Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Hi John, The clock's accuracy is typically +/- 2 seconds per day. If that doesn't suffice for a long trip, and you don't have a timepiece to correlate it to, you could attempt to adjust the frequency of the clock crystal closer to 32768 Hz. This usually requires some long-term experimentation. Putting a frequency counter on the crystal will load it down unless you have a very low-C FET probe. There's a capacitor connected to the crystal that can be adjusted in value slightly without impacting the oscillator. It's easy to slow the clock down; just parallel a small amount of additional capacitance. Speeding it up requires a decrease in capacitance, which means removing a surface mount capacitor first. Let me know if you need advice on how to do this. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Time set is in the config menu. It is on page 53 in my manual. It is not easy to figure out, but activate the Config menu, find TIME with the VFO B knob. Tap 1 for hours, 2 for minutes, 3 for seconds then rotate the VFO A knob to change the number. If your problem is finding the correct time in Kabul, use your GPS to find the correct time. Hope this is what you are asking. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ From: John To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 12:24:35 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy Besides trivializing the subject, has anyone a way to make the clock in the K# accurate. I foind it of value when in places like Kabul where there is no access to WWV (for example) and while working a contest (like CQ WWSSB). John Kountz, KE6GFF/T6EE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
My clock runs about 15 seconds fast by the end of summer, and this is made up by the following spring in my sometimes heated ham shack. The annual error is very small. But temperature is a factor. I originally thought that all frequencies on the K3 would be controlled by the TCXO, but, of course, it is not running all the time. 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Hi John, > > The clock's accuracy is typically +/- 2 seconds per day. If that > doesn't suffice for a long trip, and you don't have a timepiece to > correlate it to, you could attempt to adjust the frequency of the > clock crystal closer to 32768 Hz. This usually requires some long-term > experimentation. Putting a frequency counter on the crystal will load > it down unless you have a very low-C FET probe. > > There's a capacitor connected to the crystal that can be adjusted in > value slightly without impacting the oscillator. It's easy to slow the > clock down; just parallel a small amount of additional capacitance. > Speeding it up requires a decrease in capacitance, which means > removing a surface mount capacitor first. Let me know if you need > advice on how to do this. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Wayne, Finally! John __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
The TCXO has no relation to the K3's real-time clock, which has its own crystal. Neat idea, though :) Of course the RTC is powered at all times, even with the rig is off, via its own 3-V battery. The TXCO is powered down when the rig is off. 73, Wayne N6KR On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Rick Dettinger wrote: > My clock runs about 15 seconds fast by the end of summer, and this > is made up by the following spring in my sometimes heated ham > shack. The annual error is very small. But temperature is a > factor. I originally thought that all frequencies on the K3 would > be controlled by the TCXO, but, of course, it is not running all the > time. > > 73, > Rick Dettinger K7MW > > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> The clock's accuracy is typically +/- 2 seconds per day __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or projected life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? 73 de M0XDF -- A successful man is one who makes more money than a wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man. -Lana Turner, actress (1921-1995) On 24 Jun 2010, at 19:28, Wayne Burdick wrote: > The TCXO has no relation to the K3's real-time clock, which has its > own crystal. Neat idea, though :) Of course the RTC is powered at all > times, even with the rig is off, via its own 3-V battery. The TXCO is > powered down when the rig is off. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Rick Dettinger wrote: > >> My clock runs about 15 seconds fast by the end of summer, and this >> is made up by the following spring in my sometimes heated ham >> shack. The annual error is very small. But temperature is a >> factor. I originally thought that all frequencies on the K3 would >> be controlled by the TCXO, but, of course, it is not running all the >> time. >> >> 73, >> Rick Dettinger K7MW >> >> >> >> On Jun 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: >> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> The clock's accuracy is typically +/- 2 seconds per day > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or projected life > - without taking the cover off and measuring it? > 73 de M0XDF Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. They dropped the idea. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
"...Time set is in the config menu. .." The easiest way is to use the K3 Utility. Trivial setting the time this way. Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
The RTC IC has a low voltage detector which sets a bit in the seconds register. Thus (from the IC data sheet): 8.5 Voltage-low detector and clock monitor The PCF8563 has an on-chip voltage-low detector. When VDD drops below Vlow the VL bit (Voltage Low, bit 7 in the Seconds register) is set to indicate that reliable clock/calendar information is no longer guaranteed. The VL flag can only be cleared by software So it's easy, just software ;-) Richard KL0DR At 10:43 AM 6/24/2010, Brian Alsop wrote: >David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > > Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or > projected life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? > > 73 de M0XDF > >Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype >PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it >many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it >removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. > >They dropped the idea. > >73 de Brian/K3KO >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I'd like to be able to check occasionally - the K3 is quite often off 12v for some time 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! On 24 Jun 2010, at 19:43, Brian Alsop wrote: > David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: >> Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or projected >> life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? >> 73 de M0XDF > > Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype > PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it > many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it > removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. > > They dropped the idea. > > 73 de Brian/K3KO > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
so perhaps that could be added to the Utility 73 de M0XDF -- A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness. -Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973) On 24 Jun 2010, at 20:11, Richard Dowling wrote: > The RTC IC has a low voltage detector which sets a bit in the seconds > register. Thus (from the IC data sheet): > > 8.5 Voltage-low detector and clock monitor > The PCF8563 has an on-chip voltage-low detector. When VDD drops below Vlow the > VL bit (Voltage Low, bit 7 in the Seconds register) is set to > indicate that reliable > clock/calendar information is no longer guaranteed. The VL flag can > only be cleared > by software > > So it's easy, just software ;-) > > Richard > KL0DR > > At 10:43 AM 6/24/2010, Brian Alsop wrote: >> David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: >>> Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or >> projected life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? >>> 73 de M0XDF >> >> Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype >> PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it >> many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it >> removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. >> >> They dropped the idea. >> >> 73 de Brian/K3KO >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I'm curious which way the clock is off, fast or slow? There is a dedicated clock IC on the front panel board which has a fixed capacitor across the 32.768 KHz crystal. The data sheet for the PCF8563 clock IC states that that capicator can made a trimmer to set the frequency exactly. Of course, if the problem is in the way the MCU updates the clock, say internally rather than reading the clock IC, then errors could accumulate until the MCU reads the clock IC again. Richard KL0DR At 09:24 AM 6/24/2010, John wrote: >Besides trivializing the subject, has anyone a way to make the clock in the >K# accurate. I foind it of value when in places like Kabul where there is >no access to WWV (for example) and while working a contest (like CQ WWSSB). >John Kountz, KE6GFF/T6EE > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
David, The coin battery is not recharged - it operates standalone. It will normally last for several years. Consider the frequency with which you have to replace those coin batteries in computers - the K3 clock battery should have a similar lifetime. 73, Don W3FPR David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > I'd like to be able to check occasionally - the K3 is quite often off 12v for > some time > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Would not the act of changing the battery clear/reset this bit. With no battery present what would sustain this information? Bob K2TK On 6/24/2010 3:11 PM, Richard Dowling wrote: > The RTC IC has a low voltage detector which sets a bit in the seconds > register. Thus (from the IC data sheet): > > 8.5 Voltage-low detector and clock monitor > The PCF8563 has an on-chip voltage-low detector. When VDD drops below Vlow the > VL bit (Voltage Low, bit 7 in the Seconds register) is set to > indicate that reliable > clock/calendar information is no longer guaranteed. The VL flag can > only be cleared > by software > > So it's easy, just software ;-) > > Richard > KL0DR > > At 10:43 AM 6/24/2010, Brian Alsop wrote: > >> David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: >> >>> Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or >>> >> projected life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? >> >>> 73 de M0XDF >>> >> Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype >> PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it >> many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it >> removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. >> >> They dropped the idea. >> >> 73 de Brian/K3KO > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
The click chip is not directly accessible from the RS 232 interface Dick, K6KR Sent from my iPhone On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:35 PM, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" wrote: > so perhaps that could be added to the Utility > 73 de M0XDF > -- > A good cook is like a sorceress who dispenses happiness. > -Elsa Schiaparelli, fashion designer (1890-1973) > > On 24 Jun 2010, at 20:11, Richard Dowling wrote: > >> The RTC IC has a low voltage detector which sets a bit in the seconds >> register. Thus (from the IC data sheet): >> >> 8.5 Voltage-low detector and clock monitor >> The PCF8563 has an on-chip voltage-low detector. When VDD drops below Vlow >> the >> VL bit (Voltage Low, bit 7 in the Seconds register) is set to >> indicate that reliable >> clock/calendar information is no longer guaranteed. The VL flag can >> only be cleared >> by software >> >> So it's easy, just software ;-) >> >> Richard >> KL0DR >> >> At 10:43 AM 6/24/2010, Brian Alsop wrote: >>> David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Regarding the battery, is there a way to check it's voltage or >>> projected life - without taking the cover off and measuring it? 73 de M0XDF >>> >>> Reminds me of the same suggestion implemented in a few IBM prototype >>> PC'S for the CMOS battery. They devised a circuit to go in and test it >>> many times per day. Unfortunately, the act of repeatedly testing it >>> removed enough energy to greatly shorten battery life. >>> >>> They dropped the idea. >>> >>> 73 de Brian/K3KO >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Thanks Don, in that case I won't worry about it. I realised it wasn't recharged, but thought perhaps the drain was less when the K3 is connected to 12v. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- It is not how old you are, but how you are old. -Jules Renard, writer (1864-1910) On 24 Jun 2010, at 20:53, Don Wilhelm wrote: > David, > > The coin battery is not recharged - it operates standalone. It will normally > last for several years. Consider the frequency with which you have to > replace those coin batteries in computers - the K3 clock battery should have > a similar lifetime. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: >> I'd like to be able to check occasionally - the K3 is quite often off 12v >> for some time >> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Hi Wayne I'd like to adjust mine - would the cap on the clock chip be worth changing to a trimmer? Clock is slow by 4 MINUTES after 4 months which is bit annoying. Thanks and 73 John VE3NFK -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5219883.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
On Jun 24, 2010, at 3:34 PM, VE3NFK wrote: > > > Hi Wayne > > I'd like to adjust mine - would the cap on the clock chip be worth > changing > to a trimmer? You could do that. > > Clock is slow by 4 MINUTES after 4 months which is bit annoying. That's right at the upper boundary of the accuracy spec. If you don't put a trimmer on, maybe check it against WWV once a month? Also note that you can automatically update the RTC based on your PC's time/date whenever you run K3Utility. 73, Wayne N6KR > > Thanks and 73 John VE3NFK > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5219883.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Thanks Wayne I know about and use the K3 Utility - but would like it to be better - IF you know off the top of your head which cap to change for a trimmer then that would be nice - otherwise I'll dig through the schematics. Won't do it until next time I need to open 'er up! 73 John VE3N On 24 June 2010 18:58, wayne burdick [via Elecraft] wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 3:34 PM, VE3NFK wrote: > >> >> >> Hi Wayne >> >> I'd like to adjust mine - would the cap on the clock chip be worth >> changing >> to a trimmer? > > You could do that. > >> >> Clock is slow by 4 MINUTES after 4 months which is bit annoying. > > That's right at the upper boundary of the accuracy spec. If you don't > put a trimmer on, maybe check it against WWV once a month? > > Also note that you can automatically update the RTC based on your PC's > time/date whenever you run K3Utility. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > >> >> Thanks and 73 John VE3NFK >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5219883.html >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > View message @ > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5219950.html > To unsubscribe from Re: Clock Accuracy, click here. > -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5219969.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
On 6/24/2010 3:34 PM, VE3NFK wrote: > Clock is slow by 4 MINUTES after 4 months which is bit annoying. "Railroad accuracy" is 30 seconds per month, resettable when it gets That far out. Looks like you are only half as accurate as my wristwatch. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
The clock on my K3 isn't terribly accurate either. But I've since learned how to deal with it. Pretty much every piece of electronics you buy these days has a clock in it. I've found absolutely zero correlation between the accuracy of the clocks and the overall quality or cost of the equipment. The worst clock here is in a $6K Agilent scope! Here's how to get around it - ignore the clocks! I don't even bother setting them or changing for DST, etc. The only two clocks I use in the shack are the wall-mounted radio controlled clock and the computer/logging clock which both adjust automatically and are plenty accurate for me ;>) 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Craig, A personal AMEN to that. I have two clocks in the hamshack that I use - the atomic clock which also tells me the date and day of the week in addition to both the indoor and outdoor temperature, and the MFJ 24 hour analog clock on the wall which is set to GMT. I can tell at a glance what the time is, no button pushing and I don't care what the K3 clock says. When logging, I get the hour from the 24 hour clock and the minutes from the atomic clock - works for me. If I take my K3 "out for the weekend", I can use K3 Utility to sync it to the computer clock just before I leave. If the K3 clock ends up 30 seconds off after two days, do I care? Not a bit! Actually out in the field, I use my wristwatch in preferrence to the K3 clock, but maybe that is just my choice - can't teach an old dog new tricks! My computer clock is quite accurate because it syncs every day to a NIST standard. I run Atomic Clock Sync (Google for it) as a service on the computer - meets my needs. 73, Don W3FPR Craig D. Smith wrote: > The clock on my K3 isn't terribly accurate either. But I've since learned > how to deal with it. Pretty much every piece of electronics you buy these > days has a clock in it. I've found absolutely zero correlation between the > accuracy of the clocks and the overall quality or cost of the equipment. > The worst clock here is in a $6K Agilent scope! > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
When did 2 second a month, or even 4 minutes in 4 months make a due or die situation people.. It's a clock guy... reset it if it's wrong. This is ham radio people, not NASA science...Okay, you're log is off by 2 seconds... How far off do you think the other guy your talking to has his clock off.. My guess is it doesn't match yours no matter how accurate you have it in the K3. Are we done yet? I belive Wayne already told you how to adjust it. > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:17:08 -0400 > From: w3...@embarqmail.com > To: cr...@powersmith.net > CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy > > Craig, > > A personal AMEN to that. I have two clocks in the hamshack that I use - > the atomic clock which also tells me the date and day of the week in > addition to both the indoor and outdoor temperature, and the MFJ 24 hour > analog clock on the wall which is set to GMT. I can tell at a glance > what the time is, no button pushing and I don't care what the K3 clock > says. When logging, I get the hour from the 24 hour clock and the > minutes from the atomic clock - works for me. If I take my K3 "out for > the weekend", I can use K3 Utility to sync it to the computer clock just > before I leave. If the K3 clock ends up 30 seconds off after two days, > do I care? Not a bit! Actually out in the field, I use my wristwatch > in preferrence to the K3 clock, but maybe that is just my choice - can't > teach an old dog new tricks! > > My computer clock is quite accurate because it syncs every day to a NIST > standard. I run Atomic Clock Sync (Google for it) as a service on the > computer - meets my needs. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Craig D. Smith wrote: > > The clock on my K3 isn't terribly accurate either. But I've since learned > > how to deal with it. Pretty much every piece of electronics you buy these > > days has a clock in it. I've found absolutely zero correlation between the > > accuracy of the clocks and the overall quality or cost of the equipment. > > The worst clock here is in a $6K Agilent scope! > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I feel cheated! The 18,000 dollar Agilent scope I have on my bench doesn't have a clock in it... However the 60,000 dollar Agilent scope we just bought has windows on it and that syncs up over the net so that one remains fairly accurate... ;) ~Brett (N7MG) On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 18:05 -0600, Craig D. Smith wrote: > y accurate either. But I've since learned > how to deal with it. Pretty much every piece of electronics you buy > these > days has a clock in it. I've found absolutely zero correlation > between the > accuracy of the clocks and the overall quality or cost of the > equipment. > The worst clock here is in a $6K Agilent scope! > > Here's how to get around it - ignore the clocks! I don't even bother > setting them or changing for DST, etc. The only two clocks I use in > the > shack are the wall-mounted radio controlled clock and the > computer/logging > clock which both adjust automatically and are plenty accurate for > me ;>) > > 73 Craig AC0DS > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Phil, Interesting that you should mention "railroad accuracy". My father worked for the P&LE railroad based out of Pittsburgh. PA. When he hired on, he was required to buy a pocket watch - an approved type from an approved jewelery store in Pittsburgh, PA, the railroad provided a "payment plan" Sorry, but I cannot remember the brand nor the model watch - of course, that was back in the early 1940s - I don't know what the rules are today. 73, Don W3FPR Phil Kane wrote: > "Railroad accuracy" is 30 seconds per month, resettable when it gets > That far out. > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that purpose. Dave ww2r Message: 46 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:32:45 + From: The Smiths Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy To: , Cc: Elecraft Reflector Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When did 2 second a month, or even 4 minutes in 4 months make a due or die situation people.. It's a clock guy... reset it if it's wrong. This is ham radio people, not NASA science...Okay, you're log is off by 2 seconds... How far off do you think the other guy your talking to has his clock off.. My guess is it doesn't match yours no matter how accurate you have it in the K3. Are we done yet? I belive Wayne already told you how to adjust it. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would want to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that degree of accuracy. The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log entry by 30 seconds, does anyone care? 73, Don W3FPR Dave wrote: > Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second > accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that > purpose. > > Dave > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Couldn't agree more. I can't imagine chopping my k3 to fiddle with the accuracy of the clock. It's mind bogglingly insane that anyone would even consider doing that. Not that I don't accept that insanity is rampant (or at least that common sense is an old fashioned concept). For goodness sake, people -- BUY A TIMEPIECE! Grant/NQ5T On Jun 24, 2010, at 7:05 PM, Craig D. Smith wrote: > > Here's how to get around it - ignore the clocks! I don't even bother > setting them or changing for DST, etc. The only two clocks I use in the > shack are the wall-mounted radio controlled clock and the computer/logging > clock which both adjust automatically and are plenty accurate for me ;>) > > 73 Craig AC0DS > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Time accuracy is important to me as a personal matter. All the timepieces I depend on are calibration-linked -- my watch (WWVB), my computers (NTP), my cellphones, GPS, etc I also have a bunch of free-running clocks around the house, of course, but my watch is always accurate to within a few milliseconds, so that's what I look at when I want to know what time it is. I think this is really a philosophical and indeed a somewhat emotional issue. The K3 is arguably the ultimate radio you can get right now, but it has this feature (the RTC) that admittedly doesn't do a very good job of, well, doing its job. Should anybody really care? No, probably not. Your computer clock is the one you really need to be dead-on accurate for ham radio purposes -- at least until such time as the K3 comes with built-in (no computer needed) WSJT modes (which, in conjunction with the P3, might actually be doable). But I can also see the point of view that says: if you're going to go to the trouble of designing a RTC into a high-end radio, at least make it a high-end RTC, capable of keeping itself accurate using WWV, WWVH, WWVB, or some other method. Or else don't include it. In my opinion, an inaccurate RTC is simply worthless. It's a waste of CPU cycles. But the reality is, it's there, and making it accurate after the fact would not be trivial. IMO this is not a worthwile use of Elecraft's limited R&D resources. Bill W5WVO -- From: "Grant Youngman" Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:22 PM To: "Elecraft Email" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy > Couldn't agree more. I can't imagine chopping my k3 to fiddle with the > accuracy of the clock. It's mind bogglingly insane that anyone would even > consider doing that. Not that I don't accept that insanity is rampant (or > at least that common sense is an old fashioned concept). For goodness > sake, people -- BUY A TIMEPIECE! > > Grant/NQ5T > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 7:05 PM, Craig D. Smith wrote: > >> >> Here's how to get around it - ignore the clocks! I don't even bother >> setting them or changing for DST, etc. The only two clocks I use in the >> shack are the wall-mounted radio controlled clock and the >> computer/logging >> clock which both adjust automatically and are plenty accurate for me ;>) >> >> 73 Craig AC0DS >> >> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I prefer that my K3 know what frequency it is on more than what time it is. On 6/24/2010 8:52 PM, Dave wrote: > Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second > accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that > purpose. > > Dave > > ww2r > > > > Message: 46 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:32:45 +0000 > From: The Smiths > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy > To:, > Cc: Elecraft Reflector > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > When did 2 second a month, or even 4 minutes in 4 months make a due or die > situation people.. It's a clock guy... reset it if it's wrong. > > This is ham radio people, not NASA science...Okay, you're log is off by 2 > seconds... How far off do you think the other guy your talking to has his > clock off.. My guess is it doesn't match yours no matter how accurate you > have it in the K3. Are we done yet? I belive Wayne already told you how to > adjust it. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
i used to use the windows XCP "sync by internet to NIST time" function but after having my computer clock set 14 seconds and 17 seconds off utc i ALWAYS double check and independant source...the k3 is the most convenient Dave -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:15 PM To: Dave Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would want to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that degree of accuracy. The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log entry by 30 seconds, does anyone care? 73, Don W3FPR Dave wrote: > Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second > accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that > purpose. > > Dave > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
You know, I always thought that the Elecraft K3 was and will always be an Amateur Radio Transceiver. That it has a clock in it is a bonus, that it is as accurate as it is is also a bonus. It seems to me that some of the more anally retentive of us in here want it to be a clock with an Amateur Radio Transceiver installed. For gods sake, get over it Its an Amateur Radio Transceiver (And a damned good one at that!). If you want an accurate clock so bad go and buy a cesium standard and set it up. (Or use a Silicon chip magazine kit that can lock almost any clock to a GPS signal.) No, can we PLEASE go back to our normal programming??? Jeff Cochrane VK4BOF Innisfail QLD Australia Elecraft K3 #4257 - Original Message - From: Dave To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Cc: d...@w3fpr.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy i used to use the windows XCP "sync by internet to NIST time" function but after having my computer clock set 14 seconds and 17 seconds off utc i ALWAYS double check and independant source...the k3 is the most convenient Dave -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:15 PM To: Dave Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would want to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that degree of accuracy. The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log entry by 30 seconds, does anyone care? 73, Don W3FPR Dave wrote: > Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second > accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that > purpose. > > Dave > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Over here, I don't think the new rail companies know what a clock or a watch is! I must be lucky, my clock has only lost 5 minutes in 5 months. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- The lame man who keeps the right road outstrips the runner who takes a wrong one. The more active and swift the latter is, the further he will go astray. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) On 25 Jun 2010, at 02:40, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Interesting that you should mention "railroad accuracy". > My father worked for the P&LE railroad based out of Pittsburgh. PA. > When he hired on, he was required to buy a pocket watch - an approved > type from an approved jewelery store in Pittsburgh, PA, the railroad > provided a "payment plan" Sorry, but I cannot remember the brand nor the > model watch - of course, that was back in the early 1940s - I don't > know what the rules are today. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Not that I'm complaining about the clock or criticising those that want more accuracy, but there was a time, a long time ago, when people didn't have clocks or watches, and even when they got clocks, they were very inaccurate - the first clocks didn't have minute hands! I kinda think they were probably less hurried, more relaxed days. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Don't say you don't have enough time. You have exactly the same number of hours per day that were given to Helen Keller, Pasteur, Michaelangelo, Mother Teresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Albert Einstein. -H. Jackson Brown, Jr., writer __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I apologize if it is inappropriate, but I am getting REALLY confused.
1 minute off in a month. It is 15 seconds off in a week. Let's say it
takes TWO minutes to correct it (maybe an overstatement, but still...)
Now, do you really mind spending extra TWO MINUTES correcting the
embedded clock than spending TWO MINUTES actually talking or listening
to somebody? Or do I miss something in this discussion?
I would GUESS that this is all about wrong expectation - instead of
treating embedded watch as a convenience some people come to
conclusion that since K3 as a TRANSCEIVER is a precision instrument it
must be just as accurate in all its other functions (embedded watch
should be accurate to millisecond, output watt-meter should be
accurate to milliwatt, or power source voltage should be accurate to
millivolt). Well, it is not and it should not. It is merely an
instrument for our hobbies, and it is better to define its quality by
its PRIMARY function than put it down because its secondary function
is not up to par.
Oh, and for the person who said he likes to compare his computer clock
to his K3. I'd suggest revisiting the whole idea of comparing
"untrusted" time source with "independent" time source. What makes you
think that "independent" is any better than "untrusted"? If you have
two watches, one is 30 MINUTES BEHIND correct time and another is 30
MINUTES AHEAD correct time, does it really tell you anything if you
compare those two? (I mean "anything" besides of that you can't trust
either one?) Comparing untrusted watch with the one you TRUST is fine,
but comparing it with the one you KNOW to be not precise but WISHING
to be precise is, pretty much, wishful thinking, at best.
In any case, can we stop trashing K{2|3} clock here? It servers its
purpose, after all. It is not perfect, it is not as stable as primary
frequency, but does it really matter? This is the tranceiver, after
all, not an atomic clock. I am afraid than next thing people will
complain about would be instability caused by side effects of
relativity theory after they travel around the globe several times.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:42 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF
wrote:
> Over here, I don't think the new rail companies know what a clock or a watch
> is!
>
> I must be lucky, my clock has only lost 5 minutes in 5 months.
>
> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174
--
Alexey Kats (neko)
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Thank you, David, you managed to summarize what I was trying to say in one single (although long) sentence. My apologies to the reflector audience, I should have thought about eloquence before I posted my version of the "oh, come on" response. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:47 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > Not that I'm complaining about the clock or criticising those that want more > accuracy, but there was a time, a long time ago, when people didn't have > clocks or watches, and even when they got clocks, they were very inaccurate - > the first clocks didn't have minute hands! > > I kinda think they were probably less hurried, more relaxed days. > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 > -- > Don't say you don't have enough time. You have exactly the same number of > hours per day that were given to Helen Keller, Pasteur, Michaelangelo, > Mother Teresa, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Albert Einstein. > -H. Jackson Brown, Jr., writer > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Alexey Kats (neko) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
You miss something :-) I'm not complaining about my clock, I think it is just fine, I only use it in the field and like Don, I sync it before I go out - either via the utility or via some other timepiece. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? On 25 Jun 2010, at 09:12, Alexey Kats wrote: > I apologize if it is inappropriate, but I am getting REALLY confused. > > 1 minute off in a month. It is 15 seconds off in a week. Let's say it > takes TWO minutes to correct it (maybe an overstatement, but still...) > Now, do you really mind spending extra TWO MINUTES correcting the > embedded clock than spending TWO MINUTES actually talking or listening > to somebody? Or do I miss something in this discussion? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Ouch! My apologies, I was responding to the whole trend of negative feelings toward K3 (and K2) clock counter. I did not mean to make it sound like I was responding to your complaints (I don't even recall if you DID complain about anything). On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:27 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > You miss something :-) > > I'm not complaining about my clock, I think it is just fine, I only use it in > the field and like Don, I sync it before I go out - either via the utility or > via some other timepiece. > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 > -- > In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you > don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't > find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. > Is Common Sense divine? -- Alexey Kats (neko) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
No need to apologise and I'm sorry, I guessed you were questioning me since it was my post attached. I took no offence and intended none. My post wasn't supposed to be a criticism of your post, of my post etc. Lets all lighten up here folks, time is to short (sorry, couldn't resist it :-) There are those that care about the accuracy of the K3 clock and those that don't. Either way, their opinion should be respected and insight gleamed in what ever way one can from their posts. I for one enjoy reading the odd thread that goes on a bit, a light relief from some of the heavier topics. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure, find that they very rarely lose or fail. On 25 Jun 2010, at 09:32, Alexey Kats wrote: > Ouch! My apologies, I was responding to the whole trend of negative > feelings toward K3 (and K2) clock counter. I did not mean to make it > sound like I was responding to your complaints (I don't even recall if > you DID complain about anything). > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:27 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF > wrote: >> You miss something :-) >> >> I'm not complaining about my clock, I think it is just fine, I only use it >> in the field and like Don, I sync it before I go out - either via the >> utility or via some other timepiece. >> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 >> -- >> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you >> don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you >> can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common >> Sense. Is Common Sense divine? > > > > -- > Alexey Kats (neko) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Agreed about the clock. It's hard to imagine any logging software that can't do a time sync with a NIST server, unless you're in the boonies. My wristwatch claims to sync with WWV nightly. I'm not sure what leeway LoTW (or some contests) allows for matching but it might be as tight as 30 seconds. 73, Mike NF4L Don Wilhelm wrote: > But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be > easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would want > to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that degree of > accuracy. > > The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience > when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever > intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log entry > by 30 seconds, does anyone care? > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Dave wrote: > >> Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 second >> accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 clock for that >> purpose. >> >> Dave >> >> >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I'm taking my K3 to field day in the morning. Tonight I will run the utility and sync the time. It will be a clock in a convenient place for FD, that can't get knocked off the card table 10 times. Doing just what it was intended to do. It will be just fine. On the wall here at home I have a clock with big numbers that automatically syncs itself to the 60 kHz WWV signal. I PAID for that on purpose. I expect that one to stay within the second. I paid for something to stay within the second. Not interested in paying for that in a K3. Anyone who wants to come up with an accuracy mod, go right ahead. Your time. Your expense. Then you can see how many are interested. I continue to vote for Wayne keeping a very practical bent in his business. Upgrades need to have broad appeal within our tiny, tiny ham radio niche. More money spent than money taken in means no Elecraft. Then you get to have the responsiveness of Yakencom, permanently. Get Yakencom to fix something or have any vision. They're telling you with their past performance how much money is in ham radio, what the limits of profitability are. They DO know how much money they are making. Figuring them out is what helps one to know how exceptional Elecraft is, and what we have to lose. 73, Guy. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:02 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > No need to apologise and I'm sorry, I guessed you were questioning me since > it was my post attached. > I took no offence and intended none. My post wasn't supposed to be a > criticism of your post, of my post etc. > Lets all lighten up here folks, time is to short (sorry, couldn't resist it > :-) > > There are those that care about the accuracy of the K3 clock and those that > don't. Either way, their opinion should be respected and insight gleamed in > what ever way one can from their posts. > I for one enjoy reading the odd thread that goes on a bit, a light relief > from some of the heavier topics. > > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 > > -- > Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure, > find that they very rarely lose or fail. > > > > On 25 Jun 2010, at 09:32, Alexey Kats wrote: > >> Ouch! My apologies, I was responding to the whole trend of negative >> feelings toward K3 (and K2) clock counter. I did not mean to make it >> sound like I was responding to your complaints (I don't even recall if >> you DID complain about anything). >> >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:27 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF >> wrote: >>> You miss something :-) >>> >>> I'm not complaining about my clock, I think it is just fine, I only use it >>> in the field and like Don, I sync it before I go out - either via the >>> utility or via some other timepiece. >>> 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 >>> -- >>> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you >>> don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you >>> can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common >>> Sense. Is Common Sense divine? >> >> >> >> -- >> Alexey Kats (neko) > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Mike wrote: > Agreed about the clock. It's hard to imagine any logging software that > can't do a time sync with a NIST server, unless you're in the boonies. > My wristwatch claims to sync with WWV nightly. > I'm not sure what leeway LoTW (or some contests) allows for matching but > it might be as tight as 30 seconds. > > 73, Mike NF4L > > Try 30 minutes for LOTW. If you are within 30 mins the QSO is ok. https://p1k.arrl.org/lotw/faq 73 Merv KH7C / K9FD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Yes, but their radios were just boat anchors. 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Jun 25, 2010, at 12:47 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > Not that I'm complaining about the clock or criticising those that > want more accuracy, but there was a time, a long time ago, when > people didn't have clocks or watches, and even when they got clocks, > they were very inaccurate - the first clocks didn't have minute hands! > > I kinda think they were probably less hurried, more relaxed days. > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Remember what the old wise man said, " Man with a watch, knows what time it is, man with two watches is never sure." Mel 'Nuf said --- On Fri, 6/25/10, Rick Dettinger wrote: From: Rick Dettinger Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy To: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" Cc: "Elecraft Email" Date: Friday, June 25, 2010, 9:10 AM Yes, but their radios were just boat anchors. 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Jun 25, 2010, at 12:47 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > Not that I'm complaining about the clock or criticising those that > want more accuracy, but there was a time, a long time ago, when > people didn't have clocks or watches, and even when they got clocks, > they were very inaccurate - the first clocks didn't have minute hands! > > I kinda think they were probably less hurried, more relaxed days. > 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS IT'S TIME TO QUIT!! ENUF ALREADY! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Hello A suggestion for Wayne/Eric : 1) a CAT command to update the clock so that third party software can update constantly at least once at each seession. 2) a MENU to correct time error 73, Laurent F6DEX -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5224853.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
CAT commands have always been available that can be used to set the K3 Date and Time. This is how the K3 Utility sets the date and time to match the PC clock. Dick, K6KR Sent from my iPhone On Jun 26, 2010, at 1:44 AM, Laurent F6DEX wrote: > > Hello > > A suggestion for Wayne/Eric : > > 1) a CAT command to update the clock so that third party software can update > constantly at least once at each seession. > > 2) a MENU to correct time error > > 73, Laurent F6DEX > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5224853.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Dick Can you tell me what CAT command is available to set date/time . I don't see it documented in the programming manual. 73, Laurent -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5227456.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
It is a series of K3 commands. The K3 utility emulates what you would do from the front panel. The commands used are SWT to tap various switches, MNxxx to open the config:time menu, DS to read the VFO A display, and UP and DN to change the hours, minutes, and seconds to match your time source. 73 de Dick. K6KR Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2010, at 2:53 AM, Laurent F6DEX wrote: > > Dick > > Can you tell me what CAT command is available to set date/time . I don't see > it documented in the programming manual. > > 73, Laurent > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5227456.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Dick Thank you. This is the way the K3 utility sets up the clock and I never noticed since it is very fast. I will emulate same commands. Laurent F6DEX -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5228198.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I consulted the data sheet for the clock circuit PCF8563T (U16 in the K3 circuit diagram ) You can adjust the average deviation over one year to less than +- 5 minutes. Adjustment of one capacitior (C60) is required though. http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/PCF8563_6.pdf Jan -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5229930.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. Dave AB7E On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing. Remember, it's only a hobby. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. Good luck Scott AD6YT On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert wrote: I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why. 73, Dave AB7E On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP reference implementation, currently owned by the University of Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. The reference version means the version used to verify the implementability of the specification in the RFC document. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it. Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used http://www.timesynctool.com/ with the same result. I found it far easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote: My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I use the same tool as Jim Brown. Nettime (from timesynctool.com) works really well, and can be polled anytime to make sure the time is as close as possible. Gwen, NG3P On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 4:24 PM Jim Brown wrote: > Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature > and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my > Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has > drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it. > > Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used > http://www.timesynctool.com/ with the same result. I found it far > easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to > incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of > internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's > > unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I > > couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for > > contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better > > for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two > > tenths of a second of everyone else. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com -- -+-+-+-+- Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time http://quarktime.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else or ending it two minutes later. John KK9A - W4AAA David Gilbert AB7E wrote: My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
And you believe everyone else follows all the rules? Two minutes early and stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP. Get your head out of the sand. There is no honor among thieves. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2019, at 9:29 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: > > I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else or > ending it two minutes later. > > John KK9A - W4AAA > > > > David Gilbert AB7E wrote: > > > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's > unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I > couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for > contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better > for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two > tenths of a second of everyone else. > > Dave AB7E > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I don't know Meinberg, but I use Dimension 4. It starts when my computer boots. From pressing the On switch to full operation is about 1 minute, and the computer time is set within 0.1 second. Anybody can do the same, no problem. Tony KT0NY T T __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
On 10/19/2019 7:42 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: Two minutes early and stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP. Get your head out of the sand. There is no honor among thieves. Timing errors like this would be exposed by log checking. I'm a member of one of the largest US contest clubs, and I've visited many of the bigger stations. Power cheating is NOT what WE do. It is, however, widely believed that there is significant power cheating in some countries. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs? Randy, NB7E Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's > unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't > care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for > FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. > Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of > everyone else. > > Dave AB7E > > >> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed >> or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to >> maintain microsecond timing. >> >> Remember, it's only a hobby. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: >>> >>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see >>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just >>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of >>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. >>> >>> Good luck >>> >>> Scott >>> AD6YT >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert >>> wrote: >>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why. 73, Dave AB7E > On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: > There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer > every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an > installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP > reference implementation, currently owned by the University of > Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. > > The reference version means the version used to verify the > implementability of the specification in the RFC document. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net >>> >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ran...@greywolfstudios.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Macs have NTP time synchronization built in. They’ve had that since the early days of MacOS X, so more than fifteen years. Under the “Date & Time” panel in System Preferences, the “Set date and time automatically” checkbox enables NTP synchronization. wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > On Oct 19, 2019, at 8:50 PM, Randy Heise wrote: > > As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these > software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for > Macs? > > Randy, NB7E > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert wrote: >> >> >> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's >> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't >> care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for >> FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. >> Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of >> everyone else. >> >> Dave AB7E >> >> >>> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >>> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For >>> timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on >>> reason to maintain microsecond timing. >>> >>> Remember, it's only a hobby. >>> >>> Bob, K4TAX >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> > On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. Good luck Scott AD6YT On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert wrote: > I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some > reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few > minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why. > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > >> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: >> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer >> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an >> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP >> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of >> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. >> >> The reference version means the version used to verify the >> implementability of the specification in the RFC document. >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net >>> >>> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to ran...@greywolfstudios.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Does the Mac need one? How gar off is your clock? 73, Bill WE5P > > On Oct 19, 2019 at 23:50, Randy Heisewrote: > > > As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these > software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for > Macs? Randy, NB7E Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David > Gilbert wrote: > > > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about > 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to > sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for > contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for > best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a > second of everyone else. > > Dave AB7E > > >> On 10/19/2019 12:32 > PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is > relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems > adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing. >> >> Remember, > it's only a hobby. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: >>> >>> Typical NTP > implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see >>> if your > implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just >>> > suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of >>> > event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. >>> >>> Good luck >>> > >>> Scott >>> AD6YT >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David > Gilbert >>> wrote: >>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does > everything by itself. For some reason it just doesn't seem to do it on > startup ... it takes a few minutes before it kicks in. So far I > haven't figured out why. 73, Dave AB7E > > On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: > There is something > wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer > every time that you > boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an > installer; the actual > software installed is the open source NTP > reference implementation, > currently owned by the University of > Delaware, and developed under > the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. > > The reference version > means the version used to verify the > implementability of the > specification in the RFC document. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list Home: > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help > support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message > delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com >>> > __ >>> Elecraft > mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: > mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: > http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net > >>> >> >> > > > __ > Elecraft > mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: > mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: > http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > ran...@greywolfstudios.com > __ Elecraft > mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This > list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to weave...@usermail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
I was talking about logged QSO times. Pretty sure you know what's what I meant, so I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be cute. Dave AB7E On 10/19/2019 7:29 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else or ending it two minutes later. John KK9A - W4AAA David Gilbert AB7E wrote: My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to xda...@cis-broadband.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Wow, it mist be a poor propagation day.. Thread closed. Its volume is way out of control. Folks, please self moderate on your posts when there have been a lot of postings on a topic. Its not necessary to beat topics to death as this one has been. 73, Eric Moderator etc. elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Since I run mostly digital eme (JT65) my computer time accuracy needs are pretty strick (<1 second). For years I used dimension 4 and switched to BktTimeSync (from IZ2BKT) last four years to utilize GPS time using a cheap USB dongle GPS unit. BktTime can sync to NTP off the Internet or from a GPS. Or have both running. I run with NTP turned off and GPS Sync on startup so I do not need an Internet connection. I have another computer for Internet/e-mail/loggers, etc. Just booted the computer and got an update of 1.903000 seconds. Next sync shifted time -0.027000 seconds. I have it set for sync every ten minutes which keeps time within about 0.2 seconds which is more than adequate for synchronous digital modes (like JT65 or FT8). I do not use the clock in my K3 so rarely update it. Logging is manual using computer time. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Apologies to Eric who closed this thread, but getting Macs to work is on topic and generally not covered much on this list. Please tell me if I am off base and I'll try to clean up my act. The built in Mac time synch works very well. Since I sometimes operate where there is no Internet access, I am thrown back on the accuracy of the computer clock. I can get enough off that FT8 doesn't work any more. The solution is to fire up my phone as a hot spot, connect to it, and use the Date and Time panel to change the time provider away from North America and back. That gooses the software into doing a synch and then things are good again. I have never gotten manual setting of the time to work well enough for FT8. I would love a technique that worked well for when that rare DX is the one that is off. A QSO in both logs is more valuable than correct time. 73 Bill AE6JV On 10/19/19 at 11:50 PM, ran...@greywolfstudios.com (Randy Heise) wrote: As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs? --- Bill Frantz| When an old person dies, a | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | library burns. - Joe McGawon | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | Irish Ethnographer | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy
Most operating systems have NTP clients built in. Sure, there are a million clients out there (I use Tardis), and there are probably more that work under BSD-like UNIX (MacOS). The one built in to the OS is probably just fine. 73 -- Lynn On 10/19/2019 8:50 PM, Randy Heise wrote: As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs? Randy, NB7E Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert wrote: My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. Dave AB7E On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing. Remember, it's only a hobby. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. Good luck Scott AD6YT On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert wrote: I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why. 73, Dave AB7E On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP reference implementation, currently owned by the University of Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. The reference version means the version used to verify the implementability of the specification in the RFC document. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to scott.sm...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ran...@greywolfstudios.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock accuracy and JT-65
On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, John R. Lonigro wrote: > that accuracy is required in the computer doing the encoding/decoding, > not the radio > Correct. There are various automated schemes for making sure that the computer clock is accurate; some have been discussed on this forum in the past. With Windows 8 and later you can sync manually with government time standards by clicking on the time in the lower right of the taskbar and working through the menus. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock accuracy and JT-65
do NOT trust Windows to set time accurately (and only once a day too). They've mangled NTP so badly that it has a five minute accuracy window... if you want your computer to be accurate, replace the MS client with Meinburg. Mine stays within a few milliseconds now, easily close enough for ham tasks. Rick nhc On 8/29/2016 8:40 AM, Tony Estep wrote: On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 4:30 PM, John R. Lonigro wrote: that accuracy is required in the computer doing the encoding/decoding, not the radio Correct. There are various automated schemes for making sure that the computer clock is accurate; some have been discussed on this forum in the past. With Windows 8 and later you can sync manually with government time standards by clicking on the time in the lower right of the taskbar and working through the menus. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wa6...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock accuracy and JT-65
Hi all, I couldn't agree more. I have had Meinberg NTP on both my computers for a decade or more and it works perfectly. While I can't tell that it is ms accurate (I have no doubt that it is) but it is certainly totally synced to WWV as determined by the ear and eyes. Just Google it, install it and use it. What MS supplies with Windows is junk. AB2TC - Knut Rick WA6NHC-2 wrote > do NOT trust Windows to set time accurately (and only once a day too). > They've mangled NTP so badly that it has a five minute accuracy > window... if you want your computer to be accurate, replace the MS > client with Meinburg. Mine stays within a few milliseconds now, easily > close enough for ham tasks. > > Rick nhc > > -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-accuracy-and-JT-65-tp7621932p7621997.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
In case anyone is interested. I loaded Outlook 2010. What a wonderful piece of software. I sort by conversations. I went from multiple messages under the Clock topic to just a couple conversations and was able to two-click them away to the deleted folder. Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:46 AM To: d...@w3fpr.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy Agreed about the clock. It's hard to imagine any logging software that can't do a time sync with a NIST server, unless you're in the boonies. My wristwatch claims to sync with WWV nightly. I'm not sure what leeway LoTW (or some contests) allows for matching but it might be as tight as 30 seconds. 73, Mike NF4L Don Wilhelm wrote: > But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be > easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would > want to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that > degree of accuracy. > > The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience > when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever > intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log > entry by 30 seconds, does anyone care? > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Dave wrote: > >> Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 >> second accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 >> clock for that purpose. >> >> Dave >> >> >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
My K3 clock jis pretty darn accurate. It just told me it's 11PM and time for bed. Now that's practical. night All (Grin) Gary On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Bill K9YEQ wrote: > In case anyone is interested. I loaded Outlook 2010. What a wonderful > piece of software. I sort by conversations. I went from multiple messages > under the Clock topic to just a couple conversations and was able to > two-click them away to the deleted folder. > > Bill > K9YEQ > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:46 AM > To: d...@w3fpr.com > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy > > Agreed about the clock. It's hard to imagine any logging software that > can't > do a time sync with a NIST server, unless you're in the boonies. > My wristwatch claims to sync with WWV nightly. > I'm not sure what leeway LoTW (or some contests) allows for matching but it > might be as tight as 30 seconds. > > 73, Mike NF4L > > Don Wilhelm wrote: > > But those modes are computer generated, and the computer clock can be > > easily sync'ed with a NIST standard. I don't know why anyone would > > want to use a free-running clock for anything that requires that > > degree of accuracy. > > > > The RTC in the K2 or the K3 is intended only for a logging convenience > > when no other timepiece is available. I cannot believe it was ever > > intended to be a precision clock standard. If you err in your log > > entry by 30 seconds, does anyone care? > > > > 73, > > Don W3FPR > > > > Dave wrote: > > > >> Some digital (HF) modes require transmissions timed to start within 1 > >> second accuracy. I learnt a long time ago not to use the internal K3 > >> clock for that purpose. > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
You can do the same with Outlook 2007, which I use, and maybe even Outlook 2003. Back to clocks(!), I've used computer logging since the DOS DXbase in the early 1990s and now DXLab and have an "Atomic Clock" synced to WWVB on the wall. My computer syncs with NIST every week or more often if I want to do it manually. For me the K3 clock is nice but I forget it's there. Jim N7US -Original Message- In case anyone is interested. I loaded Outlook 2010. What a wonderful piece of software. I sort by conversations. I went from multiple messages under the Clock topic to just a couple conversations and was able to two-click them away to the deleted folder. Bill K9YEQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
Unbelievable... 73 Jeff kb2m -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim McDonald Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:39 AM To: 'Elecraft' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion You can do the same with Outlook 2007, which I use, and maybe even Outlook 2003. Back to clocks(!), I've used computer logging since the DOS DXbase in the early 1990s and now DXLab and have an "Atomic Clock" synced to WWVB on the wall. My computer syncs with NIST every week or more often if I want to do it manually. For me the K3 clock is nice but I forget it's there. Jim N7US -Original Message- In case anyone is interested. I loaded Outlook 2010. What a wonderful piece of software. I sort by conversations. I went from multiple messages under the Clock topic to just a couple conversations and was able to two-click them away to the deleted folder. Bill K9YEQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
Maybe we've had enough postings about the clock :) Thanks, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
Wayne is correct. It's "time" for a change. Terry, W0FM -Original Message- From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:n...@elecraft.com] Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:39 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion Maybe we've had enough postings about the clock :) Thanks, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy (the moral of the story)
"...unwilling to pay even $1 for an accurate clock in the K3" I bought a Citizen ECO drive watch a few months ago. I liked it because it was solar powered and had a clean face. About once a month I might check it with my internet-updated laptop computer clock. I paid about $175 at Costco for this watch. But, the mere idea of spending extra for a clock on a radio is silly unless that is a clock for my old Hammarlund HQ-170A. My original HQ-170AC had a clock but I got rid of that in 1967. The one I picked up at a ham fest a few years go did not have a clock -- just an empty but covered spot on the front panel that begs the need for a clock face. I still have this background activity of hunting down a clock for my HQ-170A. Do I need it. No. In fact, the HQ-170A is in my storage garage so it might be considered really lame to spend money on a clock for a radio in storage. A K3 is not like that. I don't even do the menu selection to display the clock on my K3. If I need to know the time, I have at least three clocks in the room: an analog wall clock, the time on my laptop, and the time on my wrist watch. There is no big empty spot on the front panel of a K3 where a clock is supposed to go. There must have been a time in the past where a clock on a radio was important. Maybe. That time is certainly not today. Therefore, Tom, as usual, has the right answer --- unwilling to pay even a $1 for [any kind of clock] in the K3. 73, phil, K7PEH P.S. If anyone has a clock for an HQ-170A that they would like to sell, let me know. I might go as high as $25 for such a clock. After all, I will be spending about $25 on a bottle of wine to take over to friend's house for dinner tonight. Certainly, a clock is worth the same. The wine: Earthquake Zinfandel. On Jun 25, 2010, at 4:13 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: > > > Myself, I would be unwilling to pay even $1 > more to have an accurate clock in the K3. > > 73 Tom > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy (the moral of the story)
I haven't read all the responses to this thread but maybe it could be turned off by a menu item, in case someone didn't want it take up cpu cycles. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5223247.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
Unsubscribe In a message dated 6/25/2010 11:39:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, n...@elecraft.com writes: Maybe we've had enough postings about the clock :) Thanks, Wayne N6KR __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy and Outlook 2010 conversation deletion
D for Delete works better than R for ReadGrin Woiks fer me Gary On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:31 AM, wrote: > > Unsubscribe > > > In a message dated 6/25/2010 11:39:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > n...@elecraft.com writes: > > Maybe we've had enough postings about the clock :) > > Thanks, > > Wayne > N6KR > > __ > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Clock Accuracy (the moral of the story)
Just to add a note of ? something to this thread You are all correct that the clock is a really meaningless addition to the K3 and in no way would I want any of the Elecraft gang wasting a minute on it.. I just find it an interesting little exercise to see if it could be made more accurate - for fun only - and only when I have another reason to open it up. I DON'T use the K3 clock - like most of you I have the darn things everywhere and the computer is synced to a time standard... it is just a tiny niggling thing that would be nice to be better (on MY own time and effort) I am extraordinarily pleased with my radio AND more importantly the excellent response from K3 - I was most impressed to have a tech answer from Wayne himself within minutes as to a 'homebrew' possible adjustment. Cheers to all 73 John VE3NFK -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Clock-Accuracy-tp5218803p5224010.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
