RE: FCC Importation Issue
Yes on two recent occasions. But we were able to get them released - before the steamroller! G From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Don Clayton Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC Importation Issue Has anyone out there had any problems with U.S. Customs holding a product for lack of FCC report or a declartion from a manufacturer that product is indeed compliant? Thanks in advance, Don Clayton ESR Engineering Inc. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: BeCu problem
I worked on a 1 MW, 160 GHz Gyrotron in 1982 that used a diamond waveguide window. Yes diamond is the up-and-coming power electronics material with 50X the thermal conductivity of copper. It is also starting to be used as a protective thinfilm material. Dave Cuthbert From: Fred Townsend [mailto:f...@poasana.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:03 PM To: John Woodgate Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: BeCu problem John, tubes are like vacuum deposition chambers. I have difficulty believing that a fancy form of carbon would be of any use in molded structures, HV, or HVAC. These conditions are all found in radar tubes. Also, thanks to Greggs comment about fancy screw drivers, I remembered that BeCu screw drivers, wrenches, etc. are used by the military in explosive environments because of their no sparking characteristics. Fred Townsend John Woodgate wrote: I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Unity Power Factor
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200301311957.laa25...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: Fluke has a good explanation of the deleterious effects of harmonics. See: http://www.fluke.com/ElectricPower/elec.asp Thank you. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: BeCu problem
John, tubes are like vacuum deposition chambers. I have difficulty believing that a fancy form of carbon would be of any use in molded structures, HV, or HVAC. These conditions are all found in radar tubes. Also, thanks to Greggs comment about fancy screw drivers, I remembered that BeCu screw drivers, wrenches, etc. are used by the military in explosive environments because of their no sparking characteristics. Fred Townsend John Woodgate wrote: I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests
The approach that CSA takes is sensible in that it includes both the long duration overload and high-current short circuit capabilities of the source. Depending on your situation you can end up needing to do one or both of the following: 1. Bond Impedance - run a current equal to 200% of the branch circuit breaker rating through the bonding path for 2 minutes (derived from the I vs. t curves allowed by CSA breaker standards). 2. Bond Limited short-circuit withstand - done at up to 5000A depending on the supply circuit the product will be connected to; this test is performed only when the capacity of the bonding path is in doubt (e.g. pcb traces). Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Regulatory Compliance Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. No really. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:23 AM To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests John - This proposal is based on a North American D1 Deviation to IEC60950, Subclause 2.6.3.3, and is derived from CSA 22.2 No 0.4. I have a product in my lab that this applies to and two more products coming in to which it will also apply. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: John Woodgate There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1 requiring a test of the protective conductor network at *prospective short-circuit current* for the time it takes for the mains circuit protective device to operate. The details are controversial at present, because the test currents appear not to have taken into account the differences between prospective short-circuit currents in different wiring systems and supply voltages. Given that reservation, the lowest test current is 200 A. The amendment is aimed at protective conductors which are surface or internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It is said that such traces have failed in the field under high-current fault conditions. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: single fault conditions
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200301311743.jaa24...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'single fault conditions' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: So, the failure of switching FETs could give rise to both fire and shock, but should not do so if the equipment construction is according to our various safety standards. That was my impression, too. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
FCC Importation Issue
Has anyone out there had any problems with U.S. Customs holding a product for lack of FCC report or a declartion from a manufacturer that product is indeed compliant? Thanks in advance, Don Clayton ESR Engineering Inc. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Country Deviations to IEC 60950
Richard, the national deviations of countries participating in the CB scheme can be found in the CB Bulletin that can be purchased from the IEC. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Richard Meyette [mailto:meye...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:54 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Country Deviations to IEC 60950 Group, I have a question regarding the country deviations to IEC 60950, 3rd Edition. Some of the country specific differences are referenced in the IEC standard as notes to the Subclause. For example, 4.3.6 has notes regarding the testing of direct plug-in equipment in Australia and the United Kingdom. Some of the country differences are not referenced directly in the standard. For example Singapore requires a more stringent humidity conditioning test than the test specified in Subclause 2.9.2., however there is no note that references this deviation. Subclause 1.1.2 (Additional Requirements) only has a note stating that the authorities of some countries impose additional requirements. The country specific deviations for the European Union are documented in EN 60950 (Annex ZB, Special National Conditions), and the US and Canadian deviations are contained in UL60950/CSA C22.2, No. 60950. Some of the IEC standards have a list of the specific country differences in the Forward section of the standard, however IEC 60950 does not. So my question is this. Is there a reference source that contains a list of the country deviations for the rest of the world to IEC 60950? Regards, Richard Meyette This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EN60950 protective conductor test (was Re: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests)
At 12:22 + 31/1/03, John Woodgate wrote: There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1 requiring a test of the protective conductor network at *prospective short-circuit current* for the time it takes for the mains circuit protective device to operate. The details are controversial at present, because the test currents appear not to have taken into account the differences between prospective short-circuit currents in different wiring systems and supply voltages. Given that reservation, the lowest test current is 200 A. The amendment is aimed at protective conductors which are surface or internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It is said that such traces have failed in the field under high-current fault conditions. -- Is the proposal to replace the existing test in the standard or to add an additional test only for certain special circumstances? Is there any evidence that this test would actually result in a significant number of poorly designed products which currently pass the requirements of the standard being rejected? The existing test has its faults but it is easy to do with some very cheap apparatus. It strikes me that the cost of doing a test at 200+A is potentially very substantial. If the result of an amendment to the standard is that significant numbers of self-certified products which have not been properly tested in this aspect of their design reach the market, then the net result will actually be a significant reduction in the safety of end users. A cynic's view might also be that an amendment of this nature would suit the test labs and larger manufacturers fine, since they will be able to justify the cost of the apparatus required, whereas smaller manufacturers (and yes, small consultancy companies like mine) will not. OK, I admit I'm putting two and two together and getting about seven but I believe one should get one's retaliation in first in these circumstances! Any amendment along the lines suggested should be prepared to sacrifice a fair degree of technical accuracy against the need for the test to be cheap, quick and easy to perform. Nowadays, standards writing should not just about getting accuracy and repeatability in testing but should also take into account the need to ensure that the requirements (and hence the tests) are actually possible to apply in the real world, and not just by people at specialist test houses. Regards Nick. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
It is my understanding that such ports ARE included in the scope. Comments from experts on CISPR/I indicate that digital TV tends to have higher emissions than traditional TV signals. The intent of the standard is clearly to limit emissions from cabling structures. Unless test data shows otherwise, I think you're stuck. John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:24 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Unfortunately, EN 55022 is the only available emissions standard for CCTV products used for security applications. Even the standard for professional video equipment, EN55103-1, references EN 55022 as does the generic standard. Perhaps the CISPR ITE committee is not aware that they are affecting a lot of products other than ITE when they make changes to EN55022. Now back to my question about coax connected CCTV equipment. As I read the standard, I am going to have to test these video ports since the coax cables can extend for very large distances. It is just not clear that the authors had this in mind. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:39 AM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE. CISPR 22 does not apply to them. Ghery Pettit Intel From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs having common mode emissions. The standard also includes tests for coax and alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more definitions of interfaces would help, also myself. Clause 6.3: Telecommunications port Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring, ethernet, etc) and similar networks. Note A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std 1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc
Re: Unity Power Factor
Hi John: Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you (personally, of course, not from HP)? Fluke has a good explanation of the deleterious effects of harmonics. See: http://www.fluke.com/ElectricPower/elec.asp Click on Application Notes. This will take you to a registration page which you must complete before you can get to the App Note. After registering, click on In tune with harmonics. This App Note covers a number of effects of harmonic currents that I have not discussed. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
Ground loops John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:33 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports I read in !emc-pstc that david_ster...@ademco.com wrote (in 2DF7C54A75B dd311b61700508b64231002c5b...@nyhqex1.ademconet.com) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, How does a safety hazard arise? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
I read in !emc-pstc that Wagner, John P (John) johnwag...@avaya.com wrote (in 4203D61676D0AE468AA5CEA90A891C1302A01467@cof110avexu4.global. avaya.com) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: By the way, CISPR/F has nothing whatsoever to do with ITE. It is CISPR/I and formerly CISPR/G OOPS Yes, you are quite right. I didn't notice the typo. I meant to type G, but I is now the correct reference. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com) about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: How can a ferrite clamp be called a CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device? It reduces EM radiation by reducing the current through the antenna, not by absorbing RF. It could, however, be called a CMAD Common Mode Attenuation Device. It is *meant* to absorb the energy in a lossy filter. However, it has been incredibly badly specified by CISPR/F, AIUI. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
GR-1089 does allow a get-out for intra-building surges for STP if grounded at both ends of the STP cable. Some customers still insist that intra-building Surges are applied to the conductors regardless of the cable type, STP or UTP. [We 'design in' Intra-building surge protection (as a mimimum) for all our interfaces, ENET, T1, RS232 etc] Andy White, Staff EMC Engineer Ericsson Wireless Communications Inc. San Diego, CA 92121 Tel 858 332 6214 / 877 877 7799 ext 26214 Fax 858 332 7311 e-mail andy.wh...@ewu.ericsson.se From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:21 AM To: ieee pstc list Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports David Sterner wrote: UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. Telcordia GR-1089 exempts STP from intrabuilding surges; the shield is assumed to carry them. This makes it attractive for US telecom designers whose equipment uses Ethernet. Cortland This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: BeCu problem
I read in !emc-pstc that don_borow...@selinc.com wrote (in ofc54f7ba7.cab7254d-on88256cbf.0051d...@selinc.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: I have seen stainless steel used as battery contacts. The contacts developed an oxide on them that made it difficult to get power from the battery. Seems to me that some plating could solve that problem however. OTOH, I have never found any problem with *magnetic* stainless steel. But nickel plate does cause film interface problems, particularly for 1.5 V or 3 V supplies. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BCE@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: The standard also includes tests for coax and alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments? In Europe, EN 55103-1 would apply to such professional video systems. EN 55022 is NOT the only standard in the Universe. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: BeCu problem
Good point John - then we can justify the $5,000 screwdriver. Gregg From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:35 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: BeCu problem I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
Dave Cuthbert wrote The nick name for MFJ is Mighty Fine Junk. Yes it is -- or has been. But I'll jump in here to add that while I've in the past often been underwhelmed by the quality of some MFJ equipment, I was favorably impressed with my MFJ-259B. And it is quite useful. I have one of the Autek devices as well, but I prefer the MFJ 259 for test use. This may be because my Autek is the low-end model, lacking some capabilities the MFJ has. Autek does make a more functional model, and their analyzers are MUCH smaller and lighter than MFJ's. Cortland This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Proposed new EMC Directive.
Ian, I recommend that you visit the European Commission's EMC web site: http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/index.htm You will find a guide that describes the file requirements and your obligations for reselling a private branded product. The basic requirements are not going to change with the revised directive. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: White, Ian [mailto:ianwh...@spiraxsarco.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:34 AM To: IEEE Forum (E-mail) Subject: Proposed new EMC Directive. Hi everyone. We have been working through consequences of the New Proposed Emc Directive. As we are not a large electronics company so we will not be able to quote all the standards we quoted today as we don't use equipment detailed in that said standard. The new directive states we will have to establish technical documentation which enables conformity to be assed, which would include design and manufacturing information as well as test results. No doubt detailing the instrumentation used as well. This is going to make for a very large file for each product. There is also the point, that we buy in products and put the Spirax label on it. Upto this point we have excepted a suppliers D of C. Across the company this a large number of products. We would be left assessing if a supplier was complying by reading his technicial documentation. The amount of paperwork this would entail is a bit overpowering to think about. Have we been reading the Proposed EMC Directive correctly ? Thanks Ian
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
Unfortunately, EN 55022 is the only available emissions standard for CCTV products used for security applications. Even the standard for professional video equipment, EN55103-1, references EN 55022 as does the generic standard. Perhaps the CISPR ITE committee is not aware that they are affecting a lot of products other than ITE when they make changes to EN55022. Now back to my question about coax connected CCTV equipment. As I read the standard, I am going to have to test these video ports since the coax cables can extend for very large distances. It is just not clear that the authors had this in mind. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:39 AM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE. CISPR 22 does not apply to them. Ghery Pettit Intel From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs having common mode emissions. The standard also includes tests for coax and alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more definitions of interfaces would help, also myself. Clause 6.3: Telecommunications port Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring, ethernet, etc) and similar networks. Note A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std 1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back
RMCEMC Bonus Feb Meeting Reminder
To all interested parties: Announcing the RMCEMC Bonus February Meeting Presenter: Colin Brench, HP Principal Member of technical Staff (Bio) Date : Feb 5th 2003 Location : Front Range Community College, Westminster Colorado. Room Timberline (S117) Times : 5:30 -6:30 Social Hour at the Community College Cafeteria. 6:45 : Assemble at the room 7:00- 9:00 Presentations What we will see: Antenna Behavior and Use - (What Really goes on during a test?!) Understanding EMI Shield Behavior in Real Product Environments If you intend to come: Please email Mat Aschenberg at matt.aschenb...@echostar.com so that we can get an approximate number of attendees. Thank you Best Regards Charles Grasso Senior Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
David Sterner wrote: UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. Telcordia GR-1089 exempts STP from intrabuilding surges; the shield is assumed to carry them. This makes it attractive for US telecom designers whose equipment uses Ethernet. Cortland This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ISM Equip
Hi Bill, Can you let me know which type of ISM equipment you need info on? For Medical equipment there are requirements but not Scientific. Industrial depends. Thanks, Kind Regards, Tian Wang-Mendez / Sr. Program Manager EMC Compliance Management Group 670 National Avenue, Mountain View, CA 94043 ISO 17025 Accredited Lab * Tel (650) 988-0900 x186 * Fax (650) 988-6647 * Email: twmen...@emclab2000.com *http://www.emclab2000.com _ - EMC Compliance Management Group is a globally recognized test laboratory for a broad range of compliance activity testing and certified according to ISO 17025, ISO 9002, EN 45001. - Perform CCC/MII (Mainland China), RRL/MIC (South Korea), AS/NZS 3548 (A/C-Tick), BSMI / DGT, VCCI, CE, FCC/Canada, UL/CSA, CB Scheme, ETSI and Bluetooth™. _ - Original Message - From: Bill Wilson mailto:wwwil...@rcn.com To: Treggers mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:37 AM Subject: ISM Equip Treggers, I understand there are compulsory safety and EMC requirements for ITE in Korea. What about ISM equipment? Bill Bill Wilson W.W.Wilson Associates 508-651-1388 wwwil...@rcn.com www.wwwilsonassoc.com
Re: Unity Power Factor
Hi John: Yes, delta-wye distribution transformer overheating does occur due to the circulation and dissipation of the triplen harmonics in the primary (delta) winding. Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you (personally, of course, not from HP)? Actually, I learned this and other facts about harmonics from my participation, some years ago, in the CBEMA (now ITIC) ESC-3 committee. The minutes of those meetings (whereever they may be) would support my assertions. My understanding of the European situation is that up to 600 homes could be on one distribution transformer, and that the power is distributed as three phases with one neutral. The cumulation of harmonics on such a system would indeed tend to flat-top the voltage waveform for those homes that are far from the transformer. Also, the harmonics would tend to overheat the primary of the distribution transformer, the failure of which would cause a much larger outage than in North America. Likewise, in Europe, within commercial and industrial sites, the distribution transformer is comparatively large, and supplies a very much greater load. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Country Deviations to IEC 60950
Group, I have a question regarding the country deviations to IEC 60950, 3rd Edition. Some of the country specific differences are referenced in the IEC standard as notes to the Subclause. For example, 4.3.6 has notes regarding the testing of direct plug-in equipment in Australia and the United Kingdom. Some of the country differences are not referenced directly in the standard. For example Singapore requires a more stringent humidity conditioning test than the test specified in Subclause 2.9.2., however there is no note that references this deviation. Subclause 1.1.2 (Additional Requirements) only has a note stating that the authorities of some countries impose additional requirements. The country specific deviations for the European Union are documented in EN 60950 (Annex ZB, Special National Conditions), and the US and Canadian deviations are contained in UL60950/CSA C22.2, No. 60950. Some of the IEC standards have a list of the specific country differences in the Forward section of the standard, however IEC 60950 does not. So my question is this. Is there a reference source that contains a list of the country deviations for the rest of the world to IEC 60950? Regards, Richard Meyette This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: single fault conditions
Hi John: The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers; Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could arise. In the case of switching FETs, the power dissipated in the FET resistance can raise the encapsulent material to ignition temperature in which case it will burn until consumed or until the power to the FET is cut off. (While the encapsulent material is flame-retardant, flame-retardant materials burn as long as thermal energy is applied to the material.) Depending on the specific construction, the flame from the burning encapsulent material could ignite nearby materials. However, the standards do not allow non-flame-retardant material near mains circuits and, ipso facto, near switching FETs. The thermal energy from an overheated switching FET may damage basic insulation -- such as the insulation between the FET and its heat sink. Heat sinks are either connected to one side of the mains, or are connected to ground. If connected to ground, the connection should meet the requirements for a protective ground. So, the failure of switching FETs could give rise to both fire and shock, but should not do so if the equipment construction is according to our various safety standards. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Tektronix AM503 question
LO - internal backup battery weak 50 - not listed 81 - not listed if the error was actually 580, the amp was not able to complete a probe offsett adjustment. Make sure the probe jaws are completly closed. the firmware for my units only displays error codes 260. Brian -Original Message- From: brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com [ mailto:brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:19 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Tektronix AM503 question Does anyone out there have a service manual for a Tektronix AM503A current probe amplifier? I need to know what error code 50 followed by LO followed by 81 means.
RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests
John - This proposal is based on a North American D1 Deviation to IEC60950, Subclause 2.6.3.3, and is derived from CSA 22.2 No 0.4. I have a product in my lab that this applies to and two more products coming in to which it will also apply. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: John Woodgate There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1 requiring a test of the protective conductor network at *prospective short-circuit current* for the time it takes for the mains circuit protective device to operate. The details are controversial at present, because the test currents appear not to have taken into account the differences between prospective short-circuit currents in different wiring systems and supply voltages. Given that reservation, the lowest test current is 200 A. The amendment is aimed at protective conductors which are surface or internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It is said that such traces have failed in the field under high-current fault conditions. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: single fault conditions
The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers; Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could arise. For example, at a previous employer, I observed several instances of FETs (in a 3kVA instrument) exploding and sending molten metal (mostly from the leads and the lead's solder pads) through chassis vents, that subsequently caused the surrounding cheesecloth to ignite. FET body parts punched holes through insulation. Was actually a fun series of tests... The Ugly: Safety testing results in design corrections that do not increase product safety. So would it be legitimate to over-drive the gate, forcing short circuit current to flow through the FET, but not to apply a mechanical short across the component? Experiences comments are appreciated. Doesn't the gate-to-drain short simulate this reasonably well? No sir, not in my experience. The (externally applied) G-S s/c tends to wipe out the gate-drive circuit FET, in 2mSec, by placing the bus voltage (typically 300 to 450 Vdc) on gate. If the design does not isolate the controller circuit, all of the logic-level stuff dies a quick, glorious death... If the gate drive ckt fails in a latched-up mode, the FET may survive for a relatively long time, may tens of input cycles, or perhaps 30min, if the FET is not part of the high-side main converter, and the design provides only secondary-side current limiting. R/S, Brian
Re: BeCu problem
Hi Jan, In addition to health aspects, BeCu is incompatible with most enclosure materials and coatings (to prevent rust and corrosion) used in equipment. After a couple of weeks a BeCu finger in contact with a chassis will leave a black smudge, the corrosion byproducts resulting from the battery that is formed. BeCu gaskets must be coated with an appropriate plating and not used bare. That little chart of available platinge on the back page of the gasket catalog is the most important part of the document! Doug Jan Vercammen wrote: Hello EMC/PSTC-list, I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is not a direct EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in the EMC shielding of our products. I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the rest-of-the world) as the material for shielding gaskets and fingers. ...deleted for brevity -- ___ _ Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 = Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o |Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
David, Where in article 3.6 of CISPR 22 is the term multi-user used? Also, please keep in mind that the ferrite clamps are used only for testing radiated emissions from table top EUTs. This telecom port conducted emissions issue (hence the need for article 3.6) is entirely separate. Ghery From: david_ster...@ademco.com [mailto:david_ster...@ademco.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:35 AM To: ghery.pet...@intel.com; gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Ghery - Ethernet on coax (10Base2) is indeed multi-user. Calling Ethernet/FE on twisted pair 'multi-user' ignores the fact each cable conect two and only two units. Hub/switch ports receive the signal, then reconstitute the signal before re-transmitting to the next unit. With EN55022:1998 +A:2000's ferrites, STP CAT-5 ironically will look cleaner than UTP CAT-5, (ferrites attenuate PC-to-hub common mode). UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. In effect, spec writers 'stack the deck' in favor of STP. Hmmm. Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, but that is EN60950, not EN55022. David From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:27 PM To: 'Gary McInturff'; Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Gary, Unfortunately, Article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 states: 3.6 telecommunication ports Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunication networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, Token Ring) and similar networks. Ethernet is specifically called out as a telecommunication port in the definition. Rats! Ghery From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:20 PM To: Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Glad to hear this! Ethernet lines are interconnection of ITE components and not telecommunications cables. Asbestos shorts on - fire away. Gary From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:45 AM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, Further clarification to this question was provided by the addition of the following note at the end of article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 as part of Amendment 2 which was published in October of last year. NOTE A port generally intended for interconnection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS-232, IEEE Standard 1284 (parallel printer), Universal Serial Bus (USB), IEEE Standard 1394 (Fire Wire), etc.) and used in accordance with its functional specifications (e.g. for the maximum length of cable connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition. I haven't seen an EN version of this amendment yet, but CENELEC should be coming with it one of these days. You can purchase a copy of the entire amendment, which adds information on multifunction equipment, from the IEC web page at http://www.iec.ch . Ghery Pettit Intel From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks. Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not included? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel
Proposed new EMC Directive.
Hi everyone. We have been working through consequences of the New Proposed Emc Directive. As we are not a large electronics company so we will not be able to quote all the standards we quoted today as we don't use equipment detailed in that said standard. The new directive states we will have to establish technical documentation which enables conformity to be assed, which would include design and manufacturing information as well as test results. No doubt detailing the instrumentation used as well. This is going to make for a very large file for each product. There is also the point, that we buy in products and put the Spirax label on it. Upto this point we have excepted a suppliers D of C. Across the company this a large number of products. We would be left assessing if a supplier was complying by reading his technicial documentation. The amount of paperwork this would entail is a bit overpowering to think about. Have we been reading the Proposed EMC Directive correctly ? Thanks Ian __ DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the original addressee(s). Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended original recipient(s), any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please immediately contact the sender by return email or telephone Spirax Sarco Ltd on +44(0)1242 521361. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and you have received it through forwarding or in error you should delete it and make no copies. We have taken all reasonable steps to protect files from viruses, but do not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are virus free. You should take full responsibility for virus checking. Thank you. Company Reg No : 509018 Reg Office : Spirax Sarco Ltd, 130-132 St Georges Rd, Cheltenham, UK __
Re: BeCu problem
I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
I read in !emc-pstc that david_ster...@ademco.com wrote (in 2DF7C54A75B dd311b61700508b64231002c5b...@nyhqex1.ademconet.com) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003: Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, How does a safety hazard arise? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
Richard, Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE. CISPR 22 does not apply to them. Ghery Pettit Intel From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs having common mode emissions. The standard also includes tests for coax and alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more definitions of interfaces would help, also myself. Clause 6.3: Telecommunications port Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring, ethernet, etc) and similar networks. Note A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std 1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
As the requirements for conducted emissions on telecom ports developed, definitions changed repeatedly -- all intended to describe the same cabling. At one point, extensive networks was used which I think better describes the situation. However, then the question is What is extensive? Also, the use of telecom is confusing, at least in North America. The emphasis here is on tele and hence telecom networks are telephone networks. In CISPR however, telecom networks are communication networks that may involve voice. There are many who will disagree with this, hence the problem in the first place. To me the situation is pretty clear and the standard does an adequate job of defining what it means, by example. You are expected to use common sense and judgment in determining the applicablity to your cabling system. Engineering judgment is still expected from those qapplying the standard. By the way, CISPR/F has nothing whatsoever to do with ITE. It is CISPR/I and formerly CISPR/G John P. Wagner Regulatory Compliance Mandatory Standards AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory 1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16 Westminster, CO 80234-2726 Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241 johnwag...@avaya.com From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:55 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BB4@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks. Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not included? Yes, well, CISPR/F (responsible for the underlying CISPR 22 standard) should have a *functioning* editing committee with enough experience and insight to weed out such phrases. List of examples are always troublesome in one way or another, and in any case MUST not be 'unterminated', by ending in 'etc.' or 'and similar', etc. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Tektronix AM503 question
Does anyone out there have a service manual for a Tektronix AM503A current probe amplifier? I need to know what error code 50 followed by LO followed by 81 means. Thanks in advance, Brent DeWitt This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs having common mode emissions. The standard also includes tests for coax and alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more definitions of interfaces would help, also myself. Clause 6.3: Telecommunications port Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring, ethernet, etc) and similar networks. Note A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std 1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
The MFJ-259B is available from MFJ Enterprises, a ham radio accessory company. The nick name for MFJ is Mighty Fine Junk. Autek also makes a similar device although I haven't tried one. The MFJ-259B SWR analyzer is basically a handheld impedance meter. It's also good for checking the input Z of Bicons and such. The MFJ-269 provides a look at 470 MHz. http://www.mfjenterprises.com/index.php Dave Cuthbert From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:14 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000 I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com) about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: And I have used an MFJ-259B (only $260) to measure ferrites from 1.7 to 170 MHz. What is an MFJ-259B and where can I buy one? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: BeCu problem
Jan - Both Be and BeO pose health risks. While I can't point to anything to support the claim, BeCu will probably become a part of the product take back/recycling. I did text searches of the WEEE and the RoHS Directives and found no mention of Be in any form. Be and its compounds are looked at under the various voluntary ecological programs. Many of my eco links are dead, but you can refer to http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/beryllium/ for the US position. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Jan Vercammen Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:04 PM Hello EMC/PSTC-list, I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is not a direct EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in the EMC shielding of our products. I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the rest-of-the world) as the material for shielding gaskets and fingers. The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is classified as an carcinogen and it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium disease). Note that this is only the case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also received conflicting information that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is used as an electronic packaging material. Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health hazard when used as a shielding part in our products, but are (or could be) hazardeous during manufacturing and recycling. I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more, but one can not provide me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I have also been told that we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts. However, personally I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the following questions: -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous substance and that they will be abolished from electronic equipment? -2- if question 1 is correct, what is then the exact argument for not using BeCu?? -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state that BeCu (as a finished product) cannot be used anymore and by which date??? -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)??? Kind regards, Jan Vercammen Agfa-Gevaert NV Mortsel, Belgium This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
How can a ferrite clamp be called a CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device? It reduces EM radiation by reducing the current through the antenna, not by absorbing RF. It could, however, be called a CMAD Common Mode Attenuation Device. Dave Cuthbert From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:12 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000 I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmoeelchaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: The official name is CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device. (before John makes one himself ;)) You mean me? And do you mean before I make a name for the device or before I make a DIY device itself? I don't plan to do that at present, but you never know. The discussion in the UK committee leads me to think that the 'MAD' part is apt. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: BeCu problem
I have seen stainless steel used as battery contacts. The contacts developed an oxide on them that made it difficult to get power from the battery. Seems to me that some plating could solve that problem however. There are no good substitues for BeO in all applications. AlN is better than alumina, but not as good as BeO. If the application needs a simple flat insulator to conduct heat, and is small, diamond is a wonderful material - better heat conductivity than copper! Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 01/31/2003 12:38:19 AM Please respond to Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To:Jan Vercammen jan.vercamm...@agfa.com cc:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: BeCu problem I can't help you with the regulations but I can clarify the usage of Beryllium a bit. When Beryllium is added to copper it makes it very hard. It is used in gaskets to make them springy. Stainless steel is a poor substitute because it lacks both the electrical and thermal conductivity. So far as I know there is no handling hazard unless you saw or grind it. Beryllium oxide BeO has similar restrictions on grinding. I don't know if it can be sawed. It would probably take a diamond blade in a liquid bath to have a chance at sawing. BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Fred Townsend Jan Vercammen wrote: Hello EMC/PSTC-list, I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is not a direct EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in the EMC shielding of our products. I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the rest-of-the world) as the material for shielding gaskets and fingers. The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is classified as an carcinogen and it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium disease). Note that this is only the case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also received conflicting information that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is used as an electronic packaging material. Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health hazard when used as a shielding part in our products, but are (or could be) hazardeous during manufacturing and recycling. I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more, but one can not provide me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I have also been told that we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts. However, personally I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the following questions: -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous substance and that they will be abolished from electronic equipment? -2- if question 1 is correct, what is then the exact argument for not using BeCu?? -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state that BeCu (as a finished product) cannot be used anymore and by which date??? -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)??? Kind regards, Jan Vercammen Agfa-Gevaert NV Mortsel, Belgium This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Helmholtz article
See the May 2002 issue From: drcuthbert [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:55 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Helmholtz article Here is the link to the Conformity magazine article: Magnetic Field Calibration: Unwinding The Helmholtz Coil, by Isidor Straus http://www.conformity.com/featurearticlesarchive.html#June%202002 I used the formulas in this article to design and build an active ELF loop antenna. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Unity Power Factor
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200301292324.paa09...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: Yes, delta-wye distribution transformer overheating does occur due to the circulation and dissipation of the triplen harmonics in the primary (delta) winding. Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you (personally, of course, not from HP)? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Unity Power Factor
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in 200301301638.iaa15...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: As Ken Javor described, in the USA, voltage distortion is largely a local (privately-owned wiring) premises problem due to excessive series resistance between the load and the point where the utility connects to the local premises wiring. Voltage distortion at the point where the utility (public network) connects to the local premises wiring is rare. Thank you. This is all good stuff. I wish it had been available some years ago. We've never succeeded in getting such clear and definite statements about the US experience previously. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
FW: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI
Forwarding for Pauline, please reply to her. Jim From: Pauline Rodela [mailto:paul...@midcom.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI Hello, I obtained your name and email from the IEEE EMC Society Directors listing at http://www.ieee.org and was wondering if you could be of any assistance in helping me find a candidate for the below position. I have a 6 month contract position open in Grand Rapids, MI for an Engineer to create an emanation analysis for an airborne computer to meet TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements. To be considered, the following requirements must be met: · Secret security clearance (Used within the last 2 years) · Familiar with National Security Telecommunications and Information Systems Security Advisory (NSTISSAM) TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements · Familiar with DoD Instruction 5200.40, DoD Information Technology Security Certification and Accreditation Process (DITSCAP) · Must be familiar with Emission Security (EMSEC) countermeasure implementations · Will work with the customer to establish Smiths role in the System Security Authorization Agreement (SSAA) and create a plan to meet requirements · Must be able to perform an emanation analysis, which will form a part of the customer's System Security Authorization Agreement If you would like to be submitted or would know of anyone else who might be, please reply with an updated resume and contact Pauline at (714) 579-3000 x259. Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon! Hope you have a wonderful day! ^_^ Pauline Rodela Technical Recruiter MIDCOM CORPORATION Voice: (714) 579-3000, Ext. 259 Fax: (714) 459-7055 http://www.midcom.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmoeelchaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: The official name is CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device. (before John makes one himself ;)) You mean me? And do you mean before I make a name for the device or before I make a DIY device itself? I don't plan to do that at present, but you never know. The discussion in the UK committee leads me to think that the 'MAD' part is apt. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: single fault conditions
I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58 40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault conditions' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: Yes sir, this is another thing I've wondered about; i.e., simulating the big bus cap (short) SFC by applying a mechanical short accross the terminals. Does not really demonstrate what would occur if the cap itself fails. A blown electrolytic can be very messy. I am beginning to wonder about some of the testing that I perform that the agencies think is really great stuff... This subject should be studied by the TC108 team preparing the standard that will replace IEC 60950 and IEC 60065. However, at this time, there seems to be no specialist team assigned to studying the subject of realistic fault simulation. There is a meeting of the team next month. Maybe this subject should be discussed. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Translations: Chinese to English
I read in !emc-pstc that Collins, Jeffrey jcoll...@ciena.com wrote (in 1d4e6e0235bdf84bb58bace5086d9c518...@wntcsdexg03.oni.com) about 'Translations: Chinese to English' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: Can you recommend a company or individual who is competent ( and reasonable $$$ ) in translating technical documents from Mandarin Chinese into English. I'm also seeking someone capable of translating technical documents from English to Portuguese or Mandarin Chinese to Portuguese. Preferably looking for a west coast entity but it is not required. I suggest you post your enquiry on the newsgroup: sci.lang.translation.marketplace -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Unity Power Factor
I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote (in 0h9j008afer...@mtaout03.icomcast.net) about 'Unity Power Factor' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: Yes I am in the US so clearly I must have been mistaken. Seriously, when that business started in 1989 there were relatively few PCs in use there. PC cubes were scattered throughout the building that people could use on an as-needed basis. By 1995, every engineer's cube had a PC running all day long. Yes, a similar thing happened in Europe. It was this *rapid* expansion of PC deployment that frightened the European electricity suppliers. They coped earlier with the far more gradual development of the TV park, first persuading the TV manufacturers to give up half-wave rectifiers and subsequently to control the harmonic emissions of very large sets. They extrapolated the effects of the rapid expansion of PCs (and simultaneous use of more than one TV per household) and deduced that widespread system failures would occur in a few (5?) years (counting from about 1989) if the emissions remained controlled only by the Class A limits of IEC/EN60555-2. Hence the invention of 'Class D' and all the ensuing grief. It has now been shown pretty convincingly that the extrapolations were very pessimistic. The latest European supply industry predictions, based on voltage distortion growth levels of the past decade of 0.1% absolute per year (by 'absolute', I mean a growth from, say, 4% to 4.1% at a a particular site, not from 4% to 100.1% of 4%!), is that unacceptable levels of supply disturbance will occur in 10 years time. However, there are several reasons why that 0.1% growth rate will not be maintained over that time period, not least the effect of IEC/EN 61000-3-2 itself, which will not be reliably measurable, in Europe, until 2005 at the earliest. It would have been interesting, in retrospect, to have taken line voltage oscillographs at representative locations as the PC density increased. Yes, it would have. I have about a 20 year gap in observations of the mains waveform here in UK, from about 1971 to 1991, when I heard about Class D and started to study the subject closely. During that time, the flat tops developed. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000
I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com) about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: And I have used an MFJ-259B (only $260) to measure ferrites from 1.7 to 170 MHz. What is an MFJ-259B and where can I buy one? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BB4@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks. Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not included? Yes, well, CISPR/F (responsible for the underlying CISPR 22 standard) should have a *functioning* editing committee with enough experience and insight to weed out such phrases. List of examples are always troublesome in one way or another, and in any case MUST not be 'unterminated', by ending in 'etc.' or 'and similar', etc. (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests
I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com wrote (in nebbkemlgllmjofmoplekehbedaa.peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com) about 'Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: John - That impedance value is suprisingly high, It applies to 230 V 50 Hz systems only. SC77A/WG2 has been given a too limited amount of data on 120 V 60 Hz systems to deduce a reference value, but it seems to be rather less than half the 230 V value, because permitted voltage tolerances in 120 V systems tend to be +/-5%, less than in Europe (6 to 10%). but tends to support the contention that the fault current at an outlet will be much lower than was suggested (65kA, which, to me, appeared more like a peak surge current than a fault current). Yes, 65 kA is way too high. For those interested, below are what the IEC Web Store has to say about IEC 60725. Title: Considerations on reference impedances for use in determining the disturbance characteristics of household appliances and similar electrical equipment Abstract: Records the information that was available and the factors that were taken into account in arriving at the reference impedance of 0.4+ j 0.25 ohm which has been incorporated in IEC 60555. Has the status of a technical report. A revision is under way. Postpone your buying decision.(;-) It doesn't alter the reference impedance but adds information of calculating the impedances of (particularly) higher-current services, applicable to any system voltage and permitted voltage variation. 0.5 Ohm seems large for a flexible cord. 0.5 ohms is 0.2 ohm total for the two conductors of the flexible plus 0.3 ohm total for the two conductors of the feed to the wall socket. All in a 230 V system. It's just an example. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: single fault conditions
I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58 40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault conditions' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003: The environment being considered is a switching power supply. The technique that safety agencies use to simulate a SFC on a power FET does not seem, IMHO, to simulate the actual failure mode of the device. To wit: when the mosfet fails short, it blows itself open; so the amount of current sucked out of mains, e.g., the PFC FET, would probably open the component after a few input cycles. But if I apply a direct mechanical short (source to drain), current is being forced to flow until the fuse blows, or until some series trace or component opens. Agreed. The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers; Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could arise. but if the FET itself does not provide the short circuit, we will never know Indeed: the external short-circuit doesn't simulate the device failure. The Good: providing a continuous (mechanical) short will reveal if there are other components in the current path that could be cause the unit to fail in an unsafe mode. Agreed. Although, according to QA records, these components have never failed, so it can be both demonstrated by design equations and empirical evidence that the SFC test does necessarily demonstrate anything relevant... The Ugly: Safety testing results in design corrections that do not increase product safety. So would it be legitimate to over-drive the gate, forcing short circuit current to flow through the FET, but not to apply a mechanical short across the component? Experiences comments are appreciated. Doesn't the gate-to-drain short simulate this reasonably well? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: single fault conditions
I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58 40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault conditions' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: I am also concerned that there are products on the market, tested in good faith, that would be unsafe for a more probable SFC, that would not be tested for, in accordance with existing standards. If you find the existing standards inadequate, bring your proposals for new tests to your national standards committee for onward transmission to IEC. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: UK DTI applying generic standard to test hair dryer for conformity
I read in !emc-pstc that Paul Chan ncc...@tuvps.com.hk wrote (in 006901c2c801$82c70a00$27086...@tuvglobal.com) about 'UK DTI applying generic standard to test hair dryer for conformity' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003: I have read a news regarding on 3 Sept 02, UK Department of Trade Industry (DTI) applied EMC Generic standard EN50081-1 Radiated Emission to test for compliance on a AC Hair dryer, which claimed to interfere TV reception. The hair dryer failed the test and the importer was prosecuted by violation of EMC Directive. You will find more information on this case at: http://www.compliance-club.org if you follow links. The press reports were not entirely accurate. There were safety issues **as well as a lack of co-operation by the manufacturer**. Should the product be covered by EN55014-1 already? Please comment. Yes, what has been shown is that the standard is inadequate, since it does not control emissions in the UHF TV bands. Steps are being taken to deal with this. However, anyone who markets a hair-dryer that clearly interferes with TV is not exactly sensible, do you think? It isn't as if you need a test- house to find that problem! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Helmholtz article
Here is the link to the Conformity magazine article: Magnetic Field Calibration: Unwinding The Helmholtz Coil, by Isidor Straus http://www.conformity.com/featurearticlesarchive.html#June%202002 I used the formulas in this article to design and build an active ELF loop antenna. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports
Ghery - Ethernet on coax (10Base2) is indeed multi-user. Calling Ethernet/FE on twisted pair 'multi-user' ignores the fact each cable conect two and only two units. Hub/switch ports receive the signal, then reconstitute the signal before re-transmitting to the next unit. With EN55022:1998 +A:2000's ferrites, STP CAT-5 ironically will look cleaner than UTP CAT-5, (ferrites attenuate PC-to-hub common mode). UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. In effect, spec writers 'stack the deck' in favor of STP. Hmmm. Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, but that is EN60950, not EN55022. David From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:27 PM To: 'Gary McInturff'; Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Gary, Unfortunately, Article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 states: 3.6 telecommunication ports Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunication networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, Token Ring) and similar networks. Ethernet is specifically called out as a telecommunication port in the definition. Rats! Ghery From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:20 PM To: Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Glad to hear this! Ethernet lines are interconnection of ITE components and not telecommunications cables. Asbestos shorts on - fire away. Gary From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:45 AM To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports Richard, Further clarification to this question was provided by the addition of the following note at the end of article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 as part of Amendment 2 which was published in October of last year. NOTE A port generally intended for interconnection of components of an ITE system under test (e.g. RS-232, IEEE Standard 1284 (parallel printer), Universal Serial Bus (USB), IEEE Standard 1394 (Fire Wire), etc.) and used in accordance with its functional specifications (e.g. for the maximum length of cable connected to it), is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition. I haven't seen an EN version of this amendment yet, but CENELEC should be coming with it one of these days. You can purchase a copy of the entire amendment, which adds information on multifunction equipment, from the IEC web page at http://www.iec.ch . Ghery Pettit Intel From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks. Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not included? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: request sources for UL and/or IEC accessibility probe (test finger)
Paul, Try this place. A good place to do business. http://www.productsafet.com/pages/main.html Scott Douglas Senior Compliance Engineer Narad Networks 515 Groton Road Westford, MA 01886 phone: 978 589-1869 dougl...@naradnetworks.com www.naradnetworks.com http://www.naradnetworks.com/ At 05:21 PM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: Folks What sources are out there to purchase an articulated UL and/or IEC accessibility probe (test finger) from the various UL, IEC and other product safety standards. An example is shown in Annex B of EN61010-1 Thanks for your help. Regards , Paul J Smith Teradyne, Boston This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: BeCu problem
I can't help you with the regulations but I can clarify the usage of Beryllium a bit. When Beryllium is added to copper it makes it very hard. It is used in gaskets to make them springy. Stainless steel is a poor substitute because it lacks both the electrical and thermal conductivity. So far as I know there is no handling hazard unless you saw or grind it. Beryllium oxide BeO has similar restrictions on grinding. I don't know if it can be sawed. It would probably take a diamond blade in a liquid bath to have a chance at sawing. BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina). There is no real substitute for BeO at high power levels. It is still used by the Military in high power radar applications such as tubes. Fred Townsend Jan Vercammen wrote: Hello EMC/PSTC-list, I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is not a direct EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in the EMC shielding of our products. I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the rest-of-the world) as the material for shielding gaskets and fingers. The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is classified as an carcinogen and it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium disease). Note that this is only the case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also received conflicting information that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is used as an electronic packaging material. Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health hazard when used as a shielding part in our products, but are (or could be) hazardeous during manufacturing and recycling. I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more, but one can not provide me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I have also been told that we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts. However, personally I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the following questions: -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous substance and that they will be abolished from electronic equipment? -2- if question 1 is correct, what is then the exact argument for not using BeCu?? -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state that BeCu (as a finished product) cannot be used anymore and by which date??? -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)??? Kind regards, Jan Vercammen Agfa-Gevaert NV Mortsel, Belgium --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
BeCu problem
Hello EMC/PSTC-list, I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is not a direct EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in the EMC shielding of our products. I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the rest-of-the world) as the material for shielding gaskets and fingers. The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is classified as an carcinogen and it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium disease). Note that this is only the case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also received conflicting information that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is used as an electronic packaging material. Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health hazard when used as a shielding part in our products, but are (or could be) hazardeous during manufacturing and recycling. I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more, but one can not provide me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I have also been told that we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts. However, personally I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the following questions: -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous substance and that they will be abolished from electronic equipment? -2- if question 1 is correct, what is then the exact argument for not using BeCu?? -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state that BeCu (as a finished product) cannot be used anymore and by which date??? -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)??? Kind regards, Jan Vercammen Agfa-Gevaert NV Mortsel, Belgium This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
