Re: [Emc-users] Activating edited tool table
At 04:00 PM 7/17/2007, you wrote: On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 03:41:26PM -0500, Andre' Blanchard wrote: Is there a reload for the parameter table, the work offsets in particular? The interpreter reads and writes that file when it needs to and there's no need for the user to worry about it. Just set the offsets with MDI commands (G10 L2 P) or the Touch Off operation in AXIS. If you have ever setup and run a machine in a production setting using all the work offsets you would know that having to use MDI and G10 to do something as simple as bump a work offset a few 0.0001,s is not reasonable. I have run machines where you have to adjust the work offsets up to 0.005 over the course of the first 3 hours every morning as the machine heats up, a 0.0001 or 2 every other part. Better machines do not have as much thermal drift but on those machines you tend to be making closer tolerance parts so you still end up bumping the offsets thru the day. Also near as I can tell there is not any way that a setup person can view local or global variables as the program runs making it difficult to debug macro programs or to even find out how many passes are left in a cut. A page like this would make doing the more complex setups a lot easier. And would get EMC a lot closer to the standard controls used in the machining industry, the graphics in Axis are way better then any control I have used but there are some areas that are very basic to using the control that have been left to work arounds. Probably because they are not as fun to work on as the graphics areas. I also get the feeling that the main programmers working on EMC have not spent a lot of time changing inserts and pushing the green button. Mono spaced font and at least 80 columns before word-wrap *** _ |Work Offset Page 1 of 1 Spindle Control | | S 1000 FWD REV STOP | | | | G92 5211-5219 G54 5221-5229G55 5241-5249G56 5261-5269 | | X +000. 1 X +000. 2 X +000. 3 X +000. | | Y +000. Y +000.Y +000.Y +000. | | Z +000. Z +000.Z +000.Z +000. | | A +000. A +000.A +000.A +000. | | B +000. B +000.B +000.B +000. | | C +000. C +000.C +000.C +000. | | U +000. U +000.U +000.U +000. | | V +000. V +000.V +000.V +000. | | W +000. W +000.W +000.W +000. | |__ | | Current Machine | G57 5281-5289G58 5301-5309G59 5321-5329 | | X +000. |4 X +000. 5 X +000. 6 X +000. | | Y +000. | Y +000.Y +000.Y +000. | | Z +000. | Z +000.Z +000.Z +000. | | A +000. | A +000.A +000.A +000. | | B +000. | B +000.B +000.B +000. | | C +000. | C +000.C +000.C +000. | | U +000. | U +000.U +000.U +000. | | V +000. | V +000.V +000.V +000. | | W +000. | W +000.W +000.W +000. | |__| | |Setup Tool Offsets| G59.1 5341-5349 G59.2 5361-5369 G59.3 5381-5389 | | X +000. |7 X +000. 8 X +000. 9 X +000. | | Y +000. | Y +000.Y +000.Y +000. | | Z +000. | Z +000.Z +000.Z +000. | | A +000. | A +000.A +000.A +000. | | B +000. | B +000.B +000.B +000. | | C +000. | C +000.C +000.C +000. | | U +000. | U +000.U +000.U +000. | | V +000. | V +000.V +000.V +000. | | W +000. | W +000.W +000.W +000. | |__|__| A page like this would be useful for setting up a job in the machine. There are nine work offsets which can be used within a G code program. Also shown is
Re: [Emc-users] Terminal Strips (a little OT)
www.alliedelec.com www.mouser.com and yuo already got a link to digikey. those are the best places to look that I know of. Dale Kirk Wallace wrote: I need to make wire terminations on .25 inch or less spacing for my encoders and limit switches. I have found datasheets on .25 inch barrier and NEMA strips, but I haven't found a supplier yet. Does anyone have a favorite high density terminal system and supplier? And while I am at it -- liquid tight, oil resistant cable boots or gland nuts? Thanks. Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)
At 11:48 PM 7/17/2007, you wrote: Chris Radek wrote: Hi all, I thought I should mention that I merged my nine-axis changes into the cvs trunk. We now have fully coordinated motion in six linear axes (UVWXYZ) and three rotary (ABC). Cool! DAMN cool! One of the quirks in the old days was how to program the rate of these mixed-axes moves. For instance, in an XYA move, it is easy to compute the feedrate of the XY part, but without knowing the radius the cutter is at from the center of the A axis, you can't add that component to the total velocity. How is this handled now? The X,Y U,V wire EDM's I run have a set of what they call Z constants. Z1 is the distance from the machine table to the point at which the X,Y size is held true. Z2 is the distance from the table to the point at which the feed rate is held true. Z3 is the distance from the table to the upper wire guide. Z4 is the distance from the table down to the lower guide. Using this info the control can calculate the displacement of the U,V slides from the X,Y to get the taper angle and the part size programmed in the G code. Also, thanks to some work Jeff did, you can have any set of these defined - whatever is appropriate for your machine. Again, definitely cool! This ought to help with some simple things like knee vs quill on mills (XYZW or XYZAW), as well as maybe being useful for some more specialized setups like foam cutters (XYUV). Yes, we definitely had a restriction for foam cutters and wire EDM, both of which use a pair of parallel X-Y axes. Jon __ Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)
THANK YOU GUYS. That's the best news I've heard in years concerning EMC! Unfortunately my big machine has been on hold for too long but that's great news. I hope to get back to making machine parts this winter. It's good to know that Emc will be ready for my W axis. Good Work! Thank you, Dale Chris Radek wrote: Hi all, I thought I should mention that I merged my nine-axis changes into the cvs trunk. We now have fully coordinated motion in six linear axes (UVWXYZ) and three rotary (ABC). Also, thanks to some work Jeff did, you can have any set of these defined - whatever is appropriate for your machine. This ought to help with some simple things like knee vs quill on mills (XYZW or XYZAW), as well as maybe being useful for some more specialized setups like foam cutters (XYUV). Beware this meant expanding (actually filling in some holes) in the var file. You may need to update yours from CVS if you're running the trunk with a customized config. Ask if you need help, and if you've been waiting for this please report successes or failures! Chris - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)
On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 11:48:44PM -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Chris Radek wrote: I thought I should mention that I merged my nine-axis changes into the cvs trunk. We now have fully coordinated motion in six linear axes (UVWXYZ) and three rotary (ABC). Cool! DAMN cool! One of the quirks in the old days was how to program the rate of these mixed-axes moves. For instance, in an XYA move, it is easy to compute the feedrate of the XY part, but without knowing the radius the cutter is at from the center of the A axis, you can't add that component to the total velocity. How is this handled now? You jump right to the hard questions Jon! This is the same old problem with G94 (feed in units per minute) mode being inappropriate when EMC doesn't know what axis motion corresponds to a unit (inch or mm) on the part. As you already know RS274NGC says for coordinated motion for linear and rotary axes together using G94 mode, the F rate is units per minute in the cartesian (XYZ) axes only, and the rotary (ABC) axes move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. For one thing this means that if the rotary is slow, the cartesian move is slowed down to stay coordinated with it. I've done the same thing for UVW and I'll try to describe it as precisely as possible: If any of XYZ are moving, F is units per minute in the XYZ cartesian system, and all other axes (UVWABC) move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. Otherwise: If any of UVW are moving, F is units per minute in the UVW cartesian system, and all other axes (ABC) move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. Otherwise: The move is pure rotary motion and the F word is in rotary units instead of linear, in the ABC (pseudo)cartesian system, as originally described in NGC 2.1.2.5(B,C) : http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_32a.html#1010695 I feel like G94 (feed in units per minute) only really makes intuitive sense when moving in just one cartesian system. All other types of (cutting) motion ought to be programmed in G93 (inverse time mode), and I've been told that this is standard practice. But that being said, this seemed like a sensible behavior for G94 mode. For instance if you move (G0) the knee of a mill for gross positioning and then cut with the quill, or you use the knee to drill a deep hole (G1), you'll never notice and it will be entirely natural. If you move the knee and quill together to drill a deeper hole (G94 G1 Z-6 W-6 F8) you DO need to understand that you won't have 8 units per minute at the tooltip with respect to the work (in this example you'll get twice that). Chris - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Tuning and HALScope
I need help with tuning my brushed servo setup using HALScope. I have done a search on linuxcnc.org but only found this: First, you need to fire up Halscope. Start EMC2 from a command window like this : node:/home/user/emc2$ scripts/emc The gets you your command prompt back while EMC runs in the background. Now, start halscope like this : node:/home/user/emc2$ bin/halscope You can pull the corner of the scope window to make it bigger. Select the boxed 1 on the lower left corner, and it will show a list of signals to look at. The one you want is ppmc.0.pid.error. This gets me started, but any other information and links would be helpful. Such as, what to use for the trigger and I thought the signals for commanded position and position feedback would be the ones to look at. Thank you. Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)
Chris Radek wrote: You jump right to the hard questions Jon! This is the same old problem with G94 (feed in units per minute) mode being inappropriate when EMC doesn't know what axis motion corresponds to a unit (inch or mm) on the part. Yeah, I figured. As you already know RS274NGC says for coordinated motion for linear and rotary axes together using G94 mode, the F rate is units per minute in the cartesian (XYZ) axes only, and the rotary (ABC) axes move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. For one thing this means that if the rotary is slow, the cartesian move is slowed down to stay coordinated with it. I've done the same thing for UVW and I'll try to describe it as precisely as possible: If any of XYZ are moving, F is units per minute in the XYZ cartesian system, and all other axes (UVWABC) move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. Otherwise: If any of UVW are moving, F is units per minute in the UVW cartesian system, and all other axes (ABC) move so as to start and stop in a coordinated fashion. Otherwise: The move is pure rotary motion and the F word is in rotary units instead of linear, in the ABC (pseudo)cartesian system, as originally described in NGC 2.1.2.5(B,C) : http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_32a.html#1010695 OK, this is pretty much as before, just with added linear coords. What do other manufacturers do for this? We also have the inverse-time programming, if people need this. It all comes down to what the CAM system needs to know about the job. I feel like G94 (feed in units per minute) only really makes intuitive sense when moving in just one cartesian system. All other types of (cutting) motion ought to be programmed in G93 (inverse time mode), and I've been told that this is standard practice. But that being said, this seemed like a sensible behavior for G94 mode. Yes, I suppose. The only place I think it might make sense to do more (and I think it would have to be an option, because it could get in the way, especially if contrary to industry practice) would be with the addition of one rotary axis to XYZ. If the system were defined such that an A axis would be used where Y=0 and Z=0 would be on the axis of the A, then the control knows everything it needs to compute tool-center velocity in 4 axes. For complex surface profiling on a round part, this could handle the correct feedrate. This would allow someone to write a fairly simple code to convert some data set to a toolpath, and let the control handle the feedrate. Maybe this would be a bad idea, anyway, as there are certain cases like the side of the cutting tool coming up against a wall that would need to be dealt with by reducing the feedrate. So, maybe it is just better to FORCE the user to deal with this at the CAM stage. I suppose one other possible case is ALMOST covered by your above rules, and shouldn't be hard to extend. For a 4-axis XY UV system, you could program it where the UV velocity was higher than the XY velocity. (Cutting a cone with the point up in wire-EDM, for instance.) It might be nice to have a mode where XYZ and UVW velocities are both computed, and the highest one limits the feedrate. If I understand what you wrote above, if the UVW rate exceeds the XYZ rate, the XYZ will still be the one that controls the machine, as long as there is SOME movement of the XYZ. This could cause discontinuities in the feedrate where the UVW is in continuous motion, but the XYZ is sometimes moving and sometimes not. I can imagine parts where that would happen. Imagine the point-up cone again, where the hole at the top of the work is REALLY small, but the XY is moving just a little. It might be hard to set reasonable feedrates for the XY to get the feed you want on UV. Of course, inverse-time will fix it, so maybe that is OK, whenever mixing XY and UV, you just do EVERYTHING by inverse-time to avoid the feedrate jumping around. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tuning and HALScope
Kirk Wallace wrote: I need help with tuning my brushed servo setup using HALScope. I have done a search on linuxcnc.org but only found this: First, you need to fire up Halscope. Start EMC2 from a command window like this : node:/home/user/emc2$ scripts/emc The gets you your command prompt back while EMC runs in the background. Now, start halscope like this : node:/home/user/emc2$ bin/halscope You can pull the corner of the scope window to make it bigger. Select the boxed 1 on the lower left corner, and it will show a list of signals to look at. The one you want is ppmc.0.pid.error. This gets me started, but any other information and links would be helpful. Such as, what to use for the trigger and I thought the signals for commanded position and position feedback would be the ones to look at Some of this is outdated, if you have a recent EMC2. You can start Halscope from the pulldown menus on either TKEMC or Axis. I trigger the scope from ppmc.0.encoder.00.delta, which is instantaneous velocity derived from the encoder. Commanded pos and actual pos are good for the grossest error, but quickly you converge to where these two lines fall on top of each other. What really matters is the DIFFERENCE between them, ie. the following error. So, ppmc.0.pid.error is very obsolete, what it is called now, is -- I think -- pid.0.error (for the X axis). Since this is just the difference between commanded and actual, it should always be a small number. I finsih tuning with this on the 200 u scale, that's 200 micro-inches/division. Depending on your encoder resolution, you may not be able to get down quite that far. You've obviously read my now outdated wiki page on tuning, most of the rest of the info there is valid, just the graphs look different. I need to do a set of new graphs with Halscope and revise that page. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tuning and HALScope
On Wed, 2007-07-18 at 12:47 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Kirk Wallace wrote: I need help with tuning my brushed servo setup using HALScope. I have done a search on linuxcnc.org but only found this: First, you need to fire up Halscope. Start EMC2 from a command window ... snip on your encoder resolution, you may not be able to get down quite that far. You've obviously read my now outdated wiki page on tuning, most of the rest of the info there is valid, just the graphs look different. I need to do a set of new graphs with Halscope and revise that page. Jon I recall seeing this page a while back, but I can't seem to find it again. Would you have a link handy? Thanks for the signal updates, I'm on my way out to the shop to work on it (play, really). Kirk Wallace - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] gcode output for xfig updated
GCODE for XFIG? Amazing. I havent used Xfig for about 8 years now, but can you giove me some information about what kind of realistic cnc projects can be done with Xfig? I basically used xfig long ago to create eps drawings for publications. Lrv Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: Hi, someone who wants to stay anonymous donated new font support code the gcode enabled xfig. Thus the downloads are enabled again. Till - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tuning and HALScope
Kirk Wallace wrote: On Wed, 2007-07-18 at 12:47 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Kirk Wallace wrote: I need help with tuning my brushed servo setup using HALScope. I have done a search on linuxcnc.org but only found this: First, you need to fire up Halscope. Start EMC2 from a command window ... snip on your encoder resolution, you may not be able to get down quite that far. You've obviously read my now outdated wiki page on tuning, most of the rest of the info there is valid, just the graphs look different. I need to do a set of new graphs with Halscope and revise that page. Jon I recall seeing this page a while back, but I can't seem to find it again. Would you have a link handy? Thanks for the signal updates, I'm on my way out to the shop to work on it (play, really). http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers From the main wiki page, go to supported hardware, under parallel port based systems are links to my 3 different products, select PWM Controller and there is a description of that board with some hardware setup instructions, and at the very bottom is the link to the above page -- the title is screwy because of the way wikis take the last words of the link to automatically make the name of the link. It isn't specifically about MY servo amps, so maybe I should change the lead-in so it comes out looking like it is about tuning. Yeah, I can find it only because I know where it is in the wiki. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
