Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[Charlie Blackham]

Sam

Those directives are enforced by a different UK government department that 
didn’t put out a press release.

There’s been no further communication on this issue so we’re really waiting to 
see what the draft legislation says when that’s published (whenever that may be)

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Sam Davis <163be7cdf3a8-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 6:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

In reviewing this, I don’t see that it addresses RoHS and Ecodesign directives. 
 Would products in scope of these directives still require the UKCA mark by 
December 2024?

SAM Davis
Sr. Regulatory Engineering Manager
Customer Engineering Services
www.jabil.com<https://www.jabil.com/>

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

CAUTION: This email was sent from a third party outside of your organization. 
Please DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the content is safe.
If you believe this email is not safe, please DO NOT forward this email. Report 
this email by right-clicking on the email in your folder view, selecting 
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Reporting:  
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
 - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture 
of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image accompanying this 
article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark that adheres more 
closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced”

The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for placing 
most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond December 2024. 
These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for 
Business and Trade (DBT). These are:

  *   toys
  *   pyrotechnics
  *   recreational craft and personal watercraft
  *   simple pressure vessels
  *   electromagnetic compatibility
  *   non-automatic weighing instruments
  *   measuring instruments
  *   measuring container bottles
  *   lifts
  *   equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
  *   radio equipment
  *   pressure equipment
  *   personal protective equipment (PPE)
  *   gas appliances
  *   machinery
  *   equipment for use outdoors
  *   aerosols
  *   low voltage electrical equipment
[cid:image002.png@01D9EB91.D6EAD600]
Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
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​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
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​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.


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Website: 

Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[Sam Davis]

In reviewing this, I don’t see that it addresses RoHS and Ecodesign directives. 
 Would products in scope of these directives still require the UKCA mark by 
December 2024?

SAM Davis
Sr. Regulatory Engineering Manager
Customer Engineering Services
www.jabil.com<https://www.jabil.com/>

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

CAUTION: This email was sent from a third party outside of your organization. 
Please DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the content is safe.
If you believe this email is not safe, please DO NOT forward this email. Report 
this email by right-clicking on the email in your folder view, selecting 
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Reporting:  
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
 - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture 
of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image accompanying this 
article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark that adheres more 
closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced”

The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for placing 
most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond December 2024. 
These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for 
Business and Trade (DBT). These are:

  *   toys
  *   pyrotechnics
  *   recreational craft and personal watercraft
  *   simple pressure vessels
  *   electromagnetic compatibility
  *   non-automatic weighing instruments
  *   measuring instruments
  *   measuring container bottles
  *   lifts
  *   equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
  *   radio equipment
  *   pressure equipment
  *   personal protective equipment (PPE)
  *   gas appliances
  *   machinery
  *   equipment for use outdoors
  *   aerosols
  *   low voltage electrical equipment
[cid:image001.png@01D9EB56.82C93700][cid:image002.png@01D9EB56.82C93700]
Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed.
​If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do 
not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
immediately.
​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
views of the company, unless specifically stated.
​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.


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Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[MIKE SHERMAN]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing!

Has anybody heard any UK thoughts about how the UK will approach the new 
Machinery Regulation, which replaces the Machinery Directive for CE marking?
 
Mike Sherman
Sherman PSC LLC

> On 08/01/2023 8:17 AM CDT Lauren Crane 
> <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Thanks very much for sharing this!
>  
> Best Regards,
> - Lauren Crane
> **Sent from mobile phone. Please excuse typos, brevity, etc.**
> 
> 
> Confidential – Limited Access and Use
> 
> 
> -
> From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41:12 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> Subject: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely
>  
>  
> You don't often get email from matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com. Learn why 
> this is important https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification
>  
>  
> 
> External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you 
> recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email 
> may be unsafe, please click on the “Report Phishing” button on the top right 
> of Outlook.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation
> 
> Reporting:  
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
>  
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
>  - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a 
> picture of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image 
> accompanying this article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark 
> that adheres more closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced”
> 
> The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for 
> placing most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond 
> December 2024. These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the 
> Department for Business and Trade (DBT). These are:
> 
> * toys
> * pyrotechnics
> * recreational craft and personal watercraft
> * simple pressure vessels
> * electromagnetic compatibility
> * non-automatic weighing instruments
> * measuring instruments
> * measuring container bottles
> * lifts
> * equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
> * radio equipment
> * pressure equipment
> * personal protective equipment (PPE)
> * gas appliances
> * machinery
> * equipment for use outdoors
> * aerosols
> * low voltage electrical equipment
> Disclaimer:  This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
> addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, 
> do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
> immediately.
> The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
> views of the company, unless specifically stated.
> 
> GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
> number 06210991.
> Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
> Sussex, BN12 4QY.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[Doug Nix]

Thanks, Matthew, this is very helpful!

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704



> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:41, Matthew Wilson | GBE 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation
> 
> Reporting:  
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
>  - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a 
> picture of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image 
> accompanying this article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark 
> that adheres more closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced”
> 
> The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for 
> placing most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond 
> December 2024. These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the 
> Department for Business and Trade (DBT). These are:
> 
> toys
> pyrotechnics
> recreational craft and personal watercraft
> simple pressure vessels
> electromagnetic compatibility
> non-automatic weighing instruments
> measuring instruments
> measuring container bottles
> lifts
> equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
> radio equipment
> pressure equipment
> personal protective equipment (PPE)
> gas appliances
> machinery
> equipment for use outdoors
> aerosols
> low voltage electrical equipment
> 
> Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
> addressed.
> ​If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, 
> do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
> immediately.
> ​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
> views of the company, unless specifically stated.
> ​
> ​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
> number 06210991.
> ​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, 
> West Sussex, BN12 4QY.
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All 
> emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/
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Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[John Woodgate]

An unusually sensible decision. If it happens in the future that the 
European requirements for a particular product family become 
unacceptable in UK, an exception can be made just for those products, 
leaving CE valid for everything else.


On 2023-08-01 10:41, Matthew Wilson | GBE wrote:


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Reporting: 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown 
- the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a 
picture of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image 
accompanying this article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE 
mark that adheres more closely to EU guidance on how it should be 
reproduced”


The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking 
for placing most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, 
beyond December 2024. These updates apply to the 18 regulations that 
fall under the Department for Business and Trade (DBT). These are:


  * toys
  * pyrotechnics
  * recreational craft and personal watercraft
  * simple pressure vessels
  * electromagnetic compatibility
  * non-automatic weighing instruments
  * measuring instruments
  * measuring container bottles
  * lifts
  * equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
  * radio equipment
  * pressure equipment
  * personal protective equipment (PPE)
  * gas appliances
  * machinery
  * equipment for use outdoors
  * aerosols
  * low voltage electrical equipment

Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed.
​If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do 
not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
immediately.
​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
views of the company, unless specifically stated.
​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.



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Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[Lauren Crane]

Thanks very much for sharing this!

Best Regards,
- Lauren Crane
**Sent from mobile phone. Please excuse typos, brevity, etc.**


Confidential – Limited Access and Use


From: Matthew Wilson | GBE 
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41:12 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

You don't often get email from matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com. Learn why this 
is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>


External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you 
recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email 
may be unsafe, please click on the “Report Phishing” button on the top right of 
Outlook.



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Reporting:  
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
 - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture 
of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image accompanying this 
article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark that adheres more 
closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced”

The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for placing 
most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond December 2024. 
These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for 
Business and Trade (DBT). These are:

  *   toys
  *   pyrotechnics
  *   recreational craft and personal watercraft
  *   simple pressure vessels
  *   electromagnetic compatibility
  *   non-automatic weighing instruments
  *   measuring instruments
  *   measuring container bottles
  *   lifts
  *   equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
  *   radio equipment
  *   pressure equipment
  *   personal protective equipment (PPE)
  *   gas appliances
  *   machinery
  *   equipment for use outdoors
  *   aerosols
  *   low voltage electrical equipment

[cid:image837079.png@E4FD44AF.1B34231F]
Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed.
​If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do 
not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
immediately.
​The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the 
views of the company, unless specifically stated.
​
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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[PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely

[Matthew Wilson | GBE]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation

Reporting:  
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown
 - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture 
of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note "The image accompanying this 
article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark that adheres more 
closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced"

The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for placing 
most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond December 2024. 
These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for 
Business and Trade (DBT). These are:

  *   toys
  *   pyrotechnics
  *   recreational craft and personal watercraft
  *   simple pressure vessels
  *   electromagnetic compatibility
  *   non-automatic weighing instruments
  *   measuring instruments
  *   measuring container bottles
  *   lifts
  *   equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX)
  *   radio equipment
  *   pressure equipment
  *   personal protective equipment (PPE)
  *   gas appliances
  *   machinery
  *   equipment for use outdoors
  *   aerosols
  *   low voltage electrical equipment

Matthew WilsonMIET
Technical Director
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd
matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com
www.gbelectronics.com
+44 (0) 1903 244 500
Ascot House|Mulberry Close|Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea|West Sussex|BN12 4QY|UK
Certificate Number 10455
​ISO 9001, ISO 14001
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Re: [PSES] UK CE mark extension...

[Dave Kennedy]

This does give us a bit of breathing space…. Thanks for letting us know!

Dave. Kennedy


> On Aug 24, 2021, at 5:51 AM, Matthew Wilson | GBE 
>  wrote:
> 
> For those involved in UKCA Marking, note that the UK's decision to accept CE 
> Marking on equipment put on the market in Great Britain has been extended by 
> a year. An extra year of transition period now exists. The UK will allow CE 
> Marked equipment into Great Britain until 1 January 2023 (Northern Ireland is 
> a special case requiring CE marking). 
> 
> This is a UK decision and it is not an MRA between the UK and EU. UKCA 
> Marking is still available for those who wish to use it, or need to use it, 
> and for equipment which requires 3rd party certification by an Approved Body.
> 
> For the link to the details, see this:
> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain
> 
> Maybe they will sort out a MRA and remove all the duplication and additional 
> red tape having two compliance mark schemes brings! Probably too much of a 
> political banana skin to happen though.
> 
> Regards to all.
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
> addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from 
> your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the 
> sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views 
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> ​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
> number 06210991.
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> 
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Re: [PSES] UK CE mark extension...

[Raymond Li]

Hi Matthew, Thanks for the good news!! Cheers! Scott From: Matthew Wilson | GBESent: Tuesday, 24 August 2021 05:51 PMTo: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: [PSES] UK CE mark extension... For those involved in UKCA Marking, note that the UK's decision to accept CE Marking on equipment put on the market in Great Britain has been extended by a year. An extra year of transition period now exists. The UK will allow CE Marked equipment into Great Britain until 1 January 2023 (Northern Ireland is a special case requiring CE marking). This is a UK decision and it is not an MRA between the UK and EU. UKCA Marking is still available for those who wish to use it, or need to use it, and for equipment which requires 3rd party certification by an Approved Body.For the link to the details, see this:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britainMaybe they will sort out a MRA and remove all the duplication and additional red tape having two compliance mark schemes brings! Probably too much of a political banana skin to happen though.Regards to all.Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated.​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991.​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY.-This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators:Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to:Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>  -

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[PSES] UK CE mark extension...

[Matthew Wilson | GBE]

For those involved in UKCA Marking, note that the UK's decision to accept CE 
Marking on equipment put on the market in Great Britain has been extended by a 
year.  An extra year of transition period now exists. The UK will allow CE 
Marked equipment into Great Britain until 1 January 2023 (Northern Ireland is a 
special case requiring CE marking).

This is a UK decision and it is not an MRA between the UK and EU.   UKCA 
Marking is still available for those who wish to use it, or need to use it, and 
for equipment which requires 3rd party certification by an Approved Body.

For the link to the details, see this:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain

Maybe they will sort out a MRA and remove all the duplication and additional 
red tape having two compliance mark schemes brings!  Probably too much of a 
political banana skin to happen though.

Regards to all.



Matthew Wilson
Technical Director
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd
matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com
https://gbelectronics.uk
+44 (0)1903 244 500
Ascot House//Mulberry Close//Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea//West Sussex//BN12 4QY//UK

Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your 
system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are 
not the views of the company, unless specifically stated.
​GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under 
number 06210991.
​Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West 
Sussex, BN12 4QY.

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Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[David Wilson]

Thanks Charlie, Pete and Chris for your input.

Stay safe,

Dave


> On Mar 18, 2020, at 2:53 AM, Chris Wordley  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave
> 
> The statement on our website is:
> 
> “The mark must be at least 5 mm high, but this requirement is waived for 
> small products under those Directives which require the logo to actually be 
> marked on the product itself (as opposed to provided on the instructions or 
> packaging).
> The directives which allow the size to be reduced are the Machinery, PPE, 
> Medical Devices, ATEX, Lifts, and R+TTE directives. As a rule of thumb, the 
> height of the logo may be reduced to 3 mm if the maximum dimension of the 
> product is less that 150 mm. (This rule is based on an old standard for the 
> marking of text information on products.)”   
>  https://www.conformance.co.uk/kbclook/pdf/49.pdf 
> 
> This was written a few years ago hence the R+TTE reference. 
> 
> It’s taken a while to uncover, but the origin of the 3mm rule of thumb is 
> believed to be EN 82079-1 “Preparation of instructions for use. Structuring, 
> content and presentation. General principles and detailed requirements", in 
> which the minimum recommended graphical symbol height for very simple general 
> symbols (rather than safety signs) marked on products is 3mm. 
> 
> Hope this helps. 
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Chris Wordley
> Senior Consultant
> email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
> Direct Line: 01298 873817
> Mobile: 07856 520321
> 
> Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
> 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 
> 8RG England
> Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk
> Registered in England, Company No. 3478646
> 
>> On 10 Mar 2020, at 15:08, Charlie Blackham  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Eloquently put – maybe you could draft the update to the Blue guide 😊
>>  
>> Charlie Blackham
>> Sulis Consultants Ltd
>> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
>> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
>> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>>  
>> From: Pete Perkins  
>> Sent: 10 March 2020 15:02
>> To: Charlie Blackham ; 
>> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: RE: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>>  
>> Charlie,Under the circumstances you enumerated, would you 
>> then recommend to the manufacturer that they put the
>> ‘reduced’ CE mark on the RED product and also put the larger 5mm CE mark on 
>> the packaging?  This would seem to meet all of the requirements. 
>>  
>> :>) br,  Pete
>>  
>> Peter E Perkins, PE
>> Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
>> PO Box 1067
>> Albany, ORe  97321-0413
>>  
>> 503/452-1201
>>  
>> IEEE Life Fellow
>> IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
>> p.perk...@ieee.org
>>  
>> Entropy ain’t what it used to be
>>  
>> From: Charlie Blackham  
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:41 AM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>>  
>> Dave
>>  
>> The following is stated in the RED
>>  
>> Article 19 General principles of the CE marking 
>> 1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in 
>> Article 30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official 
>> Journal of the European Union EN 
>> 2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
>> affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
>> visible and legible.
>>  
>> The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.
>>  
>> However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide
>>  
>> If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
>> not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of 
>> using a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).
>>  
>> You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is 
>> not possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)
>>  
>> If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having 
>> to justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk 
>> top” audit
>>  
>> Regards
>> Charlie
>>  
>> Charlie Blackham
>> Sulis Consultants Ltd
>> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
>> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
>> Registered in England and Wales, number 054

Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Dave

The statement on our website is:

“The mark must be at least 5 mm high, but this requirement is waived for small 
products under those Directives which require the logo to actually be marked on 
the product itself (as opposed to provided on the instructions or packaging).
The directives which allow the size to be reduced are the Machinery, PPE, 
Medical Devices, ATEX, Lifts, and R+TTE directives. As a rule of thumb, the 
height of the logo may be reduced to 3 mm if the maximum dimension of the 
product is less that 150 mm. (This rule is based on an old standard for the 
marking of text information on products.)”   
 https://www.conformance.co.uk/kbclook/pdf/49.pdf 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/kbclook/pdf/49.pdf> 

This was written a few years ago hence the R+TTE reference. 

It’s taken a while to uncover, but the origin of the 3mm rule of thumb is 
believed to be EN 82079-1 “Preparation of instructions for use. Structuring, 
content and presentation. General principles and detailed requirements", in 
which the minimum recommended graphical symbol height for very simple general 
symbols (rather than safety signs) marked on products is 3mm. 

Hope this helps. 


Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Senior Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
2020 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/our-services/ce-marking-training-risk-assessment>





Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 10 Mar 2020, at 15:08, Charlie Blackham  
> wrote:
> 
> Eloquently put – maybe you could draft the update to the Blue guide 😊
>  
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>  
> From: Pete Perkins mailto:peperkin...@cs.com>> 
> Sent: 10 March 2020 15:02
> To: Charlie Blackham  <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: RE: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>  
> Charlie,Under the circumstances you enumerated, would you 
> then recommend to the manufacturer that they put the
> ‘reduced’ CE mark on the RED product and also put the larger 5mm CE mark on 
> the packaging?  This would seem to meet all of the requirements. 
>  
> :>) br,  Pete
>  
> Peter E Perkins, PE
> Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
> PO Box 1067
> Albany, ORe  97321-0413
>  
> 503/452-1201
>  
> IEEE Life Fellow
> IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
> p.perk...@ieee.org <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org>
>  
> Entropy ain’t what it used to be
>  
> From: Charlie Blackham  <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:41 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>  
> Dave
>  
> The following is stated in the RED
>  
> Article 19 General principles of the CE marking 
> 1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in 
> Article 30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official 
> Journal of the European Union EN 
> 2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
> affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
> visible and legible.
>  
> The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.
>  
> However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide
>  
> If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
> not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of 
> using a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).
>  
> You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is not 
> possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)
>  
> If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having 
> to justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk top” 
> audit
>  
> Regards
> Charlie
>  
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>  
> From: Dave Wilson <0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
> <mailto:0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>> 
> Sent: 10 March

Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Charlie Blackham]

Eloquently put – maybe you could draft the update to the Blue guide 😊

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Pete Perkins 
Sent: 10 March 2020 15:02
To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

Charlie,Under the circumstances you enumerated, would you then 
recommend to the manufacturer that they put the
‘reduced’ CE mark on the RED product and also put the larger 5mm CE mark on the 
packaging?  This would seem to meet all of the requirements.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 1067
Albany, ORe  97321-0413

503/452-1201

IEEE Life Fellow
IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org>

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

From: Charlie Blackham 
mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

Dave

The following is stated in the RED

Article 19 General principles of the CE marking
1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in Article 
30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official Journal of the 
European Union EN
2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
visible and legible.

The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.

However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide

If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of using 
a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).

You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is not 
possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)

If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having to 
justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk top” audit

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Dave Wilson 
<0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org<mailto:0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>>
Sent: 10 March 2020 02:53
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

Hi listmembers,

I came across a statement on conformance.co.uk regarding CE marking and size 
requirements. Although the date shows 2020, it references the R&TTE Directive, 
so I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, it states that for small products it's permissible to reduce the CE 
mark to 3mm, and that this is based on earlier legislation covering marking 
text on products of less than 150mm.

Does anyone know what the earlier legislation was? In the past, I've found some 
surveillance authorities to be sticklers for the 5mm minimum and wondered if 
anyone has been able to cite this earlier legislation in support of a size 
reduction.

Cheers,

Dave
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Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Pete Perkins]

Charlie,Under the circumstances you enumerated, would you then 
recommend to the manufacturer that they put the 

‘reduced’ CE mark on the RED product and also put the larger 5mm CE mark on the 
packaging?  This would seem to meet all of the requirements.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 1067

Albany, ORe  97321-0413

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer

 <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org

 

Entropy ain’t what it used to be

 

From: Charlie Blackham  
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

 

Dave

 

The following is stated in the RED

 

Article 19 General principles of the CE marking 

1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in Article 
30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official Journal of the 
European Union EN 

2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
visible and legible.

 

The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.

 

However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide

 

If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of using 
a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).

 

You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is not 
possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)

 

If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having to 
justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk top” audit

 

Regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: Dave Wilson <0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
<mailto:0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> > 
Sent: 10 March 2020 02:53
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

 

Hi listmembers,

 

I came across a statement on conformance.co.uk regarding CE marking and size 
requirements. Although the date shows 2020, it references the R&TTE Directive, 
so I'm not sure about that.

 

Anyway, it states that for small products it's permissible to reduce the CE 
mark to 3mm, and that this is based on earlier legislation covering marking 
text on products of less than 150mm.

 

Does anyone know what the earlier legislation was? In the past, I've found some 
surveillance authorities to be sticklers for the 5mm minimum and wondered if 
anyone has been able to cite this earlier legislation in support of a size 
reduction.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Charlie Blackham]

Dave

The following is stated in the RED

Article 19 General principles of the CE marking
1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in Article 
30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official Journal of the 
European Union EN
2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
visible and legible.

The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.

However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide

If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of using 
a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).

You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is not 
possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)

If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having to 
justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk top” audit

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Dave Wilson <0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: 10 March 2020 02:53
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

Hi listmembers,

I came across a statement on conformance.co.uk regarding CE marking and size 
requirements. Although the date shows 2020, it references the R&TTE Directive, 
so I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, it states that for small products it's permissible to reduce the CE 
mark to 3mm, and that this is based on earlier legislation covering marking 
text on products of less than 150mm.

Does anyone know what the earlier legislation was? In the past, I've found some 
surveillance authorities to be sticklers for the 5mm minimum and wondered if 
anyone has been able to cite this earlier legislation in support of a size 
reduction.

Cheers,

Dave
-


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[PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Dave Wilson]

 Hi listmembers,
I came across a statement on conformance.co.uk regarding CE marking and size 
requirements. Although the date shows 2020, it references the R&TTE Directive, 
so I'm not sure about that.
Anyway, it states that for small products it's permissible to reduce the CE 
mark to 3mm, and that this is based on earlier legislation covering marking 
text on products of less than 150mm.
Does anyone know what the earlier legislation was? In the past, I've found some 
surveillance authorities to be sticklers for the 5mm minimum and wondered if 
anyone has been able to cite this earlier legislation in support of a size 
reduction.
Cheers,
Dave  

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Re: [PSES] Post Brexit Day Jan 31 2020, where is UK going with CE mark?

[Bill Owsley]

 Maybe it will go better than the transition to the RED.



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 05:54:13 PM EST, Ken Shadoff 
<1050c4779b94-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote:  
 
 Be sure to consider your labeling requirements as a UK importer (a name and 
address in the UK).
There is a UKCA mark that’s been defined as a tentative replacement for the CE 
Mark.
The Withdrawal Agreement covers the transition period ending December 31, 2020. 
 It could be extended by June 30, 2020 if there is agreement from both EU and 
UKOr perhaps by some miracle a trade deal will be approved that allows 
continued use of the CE Mark.

>From Ken Shadoff

On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:01 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:



 

No change likely until January 2021, and probably not then. It probably 
wouldn't be in UK interest to be unnecessarily difficult about EU requirements.
 
 On 2020-02-13 21:22, Rick Linford wrote:
  
 
 
Not seeing update for several months, now post Brexit; Does anyone have insight 
how long the CE will be accepted for UK compliance of ITE? Will other mark be 
required?
 
  
 
Thank you in advance.
 
Rick Linford
 
  
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Re: [PSES] Post Brexit Day Jan 31 2020, where is UK going with CE mark?

[Ken Shadoff]

Be sure to consider your labeling requirements as a UK importer (a name and 
address in the UK).

There is a UKCA mark that’s been defined as a tentative replacement for the CE 
Mark.

The Withdrawal Agreement covers the transition period ending December 31, 2020. 
 It could be extended by June 30, 2020 if there is agreement from both EU and 
UKOr perhaps by some miracle a trade deal will be approved that allows 
continued use of the CE Mark.

From Ken Shadoff

> On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:01 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:
> 
> 
> No change likely until January 2021, and probably not then. It probably 
> wouldn't be in UK interest to be unnecessarily difficult about EU 
> requirements.
> 
> On 2020-02-13 21:22, Rick Linford wrote:
>> Not seeing update for several months, now post Brexit; Does anyone have 
>> insight how long the CE will be accepted for UK compliance of ITE? Will 
>> other mark be required?
>>  
>> Thank you in advance.
>> Rick Linford
>>  
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Re: [PSES] Post Brexit Day Jan 31 2020, where is UK going with CE mark?

[John Woodgate]

No change likely until January 2021, and probably not then. It probably 
wouldn't be in UK interest to be unnecessarily difficult about EU 
requirements.


On 2020-02-13 21:22, Rick Linford wrote:


Not seeing update for several months, now post Brexit; Does anyone 
have insight how long the CE will be accepted for UK compliance of 
ITE? Will other mark be required?


Thank you in advance.

Rick Linford

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[PSES] Post Brexit Day Jan 31 2020, where is UK going with CE mark?

[Rick Linford]

Not seeing update for several months, now post Brexit; Does anyone have insight 
how long the CE will be accepted for UK compliance of ITE? Will other mark be 
required?

Thank you in advance.
Rick Linford


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[PSES] Fwd: CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Hi Matthew,

As you mentioned domestic plugs are covered under GPSD, how can I find the
standard (BS 1363 for UK) under the HS of GPSD?

Thanks and regards,

Scott


Hi Matthew,

You are correct the mains plug should comply with the applicable
requirements of The Plug & Sockets etc Regulations 1994 for UK market.
However cord set and extension cord do not fall into The Plug & Sockets etc
Regulations 1994 but LVD as per the LVD guidelines.  It is interesting they
treated plug, cord set and extension cord all falling into Plug & sockets
etc Regulations 1994 only.  You are right domestic plugs are excluded from
LVD but do plug, cord set and extension cord fall into GPSD (Plug & Sockets
etc Regulations 1994)?  If so, it contradicts the LVD guidelines.

Regards,

Scott


On 17 August 2017 at 03:01, Matthew Larkin  wrote:

> Hi Scott
>
> Sure this has been covered, but to clarify:
>
> In terms of the mains plug for the UK it does need to meet the applicable
> requirements of The Plug & Sockets etc Regulations 1994.
>
> Domestic plugs are excluded from LVD & covered under GPSD.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Matthew
>

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[PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Hi Matthew,

You are correct the mains plug should comply with the applicable
requirements of The Plug & Sockets etc Regulations 1994 for UK market.
However cord set and extension cord do not fall into The Plug & Sockets etc
Regulations 1994 but LVD as per the LVD guidelines.  It is interesting they
treated plug, cord set and extension cord all falling into Plug & sockets
etc Regulations 1994 only.  You are right domestic plugs are excluded from
LVD but do plug, cord set and extension cord fall into GPSD (Plug & Sockets
etc Regulations 1994)?  If so, it contradicts the LVD guidelines.

Regards,

Scott


On 17 August 2017 at 03:01, Matthew Larkin  wrote:

> Hi Scott
>
> Sure this has been covered, but to clarify:
>
> In terms of the mains plug for the UK it does need to meet the applicable
> requirements of The Plug & Sockets etc Regulations 1994.
>
> Domestic plugs are excluded from LVD & covered under GPSD.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Matthew
>

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Dear All,

Appreciate your valuable comments!  It clears my mind that CE mark does not 
indicate the legal use of the product in all member countries.  Thanks!

It sounds a silly question and knew clearly, but not!  For another example, 
recently, we had meetings with accredited laboratory and suppliers on the 
safety compliance of cord sets and extension cords.  Although it is clear in 
LVD guideline of last version and current version that those products must 
comply with LVD, they still believe complying with SI 1994 for UK market is 
sufficient.

Thanks and regards,

Scott




On 16/8/2017, 2:20 AM, "Pete Perkins" <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> 
wrote:

Charlie,

Thanx for your remarks (and those of John W, too) clarifying details.  

I do remember, however, that the EU and the UK started on a 10 year 
Voltage harmonization project moving toward 230V at 1 V change per year.  The 
EU completed the project but the Brits seemed to fall apart after a year or two 
of reducing the Voltage.  Not sure if that was ever sorted out properly or if 
the tolerance was adjusted to make it seem to work.  

I still recommend to manufacturers to rate their universal products 
100/120/240V to cover everything.  Testing to 264 (240+10%) always gives 
heartburn to the designers tho.  

My earlier remarks were given knowing the latitude given by 'modern' 
standards such as 60950 and 61010  which do allow for National Differences 
(including plugs, etc).  Many other standards are still way behind the times 
and are not developed is this way.  This is a nightmare for manufacturers and 
test houses and will remain so until long after many of us care.  

Anyway all of us OF's (Old Fellows, in polite company) like to 
reminisce.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:20 AM
To: Pete Perkins ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Mark

Pete 

Thanks for some clarification 😊

I'd missed the initial parts about plugs - article 10(10) cited in the OP 
is solely related to the Radio Spectrum and nothing to do with plugs, or safety 
under article 3.1(a).

Whilst the UK might be 240V and the EU 220V, they are actually harmonised 
as "230 V (-6% / +10%)" 

CE marking is a "minimal" requirement and items such as the UK "Statutory 
Instrument 1768:1994 - The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" 
may still be applied on a national basis - and these requirements typically 
appear in Special National Conditions in Harmonised Standards such as EN 
60950-1 - in fact EN 60950-1 makes reference to numerous national requirements 
for plugs and/or cord sets

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 17:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification r

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for your confirmation!

Regards,

Scott



On 16/8/2017, 12:31 AM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

Yes, it's a requirement in the RED - article 10 states:

2.Manufacturers shall ensure that radio equipment shall be so constructed 
that it can be operated in at least one Member State without infringing 
applicable requirements on the use of radio spectrum.


Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: Charlie Blackham ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  
wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked 
to the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as 
detailed below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive 
should NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 15:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service 
in geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules 
in the Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some 
countries. But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it 
(them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
        Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or 
Ireland only.  Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer" 
 wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 
2017 specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) 
of Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day 
following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European 
Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 
2017 and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in 
conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Pete Perkins]

Charlie,

Thanx for your remarks (and those of John W, too) clarifying details.  

I do remember, however, that the EU and the UK started on a 10 year 
Voltage harmonization project moving toward 230V at 1 V change per year.  The 
EU completed the project but the Brits seemed to fall apart after a year or two 
of reducing the Voltage.  Not sure if that was ever sorted out properly or if 
the tolerance was adjusted to make it seem to work.  

I still recommend to manufacturers to rate their universal products 
100/120/240V to cover everything.  Testing to 264 (240+10%) always gives 
heartburn to the designers tho.  

My earlier remarks were given knowing the latitude given by 'modern' 
standards such as 60950 and 61010  which do allow for National Differences 
(including plugs, etc).  Many other standards are still way behind the times 
and are not developed is this way.  This is a nightmare for manufacturers and 
test houses and will remain so until long after many of us care.  

Anyway all of us OF's (Old Fellows, in polite company) like to 
reminisce.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:20 AM
To: Pete Perkins ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Mark

Pete 

Thanks for some clarification 😊

I'd missed the initial parts about plugs - article 10(10) cited in the OP is 
solely related to the Radio Spectrum and nothing to do with plugs, or safety 
under article 3.1(a).

Whilst the UK might be 240V and the EU 220V, they are actually harmonised as 
"230 V (-6% / +10%)" 

CE marking is a "minimal" requirement and items such as the UK "Statutory 
Instrument 1768:1994 - The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" 
may still be applied on a national basis - and these requirements typically 
appear in Special National Conditions in Harmonised Standards such as EN 
60950-1 - in fact EN 60950-1 makes reference to numerous national requirements 
for plugs and/or cord sets

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 17:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification requirements) 
or Euro plugs (with their own certification requirements).  This seems like a 
case for restricting the use because of the plugs and sockets.   
The same comments could be made for smart refrigerators or any other 
common appliance.  

So, I agree, the CE marking is required in each case even tho the 
product use is limited by such features.  

This all has brought plenty of confusion; all of the needed standards 
are not yet included in the OJ listing (and it may never be complete because of 
the opportunity to apply IoT radios to so many devices).  Manufacturers and 
test houses will be working ahead of the Euro bureaucrats and their 'official' 
lists for some time it appears.  

Scott's dilemma is not unique and manufacturers are going to have to 
make reasonable interpretations and push the EU bureaucrats to formalize t

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Charlie Blackham]

Pete 

Thanks for some clarification 😊

I'd missed the initial parts about plugs - article 10(10) cited in the OP is 
solely related to the Radio Spectrum and nothing to do with plugs, or safety 
under article 3.1(a).

Whilst the UK might be 240V and the EU 220V, they are actually harmonised as 
"230 V (-6% / +10%)" 

CE marking is a "minimal" requirement and items such as the UK "Statutory 
Instrument 1768:1994 - The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994" 
may still be applied on a national basis - and these requirements typically 
appear in Special National Conditions in Harmonised Standards such as EN 
60950-1 - in fact EN 60950-1 makes reference to numerous national requirements 
for plugs and/or cord sets

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 17:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification requirements) 
or Euro plugs (with their own certification requirements).  This seems like a 
case for restricting the use because of the plugs and sockets.   
The same comments could be made for smart refrigerators or any other 
common appliance.  

So, I agree, the CE marking is required in each case even tho the 
product use is limited by such features.  

This all has brought plenty of confusion; all of the needed standards 
are not yet included in the OJ listing (and it may never be complete because of 
the opportunity to apply IoT radios to so many devices).  Manufacturers and 
test houses will be working ahead of the Euro bureaucrats and their 'official' 
lists for some time it appears.  

Scott's dilemma is not unique and manufacturers are going to have to 
make reasonable interpretations and push the EU bureaucrats to formalize their 
requirements to include these reasonable interpretations.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, 
ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:58 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

The RED calls up the CE Mark Directive. The RED is a free download, so you need 
have no trouble in studying it. I would even send it to you if the list allowed 
attachments, but it doesn't.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M 
Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[John Woodgate]

Scott was asking about the RED and CE Mark; the bit about mains plugs was an 
example of 'in some countries'. 

The mains voltage is 230 V +/-10 %  across all of EU and EFTA, but it does tend 
to be lower in former 220 V countries and higher in Great Britain (not UK, 
because Northern Ireland was on 230 V before harmonization).

The CE Mark is about customs regulations, not about whether a product can be 
used in a country.  You can freely ship UK  products, with UK mains plugs, from 
Poland through Germany and France, even though they can't legally be used in 
those countries.

I often get up to 249 V!

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:peperkin...@cs.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 17:57
To: 'John Woodgate' ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Cc: 'Scott Xe' 
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Mark

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification requirements) 
or Euro plugs (with their own certification requirements).  This seems like a 
case for restricting the use because of the plugs and sockets.   
The same comments could be made for smart refrigerators or any other 
common appliance.  

So, I agree, the CE marking is required in each case even tho the 
product use is limited by such features.  

This all has brought plenty of confusion; all of the needed standards 
are not yet included in the OJ listing (and it may never be complete because of 
the opportunity to apply IoT radios to so many devices).  Manufacturers and 
test houses will be working ahead of the Euro bureaucrats and their 'official' 
lists for some time it appears.  

Scott's dilemma is not unique and manufacturers are going to have to 
make reasonable interpretations and push the EU bureaucrats to formalize their 
requirements to include these reasonable interpretations.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, 
ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:58 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

The RED calls up the CE Mark Directive. The RED is a free download, so you need 
have no trouble in studying it. I would even send it to you if the list allowed 
attachments, but it doesn't.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M 
Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Pete Perkins]

Scott, John et al,

My take on Scott's question is one that is being asked more routinely 
these days as the IoT spreads to many more product types.  

Within the EU there are two principle operating zones: UK at 240V and 
the rest of the EU at 220V.  Attachment plugs and sockets are unique between 
these two so the power cord and plug and associated electrical are normally 
customized for each market (not as much an issue for electronic power 
supplies).  Additionally, the inclusion of an Inet connexion complicates the 
certification as the RED is now invoked.  IT is clear that the usual safety 
requirements/standards for a lot of equipment have not yet fully harmonized 
across these differences and the manufacturer falls into the dilemma Scott 
references; products with a UK plug cannot be used in Euro socket countries nor 
vice-versa.  There may be other restrictive issues for other products, e.g. 
motor driven appliances.  In the end most manufacturers work to design a single 
product and adapt it to each market area.  This has been straightforward for 
electronic products for many years as the standards have worked to provide for 
these differences in connexion, etc within the standards.  This seems more 
difficult moving ahead as the standards have not anticipated these changes.  
Scott seems to be referring to something like a remote power tap with 
IoT that will require UK plugs (with their unique certification requirements) 
or Euro plugs (with their own certification requirements).  This seems like a 
case for restricting the use because of the plugs and sockets.   
The same comments could be made for smart refrigerators or any other 
common appliance.  

So, I agree, the CE marking is required in each case even tho the 
product use is limited by such features.  

This all has brought plenty of confusion; all of the needed standards 
are not yet included in the OJ listing (and it may never be complete because of 
the opportunity to apply IoT radios to so many devices).  Manufacturers and 
test houses will be working ahead of the Euro bureaucrats and their 'official' 
lists for some time it appears.  

Scott's dilemma is not unique and manufacturers are going to have to 
make reasonable interpretations and push the EU bureaucrats to formalize their 
requirements to include these reasonable interpretations.  

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

p.perk...@ieee.org

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:58 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

The RED calls up the CE Mark Directive. The RED is a free download, so you need 
have no trouble in studying it. I would even send it to you if the list allowed 
attachments, but it doesn't.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M 
Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive should 
NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247


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For p

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

Yes, it's a requirement in the RED - article 10 states:

2.Manufacturers shall ensure that radio equipment shall be so constructed that 
it can be operated in at least one Member State without infringing applicable 
requirements on the use of radio spectrum.


Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive should 
NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 15:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
    Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service in 
geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules in 
the Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some 
countries. But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
    Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland 
only.  Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  
wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 
specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of 
Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day 
following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, 
and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 
and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in 
conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the 
member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of 
Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[John Woodgate]

The RED calls up the CE Mark Directive. The RED is a free download, so you need 
have no trouble in studying it. I would even send it to you if the list allowed 
attachments, but it doesn't.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 16:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive should 
NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Hi Charlie,

“The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state”

It is a requirement of RED, not CE Mark?

Thanks and regards,

Scott



On 15/8/2017, 11:00 PM, "Charlie Blackham"  wrote:

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to 
the RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive should 
NOT be placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 15:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
    Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service in 
geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules in 
the Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some 
countries. But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland 
only.  Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  
wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 
specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of 
Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day 
following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, 
and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 
and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in 
conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the 
member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of 
Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3229027-59
Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de

» globalnorm.de
» Subscribe to the GLOBALNORM Product Compliance Newsletter now.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not pe

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

The product should be CE marked to the RED - a product may be CE marked to the 
RED provided that it can be used in at least one member state
The information to the user should be provided on the packaging as detailed 
below
The "alert mark", which is (!), as used under the R&TTE Directive should NOT be 
placed after the CE mark as this is not part of the RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 15:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Mark

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service in 
geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules in the 
Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some countries. 
But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland only. 
 Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  
wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 
specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of 
Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 and 
is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in conformity 
with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of 
Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3229027-59
Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de

» globalnorm.de
» Subscribe to the GLOBALNORM Product Compliance Newsletter now.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site 
at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

If a product is restricted (due to restrictions on putting into service in 
geographical area) to be used in some countries, there is a contradiction to 
the CE Mark on the product that allows to be free flow between countries.  
Doesn’t the free movement mean the allowed use in the countries?

Regards,

Scott




On 15/8/2017, 10:13 PM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules in the 
Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some countries. 
But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
    Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of 
products between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product 
has below restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be 
affixed a CE Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland only. 
 Is a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  
wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 
specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of 
Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day following 
that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 and 
is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in conformity 
with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of 
Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3229027-59
Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de

» globalnorm.de
» Subscribe to the GLOBALNORM Product Compliance Newsletter now.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site 
at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:

Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[John Woodgate]

What do you mean by 'below restriction'? There are detailed rules in the 
Regulation about products that are only allowed to be used in some countries. 
But the CE mark must be affixed anyway.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2017 14:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE Mark

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of products 
between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product has below 
restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be affixed a CE 
Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland only.  Is 
a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3229027-59
Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de

» globalnorm.de
» Subscribe to the GLOBALNORM Product Compliance Newsletter now.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

The CE Mark is a conformity scheme that allows for the free flow of products 
between countries in the European Economic Area (EEA).  If a product has below 
restriction in RED in some member countries, can the product be affixed a CE 
Mark?

Same as a UK plug fitted, the product should be used in UK or Ireland only.  Is 
a CE Mark required to be affixed on the product?

Thanks and regards,

Scott





On 26/7/2017, 3:22 PM, "Michael Loerzer"  wrote:

Hi,

the Commission has published the 

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2017/1354 of 20 July 2017 specifying
how to present the information provided for in Article 10(10) of Directive
2014/53/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32017R1354&from
=DE

Article 3

This Regulation shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that
of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union, and it
shall apply as of 9 August 2018.

Radio equipment, which is placed on the market after 8 August 2017 and is in
conformity with this Regulation, shall be deemed to be in conformity with
Article 10(10) of Directive 2014/53/EU.

An EU regulation don´t require a national transposition in the member
states.

Michael Loerzer

Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Michael Loerzer
Managing Director
Regulatory Affairs Specialist
Chairman Product Conformity Topic Group of the German Committee of Standards
Users in DIN (ANP-TGP)


Globalnorm GmbH
Kurfuerstenstr. 112
10787 Berlin, Germany
 
Phone +49 30 3229027-51
Cell +49 170 3229027
Fax +49 30 3229027-59
Mailmichael.loer...@globalnorm.de

» globalnorm.de
» Subscribe to the GLOBALNORM Product Compliance Newsletter now.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[STEVENSON Philip]

Dear Ken thanks for your advice. The Golden Yellow colour we are planning to 
use are the same agreed colour used for the products identification markings, 
so this colour shouldn’t be an issue.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



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Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 March 2016 18:04
To: STEVENSON Philip
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

Philip;
I usually see it as black on a while label, or cast/molded into products in 
whatever colo(u)r that product case already is.  I've never seen it in yellow 
and typically would avoid using red, yellow, hot pink, or anything that might 
look at first glance like a warning, but I really don't think there's much 
chance for confusion there.  I have not seen any requirements that dictate 
which colors can be used for the CE mark and which can't.

These folks are of the opinion that there is no color requirement:

http://siirasconsulting.com/site1/?page_id=6050

https://cemarking.net/affixing-ce-marking/

-Ken A

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, STEVENSON Philip 
mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>>
 wrote:
Dear Members

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed “CE” Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
“visibly” requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed “CE” mark to be yellow?

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.

Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[STEVENSON Philip]

Thanks Elliott for your help with this matter. This appears to be the 
collective of the members so far.


Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.

Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


From: Elliott Martinson [mailto:elliott.martin...@etcconnect.com]
Sent: 01 March 2016 17:50
To: STEVENSON Philip; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Colour of affixed CE Mark?

https://cemarking.net/
"There are no specific color requirements for the letters and background of the 
CE mark. In other words, it is not required to print the letters 'CE' in black 
against a white background. However, the color schemes for the foreground and 
background should be sufficiently complementary, so that the CE logo is clearly 
visible. The minimum dimension of the CE mark must be 5 mm in height. If the 
size is enlarged, the letters CE must be in proportion to the standard version 
as shown. Please find here example of the CE logo in different file formats: 
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/faq/ce-mark.htm The CE mark sometimes is 
accompanied by a four-digit number. This is a reference number of the Notified 
Body that has been involved in the conformity assessment 
process.<https://cemarking.net/notified-bodies-explained/>"

I've seen very many white CE marks on products colored black.

Elliott Martinson
Test Technician I
Electronic Theatre Controls
3031 N PLEASANT VIEW RD
MIDDLETON WI 53562-4809
Work: 608.824.5696 / Cell: 608.209.9897
elliott.martin...@etcconnect.com

From: STEVENSON Philip [mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 10:42 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

Dear Members

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.

Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the

Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[STEVENSON Philip]

The Michael for taking the time to provide this advice.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.

Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com]
Sent: 01 March 2016 17:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

Hello all,

Yep, it's all good.   Yellow sounds lovely.

You can check out section 4.5.1.4 of the EU Blue Guide, on the principles of 
affixing the CE Mark...
http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/12661/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native

"The CE marking can take different forms (e.g. colour, solid/hollow) as long as 
it remains visible, legible and respects its proportions."


Thanks,

Michael.


Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry
Web:   www.acbcert.com<http://www.acbcert.com/>

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com<mailto:micha...@acbcert.com>
Direct phone:(+1) 703 468 1746   (USA area code)
Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700
Corporate office fax:USA:   (+1) 703 847 6888






From: Rodney Davis [mailto:rodney.da...@mitel.com]
Sent: 01 March 2016 17:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?


size , dimensions and proportionality are all that I have ever read. I have 
never come across colour requirements, I suggest go with yellow! Will be 
interesting if any one has a reference?


Rodney Davis


From: STEVENSON Philip 
mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?


Dear Members



I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?



I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.



Regards



Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales

Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB

www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>




Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.



The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.



Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273




-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

Al

Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[IBM Ken]

Philip;
I usually see it as black on a while label, or cast/molded into products in
whatever colo(u)r that product case already is.  I've never seen it in
yellow and typically would avoid using red, yellow, hot pink, or anything
that might look at first glance like a warning, but I really don't think
there's much chance for confusion there.  I have not seen any requirements
that dictate which colors can be used for the CE mark and which can't.

These folks are of the opinion that there is no color requirement:

http://siirasconsulting.com/site1/?page_id=6050

https://cemarking.net/affixing-ce-marking/

-Ken A

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, STEVENSON Philip <
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com> wrote:

> Dear Members
>
>
>
> I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed “CE” Mark
> attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The
> product we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and
> black markings are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore
> not meeting the “visibly” requirement. The other markings on the product
> are yellow. Therefore is it acceptable for the affixed “CE” mark to be
> yellow?
>
>
>
> I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact
> directly instead of via the listing my Email address is
> philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Philip Stevenson
> Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast
>
> *Thales*
>
>
> *Land & Air SystemsAlanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB*
>
> www.thalesgroup.com/uk
>
> Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
> e-mail: philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this
> email.*
>
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended
> only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
> this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received
> this e-mail in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200]
> and delete it and all copies from your system.
>
>
>
> *Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered
> Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone,
> Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273*
>
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
>

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[Elliott Martinson]

https://cemarking.net/
"There are no specific color requirements for the letters and background of the 
CE mark. In other words, it is not required to print the letters 'CE' in black 
against a white background. However, the color schemes for the foreground and 
background should be sufficiently complementary, so that the CE logo is clearly 
visible. The minimum dimension of the CE mark must be 5 mm in height. If the 
size is enlarged, the letters CE must be in proportion to the standard version 
as shown. Please find here example of the CE logo in different file formats: 
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/faq/ce-mark.htm The CE mark sometimes is 
accompanied by a four-digit number. This is a reference number of the Notified 
Body that has been involved in the conformity assessment 
process.<https://cemarking.net/notified-bodies-explained/>"

I've seen very many white CE marks on products colored black.

Elliott Martinson
Test Technician I
Electronic Theatre Controls
3031 N PLEASANT VIEW RD
MIDDLETON WI 53562-4809
Work: 608.824.5696 / Cell: 608.209.9897
elliott.martin...@etcconnect.com

From: STEVENSON Philip [mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 10:42 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

Dear Members

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It is intended only 
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is 
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, 
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail 
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.

Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[Michael Derby]

Hello all,

 

Yep, it's all good.   Yellow sounds lovely.

 

You can check out section 4.5.1.4 of the EU Blue Guide, on the principles of
affixing the CE Mark.

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/12661/attachments/1/translations/en/r
enditions/native

 

"The CE marking can take different forms (e.g. colour, solid/hollow) as long
as it remains visible, legible and respects its proportions."

 

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com <http://www.acbcert.com/>  

  

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com <mailto:micha...@acbcert.com>  

Direct phone:(+1) 703 468 1746   (USA area code) 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

  

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

Corporate office fax:USA:   (+1) 703 847 6888 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Rodney Davis [mailto:rodney.da...@mitel.com] 
Sent: 01 March 2016 17:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

 

size , dimensions and proportionality are all that I have ever read. I have
never come across colour requirements, I suggest go with yellow! Will be
interesting if any one has a reference?

 

Rodney Davis

 

  _  

From: STEVENSON Philip mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark? 

 

Dear Members

 

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The
product we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and
black markings are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not
meeting the "visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are
yellow. Therefore is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?  

 

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com
<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com> .

 

Regards

 

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales

Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB

 <http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk> www.thalesgroup.com/uk

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com
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Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[Chuck McDowell]

Our powered loudspeaker products are typically non-reflective black color 
overall, and we use white or matt silver for required product labeling and CE 
label marking.

Chuck McDowell
Compliance Specialist
Meyer Sound Laboratories Inc.

From: STEVENSON Philip [mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 8:42 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

Dear Members

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



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Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
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Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273


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Re: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[Rodney Davis]

size , dimensions and proportionality are all that I have ever read. I have 
never come across colour requirements, I suggest go with yellow! Will be 
interesting if any one has a reference?


Rodney Davis


From: STEVENSON Philip 
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?


Dear Members



I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?



I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.



Regards



Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales

Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB

www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>




Please consider the environment before printing a hard copy of this email.



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circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this 
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in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) [28 905200] and delete it and 
all copies from your system.



Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273





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e-mail. Mitel does not accept any liability for breach of security, error or 
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[PSES] Colour of affixed CE Mark?

[STEVENSON Philip]

Dear Members

I am writing to ask if there any requirements for the affixed "CE" Mark 
attached to a product must be a set colour i.e. must it be black? The product 
we are currently in the progress of CE Marking is dark grey and black markings 
are not clearly visible on this background, and therefore not meeting the 
"visibly" requirement. The other markings on the product are yellow. Therefore 
is it acceptable for the affixed "CE" mark to be yellow?

I would be greatly for the members help. If you would prefer to contact 
directly instead of via the listing my Email address is 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>.

Regards

Philip Stevenson
Senior Specialist Engineer - Electronics, Advanced Weapons, Belfast

Thales
Land & Air Systems
Alanbrooke Road, Belfast, Northern Ireland, BT6 9HB
www.thalesgroup.com/uk<http://www.thalesgroup.com/uk>

Tel: +44 (0)28 90465665
e-mail: 
philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com<mailto:philip.steven...@uk.thalesgroup.com>



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Thales UK Limited. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered 
Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, 
Surrey KT15 2NX. Registered Number: 868273



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Re: [PSES] In-situ testing of Machines for CE Mark

[Doug Nix]

Jim,

In-situ testing is the norm for these kinds of machines in my experience. 
Depending on whether the machine is fully assembled at the manufacturer or not 
determines where the testing is done. If the machine can qualify as a “fixed 
installation” under the EMC Directive (Art. 13), testing may not be required. 
BE VERY CAREFUL with designating a machine or an assembly as part of a fixed 
installation, as the owner is required to understand EMC and maintain the 
compliance of the equipment over its lifetime. Many customers are not too happy 
about that idea.

Doug Nix

> On 26-Feb-16, at 14:20, Jim Hulbert  wrote:
> 
> Fellow Compliance Professionals,
>  
> I understand that equipment must be CE marked and comply with all applicable 
> Directives before being placed into service within the EU.  However, custom 
> one-of-a-kind machines can be a challenge.  Are there any provisions within 
> the EU Directives (Machinery & EMC) for in-situ testing & assessment for CE 
> compliance of custom machinery equipment?  This would be for a large machine 
> designed and manufactured outside the EU, broken down for shipment, and then 
> re-assembled at the customer site within the EU.  If in-situ is allowed, that 
> would mean shipping into the EU prior to CE marking, so  how would customs be 
> handled?  
>  
> Thanks for any insight.
>  
> Jim Hulbert
>  
> 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
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> 
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>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
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[PSES] In-situ testing of Machines for CE Mark

[Jim Hulbert]

Fellow Compliance Professionals,

I understand that equipment must be CE marked and comply with all applicable 
Directives before being placed into service within the EU.  However, custom 
one-of-a-kind machines can be a challenge.  Are there any provisions within the 
EU Directives (Machinery & EMC) for in-situ testing & assessment for CE 
compliance of custom machinery equipment?  This would be for a large machine 
designed and manufactured outside the EU, broken down for shipment, and then 
re-assembled at the customer site within the EU.  If in-situ is allowed, that 
would mean shipping into the EU prior to CE marking, so  how would customs be 
handled?

Thanks for any insight.

Jim Hulbert





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Re: [PSES] Question for CE mark (fogging machine)

[Rajneesh Raveendran]

Hi,

You need to go through the directives to understand which of the directives
your product needs to comply with. Once you understand that, you need to
test your product under the applicable standard/standards under that
directive. Hope this helps...

Regards,
Rajneesh

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Youngsik Kim  wrote:

> How does this correspond to any of these categories?
>
>
> 2016-02-02 12:04 GMT+09:00 Rajneesh Raveendran <
> rajneesh.raveend...@seagate.com>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Check the link
>> http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/index_en.htm
>>  to
>> see the list of applicable directives and see to which one does your
>> product closely relate to.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rajneesh
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Youngsik Kim 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> HI.
>>> I have some question for CE mark
>>> We are making a fogging machine(similar products site;
>>> http://www.foggingmachine.net/mini-fogging-machine.htm
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.foggingmachine.net_mini-2Dfogging-2Dmachine.htm&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=peDn-6oTtixodca_ijnUEdijOR8_4uWuiHKgSwtt-p4&e=>
>>> )
>>>
>>> No used electric and electronics part, only used butane gas can
>>>
>>> It should be applied to some of the standard
>>> And, that category is a what
>>>
>>> Anyone with any ideas?
>>> -
>>> 
>>>
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail
>>> to <emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>>
>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=Z7akmRxe4MLy3zwe9icRNmLVgw6lkBkyvuVI5ks7zIo&e=>
>>>
>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>>> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=JhMcMqqOJVbEQZpd5bT0M1nbk_az0WbORnUfYdacar0&e=>
>>> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>>
>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=nse64VLtEyRW89mxntKYwtPtmlnzHOeBzlP1nfRT8aQ&e=>
>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>>> unsubscribe)
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=hl14ITGnQQVR3y97xzdXneYm3GIzb4exugWk_EfXt0s&e=>
>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=YxxfQZgHoeN-RquyirCr2zSmy3OOh5prEHv4qEQw1sE&e=>
>>>
>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>>> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>>>
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>>> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org>
>>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [PSES] Question for CE mark (fogging machine)

[Youngsik Kim]

How does this correspond to any of these categories?


2016-02-02 12:04 GMT+09:00 Rajneesh Raveendran <
rajneesh.raveend...@seagate.com>:

> Hi,
>
> Check the link
> http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/index_en.htm
>  to
> see the list of applicable directives and see to which one does your
> product closely relate to.
>
> Regards,
> Rajneesh
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Youngsik Kim  wrote:
>
>> HI.
>> I have some question for CE mark
>> We are making a fogging machine(similar products site;
>> http://www.foggingmachine.net/mini-fogging-machine.htm
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.foggingmachine.net_mini-2Dfogging-2Dmachine.htm&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=peDn-6oTtixodca_ijnUEdijOR8_4uWuiHKgSwtt-p4&e=>
>> )
>>
>> No used electric and electronics part, only used butane gas can
>>
>> It should be applied to some of the standard
>> And, that category is a what
>>
>> Anyone with any ideas?
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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Re: [PSES] Question for CE mark (fogging machine)

[Rajneesh Raveendran]

Hi,

Check the link
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/index_en.htm
to
see the list of applicable directives and see to which one does your
product closely relate to.

Regards,
Rajneesh

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Youngsik Kim  wrote:

> HI.
> I have some question for CE mark
> We are making a fogging machine(similar products site;
> http://www.foggingmachine.net/mini-fogging-machine.htm
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.foggingmachine.net_mini-2Dfogging-2Dmachine.htm&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=peDn-6oTtixodca_ijnUEdijOR8_4uWuiHKgSwtt-p4&e=>
> )
>
> No used electric and electronics part, only used butane gas can
>
> It should be applied to some of the standard
> And, that category is a what
>
> Anyone with any ideas?
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
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> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=CwMFaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=VJgA_EBUwtT3Y_InIgxxfms70fmGlTJkTWsGAI09Sb0&m=b-yw6ivpzmNKnK1ECJkEEU7WWgKed5t0-dATUvKKXVA&s=nse64VLtEyRW89mxntKYwtPtmlnzHOeBzlP1nfRT8aQ&e=>
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[PSES] Question for CE mark (fogging machine)

[Youngsik Kim]

HI.
I have some question for CE mark
We are making a fogging machine(similar products site;
http://www.foggingmachine.net/mini-fogging-machine.htm)

No used electric and electronics part, only used butane gas can

It should be applied to some of the standard
And, that category is a what

Anyone with any ideas?

-

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[PSES] Consultant in EU for CE Mark of Lighting

[John Allen]

Hi,


We have a client in France looking for a consultant to help their engineers 
with CE.  Must reside in the EU, ideally you're in France.  Please confirm your 
experience with EN60598, EN61347, and EN62031 to my direct email.


Best Regards,


John

jral...@productsafetyinc.com


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Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated Fri, 27 Sep 2013, 
Scott Xe  writes:


Technically, yes it is a solution but still build to more than one 
standard. The EU plug was proposed by Volex long time ago but seems no 
more talk about EU plug any more.  Like UK, so far still 240 Vac 
whereas it says 230Vac country.


There is no point in considering such matters without taking into 
account two absolutely vital issues:


1. How do we get there from here?

  - changing some 10 billion wall-sockets and plugs Europe-wide, because 
using adapters just perpetuates the present situation and makes it more 
complicated still;


 - changing the mains voltage from 230 V +4.34% to 230 V +/-0% (even if 
it were possible to have a zero tolerance) reduces the system capacity 
by 8.7%.


2. What will it cost?

In view of 1. above, this hardly need any comment.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

Obviously, there is still a long way to go for this mission.  Hope to have
more active approach making the dream come truth.


On 27/9/13 2:07 AM, "John Woodgate"  wrote:

> In message , dated Fri, 27 Sep 2013,
> Scott Xe  writes:
> 
>> It said CE mark is a passport to enter into Europe and the products can
>> be moved freely from one country to the other.  Is it just an ultimate
>> goal?  
> 
> In one sense, yes, but it's not in the far future, it's here already.
> 
>> In reality, the German products cannot be sold in the UK due to plug
>> difference for general AC products
> 
> This solved by detachable mains leads or plug converters.

Technically, yes it is a solution but still build to more than one standard.
The EU plug was proposed by Volex long time ago but seems no more talk about
EU plug any more.  Like UK, so far still 240 Vac whereas it says 230Vac
country.
> 
>> or tv system difference for TVs.
> 
> European TVs work on all or nearly all European TV systems, and some
> work on American systems and mains voltage as well. It's an aspect of
> 'globalization', which is attacked by some people who don't know about
> its achievements, only its failures.

In this area, all are moving to the right direction.  We do not know how
soon all countries are moving into DVB-T2 then one TV for all countries.
Currently DVB-T2 channels are still a small group whereas DVB-T covering
DVB-T2 features in European countries.

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Re: [PSES] CE Mark

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated Fri, 27 Sep 2013, 
Scott Xe  writes:


It said CE mark is a passport to enter into Europe and the products can 
be moved freely from one country to the other.  Is it just an ultimate 
goal?  


In one sense, yes, but it's not in the far future, it's here already.

In reality, the German products cannot be sold in the UK due to plug 
difference for general AC products


This solved by detachable mains leads or plug converters.


or tv system difference for TVs.


European TVs work on all or nearly all European TV systems, and some 
work on American systems and mains voltage as well. It's an aspect of 
'globalization', which is attacked by some people who don't know about 
its achievements, only its failures.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] CE Mark

[Scott Xe]

It said CE mark is a passport to enter into Europe and the products can be
moved freely from one country to the other.  Is it just an ultimate goal?
In reality, the German products cannot be sold in the UK due to plug
difference for general AC products or tv system difference for TVs.

Thanks and regards,

Scott


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Re: [PSES] CE mark for China?

[Ed Price]

To enforce their trademark, wouldn't the CE mark have to be displaying a
little "TM" or an "R in a circle" next to the CE? Perhaps European trademark
marking law is different than in the USA, but here, to maintain your
trademark, you would have to mark the mark.

 

Ed Price

El Cajon, CA

USA

 

 -Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE mark for China?

 

Gary

 

 

The "CE" mark is, I believe, now trademarked.

 

Regards

Charlie

 


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Re: [PSES] CE mark for China?

[Charlie Blackham]

Gary

> A colleague, whom I appreciate a great deal has an unfortunate 
>habit of taking Wikipedia as valid reference data
Why not change the entry yourself and suggest he re-reads it? :)


This came up a few years ago and a question was even asked in the EU parliament:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=WQ&reference=P-2007-5938&language=EN

The answer includes: 
"The Commission is aware that there exists the misconception attributing CE 
marking the meaning 'Chinese export'. The Commission is not aware of the 
existence of a 'China export mark' but considers that the mark the Honourable 
Member refers to constitute the CE marking as foreseen in the European 
legislation without, however, respecting the dimensions and proportions 
prescribed therein."

The "CE" mark is, I believe, now trademarked.

Regards
Charlie

-Original Message-
From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] 
Sent: 02 April 2012 21:52
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] FW: CE mark for China?

I understand why we can't send jpg's and bitmaps but that is going to make this 
a bit more complicated - but I'll give it a try. If you would follow the link.

A colleague, whom I appreciate a great deal has an unfortunate habit of taking 
Wikipedia as valid reference data. I'm trying to break him of this habit, but 
in the meantime he sent me this interesting little tidbit that claims there are 
Chinese manufactures who think CE is China Export or China Electronics and 
apply a very famous mark


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark


Then select China Export in the table of contents or scroll down to that point. 
You'll see a couple of CE marks.

There is also some adjoining text that describes the CE mark and its legal use 
etc. 

Taken collectively I'm believe it's pretty clear that its they can't do that 
and send it to the EU. I mostly trying to figure out if anybody has ever seen 
such a thing, particularly our listsever friends that are much more familiar 
with Chinese marks than I.

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[PSES] FW: CE mark for China?

[McInturff, Gary]

I understand why we can't send jpg's and bitmaps but that is going to make this 
a bit more complicated - but I'll give it a try. If you would follow the link.

A colleague, whom I appreciate a great deal has an unfortunate habit of taking 
Wikipedia as valid reference data. I'm trying to break him of this habit, but 
in the meantime he sent me this interesting little tidbit that claims there are 
Chinese manufactures who think CE is China Export or China Electronics and 
apply a very famous mark


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark


Then select China Export in the table of contents or scroll down to that point. 
You'll see a couple of CE marks.

There is also some adjoining text that describes the CE mark and its legal use 
etc. 

Taken collectively I'm believe it's pretty clear that its they can't do that 
and send it to the EU. I mostly trying to figure out if anybody has ever seen 
such a thing, particularly our listsever friends that are much more familiar 
with Chinese marks than I.

-

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] CE Mark with exclamation mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Also, note subclause 22 of the ERO RTTE site.
http://www.ero.dk/rtte


On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Aldous, Scott  wrote:


Here is the guidance doc for the R&TTE Directive:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/files/guide2009-04-20_en.pdf

Section 6.5 goes over marking, and 6.5.1 shows the CE with the Notified 
Body
identification number and the class identifier (alert sign). Section 4.2 has
specific information on classes.

Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Solar Energy

  +1.970.492.2065 Direct
 +1.970.214.9427 Mobile
  +1.970.407.5872 Fax
  +1.541.312.3832 Main
scott.ald...@aei.com


1625 Sharp Point Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80525

www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy




-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
lauren_cr...@amat.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:03 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Keep in mind there is also an bold-exclamation-mark-inside-a-bold-circle
known as the "alert" mark of the RTTE (Radio and Telecommunications Terminal
Equipment) Directive. I believe it is supposed to be used for "class II" radio
transmitters. I am probably mistaken when I guess that class II transmitters
use frequencies that have not been harmonized across all EU Member States yet.
 I suggest looking for a guidance document on the EU Commission website.

Regards,
--
Lauren Crane (mr.)
Product Regulatory Analyst | Corporate Product EHS | Applied Materials
Office 512.272.6540 | Mobile 512.736.7201 | America - Europe - Asia

- External Use – The opinions expressed here are my own opinions only 
and
not necessarily those of my employer.

** Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before 
printing this
e-mail.



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian 
Oconnell
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

The '!' notation is typically used within triangle (ISO symbol 0434) to
indicate that there is something important that the operator needs to read
about; or that it is being used to indicate special components on a PCB.

Is a stand-alone '!' being proposed? Did they refer to a symbol out of
IEC60417 or ISO7000? Would really like to know the reference for this.

Brian


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of 
Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Folks,

I have a question

Our overseas test lab suggested to add “exclamation mark" behind CE mark
because it’s related to RF 2.4GHz products to meet CE requirement Is it
necessary? Our AP product is a 80211 a/b/g/n with DFS

Christopher

-

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emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
that URL.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 



-

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emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
that URL.

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

 

RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Here is the guidance doc for the R&TTE Directive:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/files/guide2009-04-20_en.pdf

Section 6.5 goes over marking, and 6.5.1 shows the CE with the Notified Body 
identification number and the class identifier (alert sign). Section 4.2 has 
specific information on classes.

Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Solar Energy

  +1.970.492.2065 Direct
  +1.970.214.9427 Mobile
  +1.970.407.5872 Fax
  +1.541.312.3832 Main
scott.ald...@aei.com


1625 Sharp Point Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80525

www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of 
lauren_cr...@amat.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:03 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Keep in mind there is also an bold-exclamation-mark-inside-a-bold-circle known 
as the "alert" mark of the RTTE (Radio and Telecommunications Terminal 
Equipment) Directive. I believe it is supposed to be used for "class II" radio 
transmitters. I am probably mistaken when I guess that class II transmitters 
use frequencies that have not been harmonized across all EU Member States yet.  
I suggest looking for a guidance document on the EU Commission website.

Regards,
--
Lauren Crane (mr.)
Product Regulatory Analyst | Corporate Product EHS | Applied Materials
Office 512.272.6540 | Mobile 512.736.7201 | America - Europe - Asia

- External Use – The opinions expressed here are my own opinions only and not 
necessarily those of my employer.

** Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this 
e-mail.



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

The '!' notation is typically used within triangle (ISO symbol 0434) to 
indicate that there is something important that the operator needs to read 
about; or that it is being used to indicate special components on a PCB.

Is a stand-alone '!' being proposed? Did they refer to a symbol out of IEC60417 
or ISO7000? Would really like to know the reference for this.

Brian


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Folks,

I have a question

Our overseas test lab suggested to add “exclamation mark" behind CE mark 
because it’s related to RF 2.4GHz products to meet CE requirement Is it 
necessary? Our AP product is a 80211 a/b/g/n with DFS

Christopher

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 



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This message, including any attachments, may contain 
information that is confidential and proprietary information 
of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.  The dissemination,
distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its
attachments is strictly prohibited without the express 
written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.

RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Keep in mind there is also an bold-exclamation-mark-inside-a-bold-circle known 
as the "alert" mark of the RTTE (Radio and Telecommunications Terminal 
Equipment) Directive. I believe it is supposed to be used for "class II" radio 
transmitters. I am probably mistaken when I guess that class II transmitters 
use frequencies that have not been harmonized across all EU Member States yet.  
I suggest looking for a guidance document on the EU Commission website.

Regards,
--
Lauren Crane (mr.)
Product Regulatory Analyst | Corporate Product EHS | Applied Materials
Office 512.272.6540 | Mobile 512.736.7201 | America - Europe - Asia

- External Use – The opinions expressed here are my own opinions only and not 
necessarily those of my employer.

** Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this 
e-mail.



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

The '!' notation is typically used within triangle (ISO symbol 0434) to 
indicate that there is something important that the operator needs to read 
about; or that it is being used to indicate special components on a PCB.

Is a stand-alone '!' being proposed? Did they refer to a symbol out of IEC60417 
or ISO7000? Would really like to know the reference for this.

Brian


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Folks,

I have a question

Our overseas test lab suggested to add “exclamation mark" behind CE mark 
because it’s related to RF 2.4GHz products to meet CE requirement Is it 
necessary? Our AP product is a 80211 a/b/g/n with DFS

Christopher

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 



-

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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

RE: CE Mark with exclamation mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

The '!' notation is typically used within triangle (ISO symbol 0434) to 
indicate that there is something important that the operator needs to read 
about; or that it is being used to indicate special components on a PCB. 

Is a stand-alone '!' being proposed? Did they refer to a symbol out of IEC60417 
or ISO7000? Would really like to know the reference for this.

Brian


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE Mark with exclamation mark

Folks,

I have a question

Our overseas test lab suggested to add “exclamation mark" behind CE mark 
because it’s related to RF 2.4GHz products to meet CE requirement
Is it necessary? Our AP product is a 80211 a/b/g/n with DFS

Christopher

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL.

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

CE Mark with exclamation mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Folks,
 
I have a question
 
Our overseas test lab suggested to add “exclamation mark" behind CE mark 
because it’s related to RF 2.4GHz products to meet CE requirement
Is it necessary? Our AP product is a 80211 a/b/g/n with DFS

Christopher
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

RE: CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Hello Peter,

 

I recommend reviewing the Blue Guide  .  Section 5.4
describes the EC declaration of conformity, and sections 3.1 through 3.3 will
describe the roles related to the manufacturer, authorized representative and
importer.  

 

I presume that it is your customers who are actually importing your products
into the EU as part of their systems.  If the customer’s system falls under
certain directives, such as the EMC directive, it would need to comply with
that directive as a system.  The customer’s system would then need to be CE
marked and would need a DoC.  Your products do not need to be CE marked to be
part of a compliant system.  In fact, it would be up to your customer to
demonstrate that your products comply.  CE marking on individual components
doesn’t necessarily show that the system will be compliant. The systems
integrator can still do all of the necessary testing without having you do the
testing or perform CE marking.

 

Ted Eckert

Compliance Engineer

Microsoft Corporation

ted.eck...@microsoft.com

 

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer.

 

From: peterh...@aol.com [mailto:peterh...@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 1:06 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE mark

 

Hello group,

 

We are a US based manufacturer that sells our products to global customer and
some of these individual customers are requesting that we CE mark our products
so that they can integrate them into their system for EU. I have everything
done including my DoC (Declaration of conformity) but we don't have any
importer or sales office in EU and therefore don't know what address I should
use on my DoC. How can a US manufacturer CE complete the DoC and affix the CE
mark on the product when they don't have any present in the EU?

 

Thanks

Peter

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> 
Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

-

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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RE: CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Peter, 

The Machinery Directive Guide gives excellent guidance on these sorts of
questions à http://www.cen.eu/cen/Sect
rs/Sectors/Machinery/Documents/guide_ap
lication_directive_2006-42-ec-2nd_edit_6-2010_en.pdf

 

Search on “established outside the EU”.  

 

It can be a tricky point, but a company outside the EU is not really within
reach of the directive. Whoever is importing your products is more directly on
the hook. And DEPENDING ON THE DIRECTIVE IN QUESTION CE marking and DoC’ing
may not be relevant for B2B sales. If your company is not actually planning on
placing your items directly on the EU market or putting them directly into
service, i.e. if they are truly B2B components, you may not need to do much at
all except assure your customers via contract terms that your products have
been designed such that when your customers integrate them, they will not
hinder the compliance of the larger product. 

 

There is no requirement in any directive I know of, that a product be composed
of components that are CE Marked, except for some of the tricky ErP
implementing measures. 

 

Caveats galore – as various customs authorities are playing by their own
rule books regarding component import rules, many people in the game speak
>from “common sense” rather than reading each directive in detail, and
there is still no RoHS II guidance to state with certainty that component EEE
is out of scope. 

-- 
Lauren Crane (mr.) 
Product Regulatory Analyst | Corporate Product EHS | Applied Materials 
Office 512.272.6540 | Mobile 512.736.7201 | America - Europe - Asia 

-external use-  This is my own opinion only and not necessarily that of my
employer. 
** Save paper and trees! Please consider the environment before printing this
e-mail.

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
peterh...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 3:06 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: CE mark

 

Hello group,

 

We are a US based manufacturer that sells our products to global customer and
some of these individual customers are requesting that we CE mark our products
so that they can integrate them into their system for EU. I have everything
done including my DoC (Declaration of conformity) but we don't have any
importer or sales office in EU and therefore don't know what address I should
use on my DoC. How can a US manufacturer CE complete the DoC and affix the CE
mark on the product when they don't have any present in the EU?

 

Thanks

Peter

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> 
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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
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-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Hello group,
 
We are a US based manufacturer that sells our products to global customer and
some of these individual customers are requesting that we CE mark our products
so that they can integrate them into their system for EU. I have everything
done including my DoC (Declaration of conformity) but we don't have any
importer or sales office in EU and therefore don't know what address I should
use on my DoC. How can a US manufacturer CE complete the DoC and affix the CE
mark on the product when they don't have any present in the EU?
 
Thanks
Peter
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at
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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 

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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

Re: [PSES] Passive Devices and CE Mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Hi Scott,

GPSD (General Product Safety Directive), EMC, RoHS and WEEE Directives might
be applicable to the product. 

Here is a link to GPSD guide, it explain the relation with LV Limits. See item
4, page 16.
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_safe/prod_safe/gpsd/guidance_gpsd_en.pdf


Regards,
Caio.



On 7/24/2011 9:13 AM, Scott Douglas wrote: 


Do completely passive loudspeakers require a CE Mark? If yes, what 
standards
would be used to declare conformity?

My initial answer to this question was NO. Except for the recast RoHS
Directive now requiring a CE Mark.

The EMC Directive - Chapter 1, Article 1, Section 3 says:


3. This Directive shall not apply to equipment the inherent 
nature of the
physical characteristics of which is such that: 

(a) it is incapable of generating or contributing to 
electromagnetic
emissions which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication equipment
and other equipment to operate as intended; and 

(b) it will operate without unacceptable degradation in the 
presence of the
electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use. 



So that would seem to be a no.

The Low Voltage Directive - Article 1 says:


For the purposes of this Directive, ‘electrical equipment’ 
means any
equipment designed for use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for
alternating current and between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current, other than
the equipment and phenomena listed in Annex II. 


My initial thought here was that this would also not apply. But, some 
audio
amps can put out audio signals exceeding 50 V. The question here is - when
they use the term alternating current  here, does that mean AC Mains only or
can that also include the varying audio signals a speaker would see? The DC
part is easy, most speakers do not work well with DC applied.

Hoping to either learn something or settle an argument, your input is
appreciated as always.

Regards,
Scott
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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to 
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Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
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RE: Passive Devices and CE Mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

I agree with John in that the LVD never required passive speakers to be CE
Marked. We use d to CE mark our speakers under the EMC directive but since the
new one basically excludes passive products we have taken that directive off
of our DoC’s……..

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Douglas
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:14 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Passive Devices and CE Mark

 


Do completely passive loudspeakers require a CE Mark? If yes, what standards
would be used to declare conformity?

My initial answer to this question was NO. Except for the recast RoHS
Directive now requiring a CE Mark.

The EMC Directive - Chapter 1, Article 1, Section 3 says:

3. This Directive shall not apply to equipment the inherent nature of the
physical characteristics of which is such that:

(a) it is incapable of generating or contributing to electromagnetic emissions
which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication equipment and other
equipment to operate as intended; and

(b) it will operate without unacceptable degradation in the presence of the
electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use.


So that would seem to be a no.

The Low Voltage Directive - Article 1 says:

For the purposes of this Directive, ‘electrical equipment’ means any
equipment designed for use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for
alternating current and between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current, other than
the equipment and phenomena listed in Annex II.

My initial thought here was that this would also not apply. But, some audio
amps can put out audio signals exceeding 50 V. The question here is - when
they use the term alternating current  here, does that mean AC Mains only or
can that also include the varying audio signals a speaker would see? The DC
part is easy, most speakers do not work well with DC applied.

Hoping to either learn something or settle an argument, your input is
appreciated as always.

Regards,
Scott

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Re: Passive Devices and CE Mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

In message <4e2c44b2.8060...@radiusnorth.net>, dated Sun, 24 Jul 2011, 
Scott Douglas  writes:

>Do completely passive loudspeakers require a CE Mark? If yes, what 
>standards would be used to declare conformity?
>
>My initial answer to this question was NO. Except for the recast RoHS 
>Directive now requiring a CE Mark.

Under the EMC Directive, passive loudspeakers are regarded as 'benign', 
so no requirements apply.

The LVD is very badly worded, but the voltages cited refer to the energy 
supply. It is widely held that, because the 'line' voltage is rarely 
present, and the average voltage is much lower (typically less than 30% 
of the line voltage), the LVD does not apply.  However, there are 
requirements in IEC/EN 60065 for the safety of mains-powered 
loudspeakers.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will
be more interesting.

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Passive Devices and CE Mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Do completely passive loudspeakers require a CE Mark? If yes, what standards
would be used to declare conformity?

My initial answer to this question was NO. Except for the recast RoHS
Directive now requiring a CE Mark.

The EMC Directive - Chapter 1, Article 1, Section 3 says:


3. This Directive shall not apply to equipment the inherent nature of 
the
physical characteristics of which is such that:

(a) it is incapable of generating or contributing to electromagnetic
emissions which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication equipment
and other equipment to operate as intended; and

(b) it will operate without unacceptable degradation in the presence of 
the
electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use.



So that would seem to be a no.

The Low Voltage Directive - Article 1 says:


For the purposes of this Directive, ‘electrical equipment’ means any
equipment designed for use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for
alternating current and between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current, other than
the equipment and phenomena listed in Annex II.


My initial thought here was that this would also not apply. But, some audio
amps can put out audio signals exceeding 50 V. The question here is - when
they use the term alternating current  here, does that mean AC Mains only or
can that also include the varying audio signals a speaker would see? The DC
part is easy, most speakers do not work well with DC applied.

Hoping to either learn something or settle an argument, your input is
appreciated as always.

Regards,
Scott

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RE: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

There are also requirements to the receivers.
It all depend on the classification of the transmission link.
The standards make a distinction in 3 reliability classes.
For the least severe class receiver tests are skipped. For
HiRel transmission systems the receivers are tested thoroughly.
Read EN 300220 for example.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen



g.grem...@cetest.nl
www.cetest.nl

Kiotoweg 363
3047 BG Rotterdam
T 31(0)104152426
F 31(0)104154953

 Before printing, think about the environment. 



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens John Woodgate
Verzonden: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:44 PM
Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org
Onderwerp: Re: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

In message 
, dated 
Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Grace Lin  writes:

>1. For the module to be installed in lighting equipment, does EN55015 
>emission standard apply?

EN 55015 applies to the whole product, not to individual modules within 
it.
> 
>2. How to apply ESD, EFT, Surge, voltage dips and short 
>interruptions to a transmitter module?  Are these tests exempted?

These tests are carried out on the finished product, not on modules.

I don't know what the RTTE Directive says, but I would have thought that 
the only tests applicable to a module are those related to its 
transmitter function.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Plural: data, criteria. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element'
for a single item), criterion. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except
in psychiatry).

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Re: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

In message 
, dated 
Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Grace Lin  writes:

>1. For the module to be installed in lighting equipment, does EN55015 
>emission standard apply?

EN 55015 applies to the whole product, not to individual modules within 
it.
> 
>2. How to apply ESD, EFT, Surge, voltage dips and short 
>interruptions to a transmitter module?  Are these tests exempted?

These tests are carried out on the finished product, not on modules.

I don't know what the RTTE Directive says, but I would have thought that 
the only tests applicable to a module are those related to its 
transmitter function.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Plural: data, criteria. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element'
for a single item), criterion. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except
in psychiatry).

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Re: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Grace

RTTE is good enough as it references the EMC and the LVD without the voltage 
limits. Your standards seem to be correct, emissions are covered in the 489 
standard. Safety is required even though you only have 3.3 V

Best Regards

Peter Merguerian
Peter@Goglobal <http://compliance.com> compliance.com
Go Global Compliance Inc.
Cel: (408) 931-3303

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Grace Lin  wrote:



Dear members,
 
    Does CE mark apply to transmitter modules (2.4GHz DSSS, +3.3V)?
 
If yes, how many directives apply?  There is no question that R&TTE 
Directive applies.  How about EMCD and LVD?
 
What are the test standards?  Per R&TTE, I think EN 300 328, EN 301 
489-1, and EN 301 489-17 are the test standards, correct me if I miss any.  
Does an emission test standard, such as EN 55022, apply?  For +3.3V device, 
does a safety standard apply?
 
Thank you very much for your time and look forward to hearing from you.
 
Best regards,
Grace Lin
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Re: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Thank you very much, Gert.
 
For a 3.3Vdc input 2.4GHz DSSS transmitter module (physical size 1" x 2"):
 
1. For the module to be installed in lighting equipment, does EN55015 emission
standard apply?
 
2. How to apply ESD, EFT, Surge, voltage dips and short interruptions to a
transmitter module?  Are these tests exempted?
 
Thank you.
Grace


On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:43 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
 wrote:


    Yes, the ce mark is granted under the R&TTE directive, but the basic
requirements of the LVD and EMC directive

apply by their standards being listed under the R&TTE directive also.

 

Choose your standards from the list of harmonized standards for the 
R&TTE
directive.

 

If this is a short range device you also need to consider

The EN 300 220 or EN 300 440 for radio properties.

 

In addition you need to consult the national EC  frequency allocation 
tables

for requirements in power , duty cycle and allowed communication system.

 

Luckily most popular frequencies are harmonized allover the EC.

 

When using a module consider that many modules do not comply to one of 
the
radio standards above without additional circuitry.

 

The radio requirements can be touch to meet especially for safety 
related
(high rel) radio systems.

 

Consider special hardware and/or software to facilitate (=cheaper) 
testing.

 

Gert Gremmen

Ce-test, qualified testing bv

 

 

 

Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Grace Lin
Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2010 20:46
Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org
Onderwerp: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

 

Dear members,

     

Does CE mark apply to transmitter modules (2.4GHz DSSS, +3.3V)?

 

If yes, how many directives apply?  There is no question that R&TTE 
Directive
applies.  How about EMCD and LVD?

 

What are the test standards?  Per R&TTE, I think EN 300 328, EN 301 
489-1,
and EN 301 489-17 are the test standards, correct me if I miss any.  Does an
emission test standard, such as EN 55022, apply?  For +3.3V device, does a
safety standard apply?

 

Thank you very much for your time and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Best regards,

Grace Lin

-

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emc-pstc
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RE: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Yes, the ce mark is granted under the R&TTE directive, but the basic
requirements of the LVD and EMC directive

apply by their standards being listed under the R&TTE directive also.

 

Choose your standards from the list of harmonized standards for the R&TTE
directive.

 

If this is a short range device you also need to consider

The EN 300 220 or EN 300 440 for radio properties.

 

In addition you need to consult the national EC  frequency allocation tables

for requirements in power , duty cycle and allowed communication system.

 

Luckily most popular frequencies are harmonized allover the EC.

 

When using a module consider that many modules do not comply to one of the
radio standards above without additional circuitry.

 

The radio requirements can be touch to meet especially for safety related
(high rel) radio systems.

 

Consider special hardware and/or software to facilitate (=cheaper) testing.

 

Gert Gremmen

Ce-test, qualified testing bv

 

 

 

Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Grace Lin
Verzonden: donderdag 9 december 2010 20:46
Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org
Onderwerp: CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

 

Dear members,

 

Does CE mark apply to transmitter modules (2.4GHz DSSS, +3.3V)?

 

If yes, how many directives apply?  There is no question that R&TTE Directive
applies.  How about EMCD and LVD?

 

What are the test standards?  Per R&TTE, I think EN 300 328, EN 301 489-1, and
EN 301 489-17 are the test standards, correct me if I miss any.  Does an
emission test standard, such as EN 55022, apply?  For +3.3V device, does a
safety standard apply?

 

Thank you very much for your time and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Best regards,

Grace Lin

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CE Mark on Transmitter Modules

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Dear members,
 
Does CE mark apply to transmitter modules (2.4GHz DSSS, +3.3V)?
 
If yes, how many directives apply?  There is no question that R&TTE Directive
applies.  How about EMCD and LVD?
 
What are the test standards?  Per R&TTE, I think EN 300 328, EN 301 489-1, and
EN 301 489-17 are the test standards, correct me if I miss any.  Does an
emission test standard, such as EN 55022, apply?  For +3.3V device, does a
safety standard apply?
 
Thank you very much for your time and look forward to hearing from you.
 
Best regards,
Grace Lin
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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RE: CE Mark needed for passive cable packaging?

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

I seem recall seeing a note regarding audio and I/O cables being exempt unless
they handled more than a certain power/voltage/current amount.  It was
research I had done for a small US company selling very high-end audio
accessories and cables into the EU.  Look for information on the HAR agreement
appears through the haze.

-Doug Kramer


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:31 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: CE Mark needed for passive cable packaging?

In message 
, dated 
Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Dave Heald  writes:

>  Forgive me for asking - I should certainly know this answer - but is 
>a CE mark required on the packaging for passive cables such as an audio 
>interface adapter or even a USB cable? 

I don't think so. There once was a move to bring passive cables within 
the EMCD, but it was abandoned.

In the future, RoHS and WEEE may require the CE mark, but they do not do 
so at present.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
I should be disillusioned, but it's not worth the effort.
But I support unbloated email http://www.asciiribbon.org/

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Re: CE Mark needed for passive cable packaging?

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

In message 
, dated 
Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Dave Heald  writes:

>  Forgive me for asking - I should certainly know this answer - but is 
>a CE mark required on the packaging for passive cables such as an audio 
>interface adapter or even a USB cable? 

I don't think so. There once was a move to bring passive cables within 
the EMCD, but it was abandoned.

In the future, RoHS and WEEE may require the CE mark, but they do not do 
so at present.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
I should be disillusioned, but it's not worth the effort.
But I support unbloated email http://www.asciiribbon.org/

-

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CE Mark needed for passive cable packaging?

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

All,
  Forgive me for asking - I should certainly know this answer - but is a CE
mark required on the packaging for passive cables such as an audio interface
adapter or even a USB cable?  
 
I know about (and am in compliance with) other marks such as recycling, Cali
Prop 65, country of origin, and so on, but the basic answer of whether or not
a CE mark should be present on the packaging escapes me.  
 
If it is required, what directive drives it?  I'm going to need to justify my
answer and can't think of reasoning that would require a CE Mark on the
packaging.
 
Thanks and Best Regards,
-Dave Heald
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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RE: Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Thanks Peter for the response.

Yes I basically have been telling my management what you said about due
diligence etc.

At this point the vendors test documentation has some holes.

I am looking into filling them or possibly redoing good portions of it if not
all.

The problem will be in getting vendor support for the drawings etc. needed to
redo the tests.

 

As an industrial product I believe we have some exemptions on Rohs but that
may change.

I will review on that topic as well.  Plus it would be a positive spec to have.

 

On an in house design we have been migrating a multi-board design to Rohs.

The most complicated board has many BGAs and the vendors are all pushing to
Rohs so the board’s whole solder system had to go that way too.

Every time I update a board it is going Rohs and I’m almost done.

 

Regards

 

Chris Wells

Eaton Corp

 



From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:56 PM
To: Chris Wells; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Name brand CE mark

 

Chris,

 

You can leverage their test reports but at the end of the day your company is
responsible before you sign the CE Declaration of Conformity. As such, review
the test reports, make sure that all tests are covered and all versions and
accessories have been evaluated. Also, keep in mind that safety and emc covers
the EMC Directive and whatever other safety related directive that applies to
your equipment (TOY, LVD, MAHINERY, MEDICAL, etc.). You need to consider other
directives as well such as the ROHS, ECODESIGN and others that may apply.

 

Best Regards,

 

PETER MERGUERIAN

pe...@goglobalcompliance.com

Go Global Compliance Inc.

Tel: (408) 416-3772

Fax: (408) 416-3224

www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com

 


 

 



From: Chris Wells 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Name brand CE mark

My company name brands a product that is CE marked.

There is supporting documentation from independent labs for safety and EMC.

What are the issues with my company leveraging their testing?

Can we use it as support or do we need to do our own testing?

 

Chris

 

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Re: [PSES] Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Hi Chris,
 
Your question of private branding of products sold in EU is a common question
that my company has seen from retailers heavily involved in private brand /
store branded products.
 
As importer of the product you need to make a declaration of conformity to all
applicable directives that apply to your product.   Officials have the right
to request a copy of your technical folder in any challenge.
 
The officials are then going to compare the test reports, photos and diagrams
in your technical folder to the product in front of them.   To make their job
easier, it is best to have the original reports revised to include your brand
and model number of your private brand.  Most global labs like TUV SUD can
help you do this. A slightly less desirable inclusion in your technical
folder is a statement from the original manufacturer explaining the
similarities of the product tested versus your private brand product.  
 
You want to make the officials job easy to avoid delays and expenses
associated with importing your product into the EU.  Do a good job on your
technical folder preparation.
 
CE marking is typically enforced at the point of import (port or border). 
Over 50% of the products on the EU market are not in compliance according to
recent surveys.  So the chance exists you might never have a challenge   
There are records of whistleblowers (competitors) creating enforcement action.
   So if you choose to make short cuts here in buiding your technical folder,
you might want to take out some insurance in the event of an unlucky day.
 

 

Scott Griggs


+1 (978) 23-TUVAM  (+1 978 238-8826) Work


 





From: Lauren Crane 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Sat, July 17, 2010 12:02:16 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Name brand CE mark


I have been following the RoHS recast very closely. It seem inevitable that
RoHS will become a CE marking directive. There seems great will among
legislators to complete the recast this year and I guess an effectivity next
year. Currently it looks like the scope will be full open (all EEE)  with
delayed effectivity for some equipment types. Even though it is not currently
a CE directive it would be wise to anticipate the change. 

Regards, 
Lauren Crane 

Applied Materials
america - europe - asia   
Corporate Product EHS 
www.amat.com <http://www.amat.com/>  

lauren crane (mr.) 
product regulatory analyst 
(t) +1.512.272.6540 
lauren_cr...@amat.com 

- external use - 

Save paper and trees!  Please consider the environment before printing this
e-mail. 






"Gartman, Richard"  
Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 

07/16/2010 08:53 AM 

To
peter merguerian , Chris Wells
, "emc-p...@ieee.org"  
cc
Subject
RE: Name brand CE mark  







Peter, 
You mention RoHS in your reply. What type of RoHS documentation do you see
needing to exist to support the CE mark of an electronic product? 
  
Regards 
W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP 
Product Stewardship Manager 
Texas Instruments, Education Technology 
7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 
Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com
<mailto:rgart...@ti.com>  
Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com
<http://www.education.ti.com/>  
  www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
<http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  
  <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 
  <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  
Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one
earth - don't waste it. <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter
merguerian
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:56 PM
To: Chris Wells; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Name brand CE mark 
  
Chris, 
  
You can leverage their test reports but at the end of the day your company is
responsible before you sign the CE Declaration of Conformity. As such, review
the test reports, make sure that all tests are covered and all versions and
accessories have been evaluated. Also, keep in mind that safety and emc covers
the EMC Directive and whatever other safety related directive that applies to
your equipment (TOY, LVD, MAHINERY, MEDICAL, etc.). You need to consider other
directives as well such as the ROHS, ECODESIGN and others that may apply. 
  
Best Regards, 
  
PETER MERGUERIAN 
pe...@goglobalcompliance.com <mailto:pe...@goglobalcompliance.com>  
Go Global Compliance Inc. 
Tel: (408) 416-3772 
Fax: (408) 416-3224 
www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com <http://www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com/>  
  


  




From: Chris Wells 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Name brand CE mark 
My company name brands a product that is CE marked. 
There is supporting documentation

RE: Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

I have been following the RoHS recast very closely. It seem inevitable that
RoHS will become a CE marking directive. There seems great will among
legislators to complete the recast this year and I guess an effectivity next
year. Currently it looks like the scope will be full open (all EEE)  with
delayed effectivity for some equipment types. Even though it is not currently
a CE directive it would be wise to anticipate the change. 

Regards, 
Lauren Crane 

Applied Materials
america - europe - asia   
Corporate Product EHS 
www.amat.com 

lauren crane (mr.) 
product regulatory analyst 
(t) +1.512.272.6540 
lauren_cr...@amat.com 

- external use - 

Save paper and trees!  Please consider the environment before printing this
e-mail. 






"Gartman, Richard"  
Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 

07/16/2010 08:53 AM To
peter merguerian , Chris Wells
, "emc-p...@ieee.org"  
cc
Subject
RE: Name brand CE mark



  



Peter, 
You mention RoHS in your reply. What type of RoHS documentation do you see
needing to exist to support the CE mark of an electronic product? 
  
Regards 
W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP 
Product Stewardship Manager 
Texas Instruments, Education Technology 
7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251 
Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com
<mailto:rgart...@ti.com>  
Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com
<http://www.education.ti.com/>  
  www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
<http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  
  <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 
  <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  
Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one
earth - don't waste it. <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship>  




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter
merguerian
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:56 PM
To: Chris Wells; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Name brand CE mark 
  
Chris, 
  
You can leverage their test reports but at the end of the day your company is
responsible before you sign the CE Declaration of Conformity. As such, review
the test reports, make sure that all tests are covered and all versions and
accessories have been evaluated. Also, keep in mind that safety and emc covers
the EMC Directive and whatever other safety related directive that applies to
your equipment (TOY, LVD, MAHINERY, MEDICAL, etc.). You need to consider other
directives as well such as the ROHS, ECODESIGN and others that may apply. 
  
Best Regards, 
  
PETER MERGUERIAN 
pe...@goglobalcompliance.com <mailto:pe...@goglobalcompliance.com>  
Go Global Compliance Inc. 
Tel: (408) 416-3772 
Fax: (408) 416-3224 
www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com <http://www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com/>  
  


  




From: Chris Wells 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Name brand CE mark 
My company name brands a product that is CE marked. 
There is supporting documentation from independent labs for safety and EMC. 
What are the issues with my company leveraging their testing? 
Can we use it as support or do we need to do our own testing? 
  
Chris 
  
-

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David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > 
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<http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc> 
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For policy questions,

RE: Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Peter,

You mention RoHS in your reply. What type of RoHS documentation do you see
needing to exist to support the CE mark of an electronic product?

 

Regards

W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP

Product Stewardship Manager

Texas Instruments, Education Technology

7800 Banner Drive, Dallas, Tx 75251

Office: 972-917-1636Email: rgart...@ti.com
<mailto:rgart...@ti.com> 

Fax: 972-917-0668 URL: www.education.ti.com
<http://www.education.ti.com/>  

  www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
<http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 

   <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 

  <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 

Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one
earth - don't waste it. <http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship> 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter
merguerian
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:56 PM
To: Chris Wells; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Name brand CE mark

 

Chris,

 

You can leverage their test reports but at the end of the day your company is
responsible before you sign the CE Declaration of Conformity. As such, review
the test reports, make sure that all tests are covered and all versions and
accessories have been evaluated. Also, keep in mind that safety and emc covers
the EMC Directive and whatever other safety related directive that applies to
your equipment (TOY, LVD, MAHINERY, MEDICAL, etc.). You need to consider other
directives as well such as the ROHS, ECODESIGN and others that may apply.

 

Best Regards,

 

PETER MERGUERIAN

pe...@goglobalcompliance.com

Go Global Compliance Inc.

Tel: (408) 416-3772

Fax: (408) 416-3224

www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com

 


 

 



From: Chris Wells 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Name brand CE mark

My company name brands a product that is CE marked.

There is supporting documentation from independent labs for safety and EMC.

What are the issues with my company leveraging their testing?

Can we use it as support or do we need to do our own testing?

 

Chris

 

-

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Re: Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Chris,
 
You can leverage their test reports but at the end of the day your company is
responsible before you sign the CE Declaration of Conformity. As such, review
the test reports, make sure that all tests are covered and all versions and
accessories have been evaluated. Also, keep in mind that safety and emc covers
the EMC Directive and whatever other safety related directive that applies to
your equipment (TOY, LVD, MAHINERY, MEDICAL, etc.). You need to consider other
directives as well such as the ROHS, ECODESIGN and others that may apply.
 
Best Regards,
 
PETER MERGUERIAN
pe...@goglobalcompliance.com
Go Global Compliance Inc.
Tel: (408) 416-3772
Fax: (408) 416-3224
www.globalcompliance.blogspot.com
 

 



From: Chris Wells 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 6:04:43 PM
Subject: Name brand CE mark



My company name brands a product that is CE marked.

There is supporting documentation from independent labs for safety and EMC.

What are the issues with my company leveraging their testing?

Can we use it as support or do we need to do our own testing?

 

Chris

 

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Name brand CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

My company name brands a product that is CE marked.

There is supporting documentation from independent labs for safety and EMC.

What are the issues with my company leveraging their testing?

Can we use it as support or do we need to do our own testing?

 

Chris

 

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Need production tools a CE mark

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Dear newsgroup readers.
 
Till now we verify the internally developed / produced and used production
tools (they will be used in our factories within Europe and service and
repairs centres) according to EMC and Safety as required for a CE marking. 
 
But we have an discussion now if CE marking of production tools is still
needed. 
 
Were can I find that CE marking for an production tool is still applicable. Is
it in the EMC / Safety directives or in the "Guide to the implementation of
directives based on the New Approach and the Global Approach"".
 
Thanks for your reply.

Best Regards 

Jan Mobers 


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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

The legislation has to be reviewed every 4 years, so given that RoHS hit
the streets in 2006, it makes 2010 the likely date for the current
proposed amendments to be rolled in.

2017 would likely stand for the removal of some exemptions, so giving
mfrs plenty of time to make the necessary adjustments.

Chris. 




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
Gordon,Ian
Sent: 14 May 2009 09:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark
legislations

All
Does anyone have any idea as to when the RoHS directive might be amended
to include the requirement to use it as part of the CE marking process?
I saw a date of 2017 mentioned for removal of some of the exceptions to
the directive - is this the sort of time frame that might be applicable
for the revision?


Ian Gordon




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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

All
Does anyone have any idea as to when the RoHS directive might be amended
to include the requirement to use it as part of the CE marking process?
I saw a date of 2017 mentioned for removal of some of the exceptions to
the directive - is this the sort of time frame that might be applicable
for the revision?


Ian Gordon




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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

By PPD I mean 76/211/EEC which has to do with quantity representation and
quantity control. Annex I, section 3.3 describes the "e" requirements,
refering in part to 71/316/EEC 


Lauren 

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"Brian O'Connell"  
Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 

05/13/2009 02:59 PM To
 
cc
Subject
RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations



  



Pre-packaged products directive that requires the e mark ?

please explain - I thought that the PPD applied to quantity control and the
'e'mark was for vehicles. 

thanks.



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of
lauren_cr...@amat.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:02 AM
To: John Woodgate
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark
legislations

John, 

I disagree. REACH is all about (well at least partly about) imported articles,
substances and preparations (all "products"). It is as much a market access
regulation as MD or EMCD. 

As you know RoHS is being proposed to be a CE mark directive in its upcoming
revision. 

There are many other directives that also relate to potential products but
don't require CE marking, such as TPED (requires PI marking), Aerosols
Directive (requires upside-down epsilon marking), Prepackaged Products
Directive (requires "e" marking). 

My impression is that CE markings tend to be required where consumer sales are
prominently envisioned, and no marking, or other markings are required where
B2B transactions are more prominent. 

Regards, 
Lauren Crane 
Product Regulatory Analyst
Corporate Product EHS Lead
Applied Materials Inc.
Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540]

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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

There are e-marks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3022615

and then there are e-marks, and E-marks

http://www.twn.tuv.com/english/ps/mobility/Homologation/3_2_2_1.htm

Nick.



At 12:59 -0700 13/5/09, Brian O'Connell wrote:
>Pre-packaged products directive that requires the e mark ?
>
>please explain - I thought that the PPD applied to quantity control 
>and the 'e'mark was for vehicles.
>
>thanks.
>

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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Pre-packaged products directive that requires the e mark ?

please explain - I thought that the PPD applied to quantity control and the
'e'mark was for vehicles. 

thanks.



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of
lauren_cr...@amat.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:02 AM
To: John Woodgate
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark
legislations

John, 

I disagree. REACH is all about (well at least partly about) imported articles,
substances and preparations (all "products"). It is as much a market access
regulation as MD or EMCD. 

As you know RoHS is being proposed to be a CE mark directive in its upcoming
revision. 

There are many other directives that also relate to potential products but
don't require CE marking, such as TPED (requires PI marking), Aerosols
Directive (requires upside-down epsilon marking), Prepackaged Products
Directive (requires "e" marking). 

My impression is that CE markings tend to be required where consumer sales are
prominently envisioned, and no marking, or other markings are required where
B2B transactions are more prominent. 

Regards, 
Lauren Crane 
Product Regulatory Analyst
Corporate Product EHS Lead
Applied Materials Inc.
Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540]

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Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

In message 
, 
dated Wed, 13 May 2009, lauren_cr...@amat.com writes:

>I disagree. REACH is all about (well at least partly about) imported 
>articles, substances and preparations (all "products"). It is as much a 
>market access regulation as MD or EMCD.

It is, but I didn't claim that the distinction I explained was entirely 
logical. This is Brussels we are dealing with!
>
>As you know RoHS is being proposed to be a CE mark directive in its 
>upcoming revision.

Yes, because the 'border crossing' element has been given more 
prominence.
>
>There are many other directives that also relate to potential products 
>but don't require CE marking, such as TPED (requires PI marking), 
>Aerosols Directive (requires upside-down epsilon marking), Prepackaged 
>Products Directive (requires "e" marking).

If there is a dedicated compliance symbol, obviously there may be no 
need for the CE mark as well.
>
>My impression is that CE markings tend to be required where consumer 
>sales are prominently envisioned, and no marking, or other markings are 
>required where B2B transactions are more prominent.

I don't think that is the intention; in particular, the Commission 
maintains that the CE mark is not directed to consumers, as some sort of 
product quality mark.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Things can always get better. But that's not the only option.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

John, 

I disagree. REACH is all about (well at least partly about) imported articles,
substances and preparations (all "products"). It is as much a market access
regulation as MD or EMCD. 

As you know RoHS is being proposed to be a CE mark directive in its upcoming
revision. 

There are many other directives that also relate to potential products but
don't require CE marking, such as TPED (requires PI marking), Aerosols
Directive (requires upside-down epsilon marking), Prepackaged Products
Directive (requires "e" marking). 

My impression is that CE markings tend to be required where consumer sales are
prominently envisioned, and no marking, or other markings are required where
B2B transactions are more prominent. 

Regards, 
Lauren Crane 
Product Regulatory Analyst
Corporate Product EHS Lead
Applied Materials Inc.
Austin, TX 512 272-6540 [#922 26540]

The content of this message is Applied Materials Confidential.  If you are not
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.

Save paper and trees!  Please consider the environment before printing this
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John Woodgate  
Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 

05/13/2009 11:48 AM To
emc-p...@ieee.org 
cc
Subject
Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations



  



In message <4a0af54b.22ba720a.5a61.5...@mx.google.com>, dated Thu, 14 
May 2009, Scott Xe  writes:

>I am looking at some European legislations (LVD, EMC, etc) that require 
>CE Mark but some (RoHS, Packaging, REACH, etc.) do not.  Is there any 
>reason behind to have such difference?

The CE mark is to notify Customs and market surveillance officials that 
the product can cross national borders and be marketed in the EU. This 
is not relevant to RoHS, packaging, REACH, etc.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Things can always get better. But that's not the only option.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

In message <4a0af54b.22ba720a.5a61.5...@mx.google.com>, dated Thu, 14 
May 2009, Scott Xe  writes:

>I am looking at some European legislations (LVD, EMC, etc) that require 
>CE Mark but some (RoHS, Packaging, REACH, etc.) do not.  Is there any 
>reason behind to have such difference?

The CE mark is to notify Customs and market surveillance officials that 
the product can cross national borders and be marketed in the EU. This 
is not relevant to RoHS, packaging, REACH, etc.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Things can always get better. But that's not the only option.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Neil is correct, but to throw a slightly different light in this, the 
CE marking directives are rooted in Article 100a of the Treaty of 
Rome and it is a requirement of Artice 100a that member state 
governments must not introduce any additional requirements to those 
which are contained in the Directives.

WEEE is not an Article 100a Directive and one of the side effects of 
this is that, unlike RoHS (which is an article 100a Directive and 
therefore represents a common requirement across all EEA member 
states) the WEEE Directive represents the minimum requirements which 
a member state must enforce, and states can augment these 
requirements if they choose to.

Nick.



At 17:39 +0100 13/5/09, Barker, Neil wrote:
>Scott
>
>Generally, legislation applicable to products frequently require CE 
>marking, whereas legislation that is applicable to companies does 
>not. Packaging and REACH legislation affects organizations, but does 
>not directly affect product. RoHS is the exception, but that is 
>probably why the current re-draft proposal now includes CE marking 
>for RoHS, thus removing this anomaly. Another exception is WEEE, 
>where the product requires marking (with the crossed-out wheelie 
>bin), but the obligation is on the manufacturer, there being no 
>specific requirements on the product other than having to be 
>identified as being within the scope of the WEEE Directive.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Best regards
>
>Neil Barker

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RE: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

Scott
 
Generally, legislation applicable to products frequently require CE marking,
whereas legislation that is applicable to companies does not. Packaging and
REACH legislation affects organizations, but does not directly affect product.
RoHS is the exception, but that is probably why the current re-draft proposal
now includes CE marking for RoHS, thus removing this anomaly. Another
exception is WEEE, where the product requires marking (with the crossed-out
wheelie bin), but the obligation is on the manufacturer, there being no
specific requirements on the product other than having to be identified as
being within the scope of the WEEE Directive.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Best regards
 

Neil Barker

Manager

Central Quality

 

e2v

106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, England

Tel: +44 (0)1245 453616

Mobile:   +44 (0)7801 723735

Fax:+44 (0)1245 453571

 www.e2v.com <http://www.e2v.com/> 

 

P Consider the environment: do you really need to print this e mail?

 




From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Xe
Sent: 13 May 2009 17:29
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations



I am looking at some European legislations (LVD, EMC, etc) that require CE
Mark but some (RoHS, Packaging, REACH, etc.) do not.  Is there any reason
behind to have such difference?

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott


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Differences between CE Mark legislations and non CE Mark legislations

[emc-p...@ieee.org]

I am looking at some European legislations (LVD, EMC, etc) that require CE
Mark but some (RoHS, Packaging, REACH, etc.) do not.  Is there any reason
behind to have such difference?

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

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Re: DOC Requirement for Year CE Mark is Affixed

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated 
Tue, 3 Jun 2008, Ronald R. Wellman  writes:


>According to Annex III, there is no mention as to a date that the DoC 
>is signed by the signatory. Therefore, is the "the last two digits of 
>the year in which the CE marking was affixed (for the first time)" the 
>same as the date a signatory signed a DoC, if it appears on the DoC?

No, for the reasons indicated in my follow-up to Nick's message. Apart 
>from changes to the product's internals or the applicable standards 
since the mark was 'first affixed', the DoC signatory may change.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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RE: DOC Requirement for Year CE Mark is Affixed

[Ronald R. Wellman]

According to Annex III, there is no mention as to a date that the DoC is
signed by the signatory. Therefore, is the "the last two digits of the year
in which the CE marking was affixed (for the first time)" the same as the
date a signatory signed a DoC, if it appears on the DoC?

Best regards,
Ron Wellman


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Nick
Williams
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:20 AM
To: Monrad Monsen
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: DOC Requirement for Year CE Mark is Affixed


I would agree with your interpretation, with a caveat in regard to
your use of four digits for the year.

We have, in the past, been told by the MHRA (the enforcing body for
the Medical Devices Directive in the UK) that we were not allowed to
put the year number on DofC's because it might be confused with the
notified body (NB) number for a product where the NB number is a
requirement (i.e. where the manufacturer's quality system has to be
assessed). This was for a two digit year number so I imagine they'd
take a very dim view of the use of four digits (since this is the
standard format for a notified body number).

Our (unofficial) response to this was to conclude that the MHRA don't
know the rules which apply to products which are not medical devices
very well, and to ignore them in these cases. However, we do take
care to ensure the digits are not present on DofCs for medical
devices - the MDD and the directives which require the digits of the
year are mutually exclusive so this is the correct approach.

Nick.


At 19:09 -0600 2/6/08, Monrad Monsen wrote:
>The Low Voltage Directive 2006/95/EC states in annex III that a
>declaration of conformity (DOC) "must contain the following
>elements: ... the last two digits of the year in which the CE
>marking was affixed."  I note that a like statement is not listed
>for the EMC Directive.
>
>I interpret this requirement as listing the year in which the CE
>mark was first affixed to this model number product.  If true, then
>the signature date on the DOC would not be adequate because a
>company may make a later change to a DOC and re-issue the DOC long
>after the first CE mark was affixed to this product line.
>
>I looked through the DOCs of others in our industry, and I do not
>see this being followed anywhere.  What are your interpretations of
>this requirement?
>
>My interpretation is that the "last two digits of the year"
>statement is merely a minimum of two digits, but it allows for using
>a four digit year.  Most people avoid using two digit years after
>the year 2000 crunch, so I'd prefer to use a four digit year.
>
>You can view the low voltage directive by going to
><http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/electr_equipment/lv/direct/text.htm>"http:/
/ec.europa.eu/enterprise/electr_equipment/lv/direct/text.htm"
>and clicking on the language version of choice ("en" for English,
>etc.).  Again, the requirement is found in annex III.
>
>Thanks.
>--
>Monrad
>
>Monrad L. Monsen
>Compliance Program Manager
>Storage Group
>Sun Microsystems
><mailto:monrad.mon...@sun.com>monrad.mon...@sun.com
>303.272.9612 Office
>
>
>

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Re: DOC Requirement for Year CE Mark is Affixed

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated Tue, 3 Jun 
2008, Nick Williams  writes:


>We have, in the past, been told by the MHRA (the enforcing body for the 
>Medical Devices Directive in the UK) that we were not allowed to put 
>the year number on DofC's because it might be confused with the 
>notified body (NB) number for a product where the NB number is a 
>requirement (i.e. where the manufacturer's quality system has to be 
>assessed). This was for a two digit year number so I imagine they'd 
>take a very dim view of the use of four digits (since this is the 
>standard format for a notified body number).
>
>Our (unofficial) response to this was to conclude that the MHRA don't 
>know the rules which apply to products which are not medical devices 
>very well, and to ignore them in these cases. However, we do take care 
>to ensure the digits are not present on DofCs for medical devices - the 
>MDD and the directives which require the digits of the year are 
>mutually exclusive so this is the correct approach.

'Mutually exclusive', so it's perhaps not surprising that the 
requirements for the content of DoCs differ between the MDD and the LVD. 
But it does seem to be illogical, like so much in EU legislation.

A more fundamental question is 'What is the reason for requiring the two 
digits to be included?' It is also far from clear what 'first affixed' 
means, when you take into account engineering changes in the product, 
changes in the edition of the safety standard which is valid, changes in 
the Directive which applies... For example, products now having a DoC 
referring to 2006/95/EC may have had the CE mark first affixed under 
Directive 73/23/EEC. Is that the required date, or that on which the CE 
mark was 'first affixed' under 2006/95/EC?

In view of all these uncertainties, I think it's not surprising that 
many DoCs do not include the date.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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