5711 diodes and see if there is any difference in how they act. This sure is a fun rig to trouble shoot and play with, although I am still not over fond of computers in HF gear... Brett N2DTS Hi Brett: I also tried two coax cables between the rig and the watt meter, which also agrees when I hook up the antenna and tune it for a low swr, the power outputs on the heath antenna tuner agree with the other watt meter. How long are the coaxes you're using between the wattmeter and the dummy load? And are there any antenna switches in-line or anything else? Also, what length coax between K2 and wattmeter? 73, Tom ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: FW: FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett, In TUNE, the power control loop is not as tight in the firmware portion of the loop as compared with normal keying. The reason for that is to allow those using a manual tuner with their K2 to be able to adjust it without the power jumping quickly all over the place. I am glad to hear that you had good results with the direct connections - that seems to verify that there is reactance (or other cause of a non-50 ohm purely resistive) condition somewhere in your setup - whether it is the coax, the external wattmeter or the dummy load itself we may never know, but you can check each one easily at the frequencies of interest with an antenna analyzer. You may be able to borrow an AA to make those measurements if you do not have one. You may find some frequency dependency between 1N5711 diodes (I have occasionally noticed that), but I do not consider it a problem because the power indication and control point are not more than a few tenths of a watt off at any point if all is normal. Considering that most wattmeter specs are in the range of 5% to 20% OF THE FULL SCALE READING, the diode detector in the K2 is actually more accurate than most if the load is 50 ohms resistive at the frequency of operation (measuring with an ohmmeter is not suficient, resistance at DC is not likely to be equal to the resistance at RF). On your wattmeter accuracy, consider that even 5% of the 20 watt scale can result in an error of 1 watt at any power level - and even the Bird wattmeter is only that good immediately after calibration - you must expect such errors in your measuring equipment (check the spec sheet and verify the measurement by independent means if you really want accuracy). The Diode Detector is actually more accurate than most wattmeters, but it must be used with a known good non-reactive load. 73, Don W3FPR Brett gazdzinski wrote: At lunch I did some more tests. I made a dummy load using 4 200 ohm 2 watt resistors, measured the resistance at 50 ohms, and plugged that right into the watt meter. The other end of the wattmeter plugged into the K2 antenna jack using adaptors. I did the tx setup per the book, and now have at least 10 watts out on all bands, but it does roll off on the higher bands. 10 meters might be below 10 watts, I don't remember. 80 and 40 meters do about 13 or 14 watts. What the 'tune' button seems to do is measure the rf out per a set power (2 watts), display it, and when out of the tune mode, corrects the power so its right. You can really see it work on 80 and 40 meters, set the power knob to 2 watts, hi the tune button and the meters read 3 watts. Exit the tune mode with the power still set at 2 watts and hit the cw key and I get 2 watts out on the bar graph and my meter. This works a treat on 80, 40, and 30 meters, the power output matches the knob set point and the bar graph very closely AFTER you do the tune setup, at least up past 10 or 12 watts. Above about 30 meters, the bar graph and the tune position start showing more power then the 3 watt meters I have do, I have some diwa little thing, a Kenwood average/pep meter, and the heathkit antenna tuner meter. All read the same. The higher you go above 30 meters, the more the rig says its doing more power out then my meters do. The RF sense circuit is after all the stages, its at the antenna output basically.. I checked all the components in the rf output sense circuit and they are the correct values and measure correctly. I did not mess with the diode (D9 1N5711), nor can I verify its number without unsoldering it. Maybe I should order a few 1N5711 diodes and see if there is any difference in how they act. This sure is a fun rig to trouble shoot and play with, although I am still not over fond of computers in HF gear... Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
FW: FW: FW: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Don, Ok, but why always on the low side and not the hi side of error? 2 to 3 watts out of 10 is 20% which is not that good, and why only at the higher frequencies? On 10 meters, it might say 12 watts out but only give 8 actual watts I want to know why it rolls off at the higher frequencies, that is, the built in meter reads higher than actual power. I suppose I should also test the rig at 14 volts, just to see what the power out is. The manual states that all the measurements were done at 14 volts and I have been doing them at 13.8 key up. My supply is regulated, but not that regulated.. And I wonder what sets the efficiency, output power VS current and voltage in. Would that mostly be T3? Eventually I might want to tweak that! You can likely tell I like playing with radios more than actually operating them, that is why the shack is almost all home brew Well, maybe tonight I will do the spectrogram stuff! Brett N2DTS You may find some frequency dependency between 1N5711 diodes (I have occasionally noticed that), but I do not consider it a problem because the power indication and control point are not more than a few tenths of a watt off at any point if all is normal. Considering that most wattmeter specs are in the range of 5% to 20% OF THE FULL SCALE READING, the diode detector in the K2 is actually more accurate than most if the load is 50 ohms resistive at the frequency of operation (measuring with an ohmmeter is not suficient, resistance at DC is not likely to be equal to the resistance at RF). On your wattmeter accuracy, consider that even 5% of the 20 watt scale can result in an error of 1 watt at any power level - and even the Bird wattmeter is only that good immediately after calibration - you must expect such errors in your measuring equipment (check the spec sheet and verify the measurement by independent means if you really want accuracy). The Diode Detector is actually more accurate than most wattmeters, but it must be used with a known good non-reactive load. 73, Don W3FPR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Kit arrived
Hi, I don't suppose Bretts problem could be as simple as having 1 turn too many on the LP filter toroids? I fixed a K2 for a chap who had done that, and the higher band outputs especially, were rotten. It is a common problem for new kit builders to add an extra turn when winding toroids by not realizing that as soon as the wire passes through the hole, that is turn #1 .. Cheers.Ron ZL1TW -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 7:52 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
I finished the K2 (6065) at about 10pm last night, everything was nominal, my only concern being the low output power on 15 meters (7 watts). I should go back and do a full alignment as handing the RF board was sure to disturb the mounted parts... The entire kit had one missing .1 cap, or I lost it, I had one on hand to use so no problem. I do NEED a knob with a finger dimple! Between 10 and 1130 PM I heard some signals on 80 and 40 meters, not much on the other bands although I did not listen carefully. I think filter 2 needs a tweak and the built in speaker sounds fuzzy, but otherwise all is good. All the adjustments worked, and did not require much tweaking, nothing was at the limit or close to it, most things were quite close right out of the bag. I want to get the ssb option and the auto tuner eventually, and listen to plenty of slow code, then might actually get on the air with the rig! I did not track the hours, but I got the kit Thursday, worked on it Thursday night, Friday night, most of Saturday, Sunday night, and Monday night. The XYL is thrilled its done Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Fw: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Kit arrived... Wow, that was a fast build! Since I enjoy kit building . . . I am going to stretch my K2 #6042 out just a bit, and enjoy the journey as well as the destination. Congratulations on your build and hope you get a lot of pleasure from you K2. 73, Mike N4JX K1/4 # 2319 on the air K2# 6042 next project - Original Message - From: Brett gazdzinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived... I finished the K2 (6065) at about 10pm last night, everything was nominal, my only concern being the low output power on 15 meters (7 watts). I should go back and do a full alignment as handing the RF board was sure to disturb the mounted parts... The entire kit had one missing .1 cap, or I lost it, I had one on hand to use so no problem. I do NEED a knob with a finger dimple! Between 10 and 1130 PM I heard some signals on 80 and 40 meters, not much on the other bands although I did not listen carefully. I think filter 2 needs a tweak and the built in speaker sounds fuzzy, but otherwise all is good. All the adjustments worked, and did not require much tweaking, nothing was at the limit or close to it, most things were quite close right out of the bag. I want to get the ssb option and the auto tuner eventually, and listen to plenty of slow code, then might actually get on the air with the rig! I did not track the hours, but I got the kit Thursday, worked on it Thursday night, Friday night, most of Saturday, Sunday night, and Monday night. The XYL is thrilled its done Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
After work today I got much closer with the vfo calibration, and moved onto the TX alignment. I hooked up the dummy load and the 0-20 watt meter. 3.5 MHz 12.5 watts out, 2.7 amps 7 MHz 14 watts out, 4.3 amps 10 MHz 10 watts out, 2.4 amps 14 MHz 8 watts out,2.3 amps 18 MHz 9 watts out 1.8 amps 21 MHz 9 watts out,1.8 amps 24 MHz 6 watts out,1.5 amps 28 MHz 5 watts out,1.8 amps 13.8 volts per my DMM. When tuning C21 in the 30 meter bandpass, the output power would take off and go to 20 watts till I turned the power down then back up, then it acted normal. In my kit, C22 was a 2.7pf, not the 3.3pf listed. I assumed the 2.7 was what they could get instead of the 3.3. Something is really wrong there, but the parts seem to be the correct values, the toroids have the correct turns, etc. I checked the voltage at the RF output detector and its ok. I looked into all the trouble shooting steps in the manual, made sure all the correct parts are in the correct places, the toroids have the correct turns, etc. Nothing gets hot, or even warm, despite the 5 minute key downs at full power. Looking at things on the spec an, after the power knob is up past 1/2 to 3/4 the harmonics go way up, but I might be picking signal up before the filters. One other thing I noticed, the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, its still pegged. I looked at the signal on the spec an, probing the driver input and output power levels, and I don't think the drive falls off, I did not probe the output of the power amp as it would risk the spec an (1 watt max input). I don't need lots of power out, but dislike when something does not work up to spec. The receiver seems to work very well, although I have not run the spectrogram on the filters yet. Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Bret, I am not certain what you mean by the phrase the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, its still pegged. What do you mean by pegged? Is the internal RF meter indicating a high RF voltage? If so, you should believe that the RF voltage is really high and something is wrong with your test setup. The detector used in the basic K2 is a simple diode detector and does accurately reflect the RF voltage, and the microprocessor calculates that value to watts with the assumption that the load is 50 ohms resistive. Is your load at the time of these measurements a good 50 ohm resistive dummy load? If you do have a good 50 ohm dummy load on the K2, then I would strongly suggest that you check your connecting coax link before doing anything else. What kind of power meter are you using? How has its accuracy been verified? We need to know exactly what your setup is before we can provide informed answers to your questions. How are you measuring the current draw? Is this the indication on the K2 or are you using some other measuring device? All in all, what I can say at the moment is that the base K2 will control its power output according to the RF voltage indicated at the internal diode detector. That detector is not a wattmeter and needs a good 50 ohm resistive load in order for the K2 to control the power output. As far as adjusting C21 - adjust any of the bandpass filter elements at a power of 2 watts or lower. Attempting to adjust them at higher power levels can lead to incorrect alignment due to several other factors. How are you determining that the harmonic content goes way up? That is unusual and indicates that you have a problem with soldering or incorrect components somewhere. The usual cause of high current draw coupled with low power output is the Low Pass Filters and/or the T4 circuitry. Do you have T4 properly wound? 73, Don W3FPR Brett gazdzinski wrote: After work today I got much closer with the vfo calibration, and moved onto the TX alignment. I hooked up the dummy load and the 0-20 watt meter. 3.5 MHz 12.5 watts out, 2.7 amps 7 MHz 14 watts out, 4.3 amps 10 MHz 10 watts out, 2.4 amps 14 MHz 8 watts out,2.3 amps 18 MHz 9 watts out 1.8 amps 21 MHz 9 watts out,1.8 amps 24 MHz 6 watts out,1.5 amps 28 MHz 5 watts out,1.8 amps 13.8 volts per my DMM. When tuning C21 in the 30 meter bandpass, the output power would take off and go to 20 watts till I turned the power down then back up, then it acted normal. In my kit, C22 was a 2.7pf, not the 3.3pf listed. I assumed the 2.7 was what they could get instead of the 3.3. Something is really wrong there, but the parts seem to be the correct values, the toroids have the correct turns, etc. I checked the voltage at the RF output detector and its ok. I looked into all the trouble shooting steps in the manual, made sure all the correct parts are in the correct places, the toroids have the correct turns, etc. Nothing gets hot, or even warm, despite the 5 minute key downs at full power. Looking at things on the spec an, after the power knob is up past 1/2 to 3/4 the harmonics go way up, but I might be picking signal up before the filters. One other thing I noticed, the RF watt meter built into the rig reads correct on 80 and 40, but does not reflect the lower power output on the higher bands, its still pegged. I looked at the signal on the spec an, probing the driver input and output power levels, and I don't think the drive falls off, I did not probe the output of the power amp as it would risk the spec an (1 watt max input). I don't need lots of power out, but dislike when something does not work up to spec. The receiver seems to work very well, although I have not run the spectrogram on the filters yet. Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Hi Brett: I got my front panel board done today, and started on the RF board. So far all seems good, very easy to build, at least so far In case anyone is wondering, they are up to SN 6065! I have read a bit here about setting up the filters, and it being critical, and you need the spectrogram software. Well, it seems to me if you need that to set the rig up so it works correctly, it should be included with the kit? You don't NEED Spectrogram, but it does help quite a bit. The last shareware version of Spectrogram (v5.1.7) is available at www.n0ss.net. You can find it on both the K2- and K1-specific pages of this site, along with K2- and K1-specific PDF documcents for ease of using it. Would a spectrum analyzer help? I have a nice HP 8592l that I used on the homebrew receivers, could I use it on the K2 to set the filters up? I'm sure you could use it as well. But you'll have to get info from someone else. I've never had an opportunity to use a real spectrum analyzer in that use. 73, Tom HammondN0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett Do not hurry but enjoy !!! Happy user of K2/K1/KX1 73 de aki, ja1nlx [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~yy7a-ysd/ http://ja1nlx.exblog.jp/ - Original Message - From: Brett gazdzinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived... My K2 kit arrived yesterday, very fast shipping to New Jersey! I built the control board in a few hours, seems easy to build as long as you have a magnifier to read those little numbers on the parts! The manual is very well done and printed, I like this kit! Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
I got my front panel board done today, and started on the RF board. So far all seems good, very easy to build, at least so far In case anyone is wondering, they are up to SN 6065! I have read a bit here about setting up the filters, and it being critical, and you need the spectrogram software. Well, it seems to me if you need that to set the rig up so it works correctly, it should be included with the kit? Would a spectrum analyzer help? I have a nice HP 8592l that I used on the homebrew receivers, could I use it on the K2 to set the filters up? Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett, You will find Spectrogram easier to use than a spectrum analyzer. Think of Spectrogram as a spectrum analyzer for the audio spectrum (which it is). In general, it will offer better resolution than an RF spectrum analyzer and will provide a plot of the audio response of the K2. Your spectrum analyzer may be helpful in determining the harmonic rejection of the K2, and other RF related parameters, but the audio response analysis offerred by Spectrogram will be sufficient for aligning the K2 filter bandpass. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- I got my front panel board done today, and started on the RF board. So far all seems good, very easy to build, at least so far In case anyone is wondering, they are up to SN 6065! I have read a bit here about setting up the filters, and it being critical, and you need the spectrogram software. Well, it seems to me if you need that to set the rig up so it works correctly, it should be included with the kit? Would a spectrum analyzer help? I have a nice HP 8592l that I used on the homebrew receivers, could I use it on the K2 to set the filters up? Brett N2DTS -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.12/724 - Release Date: 3/16/2007 12:12 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
Brett, N2DTS, asked: I have read a bit here about setting up the filters, and it being critical, and you need the spectrogram software. Well, it seems to me if you need that to set the rig up so it works correctly, it should be included with the kit? == Good point, Brett, and the truth is you can set up the filters without any other stuff. However, Spectrogram is an excellent tool that makes the process infinitely easier. Unfortunately, Elecraft doesn't own it! You can get a copy along with FB detailed instructions on how to use it from one of our long-term list members and great contributor, Tom, N0SS. Go to http://www.n0ss.net/index_k2.html And scroll to the bottom of the page. The next-to-last item is the Spectrogram software. The last item is the step-by-step instructions for using it. Once again, for the thousandth time, *thanks* Tom!! Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Kit arrived...
My K2 kit arrived yesterday, very fast shipping to New Jersey! I built the control board in a few hours, seems easy to build as long as you have a magnifier to read those little numbers on the parts! The manual is very well done and printed, I like this kit! Brett N2DTS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
