RE: FCC Importation Issue

2003-01-31 Thread Gregg Kervill

Yes on two recent occasions. But we were able to get them released - before
the steamroller!
G


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Don Clayton
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:36 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: FCC Importation Issue


Has anyone out there had any problems with U.S. Customs
holding a product for lack of FCC report or a declartion
from a manufacturer that product is indeed compliant?

Thanks in advance,

Don Clayton
ESR Engineering Inc.



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RE: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread drcuthbert

I worked on a 1 MW, 160 GHz Gyrotron in 1982 that used a diamond waveguide
window. Yes diamond is the up-and-coming power electronics material with 50X
the thermal conductivity of copper. It is also starting to be used as a
protective thinfilm material.

  Dave Cuthbert


From: Fred Townsend [mailto:f...@poasana.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:03 PM
To: John Woodgate
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: BeCu problem



John, tubes are like vacuum deposition chambers. I have difficulty believing
that
a fancy form of carbon would be of any use in molded structures, HV, or
HVAC.
These conditions are all found  in radar tubes.

Also, thanks to Greggs comment about fancy screw drivers, I remembered that
BeCu
screw drivers, wrenches, etc. are used by the military in explosive
environments
because of their no sparking characteristics.

Fred Townsend

John Woodgate wrote:

 I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in
 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan
 2003:
 BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).
There is
 no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
 Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

 Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved
 thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem.
 --
 Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
 Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go
to
 http://www.isce.org.uk
 PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200301311957.laa25...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor'
on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:
Fluke has a good explanation of the deleterious
effects of harmonics.  See:

http://www.fluke.com/ElectricPower/elec.asp

Thank you.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Fred Townsend

John, tubes are like vacuum deposition chambers. I have difficulty believing
that
a fancy form of carbon would be of any use in molded structures, HV, or HVAC.
These conditions are all found  in radar tubes.

Also, thanks to Greggs comment about fancy screw drivers, I remembered that
BeCu
screw drivers, wrenches, etc. are used by the military in explosive
environments
because of their no sparking characteristics.

Fred Townsend

John Woodgate wrote:

 I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in
 3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan
 2003:
 BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).  There
is
 no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
 Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

 Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved
 thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem.
 --
 Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
 Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
 http://www.isce.org.uk
 PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 ---
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RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests

2003-01-31 Thread Jim Eichner

The approach that CSA takes is sensible in that it includes both the long
duration overload and high-current short circuit capabilities of the source.
Depending on your situation you can end up needing to do one or both of the
following:

1. Bond Impedance - run a current equal to 200% of the branch circuit
breaker rating through the bonding path for 2 minutes (derived from the I
vs. t curves allowed by CSA breaker standards).

2. Bond Limited short-circuit withstand - done at up to 5000A depending on
the supply circuit the product will be connected to; this test is performed
only when the capacity of the bonding path is in doubt (e.g. pcb traces).

Jim Eichner, P.Eng. 
Regulatory Compliance Manager  
Xantrex Technology Inc. 
e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com 
web: www.xantrex.com 

Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists.
Honest.  No really.

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
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From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:23 AM
To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests



John -

This proposal is based on a North American D1 Deviation to
IEC60950, Subclause 2.6.3.3, and is derived from CSA 22.2 No
0.4.  I have a product in my lab that this applies to and
two more products coming in to which it will also apply.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com

 From: John Woodgate

 There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1
 requiring a test of the
 protective conductor network at *prospective
 short-circuit current* for
 the time it takes for the mains circuit
 protective device to operate.
 The details are controversial at present, because
 the test currents
 appear not to have taken into account the
 differences between
 prospective short-circuit currents in different
 wiring systems and
 supply voltages. Given that reservation, the
 lowest test current is 200
 A.

 The amendment is aimed at protective conductors
 which are surface or
 internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It
 is said that such
 traces have failed in the field under
 high-current fault conditions.



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Re: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200301311743.jaa24...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'single fault
conditions' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

So, the failure of switching FETs could give rise
to both fire and shock, but should not do so if the
equipment construction is according to our various
safety standards.  

That was my impression, too.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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FCC Importation Issue

2003-01-31 Thread Don Clayton

Has anyone out there had any problems with U.S. Customs
holding a product for lack of FCC report or a declartion
from a manufacturer that product is indeed compliant?

Thanks in advance,

Don Clayton
ESR Engineering Inc.



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RE: Country Deviations to IEC 60950

2003-01-31 Thread richwo...@tycoint.com

Richard, the national deviations of countries participating in the CB scheme
can be found in the CB Bulletin that can be purchased from the IEC.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International



From: Richard Meyette [mailto:meye...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:54 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Country Deviations to IEC 60950



Group,

I have a question regarding the country deviations to IEC 60950, 3rd
Edition.

Some of the country specific differences are referenced in the IEC standard
as notes to the Subclause. For example, 4.3.6 has notes regarding the
testing
of direct plug-in equipment in Australia and the United Kingdom.

Some of the country differences are not  referenced directly in the
standard.
For example Singapore requires a more stringent humidity conditioning test
than the test specified in Subclause 2.9.2., however there is no note that
references this deviation.

Subclause 1.1.2 (Additional Requirements) only has a note stating that the
authorities of some countries impose additional requirements.

The country specific deviations for the European Union are documented
in EN 60950 (Annex ZB, Special National Conditions), and the US and
Canadian deviations are contained in UL60950/CSA C22.2, No. 60950.

Some of the IEC standards have a list of the specific country differences
in the Forward section of the standard, however IEC 60950 does not.

So my question is this. Is there a reference source that contains a
list of the country deviations for the rest of the world to IEC 60950?

Regards,

Richard Meyette



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EN60950 protective conductor test (was Re: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests)

2003-01-31 Thread Nick Williams

At 12:22 + 31/1/03, John Woodgate wrote:

There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1 requiring a test of the
protective conductor network at *prospective short-circuit current* for
the time it takes for the mains circuit protective device to operate.
The details are controversial at present, because the test currents
appear not to have taken into account the differences between
prospective short-circuit currents in different wiring systems and
supply voltages. Given that reservation, the lowest test current is 200
A.

The amendment is aimed at protective conductors which are surface or
internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It is said that such
traces have failed in the field under high-current fault conditions.
--

Is the proposal to replace the existing test in the standard or to 
add an additional  test only for certain special circumstances?

Is there any evidence that this test would actually result in a 
significant number of poorly designed products which currently pass 
the requirements of the standard being rejected?

The existing test has its faults but it is easy to do with some very 
cheap apparatus. It strikes me that the cost of doing a test at 200+A 
is potentially very substantial. If the result of an amendment to the 
standard is that significant numbers of self-certified products which 
have not been properly tested in this aspect of their design reach 
the market, then the net result will actually be a significant 
reduction in the safety of end users.

A cynic's view might also be that an amendment of this nature would 
suit the test labs and larger manufacturers fine, since they will be 
able to justify the cost of the apparatus required, whereas smaller 
manufacturers (and yes, small consultancy companies like mine) will 
not.

OK, I admit I'm putting two and two together and getting about seven 
but I believe one should get one's retaliation in first in these 
circumstances! Any amendment along the lines suggested should be 
prepared to sacrifice a fair degree of technical accuracy against the 
need for the test to be cheap, quick and easy to perform.

Nowadays, standards writing should not just about getting accuracy 
and repeatability in testing but should also take into account the 
need to ensure that the requirements (and hence the tests) are 
actually possible to apply in the real world, and not just by people 
at specialist test houses.

Regards

Nick.


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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Wagner, John P (John)

It is my understanding that such ports ARE included in the scope.  Comments
from experts on CISPR/I indicate that digital TV tends to have higher
emissions than traditional TV signals.  The intent of the standard is
clearly to limit emissions from cabling structures.  Unless test data shows
otherwise, I think you're stuck.

John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance  Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com








From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:24 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Unfortunately, EN 55022 is the only available emissions standard for CCTV
products used for security applications. Even the standard for professional
video equipment, EN55103-1, references EN 55022 as does the generic
standard. Perhaps the CISPR ITE committee is not aware that they are
affecting a lot of products other than ITE when they make changes to
EN55022. 

Now back to my question about coax connected CCTV equipment. As I read the
standard, I am going to have to test these video ports since the coax cables
can extend for very large distances. It is just not clear that the authors
had this in mind.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:39 AM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE.  CISPR 22 does not apply to them.

Ghery Pettit
Intel



From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs
to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs
having common mode emissions.  The standard also includes tests for coax and
alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that
a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with
base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is
not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments?

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition
itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings
widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more
definitions of interfaces would help, also myself.

Clause 6.3:
Telecommunications port
Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to
connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to
multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring,
ethernet, etc) and similar networks.

Note
A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system
under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std
1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional
specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it),
is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this
definition 

Regards,
Kris



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Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread Rich Nute




Hi John:


   Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to
   be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts
   to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the
   SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you
   (personally, of course, not from HP)?

Fluke has a good explanation of the deleterious
effects of harmonics.  See:

http://www.fluke.com/ElectricPower/elec.asp

Click on Application Notes.  This will take you
to a registration page which you must complete
before you can get to the App Note.

After registering, click on In tune with harmonics.

This App Note covers a number of effects of 
harmonic currents that I have not discussed.


Best regards,
Rich





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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Wagner, John P (John)

Ground loops

John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance  Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com








From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:33 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



I read in !emc-pstc that david_ster...@ademco.com wrote (in 2DF7C54A75B
dd311b61700508b64231002c5b...@nyhqex1.ademconet.com) about
'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard,

How does a safety hazard arise?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Wagner, John P (John) johnwag...@avaya.com
wrote (in 4203D61676D0AE468AA5CEA90A891C1302A01467@cof110avexu4.global.
avaya.com) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

By the way, CISPR/F has nothing whatsoever to do with ITE.  It is CISPR/I and 
formerly CISPR/G 

OOPS Yes, you are quite right. I didn't notice the typo. I meant to
type G, but I is now the correct reference.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in
cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com)
about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:
How can a ferrite clamp be called a CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device? It
reduces EM radiation 
by reducing the current through the antenna, not by absorbing RF. It
could, however, be called a CMAD Common Mode Attenuation Device.

It is *meant* to absorb the energy in a lossy filter. However, it has
been incredibly badly specified by CISPR/F, AIUI.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Andy White (EWU)

GR-1089 does allow a get-out for intra-building surges for STP if grounded at
both ends of the STP cable. Some customers still insist that intra-building
Surges are applied to the conductors regardless of the cable type, STP or UTP.
[We 'design in' Intra-building surge protection (as a mimimum) for all our
interfaces, ENET, T1, RS232 etc]


Andy White,
Staff EMC Engineer
Ericsson Wireless Communications Inc.
San Diego, CA 92121
Tel 858 332 6214 / 877 877 7799 ext 26214
Fax 858 332 7311
e-mail andy.wh...@ewu.ericsson.se




From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:21 AM
To: ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports




David Sterner wrote: 

 UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. 

Telcordia GR-1089 exempts STP from intrabuilding surges; the shield is
assumed to carry them. This makes it attractive for US telecom designers
whose equipment uses Ethernet. 


Cortland


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Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that don_borow...@selinc.com wrote (in
ofc54f7ba7.cab7254d-on88256cbf.0051d...@selinc.com) about 'BeCu
problem' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

I have seen stainless steel used as battery contacts. The contacts
developed an oxide on them that made it difficult to get power from the
battery. Seems to me that some plating could solve that problem however.

OTOH, I have never found any problem with *magnetic* stainless steel.
But nickel plate does cause film interface problems, particularly for
1.5 V or 3 V supplies.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BCE@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom
ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

The standard also includes tests for coax and
alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that
a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with
base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is
not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments?

In Europe, EN 55103-1 would apply to such professional video systems. EN
55022 is NOT the only standard in the Universe.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Gregg Kervill

Good point John - then we can justify the $5,000 screwdriver.

Gregg


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:35 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: BeCu problem


I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in
3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan
2003:
BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).  There
is
no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved
thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread Cortland Richmond

Dave Cuthbert wrote

 The nick name for MFJ is Mighty Fine Junk. 

Yes it is -- or has been. But I'll jump in here to add that while I've in
the past often been underwhelmed by the quality of some MFJ equipment, I
was favorably impressed with my MFJ-259B. And it is quite useful.

I have one of the Autek devices as well, but I prefer the MFJ 259 for test
use. This may be because my Autek is the low-end model, lacking some
capabilities the MFJ has. Autek does make a  more functional model, and
their analyzers are MUCH smaller and lighter than MFJ's.


Cortland


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RE: Proposed new EMC Directive.

2003-01-31 Thread richwo...@tycoint.com
Ian, I recommend that you visit the European Commission's EMC web site:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/index.htm
 
You will find a guide that describes the file requirements and your
obligations for reselling a private branded product. The basic requirements
are not going to change with the revised directive.
 
Richard Woods 
Sensormatic Electronics 
Tyco International 


From: White, Ian [mailto:ianwh...@spiraxsarco.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:34 AM
To: IEEE Forum (E-mail)
Subject: Proposed new EMC Directive. 


Hi everyone.
 
We have been working through consequences of the New Proposed Emc Directive.
As we are not a large electronics company so we will not be able to quote all
the standards  we quoted today as we don't use equipment detailed in that said
standard. 
 
The new directive states we will have to establish technical documentation
which enables conformity to be assed, which would include design and
manufacturing information as well as test results. No doubt detailing the
instrumentation used as well.
 
This is going to make for a very large file for each product. 
 
There is also the point, that we buy in products and put the Spirax label on
it. 
 
Upto this point we have excepted a suppliers D of C. Across the company this a
large number of products. 
 
We would be left assessing if a supplier was complying by reading his
technicial documentation. The amount of paperwork this would entail is a bit
overpowering to think about.
 
Have we been reading the Proposed EMC Directive correctly ?
 
Thanks
 
Ian
 
 
 




RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread richwo...@tycoint.com

Unfortunately, EN 55022 is the only available emissions standard for CCTV
products used for security applications. Even the standard for professional
video equipment, EN55103-1, references EN 55022 as does the generic
standard. Perhaps the CISPR ITE committee is not aware that they are
affecting a lot of products other than ITE when they make changes to
EN55022. 

Now back to my question about coax connected CCTV equipment. As I read the
standard, I am going to have to test these video ports since the coax cables
can extend for very large distances. It is just not clear that the authors
had this in mind.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:39 AM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE.  CISPR 22 does not apply to them.

Ghery Pettit
Intel



From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs
to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs
having common mode emissions.  The standard also includes tests for coax and
alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that
a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with
base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is
not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments?

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition
itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings
widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more
definitions of interfaces would help, also myself.

Clause 6.3:
Telecommunications port
Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to
connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to
multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring,
ethernet, etc) and similar networks.

Note
A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system
under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std
1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional
specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it),
is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this
definition 

Regards,
Kris



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RMCEMC Bonus Feb Meeting Reminder

2003-01-31 Thread Grasso, Charles

To all interested parties:

Announcing the RMCEMC Bonus February Meeting

Presenter: Colin Brench, HP Principal Member of technical Staff (Bio)

Date : Feb 5th 2003

Location : Front Range Community College, Westminster Colorado. Room
Timberline (S117) 

Times : 5:30 -6:30 Social Hour at the Community College Cafeteria.
6:45 : Assemble at the room
7:00- 9:00 Presentations

What we will see: Antenna Behavior and Use - (What Really goes on during a
test?!)
Understanding EMI Shield Behavior in Real Product Environments

If you intend to come: 
Please email Mat Aschenberg at matt.aschenb...@echostar.com so that we can
get an approximate number of attendees. Thank you
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Senior Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel: 303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; 
Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org


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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Cortland Richmond


David Sterner wrote: 

 UTP has been repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP. 

Telcordia GR-1089 exempts STP from intrabuilding surges; the shield is
assumed to carry them. This makes it attractive for US telecom designers
whose equipment uses Ethernet. 


Cortland


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Re: ISM Equip

2003-01-31 Thread Tian Mendez Ext.186
Hi Bill,
 
Can you let me know which type of ISM equipment you need info on?  For Medical
equipment there are requirements but not Scientific. Industrial depends.
 
Thanks,
 
Kind Regards,
 
Tian Wang-Mendez / Sr. Program Manager
EMC Compliance Management Group
670 National Avenue, Mountain View, CA 94043
ISO 17025 Accredited Lab
*  Tel  (650) 988-0900 x186 
* Fax (650) 988-6647
*  Email: twmen...@emclab2000.com
*http://www.emclab2000.com
  _  

- EMC Compliance Management Group is a globally recognized test laboratory for
a broad range of compliance activity testing and certified according to ISO
17025, ISO 9002, EN 45001.
- Perform CCC/MII (Mainland China), RRL/MIC (South Korea), AS/NZS 3548
(A/C-Tick), BSMI / DGT, VCCI, CE, FCC/Canada, UL/CSA, CB Scheme, ETSI and
Bluetooth™.  

  _  


- Original Message - 
From: Bill Wilson mailto:wwwil...@rcn.com  
To: Treggers mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org  
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:37 AM
Subject: ISM Equip

Treggers,
I understand there are compulsory safety and EMC requirements for ITE in
Korea. What about ISM equipment?
Bill
 
Bill Wilson
W.W.Wilson Associates
508-651-1388
wwwil...@rcn.com
www.wwwilsonassoc.com




Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread Rich Nute




Hi John:


   Yes, delta-wye distribution transformer overheating 
   does occur due to the circulation and dissipation of 
   the triplen harmonics in the primary (delta) winding.
   
   Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to
   be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts
   to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the
   SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you
   (personally, of course, not from HP)?

Actually, I learned this and other facts about harmonics
from my participation, some years ago, in the CBEMA 
(now ITIC) ESC-3 committee.  The minutes of those 
meetings (whereever they may be) would support my 
assertions.

My understanding of the European situation is that up to
600 homes could be on one distribution transformer, and 
that the power is distributed as three phases with one
neutral.  The cumulation of harmonics on such a system 
would indeed tend to flat-top the voltage waveform for 
those homes that are far from the transformer.  Also, 
the harmonics would tend to overheat the primary of the 
distribution transformer, the failure of which would 
cause a much larger outage than in North America.

Likewise, in Europe, within commercial and industrial 
sites, the distribution transformer is comparatively 
large, and supplies a very much greater load.  


Best regards,
Rich





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Country Deviations to IEC 60950

2003-01-31 Thread Richard Meyette

Group,

I have a question regarding the country deviations to IEC 60950, 3rd Edition.

Some of the country specific differences are referenced in the IEC standard
as notes to the Subclause. For example, 4.3.6 has notes regarding the testing
of direct plug-in equipment in Australia and the United Kingdom.

Some of the country differences are not  referenced directly in the standard.
For example Singapore requires a more stringent humidity conditioning test
than the test specified in Subclause 2.9.2., however there is no note that
references this deviation.

Subclause 1.1.2 (Additional Requirements) only has a note stating that the
authorities of some countries impose additional requirements.

The country specific deviations for the European Union are documented
in EN 60950 (Annex ZB, Special National Conditions), and the US and
Canadian deviations are contained in UL60950/CSA C22.2, No. 60950.

Some of the IEC standards have a list of the specific country differences
in the Forward section of the standard, however IEC 60950 does not.

So my question is this. Is there a reference source that contains a
list of the country deviations for the rest of the world to IEC 60950?

Regards,

Richard Meyette



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Re: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread Rich Nute




Hi John:


   The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard
   and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers;
   
   Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a
   fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of
   outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could
   arise.

In the case of switching FETs, the power dissipated
in the FET resistance can raise the encapsulent 
material to ignition temperature in which case it
will burn until consumed or until the power to the
FET is cut off.  (While the encapsulent material is
flame-retardant, flame-retardant materials burn as
long as thermal energy is applied to the material.)

Depending on the specific construction, the flame
from the burning encapsulent material could ignite
nearby materials.  However, the standards do not 
allow non-flame-retardant material near mains 
circuits and, ipso facto, near switching FETs.

The thermal energy from an overheated switching FET 
may damage basic insulation -- such as the insulation
between the FET and its heat sink.  Heat sinks are
either connected to one side of the mains, or are
connected to ground.  If connected to ground, the
connection should meet the requirements for a
protective ground.

So, the failure of switching FETs could give rise
to both fire and shock, but should not do so if the
equipment construction is according to our various
safety standards.  


Best regards,
Rich




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RE: Tektronix AM503 question

2003-01-31 Thread boconn...@t-yuden.com
LO - internal backup battery weak 
50 - not listed 
81 - not listed 

if the error was actually 580, the amp was not able to complete a probe
offsett adjustment. Make sure the probe jaws are completly closed.

the firmware for my units only displays error codes  260. 

Brian 

-Original Message- 
From: brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com 
[ mailto:brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:19 AM 
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
Subject: Tektronix AM503 question 

Does anyone out there have a service manual for a Tektronix AM503A current 
probe amplifier?  I need to know what error code 50 followed by LO 
followed by 81 means. 




RE: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests

2003-01-31 Thread Peter L. Tarver

John -

This proposal is based on a North American D1 Deviation to
IEC60950, Subclause 2.6.3.3, and is derived from CSA 22.2 No
0.4.  I have a product in my lab that this applies to and
two more products coming in to which it will also apply.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com

 From: John Woodgate

 There is a proposed amendment to IEC/EN 60950-1
 requiring a test of the
 protective conductor network at *prospective
 short-circuit current* for
 the time it takes for the mains circuit
 protective device to operate.
 The details are controversial at present, because
 the test currents
 appear not to have taken into account the
 differences between
 prospective short-circuit currents in different
 wiring systems and
 supply voltages. Given that reservation, the
 lowest test current is 200
 A.

 The amendment is aimed at protective conductors
 which are surface or
 internal traces of multi-layer printed boards. It
 is said that such
 traces have failed in the field under
 high-current fault conditions.



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RE: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread boconn...@t-yuden.com

The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard 
and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers; 

Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a 
fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of 
outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could 
arise. 

For example, at a previous employer, I observed several instances of FETs (in
a 3kVA instrument) exploding and sending molten metal (mostly from the leads
and the lead's solder pads) through chassis vents, that subsequently caused
the surrounding cheesecloth to ignite. FET body parts punched holes through
insulation. Was actually a fun series of tests...

The Ugly: Safety testing results in design corrections that do not increase 
product safety. 
 
So would it be legitimate to over-drive the gate, forcing short circuit 
current to flow through the FET, but not to apply a mechanical short across 
the component? Experiences  comments are appreciated. 

Doesn't the gate-to-drain short simulate this reasonably well? 

No sir, not in my experience. The (externally applied) G-S s/c tends to wipe
out the gate-drive circuit  FET, in  2mSec, by placing the bus voltage
(typically 300 to 450 Vdc) on gate. If the design does not isolate the
controller circuit, all of the logic-level stuff dies a quick, glorious
death...

If the gate drive ckt fails in a latched-up mode, the FET may survive for a
relatively long time, may tens of input cycles, or perhaps 30min, if the FET
is not part of the high-side main converter, and the design provides only
secondary-side current limiting.

R/S, 
Brian 




Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Doug Smith

Hi Jan,

In addition to health aspects, BeCu is incompatible with most 
enclosure materials and coatings (to prevent rust and corrosion) used 
in equipment. After a couple of weeks a BeCu finger in contact with a 
chassis will leave a black smudge, the corrosion byproducts resulting 
from the battery that is formed. BeCu gaskets must be coated with an 
appropriate plating and not used bare. That little chart of available 
  platinge on the back page of the gasket catalog is the most 
important part of the document!

Doug


Jan Vercammen wrote:
 Hello EMC/PSTC-list,
 
 
 I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is
 not a direct
 EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in
 the EMC shielding of our
 products.
 
 I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the
 rest-of-the world) as
 the material for shielding gaskets and fingers.
 
...deleted for brevity


-- 

 ___  _   Doug Smith
  \  / )  P.O. Box 1457
   =  Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457
_ / \ / \ _   TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799
  /  /\  \ ] /  /\  \ Mobile:  408-858-4528
|  q-( )  |  o  |Email:   d...@dsmith.org
  \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org




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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Pettit, Ghery

David,

Where in article 3.6 of CISPR 22 is the term multi-user used?  Also,
please keep in mind that the ferrite clamps are used only for testing
radiated emissions from table top EUTs.  This telecom port conducted
emissions issue (hence the need for article 3.6) is entirely separate.

Ghery


From: david_ster...@ademco.com [mailto:david_ster...@ademco.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:35 AM
To: ghery.pet...@intel.com; gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com;
richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports


Ghery -

Ethernet on coax (10Base2) is indeed multi-user.  Calling Ethernet/FE on
twisted pair 'multi-user' ignores the fact each cable conect two and only
two units.  Hub/switch ports receive the signal, then reconstitute the
signal before re-transmitting to the next unit.

With EN55022:1998 +A:2000's ferrites, STP CAT-5 ironically will look cleaner
than UTP CAT-5, (ferrites attenuate PC-to-hub common mode).  UTP has been
repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP.  In effect, spec writers 'stack
the deck' in favor of STP.  Hmmm.

Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, but that is
EN60950, not EN55022.

David


From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:27 PM
To: 'Gary McInturff'; Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Gary,

Unfortunately, Article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 states:

3.6
telecommunication ports
Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunication networks (e.g.
public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g.
Ethernet, Token Ring) and similar networks.

Ethernet is specifically called out as a telecommunication port in the
definition.  Rats!

Ghery



From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:20 PM
To: Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports


Glad to hear this! Ethernet lines are interconnection of ITE
components and not telecommunications cables.
Asbestos shorts on - fire away.
Gary


From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:45 AM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

Further clarification to this question was provided by the addition of the
following note at the end of article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 as part of
Amendment 2 which was published in October of last year.

NOTE A port generally intended for interconnection of components of an ITE
system under test (e.g. RS-232,
IEEE Standard 1284 (parallel printer), Universal Serial Bus (USB), IEEE
Standard 1394 (Fire Wire), etc.) and
used in accordance with its functional specifications (e.g. for the maximum
length of cable connected to it), is not
considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition.

I haven't seen an EN version of this amendment yet, but CENELEC should be
coming with it one of these days.

You can purchase a copy of the entire amendment, which adds information on
multifunction equipment, from the IEC web page at http://www.iec.ch .

Ghery Pettit
Intel


From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as  Ports which are intended
to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks.

Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar
networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar
network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not
included? 

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International



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To cancel 

Proposed new EMC Directive.

2003-01-31 Thread White, Ian
Hi everyone.
 
We have been working through consequences of the New Proposed Emc Directive.
As we are not a large electronics company so we will not be able to quote all
the standards  we quoted today as we don't use equipment detailed in that said
standard. 
 
The new directive states we will have to establish technical documentation
which enables conformity to be assed, which would include design and
manufacturing information as well as test results. No doubt detailing the
instrumentation used as well.
 
This is going to make for a very large file for each product. 
 
There is also the point, that we buy in products and put the Spirax label on
it. 
 
Upto this point we have excepted a suppliers D of C. Across the company this a
large number of products. 
 
We would be left assessing if a supplier was complying by reading his
technicial documentation. The amount of paperwork this would entail is a bit
overpowering to think about.
 
Have we been reading the Proposed EMC Directive correctly ?
 
Thanks
 
Ian
 
 
 
 
  

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Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com wrote (in
3e3a35fb.6ecc...@poasana.com) about 'BeCu problem' on Fri, 31 Jan
2003:
BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).  There is
no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

Vapour Phase Deposition of diamond may replace BeO, with improved
thermal properties, AIUI, and no toxicity problem.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that david_ster...@ademco.com wrote (in 2DF7C54A75B
dd311b61700508b64231002c5b...@nyhqex1.ademconet.com) about
'EN55022:1998 and telecom ports' on Fri, 31 Jan 2003:

Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard,

How does a safety hazard arise?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Pettit, Ghery

Richard,

Cameras, monitors, etc are not ITE.  CISPR 22 does not apply to them.

Ghery Pettit
Intel



From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:20 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs
to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs
having common mode emissions.  The standard also includes tests for coax and
alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that
a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with
base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is
not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments?

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition
itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings
widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more
definitions of interfaces would help, also myself.

Clause 6.3:
Telecommunications port
Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to
connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to
multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring,
ethernet, etc) and similar networks.

Note
A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system
under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std
1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional
specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it),
is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this
definition 

Regards,
Kris



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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread Wagner, John P (John)

As the requirements for conducted emissions on telecom ports developed,
definitions changed repeatedly -- all intended to describe the same cabling. 
At one point, extensive networks was used which I think better describes the
situation.  However, then the question is What is extensive?  Also, the use
of telecom is confusing, at least in North America.  The emphasis here is on
tele and hence telecom networks are telephone networks.  In CISPR however,
telecom networks are communication networks that may involve voice.

There are many who will disagree with this, hence the problem in the first
place.  

To me the situation is pretty clear and the standard does an adequate job of
defining what it means, by example.  You are expected to use common sense and
judgment in determining the applicablity to your cabling system.  Engineering
judgment is still expected from those qapplying the standard.

By the way, CISPR/F has nothing whatsoever to do with ITE.  It is CISPR/I and
formerly CISPR/G 

John P. Wagner
Regulatory Compliance  Mandatory Standards
AVAYA Regulatory Compliance Laboratory
1300 W. 120th Ave, Room B3-D16
Westminster, CO 80234-2726
Phone/Fax: (303) 538-4241
johnwag...@avaya.com








From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:55 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BB4@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom
ports' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:
EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as  Ports which are intended
to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks.

Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar
networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar
network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not
included? 

Yes, well, CISPR/F (responsible for the underlying CISPR 22 standard)
should have a *functioning* editing committee with enough experience and
insight to weed out such phrases. List of examples are always
troublesome in one way or another, and in any case MUST not be
'unterminated', by ending in 'etc.' or 'and similar', etc. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Tektronix AM503 question

2003-01-31 Thread brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com

Does anyone out there have a service manual for a Tektronix AM503A current
probe amplifier?  I need to know what error code 50 followed by LO
followed by 81 means.

Thanks in advance,

Brent DeWitt



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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread richwo...@tycoint.com

OK, so widely dispersed is a key element in determining if a network needs
to be tested. That is consistent with the problem of long balanced pairs
having common mode emissions.  The standard also includes tests for coax and
alludes to emissions caused by imperfect shielding. That seems to imply that
a network of video products (e.g., cameras, monitors, muxes, VCRs, etc) with
base band signals in coax would also be subject to testing. However, it is
not clear that is what the authors had in mind. Comments?

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International




From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:54 PM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

In addition to Gherys explanation of the note, there is also the definition
itself that inherently excludes certain interfaces by means of the wordings
widely dispersed and multi-user. But I agree that adding some more
definitions of interfaces would help, also myself.

Clause 6.3:
Telecommunications port
Point of connection for voice , data and signalling transfers intended to
connect widely dispersed systems via such means as direct connection to
multi-user telecom networks (e.g. PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN (token ring,
ethernet, etc) and similar networks.

Note
A port generally intended for connection of components of an ITE system
under test (e.g. RS232, IEEE standard 1284 (parallel printer), USB, IEEE Std
1394 (fire wire) etc) and used in accordance with its functional
specifications ( e.g. for the max. length of cable to be connected to it),
is not considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this
definition 

Regards,
Kris



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RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread drcuthbert

The MFJ-259B is available from MFJ Enterprises, a ham radio accessory
company. The nick name for MFJ is Mighty Fine Junk. Autek also makes a
similar device although I haven't tried one. The MFJ-259B SWR analyzer is
basically a handheld impedance meter. It's also good for checking the input
Z of Bicons and such. The MFJ-269 provides a look at 470 MHz.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/index.php

   Dave Cuthbert


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:14 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000



I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in
cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com)
about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:
And I have used an MFJ-259B (only
$260) to measure ferrites from 1.7 to 170 MHz.  

What is an MFJ-259B and where can I buy one?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk

Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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RE: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Peter L. Tarver


Jan -

Both Be and BeO pose health risks.  While I can't point to
anything to support the claim, BeCu will probably become a
part of the product take back/recycling.

I did text searches of the WEEE and the RoHS Directives and
found no mention of Be in any form.

Be and its compounds are looked at under the various
voluntary ecological programs.

Many of my eco links are dead, but you can refer to

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/beryllium/

for the US position.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


 From: Jan Vercammen
 Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:04 PM

 Hello EMC/PSTC-list,


 I have a question concerning Berylium Copper
 (BeCu). Even though this is
 not a direct
 EMC oriented question, it is or could be,
 indirectly, a serious problem in
 the EMC shielding of our
 products.

 I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in
 Europe and the USA (and the
 rest-of-the world) as
 the material for shielding gaskets and fingers.

 The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in
 combination) is
 classified as an carcinogen and
 it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB
 or chronic Berylium
 disease). Note that this is only the
 case if small particles are inhaled into the
 lungs. However, I have also
 received conflicting information
 that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could
 be the cultprit. BeO is
 used as an electronic packaging material.

 Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and
 fingers are not an health
 hazard when used as a
 shielding part in our products, but are (or could
 be)  hazardeous during
 manufacturing and recycling.

 I have been told on several occasions that BeCu
 is not allowed any more,
 but one can not provide
 me with standards or legal texts to substantiate
 the above statements. I
 have also been told that
 we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap
 to stainless steel parts.
 However, personally
 I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC
 experts on the
 EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the
  following questions:

 -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are
 considered a hazardeous
 substance and that they will
   be abolished from electronic equipment?
 -2- if  question 1  is correct, what is then the
 exact argument for not
 using BeCu??
 -3- are there (world wide) legal
 standards/regulations published that state
 that BeCu (as a finished product)
   cannot be used anymore and by which date???
 -4- what is your experience with the conversion
 of BeCu to stailess steel
 gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical
   shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)???



 Kind regards,

 Jan Vercammen
 Agfa-Gevaert NV
 Mortsel, Belgium



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RE: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread drcuthbert

How can a ferrite clamp be called a CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device? It
reduces EM radiation 
by reducing the current through the antenna, not by absorbing RF. It
could, however, be called a CMAD Common Mode Attenuation Device.

  Dave Cuthbert


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:12 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000



I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in
oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmoeelchaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about 'EN55022:1998
+ A1:2000' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:

The official name is CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device.
(before John makes one himself ;))

You mean me?  And do you mean before I make a name for the device or
before I make a DIY device itself? I don't plan to do that at present,
but you never know.

The discussion in the UK committee leads me to think that the 'MAD' part
is apt. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk

Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread don_borow...@selinc.com


I have seen stainless steel used as battery contacts. The contacts
developed an oxide on them that made it difficult to get power from the
battery. Seems to me that some plating could solve that problem however.

There are no good substitues for BeO in all applications. AlN is better
than alumina, but not as good as BeO. If the application needs a simple
flat insulator to conduct heat, and is small, diamond is a wonderful
material - better heat conductivity than copper!

Don Borowski
Schweitzer Engineering Labs
Pullman, WA





Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 01/31/2003 12:38:19
AM

Please respond to Fred Townsend f...@poasana.com

Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org


To:Jan Vercammen jan.vercamm...@agfa.com
cc:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Re: BeCu problem



I can't help you with the regulations but I can clarify the usage of
Beryllium
a bit.  When Beryllium is added to copper it makes it very hard.  It is
used in
gaskets to make them springy.  Stainless steel is a poor substitute because
it
lacks both the electrical and thermal conductivity.

So far as I know there is no handling hazard unless you saw or grind it.


Beryllium oxide BeO has similar restrictions on grinding.  I don't know if
it
can be sawed.  It would probably take a diamond blade in a liquid bath to
have
a chance at sawing.

BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).  There
is
no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

Fred Townsend

Jan Vercammen wrote:

 Hello EMC/PSTC-list,

 I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is
 not a direct
 EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem
in
 the EMC shielding of our
 products.

 I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and
the
 rest-of-the world) as
 the material for shielding gaskets and fingers.

 The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is
 classified as an carcinogen and
 it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium
 disease). Note that this is only the
 case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also
 received conflicting information
 that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is
 used as an electronic packaging material.

 Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health
 hazard when used as a
 shielding part in our products, but are (or could be)  hazardeous during
 manufacturing and recycling.

 I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more,
 but one can not provide
 me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I
 have also been told that
 we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts.
 However, personally
 I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the
 EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the
  following questions:

 -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous
 substance and that they will
   be abolished from electronic equipment?
 -2- if  question 1  is correct, what is then the exact argument for not
 using BeCu??
 -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that
state
 that BeCu (as a finished product)
   cannot be used anymore and by which date???
 -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel
 gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical
   shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)???

 Kind regards,

 Jan Vercammen
 Agfa-Gevaert NV
 Mortsel, Belgium





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RE: Helmholtz article

2003-01-31 Thread drcuthbert

See the May 2002 issue


From: drcuthbert [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com]
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:55 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Helmholtz article



Here is the link to the Conformity magazine article: Magnetic Field
Calibration: Unwinding The Helmholtz Coil, by Isidor Straus
http://www.conformity.com/featurearticlesarchive.html#June%202002

I used the formulas in this article to design and build an active ELF loop
antenna.

  Dave Cuthbert 
  Micron Technology


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Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200301292324.paa09...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor'
on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:
Yes, delta-wye distribution transformer overheating 
does occur due to the circulation and dissipation of 
the triplen harmonics in the primary (delta) winding.

Thank you for that and the rest of the information, which could prove to
be very helpful indeed. I would like to use it in my continuing efforts
to defuse the arguments between the former TC74 experts in TC108 and the
SC77A/WG1 people. May I say that the information came from you
(personally, of course, not from HP)?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
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Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200301301638.iaa15...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'Unity Power Factor'
on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:
As Ken Javor described, in the USA, voltage 
distortion is largely a local (privately-owned 
wiring) premises problem due to excessive 
series resistance between the load and the 
point where the utility connects to the local 
premises wiring.

Voltage distortion at the point where the utility
(public network) connects to the local premises 
wiring is rare.

Thank you. This is all good stuff. I wish it had been available some
years ago. We've never succeeded in getting such clear and definite
statements about the US experience previously.
-- 
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FW: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI

2003-01-31 Thread Jim Bacher

Forwarding for Pauline, please reply to her.  Jim


From: Pauline Rodela [mailto:paul...@midcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:06 PM
Subject: #18328: Engineer (TEMPEST); Grand Rapids, MI


Hello,

I obtained your name and email from the IEEE EMC Society Directors listing
at http://www.ieee.org and was wondering if you could be of any assistance
in helping me find a candidate for the below position.

I have a 6 month contract position open in Grand Rapids, MI for an Engineer
to create an emanation analysis for an airborne computer to meet
TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements. 

To be considered, the following requirements must be met:
·   Secret security clearance (Used within the last 2 years)
·   Familiar with National Security Telecommunications and Information
Systems Security Advisory (NSTISSAM) TEMPEST/1-92 test requirements
·   Familiar with DoD Instruction 5200.40, DoD Information Technology
Security Certification and Accreditation Process (DITSCAP)
·   Must be familiar with Emission Security (EMSEC) countermeasure
implementations
·   Will work with the customer to establish Smiths role in the System
Security Authorization Agreement (SSAA) and create a plan to meet
requirements
·   Must be able to perform an emanation analysis, which will form a
part of the customer's System Security Authorization Agreement

If you would like to be submitted or would know of anyone else who might be,
please reply with an updated resume and contact Pauline at (714) 579-3000
x259. Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon!


Hope you have a wonderful day! ^_^

Pauline Rodela 
Technical Recruiter
MIDCOM CORPORATION
Voice: (714) 579-3000, Ext. 259
Fax: (714) 459-7055
http://www.midcom.com


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Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in
oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmoeelchaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about 'EN55022:1998
+ A1:2000' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:

The official name is CMAD Common Mode Absorption Device.
(before John makes one himself ;))

You mean me?  And do you mean before I make a name for the device or
before I make a DIY device itself? I don't plan to do that at present,
but you never know.

The discussion in the UK committee leads me to think that the 'MAD' part
is apt. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
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Re: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58
40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault
conditions' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:
Yes sir, this is another thing I've wondered about; i.e., simulating the
big 
bus cap (short) SFC by applying a mechanical short accross the terminals. 
Does not really demonstrate what would occur if the cap itself fails. A 
blown electrolytic can be very messy.
 
I am beginning to wonder about some of the testing that I perform that
the 
agencies think is really great stuff...

This subject should be studied by the TC108 team preparing the standard
that will replace IEC 60950 and IEC 60065. However, at this time, there
seems to be no specialist team assigned to studying the subject of
realistic fault simulation. There is a meeting of the team next month.
Maybe this subject should be discussed.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
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Re: Translations: Chinese to English

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Collins, Jeffrey jcoll...@ciena.com wrote (in
1d4e6e0235bdf84bb58bace5086d9c518...@wntcsdexg03.oni.com) about
'Translations: Chinese to English' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:
Can you recommend a company or individual who is competent ( and reasonable
$$$ ) in translating technical documents from Mandarin Chinese into English.
I'm also seeking someone capable of translating technical documents from
English to Portuguese or Mandarin Chinese to Portuguese.
Preferably looking for a west coast entity but it is not required.

I suggest you post your enquiry on the newsgroup:
sci.lang.translation.marketplace
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
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Re: Unity Power Factor

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote
(in 0h9j008afer...@mtaout03.icomcast.net) about 'Unity Power Factor'
on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:
Yes I am in the US so clearly I must have been mistaken.  Seriously, when 
that business started in 1989 there were relatively few PCs in use there.
PC cubes were  scattered throughout the building that people could use on
an as-needed basis.  By 1995, every engineer's cube had a PC running all day
long. 

Yes, a similar thing happened in Europe. It was this *rapid* expansion
of PC deployment that frightened the European electricity suppliers.
They coped earlier with the far more gradual development of the TV park,
first persuading the TV manufacturers to give up half-wave rectifiers
and subsequently to control the harmonic emissions of very large sets.

They extrapolated the effects of the rapid expansion of PCs (and
simultaneous use of more than one TV per household) and deduced that
widespread system failures would occur in a few (5?) years (counting
from about 1989) if the emissions remained controlled only by the Class
A limits of IEC/EN60555-2. Hence the invention of 'Class D' and all the
ensuing grief. It has now been shown pretty convincingly that the
extrapolations were very pessimistic. The latest European supply
industry predictions, based on voltage distortion growth levels of the
past decade of 0.1% absolute per year (by 'absolute', I mean a growth
from, say, 4% to 4.1% at a a particular site, not from 4% to 100.1% of
4%!), is that unacceptable levels of supply disturbance will occur in 10
years time. However, there are several reasons why that 0.1% growth rate
will not be maintained over that time period, not least the effect of
IEC/EN 61000-3-2 itself, which will not be reliably measurable, in
Europe, until 2005 at the earliest. 

 It would have been interesting, in retrospect, to have taken line
voltage oscillographs at representative locations as the PC density
increased.

Yes, it would have. I have about a 20 year gap in observations of the
mains waveform here in UK, from about 1971 to 1991, when I heard about
Class D and started to study the subject closely. During that time, the
flat tops developed.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
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Re: EN55022:1998 + A1:2000

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that drcuthbert drcuthb...@micron.com wrote (in
cfefa50c9bcad21197470001fa7eba6b14121...@ntexchange05.micron.com)
about 'EN55022:1998 + A1:2000' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:
And I have used an MFJ-259B (only
$260) to measure ferrites from 1.7 to 170 MHz.  

What is an MFJ-259B and where can I buy one?
-- 
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Re: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675BB4@flbocexu05) about 'EN55022:1998 and telecom
ports' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:
EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as  Ports which are intended
to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks.

Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar
networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar
network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not
included? 

Yes, well, CISPR/F (responsible for the underlying CISPR 22 standard)
should have a *functioning* editing committee with enough experience and
insight to weed out such phrases. List of examples are always
troublesome in one way or another, and in any case MUST not be
'unterminated', by ending in 'etc.' or 'and similar', etc. (;-)
-- 
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Re: Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Peter L. Tarver peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com
wrote (in nebbkemlgllmjofmoplekehbedaa.peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com)
about 'Circuit Breaker Tripping Dring Fault Tests' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:

John -

That impedance value is suprisingly high, 


It applies to 230 V 50 Hz systems only. SC77A/WG2 has been given a too
limited amount of data on 120 V 60 Hz systems to deduce a reference
value, but it seems to be rather less than half the 230 V value, because
permitted voltage tolerances in 120 V systems tend to be +/-5%, less
than in Europe (6 to 10%).

but tends to
support the contention that the fault current at an outlet
will be much lower than was suggested (65kA, which, to me,
appeared more like a peak surge current than a fault
current).

Yes, 65 kA is way too high.

For those interested, below are what the IEC Web Store has
to say about IEC 60725.

Title: Considerations on reference impedances for use in
determining the disturbance characteristics of household
appliances and similar electrical equipment

Abstract: Records the information that was available and the
factors that were taken into account in arriving at the
reference impedance of 0.4+ j 0.25 ohm which has been
incorporated in IEC 60555. Has the status of a technical
report.

A revision is under way. Postpone your buying decision.(;-)

It doesn't alter the reference impedance but adds information of
calculating the impedances of (particularly) higher-current services,
applicable to any system voltage and permitted voltage variation.

0.5 Ohm seems large for a flexible cord.

0.5 ohms is 0.2 ohm total for the two conductors of the flexible plus
0.3 ohm total for the two conductors of the feed to the wall socket. All
in a 230 V system. It's just an example. 
-- 
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Re: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58
40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault
conditions' on Wed, 29 Jan 2003:

The environment being considered is a switching power supply. The technique
that safety agencies use to simulate a SFC on a power FET does not seem,
IMHO, to simulate the actual failure mode of the device. To wit: when the
mosfet fails short, it blows itself open; so the amount of current sucked
out of mains, e.g., the PFC FET, would probably open the component after a
few input cycles. But if I apply a direct mechanical short (source to
drain), current is being forced to flow until the fuse blows, or until some
series trace or component opens.

Agreed.

The Bad: some FETs fail very violently, and can actually be a fire hazard
and/or shock hazard in open-frame switchers;

Really? There doesn't seem to be enough combustible material to cause a
fire hazard, and an open-frame switcher always has to be in some sort of
outer enclosure, doesn't it? So it's not clear how a shock hazard could
arise.

 but if the FET itself does not
provide the short circuit, we will never know

Indeed: the external short-circuit doesn't simulate the device failure.

The Good: providing a continuous (mechanical) short will reveal if there
are other components in the current path that could be cause the unit to
fail in an unsafe mode. 
Agreed.

Although, according to QA records, these components
have never failed, so it can be both demonstrated by design equations and
empirical evidence that the SFC test does necessarily demonstrate anything
relevant...

The Ugly: Safety testing results in design corrections that do not increase
product safety.

So would it be legitimate to over-drive the gate, forcing short circuit
current to flow through the FET, but not to apply a mechanical short across
the component? Experiences  comments are appreciated.

Doesn't the gate-to-drain short simulate this reasonably well?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
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Re: single fault conditions

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote (in F7E9180F6F7F58
40858d3db815e4f7ad1f2...@cms21.t-yuden.com) about 'single fault
conditions' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:

I am also concerned that there are products on the market, tested in good 
faith, that would be unsafe for a more probable SFC, that would not be 
tested for, in accordance with existing standards.

If you find the existing standards inadequate, bring your proposals for
new tests to your national standards committee for onward transmission
to IEC.
-- 
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Re: UK DTI applying generic standard to test hair dryer for conformity

2003-01-31 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Paul Chan ncc...@tuvps.com.hk wrote (in
006901c2c801$82c70a00$27086...@tuvglobal.com) about 'UK DTI applying
generic standard to test hair dryer for conformity' on Thu, 30 Jan 2003:
I have read a news regarding on 3 Sept 02, UK Department of Trade Industry
(DTI) applied EMC Generic standard EN50081-1 Radiated Emission to test for
compliance on a AC Hair dryer, which claimed to interfere TV reception.  The
hair dryer failed the test and the importer was prosecuted by violation of
EMC Directive.

You will find more information on this case at:
 http://www.compliance-club.org 
if you follow links. The press reports were not entirely accurate. There
were safety issues **as well as a lack of co-operation by the
manufacturer**.

Should the product be covered by EN55014-1 already?  Please comment.

Yes, what has been shown is that the standard is inadequate, since it
does not control emissions in the UHF TV bands. Steps are being taken to
deal with this. 

However, anyone who markets a hair-dryer that clearly interferes with TV
is not exactly sensible, do you think? It isn't as if you need a test-
house to find that problem!
-- 
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 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

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Helmholtz article

2003-01-31 Thread drcuthbert

Here is the link to the Conformity magazine article: Magnetic Field
Calibration: Unwinding The Helmholtz Coil, by Isidor Straus
http://www.conformity.com/featurearticlesarchive.html#June%202002

I used the formulas in this article to design and build an active ELF loop
antenna.

  Dave Cuthbert 
  Micron Technology


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RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports

2003-01-31 Thread david_ster...@ademco.com

Ghery -

Ethernet on coax (10Base2) is indeed multi-user.  Calling Ethernet/FE on
twisted pair 'multi-user' ignores the fact each cable conect two and only
two units.  Hub/switch ports receive the signal, then reconstitute the
signal before re-transmitting to the next unit.

With EN55022:1998 +A:2000's ferrites, STP CAT-5 ironically will look cleaner
than UTP CAT-5, (ferrites attenuate PC-to-hub common mode).  UTP has been
repeatedly shown to radiate less than STP.  In effect, spec writers 'stack
the deck' in favor of STP.  Hmmm.

Earthing STP shields at both ends is potential safety hazard, but that is
EN60950, not EN55022.

David


From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:27 PM
To: 'Gary McInturff'; Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Gary,

Unfortunately, Article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 states:

3.6
telecommunication ports
Ports which are intended to be connected to telecommunication networks (e.g.
public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g.
Ethernet, Token Ring) and similar networks.

Ethernet is specifically called out as a telecommunication port in the
definition.  Rats!

Ghery



From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:20 PM
To: Pettit, Ghery; richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports


Glad to hear this! Ethernet lines are interconnection of ITE
components and not telecommunications cables.
Asbestos shorts on - fire away.
Gary


From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:45 AM
To: 'richwo...@tycoint.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



Richard,

Further clarification to this question was provided by the addition of the
following note at the end of article 3.6 of CISPR 22:1997 as part of
Amendment 2 which was published in October of last year.

NOTE A port generally intended for interconnection of components of an ITE
system under test (e.g. RS-232,
IEEE Standard 1284 (parallel printer), Universal Serial Bus (USB), IEEE
Standard 1394 (Fire Wire), etc.) and
used in accordance with its functional specifications (e.g. for the maximum
length of cable connected to it), is not
considered to be a telecommunications/network port under this definition.

I haven't seen an EN version of this amendment yet, but CENELEC should be
coming with it one of these days.

You can purchase a copy of the entire amendment, which adds information on
multifunction equipment, from the IEC web page at http://www.iec.ch .

Ghery Pettit
Intel


From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EN55022:1998 and telecom ports



EN55022:1998 defines telecommunication ports as  Ports which are intended
to be connected to telecommunications networks (e.g. public switched
telecommunication networks, integrated services digital networks), local
area networks (e.g. Ethernet, token ring) and similar networks.

Since similar networks are included, it would seem that dissimilar
networks are excluded. What distinguishes a similar network to a dissimilar
network? What are some examples of dissimilar networks that are not
included? 

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International



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RE: request sources for UL and/or IEC accessibility probe (test finger)

2003-01-31 Thread Scott Douglas
Paul,

Try this place. A good place to do business.

http://www.productsafet.com/pages/main.html


Scott Douglas


Senior Compliance Engineer
Narad Networks
515 Groton Road 
Westford, MA 01886
phone:  978 589-1869
dougl...@naradnetworks.com
www.naradnetworks.com http://www.naradnetworks.com/ 


At 05:21 PM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote:





Folks

What  sources are out there to  purchase an articulated  UL and/or IEC
accessibility probe (test finger) from the various UL, IEC and other
product safety standards. An example is shown in Annex B of  EN61010-1

Thanks for your help.

Regards ,
  Paul J Smith
  Teradyne, Boston





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Re: BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Fred Townsend

I can't help you with the regulations but I can clarify the usage of Beryllium
a bit.  When Beryllium is added to copper it makes it very hard.  It is used in
gaskets to make them springy.  Stainless steel is a poor substitute because it
lacks both the electrical and thermal conductivity.

So far as I know there is no handling hazard unless you saw or grind it.


Beryllium oxide BeO has similar restrictions on grinding.  I don't know if it
can be sawed.  It would probably take a diamond blade in a liquid bath to have
a chance at sawing.

BeO has seven times better thermal conductivity than AlO (alumina).  There is
no real substitute for BeO at high power levels.  It is still used by the
Military in high power radar applications such as tubes.

Fred Townsend

Jan Vercammen wrote:

 Hello EMC/PSTC-list,

 I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is
 not a direct
 EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in
 the EMC shielding of our
 products.

 I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the
 rest-of-the world) as
 the material for shielding gaskets and fingers.

 The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is
 classified as an carcinogen and
 it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium
 disease). Note that this is only the
 case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also
 received conflicting information
 that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is
 used as an electronic packaging material.

 Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health
 hazard when used as a
 shielding part in our products, but are (or could be)  hazardeous during
 manufacturing and recycling.

 I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more,
 but one can not provide
 me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I
 have also been told that
 we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts.
 However, personally
 I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the
 EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the
  following questions:

 -1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous
 substance and that they will
   be abolished from electronic equipment?
 -2- if  question 1  is correct, what is then the exact argument for not
 using BeCu??
 -3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state
 that BeCu (as a finished product)
   cannot be used anymore and by which date???
 -4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel
 gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical
   shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)???

 Kind regards,

 Jan Vercammen
 Agfa-Gevaert NV
 Mortsel, Belgium

 ---
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BeCu problem

2003-01-31 Thread Jan Vercammen

Hello EMC/PSTC-list,


I have a question concerning Berylium Copper (BeCu). Even though this is
not a direct
EMC oriented question, it is or could be, indirectly, a serious problem in
the EMC shielding of our
products.

I have been asked if BeCu can still be used in Europe and the USA (and the
rest-of-the world) as
the material for shielding gaskets and fingers.

The main issue here is that Berylium (probably in combination) is
classified as an carcinogen and
it is also know to cause lung diseases (e.g. CDB or chronic Berylium
disease). Note that this is only the
case if small particles are inhaled into the lungs. However, I have also
received conflicting information
that it is BeO (Berylium Oxide) which is or could be the cultprit. BeO is
used as an electronic packaging material.

Therefore I assume that the BeCu gaskets and fingers are not an health
hazard when used as a
shielding part in our products, but are (or could be)  hazardeous during
manufacturing and recycling.

I have been told on several occasions that BeCu is not allowed any more,
but one can not provide
me with standards or legal texts to substantiate the above statements. I
have also been told that
we need to change the BeCu shielding parts asap to stainless steel parts.
However, personally
I do not feel convinced and was hoping that EMC experts on the
EMC/PSTC-list could help me out with the
 following questions:

-1- is it correct that BeCu fingers/gaskets are considered a hazardeous
substance and that they will
  be abolished from electronic equipment?
-2- if  question 1  is correct, what is then the exact argument for not
using BeCu??
-3- are there (world wide) legal standards/regulations published that state
that BeCu (as a finished product)
  cannot be used anymore and by which date???
-4- what is your experience with the conversion of BeCu to stailess steel
gaskets/fingers for non-dynamical
  shielding applications (cost, problems, ...)???



Kind regards,

Jan Vercammen
Agfa-Gevaert NV
Mortsel, Belgium



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