[Emc-users] Encoders
Where do you guys buy yours? Looking for affordable, quality units. Need .25 hollow shaft quadrature encoder, 2000ppr with L-D output. Anyone know a good source? Rob -- Systems Optimization Self Assessment Improve efficiency and utilization of IT resources. Drive out cost and improve service delivery. Take 5 minutes to use this Systems Optimization Self Assessment. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sdnl/114/51450054/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Andy I wanted to get back to this because I am looking at another amp that uses sinusoidal drive. It is a copley 7425 AC drive: http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/7225ac.pdf What they are doing is using two analog +-10v to represent the current command for the u and v and then they are synthesizing w either 120 or 90 degrees apart. This seems pretty doable assuming using something like the 5i20 than a 7i33 card. The obvious benefits are that I get the voltages I need, I get line power so I just need a line filter which will definitely offset the cost of the extra card. but it looks maybe a bit harder to set up. What do you think? --- On Sat, 4/23/11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: robertpa...@corseusa.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 9:57 AM On 23 April 2011 16:14, Robert Pabon robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: If I choose an amp which requires a sinusoidal signal, I am not sure what to do since I haven't shopped for an available The only amp I know of which requires a sinusoidal input (or three PWMs) is the Mesa 7i39. However, the bldc component has three (or six) PWM amplitudes as one of the output options. Hall and Encoder input to 3xPWM output is one of the better-tested configurations, actually. -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Well, I guess I will find out. I just picked up two amps (supposedly new) for $20 each plus shipping. Might be too good to be true, but I guess at that price if I blow them up no big deal. I have started shopping for an oscilloscope just in case... --- On Sun, 4/24/11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sunday, April 24, 2011, 8:01 AM On 24 April 2011 15:39, Robert Pabon robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/7225ac.pdf What they are doing is using two analog +-10v to represent the current command for the u and v and then they are synthesizing w either 120 or 90 degrees apart. Why do they do these strange things? This seems pretty doable assuming using something like the 5i20 than a 7i33 card. Indeed. The bldc component outputs individual UVW amplitudes, you would just ignore the W. I still think an 8i20 would be cheaper and easier. (except for needing an external PSU) -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Yeah, the 80v is the only real downer for me as well but everything else looks good. The PWM command eliminates the need for a pwn to analog conversion card so that is good. cost wise I am waiting on a final answer but they are cheap. My budget is minimal and I am trying to do champagne on a soda budget. I am looking at about $70 per axis for those amps. --- On Fri, 4/22/11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 2:50 PM On 22 April 2011 22:26, Robert Pabon robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: Man my head is starting to spin! No wonder people just go with steppers and call it a day. Maybe my vision is clouded by ignorance but it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to pick up a brushless DC motor, a suitable amp and make it work. The issue is that to commmutate a brushless motor the drive needs to know the rotor position. There are lots of ways that that information can be transmitted, and the manufacturers seem to like to choose deliberately incompatible methods (possibly so that they can guarantee motor and drive compatibility). http://www.servodynamics.com/Drawing/23S-IE.pdf Looks good. No wierdness there, just conventional Hall sensors and an incremental encoder. That's about as easy as it gets. http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/bd30a8.pdf That one looks a little easier than the other, as it takes a PWM input rather than an analogue voltage. It claims to allow you to swap the hall phasing between 60 and 120 degrees, so combined with the 6 possible ways to connect the halls and the 6 possible ways to connect the power cables I think all possibilities are covered. The drawback of the AMC drive you linked is that it only goes up to 80V. How much are they? -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Mark, It isn't that dire, I don't think. I just think that there are a lot of nuances and compromises. I think if you are willing to live with some compromises it isn't that bad, but then again I am just getting started. Here is my understanding of what I need so far: A PC to run EMC. I will need a motion control card (i.e the Mesa5I20 or equivalent). I will need a servo amp. I will need a servo/encoder. My driver is the pc with the mesa 5I20 card as long as I get an amp that accepts PWM input. If I get an amp that requires an analog +-10V signal I then need to add a 7I33 daughter card to deal with the analog input the amp requires. If I choose an amp which requires a sinusoidal signal, I am not sure what to do since I haven't shopped for an available solution for that yet. As far as step and direction, yes there are a ton of step and direction and plenty of open loop products out there and to be honest I think that they would be better served being driven by Mach. If you are using an open loop system, or closing the loop outside of the machine control software then that is what mach is really set up for and that is where the product support base is. Rob --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: robertpa...@corseusa.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 3:57 AM On 4/22/2011 5:26 PM, Robert Pabon wrote: Man my head is starting to spin! No wonder people just go with steppers and call it a day. Maybe my vision is clouded by ignorance but it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to pick up a brushless DC motor, a suitable amp and make it work. Obviously it would be easier to just buy a sorted motor/driver, but then it would be easier to buy a sorted CNC machine as well. So getting back to the motor amp combination for a second someone have a look at hese for a minute and tell me what you think. This is the motor I am using: http://www.servodynamics.com/Drawing/23S-IE.pdf I am using the IG23CS-64-IE2000-S Servo dynamics recommends the 1224-BLS driver for this motor. The 1224BL is the comparable amp: http://www.servodynamics.com/Specs/1224bl_spec.pdf And here are the amps I was looking at using: http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/bd30a8.pdf Servo dynamics says I am fine driving with either sinusoidal or trapezoidal. The AMC is trapezoidal. Obviously need to add a filter card, but otherwise it looks to be in the ballpark. Opinions? Okay, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed here too. I'm currently using steppers on my saw beveler, but have future thoughts of upgrading to a servo based system. So, if what Robert shows as necessary, for one axis I'd need a servo, an amp, a driver, a bunch of cards for the pc end of the affair, an O scope, tons of other test equipment... Have I left anything out? ;-) I'm really beginning to wonder if it's worth the expense. Mark -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
I ran my numbers through a calculator and I needed 38 ounce inches on each axis. That was using some pretty high numbers for my table weights and speeds for my little smithy machine. I think I gave myself 150lbs on the table to account for a tool turret in the future. My motors are rated for 101oz-in. Even running down at about 80v I should still have about 1700RPM out of the motors which with my 5mm lead is good for about 344in per minute which is ridiculously fast for my 8 in travel on my cross slide and my 15 inch travel on my longitudinal axis. I will probably gear down about 5:1 which still gives me nearly 70 ipm. --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: From: Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: robertpa...@corseusa.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 8:16 AM I am trying to do champagne on a soda budget You are not alone. :-) I am looking at about $70 per axis for those amps. That is really cheap. How much power or torque do you need? There was a guy selling brushless drives and motors out of Canada (Vancouver?) for a while on Ebay and his setups were very inexpense. Dave On 4/23/2011 10:49 AM, Robert Pabon wrote: Yeah, the 80v is the only real downer for me as well but everything else looks good. The PWM command eliminates the need for a pwn to analog conversion card so that is good. cost wise I am waiting on a final answer but they are cheap. My budget is minimal and I am trying to do champagne on a soda budget. I am looking at about $70 per axis for those amps. --- On Fri, 4/22/11, andy pughbodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pughbodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 2:50 PM On 22 April 2011 22:26, Robert Pabon robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: Man my head is starting to spin! No wonder people just go with steppers and call it a day. Maybe my vision is clouded by ignorance but it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to pick up a brushless DC motor, a suitable amp and make it work. The issue is that to commmutate a brushless motor the drive needs to know the rotor position. There are lots of ways that that information can be transmitted, and the manufacturers seem to like to choose deliberately incompatible methods (possibly so that they can guarantee motor and drive compatibility). http://www.servodynamics.com/Drawing/23S-IE.pdf Looks good. No wierdness there, just conventional Hall sensors and an incremental encoder. That's about as easy as it gets. http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/bd30a8.pdf That one looks a little easier than the other, as it takes a PWM input rather than an analogue voltage. It claims to allow you to swap the hall phasing between 60 and 120 degrees, so combined with the 6 possible ways to connect the halls and the 6 possible ways to connect the power cables I think all possibilities are covered. The drawback of the AMC drive you linked is that it only goes up to 80V. How much are they? -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Thanks gene, but I actually want to do the closed loop bldc/ac route for the learning experience. I guess I always have the stepper route if I manage to really much things up! --- On Sat, 4/23/11, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 8:25 AM On Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:13:32 AM Robert Pabon did opine: Yeah, the 80v is the only real downer for me as well but everything else looks good. The PWM command eliminates the need for a pwn to analog conversion card so that is good. cost wise I am waiting on a final answer but they are cheap. My budget is minimal and I am trying to do champagne on a soda budget. I am looking at about $70 per axis for those amps. Don't overlook the xylotex offerings for the small stuff. A kit of 4 ea 425oz motors and a 4 axis driver can probably be had for about $460, but check the site at http://www.xylotex.com/ to be sure. That supply is only 24 volt, which would have a max ipm a bit less than my 28 volt gives. I went slightly cheaper the last time I ordered as I had already cobbled up a 9 or 10 amp 28 volt supply from my junk box. And I also cobbled up the box for the drivers, so all I got was the 4 axis driver board and 4 ea 425 motors. This makes a good kit for smaller machines IMO. I also have a pmdx-106 running the spindle motor, and that works very well. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) http://tinyurl.com/ddg5bz http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html -- I have seen the FUN -- -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
I'm not sure I follow. What I was referring to was something like this amp: http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/sx25a20.pdf Which requires two sine waves with a 120 degree phase shift. The phase angle corresponds to motor angle and the amplitude corresponds to torque. My understanding of PWM is that it is a square wave and you are using the the width of that wave to for control. I am not sure how that relates to the sine wave or how I would get from the 5I22 into the AMC amp above. I would need some sort of signal converter to convert the PWM to a sine wave in order to get something useable or is that functionally possible? --- On Sat, 4/23/11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: robertpa...@corseusa.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 9:57 AM On 23 April 2011 16:14, Robert Pabon robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: If I choose an amp which requires a sinusoidal signal, I am not sure what to do since I haven't shopped for an available The only amp I know of which requires a sinusoidal input (or three PWMs) is the Mesa 7i39. However, the bldc component has three (or six) PWM amplitudes as one of the output options. Hall and Encoder input to 3xPWM output is one of the better-tested configurations, actually. -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
I already have the BLDC servos so I am headed down that path already ;) --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: From: Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 12:27 PM On 4/23/2011 2:52 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sat, 2011-04-23 at 07:49 -0700, Robert Pabon wrote: Yeah, the 80v is the only real downer for me as well but everything else looks good. The PWM command eliminates the need for a pwn to analog conversion card so that is good. cost wise I am waiting on a final answer but they are cheap. My budget is minimal and I am trying to do champagne on a soda budget. I am looking at about $70 per axis for those amps. Don't forget about brushed servos. They aren't as sexy as brushless, but should work just as well (mostly) and be cheaper. http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00013-1a.jpg http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/00047-1a.jpg Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with brushed servo drive except for the sex appeal (which I find lacking.. ;-) ) This is the Canadian company I was thinking about. http://www.dmm-tech.com/Pricing.html Dave -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
John, the motor is a brush-less DC fitted with a 2000ppr quadrature encoder with 120degree hall feedback. The commutation format is three channels, 4 cycles/360 electrical angle for eight poles. The motor is rated for up to a 300V DC bus which I would like to maximize to be able to use gear reduction and improve torque. Peak current draw is pretty low (4 amps at stall) so I don't need a huge amp. Unfortunately Gecko doesn't make anything in the brush-less variety. So I have been scouring ebay for amps and drives to try and find something that will fit my needs at a reasonable cost but I also want to keep the motion controller in mind when buying. Rob --- On Fri, 4/22/11, James Louis james.lo...@gastechnology.org wrote: From: James Louis james.lo...@gastechnology.org Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: robertpa...@corseusa.com robertpa...@corseusa.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 5:13 AM Rob, It seems that your choice of amplifier model is going to determine your choice of EMC2 supported controller. I recently completed building a CNC mill using an Intel D510MO and Jon's Pico Systems PPMC board set, which was used because my amplifiers required a +/- 10VDC analog velocity input and my servo motors had a quadrature encoder output. It is working great now, but it was not easy finding information regarding servo loops and tuning. In spite of this however I am happy with my controller choice, and Jon was very supportive throughout the build. You didn't say if your motors had encoders, but Gecko makes very reliable drives. They all have Step/Direction type command inputs. I recommend that you work backward from the sample configurations listed on the startup screen of your EMC2 installation. For closed loop systems your choices are fairly narrow, which actually makes it easier! Good Luck. Jim -Original Message- From: Robert Pabon @ Corse USA [mailto:robertpa...@corseusa.com] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 11:11 PM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Motion control cards Hello everyone! This is my first posting to the list so forgive any newbie faux paus (sp?). Anyway I have never used EMC and am looking at doing my first EMC build (lathe retrofit). My first build was an AjaxCNC kit so this is my first true build where I am sourcing all the parts and learning along the way. I am learning quite a bit, but there is a huge gap in knowledge before I am anywhere near where I need to be. A plan to use Brushless DC servos ad have begun trying to find suitable amps and all the rest of the necessary hardware to get the system up and running. So I am looking at motion control cards at the moment and need to get some information. The brushless DC motors added a layer of complexity that I hadn't had to deal with with my previous build since everything was brushed DC. So I have been doing a lot of reading on motors, commutation, amps and drivers and think that I am starting to sort things out a bit. But I don't know much about motion control cards. How generic are these things in terms of pairing them to servo amps? What about software, if I buy something like a galil card on ebay will I need driver software and is that available somewhere? I know that Pico makes a 4 axis board, but after a posting on the linux forum Jon made me a bit hesitant on using his board with these motors because he had some trouble in the past. I don't know if that is a motor problem, a amp problem or a motion controller problem but I'd hate to find out by buying all the components only to have it not work out. I have thought about the Mesa cards, but I honestly don't know what all I would need to buy or what I would need to configure one. I haven't really found a resource that outlines the process for using a mesa card in the applications. So what does the collective wisdom have to offer? What are my options in terms of motion control. Affordability is a high priority, but performance is also important. I am willing to put up with some learning curve, but I don't want to forge new ground completely since I don't have the skillset to support that. Thanks, Rob -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users This communication is for the use of the intended recipient only. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Thanks andy I sent out my motor feedback specs with another email and will try to keep the information brief so I don't become redundant. I was looking at the Mesa amps and it looks like only the 7I39 is a BLDC amp, the 8I20 appears to be AC (although granites VSD will run AC and BLDC, so maybe it can, I don't know). I am trying to keep this as dumb and generic as possible for a couple of reasons (parts sourcing and finding help) so I am trying to stick with what has been more or less proven. Rob --- On Fri, 4/22/11, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 6:08 AM On 22 April 2011 05:11, Robert Pabon @ Corse USA robertpa...@corseusa.com wrote: But I don't know much about motion control cards. How generic are these things in terms of pairing them to servo amps? If the servo amps take a +/- 10V signal then there are a number of ways to control them with EMC2. Be aware that not all amps work with all motors, though. There are a number of possible feedback systems, some rather proprietary. Even a simple three hall sensors system can be set up in a variety of ways. (There are 48 possible combinations, but only a few are actually used in practice). about software, if I buy something like a galil card on ebay will I need driver software and is that available somewhere? Much better to buy something from the supported hardware list. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware The EMC2 Way is to use dumb hardware and do the calculations and feedback in the PC. You could use step-direction servo drives as suggested earlier, but that rather goes against this, as you need to do the tuning in the drive (and often with a Windows-only special utility). Both the Pico and Mesa systems fit this paradigm, but so does any driver controlled in torque-mode by an analogue or PWM signal output by EMC2. If the motors have tachos and the drives are velocity mode, though, it is probably best to use them that way. I have thought about the Mesa cards, but I honestly don't know what all I would need to buy or what I would need to configure one. It depends on your motors' voltage and current requirements. Mesa do at least two drives for Brushless motors, the 7i39 and 8i20 (just Google them) There is an EMC2 software component that can take almost any form of motor feedback and convert it to almost any form of amplifier drive. It is a complicated subject. I started to write a Wiki page to try to clarify it all, but got distracted. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?BLDC -- atp Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Peter, what kind of documentation is available to a complete novice like myself and where would I go to find it? I honestly haven't done much more than plug boards into slots or upgrade memory, I'm not afraid to tackle it, but I don't like going in blind and I think that is what gives me the most apprehension about using the Mesa products. Mesa seems to have a solid reputation but it is a little more than plug and play so the learning curve appears much steeper from the outside and anything that lessens the grade will certainly pave the way for new guys like me. BTW, thanks everyone for your quick and insightful responses. The last 12 hours have provided a lot more information on EMC than the last several months of searching elsewhere! Rob --- On Fri, 4/22/11, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 11:11 AM On Fri, 22 Apr 2011, andy pugh wrote: Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 18:55:59 +0100 From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards On 22 April 2011 17:12, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: Are you aware of anyone using the 8i20 in an EMC2 system? Other than Andy We have some individual customers and OEMS starting to use the 8I20, but I would want to have permission from them to disclose who they are on a public forum. This is all fairly new and the smart serial FPGA firmware that supports the 8I20 is now in a state of flux (Not to say that its all fluxed up :-). Basically we are adding support to a gaggle of new smart serial I/O devices (Remote isolated I/O, Pendant interface, remote TTL I/O) and adding the ability to start and stop channels individually. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards
Man my head is starting to spin! No wonder people just go with steppers and call it a day. Maybe my vision is clouded by ignorance but it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to pick up a brushless DC motor, a suitable amp and make it work. Obviously it would be easier to just buy a sorted motor/driver, but then it would be easier to buy a sorted CNC machine as well. So getting back to the motor amp combination for a second someone have a look at hese for a minute and tell me what you think. This is the motor I am using: http://www.servodynamics.com/Drawing/23S-IE.pdf I am using the IG23CS-64-IE2000-S Servo dynamics recommends the 1224-BLS driver for this motor. The 1224BL is the comparable amp: http://www.servodynamics.com/Specs/1224bl_spec.pdf And here are the amps I was looking at using: http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/bd30a8.pdf Servo dynamics says I am fine driving with either sinusoidal or trapezoidal. The AMC is trapezoidal. Obviously need to add a filter card, but otherwise it looks to be in the ballpark. Opinions? --- On Fri, 4/22/11, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: From: Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion control cards To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 1:18 PM On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: I think part of the problem is if you just have bare brushless motors its not likely you will have a plug-and-play solution unless you have the matching drives, as most AC servo motors are produced to work with a specific driver, and running them with a generic controller _will_ involve some futzing about. If you want to avoid this, the best solution is to purchase a drive/motor combination. I agree. Most commercial drives will drive other manufacturers motors, but it's not an easy task. I have had some experience with integrating motors, and it's really difficult to avoid learning way too much about someone else's software, and you usually end up with an oscilloscope hooked up to your motor spinning it by hand. There are brushless servo drives that will take either step/dir or +/-10V. Getting those to work with EMC is daunting enough. If the project is well-funded, it's not too hard to go on ebay and buy a matching set of motors and drives. My only advice is to read the manuals first, I have a collection of oddball drives and motors in my stash from before I figured this out. Eric Keller -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Motion control cards
Hello everyone! This is my first posting to the list so forgive any newbie faux paus (sp?). Anyway I have never used EMC and am looking at doing my first EMC build (lathe retrofit). My first build was an AjaxCNC kit so this is my first true build where I am sourcing all the parts and learning along the way. I am learning quite a bit, but there is a huge gap in knowledge before I am anywhere near where I need to be. A plan to use Brushless DC servos ad have begun trying to find suitable amps and all the rest of the necessary hardware to get the system up and running. So I am looking at motion control cards at the moment and need to get some information. The brushless DC motors added a layer of complexity that I hadn't had to deal with with my previous build since everything was brushed DC. So I have been doing a lot of reading on motors, commutation, amps and drivers and think that I am starting to sort things out a bit. But I don't know much about motion control cards. How generic are these things in terms of pairing them to servo amps? What about software, if I buy something like a galil card on ebay will I need driver software and is that available somewhere? I know that Pico makes a 4 axis board, but after a posting on the linux forum Jon made me a bit hesitant on using his board with these motors because he had some trouble in the past. I don't know if that is a motor problem, a amp problem or a motion controller problem but I'd hate to find out by buying all the components only to have it not work out. I have thought about the Mesa cards, but I honestly don't know what all I would need to buy or what I would need to configure one. I haven't really found a resource that outlines the process for using a mesa card in the applications. So what does the collective wisdom have to offer? What are my options in terms of motion control. Affordability is a high priority, but performance is also important. I am willing to put up with some learning curve, but I don't want to forge new ground completely since I don't have the skillset to support that. Thanks, Rob -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
