Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Sun, 2020-01-19 at 21:42 -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
> > well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
> > permanent setup
> > 
> > So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
> > 
> > 
> > Ron
> 
> Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting saddle 
> on a caw.
> 
> Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production environments 
> or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless hours to find out 
> if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including LinuxCNC with their 
> products. Most small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit forms, 
> come with Mach or some other thing. When the subject matter comes up I 
> don't recommend their product because it's only available on crippled OS.
> 
> After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of misunderstanding 
> about using Linux in small business environments. I hate to write it, 
> but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with new or DIY CNC 
> machines. When I tried to get small business owners or others at trade 
> shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are impossible to answer. 
> What kind of computer and other electronics HW are needed, who's 
> supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
> 
> I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list. 
> Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.
> 
> Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are 
> just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in 
> their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to EU 
> I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
> 
> LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial use 
> and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the 
> requirements advertised anywhere.
> 
> If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC 
> instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would 
> be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for 
> different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system 
> connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous 
> robots work that way.
> 
> 



That is your desired setup.

I have a pc with parallel port but on it I use a Mesa card, so the
parallel port is useless. I can't find anything better than LinuxCNC to
run my cnc.





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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
permanent setup


So X-forwarding would work, and is easy


Ron


Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting saddle 
on a caw.


Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production environments 
or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless hours to find out 
if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including LinuxCNC with their 
products. Most small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit forms, 
come with Mach or some other thing. When the subject matter comes up I 
don't recommend their product because it's only available on crippled OS.


After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of misunderstanding 
about using Linux in small business environments. I hate to write it, 
but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with new or DIY CNC 
machines. When I tried to get small business owners or others at trade 
shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are impossible to answer. 
What kind of computer and other electronics HW are needed, who's 
supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.


I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list. 
Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.


Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are 
just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in 
their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to EU 
I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.


LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial use 
and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the 
requirements advertised anywhere.


If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC 
instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would 
be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for 
different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system 
connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous 
robots work that way.



--
Rafael


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Stuart Stevenson]

Just for your information if you need it.
There is an electric motor rebuild shop here in Wichita Kansas.
They have a 2000hp dynamometer.
I don't know the hp rating but if the motor goes over that number they have
to coordinate a test the the hospital about 6 blocks away. The hospital and
the power company found out about their dyno when they browned out the
hospital a few years ago.
They do a good job of electric motor rebuilding.


On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 8:31 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 19 January 2020 19:20:12 R C wrote:
>
> > a 100HP motor, is about 75kW, so that's a little over 200kW for 3 of
> > them,  they might see a little blip.. especially near a 'larger' area
> >
> > I work in HPC, we deal with dozens of mW. I actually did get calls for
> > restarting "something"  being told...  please don't do that like that
> > ...
> >
> > (me and my team, unknowingly, caused brown outs *lol*)
> >
> I was in charge of a 30 kw visual output GE UHF tv transmitter back thru
> the 70's. KXNE-19 for the Nebraska ETV Commission, used 2 klystrons
> rated at 100kw input each, but they are old tech now and not very
> efficient, long since retired for more efficient technology, best eff
> was 28%, so when everything was singing on key, the building draw was
> around 230 kw unless the deicers were on which ran it up to 265 kw or
> so. We were Wayne County Nebraska's biggest customer until someone built
> a pair of 300 foot long air conditioned hog barns over east of Wayne. If
> that place sneezed, I had a couple power service trucks in the driveway
> in around 10 minutes. I didn't have to call them, they just sort of
> materialized.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > On 1/19/20 5:00 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > > About a mile away is a few Cinci high speed 3 spindle 5 axis
> > > gantries. Each spindle has a 100 horse motor. I can imagine the
> > > power company could monitor and tell when they start.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 4:57 PM Jon Elson 
> wrote:
> > >> On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >>> I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their
> > >>> seizmo stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can
> > >>> imagine that scenario.  Were you present?
> > >>
> > >> It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was
> > >> working on it.  It did have those insane
> > >> Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not
> > >> set up right, it could create a
> > >> lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace
> > >> manufacturing in the area, I can't imagine
> > >> how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.
> > >>
> > >> Jon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 23:53, R C  wrote:

> is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
> (running stepconf for example?)

With my Mac it "just works" if I log in to the LinuxCNC machine using "ssh -Y"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 19 January 2020 19:20:12 R C wrote:

> a 100HP motor, is about 75kW, so that's a little over 200kW for 3 of
> them,  they might see a little blip.. especially near a 'larger' area
>
> I work in HPC, we deal with dozens of mW. I actually did get calls for
> restarting "something"  being told...  please don't do that like that
> ...
>
> (me and my team, unknowingly, caused brown outs *lol*)
>
I was in charge of a 30 kw visual output GE UHF tv transmitter back thru 
the 70's. KXNE-19 for the Nebraska ETV Commission, used 2 klystrons 
rated at 100kw input each, but they are old tech now and not very 
efficient, long since retired for more efficient technology, best eff 
was 28%, so when everything was singing on key, the building draw was 
around 230 kw unless the deicers were on which ran it up to 265 kw or 
so. We were Wayne County Nebraska's biggest customer until someone built 
a pair of 300 foot long air conditioned hog barns over east of Wayne. If 
that place sneezed, I had a couple power service trucks in the driveway 
in around 10 minutes. I didn't have to call them, they just sort of 
materialized.
>
> Ron
>
> On 1/19/20 5:00 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > About a mile away is a few Cinci high speed 3 spindle 5 axis
> > gantries. Each spindle has a 100 horse motor. I can imagine the
> > power company could monitor and tell when they start.
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 4:57 PM Jon Elson  
wrote:
> >> On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their
> >>> seizmo stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can
> >>> imagine that scenario.  Were you present?
> >>
> >> It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was
> >> working on it.  It did have those insane
> >> Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not
> >> set up right, it could create a
> >> lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace
> >> manufacturing in the area, I can't imagine
> >> how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Jon Elson]

On 01/19/2020 06:00 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

About a mile away is a few Cinci high speed 3 spindle 5 axis gantries. Each
spindle has a 100 horse motor. I can imagine the power company could
monitor and tell when they start.


Yes, years ago at our university dorms, they had a 500 Hp 
electric turbine chiller.  There was a phone on the side
of the unit with a list of all the electric company control 
rooms that had to be notified before the motor was
started.  It was a surprisingly long list.  Generally, the 
thing was started once per season.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
permanent setup


So X-forwarding would work, and is easy


Ron



On 1/19/20 5:25 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Chris Albertson wrote:

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.    I 
think it

might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire 
desktop,

X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



check out xpra
it runs circles around vnc


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[grumpy--- via Emc-users]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Chris Albertson wrote:


Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



check out xpra
it runs circles around vnc


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

right,  I did try to setup VNC.  I am not trying to run things 
"remotely"  I just want to use a machine


I dedicated to run a small mill and lathe, for testing a "test setup" 
(replacing stepper drivers and stepper motors.)


So it is just a temporary thing, to see if I get the right 
configurations etc.



I had some permission issues with VNC, black screen etc.  but after I 
installed some graphics


components, mostly fonts, X-forwarding worked.


Ron


On 1/19/20 5:03 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 3:53 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
(running stepconf for example?)


I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and
forth a lot


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[R C]

a 100HP motor, is about 75kW, so that's a little over 200kW for 3 of 
them,  they might see a little blip.. especially near a 'larger' area


I work in HPC, we deal with dozens of mW. I actually did get calls for 
restarting "something"  being told...  please don't do that like that ...


(me and my team, unknowingly, caused brown outs *lol*)


Ron

On 1/19/20 5:00 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

About a mile away is a few Cinci high speed 3 spindle 5 axis gantries. Each
spindle has a 100 horse motor. I can imagine the power company could
monitor and tell when they start.

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 4:57 PM Jon Elson  wrote:


On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their seizmo
stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can imagine that
scenario.  Were you present?

It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was
working on it.  It did have those insane
Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not
set up right, it could create a
lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace
manufacturing in the area, I can't imagine
how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Chris Albertson]

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 3:53 PM R C  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
> (running stepconf for example?)
>
>
> I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and
> forth a lot
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[Emc-users] Never Mind: X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

it works,  just needs some extra X11 stuff installed.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:X forwarding with linux-cnc
Date:   Sun, 19 Jan 2020 16:51:46 -0700
From:   R C 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net



Hello,


is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications? 
(running stepconf for example?)



I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and 
forth a lot



thanks,


Ron


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Stuart Stevenson]

About a mile away is a few Cinci high speed 3 spindle 5 axis gantries. Each
spindle has a 100 horse motor. I can imagine the power company could
monitor and tell when they start.

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 4:57 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their seizmo
> > stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can imagine that
> > scenario.  Were you present?
> It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was
> working on it.  It did have those insane
> Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not
> set up right, it could create a
> lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace
> manufacturing in the area, I can't imagine
> how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.
>
> Jon
>
>
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[Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

Hello,


is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications? 
(running stepconf for example?)



I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and 
forth a lot



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[R C]

I run a seismograph, you can triangulate signals.  However, I don't know 
why they would see it (or be disturbed by it), the signals they'd be 
looking for  are < 10Hz (cheap geophones) or < 1Hz for anything real 
serious.  Also, since it is not a seismic signal (I am pretty sure)  
they could/would filter it out?


can you register vibrations?  you betcha,  I have a pretty inexpensive 
set of geophones, but I can tell the diffrence between the schoolbus 
driving by, or the UPS truck... (helicopters have a pretty distinct 
pattern too.  :) )


If you are "banging" pretty hard, and just a few hundred feet away,  
yeah, they'd see it.  if the distance is significantly larger..  it 
would register as noise at best.


just my 2 cts,


Ron



Ron

On 1/19/20 3:54 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their 
seizmo

stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can imagine that
scenario.  Were you present?
It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was working on 
it.  It did have those insane
Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not set up 
right, it could create a
lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace manufacturing in the 
area, I can't imagine

how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Jon Elson]

On 01/19/2020 12:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their seizmo
stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can imagine that
scenario.  Were you present?
It certainly was not vibrating to that level when I was 
working on it.  It did have those insane
Gettys motors and drives, so I'll bet when something was not 
set up right, it could create a
lot of vibration.  With all the massive aerospace 
manufacturing in the area, I can't imagine

how anybody could localize where a vibration came from, though.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 18:09, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
>
> That is what makes linuxcnc awesome.   It will run your smallest desktop or
> your largest machining center...
>
> https://youtu.be/39q6kvrSBSk

I wonder if you have the oldest purpose-built CNC still running?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 19 January 2020 12:03:06 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 01/18/2020 11:50 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > In watching the Cinci 5 axis move, the impressive thing to
> > me is how slow it moves.
>
> It is the same thing with why people get hit by trains.
> Their size fools you into thinking they are
> moving slowly, when they are actually moving faster than you
> think.
>
> I did some servo tuning on that Cinci some years ago, and it
> CAN move pretty quickly.
> For us guys who don't regularly use such big iron, it
> DEFINITELY can be intimidating!
>
> Jon
>
I heard rumors of the uni calling when it was oscillating as their seizmo 
stuff was registering it.  At the weight being moved I can imagine that 
scenario.  Were you present?
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Sam Sokolik]

That is what makes linuxcnc awesome.   It will run your smallest desktop or
your largest machining center...

https://youtu.be/39q6kvrSBSk

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 11:05 AM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 01/18/2020 11:50 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > In watching the Cinci 5 axis move, the impressive thing to
> > me is how slow it moves.
> It is the same thing with why people get hit by trains.
> Their size fools you into thinking they are
> moving slowly, when they are actually moving faster than you
> think.
>
> I did some servo tuning on that Cinci some years ago, and it
> CAN move pretty quickly.
> For us guys who don't regularly use such big iron, it
> DEFINITELY can be intimidating!
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Jon Elson]

On 01/18/2020 11:50 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
In watching the Cinci 5 axis move, the impressive thing to 
me is how slow it moves.
It is the same thing with why people get hit by trains.  
Their size fools you into thinking they are
moving slowly, when they are actually moving faster than you 
think.


I did some servo tuning on that Cinci some years ago, and it 
CAN move pretty quickly.
For us guys who don't regularly use such big iron, it 
DEFINITELY can be intimidating!


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

[Tomaz T .]

Hi,
mine is not actually retrofit, but it can be used in commercial purposes, and 
it is 5-axis, electronics from Pico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2MSzw1MhYU

Regards!


From: andrew beck 
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 7:14 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] who is building big cnc machines with linuxcnc

Hi guys

I was just wondering who here has retrofitted any big commercial machines
with linuxcnc  and who actually uses there machine to make parts everyday.
I work in machine shops and am using fagor/ siemens/ controllers all the
time.  and I am retrofitting a cnc mill myself as a project and so I can
start my own machine shop at home on the farm.

I was thinking maybe if everyone makes a quick video of their machine I
could make a google drive link that everyone can add the videos to.  Then I
could compile everything into one big video.  It would be cool to see all
the big cool projects hiding out there that people have retrofitted with
linux cnc

There are not enough videos of machines actually making parts that are
professional quality.  I know linuxcnc is completely capable of it.  But
just haven't seen many examples.

Regards

Andrew

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