Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Duane Johnson]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:38 PM, 'Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss <
elm-discuss@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I agree with you there. I'm just pointing out that calling this a
> community decision is misrepresenting things.
>

What would a community decision look like to you (procedurally)?

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

I agree with you there. I'm just pointing out that calling this a community 
decision is misrepresenting things. 

On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 21:04:27 UTC, Duane Johnson wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, 'Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss <
> elm-d...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> No, it wasn't.  Some parts of the community were aware of it, but calling 
>> it a community decision is overstating it.
>
>
> While I wish it were otherwise, my experience from other communities is 
> that consensus (if that's what you're looking for), or even an attempt at 
> complete inclusion, in community decision-making is both procedurally 
> costly and an impediment to progress.
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Nick H]

>
> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
> List.range with List.(..) operator ?


Forgive me if somebody has already pointed this out, but it is very easy to
write such a function yourself.

(..) : Int -> Int -> List Int
> (..) a b = List.range a b
>

If this is something that people are interested in, I think it's worth
adding to elm-community/list-extra


On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 1:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة  wrote:

> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
>
>
> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>>
>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
>> empty when a > b.
>>
>> Perhaps there should be *List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1* to solve your
>> problem.
>>
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Duane Johnson]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, 'Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss <
elm-discuss@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> No, it wasn't.  Some parts of the community were aware of it, but calling
> it a community decision is overstating it.


While I wish it were otherwise, my experience from other communities is
that consensus (if that's what you're looking for), or even an attempt at
complete inclusion, in community decision-making is both procedurally
costly and an impediment to progress.

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

No, it wasn't.  Some parts of the community were aware of it, but calling 
it a community decision is overstating it. 

On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:30:52 UTC, Robin Heggelund Hansen wrote:
>
>  This was very much a community decision
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Nick H]

It was indeed:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/elm-discuss/ehtYLofp3TE

Responses ranged from "I'd rather get rid of it" to "I like it, but I
wouldn't complain if it went away." There was also a lovely tangent about
Hoogle.

Nobody was worried at that time that changing the syntax would drive away
our existing user base. Maybe they were blinded by the fact that it's not
that important.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:30 AM, Robin Heggelund Hansen <
skinney...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I seem to remember that the discussion to keep or remove range syntax was
> done here on the mailing list, and a lot of people had no hard feelings
> about it going away. This was very much a community decision.
>
>
> tirsdag 15. november 2016 16.19.54 UTC+1 skrev Andrew Radford følgende:
>>
>> I don't think flippantly dismissing anyone who abandons Elm as having a
>> tenuous connection is fair.  A lot of existing users, especially long time
>> users who when they started, may have done so because of the 'niceties'
>> like this, and they are now being slowly eroded. Maybe you could say they
>> are now better off going to purescript/websharper/whatever, but they are
>> also the guys actually using Elm to get real stuff done, and  often act as
>> evangelists /'recruiters' to bring more newcomers to Elm in the first
>> place. Simplifying Elm to attract the JS hordes may be a good way to grow
>> the user base, but it will come at the expense of some of these guys
>> leaving, which is a bit sad.
>>
>> As usual, it's a tricky (but hopefully correct) BDFL decision for the
>> good of the language ecosystem and usage, but not a clear slam-dunk for the
>> language itself according to a lot of people.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 13:47:43 UTC, Max Goldstein wrote:
>>>
>>> If someone was so tenuously commuted to Elm that this syntax removal
>>> drives them away, oh well.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Robin Heggelund Hansen]

I seem to remember that the discussion to keep or remove range syntax was 
done here on the mailing list, and a lot of people had no hard feelings 
about it going away. This was very much a community decision.

tirsdag 15. november 2016 16.19.54 UTC+1 skrev Andrew Radford følgende:
>
> I don't think flippantly dismissing anyone who abandons Elm as having a 
> tenuous connection is fair.  A lot of existing users, especially long time 
> users who when they started, may have done so because of the 'niceties' 
> like this, and they are now being slowly eroded. Maybe you could say they 
> are now better off going to purescript/websharper/whatever, but they are 
> also the guys actually using Elm to get real stuff done, and  often act as 
> evangelists /'recruiters' to bring more newcomers to Elm in the first 
> place. Simplifying Elm to attract the JS hordes may be a good way to grow 
> the user base, but it will come at the expense of some of these guys 
> leaving, which is a bit sad. 
>
> As usual, it's a tricky (but hopefully correct) BDFL decision for the good 
> of the language ecosystem and usage, but not a clear slam-dunk for the 
> language itself according to a lot of people.
>
> On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 13:47:43 UTC, Max Goldstein wrote:
>>
>> If someone was so tenuously commuted to Elm that this syntax removal 
>> drives them away, oh well.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

I don't think flippantly dismissing anyone who abandons Elm as having a 
tenuous connection is fair.  A lot of existing users, especially long time 
users who when they started, may have done so because of the 'niceties' 
like this, and they are now being slowly eroded. Maybe you could say they 
are now better off going to purescript/websharper/whatever, but they are 
also the guys actually using Elm to get real stuff done, and  often act as 
evangelists /'recruiters' to bring more newcomers to Elm in the first 
place. Simplifying Elm to attract the JS hordes may be a good way to grow 
the user base, but it will come at the expense of some of these guys 
leaving, which is a bit sad. 

As usual, it's a tricky (but hopefully correct) BDFL decision for the good 
of the language ecosystem and usage, but not a clear slam-dunk for the 
language itself according to a lot of people.

On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 13:47:43 UTC, Max Goldstein wrote:
>
> If someone was so tenuously commuted to Elm that this syntax removal 
> drives them away, oh well.
>
>
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Max Goldstein]

If someone was so tenuously commuted to Elm that this syntax removal drives 
them away, oh well.

Yes, the Elm language is getting smaller. That's been true for a few releases 
now. Evan is trying to remove hurdles for new users (because we need a lot of 
new users!), not preserve legacy code (Elm is young and inherently easy to 
refactor). 

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

I'd agree with all that - but it was also trivially achievable in 0.17. 
Make no mistake, this is a *reduction* of the Elm language, the gamble 
being that it will result in more new users moving to and sticking with 
Elm, than existing users bailing in favour of some other alternative. I 
suspect it will probably work.



On Tuesday, 15 November 2016 12:15:13 UTC, Witold Szczerba wrote:
>
> I really like the change (getting rid of an exceptional syntax), but 
> what's more important is how other things adapts: see the example 
> provided by Joey:
> >For example, if you want the range [0 .. n] for n in [0 .. k]:
> >
> > Old syntax:
> >   map (\x -> [0 .. x]) [0 .. k]
> > New syntax:
> >   map (Range 0) (Range 0 k)
>
> OK, it's just very simple piece of code, imagine something more 
> sophisticated… You can partially apply a function, but not the range 
> syntax. In functional languages like Elm, the more you have is nothing but 
> a normal function the better, other "building" blocks just get in the way.
>
> Regards,
> Witold Szczerba
>
>
>
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Witold Szczerba]

I really like the change (getting rid of an exceptional syntax), but what's
more important is how other things adapts: see the example provided by Joey:
>For example, if you want the range [0 .. n] for n in [0 .. k]:
>
> Old syntax:
>   map (\x -> [0 .. x]) [0 .. k]
> New syntax:
>   map (Range 0) (Range 0 k)

OK, it's just very simple piece of code, imagine something more
sophisticated… You can partially apply a function, but not the range
syntax. In functional languages like Elm, the more you have is nothing but
a normal function the better, other "building" blocks just get in the way.

Regards,
Witold Szczerba


On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:59 AM, 'Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss <
elm-discuss@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Lists are pretty core, I don't really have a problem with short expressive
> syntax that reads well. 'Well' meaning closer to reading like English. i.e
> I'd never say "I'll drink Bourbon on the range of days from 1 to 3, then
> Scotch on the days that range from day 4 to day 7". No way, it's just
> "Bourbon on days 1-3, Scotch on days 4-7". In other words, when you declare
> a range, the more interesting and important thing you are trying to express
> is what you are doing *with* that range - i.e. what I'm drinking, the
> 'List.Range' clutter waters that down as noise in a lot of cases.
>
> I can see this is probably a 50/50 among users - so although I personally
> will miss it a little bit, I can see how the decision to make it easier for
> newcomers to the language to get started would tip the balance in favor of
> List.Range. After all, 'Lets be mainstream' effectively means 'Let's
> convert people who currently just use JS' so this call must be in pursuit
> of increasing the 'conversion ratio'
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, 14 November 2016 23:14:58 UTC, Joey Eremondi wrote:
>>
>> It's also worth mentioning that adding syntax for something usually
>> indicates that it's a "core" feature.
>>
>> In C-like languages, looping from integers in a range is the key
>> iteration structure. But in Elm, fold and map are much more important. So
>> having special syntax could give beginners the idea that [..] is a primary
>> iteration tool, when it actually comes up in relatively few cases.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Francesco Orsenigo <
>> francesco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yup.
>>> It is just not used often enough to warrant special syntax.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Witold Szczerba
>>>  wrote:
>>> > I think List.range is just fine. No need for special syntax and strange
>>> > function names like ".." (hard to browse, find online, etc.).
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
>>> >> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
>>> >>> empty when a > b.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Perhaps there should be List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1 to solve your
>>> problem.
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> >> "Elm Discuss" group.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an
>>> >> email to elm-discuss...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

Lists are pretty core, I don't really have a problem with short expressive 
syntax that reads well. 'Well' meaning closer to reading like English. i.e 
I'd never say "I'll drink Bourbon on the range of days from 1 to 3, then 
Scotch on the days that range from day 4 to day 7". No way, it's just 
"Bourbon on days 1-3, Scotch on days 4-7". In other words, when you declare 
a range, the more interesting and important thing you are trying to express 
is what you are doing *with* that range - i.e. what I'm drinking, the 
'List.Range' clutter waters that down as noise in a lot of cases.

I can see this is probably a 50/50 among users - so although I personally 
will miss it a little bit, I can see how the decision to make it easier for 
newcomers to the language to get started would tip the balance in favor of 
List.Range. After all, 'Lets be mainstream' effectively means 'Let's 
convert people who currently just use JS' so this call must be in pursuit 
of increasing the 'conversion ratio'




On Monday, 14 November 2016 23:14:58 UTC, Joey Eremondi wrote:
>
> It's also worth mentioning that adding syntax for something usually 
> indicates that it's a "core" feature.
>
> In C-like languages, looping from integers in a range is the key iteration 
> structure. But in Elm, fold and map are much more important. So having 
> special syntax could give beginners the idea that [..] is a primary 
> iteration tool, when it actually comes up in relatively few cases.
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Francesco Orsenigo <
> francesco...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> Yup.
>> It is just not used often enough to warrant special syntax.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Witold Szczerba
>>  wrote:
>> > I think List.range is just fine. No need for special syntax and strange
>> > function names like ".." (hard to browse, find online, etc.).
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة > >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
>> >> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>> >>>
>> >>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
>> >>> empty when a > b.
>> >>>
>> >>> Perhaps there should be List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1 to solve your 
>> problem.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups
>> >> "Elm Discuss" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an
>> >> email to elm-discuss...@googlegroups.com .
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
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>
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Joey Eremondi]

It's also worth mentioning that adding syntax for something usually
indicates that it's a "core" feature.

In C-like languages, looping from integers in a range is the key iteration
structure. But in Elm, fold and map are much more important. So having
special syntax could give beginners the idea that [..] is a primary
iteration tool, when it actually comes up in relatively few cases.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Francesco Orsenigo <
francesco.orsen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yup.
> It is just not used often enough to warrant special syntax.
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Witold Szczerba
>  wrote:
> > I think List.range is just fine. No need for special syntax and strange
> > function names like ".." (hard to browse, find online, etc.).
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
> >> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
> >>
> >>
> >> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
> >>>
> >>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
> >>> empty when a > b.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps there should be List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1 to solve your
> problem.
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "Elm Discuss" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an
> >> email to elm-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Francesco Orsenigo]

Yup.
It is just not used often enough to warrant special syntax.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Witold Szczerba
 wrote:
> I think List.range is just fine. No need for special syntax and strange
> function names like ".." (hard to browse, find online, etc.).
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة 
> wrote:
>>
>> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
>> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
>>
>>
>> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>>>
>>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
>>> empty when a > b.
>>>
>>> Perhaps there should be List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1 to solve your problem.
>>
>> --
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>
>
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Witold Szczerba]

I think List.range is just fine. No need for special syntax and strange
function names like ".." (hard to browse, find online, etc.).

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:29 PM, أحمد حبنكة 
wrote:

> What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing
> List.range with List.(..) operator ?
>
>
> بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>>
>> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be
>> empty when a > b.
>>
>> Perhaps there should be *List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1* to solve your
>> problem.
>>
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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[أحمد حبنكة]

What do you think about my suggestion in previous reply ? replacing 
List.range with List.(..) operator ?

بتاريخ الاثنين، 14 نوفمبر، 2016 2:43:49 ص UTC+2، كتب Max Goldstein:
>
> Sometimes it's useful to pass arguments to List.range and have it be empty 
> when a > b.
>
> Perhaps there should be *List.rangeWithStep 5 1 -1* to solve your problem.
>

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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[أحمد حبنكة]

hmmm I agree, if we want to make it a function though then we can replace 
the `List.range` function with `..` operator and construct ranges like this 
`1..2` (no need for brackets)

This is how it's done in ruby and it's a function :) , the range syntax 
removal is acceptable in this situation but replacing it with `List.range 1 
5` seems liitle bad for me

As for floating points we could remove support for them altogether as I 
don't think anyone would use it anyway, if intervals are needed then a data 
structure other than lists is going to be better.

بتاريخ الأحد، 13 نوفمبر، 2016 9:04:52 م UTC+2، كتب Robin Heggelund Hansen:
>
> Fixing the docs could of course be done, and you're right, it's not 
> something that's hard to understand. However, the question you should be 
> asking is "is there any reason why range isn't  a function to begin with?"
>
> søndag 13. november 2016 16.58.32 UTC+1 skrev أحمد حبنكة følgende:
>>
>>
>>
>> بتاريخ الأحد، 13 نوفمبر، 2016 1:53:05 ص UTC+2، كتب أحمد حبنكة:
>>>
>>> I was reading the elm-dev list and I knew that elm 0.18 removed the 
>>> range syntax, so code like this : 
>>> [2..3]
>>> won't work anymore.
>>>
>>> I want to know what are the foundations behind this decision ?
>>> hmmm if it is "can't find it in the documentation" then fix the 
>>> documentation, when the documentation is unfixable for this feature I think 
>>> it may be better to remove it, was this the case ?  
>>>
>>
>> The syntax of ranges is not specific to haskell, ruby and some other 
>> languages implement it.  
>>
>> Now for the fact that most new coders ask "what's this" or "how do I make 
>> a range" maybe the problem lies in the docs not in the feature itself.  
>>
>> still if it is confusing for most beginners then I agree it's probably 
>> better to remove it although I find hard to believe that this feature is 
>> hard to understand !! 
>>
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

Not really, with familiar symbols, you can construct very unreadable things.


On Sunday, 13 November 2016 22:32:12 UTC, Francesco Orsenigo wrote:
>
> What do you mean with "suits best"? 
> Readability is largely a matter of familiarity. 
>

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[joseph ni]

The _real_ question is why List.Range only increments, List.Range 5 1 = [ ]

On Monday, 14 November 2016 09:32:12 UTC+11, Francesco Orsenigo wrote:
>
> What do you mean with "suits best"? 
> Readability is largely a matter of familiarity. 
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 9:21 AM, 'Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss 
>  wrote: 
> > Simply cause then I can use whichever one suits best, makes the code 
> more 
> > readable etc 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sunday, 13 November 2016 21:47:17 UTC, Francesco Orsenigo wrote: 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Why would you want two different (and entirely equivalent) solutions to 
> >> the same problem? 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 8:37:34 AM UTC+11, Andrew Radford 
> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Yeah It would be great if there was [x..y] and Range 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Francesco Orsenigo]

Why would you want two different (and entirely equivalent) solutions to the 
same problem?


On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 8:37:34 AM UTC+11, Andrew Radford wrote:
>
> Yeah It would be great if there was [x..y] and Range
>
>>
>>>

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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

['Andrew Radford' via Elm Discuss]

Yeah It would be great if there was [x..y] and Range

On Sunday, 13 November 2016 19:04:52 UTC, Robin Heggelund Hansen wrote:
>
> Fixing the docs could of course be done, and you're right, it's not 
> something that's hard to understand. However, the question you should be 
> asking is "is there any reason why range isn't  a function to begin with?"
>
>
>>

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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Robin Heggelund Hansen]

Fixing the docs could of course be done, and you're right, it's not 
something that's hard to understand. However, the question you should be 
asking is "is there any reason why range isn't  a function to begin with?"

søndag 13. november 2016 16.58.32 UTC+1 skrev أحمد حبنكة følgende:
>
>
>
> بتاريخ الأحد، 13 نوفمبر، 2016 1:53:05 ص UTC+2، كتب أحمد حبنكة:
>>
>> I was reading the elm-dev list and I knew that elm 0.18 removed the range 
>> syntax, so code like this : 
>> [2..3]
>> won't work anymore.
>>
>> I want to know what are the foundations behind this decision ?
>> hmmm if it is "can't find it in the documentation" then fix the 
>> documentation, when the documentation is unfixable for this feature I think 
>> it may be better to remove it, was this the case ?  
>>
>
> The syntax of ranges is not specific to haskell, ruby and some other 
> languages implement it.  
>
> Now for the fact that most new coders ask "what's this" or "how do I make 
> a range" maybe the problem lies in the docs not in the feature itself.  
>
> still if it is confusing for most beginners then I agree it's probably 
> better to remove it although I find hard to believe that this feature is 
> hard to understand !! 
>

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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[أحمد حبنكة]

بتاريخ الأحد، 13 نوفمبر، 2016 1:53:05 ص UTC+2، كتب أحمد حبنكة:
>
> I was reading the elm-dev list and I knew that elm 0.18 removed the range 
> syntax, so code like this : 
> [2..3]
> won't work anymore.
>
> I want to know what are the foundations behind this decision ?
> hmmm if it is "can't find it in the documentation" then fix the 
> documentation, when the documentation is unfixable for this feature I think 
> it may be better to remove it, was this the case ?  
>

The syntax of ranges is not specific to haskell, ruby and some other 
languages implement it.  

Now for the fact that most new coders ask "what's this" or "how do I make a 
range" maybe the problem lies in the docs not in the feature itself.  

still if it is confusing for most beginners then I agree it's probably 
better to remove it although I find hard to believe that this feature is 
hard to understand !! 

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Joey Eremondi]

>
> it's also not as flexible as a regular function
>

For example, if you want the range [0 .. n] for n in [0 .. k]:

Old syntax:
  map (\x -> [0 .. x]) [0 .. k]
New syntax:
  map (Range 0) (Range 0 k)

Not much savings in terms of length, but one less lambda, since it turns
into a partial application.

One of the main goals of elm is simplicity: with a small core of features
that are easy for someone to learn. It's much easier to learn all of Elm
than all of Haskell, Java, C#, or even JS. So when we can make the language
smaller with virtually no harm, we do.

There's nothing special about ranges, so they don't get special treatment.
They were there probably only as a leftover from Haskell, and many of those
leftovers have already been removed (i.e. $ and . replaced with <| and <<)
.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Robin Heggelund Hansen <
skinney...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember Evan said that range syntax was one of the things he was asked
> most about from new coders. Not only "what's this?" but also "how do I make
> a range, I couldn't find anything in the documentation."
>
> Then one comes to realize that there are other problems with range syntax.
> In addition to being more syntax to learn, and harder to discover through
> documentation, it's also not as flexible as a regular function. Then you
> also have to ask yourself if you use ranges enough that it actually
> warrants its own syntax.
>
> søndag 13. november 2016 00.53.05 UTC+1 skrev أحمد حبنكة følgende:
>>
>> I was reading the elm-dev list and I knew that elm 0.18 removed the range
>> syntax, so code like this :
>> [2..3]
>> won't work anymore.
>>
>> I want to know what are the foundations behind this decision ?
>>
>> --
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[elm-discuss] Re: Why Range syntax got removed in favor of List.range

[Robin Heggelund Hansen]

I remember Evan said that range syntax was one of the things he was asked 
most about from new coders. Not only "what's this?" but also "how do I make 
a range, I couldn't find anything in the documentation."

Then one comes to realize that there are other problems with range syntax. 
In addition to being more syntax to learn, and harder to discover through 
documentation, it's also not as flexible as a regular function. Then you 
also have to ask yourself if you use ranges enough that it actually 
warrants its own syntax.

søndag 13. november 2016 00.53.05 UTC+1 skrev أحمد حبنكة følgende:
>
> I was reading the elm-dev list and I knew that elm 0.18 removed the range 
> syntax, so code like this : 
> [2..3]
> won't work anymore.
>
> I want to know what are the foundations behind this decision ?
>
>

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