Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Hello David, If a PSK signal is generated in an early stage of a transmitter (or is fed into an input of a transmitter), then all of the transmitter's stages which follow should be linear to keep the signal clean. In the case of the basic type of PSK 31.25 signal consisting of a single tone, whose phase is changed by 180 degrees, the change of phase results in sidebands spaced 31.25 kHz each side of the main signal. If the transmitter's stages which follow are not adequately linear, then IMD products could create splatter. In the case of solid state linear amplifiers, especially those using a 12 V DC supply, to prevent poor linearity it is necessary to use a DC supply and interconnecting cables/ connectors which do not allow the supply voltage to sag with increasing current draw. I note that you said that there is almost a difference of one volt between 25W and 100W key down. 73, Geoff LX2AO On May 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM, David Moes VE3DVY wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D I had the power dialed to 25W so I certainly wasn.t running to much power, and just to be sure that I was actually using PSK -d I had pulled the audio line in/out from the K3. Am I missing something? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Oooops :-( In my message to David Moes, I said: phase results in sidebands spaced 31.25 kHz each side of the main signal. If the transmitter's stages which follow are not adequately linear, then IMD products could create splatter. I meant 31.25 Hz not 31.25 kHz. 73, Geoff LX2AO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Thanks Geoff Understood. I have already shortened the leads quite a bit. and made a decent change in the voltage drop cant remember the difference. Last night I was also able to make some tests (before the lead length change) using the K3 into a dummy and the second reciever with a very short antenna and DIGIPAN My signal on PSK D looked great right up to full power. so I think I have everyting right and shouldn't have worried about what the other guy had said. The reason it had me going was that having worked PSK31 for many years using my old rig an then the K3 using DATA A I dont think Ive had any complaints for a long time. and on the first QSO I had with PSK-D someone complained. Murphy s law I guess. David Moes VE3DVY PS sorry that you are getting this twice Geoff initially I sent to wrong address I intended to post to the list On 5/31/2012 10:52 AM, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote: Hello David, If a PSK signal is generated in an early stage of a transmitter (or is fed into an input of a transmitter), then all of the transmitter's stages which follow should be linear to keep the signal clean. In the case of the basic type of PSK 31.25 signal consisting of a single tone, whose phase is changed by 180 degrees, the change of phase results in sidebands spaced 31.25 kHz each side of the main signal. If the transmitter's stages which follow are not adequately linear, then IMD products could create splatter. In the case of solid state linear amplifiers, especially those using a 12 V DC supply, to prevent poor linearity it is necessary to use a DC supply and interconnecting cables/ connectors which do not allow the supply voltage to sag with increasing current draw. I note that you said that there is almost a difference of one volt between 25W and 100W key down. 73, Geoff LX2AO On May 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM, David Moes VE3DVY wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D I had the power dialed to 25W so I certainly wasn.t running to much power, and just to be sure that I was actually using PSK -d I had pulled the audio line in/out from the K3. Am I missing something? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
The short answer is that splatter can be caused by just about anything between your keyboard and his audio out. Analyzing just one occurrence is nearly impossible. There is a lot of good verbiage in the archives about keeping your signal clean and maintaining a means for inspecting that yourself. The desired answer to the other station's report is I monitor that constantly, and my signal is clean leaving. What do you get when you monitor your own signal? Do you have something to do that, and do you know how to use it to get correct readings on yourself? Beyond that, even going through one amplifier means that IMD products will be down 35 dB for a well functioning amplifier. When your signal is S3 or S4, the IMD is way down. If the other guy was loud, then your primary signal, even at 25 watts, is likely s9 or maybe even 20 over. In that case even that -35 dB can sound like a local signal. If he's doing what so many people seem to do, run his preamp constantly on, RF gain max all the time, his RX, even a K3, can add 20 dB to the IMD on your signal, ESPECIALLY if using SSB filters for RX. But if you are not perfectly clear and measured about what you are transmitting, that argument won't go anywhere. Again, belaboring intentional, trick is to not have any questions about the signal you are transmitting. Even better you have graphics on it, and can send it to him in an email. 73, Guy. On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Last evening I was trying another aspect of my K3I often work PSK using AFSK but I thought Id give it a try using PSK-D using Kcomm I set everyting and it was decoding fine on the K3 display and in Kcomm.There was a strong station that was calling CQ so i gave him a call while having a good QSO he mentioned that I was splattering a bit and I should not drive as hard. rather than explaining that I wasnt using AFSK I just quickly said thanks Ill look into it and 73. Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D I had the power dialed to 25W so I certainly wasn.t running to much power, and just to be sure that I was actually using PSK -d I had pulled the audio line in/out from the K3. Am I missing something? I will be trying again hooking my other rig up to another computer so that I can monitor my output in Fldigi, just in case he was seeing issues at his end. David Moes VE3DVY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. 73, Jim Brown K9YC. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Right! He said he was going to set up an outside monitor to look at his signal. Perhaps when that's set up it would be interesting to compare the Kcomm generated text with just the K3 Utility. Don't know why it would make a difference but could be a starting place if it does. Rick K6LE On 5/30/2012, at 9:52 , iain macdonnell - N6ML a...@dseven.org wrote: You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
And you missed that Jim was talking about the RECEIVE station overdriving the sound card for decoding. ;-) Both sides need to have the correct settings before making judgments. Rick wa6nhc -Original Message- From: iain macdonnell - N6ML On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Maybe you ought to read Jim's post again. Sure looks like he's talking about the sound card out going into the radio 73, Ross N4RP On 5/30/2012 1:52 PM, Rick Bates wrote: And you missed that Jim was talking about the RECEIVE station overdriving the sound card for decoding. ;-) Both sides need to have the correct settings before making judgments. Rick wa6nhc -Original Message- From: iain macdonnell - N6ML On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Jim Brownj...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Hi Jim Thanksgood tips but Keep in mind I am using PSK-D where I am sending serial data to the K3 and letting it do the modulation. so there is no audio path from the PC into the K3. before I had the K3 using the sound card was my only option and even now when using AFSK to the K3 I dont believe I have an issue. It was just when I tried to let the K3 handle the modulation that I got this response and as others have pointed out it is very possible y that there is someting at his end. I was just wondering though if there was someting I can do to controll the IMD at the K3 when using PSK-D as opposed to PSK-A David Moes VE3DVY --- Original message --- Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, 30/05/2012 12:42 PM On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. 73, Jim Brown K9YC. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Just to add to my original question and this may come out when I test it using the other radioHow much power can you safely use with PSK-D. I don't like to use much power to start with but in rare occasion a little boost can help. just curios how much boost can I make. I will try the utility, Kcomm and keying with the paddles. but as you say there should be no difference. I wont get to it tonight but will try sometime in the next day or two. and report my findings. My only worry is can I attenuate enough to run the K3 to near full power and not swamp the Kenwood to much. probably a dummy load on both. David Moes VE3DVY On Wednesday 30/05/2012 at 1:49 pm, Rick Prather wrote: Right! He said he was going to set up an outside monitor to look at his signal. Perhaps when that's set up it would be interesting to compare the Kcomm generated text with just the K3 Utility. Don't know why it would make a difference but could be a starting place if it does. Rick K6LE On 5/30/2012, at 9:52 , iain macdonnell - N6ML a...@dseven.org wrote: You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
I use PSK - D with Kcomm or K3 utility all the time for rtty . Can you tell me what your indicated K3 voltage is on K3 screen? What is the indicated voltage on 25w key (cw constant keyed) on K3 screen? Do you have a Coilcraft DLFC15 filter in your rs232 line? Adrian ... vk4tux -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dm...@nexicom.net Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2012 11:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater Last evening I was trying another aspect of my K3I often work PSK using AFSK but I thought Id give it a try using PSK-D using Kcomm I set everyting and it was decoding fine on the K3 display and in Kcomm.There was a strong station that was calling CQ so i gave him a call while having a good QSO he mentioned that I was splattering a bit and I should not drive as hard. rather than explaining that I wasnt using AFSK I just quickly said thanks Ill look into it and 73. Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D I had the power dialed to 25W so I certainly wasn.t running to much power, and just to be sure that I was actually using PSK -d I had pulled the audio line in/out from the K3. Am I missing something? I will be trying again hooking my other rig up to another computer so that I can monitor my output in Fldigi, just in case he was seeing issues at his end. David Moes VE3DVY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Yes replace the pwr supply cable to a shorter heavier version used with a 15v stiff supply. 100w key tx K3 screen indicated volt drop should not exceed 0.4v .Supply cable needs to be short and thicker. Fit a Coilcraft DLFC15 filter in your rs232 line. Adrian ... vk4tux -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dm...@nexicom.net Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2012 5:18 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater Hi Jim Thanksgood tips but Keep in mind I am using PSK-D where I am sending serial data to the K3 and letting it do the modulation. so there is no audio path from the PC into the K3. before I had the K3 using the sound card was my only option and even now when using AFSK to the K3 I dont believe I have an issue. It was just when I tried to let the K3 handle the modulation that I got this response and as others have pointed out it is very possible y that there is someting at his end. I was just wondering though if there was someting I can do to controll the IMD at the K3 when using PSK-D as opposed to PSK-A David Moes VE3DVY --- Original message --- Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, 30/05/2012 12:42 PM On 5/30/2012 6:13 AM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Question, What can cause splatter when using PSK-D Splatter is simply distortion. Anything in the audio chain can cause splatter, from the computer to the audio section of the K3. Many (most?) computer sound cards will create distortion if turned up too high, and turning it up too high can also cause the input of the radio to create distortion. You can hook a scope to the output of the sound card and watch it for clipping of the sine wave as you adjust the gain (on the Windows PLAYBACK mixer). Turn the gain up until it you just begin to see clipping, or until the signal stops getting stronger, then reduce the gain until the voltage drops to one half of that value (that is, the trace is half as tall). If you don't have a scope, LISTEN to the sound card with headphones and make the same adjustment. What you're listening for is any harshness that appears when you turn it up, and when you hear it, reduce the gain until it sounds half as loud. Now you're ready to adjust the Line Input gain of the K3 according to the K3 manual. 73, Jim Brown K9YC. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
100w, no problem and clean including driving a good amp. Sell the Kenwood and get another K3 that will handle it :) -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dm...@nexicom.net Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2012 5:26 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater Just to add to my original question and this may come out when I test it using the other radioHow much power can you safely use with PSK-D. I don't like to use much power to start with but in rare occasion a little boost can help. just curios how much boost can I make. I will try the utility, Kcomm and keying with the paddles. but as you say there should be no difference. I wont get to it tonight but will try sometime in the next day or two. and report my findings. My only worry is can I attenuate enough to run the K3 to near full power and not swamp the Kenwood to much. probably a dummy load on both. David Moes VE3DVY On Wednesday 30/05/2012 at 1:49 pm, Rick Prather wrote: Right! He said he was going to set up an outside monitor to look at his signal. Perhaps when that's set up it would be interesting to compare the Kcomm generated text with just the K3 Utility. Don't know why it would make a difference but could be a starting place if it does. Rick K6LE On 5/30/2012, at 9:52 , iain macdonnell - N6ML a...@dseven.org wrote: You missed the point - he's not using an external audio feed to the K3. I've never used Kcomm, but if it operates in PSK D mode, it must be sending commands, with text, to the K3, and the K3 does all of the modulation. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
On 5/30/2012 10:52 AM, Rick Bates wrote: And you missed that Jim was talking about the RECEIVE station overdriving the sound card for decoding.;-) No, Iain read my response correctly, but I didn't get the question. I answered the wrong question -- was talking about the computer sound card generating the digital signal. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
I'm sorry, David, but am confused about what you are doing. You state that I often work PSK using AFSK How do you do this? Are you running RTTY with AFSK or FSK D? Or, maybe PSK 31 using PSK D or soundcard DATA A? My K3 has 4 data modes. FSK (Hardware shifted freq for RTTY) or AFSK which uses a sound card. The other two are PSK D which is created entirely within the K3 or it's sound card version DATA A. Both of the D or direct modes can be used with paddles on the K3 to send and receive while decoding is done in the K3. They can also be used with the K3 Utility and some other software that sends text over the serial cable, I believe. Please explain ...bill nr4c Subject: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater Last evening I was trying another aspect of my K3I often work PSK using AFSK but I thought Id give it a try using PSK-D using Kcomm __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Power is fine at the rig drops to 13.4V at 25W key down and 12.6V at 100W no I do not have a filter on the serial port but RF in the shack is low and I've never had any other issues with serial during transmit. and while sending it had no issues with the text.he was just commenting on many bars on the PSK signal. On 5/30/2012 3:44 PM, Adrian wrote: I use PSK - D with Kcomm or K3 utility all the time for rtty . Can you tell me what your indicated K3 voltage is on K3 screen? What is the indicated voltage on 25w key (cw constant keyed) on K3 screen? Do you have a Coilcraft DLFC15 filter in your rs232 line? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
On 5/30/2012 4:40 PM, Adrian wrote: Why does the receive station have a soundcard? He/She does not have to have one. Only some of us are lucky enough to have a K3 that can decode PSK31 on its own. the vast majority have to use a computer and sound card as their only choice. I don’t use one to receive on rtty and send on fsk-D. I can see dirty signals on the P3 waterfall, I don’t need a PC, HRD or any other PC program nor soundcard. Can you receive Olivia, MFSK, or any other modes without a sound card? how about SSTV or DRM? I do them all. It has nothing to do with audio lines or feeds as there are none. The action is as a ky shift keyer and power is the only adjustment. Obviously many here have no idea what FSK-D is or how it works. Most people use AFSK and PSK-A I have for years only very few rigs can do PSK31 without a computer, so sorry for my ignorance on the topic of PSK-D but one has to start somewhere. Ive only had a K3 for a month and don't have a p3 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
Im wondering two things: - How much power output was the K3 in question operating PSK at? PSK is really picky about transmit IMD. IMD increases with power output from any rig, K3 being no exeption. - Did the station that complained about splatter have his noise blanker and/or preamp turned on? If so, the problem might be on the receive end of the path. Both issues beg to be investigated. And yes, with direct PSK-D modulation, the soundcard output from the K3 is moot, however, the soundcard input to the complaining station is not moot, in fact, it is critical, as pointed out by K9YC. Levels are -lu-w4lt- K3#3192 Message: 12 Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 15:17:30 -0400 From: dm...@nexicom.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: 4fc6724a.5350.42e76940.27dc6...@nexicom.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi Jim Thanksgood tips but Keep in mind I am using PSK-D where I am sending serial data to the K3 and letting it do the modulation. so there is no audio path from the PC into the K3. before I had the K3 using the sound card was my only option and even now when using AFSK to the K3 I dont believe I have an issue. It was just when I tried to let the K3 handle the modulation that I got this response and as others have pointed out it is very possible y that there is someting at his end. I was just wondering though if there was someting I can do to controll the IMD at the K3 when using PSK-D as opposed to PSK-A David Moes VE3DVY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
I take it your running a typical 13.8v supply. Running a stiff 15v supply cleans up the K3 TX IM3 dramatically. The filter also keeps the key signals clean into the K3. You say the guy was talking bars on the psk signal. I guess he may not know what he is talking about. Next time you get a bad report, ask them to email a screenshot of your signal or report how wide it is. PSK-D is usually exceptionally clean, and the fix items I mentioned will ensure it stays that way. Loud (bars) does not mean wide. Why do you take notice of idiots like that with stupid non-sense reports. If you turn down your power he has less bars and now your signal is clean. Is that how this guy relates? You assumed he was right regarding your signal, because you asked here regarding answers, and it appears you are not interested in improving your TX IM3 dismissing the proven fixes. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-psk-D-splater-tp7556767p7556811.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
We are taliking PSK-D nothing else, lets stay on topic. This thread refers to you being reported as bas IM3 whilst transmitting FSK-D. My comments regarding ; Why does the receive station have a soundcard? He/She does not have to have one was in regard to another posters comment, why did you think this was directed at you? Can you receive Olivia, MFSK, or any other modes without a sound card? how about SSTV or DRM? I do them all Do you do them all in PSK-D? if not then you are not relevant with that comment. Most people use AFSK and PSK-A. Again that's off topic. I would start a new thread if you want to talk afsk etc. Our concern here is why would a K3 put out a dirty PSK-D signal, Thats what I commented on. Adrian ... vk4tux -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-psk-D-splater-tp7556767p7556814.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 psk D splater
David, I don't know what the max power would be before the internally generated PSK would produce too much IMD but I never use more than 50W. I thought you mentioned in your original post that you were running 25W and that would be fine. I have to wonder just how reliable is the receiving station. It could be you have a very strong signal at his place or, as someone else mentioned, he might have been running an agressive NB or similar. You may have trouble monitoring your signal locally so what I would do is get back on, make another QSO and see what the new partner has to say. I would be happy to sked with you if you think that would make the test easier. Send me an email off list if you would like to do that. GL and 73, Rick k...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
