Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 February 2017 02:20:30 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control,
> > > > > > where as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal.
> > > > > > You will need some sort of hardware interface between the
> > > > > > two to do a digital to analog conversion.
> > > > >
> > > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on
> > > > > ebay ? I was looking at
> > > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Ha
> > > > >rdwa re
> > > > >
> > > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with
> > > > > their power supply, I would need only a small interface for
> > > > > the spindle.
> > > >
> > > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa
> > > > between them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy
> > > > electrically), and the control is quite linear. I would put the
> > > > pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as that removes the
> > > > need to dither the pulse width because each step is fixed, the
> > > > dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you don't
> > > > need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate
> > > > below the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> > >
> > > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that
> > > they do not have paypal transactions among their choices for
> > > payment, I do not own a credit card
> > >
> > > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board
> > > ?
> >
> > There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the
> > left coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am
> > pretty sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships
> > the same day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's
> > done to me. I would imagine your money order would not be much
> > slower.  Another day perhaps.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here
>
>
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
>
> I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy
>
Thats a bummer. Maurius L., or Andy, is there not someone on your side of 
the pond that could get it there faster for when the next time comes up?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 19:13 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > > >
> > > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > > I was looking at
> > > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > > >re
> > > >
> > > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> > >
> > > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
> >
> > I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> > not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> > own a credit card
> >
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
> coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
> sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
> day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
> I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
> perhaps.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Thanks Gene, I have already ordered one spinx1 here


http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

I guess it will take a month or so as I live in Italy





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Re: [Emc-users] No gladevcp on a pi, no glade-gtk2 in the repo's, whats next?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 16 February 2017 00:54:30 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> You seem to have quickly dismissed my idea of using tabs in the pyvcp
> window.  I had set up configs that used a pyvcp panel that had a
> series of buttons for incrementally jogging the machine coordinates. 
> There were 4 tabs, one for jogging inches, tenths, hundredths, and
> thousandths.  On each tab was an identical grid of jogging buttons and
> a label for the increment.  It worked well and looked good.  The main
> downside was it used 32 halui mdi pins for 8 buttons. sceenshot.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/3190/error2.png
>
>
Looks pretty good Todd, but thats not what I want to do. I want it to 
tell me when PI need to stop and change the belt to a different "gear".  
This can be done with some hal modules and 3 pyvcp leds.  The led's are 
already on the gui, and I'm waiting for mpja.com to send me some belt 
position sensors in the form of a 4 channel ir obstacle detector.  
Friday maybe. Depending on how they work, I'll get another and put it on 
the backgear lever so LCNC will then know exactly what gear its in.  If 
I ask for 1000 revs, it can't do that in backgear out, 1st gear on the 
belt as I have the vfd set for 150 Hz tops=800 revs.  So I want it to 
tell me it needs a higher gear. There comes a point where I'd need a 5 
horse motor, but them puppies be heavily gold plated whereas I have $25 
each in the pair of 1 hp's I got from a local scrap dealer. I took a 3/4 
single phase off it that weighs what these 2 do together.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 9:38:15 PM
> Subject: [Emc-users] No gladevcp on a pi, no glade-gtk2 in the
> repo's,   whats next?
>
> Greetings guys;
>
> I just spent an hour, both on this machine,  and on the pi, trying to
> make the one example gvcp-panel.test.ui we have, run. I can get a tiny
> led out of it on this wheezy machine, but Glade 3+ on the pi knows
> nothing of the widget creation commands in that file.  ,
> HAL_LED, 95% of the file is an error report.
>
> So it looks like gtk2+ is officially shitcanned.
>
> Except all the /usr/lib/python2.7/gladevcp stuff is there on the pi, I
> think:
> ls =
> calculator.glade  gladebuilder.pyc hal_filechooser.py
> hal_lightbutton.py   hal_pythonplugin.py   __init__.py
> offsetpage.glade   persistence.pyc
> calculatorwidget.py   gladevcp-test.glade  hal_filechooser.pyc
> hal_lightbutton.pyc  hal_pythonplugin.pyc  __init__.pyc
> offsetpage_widget.py   speedcontrol.py
> calculatorwidget.pyc  hal_actions.py   hal_graph.py
> hal_mdihistory.pyhal_sourceview.py jogwheel.py
> offsetpage_widget.pyc  speedcontrol.pyc
> combi_dro.py  hal_actions.pyc  hal_graph.pyc
> hal_mdihistory.pyc   hal_sourceview.pycjogwheel.pyc 
> offsetwidget.py tooledit_gtk.glade
> combi_dro.pyc hal_bar.py   hal_gremlin_plus.py
> hal_meter.py hal_widgets.pyled.py
> offsetwidget.pyc   tooledit_widget.py
> drowidget.py  hal_bar.pyc  hal_gremlin_plus.pyc
> hal_meter.pychal_widgets.pyc   led.pyc
> overridewidget.py  tooledit_widget.pyc
> drowidget.pyc hal_dial.py  hal_gremlin.py
> hal_pyngcgui.py  iconview.py   makepins.py
> overridewidget.pyc xembed.py
> gladebuilder.py   hal_dial.pyc hal_gremlin.pyc
> hal_pyngcgui.pyc iconview.pyc  makepins.pyc 
> persistence.py xembed.pyc
>
> I did find a 3 yo msg with google that recommended setting up env vars
> with export for where it was, found the python-2.7 versions and
> exported that path, but if it helped I didn't/couldn't tell.
> glade-3.18.xx apparently can't use it.
>
> What do we do next? pyvcp I am told cannot do what I want.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 22:41:55 Jon Elson wrote:

> Well, took QUITE a while, but I now have the Blum TC50 touch
> probe set up on my Bridgeport.
> (This is the one that I had at the Wichita code fest.)  I
> now have the interface in a box mounted on the mill, and
> made a few mods to that.  When I had it in Wichita, there
> was a switch to allow the machine to move when the probe was
> not installed.  it was possible to defeat the probe safety
> and thereby break the probe tip.  Now, I have a probe on
> button and a probe off button.  When you press probe off, it
> turns the probe off and allows the machine to move.  When
> you press probe on, it turns the probe on and if the IR
> receiver is not getting a valid signal from the probe, it
> asserts motion.feed-hold to stop the machine.  If you press
> probe on when you install the probe in the spindle, it
> pretty much protects you from breaking the probe.
>
> One little oddity I noticed was that if the probe is tripped
> when you start a jog move, LinuxCNC doesn't complain like it
> would when the probe trips DURING a jog move.  Well, that
> makes sense as if you interrupt a probe routine, you may
> need to jog off the probe.  But, it means you need to be
> careful!
>
> Jon
>
That little gotcha has caused me to smash a couple tools, after they were 
pressed/smashed into the pcb board I was using for contact materiel.  
Turns the air a little blue too.

I made the Sheldon run a bit smoother tonight, I discovered I can't count 
zero's worth a toot, so the servo-thread I thought I had running at 2 
kilohertz, was actually running at 200 Hz. No wonder the watchdog was 
biteing.

Fooling around with the spindle, I  noticed I had never cut the slot in 
the lock ring that was supposed to grab the backplate hub, took the 
chuck off to finish that minor detail, then when re-installing it, I 
could see a teeny teeny wobble at the backplate/chuck contact.  So I 
finally got brave and removed the chuck's 3 mounting bolts.  Putting a 
dial on the face of the plate, it was a mess, nowhere near flat by 
nearly 10 thou!  So I rustled up a tool, cut most of the dirt off the 
outside of the ledge (should have taken off another 2 thou, see below) 
then brought it to the outside edge & drove it toward the spindle until 
it had left a clean cut all the way around, then drove it all the way to 
the ledge. When I started, a .5" rod had about .0075" runout. Put it 
back together, put the dial back on to check runout with the bolts just 
finger tight, found the high spot of about 6 thou, tapped it with a 
deadblow hammer, no change. Hit it harder. Wash, rinse repeat, 4th heavy 
hit it finally moved, and 7 thou turned into 2.5 thou, but at that point 
I was either out of bolthole clearance or ledge clearance. Next time I 
have it apart I'll take another 2 off the ledge.

I'd gone out to put a home switch on X. But I'm easily distracted so its 
still laying on the mills keyboard table. :)

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] No gladevcp on a pi, no glade-gtk2 in the repo's, whats next?

[Todd Zuercher]

You seem to have quickly dismissed my idea of using tabs in the pyvcp window.  
I had set up configs that used a pyvcp panel that had a series of buttons for 
incrementally jogging the machine coordinates.  There were 4 tabs, one for 
jogging inches, tenths, hundredths, and thousandths.  On each tab was an 
identical grid of jogging buttons and a label for the increment.  It worked 
well and looked good.  The main downside was it used 32 halui mdi pins for 8 
buttons.
sceenshot.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/3190/error2.png


- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 9:38:15 PM
Subject: [Emc-users] No gladevcp on a pi, no glade-gtk2 in the repo's,  whats 
next?

Greetings guys;

I just spent an hour, both on this machine,  and on the pi, trying to 
make the one example gvcp-panel.test.ui we have, run. I can get a tiny 
led out of it on this wheezy machine, but Glade 3+ on the pi knows 
nothing of the widget creation commands in that file.  , HAL_LED, 
95% of the file is an error report.

So it looks like gtk2+ is officially shitcanned.

Except all the /usr/lib/python2.7/gladevcp stuff is there on the pi, I 
think:
ls =
calculator.glade  gladebuilder.pyc hal_filechooser.py
hal_lightbutton.py   hal_pythonplugin.py   __init__.py   
offsetpage.glade   persistence.pyc
calculatorwidget.py   gladevcp-test.glade  hal_filechooser.pyc   
hal_lightbutton.pyc  hal_pythonplugin.pyc  __init__.pyc  
offsetpage_widget.py   speedcontrol.py
calculatorwidget.pyc  hal_actions.py   hal_graph.py  
hal_mdihistory.pyhal_sourceview.py jogwheel.py   
offsetpage_widget.pyc  speedcontrol.pyc
combi_dro.py  hal_actions.pyc  hal_graph.pyc 
hal_mdihistory.pyc   hal_sourceview.pycjogwheel.pyc  offsetwidget.py
tooledit_gtk.glade
combi_dro.pyc hal_bar.py   hal_gremlin_plus.py   
hal_meter.py hal_widgets.pyled.py
offsetwidget.pyc   tooledit_widget.py
drowidget.py  hal_bar.pyc  hal_gremlin_plus.pyc  
hal_meter.pychal_widgets.pyc   led.pyc   
overridewidget.py  tooledit_widget.pyc
drowidget.pyc hal_dial.py  hal_gremlin.py
hal_pyngcgui.py  iconview.py   makepins.py   
overridewidget.pyc xembed.py
gladebuilder.py   hal_dial.pyc hal_gremlin.pyc   
hal_pyngcgui.pyc iconview.pyc  makepins.pyc  persistence.py 
xembed.pyc

I did find a 3 yo msg with google that recommended setting up env vars 
with export for where it was, found the python-2.7 versions and exported 
that path, but if it helped I didn't/couldn't tell. glade-3.18.xx 
apparently can't use it.

What do we do next? pyvcp I am told cannot do what I want.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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OffsetJogButtons.xml
Description: XML document
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Re: [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface ?

[Jon Elson]

Well, took QUITE a while, but I now have the Blum TC50 touch 
probe set up on my Bridgeport.
(This is the one that I had at the Wichita code fest.)  I 
now have the interface in a box mounted on the mill, and 
made a few mods to that.  When I had it in Wichita, there 
was a switch to allow the machine to move when the probe was 
not installed.  it was possible to defeat the probe safety 
and thereby break the probe tip.  Now, I have a probe on 
button and a probe off button.  When you press probe off, it 
turns the probe off and allows the machine to move.  When 
you press probe on, it turns the probe on and if the IR 
receiver is not getting a valid signal from the probe, it 
asserts motion.feed-hold to stop the machine.  If you press 
probe on when you install the probe in the spindle, it 
pretty much protects you from breaking the probe.

One little oddity I noticed was that if the probe is tripped 
when you start a jog move, LinuxCNC doesn't complain like it 
would when the probe trips DURING a jog move.  Well, that 
makes sense as if you interrupt a probe routine, you may 
need to jog off the probe.  But, it means you need to be 
careful!

Jon

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[Emc-users] No gladevcp on a pi, no glade-gtk2 in the repo's, whats next?

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings guys;

I just spent an hour, both on this machine,  and on the pi, trying to 
make the one example gvcp-panel.test.ui we have, run. I can get a tiny 
led out of it on this wheezy machine, but Glade 3+ on the pi knows 
nothing of the widget creation commands in that file.  , HAL_LED, 
95% of the file is an error report.

So it looks like gtk2+ is officially shitcanned.

Except all the /usr/lib/python2.7/gladevcp stuff is there on the pi, I 
think:
ls =
calculator.glade  gladebuilder.pyc hal_filechooser.py
hal_lightbutton.py   hal_pythonplugin.py   __init__.py   
offsetpage.glade   persistence.pyc
calculatorwidget.py   gladevcp-test.glade  hal_filechooser.pyc   
hal_lightbutton.pyc  hal_pythonplugin.pyc  __init__.pyc  
offsetpage_widget.py   speedcontrol.py
calculatorwidget.pyc  hal_actions.py   hal_graph.py  
hal_mdihistory.pyhal_sourceview.py jogwheel.py   
offsetpage_widget.pyc  speedcontrol.pyc
combi_dro.py  hal_actions.pyc  hal_graph.pyc 
hal_mdihistory.pyc   hal_sourceview.pycjogwheel.pyc  offsetwidget.py
tooledit_gtk.glade
combi_dro.pyc hal_bar.py   hal_gremlin_plus.py   
hal_meter.py hal_widgets.pyled.py
offsetwidget.pyc   tooledit_widget.py
drowidget.py  hal_bar.pyc  hal_gremlin_plus.pyc  
hal_meter.pychal_widgets.pyc   led.pyc   
overridewidget.py  tooledit_widget.pyc
drowidget.pyc hal_dial.py  hal_gremlin.py
hal_pyngcgui.py  iconview.py   makepins.py   
overridewidget.pyc xembed.py
gladebuilder.py   hal_dial.pyc hal_gremlin.pyc   
hal_pyngcgui.pyc iconview.pyc  makepins.pyc  persistence.py 
xembed.pyc

I did find a 3 yo msg with google that recommended setting up env vars 
with export for where it was, found the python-2.7 versions and exported 
that path, but if it helped I didn't/couldn't tell. glade-3.18.xx 
apparently can't use it.

What do we do next? pyvcp I am told cannot do what I want.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 15:12:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where
> > > > as the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will
> > > > need some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a
> > > > digital to analog conversion.
> > >
> > > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > > I was looking at
> > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardwa
> > >re
> > >
> > > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> >
> > Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the
> > computer to drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between
> > them, for the noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and
> > the control is quite linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen
> > mode, see the man page as that removes the need to dither the pulse
> > width because each step is fixed, the dither keeps it at the
> > requested speed. But with PDM, you don't need the dither.  With SW
> > pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below the servothread by about
> > half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
> not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
> own a credit card
>
> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>
There are actually 2 web stores, one by Peter C. Wallace, out on the left 
coast, and Big John Thortons's site in southern Missouri. I am pretty 
sure either would take a check or money order. Big John ships the same 
day if he has it, 3 days to West Virginia is the worst he's done to me. 
I would imagine your money order would not be much slower.  Another day 
perhaps.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 10:36 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?


> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
>
> suggestions?

If you reply with the Toshiba model number, we could give you better 
information. Pictures and overview of your project would be even better.

Basic direction an speed control can be done with just a parallel port 
and a few electronic parts. Here is an example:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_pwm_spindle_speed

The PWM bits create an analog signal using a digital parallel port pin 
and switching it on/off in a way that effectively acts like an analog 
signal. This would go to your VFD analog speed or frequency input. This 
is only needed if you want LinuxCNC to control VFD speed. The example 
shows the PWM signal being connected to the parallel port pin 9.

Sections 3 and 4 below the spindle section (2) connect the basic digital 
signals to parallel port pins 14, 16, and 17.

Usually the VFD inputs are opto-isolators which are usually a floating 
LED and current limit resistor circuit. Common parallel port buffer 
boards are good for driving these inputs. A breakout board with 
opto-isolators is not needed. A nice thing about parallel ports is that 
add-on cards are cheap and you can add as many ports as your computer 
slots can hold. The down side is that parallel ports are slow, so the 
PWM signal will not have high resolution.

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:57 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> >
> > Thanks, I just placed an order
> >
> > btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> > I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> > enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> > connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> > signal commands the axes and spindle.
> >
> 
> I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
> when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.


it is only a question of space, if I have enought pins left empty I
could wire them separately




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:46 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

>
> Thanks, I just placed an order
>
> btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
> I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
> enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
> connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
> signal commands the axes and spindle.
>

I'm not sure why you want to wire them together. There are many situations
when I want my axes enabled but spindle disabled.
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 22:22 +0200, Andrew wrote:
> 2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:
> 
> > is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
> >
> 
> Sure
> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91
> 
> Andrew


Thanks, I just placed an order

btw, my spindle does not have an encoder so I will not do threading and
I do not need a 'reverse' signal, only a 'forward' signal, and the
enable signal is going to be wired together with axis enable and
connected to the Amplifier Enable pin, so that a single amplifier enable
signal commands the axes and spindle.



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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Andrew]

2017-02-15 22:12 GMT+02:00 Valerio Bellizzomi:

> is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?
>

Sure
http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91

Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 14:32 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > > analog conversion.
> >
> > is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> > I was looking at
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
> >
> > I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> > power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.
> 
> Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
> drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
> noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
> linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
> that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
> fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
> don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
> the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.


I have checked out the mesa store, it is a problem for me that they do
not have paypal transactions among their choices for payment, I do not
own a credit card

is there another way to purchase say a spinx1 or equivalent board ?




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 14:13:17 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> > The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as
> > the parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need
> > some sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to
> > analog conversion.
>
> is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
> I was looking at
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
>
> I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their
> power supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle.

Using software stepping? I'd still use a pwmgen module in the computer to 
drive the vfd, but I'd put a SpinX1, from Mesa between them, for the 
noise isolation (vfd's are noisy electrically), and the control is quite 
linear. I would put the pwmgen in the PDMgen mode, see the man page as 
that removes the need to dither the pulse width because each step is 
fixed, the dither keeps it at the requested speed. But with PDM, you 
don't need the dither.  With SW pwmgens, I'd choose a refresh rate below 
the servothread by about half, the vfd shouldn't mind.
>
> > On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>>
> > >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max
> > >>> 20mA), is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode
> > >>> command ?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> > >>
> > >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> > >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> > >> affect your VFD speed
> > >>
> > >> function. So:
> > >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent --
> > >>> 20ma hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL
> > >>> .comp component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> > >>
> > >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> > >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> > >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> > >> component (software).
> > >
> > > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > >
> > > suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
> > 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 February 2017 13:45:38 dragon wrote:

> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some
> sort of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog
> conversion.

I am currently running one of the Chinese fakes you see a gross of on 
ebay at any one time for small change over a $100 bill.  No Modbus at 
all anyplace in it, just an assortment of analog and dir sigs needed.

However, its opto-isolated, so for linear speed responses that fails 
rather badly at the low pwmgen percentages because the opto-isolators 
are too slow. But with a Mesa SpinX1 ($18) between them, I have quite 
linear speed control, and the SpinX1 helps to isolate the VFD's 
switching noises too. I haven't fully optimized the VFD yet, but I can 
reverse a 40lb chuck turning 200 revs in about 1 rev after making a 
locking collar so the chuck won't unscrew itself. It will do it even 
faster. That will do rigid tapping rather nicely, so I'm a happy camper.

Motor is a 1hp 3 phase 230 volt I'd bought two of at a recycle facility 
here in town for a $50 bill (and no, I wasn't armed), lathe is an old 
Sheldon 11x36. This VFD is a 1.5hp rated model.  Seems quite 
bulletproof. I am not saying this is the only way, but it works for me.

And I am running it all with a Raspberry pi 3b, and a Mesa 7i90 
interface.

I am not thru building the lathe to fully operational yet, and progress 
is slow ATM, with my afternoons tied up visiting the wife, who is 
currently in rehab about 20 miles away, getting used to a replacement 
hip.

> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA),
> >>> is that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL
> >> connected to another HALpin that handles the hardware that can
> >> affect your VFD speed
> >>
> >> function. So:
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma
> >>> hardware ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp
> >>> component file -- wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can
> >> use to connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide
> >> what hardware you want to use and look for or make the HAL
> >> component (software).
> >
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> >
> > suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 12:45 -0600, dragon wrote:
> The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
> parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
> of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.


is there a list of supported hardware, that I could buy on ebay ?
I was looking at 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware

I have already 3 stepper drivers mounted in a metal box with their power
supply, I would need only a small interface for the spindle


> 
> 
> On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> >>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Briefly, mostly yes.
> >>
> >> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> >> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> >> function. So:
> >>
> >>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma 
> >>> hardware
> >>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> >>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
> >>
> >> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> >> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> >> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> > parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> > 
> > suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[dragon]

The 20ma control circuit on the VFD is an analog control, where as the
parallel port pin is a digital (on/off) signal. You will need some sort
of hardware interface between the two to do a digital to analog conversion.




On 02/15/2017 12:36 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
>>> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Briefly, mostly yes.
>>
>> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
>> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
>> function. So:
>>
>>> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
>>> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
>>> wire from hardware interface to VFD
>>
>> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
>> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
>> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
>>
> 
> 
> I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
> parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.
> 
> suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2017-02-15 at 10:22 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> > that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> 
> Briefly, mostly yes.
> 
> The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
> another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
> function. So:
> 
> > S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> > ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- 
> > wire from hardware interface to VFD
> 
> In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
> connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
> you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).
> 


I am not aware of any interface hardware , I thought to wire one
parallel pin to the vfd, but I might be wrong.

suggestions?




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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 09:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.

Briefly, mostly yes.

The S word has an associated HALpin. This HALpin can be HAL connected to 
another HALpin that handles the hardware that can affect your VFD speed 
function. So:

> S word --> S word HALpin --> 20ma HALpin/20ma HALcomponent -- 20ma hardware
> ^^ g-code/MDI -- .hal configuration file -- HAL .comp component file -- wire 
> from hardware interface to VFD

In other words, LinuxCNC already has a S word HALpin that you can use to 
connect your 20ma interface to. You would need to decide what hardware 
you want to use and look for or make the HAL component (software).

-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 09:51 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 08:24 AM, dragon wrote:
>> So some more questions about VFDs...
>>
>> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
>> extra cost?
>>
>> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
>>
>> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>>
>> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?
>
> For a basic mill or lathe spindle modifying an existing VFD HAL
> component to your VFD is not hard to do.

The comments in this file might help:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?New_File_From_Vfs11


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> So some more questions about VFDs...
> 
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?

It is cheaper.

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Re: [Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Ed]

On 02/15/2017 11:25 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
> that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
I am using a VFS11 series. It can use 20ma or 10v plus direction for 
signals. What are you planning to drive it with? (Interface hardware)

Ed.


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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/15/2017 10:51 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> For extra credit, ideally, a VFD component could just describe the
> available functions and options for communications. Then Modbus HAL
> components could be made for a mix of servers, clients and channels
> independently of the device details. I think work has been done in this
> regard, but it tends to not be widely published. :(
> Hmm ..., maybe here:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModbusToHal

And here:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/mb2hal.html


And somewhat less usefully here:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/mb2hal.1.html


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Kirk Wallace]

On 02/15/2017 08:24 AM, dragon wrote:
> So some more questions about VFDs...
>
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?
>
> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
>
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

For a basic mill or lathe spindle modifying an existing VFD HAL 
component to your VFD is not hard to do. There are two basic parts to 
the component; the Modbus connection/communication, and the VFD 
data/HALpin configuration.

The Modbus bit needs to know what port, protocol, rate to use.

Then what to send/receive on the Modbus connection needs to be set up, 
such as a set of VFD functions (Forward, Reverse, Stop, Brake, Speed, 
etc. ) and the associated the data words/registers for the particular VFD.

An existing VFD HAL component will have all of this in place. It's just 
a matter of consulting the manual for the new VFD to edit the details. 
This should be easyish for someone handy at making other HAL components.

For extra credit, ideally, a VFD component could just describe the 
available functions and options for communications. Then Modbus HAL 
components could be made for a mix of servers, clients and channels 
independently of the device details. I think work has been done in this 
regard, but it tends to not be widely published. :(
Hmm ..., maybe here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModbusToHal

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 02/15/2017 09:24 AM, dragon wrote:
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
>
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

I don't know of a good authoritative/exhaustive list of supported VFDs, 
but that would clearly be a very useful thing to have.

It should live in a document under the "Hardware Drivers" heading in our 
docs:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/

The best way to figure out what VFDs we support is probably to scan all 
the manpages.  I grepped for 'vfd' and got this list:

man9/wj200_vfd.9
man1/vfs11_vfd.1
man1/vfdb_vfd.1
man1/hy_vfd.1
man1/gs2.1

It's silly that some are in section 1 ("Commands and userspace 
components") and some in section 9 ("Realtime components and kernel 
modules"), they probably all belong in section 1.


Patches to fix these two problems with the docs would be gratefully 
accepted.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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[Emc-users] vfd compatibility

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Hello,

I have an Toshiba vfd which has a current signal input (max 20mA), is
that compatible with linuxcnc to be wired to S gcode command ?


Thanks.



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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dannym]

AFAIK any quality VFD made in the last 5+ yrs will be sensorless vector drive, 
at basically the same cost as earlier VFDs. 

Hitachi WJ200 is a sensorless vector drive.  It's not super-expensive, and it's 
a Hitachi.  Yes it has a Modbus driver for it.

HY has worked ok for people, but I would never consider it, a reliable WJ200 is 
only a bit more $.

Danny

 dragon  wrote: 
> So some more questions about VFDs...
> 
> What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
> extra cost?
> 
> Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?
> 
> Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
> 
> and the HY series of Huanyang drives?
> 
> Thanks again everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/05/2017 01:55 PM, dragon wrote:
> > So it looks like perhaps only the 7.5kW model is the new GT series. I
> > don't need anything near that big so if I go with the Huanyang I would
> > be getting the model that uses the existing driver.
> > 
> > Looking at the driver docs and code, it looks like there is no way to
> > request the motor load. However since the driver has HAL pins to report
> > most of the parameters would it be possible to calculate the spindle load?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 02/03/2017 10:06 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >> On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
> >>> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
> >>> series, could you just use MB2HAL?
> >>
> >> I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
> >> MB2HAL.
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] VFD recommendations

[dragon]

So some more questions about VFDs...

What are the advantages of a sensorless vector drive and is it worth the
extra cost?

Are there any sensorless vector drives that have a supported modbus driver?

Is there a list of VFDs with linuxCNC modbus support somewhere other than...
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus

and the HY series of Huanyang drives?

Thanks again everyone!



On 02/05/2017 01:55 PM, dragon wrote:
> So it looks like perhaps only the 7.5kW model is the new GT series. I
> don't need anything near that big so if I go with the Huanyang I would
> be getting the model that uses the existing driver.
> 
> Looking at the driver docs and code, it looks like there is no way to
> request the motor load. However since the driver has HAL pins to report
> most of the parameters would it be possible to calculate the spindle load?
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/03/2017 10:06 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> On 02/03/2017 07:34 AM, dragon wrote:
>>> I just re-read this... If modbus is correctly implemented in the GT
>>> series, could you just use MB2HAL?
>>
>> I think the Huanyang GT VFD should talk to any Modbus Master, including 
>> MB2HAL.
>>
>>
> 



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