Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Let's end this recurring thread for now in the interest of relieving email 
topic overload for others :-)

Its well exceeding our single OT posting limit and has a wealth of past posts 
on this topic in our nabble archives etc. 

73,
Eric (a.k.a. Mr. Moderator)
elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 6S

> On Jun 22, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> One can convert red/black zip wire pretty easily:  zip wire separates by 
> pulling the red side away from the black so you  end up with two separate 
> wires (you can even leave the power-pole connector on one end).  Then twist 
> the two wires to obtain twisted-pair.  No waste of those existing power 
> cables.
> 
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
>"Kits made by KL7UW"
> Dubus Mag business:
>dubus...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Edward R Cole]

One can convert red/black zip wire pretty easily:  zip wire separates 
by pulling the red side away from the black so you  end up with two 
separate wires (you can even leave the power-pole connector on one 
end).  Then twist the two wires to obtain twisted-pair.  No waste of 
those existing power cables.



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[David Ahrendts]

Dwight, here’s one example of a shield twisted pair: Belden 12/2 5000FE:  
http://www.showmecables.com/product/Belden-2-Conductor-12-Awg-Stranded-Shielded-Cable-Per-FT.aspx
 

Twisted pair. Foil shielded. Ground.  I looked at this and found a cheaper, 
non-plenum version from another brand (will get you the exact name in a 
separate post). 
So I’ve replaced all zip cable lines and many of the smaller Elecraft lines 
too. Trashed the noisy Samsung switching PS (14V DC) used for the Elecraft SVGA 
display and made a new shielded cable to the Powererx PS and on and on.
Highly effective method to reduce RFI. Pretty convinced noise is not going to 
enter the system through these shielded cables.

David A., KK6DA, Los Angeles 


> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:44 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE  
> wrote:
> 
> Works great!
> 
> Do it all the time.  Father showed me how 50 years ago, the same way
> Vic describes it ;o)
> 
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:44:19 +0300, you wrote:
> 
>> Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one 
>> end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist 
>> away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could 
>> strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
>> 
>> Vic 4X6GP
>> 
>>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
>>> 
>>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
>>> 
 On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
 
 What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the DC 
 cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there any 
 equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
 
 This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair between 
 the PSU and rig.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
>>> 
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David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com   




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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

Hi Jimmy,

While I've not investigated it myself, I've been told by those who have 
that the bus conductors inside some of these boxes are not very robust. 
In my station, I've made my own cable splices using Power Pole 
connectors. One pair, as short as I can make it, goes directly to the 
K3, another goes to a Rig Runner box that feeds power to other boxes 
that don't draw much current (preamp for Beverages, antenna switching, 
SO2R box, etc.).


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,6/20/2016 6:54 PM, James Walker wrote:
You may have something there. I use a rig runner device to divide the 
power supply output among several rigs. I’m going to try some rewiring 
to get a shorter, more direct connection. Thanks. 



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/20/2016 6:50 PM, K9MA wrote:

Call them what you will, connecting a bunch of station components to a common 
DC power return has to be done very carefully.


Yes, it does. The rules are quite simple, and are articulated in the 
Power Point slides I referenced by a link. It's nothing more complicated 
than proper bonding between equipment, and between that equipment and 
all grounded parts of a building.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Drew AF2Z]

Also, the Elecraft supplied DC zip cord can be twisted by hand pretty 
easily.


RFI from wall-wart SMPS supplies might be improved by twisting their 
cords...


73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 06/21/16 00:44, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one end 
in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist away. Not 
shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could strip some 
RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.

Vic 4X6GP


On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB  wrote:


Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?

thanks 73 Dwight NS9I



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Amateur Radio Operator N5GE]

Works great!

Do it all the time.  Father showed me how 50 years ago, the same way
Vic describes it ;o)

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:44:19 +0300, you wrote:

>Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one 
>end in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist 
>away. Not shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could 
>strip some RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.
>
>Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
>> 
>> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
>> 
>>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
 On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
 Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
>>> 
>>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the DC 
>>> cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there any 
>>> equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
>>> 
>>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair between 
>>> the PSU and rig.
>>> 
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
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ARS N5GE

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[G4GNX - Alan]

If that question was directed at me, the answer is that my issues were not 
using my K3 and I only needed to turn off the tuner supply.


73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: Ramon Tristani

Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 6:14 PM
To: G4GNX
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

How can you detect the drifting if RF if Iyou have to turn off the K-3 and 
the P3?



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Vic Rosenthal]

Get some no. 10 stranded wire at Home Depot (etc.), double it over, put one end 
in a vise and the other in the chuck of your electric drill and twist away. Not 
shielded, but much better than parallel wires. I suppose you could strip some 
RG-8 if you really wanted to shield it.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 20 Jun 2016, at 22:54, DGB  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?
> 
> thanks 73 Dwight NS9I
> 
>> On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:
>>> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?
>> 
>> What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the DC 
>> cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there any 
>> equipment (like distribution panel) in between?
>> 
>> This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair between 
>> the PSU and rig.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[K9MA]

Call them what you will, connecting a bunch of station components to a common 
DC power return has to be done very carefully. I've found that often the 
easiest solution is isolated power sources.  Some accessories seem to be 
designed with the assumption of ground isolation using a dedicated wall wart. 

But I'm not going to argue about it. 

73,

Scott. K9MA

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon,6/20/2016 4:38 PM, K9MA wrote:
>> Beware ground loops!
> 
> Horse puckey -- ground loops do not exist, and this very false concept has 
> caused hams to do completely wrong things to solve problems with hum, buzz, 
> and RFI.
> 
> http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Fred Jensen]

I've been told that the "loop" part of "ground loop" is a misnomer.  I 
think the real problem is when a "chassis" connection doesn't really go 
to the conductive enclosure but rather follows on into the "ground" in 
the circuitry, which is probably better termed "common".  In the olden 
days, finding a connection to the "chassis" [i.e. enclosure] was a snap. 
 They were big, heavy, and obvious.  Not so much today.  Finding the 
"chassis" connection on a laptop can be a challenge.


73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/20/2016 4:38 PM, K9MA wrote:

Beware ground loops!

73,

Scott. K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/20/2016 4:38 PM, K9MA wrote:

Beware ground loops!


Horse puckey -- ground loops do not exist, and this very false concept 
has caused hams to do completely wrong things to solve problems with 
hum, buzz, and RFI.


http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[K9MA]

Beware ground loops!

73,

Scott. K9MA

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:21 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> One of my goals is to completely eliminate wall warts in my shack.  I
> planned to use a nice quiet multi-voltage output PS(s) and/or buck/boost
> converters (or other circuitry) to supply power to every device in the
> shack reducing the clutter/complexity/potential culprits.
> Now, I am considering modifying that plan to battery(ies) with quiet
> charger(s) and circuitry to provide required voltages for all devices. 
> Then move out and do the same for the home network, and all other DC
> devices...
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
> 
>> On 6/20/2016 12:06 PM, G4GNX wrote:
>> FWIW I still have a few issues with RFi, but I've managed to cure two
>> of the major ones, the rest are a matter of finding time.
>> 
>> At present, I'm running an MFJ 1500W auto-tuner which needs a 12V
>> supply for the display, logic and relays. I had a massive drifting
>> "birdie" on 40 metres, but it didn't always appear on the same
>> frequency. I found that it shifted frequency with minor changes in
>> load, caused by using different relays within the tuner. I replaced
>> the switch mode PSU and all is now good.
>> 
>> The second major issue was mainly on 2 metres, but there were also
>> sprogs on other bands. This turned out to be a PC PSU which despite an
>> application of ferrite rings, would not lie down! I found that if the
>> PC was put into 'sleep' mode, it would go quiet. I finally replaced
>> the PSU - problem solved.
>> 
>> Just a few thoughts on what you might look for.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Alan. G4GNX
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

['DGB']

Jim ... where does one find #10 twisted pair? Is it shielded?

thanks 73 Dwight NS9I

On 6/20/2016 12:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:

Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?


What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is 
the DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is 
there any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?


This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair 
between the PSU and rig.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Don Wilhelm]

Jimmy,

The voltage at your power supply may indeed be OK, but somewhere in the 
path to the K3, there is a huge resistance.


Possible causes:
- Lugs not tight at the power supply.  Tighten nuts with a wrench.
- Wire gauge inadequate for the K3 load on transmit - use #12 or better #10.
- Long power leads having too much wire resistance - related to above - 
use short wire.
- Incorrectly assembled Anderson Power Pole connector - look at the end 
of the housing.  If you can see the spring metal locking finger below 
the contact blade, it is not correctly assembled - push on the contact 
blade from the rear until the contact blade locks over the spring finger.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/20/2016 1:33 PM, James Walker wrote:

This thread has lead me to notice the comments on operating voltage. I’ve been 
having some trouble with my K-3 and the MCU LD message on startup. It was 
suggested that I monitor the voltage on the rig during operation. I get the 
13.5 on receive. But the voltage drops as low as 10.5 on 100 watt transmit. I 
have an Astron power supply that is rated at 35 amps, very conservative for 
this usage. I have used it to power 100 watt rigs in the past with no problem.

Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3? The power 
supply has meters for amps and volts and the voltage indicated during power 
cycles is unchanged. So it appears the voltage drop is at the rig. I can ever 
see dimming of the dial light in some situations. I don’t think the power 
supply is failing since I don’t notice these symptoms with any other rigs. And 
no, I never use the power supply for more than one rig at a time.




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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Bill]

I replaced two OLD astrons (over 30 years on each) last summer with a 
couple of Powerwerx SS-30DVs and have had no problems with noise at all.


Having said that, I should qualify my statement: I have a typical noise 
level of band noise only. In other words, I receive no noise from local 
modern conveniences. My antennas are 100 feet from the house. Distance 
makes a wonderful noise insulator.


When I switch to a multi-band dipole fastened to an eave corner of the 
house - the noise will jump a couple of S units. That is the local 
modern crap that infests the house. And, that is why my regular antennas 
are well removed from the house.


By the way, those new power supplies do not even cause a problem on the 
close in antenna. Very quiet.


Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

Understand...  I am conserving/reserving as much space as possible for
amps and amp PS...  and TMDE equipment.

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On 6/20/2016 1:19 PM, Rick Robinson wrote:
> I guess space might be a concern on large current supply's. There are
> ways around that but I was mainly thinking qrp level power supply's.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

That is woefully unacceptable voltage regulation...  you have an issue. 
I believe the MAX spread on the K3 is 11-15 VDC IIRC.

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On 6/20/2016 12:33 PM, James Walker wrote:
> This thread has lead me to notice the comments on operating voltage. I’ve 
> been having some trouble with my K-3 and the MCU LD message on startup. It 
> was suggested that I monitor the voltage on the rig during operation. I get 
> the 13.5 on receive. But the voltage drops as low as 10.5 on 100 watt 
> transmit. I have an Astron power supply that is rated at 35 amps, very 
> conservative for this usage. I have used it to power 100 watt rigs in the 
> past with no problem.
>
> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3? The power 
> supply has meters for amps and volts and the voltage indicated during power 
> cycles is unchanged. So it appears the voltage drop is at the rig. I can ever 
> see dimming of the dial light in some situations. I don’t think the power 
> supply is failing since I don’t notice these symptoms with any other rigs. 
> And no, I never use the power supply for more than one rig at a time.
>
> Jimmy Walker
> WA4ILO
> Macon, GA
>
> On Jun 20, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Clay Autery 
> mailto:caut...@montac.com>> wrote:
>
> Mine IS one of the newer ones that was originally 14.19 VDC.  I
> learned where the pot was at HAMCOM, and the first thing I did when I
> got home was adjust it to provide the K3s 13.8.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

Haven't yet...  more of a general term to cover devicets/circuits to
change a base voltage out to multiple needed.

Many ways to skin that particular cat...  ;)

73,

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MONTAC Enterprises
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On 6/20/2016 12:27 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Clay,
>
> Where do you find buck/boost converters that are other than switch
> mode devices?
> Most all I have seen are similar to switch mode power supplies.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 't yet...
> On 6/20/2016 1:21 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Rick Robinson]

I guess space might be a concern on large current supply's. There are ways
around that but I was mainly thinking qrp level power supply's.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:

> On 6/20/2016 12:03 PM, Rick Robinson wrote:
> > Why, if the weight would not be a factor, do folks want to take a chance
> on
> > a potentially noisy ps ?
>
> Because some of us are EXTREMELY limited on space...  My entire shack
> must fit in a cube 4 feet x 3 feet by 8 feet.
> I suspect there are other reasons, like not wanting to lift/move 30-50
> pound components, et al.
>
> 73,
>
> __
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> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[David Bunte]

James -

The first thing I would do is check the voltage at the K3.  If you have a
long run of cable from your PS, of if you have connectors that are not
fully seated, or correctly installed, that would likely result in voltage
drop that would be detrimental.

Best of luck es 73 de Dave - K9FN

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 1:33 PM, James Walker 
wrote:

> This thread has lead me to notice the comments on operating voltage. I’ve
> been having some trouble with my K-3 and the MCU LD message on startup. It
> was suggested that I monitor the voltage on the rig during operation. I get
> the 13.5 on receive. But the voltage drops as low as 10.5 on 100 watt
> transmit. I have an Astron power supply that is rated at 35 amps, very
> conservative for this usage. I have used it to power 100 watt rigs in the
> past with no problem.
>
> Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3? The power
> supply has meters for amps and volts and the voltage indicated during power
> cycles is unchanged. So it appears the voltage drop is at the rig. I can
> ever see dimming of the dial light in some situations. I don’t think the
> power supply is failing since I don’t notice these symptoms with any other
> rigs. And no, I never use the power supply for more than one rig at a time.
>
> Jimmy Walker
> WA4ILO
> Macon, GA
>
> On Jun 20, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Clay Autery  caut...@montac.com>> wrote:
>
> Mine IS one of the newer ones that was originally 14.19 VDC.  I
> learned where the pot was at HAMCOM, and the first thing I did when I
> got home was adjust it to provide the K3s 13.8.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/20/2016 10:33 AM, James Walker wrote:

Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3?


What you're seeing sounds like IR drop in the DC cable. How long is the 
DC cable between the K3 and the power supply? What wire gauge? Is there 
any equipment (like distribution panel) in between?


This is a great application for a short length of #10 twisted pair 
between the PSU and rig.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[James Walker]

This thread has lead me to notice the comments on operating voltage. I’ve been 
having some trouble with my K-3 and the MCU LD message on startup. It was 
suggested that I monitor the voltage on the rig during operation. I get the 
13.5 on receive. But the voltage drops as low as 10.5 on 100 watt transmit. I 
have an Astron power supply that is rated at 35 amps, very conservative for 
this usage. I have used it to power 100 watt rigs in the past with no problem.

Is it normal to register voltage as low as I’m seeing on my K-3? The power 
supply has meters for amps and volts and the voltage indicated during power 
cycles is unchanged. So it appears the voltage drop is at the rig. I can ever 
see dimming of the dial light in some situations. I don’t think the power 
supply is failing since I don’t notice these symptoms with any other rigs. And 
no, I never use the power supply for more than one rig at a time.

Jimmy Walker
WA4ILO
Macon, GA

On Jun 20, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Clay Autery 
mailto:caut...@montac.com>> wrote:

Mine IS one of the newer ones that was originally 14.19 VDC.  I
learned where the pot was at HAMCOM, and the first thing I did when I
got home was adjust it to provide the K3s 13.8.

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Bill Frantz]

I frequently use my KX3 for portable operation after an airplane 
trip. A light weight PS is a big plus since I am frequently near 
the 50 lb (22 Kg) limit.


BTW, I have been quite happy with my Pro Audio Engineering 
PAE-Kx33 power supply, even in rural New Hampshire with the 
associated very low levels of RFI.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/20/16 at 10:03 AM, rickw...@gmail.com (Rick Robinson) wrote:

most everyone wants a smps instead of a small 3 amp linear 
supply. ... It seems like a lot of folks operate from home and 
want a smps.

Why, if the weight would not be a factor, do folks want to take a chance on
a potentially noisy ps ?


---
Bill Frantz| "The only thing we have to   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | fear is fear itself." - FDR  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Don Wilhelm]

Clay,

Where do you find buck/boost converters that are other than switch mode 
devices?

Most all I have seen are similar to switch mode power supplies.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/20/2016 1:21 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

One of my goals is to completely eliminate wall warts in my shack.  I
planned to use a nice quiet multi-voltage output PS(s) and/or buck/boost
converters (or other circuitry) to supply power to every device in the
shack


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

Thanks...

One of my goals is to completely eliminate wall warts in my shack.  I
planned to use a nice quiet multi-voltage output PS(s) and/or buck/boost
converters (or other circuitry) to supply power to every device in the
shack reducing the clutter/complexity/potential culprits.
Now, I am considering modifying that plan to battery(ies) with quiet
charger(s) and circuitry to provide required voltages for all devices. 
Then move out and do the same for the home network, and all other DC
devices...

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MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 12:06 PM, G4GNX wrote:
> FWIW I still have a few issues with RFi, but I've managed to cure two
> of the major ones, the rest are a matter of finding time.
>
> At present, I'm running an MFJ 1500W auto-tuner which needs a 12V
> supply for the display, logic and relays. I had a massive drifting
> "birdie" on 40 metres, but it didn't always appear on the same
> frequency. I found that it shifted frequency with minor changes in
> load, caused by using different relays within the tuner. I replaced
> the switch mode PSU and all is now good.
>
> The second major issue was mainly on 2 metres, but there were also
> sprogs on other bands. This turned out to be a PC PSU which despite an
> application of ferrite rings, would not lie down! I found that if the
> PC was put into 'sleep' mode, it would go quiet. I finally replaced
> the PSU - problem solved.
>
> Just a few thoughts on what you might look for.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

On 6/20/2016 12:03 PM, Rick Robinson wrote:
> Why, if the weight would not be a factor, do folks want to take a chance on
> a potentially noisy ps ? 

Because some of us are EXTREMELY limited on space...  My entire shack
must fit in a cube 4 feet x 3 feet by 8 feet.
I suspect there are other reasons, like not wanting to lift/move 30-50
pound components, et al.

73,

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MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Ramon Tristani]

How can you detect the drifting if RF if Iyou have to turn off the K-3 and the 
P3?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 1:06 PM, G4GNX  wrote:
> 
> FWIW I still have a few issues with RFi, but I've managed to cure two of the 
> major ones, the rest are a matter of finding time.
> 
> At present, I'm running an MFJ 1500W auto-tuner which needs a 12V supply for 
> the display, logic and relays. I had a massive drifting "birdie" on 40 
> metres, but it didn't always appear on the same frequency. I found that it 
> shifted frequency with minor changes in load, caused by using different 
> relays within the tuner. I replaced the switch mode PSU and all is now good.
> 
> The second major issue was mainly on 2 metres, but there were also sprogs on 
> other bands. This turned out to be a PC PSU which despite an application of 
> ferrite rings, would not lie down! I found that if the PC was put into 
> 'sleep' mode, it would go quiet. I finally replaced the PSU - problem solved.
> 
> Just a few thoughts on what you might look for.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Alan. G4GNX
> 
> -Original Message----- From: Clay Autery
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 5:41 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s
> 
> Marc and Drew,
> 
> Appreciate the feedback... Checking my PS is my first test.  Will power
> off all circuits except the one to my shack that runs the AC to the PS.
> Then I'll A/B with radio on battery and on the PS.  (PS
> air-gapped/unplugged when on batt).
> If it is the PS, I'll try to choke the I/O power leads first before
> doing anything else.
> 
> I've a strong feeling it is NOT the SS-30DV...  My antenna is an 80m
> loop outside at 38-40 feet.  Fed with 300 ladder to the 6:1 balun.  Only
> 15-20 feet of coax total (LMR240-DB with N-Connectors) direct from balun
> to radio.
> 
> Before I do anything beyond IDing culprits, I have to address other
> shortcomings first:  1) Insufficient service ground, 2) no shack ground,
> 3) no bond from non-existent shack ground to service ground.  :(
> Knew I should have done those things BEFORE I went OTA...  the mic/K3 is
> a huge distraction from my TO DO list.  ;)
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

LOL!  Mine IS one of the newer ones that was originally 14.19 VDC.  I
learned where the pot was at HAMCOM, and the first thing I did when I
got home was adjust it to provide the K3s 13.8.
I am aware that this voided my warranty...  I'd rather eat the cost of a
new SS-30DV and KNOW I'm feeding the $$$ K3s as close to spec as
possible.  (yes, I am THAT OCD).

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MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 11:44 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> FWIW, the ss-30dv that Elecraft sells is listed at 14.1 VDC. Older
> units sold elsewhere were listed at lower output voltage but you can
> adjust an internal pot to bring them up to 14.1. t
>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[G4GNX]

FWIW I still have a few issues with RFi, but I've managed to cure two of the 
major ones, the rest are a matter of finding time.


At present, I'm running an MFJ 1500W auto-tuner which needs a 12V supply for 
the display, logic and relays. I had a massive drifting "birdie" on 40 
metres, but it didn't always appear on the same frequency. I found that it 
shifted frequency with minor changes in load, caused by using different 
relays within the tuner. I replaced the switch mode PSU and all is now good.


The second major issue was mainly on 2 metres, but there were also sprogs on 
other bands. This turned out to be a PC PSU which despite an application of 
ferrite rings, would not lie down! I found that if the PC was put into 
'sleep' mode, it would go quiet. I finally replaced the PSU - problem 
solved.


Just a few thoughts on what you might look for.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: Clay Autery

Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 5:41 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

Marc and Drew,

Appreciate the feedback... Checking my PS is my first test.  Will power
off all circuits except the one to my shack that runs the AC to the PS.
Then I'll A/B with radio on battery and on the PS.  (PS
air-gapped/unplugged when on batt).
If it is the PS, I'll try to choke the I/O power leads first before
doing anything else.

I've a strong feeling it is NOT the SS-30DV...  My antenna is an 80m
loop outside at 38-40 feet.  Fed with 300 ladder to the 6:1 balun.  Only
15-20 feet of coax total (LMR240-DB with N-Connectors) direct from balun
to radio.

Before I do anything beyond IDing culprits, I have to address other
shortcomings first:  1) Insufficient service ground, 2) no shack ground,
3) no bond from non-existent shack ground to service ground.  :(
Knew I should have done those things BEFORE I went OTA...  the mic/K3 is
a huge distraction from my TO DO list.  ;)

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Rick Robinson]

Dave, you have brought up something I have wondered about for some time. I
have had my kx3 for three plus years and have been on many lists and most
everyone wants a smps instead of a small 3 amp linear supply. Radio Shack
and many others made these supply's and they are plentiful at Hamfests for
10-20 USD. It seems like a lot of folks operate from home and want a smps .
Why, if the weight would not be a factor, do folks want to take a chance on
a potentially noisy ps ? I use a big linear supply which also feeds my
IC7200 but if the need arises I use a small linear supply. I do have a nice
switcher which I do not notice any noise but it is used a bench supply. It
is a Alinco something 330. Variable output and has noise shift. Anyway, I
don't want to hijack this thread, just wondering.

On Monday, June 20, 2016, Dave B via Elecraft 
wrote:

> Cant help thinking, that the charge to discharge "Efficiency" is probably
> no better than a good linear PSU, but you do I guess get the "Off grid"
> option for EMCOM work..
>
> There ARE (RF)quiet SMPS's out there, but not priced in a way that will
> suit the average Ham's budget.   You get what you pay for.  Oh, and they
> tend to be large too, due to the filtering.
>
> Quite honestly, for "Amateur" work, where the rig will usually spend most
> of it's life in RX, a linear PSU is just fine.   Plus, you can fix them
> when things fail.   Try that with a modern well suppresed QRO SMPS!..
>
> 73.
>
> Dave G0WBX.
>
>
> ~~~ Original message.
>
> From: Marc Veeneman
> To:pu...@af2z.net
> Cc:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s
> Message-ID:<768828b9-af69-479e-8e38-2fbeec234...@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii
>
> My PowerWerx supply DOES generate those drifting noise spikes, ruining CW
> on 80 meters for me.  I have yet to find a 13.8 volt switching supply that
> can provide 25 quiet amps.  I've gone entirely to batteries rather than use
> quiet but inefficient linear supplies.
>
>  Now I only have SMPS noise when recharging the batteries.  So I leave
> that for non-hamming hours.  More testing is needed, but I did find one
> SMPS for LiFePO4 batteries that seemed RFI free.  It's an Optimate brand
> product but only produces 5 amps.
>
>
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>


-- 
Rick, W8ZT

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

I'm an old network guy, and have added "elimination of all parallel
conductor cables" to my TODO list in favor of UTP/STP.
Bottom Line:  I want to quiet my "shack" as much as possible such that
any significant RFI has to be external...

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MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 10:51 AM, David Ahrendts wrote:
> Gents, that’s my setup also with K3S #10125, and I’m convinced the
> Powerwerx SS-30DV is a stable, quiet, top-notch amp recommended by the
> fine people a Elecraft (it’s what they use on the road). However,
> thanks to some great advice from people here, I have eliminated the
> black-red zip cable from all uses in my station. Zip line, or for that
> matter, any parallel cable, like monster speaker cable, is highly
> susceptible to RFI. This was a lesson from the early days of stringing
> telephone cable. The solution: twisted pairs, and even better in 2016,
> _shielded_ twisted pairs. So every power cable has been replaced in my
> station with shielded twisted pairs, further protected with ferrite
> snap-on beads. Even further, I’ve eliminated every switching power
> supply nearby. It has helped immensely.   
> That said, some of those pesky slowly drifting S9+ noise bumps still
> live! 
>
> David A., KK6DA, Los Angeles
>
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Drew AF2Z]

FWIW, the ss-30dv that Elecraft sells is listed at 14.1 VDC. Older units 
sold elsewhere were listed at lower output voltage but you can adjust an 
internal pot to bring them up to 14.1.


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 06/20/16 11:30, Clay Autery wrote:

I certainly hope you are correct.  I love this little power supply.  It
keeps my K3s/P3 smack dab on 13.8 RX and no lower than 13.5 on TX@100W.
But it will be check #1.  Learned a long time ago not to make
assumptions or NOT eliminate variables (when possible).

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389





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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/20/2016 3:46 AM, Dave Cole wrote:

The last page says it is page 17 of 19...  What's on the last 2 pages?

Last two pages is stuff I deleted. :)


BTW, nice job on the new paper on RFI!


 Thanks!

73, Jim


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

Marc and Drew,

Appreciate the feedback... Checking my PS is my first test.  Will power
off all circuits except the one to my shack that runs the AC to the PS. 
Then I'll A/B with radio on battery and on the PS.  (PS
air-gapped/unplugged when on batt).
If it is the PS, I'll try to choke the I/O power leads first before
doing anything else.

I've a strong feeling it is NOT the SS-30DV...  My antenna is an 80m
loop outside at 38-40 feet.  Fed with 300 ladder to the 6:1 balun.  Only
15-20 feet of coax total (LMR240-DB with N-Connectors) direct from balun
to radio.

Before I do anything beyond IDing culprits, I have to address other
shortcomings first:  1) Insufficient service ground, 2) no shack ground,
3) no bond from non-existent shack ground to service ground.  :(
Knew I should have done those things BEFORE I went OTA...  the mic/K3 is
a huge distraction from my TO DO list.  ;)

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 7:45 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> I do also have multiple turns of the p/s power cord wound through a
> large toroid, just for good measure. I investigated the Powerwerx at
> one time when I was having some RFI problems, comparing it side by
> side with a linear supply, and just didn't find the ss-30dv to be a
> problem. My main problem was the DSL modem, and perhaps copper phone
> lines, now eliminated by Fios internet.
>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>
>
>
> On 06/20/16 07:59, Marc Veeneman wrote:
>> My PowerWerx supply DOES generate those drifting noise spikes,
>> ruining CW on 80 meters for me.  I have yet to find a 13.8 volt
>> switching supply that can provide 25 quiet amps.  I've gone entirely
>> to batteries rather than use quiet but inefficient linear supplies.
>>
>>   Now I only have SMPS noise when recharging the batteries.  So I
>> leave that for non-hamming hours.  More testing is needed, but I did
>> find one SMPS for LiFePO4 batteries that seemed RFI free.  It's an
>> Optimate brand product but only produces 5 amps.

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Cant help thinking, that the charge to discharge "Efficiency" is probably no better than 
a good linear PSU, but you do I guess get the "Off grid" option for EMCOM work..

There ARE (RF)quiet SMPS's out there, but not priced in a way that will suit 
the average Ham's budget.   You get what you pay for.  Oh, and they tend to be 
large too, due to the filtering.

Quite honestly, for "Amateur" work, where the rig will usually spend most of 
it's life in RX, a linear PSU is just fine.   Plus, you can fix them when things fail.   
Try that with a modern well suppresed QRO SMPS!..

73.

Dave G0WBX.


~~~ Original message.

From: Marc Veeneman
To:pu...@af2z.net
Cc:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s
Message-ID:<768828b9-af69-479e-8e38-2fbeec234...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

My PowerWerx supply DOES generate those drifting noise spikes, ruining CW on 80 
meters for me.  I have yet to find a 13.8 volt switching supply that can 
provide 25 quiet amps.  I've gone entirely to batteries rather than use quiet 
but inefficient linear supplies.

 Now I only have SMPS noise when recharging the batteries.  So I leave that for 
non-hamming hours.  More testing is needed, but I did find one SMPS for LiFePO4 
batteries that seemed RFI free.  It's an Optimate brand product but only 
produces 5 amps.


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[David Ahrendts]

Gents, that’s my setup also with K3S #10125, and I’m convinced the Powerwerx 
SS-30DV is a stable, quiet, top-notch amp recommended by the fine people a 
Elecraft (it’s what they use on the road). However, thanks to some great advice 
from people here, I have eliminated the black-red zip cable from all uses in my 
station. Zip line, or for that matter, any parallel cable, like monster speaker 
cable, is highly susceptible to RFI. This was a lesson from the early days of 
stringing telephone cable. The solution: twisted pairs, and even better in 
2016, shielded twisted pairs. So every power cable has been replaced in my 
station with shielded twisted pairs, further protected with ferrite snap-on 
beads. Even further, I’ve eliminated every switching power supply nearby. It 
has helped immensely.   
That said, some of those pesky slowly drifting S9+ noise bumps still live! 

David A., KK6DA, Los Angeles



I certainly hope you are correct.  I love this little power supply.  It
keeps my K3s/P3 smack dab on 13.8 RX and no lower than 13.5 on TX@100W.
But it will be check #1.  Learned a long time ago not to make
assumptions or NOT eliminate variables (when possible).

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 6:45 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> I have a Powerwerx SS-30DV also. I think it is unlikely that this PS
> would put out that kind of trash. I've found it to be very quiet even
> listening with an endfed wire antenna within inches of it.
> 
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z



> On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> On 6/20/2016 5:28 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> Sometimes you can "get a feeling", where they are located by watching
>> the timing...  Do they drift in the morning, and after sunset, if so,
>> the SMPS might be outside, on in a non temperature controlled area, if
>> not it might be inside...  
>> 
>> Do they happen at set intervals?  Time to do the power off test to your
>> home and see if they go away...  If you are lucky they will...
>> 
>> If they do, bring the house up one breaker at a time, looking for the
>> RFI to start...  If not, then set up S-Meter Lite, look for patterns,
>> then after a week or so of recording what is happening, take out a loop
>> and start looking for it...
> Thank you...  I think I will TRACK when they are stable vs. drifting... 
> First, I need to find a good battery and QUIET float charger for the K3/P3.
> 
> Lot of info in short reply.  S-Meter Lite...  Thanks!  Got it now.
> Need to research/build the loop(s).
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389




David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com   




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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

I certainly hope you are correct.  I love this little power supply.  It
keeps my K3s/P3 smack dab on 13.8 RX and no lower than 13.5 on TX@100W.
But it will be check #1.  Learned a long time ago not to make
assumptions or NOT eliminate variables (when possible).

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 6:45 AM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> I have a Powerwerx SS-30DV also. I think it is unlikely that this PS
> would put out that kind of trash. I've found it to be very quiet even
> listening with an endfed wire antenna within inches of it.
>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

On 6/20/2016 5:28 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Sometimes you can "get a feeling", where they are located by watching
> the timing...  Do they drift in the morning, and after sunset, if so,
> the SMPS might be outside, on in a non temperature controlled area, if
> not it might be inside...  
>
> Do they happen at set intervals?  Time to do the power off test to your
> home and see if they go away...  If you are lucky they will...
>
> If they do, bring the house up one breaker at a time, looking for the
> RFI to start...  If not, then set up S-Meter Lite, look for patterns,
> then after a week or so of recording what is happening, take out a loop
> and start looking for it...
Thank you...  I think I will TRACK when they are stable vs. drifting... 
First, I need to find a good battery and QUIET float charger for the K3/P3.

Lot of info in short reply.  S-Meter Lite...  Thanks!  Got it now.
Need to research/build the loop(s).

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[K9MA]

I've also used that Samlex supply, with no sign of RFI. 

Scott. K9MA

--

Scott Ellington

 --- via iPad

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Marty Koszewski  wrote:
> 
> I had the same issue.  It was caused by my Powerwerx SS-30DV.   After trying 
> a number of things to mitigate the noise, I ended up replacing the power 
> supply with a Samlex SEC 1235M.  Noise gone.  Problem solved.
> 
> Marty - K1MTK
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:55:59 -0500
> From: Clay Autery 
> To: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I am seeing a repetitive RFI source every 34kHz from somewhere less than
> 20MHz thru 30MHz plus...
> 
> See attached image.  The amplitude alternates high/low every other
> appearance.  The overall amplitude is higher or lower depending on the
> location within the spectrum  Almost a sine wave function with a
> VERY long period.
> 
> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what is causing it?  I disco'd every
> switch-mode power supply in the shack and adjacent rooms (couldn't do
> the whole house as the XYL was home) EXCEPT my Powerwerx SS-30DV PS
> running the K3s/P3.
> 
> Don't have a battery to run the radio on right now...
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
> 
> 
> 
> -
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Marty Koszewski]

I had the same issue.  It was caused by my Powerwerx SS-30DV.   After trying a 
number of things to mitigate the noise, I ended up replacing the power supply 
with a Samlex SEC 1235M.  Noise gone.  Problem solved.

Marty - K1MTK


---




Message: 20
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:55:59 -0500
From: Clay Autery 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I am seeing a repetitive RFI source every 34kHz from somewhere less than
20MHz thru 30MHz plus...

See attached image.  The amplitude alternates high/low every other
appearance.  The overall amplitude is higher or lower depending on the
location within the spectrum  Almost a sine wave function with a
VERY long period.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what is causing it?  I disco'd every
switch-mode power supply in the shack and adjacent rooms (couldn't do
the whole house as the XYL was home) EXCEPT my Powerwerx SS-30DV PS
running the K3s/P3.

Don't have a battery to run the radio on right now...



-- 
__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Drew AF2Z]

I do also have multiple turns of the p/s power cord wound through a 
large toroid, just for good measure. I investigated the Powerwerx at one 
time when I was having some RFI problems, comparing it side by side with 
a linear supply, and just didn't find the ss-30dv to be a problem. My 
main problem was the DSL modem, and perhaps copper phone lines, now 
eliminated by Fios internet.


73,
Drew
AF2Z



On 06/20/16 07:59, Marc Veeneman wrote:

My PowerWerx supply DOES generate those drifting noise spikes, ruining CW on 80 
meters for me.  I have yet to find a 13.8 volt switching supply that can 
provide 25 quiet amps.  I've gone entirely to batteries rather than use quiet 
but inefficient linear supplies.

  Now I only have SMPS noise when recharging the batteries.  So I leave that 
for non-hamming hours.  More testing is needed, but I did find one SMPS for 
LiFePO4 batteries that seemed RFI free.  It's an Optimate brand product but 
only produces 5 amps.



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Marc Veeneman via Elecraft]

My PowerWerx supply DOES generate those drifting noise spikes, ruining CW on 80 
meters for me.  I have yet to find a 13.8 volt switching supply that can 
provide 25 quiet amps.  I've gone entirely to batteries rather than use quiet 
but inefficient linear supplies. 

 Now I only have SMPS noise when recharging the batteries.  So I leave that for 
non-hamming hours.  More testing is needed, but I did find one SMPS for LiFePO4 
batteries that seemed RFI free.  It's an Optimate brand product but only 
produces 5 amps.
-- 
Marc  WW8SDG

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Drew AF2Z  wrote:
> 
> I have a Powerwerx SS-30DV also. I think it is unlikely that this PS would 
> put out that kind of trash. I've found it to be very quiet even listening 
> with an endfed wire antenna within inches of it.
> 
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
> 
> 
>> On 06/20/16 01:38, Clay Autery wrote:
>> That's what I figured... Now to locate which one of the 50+ that are
>> present in this house alone...
>> 
>> They actually appear all the way down into the 14MHz range...  Always
>> there.  Tonight they were relatively stable in location... drifting
>> slowly, and even changed directions once.  At other times, the cyclical
>> migration up or down the band is faster and sometimes random, switching
>> directions repetitively and without discernible (to me) pattern.
>> 
>> Off to read...  Hopefully it is not the power supply I use for the K3s/P3...
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> MONTAC Enterprises
>> (318) 518-1389
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Drew AF2Z]

I have a Powerwerx SS-30DV also. I think it is unlikely that this PS 
would put out that kind of trash. I've found it to be very quiet even 
listening with an endfed wire antenna within inches of it.


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 06/20/16 01:38, Clay Autery wrote:

That's what I figured... Now to locate which one of the 50+ that are
present in this house alone...

They actually appear all the way down into the 14MHz range...  Always
there.  Tonight they were relatively stable in location... drifting
slowly, and even changed directions once.  At other times, the cyclical
migration up or down the band is faster and sometimes random, switching
directions repetitively and without discernible (to me) pattern.

Off to read...  Hopefully it is not the power supply I use for the K3s/P3...


73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389



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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Dave Cole]

On Sun, 2016-06-19 at 22:05 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:
> Digital circuitry or SMPS are the most likely cause. See my latest 
> tutorial, linked below, to learn how to tell which is which. 34 kHz 
> suggests a 17 kHz square wave.
> 
> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC

Jim,
The last page says it is page 17 of 19...  What's on the last 2 pages?

BTW, nice job on the new paper on RFI!
-- 

73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net
-- 

73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Dave Cole]

On Mon, 2016-06-20 at 00:38 -0500, Clay Autery wrote:
> That's what I figured... Now to locate which one of the 50+ that are
> present in this house alone...
> 
> They actually appear all the way down into the 14MHz range...  Always
> there.  Tonight they were relatively stable in location... drifting
> slowly, and even changed directions once.  At other times, the
> cyclical migration up or down the band is faster and sometimes random,
> switching directions repetitively and without discernible (to me)
> pattern.
> 

Sometimes you can "get a feeling", where they are located by watching
the timing...  Do they drift in the morning, and after sunset, if so,
the SMPS might be outside, on in a non temperature controlled area, if
not it might be inside...  

Do they happen at set intervals?  Time to do the power off test to your
home and see if they go away...  If you are lucky they will...

If they do, bring the house up one breaker at a time, looking for the
RFI to start...  If not, then set up S-Meter Lite, look for patterns,
then after a week or so of recording what is happening, take out a loop
and start looking for it...

-- 

73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

That's what I figured... Now to locate which one of the 50+ that are
present in this house alone...

They actually appear all the way down into the 14MHz range...  Always
there.  Tonight they were relatively stable in location... drifting
slowly, and even changed directions once.  At other times, the cyclical
migration up or down the band is faster and sometimes random, switching
directions repetitively and without discernible (to me) pattern.

Off to read...  Hopefully it is not the power supply I use for the K3s/P3...


73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/20/2016 12:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sun,6/19/2016 10:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> http://montac.com/images/shack/34kHz_RFI_-20MHz_to_30MHz_plus.jpg
>
> The traces drifting in frequency and modulated by noise tells us it's
> a switching power supply.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/19/2016 10:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

http://montac.com/images/shack/34kHz_RFI_-20MHz_to_30MHz_plus.jpg


The traces drifting in frequency and modulated by noise tells us it's a 
switching power supply.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/19/2016 9:55 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what is causing it?  I disco'd every
switch-mode power supply in the shack and adjacent rooms (couldn't do
the whole house as the XYL was home) EXCEPT my Powerwerx SS-30DV PS
running the K3s/P3.


Digital circuitry or SMPS are the most likely cause. See my latest 
tutorial, linked below, to learn how to tell which is which. 34 kHz 
suggests a 17 kHz square wave.


http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] RFI on K3s

[Clay Autery]

No images in reflector posts...

Here's the link to the RFI I'm seeing on the P3 in 160 kHz of the 10+MHz
bandwidth I checked.

http://montac.com/images/shack/34kHz_RFI_-20MHz_to_30MHz_plus.jpg

Original post below:

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/19/2016 11:55 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> I am seeing a repetitive RFI source every 34kHz from somewhere less than
> 20MHz thru 30MHz plus...
>
> See attached image.  The amplitude alternates high/low every other
> appearance.  The overall amplitude is higher or lower depending on the
> location within the spectrum  Almost a sine wave function with a
> VERY long period.
>
> Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what is causing it?  I disco'd every
> switch-mode power supply in the shack and adjacent rooms (couldn't do
> the whole house as the XYL was home) EXCEPT my Powerwerx SS-30DV PS
> running the K3s/P3.
>
> Don't have a battery to run the radio on right now...
>
>
>

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