Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
If you need to properly solder a UHF-Plug to a cable, you might consider a plug of this type: http://www.steckerprofi-shop.com/themes/kategorie/index.php?id=55katId=64parentId=submenue=0action=detailwas=wo=vonEg=0wievielEintraege=12 Pretty much the same as a N-type connector. Martin DM4iM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
The telecommunications has been crimping, in some cases (such as power and ground connections) for a long time, and in others (such as BNC's for DS3's) for the last 5 years or so. Incidentally, just about all the T1's/DS1's in this country (at one time) were all wire wrapped. Now I think we should get a discussion going about stitching cabling vs. tie wrapping. (Just joking, a little flame bait left lying around) David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW K2 #5982 Jack Smith wrote: Also, MIL-C-39012 has many qualified N crimp connectors. http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-PRF-39012/prf39012ss1.pdf for your reading pleasure. Further these crimp RF connectors appear to be qualified for use on the International Space Station from what I can tell (lots of reference links to follow). As I said in the initial post, you must use the correct tool and connector and if you do it properly the result will be a high quality connection. And, it isn't a friction fit -- it's actually closer to cold welding. Jack Mike S wrote: You could let NASA argue with him. GSFC-733-HARN-01, Rev C, July 2003, DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING STANDARD for ELECTRICAL HARNESSES (GFSC is Goddard Space Flight Center) says: 4.20 Conductor terminations- The preferred method of terminating conductors is with a crimp termination. However, where necessary, solder terminations are acceptable. At 10:34 AM 4/21/2007, Sam Morgan wrote... Sam Morgan wrote: seems I have been corrected, friction contact is better than soldered connections guess my Navy electronics teacher with his 20+ years of experience was a liar, but I'll let ya'll tell him that, I wouldn't dare, I value my life more than that. -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Can anyone identify why some PL259s do not fit some SO239s ? There is a distinct difference in thread. I have never known Ns not to fit properly, but there appear to be 2 types of PL/SO out there. David G3UNA - Original Message - From: Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Elecraft' Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:32 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors While it's true that PL-259 connectors, often called UHF connectors, do not show an impedance of exactly 50 ohms, it's important for those who might be lurking here to know that the impedance bump they produce is not important below 100 MHz or so. On equipment where they are commonly used, such as the K2/100 or an ATU, the impedance of the wiring inside the rig to the connector is likely farther from 50 ohms than the impedance of the connector. These connectors were designed by Amphenol in the 1930's for UHF use. Back then UHF was anything above 10 meters: 30 MHz. The regulated radio spectrum ended at 300 MHz back then. The PL259's continued to be used in commercial applications up in the 200 and 300 MHz range well into the 1960's, and I've seen them used on commercial equipment up into the 100+ MHz range in recent years. So, in terms of impedance matching, there's no reason to consider the UHF connector inferior to any newer types for the HF bands, and even through 6 meters at least. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- They're fine connectors, but I don't see any advantage to using them on your K2. Their most useful feature is that they're constant impedance 50 ohm devices, as are the BNC's used on your K2. The PL-259 series is not 50 ohms. Trivia: There -ARE- 72 ohm Type N''s, but they're not common.. There are many devices for which Type N's are an absolute must, such as VHF and UHF power dividers, but a K2 isn't one of these. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:32:34 -0700 Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, in terms of impedance matching, there's no reason to consider the UHF connector inferior to any newer types for the HF bands, and even through 6 meters at least. Ron AC7AC hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Saturday, April 21, 2007 at 10:13 AM, John GM4SLV wrote: Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). - I agree with John and installed 'N' connectors in my KPA100 at the outset for the same reasons. 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. snip uh pardon my ignorance... since when is a compression styled contact point *electrically* superior to a soldered one? at any frequency? -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Larry, Try Sharper Concepts www.sharperconcepts.net. You may have to buy two crimpers to cover all common coax sizes, but I found their prices less than a single tool with interchangable dies. I don't know if they are the cheapest, but I don't usually buy tools just because they are cheap, cheap tools are usually not up to the task that needs to be done, but some quality tools are moderately priced. Cheap tools are rarely any bargain. 73, Don W3FPR Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Sam, Crimped connections are superior to soldered whenever the crimp provides a gas-tight connection. In a similar manner, wire connections made onto square posts with a proper wire-wrap tool provide a better connection than one which is soldered. 73, Don W3FPR Sam Morgan wrote: uh pardon my ignorance... since when is a compression styled contact point *electrically* superior to a soldered one? at any frequency? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:42:03 -0500 Sam Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. snip uh pardon my ignorance... since when is a compression styled contact point *electrically* superior to a soldered one? at any frequency? I'm pleasantly surprised that so many people are joining the N type is better than UHF camp, but like Sam I still think crimp connections aren't the way to go. Apart from the cost of decent tools I find crimp connectors that are put to any sort of regular handling tend to fail earlier. If the cable is permanently installed and laced into a bay for example then they last quite well, but I still prefer to solder my centre pins and rely on the large surface area and clamping pressure of a traditional plug for making the braid/shell connection. I've particularly never been happy crimping N types onto larger cables (eg RG213), although there are a few cables like that in our local UHF TV transmitters that I've installed. The first sign of failure and they'll be replace with proper ones! I've put hundreds of N/BNC/TNC/SMA/SMB/SMC connectors on at work and it galls me to have to use PL259s at home, so as far as I can I avoid. The pressure clamp variety is the only style of 259 I'll work with, and if I can't get hold of one then I use a 295 to N or BNC adaptor and a properly terminated cable. Any (tiny) loss in the adaptor is more than offset by the satisfaction of knowing the connector/cable termination is right. Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
1. Properly applied, the crimp provides a gas-tight metal-to-metal seal. 2. Also, the ferrule provides a strain relief at least as good as the braid-clamp in a conventional N or BNC connector. 3. For UHF connectors, double crimp = no heat and thus eliminates the chance of melting the dielectric when used with polyethylene dielectric cables. 4. I installed a batch of 50 SMA bulkheads connectors with 0.080 diameter Teflon coax last year and it would have been a real challenge with other than a crimp shield connector. 5. I've swept the crimp connectors I install up to 3 GHz with my VNA and find them more than adequate in terms of return loss and through loss. 6. As far as longevity, I have some crimped UHF connectors that are 20 years old installed outside (protected with Scotch 33 electrical tape, then self-amalgamating tape, topped off with Scotchcoat and they show no signs of degradation. 7. Your opinion may differ and your standards for adequate return loss may differ from mine. Jack Sam Morgan wrote: Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. snip uh pardon my ignorance... since when is a compression styled contact point *electrically* superior to a soldered one? at any frequency? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
I bought my tool and die sets from RF Parts http://www.rfparts.com/. I have seen what seems to be the same tool at about half the price searching around on the internet a while ago, but I can't be sure if it is exactly the same. RF Connection http://www.therfc.com/ also has an interchangable die tool that's more reasonablly priced, but again I can't be sure it's the same. It looks the same, but it's hard to judge a tool without having it in your hands. And Don is 100% right, a cheap tool is no bargain if it breaks or does not do the job right. I would look for a ratcheting type tool, as crimping RG213/214 size cable requires a lot of pressure and the ratcheting feature helps. I don't think even a ratcheting tool will work for larger cables, such as LMR600, where you need a lot of force. I believe those use a hydraulic crimper. I wound up with three die sets to cover the work I do. Jack Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Hello all, Just my 2 cents. I don't own any type N connectors personally, but I do work on military aircraft and have never seen a UHF connector used. Crimping is not allowed; soldering is the only option for everything. 73 Brian N1WNC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Smith Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:19 AM To: Larry Phipps Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors I bought my tool and die sets from RF Parts http://www.rfparts.com/. I have seen what seems to be the same tool at about half the price searching around on the internet a while ago, but I can't be sure if it is exactly the same. RF Connection http://www.therfc.com/ also has an interchangable die tool that's more reasonablly priced, but again I can't be sure it's the same. It looks the same, but it's hard to judge a tool without having it in your hands. And Don is 100% right, a cheap tool is no bargain if it breaks or does not do the job right. I would look for a ratcheting type tool, as crimping RG213/214 size cable requires a lot of pressure and the ratcheting feature helps. I don't think even a ratcheting tool will work for larger cables, such as LMR600, where you need a lot of force. I believe those use a hydraulic crimper. I wound up with three die sets to cover the work I do. Jack Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs on the rigs...why not continue that to the PA? Even a BNC is adequate for the power levels involved and anyone with a K2 must be happy with working with BNCs already /hobby horse Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Sam Morgan wrote: seems I have been corrected, friction contact is better than soldered connections guess my Navy electronics teacher with his 20+ years of experience was a liar, but I'll let ya'll tell him that, I wouldn't dare, I value my life more than that. -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
I have several good tools... just had to respond to that opening ;-) 73, Larry N8LP Don Wilhelm wrote: Larry, Try Sharper Concepts www.sharperconcepts.net. You may have to buy two crimpers to cover all common coax sizes, but I found their prices less than a single tool with interchangable dies. I don't know if they are the cheapest, but I don't usually buy tools just because they are cheap, cheap tools are usually not up to the task that needs to be done, but some quality tools are moderately priced. Cheap tools are rarely any bargain. 73, Don W3FPR Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Hi Sam, I wouldn't call anyone a liar either, but I remember an instructor at Destroyer School (also Navy) telling us how to handle a misfire on 5 inch guns. He said - and I'm not making this up - that if the barrel is hot, we should NOT attempt to cool it off by hosing it down with cold water from the fire hoses as that would drive the heat in and perhaps cook-off the misfired round. I'm sure this guy had not majored in physics, and probably had never studied thermodynamics. He was simply parroting what his gunnery instructor had told him. That's how misconceptions take on an air of authenticity over time. 73, Tom I -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Morgan Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:34 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors Sam Morgan wrote: seems I have been corrected, friction contact is better than soldered connections guess my Navy electronics teacher with his 20+ years of experience was a liar, but I'll let ya'll tell him that, I wouldn't dare, I value my life more than that. -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
I'm surprised to hear that. I understand it was the aircraft industry that developed crimping as a more reliable way to make joints than soldering, at least for regular wiring in aircraft. Having seen a lot of bad soldering and assembly of PL259s done by my amateur friends, I have a mind to buy a crimper set for the club so the members can make quality connections to the plugs of their choice. David G3UNA - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors Hello all, Just my 2 cents. I don't own any type N connectors personally, but I do work on military aircraft and have never seen a UHF connector used. Crimping is not allowed; soldering is the only option for everything. 73 Brian N1WNC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Smith Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:19 AM To: Larry Phipps Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors I bought my tool and die sets from RF Parts http://www.rfparts.com/. I have seen what seems to be the same tool at about half the price searching around on the internet a while ago, but I can't be sure if it is exactly the same. RF Connection http://www.therfc.com/ also has an interchangable die tool that's more reasonablly priced, but again I can't be sure it's the same. It looks the same, but it's hard to judge a tool without having it in your hands. And Don is 100% right, a cheap tool is no bargain if it breaks or does not do the job right. I would look for a ratcheting type tool, as crimping RG213/214 size cable requires a lot of pressure and the ratcheting feature helps. I don't think even a ratcheting tool will work for larger cables, such as LMR600, where you need a lot of force. I believe those use a hydraulic crimper. I wound up with three die sets to cover the work I do. Jack Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I agree that nobody is going to notice a performance problem with UHF connectors at HF but they just feel wrong to me... I didn't even know Elecraft used 259s on some of their products (only having a barefoot K2 and a K1) and it kinda surprises me. They use BNCs
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
You could let NASA argue with him. GSFC-733-HARN-01, Rev C, July 2003, DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING STANDARD for ELECTRICAL HARNESSES (GFSC is Goddard Space Flight Center) says: 4.20 Conductor terminations- The preferred method of terminating conductors is with a crimp termination. However, where necessary, solder terminations are acceptable. At 10:34 AM 4/21/2007, Sam Morgan wrote... Sam Morgan wrote: seems I have been corrected, friction contact is better than soldered connections guess my Navy electronics teacher with his 20+ years of experience was a liar, but I'll let ya'll tell him that, I wouldn't dare, I value my life more than that. -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Also, MIL-C-39012 has many qualified N crimp connectors. http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-PRF-39012/prf39012ss1.pdf for your reading pleasure. Further these crimp RF connectors appear to be qualified for use on the International Space Station from what I can tell (lots of reference links to follow). As I said in the initial post, you must use the correct tool and connector and if you do it properly the result will be a high quality connection. And, it isn't a friction fit -- it's actually closer to cold welding. Jack Mike S wrote: You could let NASA argue with him. GSFC-733-HARN-01, Rev C, July 2003, DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING STANDARD for ELECTRICAL HARNESSES (GFSC is Goddard Space Flight Center) says: 4.20 Conductor terminations- The preferred method of terminating conductors is with a crimp termination. However, where necessary, solder terminations are acceptable. At 10:34 AM 4/21/2007, Sam Morgan wrote... Sam Morgan wrote: seems I have been corrected, friction contact is better than soldered connections guess my Navy electronics teacher with his 20+ years of experience was a liar, but I'll let ya'll tell him that, I wouldn't dare, I value my life more than that. -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Brian, Then there must be a difference between original manufacture and repair for those connections. The prior information I have from NASA and for avionics applications is that crimping is the preferred method of fastening. The only reason I can think of to vary from that in the field is that the proper tools may not be universally available. As has been pointed out, a proper crimped connection requires the proper tool and connectors designed to be used with those tools. Vary either piece of the equation and you end up with an unreliable connection. You can take some shortcuts with soldering, but if you crimp, make certain all the elements are correct. For instance, I do not crimp my Anderson PowerPole connections - because I do not have the correct tool - I have tried the low-priced model, and I have experienced several connector failures and have gone back to soldering them. 73, Don W3FPR Brian wrote: Hello all, Just my 2 cents. I don't own any type N connectors personally, but I do work on military aircraft and have never seen a UHF connector used. Crimping is not allowed; soldering is the only option for everything. 73 Brian N1WNC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Smith Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:19 AM To: Larry Phipps Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors I bought my tool and die sets from RF Parts http://www.rfparts.com/. I have seen what seems to be the same tool at about half the price searching around on the internet a while ago, but I can't be sure if it is exactly the same. RF Connection http://www.therfc.com/ also has an interchangable die tool that's more reasonablly priced, but again I can't be sure it's the same. It looks the same, but it's hard to judge a tool without having it in your hands. And Don is 100% right, a cheap tool is no bargain if it breaks or does not do the job right. I would look for a ratcheting type tool, as crimping RG213/214 size cable requires a lot of pressure and the ratcheting feature helps. I don't think even a ratcheting tool will work for larger cables, such as LMR600, where you need a lot of force. I believe those use a hydraulic crimper. I wound up with three die sets to cover the work I do. Jack Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only failing with BNC and N connectors was that I did not pay enough attention to the coax stripping length instructions. I have finally invested in a set of ratchet crimpers so I can use crimp style connectors - that makes the BNC/N/TNC/C connectors MUCH easier to assemble than the UHF type - but one must still be careful about cutting the coax correctly. 73, Don W3FPR John GM4SLV wrote: hobby horse But in terms of being a PITA to put the plugs on correctly, and mostly these days they seem made of soft cheese, I'd have a /real/ RF connector over a UHF one any day. Proper N/BNC/TNC/C types, with pressure sleave and top hat ferrule for under the braid are a joy to fit, requiring a knife, a pair of small sidecutters, a _small_ soldering iron for the centre pin only and a couple of small spanners to do up the clamp nut. No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:06:08 -0400 Jack Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, MIL-C-39012 has many qualified N crimp connectors. http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-PRF-39012/prf39012ss1.pdf for your reading pleasure. Further these crimp RF connectors appear to be qualified for use on the International Space Station from what I can tell (lots of reference links to follow). As I said in the initial post, you must use the correct tool and connector and if you do it properly the result will be a high quality connection. And, it isn't a friction fit -- it's actually closer to cold welding. Jack I've learned a lot today about crimping connectors! I might have to re-think my opinion, but then that's what make this a good group to be involved with. I have a tool and some dies at work, perhaps I will make up some crimped leads and some soldered leads and compare them! I still find it odd that the KPA100 has SO239s though... Cheers, John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
Don, et al: What a great thread ! I have only experience with crimping BNC and SMA connectors and, strangely enough, LMR-600. Yep, I borrowed the crimping tool for LMR-600 which is outrageously expensive from a cell telephone outfit here in town. The owner is a ham friend of mine and he gave me an N-connector to go on my long run on LMR-600. It has worked flawlessly. Don, I use the correct crimp tool (I got mine from West Mountain Radio) for Power-Poles and it works great. Sometimes I will both crimp and solder them. I've never crimped PL-259's or N connectors but, brother, would that have saved some time around here !! HI I'll check into this. 73, Jamie WB4YDL -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:22 AM To: Brian Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors Brian, Then there must be a difference between original manufacture and repair for those connections. The prior information I have from NASA and for avionics applications is that crimping is the preferred method of fastening. The only reason I can think of to vary from that in the field is that the proper tools may not be universally available. As has been pointed out, a proper crimped connection requires the proper tool and connectors designed to be used with those tools. Vary either piece of the equation and you end up with an unreliable connection. You can take some shortcuts with soldering, but if you crimp, make certain all the elements are correct. For instance, I do not crimp my Anderson PowerPole connections - because I do not have the correct tool - I have tried the low-priced model, and I have experienced several connector failures and have gone back to soldering them. 73, Don W3FPR Brian wrote: Hello all, Just my 2 cents. I don't own any type N connectors personally, but I do work on military aircraft and have never seen a UHF connector used. Crimping is not allowed; soldering is the only option for everything. 73 Brian N1WNC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Smith Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:19 AM To: Larry Phipps Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors I bought my tool and die sets from RF Parts http://www.rfparts.com/. I have seen what seems to be the same tool at about half the price searching around on the internet a while ago, but I can't be sure if it is exactly the same. RF Connection http://www.therfc.com/ also has an interchangable die tool that's more reasonablly priced, but again I can't be sure it's the same. It looks the same, but it's hard to judge a tool without having it in your hands. And Don is 100% right, a cheap tool is no bargain if it breaks or does not do the job right. I would look for a ratcheting type tool, as crimping RG213/214 size cable requires a lot of pressure and the ratcheting feature helps. I don't think even a ratcheting tool will work for larger cables, such as LMR600, where you need a lot of force. I believe those use a hydraulic crimper. I wound up with three die sets to cover the work I do. Jack Larry Phipps wrote: Thanks Jack. That begs the question for us lazy types... which supplier is cheapest? 73, Larry N8LP Jack Smith wrote: I would add that once you have a good crimp tool, such as the ratcheting type Don mentions, one can install crimp UHF connectors as well. I switched to crimp-type connectors quite a while ago and find them superior to solder-type connectors. Some crimp connectors are double-crimp, i.e., both the center pin and shield are crimped and others have a solder-type center pin and crimp shield. It's important that the crimp connector be the correct one for the coax type and that you use the correct die size, of course. Some crimp tools have interchangeable die sets and others are made with a non-removable die. If you decide to buy a crimp tool, shop around, as there is at least a 2:1 price variation from supplier-to-supplier for what seems to be the same tool. Jack K8ZOA Don Wilhelm wrote: John, I too have come to the conclusion that working with BNC and N connectors is actually a lot easier than UHF types. But I continually hear from hams that look at the K2 and point to the BNC connector on the QRP unit then comment THAT would HAVE to be changed to a UHF type - that is all I use. Somehow there seems to be a prevalent opinion that BNC and N connectors are harder to assemble than UHF, but I find exactly the opposite to be true. While it IS easy to assemble a UHF connector improperly and have it 'work' (after a fashion), improperly assembled BNC/N/TNC/C connectors usually won't work at all. In the past, I subscribed to the 'UHF is easier' camp until I discovered that my only
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:13:40 +0100, John GM4SLV wrote: No messing about with soldering guns, blow torches or whatever people use to try and make a decent fist of soldering the braid (or usually just relying on pressure and the mstical force of gravity to hold the braid in contact with the shell of the plug). I've been spoiled over the years with making crimped BNC connectors (both pin and shield) but I no longer have access to that. About a year ago there appeared a New Product listing in QST for a right proper PL-259 crimper requiring only soldering the center conductor. I haven't bought one (yet) but it did look interesting. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:31:36 -0500, Brian wrote: Just my 2 cents. I don't own any type N connectors personally, but I do work on military aircraft and have never seen a UHF connector used. Crimping is not allowed; soldering is the only option for everything. That's odd. When I worked on the fire control systems of USN carrier-based aircraft at the Douglas Aircraft factory in the mid-1950s only MIL-spec crimped connections were allowed. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:55:19 +0100, David Cutter wrote: Having seen a lot of bad soldering and assembly of PL259s done by my amateur friends, I have a mind to buy a crimper set for the club so the members can make quality connections to the plugs of their choice. Excellent Idea! Our ARES/RACES sponsor (Washington County Emergency Services) bought us a MFJ antenna analyzer and the availability of it has worked out very well. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:21:37 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: For instance, I do not crimp my Anderson PowerPole connections - because I do not have the correct tool - I have tried the low-priced model, and I have experienced several connector failures and have gone back to soldering them. After using the non-ratcheted crimper I felt the same way. I finally went to the ratchet crimper marketed by West Mountain and have never had a failure. Miscrimps, yes, because with my limited close-up eyesight it's not that easy to make sure that the pin is in the slot properly (I work by feel). As we've all said - the proper tool. May I add - the proper procedure as well. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
We use crimp only at work. Loads of BNC connectors on 45 mb DS3 cables, they get abused and never seem to fail. We have a very expensive amphenol tool that crimps the shield and center pins. We also crimp the 48 volt power wires, 200 amp and so on, very special tools for that, and the wire has to be correct, they pulled out all the old welding cable and put in stuff that is really hard to work with, hard and inflexible, but I suppose it holds the crimps well. I like solder, and its usually much cheaper than a good tool and all the dies, but crimping done right is very good. When some think of crimping, they think of spade lugs with a cheap hand tool crimp...you know, the ones the wires pull right out of... Brett N2DTS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John GM4SLV Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:58 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:06:08 -0400 Jack Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, MIL-C-39012 has many qualified N crimp connectors. http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-PRF-39012/p rf39012ss1.pdf for your reading pleasure. Further these crimp RF connectors appear to be qualified for use on the International Space Station from what I can tell (lots of reference links to follow). As I said in the initial post, you must use the correct tool and connector and if you do it properly the result will be a high quality connection. And, it isn't a friction fit -- it's actually closer to cold welding. Jack I've learned a lot today about crimping connectors! I might have to re-think my opinion, but then that's what make this a good group to be involved with. I have a tool and some dies at work, perhaps I will make up some crimped leads and some soldered leads and compare them! I still find it odd that the KPA100 has SO239s though... Cheers, John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Type N connectors
They're fine connectors, but I don't see any advantage to using them on your K2. Their most useful feature is that they're constant impedance 50 ohm devices, as are the BNC's used on your K2. The PL-259 series is not 50 ohms. Trivia: There -ARE- 72 ohm Type N''s, but they're not common.. There are many devices for which Type N's are an absolute must, such as VHF and UHF power dividers, but a K2 isn't one of these. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
I don't see any reason an OM or YL shouldn't put in N connectors instead of SO-239's in a KAT100 if he or she wants to. The flanges are interchangeable, or at least identically-drilled ones are available. If everything else in the shack is N series, there's no reason to have an adapter. I say go for it if you want to. I changed a UHF out for an N on the deiven element of my antenna and it fit perfectly. 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Type N connectors
While it's true that PL-259 connectors, often called UHF connectors, do not show an impedance of exactly 50 ohms, it's important for those who might be lurking here to know that the impedance bump they produce is not important below 100 MHz or so. On equipment where they are commonly used, such as the K2/100 or an ATU, the impedance of the wiring inside the rig to the connector is likely farther from 50 ohms than the impedance of the connector. These connectors were designed by Amphenol in the 1930's for UHF use. Back then UHF was anything above 10 meters: 30 MHz. The regulated radio spectrum ended at 300 MHz back then. The PL259's continued to be used in commercial applications up in the 200 and 300 MHz range well into the 1960's, and I've seen them used on commercial equipment up into the 100+ MHz range in recent years. So, in terms of impedance matching, there's no reason to consider the UHF connector inferior to any newer types for the HF bands, and even through 6 meters at least. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- They're fine connectors, but I don't see any advantage to using them on your K2. Their most useful feature is that they're constant impedance 50 ohm devices, as are the BNC's used on your K2. The PL-259 series is not 50 ohms. Trivia: There -ARE- 72 ohm Type N''s, but they're not common.. There are many devices for which Type N's are an absolute must, such as VHF and UHF power dividers, but a K2 isn't one of these. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
