Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
I can share my recent experience in the ARRL CW DX contest. I have a K2/100 with no additional filtering (i.e., no KAF2 or KDSP2). I had the variable bandwidth crystal filter set to 1000 Hz, 500 Hz, 300 Hz, and 150 Hz. I ran most of the contest set to 150 Hz. There were a few times when I felt like additional filtering would have been a "nice to have". There were no times when I felt like it was a "gotta have". And that was also my experience in the CQ WW last November (running 10 watts pre-KPA100!). I'm probably going to build the AF1 external audio filter later this year. I'm sure it will be handy, but I'd do it mostly for the pleasure of building another mini-module! Cheers - Bruce - Bruce Rosen K1FFX k2/100 6982 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K2-Kit-Questions-tp6002462p6078821.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil Others opinions may vary, but here is my experience - a K2 works well without DSP. Yes you already likely heard a base K2 is all analog. But note that is has this feature - the xtal filter bandwidth is programmable. I literally have mine set up for 700, 400, 250 and 100 Hz bandwidth. After getting these selectable filters well centered - it acts a lot like using a DSP filter - and I find it provides enough settings for CW. The filter shapes are not quite as sharp as DSP, but still pretty good. Also with no DSP, the audio is pleasant to listen to. In my opinion, the rig works great with no DSP. I also have the SSB filters set to vary from 1.6 kHz upward. They also work pretty well. Here a DSP filter could help with adjacent frequency interference by being sharper. If you are planning on all CW, or even mostly CW, I suggest you can do well without the DSP. For many years my K2 was only equipped with 160m and SSB options. I do use a NESCAF external audio filter for pulling weak signals out on 160 and 80m. It has a potentiometer for BW adjustment - which you might prefer over the internal fixed settings. But I have this feeling you might be thrilled enough with using your K3 at QRP levels, so you'll have to weigh do you really need this other rig in the shack, or for travel when you have a KX1. You could diversify your 'build' portfolio by doing something homebrew and/or another QRP project (hint check Az Scorpions and FourState for ideas). 73 Curt Gang, So, I am thinking that another kit is in my future. I have a K3 and a KX1 and I am thinking about the K2. I would be using it for CW and QRP or 2*QRP only. So, I wouldn't plan on getting the SSB option and I am not planning on the 100 watt PA or the ATU. But, I do have questions about filters (remember, CW usage only). 1. Question: is the radio a completely analog radio (no DSP) if you DO NOT buy the DSP filter option? 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the money? 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? Is the Audio filter still useful if I buy the DSP filter? Any other comments and suggestions are definitely accepted. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
On Feb 27, 2011, at 3:32 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Curious. Because I sent: On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:51 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: > 1. Question: is the radio a completely analog radio (no DSP) if you DO NOT > buy the DSP filter option? Yes. > 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the money? For SSB, I would say most definitely YES. > 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? Is the Audio filter still useful > if I buy the DSP filter? I did not find the KAF2 useful. The KDSP2 fits in the same place. You can have one or the other, but not both. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: aa...@arrl.net Web: http://boringhamradiopart.blogspot.com Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
A really wide setting is useful when scanning a "dead" CW band. Rather than tune very slowly, it tune at a moderate pace with a very wide setting. When the signal is weak, it's the changing tone as I tune that alerts me someone is "in there". Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Don, I still use a fairly wide filter (1 KHz to 1.5 KHz) on my K3 when I am hunting for CW signals or listening to broad activity. I have the P3 also that helps out a bit but I usually do not close down my filter until I establish contact and have narrowed down to the other operator. Then I will typically narrow down to about 350 Hz unless there is heavy activity causing QRM and then I will go even further. If I do my hunt activity with a narrow filter I sometimes go over stations without even hearing them at all. Although the P3 does help here, often there are stations that do not really register that high on the P3 to be easily visible with just a glance. I agree that 2.4 KHz is too wide for CW but then I am not that familiar with the filters that are available and I so I am not sure whether the SSB is necessary or not. I only pointed out that it was something that I had heard someone else doing. phil, K7PEH On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Phil, > > For me, that is an awfully wide filter for CW. I normally tune CW with a filter set to 700 Hz. a 2.4kHz wide filter hears a lot more of the band - too much for me. > > OTOH, there are some operators who like to use a wide filter to hear a lot of what is going on around their frequency. If you are in that class and have a good "filter between the ears", then by all means use it that way. > > I might point out one other disadvantage of using the wide filter for CW. If a strong signal is on the band say 1500 Hz away from the weaker signal you are trying to copy, your mind may be able to easily separate the two, but that strong signal is also activating the AGC and all signals in the passband will be reduced in strength because of it. That is why narrow "roofing filters" are offered for the K3 - even though the DSP can create a narrow filter, the hardware AGC is still responding to the strongest signal in the passband. The same argument applies to the K2. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 2/8/2011 10:39 AM, Phil Hystad wrote: >> A possible follow-up question --- one recommendation I received (indirectly out of band from this group) was that the SSB option was useful for the wider filter even if you do not plan to do SSB. I have yet to read through all of the K2 manual (my next project) so I don't know much about the filters on the K2 so far. >> >> 73, phil, K7PEH >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil, The K2 variable filter can be set for any width that you desire It is a 5 crystal Cohn filter whose design width is about 400 Hz. The CW filter width defaults are 1.50 kHz, 700 Hz, 400 Hz and 100 Hz, but there is no reason you have to stay with the defaults. There are 4 CW filter widths that can be chosen. There are also 4 widths for the SSB filter set and 4 for the RTTY filter set. The variable filter is pretty flat out to about 1.6 or 1.7 kHz, but then it begins to get a bit "ragged" - still it is quite usable for SSB reception, but I would not want to see a SSB signal transmitted through it - that is where the 2.4 kHz SSB filter on the KSB2 board comes in. It is a fixed width and has 7 crystals. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/8/2011 4:48 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: > Don, > > I still use a fairly wide filter (1 KHz to 1.5 KHz) on my K3 when I am > hunting for CW signals or listening to broad activity. I have the P3 also > that helps out a bit but I usually do not close down my filter until I > establish contact and have narrowed down to the other operator. Then I will > typically narrow down to about 350 Hz unless there is heavy activity causing > QRM and then I will go even further. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Don, I still use a fairly wide filter (1 KHz to 1.5 KHz) on my K3 when I am hunting for CW signals or listening to broad activity. I have the P3 also that helps out a bit but I usually do not close down my filter until I establish contact and have narrowed down to the other operator. Then I will typically narrow down to about 350 Hz unless there is heavy activity causing QRM and then I will go even further. If I do my hunt activity with a narrow filter I sometimes go over stations without even hearing them at all. Although the P3 does help here, often there are stations that do not really register that high on the P3 to be easily visible with just a glance. I agree that 2.4 KHz is too wide for CW but then I am not that familiar with the filters that are available and I so I am not sure whether the SSB is necessary or not. I only pointed out that it was something that I had heard someone else doing. phil, K7PEH On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Phil, > > For me, that is an awfully wide filter for CW. I normally tune CW with a > filter set to 700 Hz. a 2.4kHz wide filter hears a lot more of the band - > too much for me. > > OTOH, there are some operators who like to use a wide filter to hear a lot of > what is going on around their frequency. If you are in that class and have a > good "filter between the ears", then by all means use it that way. > > I might point out one other disadvantage of using the wide filter for CW. If > a strong signal is on the band say 1500 Hz away from the weaker signal you > are trying to copy, your mind may be able to easily separate the two, but > that strong signal is also activating the AGC and all signals in the passband > will be reduced in strength because of it. That is why narrow "roofing > filters" are offered for the K3 - even though the DSP can create a narrow > filter, the hardware AGC is still responding to the strongest signal in the > passband. The same argument applies to the K2. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 2/8/2011 10:39 AM, Phil Hystad wrote: >> A possible follow-up question --- one recommendation I received (indirectly >> out of band from this group) was that the SSB option was useful for the >> wider filter even if you do not plan to do SSB. I have yet to read through >> all of the K2 manual (my next project) so I don't know much about the >> filters on the K2 so far. >> >> 73, phil, K7PEH >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Hi Phil, I am exclusively a QRP CW guy. I put the KAF2 audio filter in my K2. It works great but I have only used it a couple of times. (I've had it for about 7 or 8 months.) The regular audio filter settings on the stock radio do a very good job for casual operating. The K2 is a lot of fun to build and operate. You will enjoy it. 73, Paul - N8XMS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil - I would definitely recommend considering the SSB option. As another person mentioned, you will need it if you are contemplating using one of the data modes. There is even the (remote) possibility you might want to use SSB at least occasionally . However, the beauty of the K2 is that you can add this option, and the K160 module, which I predict you will eventually want too, at some undefined later date. Therefore, you don't have to plop down all the cash at once, and building some modules later will help with the inevitable "why am I not soldering something today?" feeling that will come upon you once the K2 has been finished for a while. Good luck with the K2. - Jim,. KL7CC Phil Hystad wrote: > > Thanks for all the comments in answer to my question about the K2 Kit. > A possible follow-up question --- one recommendation I received (indirectly out of band from this group) was that the SSB option was useful for the wider filter even if you do not plan to do SSB. > 73, phil, K7PEH > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil, For me, that is an awfully wide filter for CW. I normally tune CW with a filter set to 700 Hz. a 2.4kHz wide filter hears a lot more of the band - too much for me. OTOH, there are some operators who like to use a wide filter to hear a lot of what is going on around their frequency. If you are in that class and have a good "filter between the ears", then by all means use it that way. I might point out one other disadvantage of using the wide filter for CW. If a strong signal is on the band say 1500 Hz away from the weaker signal you are trying to copy, your mind may be able to easily separate the two, but that strong signal is also activating the AGC and all signals in the passband will be reduced in strength because of it. That is why narrow "roofing filters" are offered for the K3 - even though the DSP can create a narrow filter, the hardware AGC is still responding to the strongest signal in the passband. The same argument applies to the K2. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/8/2011 10:39 AM, Phil Hystad wrote: > A possible follow-up question --- one recommendation I received (indirectly > out of band from this group) was that the SSB option was useful for the wider > filter even if you do not plan to do SSB. I have yet to read through all of > the K2 manual (my next project) so I don't know much about the filters on the > K2 so far. > > 73, phil, K7PEH > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Gang, Thanks for all the comments in answer to my question about the K2 Kit. As usual, this group is a real benefit to learning all about the Elecraft stuff. My K2 plans look like this: 1. Basic K2 Kit, QRP only. 2. Internal ATU. 3. KAF2 Audio Filter. 4. KIO2. I am in no rush to get the K2 as right now I don't have the time to put one together. But, it will be a Spring or Summer project. A possible follow-up question --- one recommendation I received (indirectly out of band from this group) was that the SSB option was useful for the wider filter even if you do not plan to do SSB. I have yet to read through all of the K2 manual (my next project) so I don't know much about the filters on the K2 so far. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil, I use the KDSP2 and generally like it very much. I set one of the DSP CW filter settings to 50Hz bandwidth and increase the filter gain. Seems to help for pulling weak ones out of the band noise under some conditions. I don't find the sound of signals processed through the DSP filters a problem. The noise reduction works, but requires experimentation with the settings to achieve results. I can understand why some find the NR sound to be a bit unusual but it is no worse than the audio DSP on my TS480. Jeff N7KRT --- On Mon, 2/7/11, Phil Hystad wrote: > From: Phil Hystad > Subject: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions > To: "Elecraft Reflector" > Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 4:51 PM > Gang, > > So, I am thinking that another kit is in my future. I > have a K3 and a KX1 and I am thinking about the K2. I > would be using it for CW and QRP or 2*QRP only. So, I > wouldn't plan on getting the SSB option and I am not > planning on the 100 watt PA or the ATU. > > But, I do have questions about filters (remember, CW usage > only). > > 1. Question: is the radio a completely analog > radio (no DSP) if you DO NOT buy the DSP filter option? > > 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the > money? > > 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? > Is the Audio filter still useful if I buy the DSP filter? > > Any other comments and suggestions are definitely > accepted. > > 73, phil, K7PEH > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Hi Phil, I would agree with those who prefer the KAF2 over the KDSP2, I have them both and have reinstalled the KAF2. All analogue antenna to ear. One or the other is a must have. I noticed a huge improvement in the reduction of high frequency hiss from the audio stage with the KAF2 installed, it has a low pass filter stage which is always inline. Regards, Mike VP8NO K2 #1400 K3 #345 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
On 7 Feb 2011 at 16:51, Phil Hystad wrote: > 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the money? > > 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? Is the Audio filter still > useful if I buy the DSP filter? > I am an exclusively CW op. I have the KAF2 fitted but it is never used. It may be useful for SSB ops, but for CW the CW 400Hz filter does everything you want - I have FL4 set to 200Hz but even that never gets used. I would endorse what others say, get the KAT2. If you intend to use it for contesting then the KIO2 is essential for rig control. The KAT160 is also very handy for giving you the two antenna option even if you don't use top band. 73 Dave G3YMC http://www.davesergeant.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Phil, The K2 RF stages are all analog. Any digital signals are for control purposes. The VFO is a PLL/VCO implementation. You will get varied opinions about the KDSP2 vs. the KAF2 for CW use. Some like the DSP, others prefer the KAF2, while others advocate that the variable width IF filter is sufficient. I am in the latter category - I have the KAF2 in mine but seldom use it. Since the KDSP2 and the KAF2 occupy the same physical space inside the K2, only one can be present at a time. If you are considering the use of digital modes, you will want to install the KSB2 even though you do not intend to operate SSB. If you are contemplating portable operation, you will want to include the KAT2 internal tuner. If you have any desires to connect the K2 to a rig control computer application (logger or something more exotic), you will want the KIO2. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/7/2011 7:51 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: > Gang, > > So, I am thinking that another kit is in my future. I have a K3 and a KX1 > and I am thinking about the K2. I would be using it for CW and QRP or 2*QRP > only. So, I wouldn't plan on getting the SSB option and I am not planning on > the 100 watt PA or the ATU. > > But, I do have questions about filters (remember, CW usage only). > > 1. Question: is the radio a completely analog radio (no DSP) if you DO NOT > buy the DSP filter option? > > 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the money? > > 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? Is the Audio filter still useful > if I buy the DSP filter? > > Any other comments and suggestions are definitely accepted. > > 73, phil, K7PEH > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K2 Kit Questions
Replies in-line - Jim, KL7CC Phil Hystad wrote: > Gang, > > So, I am thinking that another kit is in my future. I have a K3 and a KX1 > and I am thinking about the K2. I would be using it for CW and QRP or 2*QRP > only. So, I wouldn't plan on getting the SSB option and I am not planning on > the 100 watt PA or the ATU. > > But, I do have questions about filters (remember, CW usage only). > > 1. Question: is the radio a completely analog radio (no DSP) if you DO NOT > buy the DSP filter option? > Yes, if you do not purchase the DSP option. A substantial amount of "digital" is still used, but not directly in the signal path. The digital stuff is used to control the rig, set and operate the VFO, change bands, communicate between options, etc. > 2. Question: is the DSP filter worth the money? > This is a subjective issue. Some people like the DSP (I do), others prefer the simplicity of the audio filter (KAF2). I would recommend one or the other, but the rig runs fine without them. Depends on your operating style. For occasional use, the built in variable bandwidth filter may be enough. I really like the combination of the variable filter and DSP working together. > 3. Question: is the Audio filter useful? Is the Audio filter still useful > if I buy the DSP filter? > See above. Keep in mind that this is a choice of one or the other, not both. The K2 cannot accept both units at once. > Any other comments and suggestions are definitely accepted. > Buy the KAT2 internal tuner. You won't be sorry. It is astounding in it's ability to match pretty much anything, and will be very helpful if you decide to try "out in the field" operating with makeshift antennas. - Jim,m KL7CC > 73, phil, K7PEH > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
