Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
Good point Wendy, I always control my Equipment from Compliance 5, so I have never used the SW that comes with it. Cheers, Derek.; -Original Message- From: WNya wendy...@yahoo.com To: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com Cc: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 6:56 pm Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? James, Do ask for a demo unit and ensure that the emissions SW that you are using is able to control it. By the way I'm using the PMM receiver up to 3GHz with TDK RFS SW. You would probably want to consider the 6GHz option. PMM is not a spectrum, hence if you like the features of colorful trace, more than one traces, max hold traces, etc, it doesn't work. TESEQ sells and supports PMM in US. You can probably get a demo unit from them. It comes with a free SW but it does minimal - no control of antenna mast or turntable. Sent from Wendy.Nya iPhone On Aug 30, 2011, at 6:31 PM, Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com wrote: I should add that the main standard we test to is EN 55022. Thanks James From: Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com? ] Sent: 30 August 2011 11:12 To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Hello, We are budgeting for a replacement for our ageing RS ESVS10 EMI receiver. Apart from RS I've found Agilent and Teseq that make EMI receivers. Does anyone have any thoughts on which EMI receiver manufacturer they prefer and why? I'm thinking about things like support, software to drive the receiver, cost of repair and calibration, reliability etc. Also, are there other manufacturers that I've not found yet? We seem to have had good reliability from our RS receiver (12+ years of service) but repairs have always seemed expensive and taken a long time. Support is generally good compared to other test equipment manufacturers. Thanks in advance James ~~ James Pawson Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC EchoStar Europe ~~ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
My understanding is that this is whats done... -Original Message- From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 3:03 pm Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? I had forgotten about that fact. In what I wrote, the assumption was that an IF was being fed back to the rest of the receiver, and that it was at a lower frequency than the rf, and hence the claimed lower cable loss. But fiber is better if the entire down-conversion and detection is done at the antenna, and basically detected video is being fed back. In fact, that eliminates a lot of expense in low-loss coax. That alone could be worth several thousand $$ or pounds or whatever... Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:22:36 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message ca83e27d.bf05f%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Then the rest of the connection all the way back to the receiver should be well-matched 50 Ohm sections. I believe the product in question has a fibre-optic link. I wonder what the impedance of that is. (Half serious.) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
James, Do ask for a demo unit and ensure that the emissions SW that you are using is able to control it. By the way I'm using the PMM receiver up to 3GHz with TDK RFS SW. You would probably want to consider the 6GHz option. PMM is not a spectrum, hence if you like the features of colorful trace, more than one traces, max hold traces, etc, it doesn't work. TESEQ sells and supports PMM in US. You can probably get a demo unit from them. It comes with a free SW but it does minimal - no control of antenna mast or turntable. Sent from Wendy.Nya iPhone On Aug 30, 2011, at 6:31 PM, Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com wrote: I should add that the main standard we test to is EN 55022. Thanks James From: Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com] Sent: 30 August 2011 11:12 To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Hello, We are budgeting for a replacement for our ageing RS ESVS10 EMI receiver. Apart from RS I've found Agilent and Teseq that make EMI receivers. Does anyone have any thoughts on which EMI receiver manufacturer they prefer and why? I'm thinking about things like support, software to drive the receiver, cost of repair and calibration, reliability etc. Also, are there other manufacturers that I've not found yet? We seem to have had good reliability from our RS receiver (12+ years of service) but repairs have always seemed expensive and taken a long time. Support is generally good compared to other test equipment manufacturers. Thanks in advance James ~~ James Pawson Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC EchoStar Europe ~~ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
In message 8ce362b4daae905-16b4-13...@webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com writes: A cable is only its characteristic impedance when fed and terminated in matching impedance. That's why I said non-perfect impedance of the cable The characteristic impedance IS an intrinsic property of the cable; the full expression is: Z = sqrt((R+jwL)/G+jwC)), where R, L, G and C are per (the same) unit length. At a sufficiently high frequency, wLR and with a sufficiently low-loss dielectric GwC, so that Z simplifies to sqrt(L/C). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
I had forgotten about that fact. In what I wrote, the assumption was that an IF was being fed back to the rest of the receiver, and that it was at a lower frequency than the rf, and hence the claimed lower cable loss. But fiber is better if the entire down-conversion and detection is done at the antenna, and basically detected video is being fed back. In fact, that eliminates a lot of expense in low-loss coax. That alone could be worth several thousand $$ or pounds or whatever... Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:22:36 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message ca83e27d.bf05f%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Then the rest of the connection all the way back to the receiver should be well-matched 50 Ohm sections. I believe the product in question has a fibre-optic link. I wonder what the impedance of that is. (Half serious.) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
HI Ken, excuse my nievity here, but I need help understanding this. A cable is only its characteristic impedance when fed and terminated in matching impedance. That's why I said non-perfect impedance of the cable. So, since the antenna output impedance is all over the place, you can't say that the cable is 50 Ohms. To get around this, we add pads on antennas ( like when we do NSA measurements ) to improve the match between antenna and cable. I would argue that the receiver head, with a pretty good termination right there, is much better than the uncontrolled match between the antenna and Zo of the cable. What am I missing? Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 12:15 pm Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Expansion on this: “Less issues matching a complex source impedance like and antenna to the non-perfect impedance of a cable.” Cable is usually 50 Ohms. It is the antenna that can have a relatively high vswr into 50 Ohms, especially at the low end of use (i.e., biconical below 80 MHz, and in general wideband antennas at their low end). If the rf head has a 50 Ohm output impedance, then the match is better than the antenna alone, and the measurement accuracy increases due to lower vswr. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:56:39 -0400 (EDT) To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? All good points. you could add that the antenna would better represent free space. I wonder what the effect of Cal factors would be? Less issues matching a complex source impedance like and antenna to the non-perfect impedance of a cable. Elimination of temperature effects of the cable dielectric. I'm sure there are more. Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 11:10 am Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message 40be5b4eca254ad7bae8a4d5ef896...@tamuracorp.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Why is it good that the 'RF head' is separate and/or can be attached to the antenna? No cable loss? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk http://www.isce.org.uk http://www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
In message ca83e27d.bf05f%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Then the rest of the connection all the way back to the receiver should be well-matched 50 Ohm sections. I believe the product in question has a fibre-optic link. I wonder what the impedance of that is. (Half serious.) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
Most mixers are a poor match to 50 Ohms, and the manufacturer's instructions will generally advise insertion of 10 dB between mixer and cable for that reason. Of course, their noise figure or noise floor specification is based on 0 dB attenuation. Connecting the mixer directly to the antenna output places two potentially poor matches to 50 Ohms in immediate proximity, and the short distance between them will minimize vswr-induced inaccuracy. Then the rest of the connection all the way back to the receiver should be well-matched 50 Ohm sections. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:51:32 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message ca83d601.bf043%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Cable is usually 50 Ohms. Well, people do sometimes tread on it or even stand heavy equipment on it, but in general I agree that, if treated with care, good quality cable has an impedance more stable and better-behaved than many antennas and even receivers. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
In message ca83d601.bf043%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com writes: Cable is usually 50 Ohms. Well, people do sometimes tread on it or even stand heavy equipment on it, but in general I agree that, if treated with care, good quality cable has an impedance more stable and better-behaved than many antennas and even receivers. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
Expansion on this: “Less issues matching a complex source impedance like and antenna to the non-perfect impedance of a cable.” Cable is usually 50 Ohms. It is the antenna that can have a relatively high vswr into 50 Ohms, especially at the low end of use (i.e., biconical below 80 MHz, and in general wideband antennas at their low end). If the rf head has a 50 Ohm output impedance, then the match is better than the antenna alone, and the measurement accuracy increases due to lower vswr. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:56:39 -0400 (EDT) To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? All good points. you could add that the antenna would better represent free space. I wonder what the effect of Cal factors would be? Less issues matching a complex source impedance like and antenna to the non-perfect impedance of a cable. Elimination of temperature effects of the cable dielectric. I'm sure there are more. Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 11:10 am Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message 40be5b4eca254ad7bae8a4d5ef896...@tamuracorp.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Why is it good that the 'RF head' is separate and/or can be attached to the antenna? No cable loss? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk http://www.isce.org.uk http://www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
All good points. you could add that the antenna would better represent free space. I wonder what the effect of Cal factors would be? Less issues matching a complex source impedance like and antenna to the non-perfect impedance of a cable. Elimination of temperature effects of the cable dielectric. I'm sure there are more. Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2011 11:10 am Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? In message 40be5b4eca254ad7bae8a4d5ef896...@tamuracorp.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Why is it good that the 'RF head' is separate and/or can be attached to the antenna? No cable loss? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
In message 40be5b4eca254ad7bae8a4d5ef896...@tamuracorp.com, dated Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Why is it good that the 'RF head' is separate and/or can be attached to the antenna? No cable loss? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK When I point to a star, please look at the star, not my finger. The star will be more interesting. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
Why is it good that the 'RF head' is separate and/or can be attached to the antenna? Brian the EMC amateur -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:21 PM To: ken.ja...@emccompliance.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Just a quick note about the Teseq Receiver. I think you really mean the PMM marketed by Teseq. This really is a super little receiver. It's CISPR compliant, but it also does neat tricks like has a click option, and also the MIL 6 dB BW. My favorite feature though is that the RF head is separate and can attach directly on the antenna. Optical fibre feeds the signal outside the chamber and breaks any ground connections... That's sweet! The 18 GHz module was released at the IEEE EMC show. I'm sure R and S is good stuff, but its way too many $$ My 10 cents worth. Derek Walton L F Research - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
Just a quick note about the Teseq Receiver. I think you really mean the PMM marketed by Teseq. This really is a super little receiver. It's CISPR compliant, but it also does neat tricks like has a click option, and also the MIL 6 dB BW. My favorite feature though is that the RF head is separate and can attach directly on the antenna. Optical fibre feeds the signal outside the chamber and breaks any ground connections... That's sweet! The 18 GHz module was released at the IEEE EMC show. I'm sure R and S is good stuff, but its way too many $$ My 10 cents worth. Derek Walton L F Research -Original Message- From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tue, Aug 30, 2011 10:25 am Subject: Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? No experience with it, but wondering if anyone else out there has used the Amplifier Research CER2018A. This is a receiver that was under development by a company that AR bought a few years back. AR’s description says the following: “The CER2018A offers continuous coverage from 20 Hz to 18 GHz with expandability to 40 GHz and it also exceeds CISPR 16-1-1 Ed 2.0 October 2007. It combines state-of-the-art sensitivity, dynamic range, accuracy, and easy operation in a CISPR-compliant instrument. To ensure the highest accuracy, self-calibration is selectable at every frequency scan. It’s a complete EMI test solution with test formats such as CISPR 16-1-1, MIL-STD 461/462, ANSI C63 and FCC programmed in upon request. The receiver includes a built-in computer that operates under Windows XP. Software is also included along with a 19” flat screen monitor, keyboard and mouse. offers continuous coverage from 20 Hz to 18 GHz with expandability to 40 GHz and it also exceeds CISPR 16-1-1 Ed 2.0 October 2007. It combines state-of-the-art sensitivity, dynamic range, accuracy, and easy operation in a CISPR-compliant instrument. To ensure the highest accuracy, self-calibration is selectable at every frequency scan. It’s a complete EMI test solution with test formats such as CISPR 16-1-1, MIL-STD 461/462, ANSI C63 and FCC programmed in upon request. The receiver includes a built-in computer that operates under Windows XP. Software is also included along with a 19” flat screen monitor, keyboard and mouse.” I witness a lot of EMI testing, and have never seen this receiver in use. I realize that is hardly an endorsement, but that isn’t the purpose here. The purpose is to flag another possible receiver, and see if anyone has used it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:12:14 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Conversation: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Subject: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Hello, We are budgeting for a replacement for our ageing RS ESVS10 EMI receiver. Apart from RS I've found Agilent and Teseq that make EMI receivers. Does anyone have any thoughts on which EMI receiver manufacturer they prefer and why? I'm thinking about things like support, software to drive the receiver, cost of repair and calibration, reliability etc. Also, are there other manufacturers that I've not found yet? We seem to have had good reliability from our RS receiver (12+ years of service) but repairs have always seemed expensive and taken a long time. Support is generally good compared to other test equipment manufacturers. Thanks in advance James ~~ James Pawson Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC EchoStar Europe ~~ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org
Re: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
No experience with it, but wondering if anyone else out there has used the Amplifier Research CER2018A. This is a receiver that was under development by a company that AR bought a few years back. AR’s description says the following: “The CER2018A offers continuous coverage from 20 Hz to 18 GHz with expandability to 40 GHz and it also exceeds CISPR 16-1-1 Ed 2.0 October 2007. It combines state-of-the-art sensitivity, dynamic range, accuracy, and easy operation in a CISPR-compliant instrument. To ensure the highest accuracy, self-calibration is selectable at every frequency scan. It’s a complete EMI test solution with test formats such as CISPR 16-1-1, MIL-STD 461/462, ANSI C63 and FCC programmed in upon request. The receiver includes a built-in computer that operates under Windows XP. Software is also included along with a 19” flat screen monitor, keyboard and mouse. offers continuous coverage from 20 Hz to 18 GHz with expandability to 40 GHz and it also exceeds CISPR 16-1-1 Ed 2.0 October 2007. It combines state-of-the-art sensitivity, dynamic range, accuracy, and easy operation in a CISPR-compliant instrument. To ensure the highest accuracy, self-calibration is selectable at every frequency scan. It’s a complete EMI test solution with test formats such as CISPR 16-1-1, MIL-STD 461/462, ANSI C63 and FCC programmed in upon request. The receiver includes a built-in computer that operates under Windows XP. Software is also included along with a 19” flat screen monitor, keyboard and mouse.” I witness a lot of EMI testing, and have never seen this receiver in use. I realize that is hardly an endorsement, but that isn’t the purpose here. The purpose is to flag another possible receiver, and see if anyone has used it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:12:14 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Conversation: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Subject: EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Hello, We are budgeting for a replacement for our ageing RS ESVS10 EMI receiver. Apart from RS I've found Agilent and Teseq that make EMI receivers. Does anyone have any thoughts on which EMI receiver manufacturer they prefer and why? I'm thinking about things like support, software to drive the receiver, cost of repair and calibration, reliability etc. Also, are there other manufacturers that I've not found yet? We seem to have had good reliability from our RS receiver (12+ years of service) but repairs have always seemed expensive and taken a long time. Support is generally good compared to other test equipment manufacturers. Thanks in advance James ~~ James Pawson Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC EchoStar Europe ~~ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: EMI Receiver - Recommendations?
I should add that the main standard we test to is EN 55022. Thanks James From: Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com] Sent: 30 August 2011 11:12 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMI Receiver - Recommendations? Hello, We are budgeting for a replacement for our ageing RS ESVS10 EMI receiver. Apart from RS I've found Agilent and Teseq that make EMI receivers. Does anyone have any thoughts on which EMI receiver manufacturer they prefer and why? I'm thinking about things like support, software to drive the receiver, cost of repair and calibration, reliability etc. Also, are there other manufacturers that I've not found yet? We seem to have had good reliability from our RS receiver (12+ years of service) but repairs have always seemed expensive and taken a long time. Support is generally good compared to other test equipment manufacturers. Thanks in advance James ~~ James Pawson Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC EchoStar Europe ~~ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
